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the latest developments on the safe banking act tyler berlin from hyper joins us to explain more on the dale's report all right we are joined with tyler berlin chief revenue officer for hyper how are you sir i'm great how are you so let's get into the business okay so you know i want to talk to you obviously today we've heard a lot of challenges right now with u.s banks and preferences when it comes to obviously uh dealing with the cannabis industry and the first thing we'll talk about is hyper you're a company that provides payment and technology for high-risk markets so in this case cannabis so i guess my first question is is who is hyper yeah hyper is a technology provider that was built by bankers for bankers to solve their challenges when trying to serve any highly regulated industry so i think what people fail to realize is there are industries that are perfectly legal outside of cannabis that dwarf cannabis from a volume perspective that essentially have had many of the same banking issues as cannabis so when we launched to the market you know six and a half years ago we started getting calls from banksy credit unions saying hey we would like to explore your technology to bank the state legal cannabis industry and so head first you know we we dove into this issue um and fast forward six and a half years uh over half of the banks and credit unions in the us that openly bank this industry to scale use us on the reg tech side um and then that has led to our payment products finally being able to launch nationwide about a year ago so we understood that from a payment perspective this is a banking problem not a payments problem and if you couldn't solve the banking side of it the payment mechanism would never work and so that's why you've seen every iteration of a payment product come out launched to the market die or get shut down uh and those those uh those things that put the industry at risk far too often so we've done it right it's been a huge heavy lift yeah in a beautiful process but um we've had a lot of success so walk me through you know obviously this industry is evolving rapidly how does it work uh from a hyper perspective yeah well think about it from uh from a foundational perspective we're there to eliminate blind spots create efficiencies and enable banks and credit unions to provide a level of transparency to their regulatory bodies that they may not have ever had in another industry right so right so the answer to this problem is ultimate transparency right and so that's our foundation on the payment side the cannabis industry cannot use credit debit any branded card products right so we've come up with a very unique product that allows for a consumer to conduct a digital transaction in a very seamless way the mechanism for that is a direct bank to bank transfer so anytime a consumer walks in and uses hyper to pay at a dispensary we initial or our bank clients initiate a transfer between the consumer's bank account directly into the merchants how does your business model evolve let's say for example you guys have a big u.s election coming up and let's say you know there's been a lot of talk about you know i don't even want to get into who's going to win the election but at the end of the day a lot of people are hopeful that this industry continues to mature and you'll start to see a lot of the big us players uplifted on the u.s stock exchanges so with that and i learned this that a lot of the banks it isn't necessarily illegal it's more based on a preference so if these companies are then upload i could be wrong to say that but and you'll probably have more insight on that but in the event you know let's say it gets legalized federally from a medicinal standpoint and a lot of the banks start to come in and start financing a lot of these companies how does your business evolve from that yeah so so great question and it look there's two there's two things here one is the safe act the second one is potential federal legality and again going back to highly regulated industries this will always be a highly regulated industry so for any bank or credit union to try and serve the market they're going to have to build out a robust dedicated program to do so you're not going to see the chases in the walls fargos of the world enter these markets and we know that because if you look at money service businesses check cashers payday lenders cross-border amendments all of those industries have significant challenges getting banking access despite being legal because the compliance burden on any bank or credit union to try and serve those markets is massive right those things will help us in the long run they will help more institutions serve that but again more institutions are going to need help to do so with the safe act one of the biggest misnomers about that piece of legislation is that if the safe act passes banking is going to open up to the world and the branded card networks are going to come in and people can use credit cards i've actually seen merchants send out communication to their member base saying hey support the safe act so we can use credit cards that's not the case really brand networks are not going to enter this space until federal legality period really facts has not changed federal legality so that's one of the the things that i think the industry needs to understand um this this is this is always going to be somewhat of a heavy lift on the financial services side yeah for sure interesting uh feedback because that was my understanding with the safe banking act is that the banks would allow a lot of this stuff to come in and finance but you know from a federal standpoint as you would probably know no one really understands as to how that's all going to break down and unfold in the u.s um you know would be great obviously if you could see that within the next six months after an election but what are you hearing on your end with regards to you know this moving on a federal level are you hearing anything that maybe the average investor may not be aware