Sign Virginia Assignment of Partnership Interest Online

Document type sign assignment of partnership interest virginia online

hello and thank you for joining Fairfax County Department of Cable and Consumer Services as we celebrate National Consumer Protection week my name is Michelle Thompson and I'm a consumer specialist with the Fairfax County Consumer Affairs branch and as the homeowner and condominium association liaison I'm excited to bring to you this workshop where we're going to talk about Virginia resale certificates and Association disclosure packets truly this process is definitely meant for the consumer so for those who are involved with developing the packets and producing them to the seller and then for the purchaser who actually gets the packet we're going to talk about what's involved in that process and all of the detail that you get in that big packet at the closing joining me today is Amy th Kessler she is an attorney with Siegen Mason and Mason and has worked along with me on other educational programs and I'm really excited to have her here today today we're streaming live on Facebook so we're excited that you're joining us there we have a lot of information to share and we will get to most of your questions I believe in the presentation however if you have questions please post them in the comment section of the facebook on the fairfax county consumer affairs branch facebook page also for our viewing audience who are watching it on home during the replay please go ahead and feel free to contact me with any follow-up questions and thank you today for those who are in attendance today we want you to be able to walk away with a few learning objectives first of all we want you to understand what the association's reporting requirements are with the common interest community board we want you to understand the laws that govern the resale packets one of my greatest things to say is always go to the source and even though we provide you with handouts and references to a current law whenever you are actively using it or reviewing it or preparing the packets always go to the source to get the most recent Meishan informs we're going to talk about the elements that must be included in the resale disclosure packets you'll see they're about 18 to 19 different items that should be a part of that packet and we'll talk about some of the pitfalls that individual associations can look out for us they're preparing them and then finally we'll talk about the methods of delivery for the packages and when you can charge fees and what those fees are so first and foremost if your are a mandatory common interest community a condominium association or our homeowners association in the law we call that the property owners association you are required to registered with the Virginia common interest community board on the left-hand side of your packet is information that for the different forms that you've had if you have never registered with the board the first form on the left hand side is the actual registration application once you register you're assigned a number that identifies you in your community during the annual period if there are any changes to what goes on in your community for instance maybe you have a change in the point of contact if you're a self-managed community and perhaps maybe you hire a community manager your point of contact will probably change there's a form that you'll need to complete and you'll send that in as an update also if there's a board elections between the time that you register and your renewal period you'll want to also submit the third form that's in your packet an update of the names of the board members and their titles and addresses go to the source on the combinations community page you'll see at the bottom the association's the most commonly requested forms the registration application your hand you will renewal report and your governing board changes and any changes in the point of contact okay so today homework is to make sure that you are properly registered well Michelle how do I do that well let's look so dpor stands for the Department of professional and occupational regulation and they have various wards for different types of professions so for instance a lot of Realtors will call me because they're looking for your contact information to request that resale certificate or the Association disclosure packet and so I'll send them to this board they're familiar with it because that's where their licensing information is under the real estate board you can actually looked up your Association name if you know your number you can put in your license number although we reference it as a registration number here and then if you select the different boards it'll make your search go a lot quicker if you select the common interest community board so when you go home this evening your homework is to go in there type in your name of your associations select the common interest community board and look at your registration status what will return as the search result is the name of your association via address that's on file of where to contact you so if you have a community manager it may be the Community Managers address but that's the formal information that will be available to you it will also show you your original registration number and your current expiration date the reason that point of contact is important is because the renewal notice will be sent to that contact so a tip to remember is for some of our self-managed associations is to remember that you don't want to necessarily have it go to one individual's address because what if that person moves if you have a central address for the Association itself then all these types of registration forms can come directly to whoever is in charge at the time and then you won't lose your status by registering late or renewing Lea and then we're going to be speaking more about the resale disclosure certificates and Association disclosure packets again another reason to go to the source historically we track what's