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hi everyone welcome to our webinar today this webinar is a presentation of clean energy groups resilient power project and the Northeast electrochemical energy storage cluster also known as nice and our topic for this webinar is hydrogen and fuel cells for resiliency financing energy resiliency and we have two guest speakers with us from the New York Green Bank and the Connecticut Green Bank and before I pass this over to our host for this webinar Todd Olinsky Paul I would like to go over just a few quick housekeeping notes all of our participants today are in listen-only mode you have a couple of options for joining the audio portion of this webinar you can use your mic and speakers with your computer or you can call in using your telephone very important note we encourage you to submit your questions as you think of them throughout the webinar by typing them into the question box on the webinar console and hitting send we will be reading through your questions as they come in and we will answer as many as time allows at the end of the webinar we'll save some time for a Q&A and finally if this webinar is being recorded you will find a recording of this webinar as well as all of our previous resilient power project webinars on our website at resilient - power org with that I'd like to pass it over to our host for this webinar Todd Alinsky Paul Todd is a project director with Clean Energy Group thanks Samantha hi welcome to the webinar everybody this is Todd Olinsky Paul with Clean Energy Group I'd like to welcome everybody that's attending and also our presenters Nikhil Zuba and Jeff King who I'll be introducing in just a moment before I do that I want to give you all a little background the resilient power project is a project of clean energy group we're a non-profit based in Vermont and do we do a lot of work on clean energy policy and program development with States we work with national we work with do II and other NGO partners and in this case we have the good fortune to have funding from a number of foundations you can see on the slide here for hours work in the area of resilient power and this is the project under which we're presenting this webinar next slide please so resilient power is the concept that basically means it's a way to allow critical infrastructure and facilities to island and continue to self supply with electricity and sometimes with with heat or cooling F once the surrounding grid has gone down so for example in a case of a hurricane or other natural disaster or just due to a grid outage you know you want your your critical facilities to be able to continue to function with with electricity and so that would include facilities like first responders municipal buildings shelters schools that serve as shelters hospitals communications facilities fueling facilities and so forth you could see here on the screen that we've produced we actually produce quite a few reports and there's a few here that are examples of case studies we've done on fuel cells and in various types of critical facilities hospitals emergency responder emergency responder facilities cell phone towers etc where they have been placed and have functioned well during natural disasters to allow those critical facilities to continue to function even when the grid is down next slide please so I just want to say before introducing our speakers that the this webinar and several others that are coming up that will tell you about later are supported by nice the North East electrochemical energy storage cluster and we are very appreciative that nice provides this support and they are an excellent resource if you have if you need information on fuel cells and hydrogen next slide please so today we're going to hear from guest speakers at two green banks and they are going to talk about you know financing for fuel cells and for this kind of application first we're going to hear from Nicolas Zuba he is a manager of commercial and industrial programs at the Connecticut Green Bank he earned his Master of Public Administration degree from the Cornell Institute for Public Affairs at Cornell University where he focused on environmental sustainability programs design and management he also worked on environmental sustainability projects at Cornell including the Environmental Defense funds climate core program and with CA technologies incorporated he helped develop energy-saving project recommendations and ways to fund and finance those recommendations including advocating for a deploying pace property assessed clean energy financing in Suffolk County New York this work burned him their first annual best business case award prior to Cornell Nicholas worked for the town of Babylon government in Long Island New York in 2011 he became an administrator of the town's long island green homes program which is one of the first residential pace programs in the country to provide homeowners with financing to reduce their energy usage he expanded the program's outreach efforts and refined its policies increasing demand for green home services and partnered with similar programs in Long Island New York State and across the country to share its best Nicholas also holds Bachelor of Arts degree in political science from Ithaca College following his presentation we'll hear from Jeff King who is an associate at the New York Green Bank jeff supports the origination and evaluation and execution of scalable clean energy and efficiency project investments across New York State prior to joining the arc Green Bank mr. King worked as an analyst within Bank of America's corporate debt products team where he participated in the structuring underwriting and documentation of credit facilities and managed credit exposure for the global corporate investment banks loan and trading portfolio he