of you know i think i i think on the federal level obviously i think it's going to be a big uh i think it's going to be a big issue on both sides yeah i think you're going to see the conservative side of the fence get behind it in more of a state regulated market i think you may see the the democratic side get behind on just a full legalization perspective but i think either way it's still going to be control controlled state by state so even if it's when federally legal tomorrow you're still going to have a license structure within each state market that's going to dictate how the industry runs let's talk a little bit about your space as well who are your competitors and how do you differentiate yourself we've had a number of competitor competitors come out on the payment side but again because we built the foundation we have at the end of the day you know i don't see it as boastfully this is a this is kudos to an amazing team that we have here we don't have anything that that rivals us from a from that perspective right because we're a completely unique animal um on the payment side we've seen again every iteration of a payment product come out uh they all eventually typically fail uh because they don't understand the problem right and they didn't lay that foundation so what are some of those problems they don't you don't think they they i guess plan for that you hear a lot of yeah correct um unfortunately in too many instances those that lack of understanding puts the industry at risk and we've seen that through you know endless litigation companies going down owing merchants millions of dollars uh there's a case uh with the department of justice right now for fraud so a delivery provider um wanted to offer credit cards to the member base the only way to do that is by defrauding a bank or credit union and lying to them about the nature of the business uh the department of justice just got involved and it's it's a mess so we've really tried to educate the industry uh on on not only payment methodologies and why certain things just aren't going to work and they're going to put them at risk we've tried to prove that through what we've done in the industry so for us now it's a matter of taking market share continuing to innovate to make that entire process frictionless whether it be through integration or like for covid we launched the contactless version of hyperpay yeah so if a consumer walks into a dispensary or they get delivery they can pay digitally and never have to touch a device other than their own you know you guys have been around for six years um this industry changes so rapidly on a month-to-month basis um how do you keep up with the pace of like with things changing so rapidly all the time well we we're really fortunate um and we're fortunate because we see everything from the financial services side out and those relationships over the years have run deep so typically uh you know we see data sets we have information on what's coming months and months ahead of time and to your point you know we always joke that this industry runs in dog years because things do move so quickly so we've been very fortunate to be able to use those data sets to uh inform our decision decision-making process and stay ahead of the game last year you quoted as saying most digital payments in the cannabis space will use your technology by the end of the year saying that let's fast forward to today how close are we to that and what does that hold for the future for hyper again i think covet is you know sped up that process um pretty dramatically so for us again um look we understand that the brand of card networks are coming at some point we've built our technology and our network to accommodate that when it comes so for us it's continuing to take market share um continuing to show the industry that there is a sustainable compliant method of digital transaction um and really to show the industry that by taking a short-sighted approach not only do you risk you know the you know the lawsuits the legal repercussions all of those things but from a consumer perspective i think what the industry is realizing is the the true consumer long term is the fringe consumer that is used to buying on amazon they're used to you know ordering at home and having it show up at the door and if you have a payment method that continues to fail or it gets shut down every three months you're losing that consumer base for sure you are yeah so you've got to rethink you know that entire process and you've got to provide a sustainable long-term option and wear it so where do you see yourself i know it's tough to say we say dog years where things are moving so rapidly but what's your plan you're set out as as things start to materialize more and more in the u.s which is let's face it the biggest market worldwide especially in the cannabis industry um where do you see yourself say in 12 months yeah i think you know for us we're we're conquering the cannabis space i mean that takes time that it's an extremely heavy lift as as you know um and so we're hoping that middle to end of year will be on the majority of counters in this space um you know throw integration partners the the correct retailers things of that nature and then you know we have aspirations to move into other high-risk industries that need us yeah you look at sports betting yeah sports betting you know gambling is talking you know um casinos are talking about going cashless they're not going to be able to use credit cards um there are a myriad of other industries that need our help and candidly you know our methodology was look if we can conquer the most polarizing first that's an easy transition for us and everything else and so i think we're we're finally getting to that point as a company where those things are on the radar you know we're we're evaluating each opportunity and we're going to attack some of those by the end of the year sounds exciting times are changing new generations creating new ideas right yeah absolutely it's exciting all the best appreciate you taking the time and let's keep in touch you