going on with the changes in the state law and every year it appears that we always have some little tweak with some of the information that's related to these resale disclosures so you do always want to go to the source in each of these laws for each of the different types of common interest communities you will see detailed outline information on how to prepare the packets what needs to be included what the cancellation process is required how to deliver things that we're going to do a highlight today but I give you these links so that you can do what go to the source right okay so as you get the packet we know that the home purchasing process is a very emotional and by the time we get to these documents we've already emotionally bought into the home we've redecorated every room with all of our personal belongings so this piece is so important but many people overlook what's in it so just let the buyer beware this is specifically a consumer disclosure it's going to tell you what you are responsible as an owner so we have different people tuning in we have buyers we have sellers we have real estate agents realtors we have volunteer board leaders community managers but for the buyer this is very important information and so the purpose of the assessments if you've never if you're a first time home buyer you may not know that you have to pay this additional fee you think you're just paying the mortgage but you have this common area you're responsible for and you're contributing to the maintenance of the services you're actually contributing to a reserve account for future long-term capital projects that need to be completed and all the other costs and expenses that are established in your individual community so every community will have a different set of documents and some things that are different and they change so the also will get information about what are the consequences of the failure to pay you just want to know that because of your largest financial purchases that you're making and you want to know all of the costs you have to account for the declaration and governing documents are like another layer of documents that control the individual community as a whole it gives the rules and regulations the bylaws what the officers of the community are required to do as they lead the community and then one of the most specific issues are the architectural standards and guidelines so when we purchase a home we think our home is our castle and we can do anything we want with it it's very important that we're reviewing what restrictions we have within this community some communities may have a specific color requirement for a particular shutter or door color or a certain type of window they can get very specific so you really want to take the time to review them as soon as you receive these packets and then you have more information to determine whether or not this is a community you want to agree to commit to these standards and guidelines and again you'll hear information about what are the consequences for failing to comply with these governing documents specifically these architectural guidelines let the buyer beware you may want to come into this new home that you had and you may want to be able to rent it out for additional income there may be some restrictions in those documents that limit how you can use your property whether or not you can rent the lot or your unit if you have a boat where are you going to be able to park your boat on your driveway or there's some restrictions on what you can park on your driveway or in your yard this information is very detailed again sometimes during the process it may get to a couple days before a settlement but it's still worthy of reviewing and what's happened before you the actual purchaser receives is that the volunteer board leaders have taken the time to compile all of this information so that the consumer can make an educated decision and make a more informative decision about the finances related to purchasing particular community if you're purchasing in a brand new community it may still be under what we call developer control and that's when the actual developer is in the process of building the homes and selling the homes and they have a certain amount of time that they're going to be in charge before they transition over to own owner leadership so that is information you want to understand so how long would that process be going on and then when do we as owners transition into leading the community and taking over those responsibilities and then finally the important notice of purchasers this document the documents that you receive are part of your legal contract with the community you as the owner are purchasing and you're agreeing to these legal requirements and you may have the right to cancel if you review it in time in a detail you'll have to review what's available and look at your purchase contract but we'll talk a little bit more about the requirements for doing that the document is trying to give you as much information as possible about what it means to purchase in a homeowner's association community and what my responsibilities are so some tips for owned for owners and for the volunteer board members who may be developing the package some communities have made it that they will take on introducing themselves to the Realtors who are posting for sale signs right the process involves a lot of different players so that if you know that the process that a home is up for sale you may contact that realtor contact the owner the owner should be reaching out probably to you for the request for those packets but there's timeliness involved when do you get paid for payments for completing the packet if that's applicable to you building those relationships helps everyone stay on the timeline and to respond as quickly as possible to the requests and as comprehensively as possible to get the information that everyone's needs but keeping in mind as a purchaser each of us is responsible for examining information contained in you may find the new person