participated in all aspects of the deal process including financial and industry analysis and support of companies specific and portfolio level decisions with focus on the industrials industry group mr. King also held additional positions at Bank of America in their risk organization as part of the Global Markets operational risk team he provided independent oversight of the Global Markets lines of business including equities credit products and REITs and currencies he was also a member of Bank of America's enterprise stress testing group responsible for conducting the dodd-frank act and comprehensive capital analysis and review or seek our stress tests mr. King holds a bachelor's degree in business administration from North Carolina State University with the concentration in finance and a minor in accounting so - really really well qualified speakers today we're fortunate to have both of them here and so I will pass this to Nicholas Zuba for the first of our two presentations I want to remind everybody that we do have a good number of people on this webinar we will do our best to get to your questions and address them after the two presentations but it will help us a lot to do that if you'll send them in now or as you think of them rather than waiting until the end and you'll have a better chance of getting them addressed if you do that we have a hard stop at three so without further ado I will this over to Nikolas Zuba great thank you so much Todd and I good afternoon to everyone listening on the webinar so I'm very glad to have the opportunity to speak with you all today about the CPAs program and how this is a financing tool that can help to deploy and to engender resiliency here in the state of Connecticut by being able to be more energy secure and to strengthen our energy infrastructure to basically make ourselves more again you stay guarded against basically future disasters and risk to our energy systems so my presentation today will be broken up into two main parts first I'll give you a quick introduction about the Connecticut Green Bank and our CPAs program and how it functions to help to deploy renewable energy sources including fuel cells and at the same time then I will then go into talking about how cheap aids can be used to basically help with you know different building owners to deploy different types of renewable energy sources such as fuel cells solar systems and as well as micro grid and district energy solutions to basically make ourselves more resilient for our energy future so first I just like to answer the question of who is the Connecticut Green Bank so we are a quasi public state agency that was created by the state of Connecticut legislature in 2011 with basically a dual mission that we were seeking to achieve so first and foremost we thought to have to deploy as much clean energy and energy efficiency as possible with the goal basically to improve our residential and a commercial existing building stock because basically these buildings were not built with energy efficiency in mind and were very inefficient in using energy and so we knew that we have to help our building owners who want to make these needed improvements to reduce their energy energy consumption and the cost associated with that but at the same time we have a lot of these are a lot of costs associated with doing these improvements and it requires a big investment to do so so basically we we make sure then to have to leverage as much capital as possible particularly from the private sector to pay for these improvements so that building owners and can get active the capital overcome the upfront impediments to basically paying those improvements and in basically being able then to deploy again this energy efficiency so we can again help to strengthen our energy future and as well as to our energy a system that we have in our state so now let me move very quickly to talking about the concept of the prop bases clean energy or pace for sure and basically in regards to our scene pace program here in the Connecticut Green Bank so our Connecticut Green Bank provides in education helps to facilitate 100% low cost and long-term funding and when I'm saying long term in this case I've been referring to terms that can go out to as many as 25 years specifically if you're looking to deploy a solar system in your in your building and basically with low costs we're talking about interest rates that probably range anywhere between 5 to 6% to pay on the obligation of being paid up to install those improvements and then what's the beauty behind this concept of pace is that it enables the building owner to repay that overtime through their property taxes so hence the concept of property except in this case where we're basically placing a benefit assessment on the property in a form of a lien where basically then the property owner retains that mechanism through this mechanism over time until the lien is fully satisfied and then released from the property and then the idea that it gets paid back over time through the energy savings that they get and it's a mature eyes again based upon that initial investment and being able to recoup the investment basically by the energy savings again that's being garnered from those improvements and to what's important to note is that the pace lien basically again stays on the property and would stay there regardless of whoever the ownership is because again the notion of a benefit assessment it's meant to again improve the building so regardless of whether the owner is who is usually the recipient of those benefits it basically will stay with that property until again it's fully repaid and again if there's a sale or a change of hands of ownership it gets the obligation to pay on see pace basically then gets transferred to whoever the new owner becomes so that is basically the