moves into the community and it's a good thing to welcome into the community and just to double check did you receive your resell disclosure packet because they're still going to be held accountable once they are owners and then here's another way that you're just making sure that they have the information that they need to be a contributing member to your community okay so this time I'm going to pass it over to Amy and she's going to talk about some of the pitfalls she's seen after working with different communities as they're developing their packets do you have any questions about the first section that we just reviewed yes yes so once you register with the common interest community board the Association is required to register annually so the first document was if you have never registered you'll complete that form and submit it to the common interest community board each year you will probably receive a follow-up notice to remind you to renew and then that's the form you will complete to renew your registration status any other questions okay great Amy I'll pass it to you alright so what we've had listed here is pretty much everything you're gonna have to include in that packet in short condensed form and I just wanted to hit on a couple things that may or may not have occurred to you or occurred to a purchaser as being a problem the first one seems really obvious Association name and a registered agent right that seems pretty straightforward except I can think of off the top of my head for different associations in Virginia with the name of cedar lakes so there are several such things like that that happened where common interest communities have similar names in different parts of the state so the Pine Crest community in Virginia Beach is different from the Pine Crest community in Richmond is differ from the Pine Crest community in Northern Virginia except when you look them up how are you supposed to distinguish right so it's really important that you always have your exact name as listed as your name in these DPO tpo are documents now if you're incorporated which most large associations are your exact name will be what you're incorporated at the State Corporation Commission as and you can look that up in a similar way as looking at the dpor licensing on the State Corporation Commission website it's a very similar process and in that situation you can put in cedar lakes and it'll pull up all of them so you don't have to know going in which one it is the other thing you see sometimes is what the developer called the Association and formally named it is not what you use as a community so the way in it says camelot community so you all call it camelot but it's actually King Arthur's Court Community Association so again you're gonna need to know that official name because that's what you're gonna be registered on during all these things as to the Declaration bylaws articles and architectural guidelines those are all things you're gonna have to include in this pact and a copy of all those that can be difficult because some of these documents can be really old and the copies are really bad you can always go to land records in your community and get a new copy to make them fresh if you need to just for your own information in HOAs the declaration is the only thing that's recorded so you're not going to be able to get the bylaws or the rules and regulations or anything like that from the land records the Articles of Incorporation would be with the State Corporation Commission if you need those whereas in a condo both the Declaration and the bylaws are recorded so again if you need a copy of that you can go to land records but if nobody has a copy of the bylaws and an HOA you may have to go back to some original owners try to recreate some of that stuff and then I would assume that most people would know if they're in a sub association or a master Association but the number of people who do not is phenomenal so you have something like well-rested as your best example arrest in association is pretty much all of Breaston and there are bazillion sub associations but usually what I tell people is if you're in a condominium or a townhouse that's who you're gonna see in a sub associati n because you'll have a master association that covers the entire community and then the sub for the condos and the townhouses and they'll have to have their own resale packets it's the CI CB form which is called the cover sheet that's just that's the form that you pull off the website that Michele gave you earlier and it lists all the things you need to include and again the filing certificate it certification and license number are things you have to include in the resale package you also have to have an official Association complaint procedure this was a change of the law maybe 2012-13 that requires the Association to adopt a formal complaint procedure for complaints that would go to the Community Interest common interest community Ombudsman so there's a kind of basic layout for that in the statute and but you have to adopt that so if somebody has a complaint they have a procedure they can follow and this only addresses legal issues so for example if somebody says you're not having open meetings as a board that would be a legal issue that's required legally if somebody says I want art-deco windows and you're only requiring colonial windows well that's individual to the Association and that's not gonna be something beyond let's make it review Michelle went over the assessments are required to be included but also any mandatory fees some associations are also part of recreation Association so there's an additional fee that's a current required that may or may not be an assessment but is required so those are all gonna have to be laid out in the disclosure package as well as any special assessments and the post closing fee that's charged by management is laid out here and I'll go into that a little bit more in the fees but you have to disclose that because this is going to be going to the purchaser so the purchaser needs to know