concept of pace in a nutshell so in the case of our CPAs program more specifically there are some key benefits that we see from doing projects through our program so first and foremost is to mention this aspect again of a hundred percent financing that now we're doing outwards of 25 years for our loan terms so again to make manageable payments for our building owners and being able to maximize the net operating income that b'keen have from doing these projects and the energy savings that they can go up from doing those improvements and as well we always make sure that we can have a positive cash flow even in year one when we install these improvements so ensuring that there's enough and a robust savings that they're seeing right away so that they can begin paying their fee pace obligation over time and then also to then being able to save some money already in their pockets to then be able to be reused for other purposes such as maybe expanding their businesses or maybe for a nonprofit organization being able to meet their mission and their objectives as an organization we have a technical underwriting process for our program where we work with a third party administrator who will work with our contractors and building owners to ensure that these projects that get installed can actually save the energy that they say that they will save and we also make sure that is from an economic standpoint that these projects make sense to the building owners so that is saving enough money for them that they can make their payments in a manageable way and then be able then to again benefit from obviously doing those energy saving improvements while they stay within their own building and of course the main metric which is a statutory requirement of our program when we were created is that we have to make sure these projects have a savings to investment ratio or as I offer for short greater than one or and and making sure again that for every dollar that gets invested out that another dollar is going to be coming back in to make the payments unnecessary on the cpa's obligation on the property and once again this is again an obligation that remains fixed to the property every perspective again that whoever the owner is on the property they would have to be responsible for making those payments and so what kind of upgrades do we cover through program well it's basically anything that can save energy over their baseline and as long as those improvements don't go anywhere because again we have to make sure that those improvements remain affixed to the property because again it's benefiting that specific specific building in this case to ensure again that it's benefiting then will whomever the property owner ends up being on the building so among the types of improvements we can cover includes the building envelope type of improvements so like lighting upgrades to HVAC and even like automation and controls but at the same time and what we're really here focusing on today is then also the renewable energy systems in this case so things like fuel cells a solar system or a micro grid which can ensure that a building owner can kind of remove themselves from their dependency on a more fossil fuel generated source of electricity and basically then being more energy independent and being secure so they can guard themselves again against any future natural disaster or any other stresses that would occur on the electrical grid and other energy infrastructure that we see here within the state of Connecticut so now let me go into talking about some examples of how CPAs can be used to deploy different types of renewable energy sources so the first one of an in subject of our webinar being fuel cells so let me first explain how CPAs is advantageous in this case with regard to how we amortize our payments over time so in the case of say a fuel cell we know that basically fuel cells have a really consistent track record in terms of how much energy savings and make really consistent energy savings you're seeing over time so it's not kind of like like a solar system where you have degradation you have to be concerned about it and things of that nature so basically then we have a steady stream of energy savings coming into a project and so that's actually a match made in heaven you could say for how we operate in the sea pace program here and how we ammeter eyes on our payments because our payments are also fixed whereas a flat payment that again dictated by the investment that's put out and as well as what the annual energy savings that can be garnered from our improvements so at he end of the day we have to again be conscious the SAR requirement and ensuring we have enough savings coming in each year to pay for those fixed payments and so by doing that at the end of the day we basically then can say then we have the assistant here that really works well with a fuel cell at the end of the day to be able to pay back on that type of improvement and essentially what we're able to show and do as I'll show you in the next slide if you kind of combine all those value streams about what I just showed there which was basically energy savings as well as there's something called the Elric contract which I'll get into talking a little bit more about how I talk about the solar system in terms of a contract that's used for utility is here in Connecticut and as well as to the benefits of the federal investment tax credit this basically helps to pay for these projects and bring all these added value streams together to pay for the annual debt service on say a fuel cell that would be paid for by the Green Bank C pays program and essentially here so you see we have a flat line of payments that has to get made again none of these payments are accelerating so it will never in a future balance of the C phase obligation will never come due