any fees that would be their individual responsibility you also have to reveal the status of the sellers account is it delinquent are there violations and you actually have more detailed information about that coming up the association has to give it's reserved study the reserve study is required to be done every five years and it outlines what needs to be done in the Association capital improvements that sort of thing it's actually a really good thing for associations to do but it's something you want to give to purchasers so they can say well maybe there's not a special assessment this year but in two years were scheduled to repave the entire community also the current budget income and expense statement the balance do want any outstanding loan which usually is gonna relate back to a special assessment because if you're borrowing $50,000 to replace your elevators you're probably gonna especially assess that to all your owners so that'll be kind of interrelated and then insurance coverage your fidelity bond your individual insurance requirements for owners you usually don't see individual insurance requirements unless it's a condominium it's called an H o 6 policy and that would be in your recorded declaration and bylaws but you want to know about insurance coverage is there coverage for liability if somebody slips and falls on the common elements you know is their coverage a fidelity bond if there's fraud or their steps from the community the you're required to disclose any lawsuits that are pending by the association or against the association this has generally been viewed as not your average collection matter right so if you have somebody who's delinquent and you're suing them and General District Court that's not what they're talking about they're talking about stuff that would materially impact the Association whether or not you have that $500 may matter to your budget I'm not suggesting it does it but the whole Association isn't going to go belly-up because you don't get that $500 whereas if you're being sued for a massive slip involved during a snow removal situation that's a hundred million thousand dollars that may so that's gonna be something you're going to have to disclose you also have to disclose any violations on the lot of the unit where this becomes a problem is as many associations and you see this with both professionally managed and self-managed look at the front and walk away so they look at the front and they say everything's fine and walk and then they find the fences incorrect in the back it's not on the property line there's a shed that's unapproved there's a deck that's not approved you need to look at the whole thing and that doesn't in an HOA that doesn't require massive like entrance but you do need to walk around the back of the property look in a condo you're required to inspect inside the condominium unit because people could have changed the the walls the sides made it a three-bedroom and service that two-bedroom so that is required and the consequences are if you don't disclose this stuff and somebody buys that purchaser now has a three-bedroom condo unit that purchaser now has a fence that's partially on common area because you've got to let them know or you basically take subject to the way it is when you buy it then the side restrictions flag display restrictions and solar energy collection device restrictions are all things that are kind of partially governed by federal law partially but partially governed by state law mostly the short version and again as Michelle said check your source documents right but the short answer is you can't ban these things entirely as a general rule but you can control them so you can't ban the display of say an American flag but it can't be blocking the line of sight when people turn the corner it can't be you know so large that it blocks your neighbors windows there there are limits you can place on it but you can't ban it entirely and that's gonna be community specific and that's gonna be something that the community needs to have regulations about also you have to include Board minutes and annual meeting minutes for the past six months this practically acts to have you never include annual meeting minutes because your annual meeting your minutes don't get adopted till the next year so they're never going to be six months old they're only gonna ever be a year old but that's what they have you including and it's what's been adopted not what's pending so you could have had a meeting last night you don't have to include those minutes it's the last six months of adopted minutes and then as we talked about violations you have to include the actual notices you sent to any to the current owner so you're not only inspecting for current violations something that's happened recently but you're also sending them copies of the actual notices that went to the current owner about this you're also going to disclose if you have FHA or VA approval for loans that's only with a condo FHA and VA improve approved loans separately for individual homes but for condos it's the project is approved and the failure to provide this resale package timely and I understand timely is an issue with the self-managed Association professional association managers have whole departments that turn these things out right but the individual the self-managed the twelve unit townhouse in Alexandria you know it's every Saturday the board president sits down and does this but the consequences of not doing it timely is there could be a penalty from the CSE be and you can also be prevented from collecting anything that was delinquent and you can be prevented from requiring violations to be brought into compliance so these are things to consider I mean as much of a pain in the butt this thing could be to put together it really is very important both from the purchasers perspective and the associations so you say I'm doing all this work what do I get for it right the way this works and the numbers you have up here are the numbers when the law was passed every year there is a