sooner than it's supposed to and so this basically aligns very well again with how we analyze and stretch out these payments for building owners so it's manageable tonight and so basically and also to the thing to note here is that we would probably in our program not pay for these improvements or have the amateur ization being anything greater than 10 years because probably around that period of time you'd be required to do a required maintenance on the fuel cell so for example restocking would normally have to happen around an industry standard that varies it seems to be what year it occur but say between say years 7 and 10 maybe you'll have to put out a major investment to take out plates that basically do the electrochemical generation of electricity and then replace them and that's usually a very heavy expense to do that and so we wouldn't recommend in our program to pay for of those improvements beyond the 10 years because again you're going to have a real sort of impact on your cash flow at that point and that could impact therefore then being able to pay your C pays obligation on top of all the other expenses that you might incur so that's basically what we would do in the case of a fuel cell with the CTA's program so let me quickly now go to a solar system now and how this would look for our C phase program so again you see the the different value strings here that are associated with a project that can help make it economical for a building owner and also to what's important to note now in this case is that you know we want to make sure that you know building owners have the opportunity to own their own systems and they can certainly own their own systems that they wish and the way we can enable them to to want to do that it's been being able to have their access to monetizing certain types of value streams that they can then get access to so that includes things like the federal investment tax credit which again that 30% and has now been extended for the next few years at that particular level and then to this notion again of the renewable energy credit or rec for short so basically in Connecticut we have different programs called either a zero a Cornell rec which is a 15-year contract that's set up by the utilities that enables people to get an added cash stream into their project for 15 years and makes it where then the building owner can have a more attractive project to deploy a solar in this case and so what again it enables them to do is to be able to own and their own system in this case and then be able to monetize those particular credits so that they can then pay back over time again as you will see through a flat payment basically for their their project it's going to be you know again very manageable for them and being able then to to pay for those improvements over say the course outwards so 25-year period as I was mentioning earlier and so what was great too about this is that they would then be able to then again have you know again manageable payments as I was mentioning but at the same time - they also could have the option to have it done through a power purchase agreement or even - through a solar lease which can then be done over a shorter span of time if they wish but again the what's different there is that they would not be able to monetize and get the benefits of say the rec programs or the ITC in this case and so therefore that would then go to the benefit of a third party owner so that's why we would probably again they throw the case of a see taste obligation we can basically ensure that a building owner can own their own system and get the guarantee of this total value stream or project and then lastly in an example of a micro grid you know that we see that there are many financing challenges to deploy this type of improvement to being more resilient so there are a number of different challenges that we see so first you know there could be multitude of technologies associated with a micro grid and our existing financial structures are really narrowly focused on one individual generator type and of course there could be multiple technologies associated with a micro grid so that's one problem the next is that there could be multiple credits so in other words there can be multiple people benefiting from a micro grid and so basically there could be different types of people who might be getting access to the lower and the cheaper say electricity they may get from a renewable source so like a house may be an industrial type and it may be - like a town hall for example in the Mersh market and then - there could be multiple revenue sources so things like you know again getting benefits of the reduced energy costs maybe social cost improvements in terms of reduced greenhouse gas emissions and so forth but again energy savings may not paint pretty total investment and some of those benefits may cost come at an added cost to that building owner and then also to you know we have to make sure that the demand and the supply of basically on that energy is basically equal in this case and then to the aggregate basically of the micro period of the aggregate use by those micro grid customers must be fitting for the operating profile for those generators so that's very important and then so basically see pace then can help to solve a lot of those challenges through basically making sure that the buildings are the collateral for those micro grid systems and so basically again the capital providers would then provide 100% low-cost long term financing in order to secure that serve then a senior tax lien that gets repaid through the property tax bills as I'd mentioned so the idea here is that you know we when we underwrite these projects we do so to the assets value at the end of the day but not necessarily to the business that's housed within that building so we use