Consumer Price Index increase and in the materials Michelle provided it has what the current numbers are and I think the CSE B updates those on a regular basis I've tried to do it myself with a calculator and let's just not do that ever but basically these are the this is the outline of the fees right so you have a fee for the inspection you have a fee for actually producing the resale packet or the certificate in paper or electronic and you can't charge both you can't if they say what happens is the seller comes to you and says I'm buying my house I'm selling my house and I need a disclosure package by Friday and it's a Monday well I believe they have off to look when we get further on but you have a certain amount of time to produce it and if it's a rush you have an extra fee for that and then you go out and do all this stuff and when the seller says produce the packet they say my realtor is going to pick it up and I want it in paper or just email it to Steve at this address so depending on what they pick that's what you charge they can't get both so if they want paper they get paper if they want electronic they get electronic they don't get both and then these fees that are specific to self-managed associations if the self-managed Association can provide an electronic copy they instantly kick in to the other fees the management fees so it's it you get more money for what you've done if you provide and if you're capable of providing an electronic copy of the retail package so it's to encourage that electronic copy and then you have these rush fees so if you want it within five days you could charge an additional fee if you want it delivered by hand or by overnight mail like FedEx you can charge that fee this post closing fee that we mentioned earlier that you have to just in the package that's a charging fee and then the $50 update now I didn't talk about the update information because there's like a paragraph this long and the statute about it like if you've done it but it's been 12 months but nothing's really changed but it's kind of changed so basically an update can't just be the next week they say actually I find a new buyer and I want to do this nothing's really materially changed the more time that passes that's when you can provide that update because then you're actually changing the backend right you need a different six months of minutes you need a different violation notice you need a different budget or different income and expense statement but what's really important is the fees are collected at settlement so they don't stroke you a check right there when they pick them up they're collected at settlement on the settlement sheet that's great you say but what if I don't ever get my check right it becomes an assessment on the owners account whose owner let me do it so I'm selling my house I request my package I don't pay you I never go to settlement I decide not to put my house on the market or I take it off the market that becomes something to I owe because I'm still the owner of the house it's an assessment on my account collectible as an assessment you can lean it you can sue for it do all that fun stuff that I do freely if I sell the house and it was never paid now the new buyer owes it and it's on an assessment on their account and they have to pay even though initially they weren't responsible for it it's so it kind of travels with the property if you don't get paid now that purchaser very well could go back to the seller and say you never paid for this at closing and or go back to the closing company that's not your problem your relationship as with everything is with that property and with that land and with the current owner so they can go back to whomever they want but it's on their account and that gives you a meaning of collecting what you have not yet been paid but have done the work for and like I mentioned the fees adjust every five years by CPI so those adjustments are plugged in on the CSC B website and you have to be registered in order to collect the fees so this is kind of like you have to provide it electronically or if you get the good fees you have to be registered with the CIC B in order to collect the fees that's just another way of trying to get you to register alright so then you have the right to cancel so when can a buyer cancel I'm the seller I provide the resale package I hand it to the buyer or the potential buyer when he signs the contract he has three days to say yes no maybe so if it's mailed you get six days and the only remedy you have if you don't like anything in the package or something in the package is canceling the contract if you go to settlement and never cancel the contract it's over you can't go back and complain you've taken subject to that declaration my laws rules and regulations so you'll a lot of times see people who don't have resale packages for a number of reasons unless their reason is the Association was unable to provide one then they're bound and you get whatever you get under the contract that is the declaration and you can see they can cancel by mail email overnight delivery and hand delivery and depending on how they choose to cancel there's a time line in there which makes sense an email it's probably pretty instant whereas if you're gonna hand-deliver probably pretty instant mail there's probably three days they'll all loves to add three days whenever email anything it's just what they do okay great yes missus okay great thank you so much Amy that was a quick overview we've had a question about accessing some of the documents that are available for the presentation we are going to make that available on our consumer affairs branch website and then we'll have the information available for replay on channel 16 and then the Facebook live will replay as well I had a question for you Amy you said that if someone doesn't get the resell packet that they could report that to the common interest Community Board is that how is that process is that do they have to go through the Ombudsman complaint procedure or can they go directly no