basically that building as the collateral so you basically then dictate again then how much then - we would assess them to do the cost basically associated with paying back on the micro grid so normally then the way we would secure it in this case would then be to that property and then the capital cost would be assessed on a pro-rata basis based upon the projected benefits that they would then get from doing being part of the micro grid system and in in this case a microgrid developer then could lock in the repayments over a fixed cost about 20 years in this case and then they can even enter into what are known as these energy service agreements with the customers so that they can ensure that they have a guaranteed energy supply the delivery is there and that also - ensures reliability because then there'd be guarantees basically rolled into this to ensure that basically they're getting the energy basically that's being being guaranteed to them in terms of the cost and what the demanda has to be supplied to those buildings and so that pretty much is my presentation for today I like to thank you all for giving me your attention and I will now have the back to time well thank you very much we are going to push ahead with our second presenter I just want to remind everybody again we have gotten only a couple questions and we are going to have time at the end for questions and discussion about about your comments so please send them in by typing them into the chat box in your webinar panel on your screen and we will get to as many as we can at the end okay we'll pass this over to Jeff King from the New York Green Bank thanks and thanks for the opportunity to discuss the New York Green Bank as Todd mentioned I'm an associate here at the Green Bank and today I'm going to discuss our role in New York's clean energy marketplace and Rev as well as how we partner with organizations and project across New York State and how those in the audience today can partner with the New York Green Bank so first I'll start with framing the market opportunity that spurred the creation of Reb or reforming the energy vision investment required in New York's energy infrastructure over the next 10 years has been estimated at 30 billion and that represents a significant near-term challenge and as we think about New York's future energy landscape we recognize that there is a need to improve our energy infrastructure and for a comprehensive strategy to create an efficient and reliable affordable clean energy system and that's really what Rev is a helpful story I heard when I first joined the Green Bank was that if Alexander Graham Bell were handed an iPhone he would have no idea what it was but if Thomas Edison were to walk into a power plant today he would know exactly how it works and that really exemplifies the progress that is still or still can be made in today's marketplace and what rather is trying to accomplish as slide 6 depicts we ultimately want to move away from centralized power to cleaner local more distributed power systems so what is Rev Rev is really comprised of three main pillars reforming state programs of which New York Green Bank is a part of public investment in energy efficiency and renewable energy and ground and regulatory reform some of you may be familiar with the rebbe demonstration projects that are currently being undertaken that's an example of some of the regulatory reforms being made and going further into the market opportunity for the New York Green Bank a market study by booze & Co was done that estimated the market opportunity for new york-based clean energy projects at approximately 85 five billion and that includes new technology scaling existing technology and is somewhat of a conservative estimate because it doesn't include large-scale renewables and as you can see on this slide there's currently a very narrow market segment being addressed and in this gap between the estimated market opportunity and what's currently being done in private market a need was identified to establish more precedent and crowd in investment from existing private market participants and so the specific constraints that the renewable energy market faces include unfamiliar structures small transaction sizes minimal standardization and other specific structuring issues that historically have limited the investment in renewable energy or energy efficiency and so that gets us to the New York Green Bank and what we are trying to achieve the New York Bank was formed to address these financing gaps we view ourselves as similar to other private financial institutions acting in these markets with the caveat that we can be flexible to provide solutions as long as they meet three specific components of our mandate the first being that we are market focused we need to achieve a market rate of return we also all of our transactions need to have clean energy benefits or in demonstrate reduced greenhouse gas emissions and lastly our role in a transaction needs to mobilize greater private sector capital and achieve market transformation and we really go about that by structuring our transaction to be replicable we take the view that the private market could or would assume our role if a certain scale or precedent is established and I'll briefly plug our team here over the past two years we've established a really great team that has extensive experience across a variety of asset class and functions with experience that many of the major players and Renewable Energy Finance and to provide these innovative solutions we try to be market responsive we have an open solicitation process and we also can provide a range of financing products including credit enhancement with things like loan guarantees and tenor extensions we also can provide warehousing or aggregation financing facilities that essentially give our counterparties a line of credit to grow and operate their business we also can provide more traditional assets loans and investments think term debt or bank debt and we also provide composite products and keeping with the theme of providing flexible solutions we can provide a combination of the things I just mentioned or other financing structures that we've contemplated thus far and we have strict investment criteria that we look at when evaluating transactions given that we are a prudent steward of ratepayer capital the credit quality aspect of our investments is very important among another other requirements that mirar mandate we have to our minimum investment requirements include achieving market rates of return like I mentioned we also need to demonstrate greenhouse gas emission reduction and we also like to see one or more private sector financial parties involved in our transactions and on the right on this slide you can see some of the questions we ask when addressing market transformation the additionality that New York Green Bank brings to a role in a project or transaction and how it can be replicated in the private market and today we've evaluated over a billion in financing requests and on this slide you can see the device the diverse asset classes and geographies and end-use customer segments that we have dealt with and as I mentioned we have an open solicitation process you can visit us at Green Bank on New York gov and see our RFP and see how you can partner with us we evaluate proposals on a rolling basis and try to be as responsive and helpful as possible we're actively speaking with stakeholders across New York State on potential projects and we're happy to answer any questions and discuss potential investments you can reach us at info at Green Bank New York gov and I'll briefly touch on what we see in successful proposals some things we look for our quality counterparties and experienced management teams we also like to have a defined role or see a defined role that the New York Green Bank is playing and we also pay attention to or look for a kind of party to address standard project finance risks in a transaction and on the next slide I won't go into too much detail but we announced several closed transactions in the fall of 2015 you can see here the different asset classes that we've worked with and the different forms of financing that we can provide and looking forward we can show here a few of these segments that were interested in addressing in the near future things like community solar which continues to be a big focus for NYSERDA in New York State battery storage electric vehicle financing solutions and utility scale wind among others are segments that we are focused on and we are a member of NYSERDA the New York State Energy and research Development Authority and just want to plug a few of the efforts going on here NYSERDA recently announced that announced their 2016 main tier solicitation for 150 million towards large-scale renewable projects and hydrogen and fuel cells are eligible to participate in those and while the New York frame bank isn't directly focused in that main tier solicitation happy to put anyone in touch with the appropriate people at NYSERDA involved in those effort and I will back up quickly because I think quickly passed over one slide that actually says what the New York Green Bank is we're a billion dollar state-sponsored specialized financial entity and that billion dollars was recently finalized I just wanted to address our final capitalisation I think I passed over that quickly but with that I think we can open up the question great ok thanks very much to both of you for the very informative presentations we do have a number of questions and if folks want to continue to send those in I encourage you to do that we'll get to as many as we can I always get the this question for everything every webinar that we do whether or not it will be available or whether the slides will be available yes they will it is being recorded we will be posted in our webinar archives along with you know both in its entirety with the audio and as just a slide deck so you will be able to access those shortly ok so we're going to go ahead and go to the questions one question that I thought was really interesting somebody wanted to know if you could give an example of a fuel cell project that was able to take advantage of these programs that you've both been discussing so I guess I'll I'll throw that out to each of our presenters if you could if you can give us an example of a fuel cell project that took advantage of program in each of your respective organizations yeah certainly I'd be happy to start with here with the Connecticut Green Bank so regrettably the answer is no we actually were working on the process of installing a fuel cell with one building owner fairly early in the the C phase programs history but unfortunately in the end we decided to go another route to go and fund the project so we came close but we have to have not had the opportunity though to revisit basically doing a fuel cell project but we're hopeful that this could be an opportunity that another building owner would eventually take up with us okay great and for for Jess yeah similar answer we haven't received proposals for fuel cell projects yet I would say that we have a fine list of technologies we can invest or work with and fuel cells and hydrogen projects are included but we haven't seen any today okay question for for I guess again both of you well more for Nick I think can can see pace only be used for class 1 projects and could you maybe define class 1 as well yes certainly so I believe was the question I've been asking about is basically these kind of more or less like zero emission type of projects in this case and in basically a class one that can also be like covered