they wouldn't have to go through the on the complaint procedure because I don't think they have any way of knowing what it is or have a copy of that resolution if they've never received a resale package okay all right so they'll go directly to the Congress community board let them know that that's a concern now did anyone have any additional questions or what brought you out too damn curious to hear we can have a conversation the penalty you cannot collect delinquent assessments or require violations to be brought into compliance I think you're you can't go backwards so if you don't provide the let's say they ask for it and the sale is you know April 1st and you don't provide it until April 1st obviously that's not timely because you don't have the three days to cancel because you're getting it the day of sale and assuming the person complains this is an automatic but if the person complains then I don't think you could collect any assessments or deal with any violations as of they're backwards if the new owner then becomes delinquent or the new owner you know builds a deck at the front of their house which is a violation with your documents you could go after that but I think they're talking about you can't really remedy the prior which would normally carry over or be taken care of that prior to sale because you didn't provide the resell pocket in the timely manner the realtors in Northern Virginia provide a forum to request a disclosure packet what is the legal status of that form are they required to provide it or could they just call you up and say hey Steve send me a disclosure packet I think that's dependent on who you're requesting it from I'm pretty sure the Realtors did for convenience I mean but every I know every professionally managed company has their own form first service service first kpa they all have their own forms that you fill out rather online or in paper so I think that's just a convenient step for the realtors which isn't a bad idea but that's not requirement on this end that's or that's what they're doing on their end so they could I mean it's whatever you expect there is a quirk in the law that quirk there is that's what I thought there's a specific language in the law that says you have to have a written req est for a reso package it's only in one statute not the whole thing so it's a little weird but I would recommend written requests because then nobody can come back on you and say I never asked for this and the written request can be an email but I we in this instance we had someone who the seller asked for a resale package in the office said to the manager I need a retail package flat for nobody paid for it and the purchasers saying I'm not paying for it because there was never a written request I think the written request is a good idea also because of date/time stamps it for you and you know what your timeline is and you can have documentation of that as well I know that I receive a lot of calls from different Realtors trying to locate different communities and sometimes as some of our smaller communities they may not have an active board or an active person so if you have some type of website this is like almost like general information how to contact you to make this request that will be a great effort to those reaching out for you reaching out to you for that information I'm the fellow in our HOA documents and I'm quit kept quite busy actually we've been really successful in preparing a two-part document and what we have is if you go through the list of the requirements a lot of this stuff is stuff that never changes the declarations of articles on corporation once a year you update the budget once a year you update the income expenses and whatnot and so we have that in a giant 45 page PDF document which is on the webpage you can just go there and get it and the other individual property are you in violation yada yada yada that goes out in a separate email that goes out and the the real estate agents the settlement agents have been very pleased with that approach towards it I recommend it to anybody I know 33 years ago when I bought into this community I got this stack of papers this thick of copies of copies of copies of copies of copies and and it was and when I when I prepared this I was going through the original documents from the courthouse and scanning them into the electronic format so we could go this way and I was intriguing by how many typos there for the declarations but you got to keep them in there because that's what that's the way they are and I would say that some communities especially the older ones like to retype the documents like the declarations 300 years old and there's a smear here and you can't really read it so they retype it into a clearer clearer format as a lawyer please don't because if you make any mistake and it's not matching that's gonna fall on you and if you have the original even if nobody can read what that word is then nobody can read what that word is I'm we're all on the same page as opposed to guessing or remembering or when I bought in 76 this is what it said or this is well developer recommended it's just better to go with the source talk even if it's a problem I appreciate you sharing your best practice that's a great time for us to get together and saying what's working well in another community Amy I had a call one time and I was curious about this the individual seller had made a request for the package and I don't know it seemed like it went directly to the purchaser but the seller was unaware of the content that's so that's the seller get a copy as long with what goes directly to the it's who they request to have a copy when the celebrated make a request send me a copy so I can see what's in it right and I'm not going to get blindsided about what my purchaser is going to or they can say send it directly to the purchaser or send it to my realtor me it's up to them and like we talked about you get a certain number of copies obviously it's electronic and pretty much send it anywhere you want right and that's the easy way