through the open markets rec programs in this case we're basically you can monetize those kind of along the sort of wholesale market but no the answer is actually we are more than happy to cover other different types of renewable energy sources and other classes for example we involved a deployed here in the cub of our YMCA there's a matter of facts our nonprofit organizations in Connecticut the use of compete combined heat and power type systems so PHP for short and and basically that falls under a class three in this case so we have actually done deployed that in a couple of those institutions where they're basically getting the benefits of being able to reuse waste heat in this case to then be going and used to keep their pools for example that are used by the open public so we have actually been able to do this basically these kinds of projects have been outside basically the realm of the class one type projects but I would say primarily though yet we've been doing those projects that probably in around the class one area for renewable energy sources okay great this is a more general question I'll throw out to both of you the question is whether your your these financing approaches are available to municipalities and I think it's an important question because in many cases there are municipal facilities that you know or our critical facilities in cases of you know natural disaster or great outages that can be can use fuel cells obviously as a resilient power technology and and often we see state programs that look to municipalities to lead in terms of you know applying for state funds for a resilient power projects so you know that's been true in Massachusetts it's been true in Connecticut with with the micro grids program so you know and in New York with their like my careers program a lot there's a lot of there's a large role for municipalities to play in these these programs so can municipal that which of which of these financing approaches can be taken advantage of by municipalities for municipal buildings yeah I'd be happy to go first so the short answer really is that the pace is really not a good option for municipalities and particularly obviously within the state of Connecticut here because essentially with the way that the way that you know tastes lien works and and putting that benefit sessemann on on a property you know if the municipality is owning that particular facility and that they then for some reason default on their C pace re payments in this case to basically themselves you know the making that payment through their property you know again you don't have a property tax code so that's who is located but at the same time they would have to agree then to foreclose on their own facility that they own so I don't know that that any municipality would ever want to do that so that basically would take them out of the equation immediately when it comes to dealing with the the pace situation and so we've had to spear a lot of those folks away from from from our financing solution and trying maybe to find other routes and avenues to basically help them into mush market yeah and in not a direct way we participated with municipalities but an indirect way was through a transaction we announced this fall and supporting a similar financing solution a pace loan mechanism that helped finance energy improvements for commercial property owners and nonprofits located in participating municipalities so we are indirectly working with municipalities and with a counterparty who is helping to support pace loan okay any any other you know approaches to financing that you're using that are available to municipalities well another one would be through community solar it's not something we've done yet but we've explored working with municipalities to support community solar efforts where they may be the off taker financing arrangements that our community solar projects for specific specific municipality yeah the only owner probably sort of a mechanism that that degree Bank here in Connecticut has it as disposals with the help would be through like a power purchase agreement arrangement as well as a solar lease that the municipality could potentially take advantage of to basically go and pay basically pay for a cheaper rate of electricity that's per system that's owned by a third party so so we have actually the Connecticut Green Bank our own dedicated basically fund in this case that we created a special purpose vehicle that we created that will enable us then to be able to pay for those type of improvements through again a PPA and so Louise structure which then the Green Bank basically is the owner of that solar system at least in the way that that's what we were working with that we've at this point okay great here's a question about standards and and I'm going to throw this out to both of you can you provide any technical standards or requirements like minimum efficiency for the fuel cell or capacity factors for the proposed application so any standards or requirements that you use when you look at you know applications or that you would recommend any third party set of standards or requirements or is that is that too narrow a question no no not seems none at all but basically you haven't in the case of the Connecticut Green Bank you know what I could probably speak to more more generally in this case of that you know as I was mentioning we have a basically technical administrator who works with our program who essentially will review you know those energy saving projects again to make sure that you know that you know the baseline has been done correctly on the building when they look at the energy audit and also to making sure that then from there that the the actual improvements are being recommended aren't giving saving on the energy that they're basically that they're expected to to