but yes I mean the flip side of that is and this is the lawyer and me coming out to is it's your property wouldn't you know like you said what's what is there that you don't know that's in there the only thing I could think is any sort of violation that you haven't gotten a notice for yet because that was the issue in this case yes yeah yeah to acquire that the check for the fee is one hand that they have to check before they sent up the disclosure packet no the fees are to be collected at settlement there is an exception to that in the law and I don't remember what it is exactly off the top of my head but it has to do with I believe it's with updates you can request the payment for the update right then and there but the whole point is it's supposed to you're not supposed to have to kind of check right there it's supposed to be able to come out of the settlement fees and that's why you have that remedy of being able to put it on the account if it's not paid later speaking of fees they're kind of a pain so we don't charge any you go to the webpage at download a 45 page document that doesn't take anything and then the preparation of the the individual items that are applicable to the property it's probably takes us you know 30 minutes or something like that and zip it out it's just not worth checking you're collecting money for that we have dudes for well you don't have to charge all those fees that's the other side and that's actually a good point just because there's a list of all the different fees you can charge you don't have to charge them all so maybe you don't charge anything unless they want it in five days and then you charge the $50 expedite fee because maybe it doesn't cause you any problems if you've got it all set up like this gentleman's talking about and all you have to do is you know take a walk around Lola's house and see what's there and you know throw in the latest minutes then it's not a problem but there are other communities that feel very burdened by producing these things and feel like they've really spent especially self-managed communities because there's no manager over here to do it you're doing it on your own time when your kids at soccer so they really want the fees and I think one of the recent changes to the law was to make it so self-managed associations could charge the same fees as professionally managed associations and I thought that was brilliant because I frankly think that professionally managed associations are probably spending less time and effort on it they have managed once yes yes also I think inspection almost always falls on the board so with your inspections that you're doing as you're preparing have you done disclosure packet recently within the past six months recently this group so when you're doing your inspections the community owner will have gone through an annual inspection then this is an additional inspection to find out what's currently going on to make sure they're in compliance are you finding any concerns with that process on your end and then making the appointments to go in inside the condos I'd say is probably the biggest sticking point okay particularly when you make an appointment and then they don't show up that mean that would be my only question is is there any ability to have them pay for someone to have to go out to the property a second time a third time a fourth time to hook up with thee it's not set up like that now it's just a fee for the inspection a lot depends on your own document some documents provide that you can change the locks and go in if you need to go in and this is a statutory requirement so you could theoretically do that I don't think most communities would want to do that I don't know but I think there's got to be a way to accept that from the resale package again there's nothing statutorily providing that but it seems to me if you're being prevented from doing what you need to do by the seller there's going to be some sort of exception for that as opposed to you just didn't you know I mean the one I had the difficulty I have is a community that didn't look at the backyard and it turns out the fence was like 20 feet into the common area and they're like we don't know when that happened we approved the fence 20 years ago well sometimes in the last 20 years your friends got moved and now it's gonna stay there but that's something that they could easily have walked around the community to see whereas inside a unit you don't know and I would say you probably take subject to the violation if there's a violation in there but we we put a statement when we have not been able to get in touch with them and the due date has coming on we issued the inspection form saying that we were unable to gain access for inspection therefore the buyer accepts responsibility for any violations that may exist which gets us a phone call to get out there right with you and inspect home so that works pretty well and that's exactly right and I think what's the frustration is not only in the fact that you've to go out more than once but is also that you're selling your house like you want to do this why are you standing in my way like I'm just trying to do what I have to do to make it so that you can sell your house so that that could be frustrating but hopefully it doesn't happen too often anymore final questions well thank you very much for joining us today here at the Government Center also for streamlining with us it on Facebook live and then if you have any questions or follow-up concerns please feel free to contact me my quickest email is y cyc at fairfax county govt and I do my recurring bimonthly television program our next program will be your community your connected association meetings and it will air live on Fairfax County government channel 16 on next Tuesday March 12th from 7 to 8 p.m. so you have some information about that again the information will be made available on the fairfax county consumer affairs branch website and thank you again for joining us in celebrating National Consumer Protection week thank you [Applause] you