garner from doing those improvements so and essentially our administrator basically works off of what are basically third part approved methods in this case to basically examine and look at those projects and names of fortunately escaping me at the moment but generally there are there they're adapted you know guidelines that are out there and that basically these folks are using through the case of our program to basically look at looking at these these particular improvements so basically like like deepa for example that's one sort of method in this case and also two at the same time too you know we require in this case two ASHRAE what will audits in this case to look at basically defining be a baseline so that can be anywhere from a level one so a level three type audit also so we work very closely with the international performance merit performance measurement and verification protocol as a way to for providing guidance on doing sort of the measurement and verification of those energy savings and also to I'm sorry when I said p5 probably people didn't know maybe what I was referring to so that's basically an acronym for the building energy performance assessment and basically helping to again look at basically baseline for developing pretended with developing the baseline for a building yeah a similar answer for the New York Green Bank we don't have published minimum standards for technology requirements but in keeping with our competitive mandate in being you know taking the view of the private market we may have a few different steps depending on the asset class we do have to adhere to the State Environmental Quality Review so we will require an environmental impact assessment for anything we're doing we also may procure an independent engineer to validate the technology or validate different aspects of the transaction and we also take advantage of being a part of NYSERDA and working with the different various programs we have here and approved technologies and improved in approved forms of really technology okay thank you we have a request for a way to contact you guys I guess for further information is there a way that we can put either an email or you know a website address on on our screen that has some you know information where people can can go for for more information yes certainly so basically on the last slide of my presentation I had I have my direct contact information on there and as well as to the link to our programs website which is a WWC p.m. and that's where then you'll be able to find some more information about our program and even get access to our program guidelines which initially you know Express without very explicitly you know what what basically our program is all about and look at the standards that we have preferred setting our guidelines okay and I guess both have you probably had that on your side so maybe synth if you if you have time if you can get those grab those there you go thank you that's what I was looking for so there you have it if you want to follow up with questions there's a couple of email addresses to use okay another question from participant what is the cost of fuel cells in dollars per kilowatt and is this decreasing yeah that's actually a very good question um so with regard to the one project that I could speak to analyse in our our program that we were looking at and then again of course they didn't get across the finish line but but essentially at the time I think the project was for I couldn't like it by the 800 kilowatt system and basically the at least I can tell you the per watt cost was the thing like seven dollars and 50 cents for that project but I don't have a good read though at this point as to what what's happening in the fuel cell market if it is in fact prices are going up it'll be going down at this rate I'm not familiar really would be with the economics of what that's what's happening next year but at least that gives you a sense though about again help me be expensive a project like that was at least a couple years ago at this point because that's that's what that project was looked at within our particular program yeah no I'll take the high road on that question and reiterate that we do have subject matter experts at NYSERDA so happy to put you in touch with the teams here analyzing those technologies on a very granular basis if you if you just want to reach out to me I can do that okay great here's a question about si pace does it require a single entity are going to be portioned among multiple players when developing a micro grid project yeah that's a great question so with the way that's what I was describing with regard to deny her grades in this case is that you know we we basically can have it where the capital cost associated with basically deploying a particular micro grid system is that it can be a portion basically to each of the participants on that grid based upon a pro-rata basis so in other words it's really going to be dictated and you know in terms of how much you know demand that they're drawing from that system as a percentage of the whole in this case with regards have been how much supply of energy is being produced by the central source that's basically it's being generated from so that that's basically been the way that we would approach it with the C based program is that we would essentially then be able then to apportion this to each of the people's who would be on the micro grid in this case again all dependent upon really how much they draw and how much benefit they're getting from that particular system so again they're not paying more or less than what they should be because of how much demand that they're drawing from that bad energy source okay thank you you know this is a question that I have in freek we come back to this question frequently so I'm wondering if either of you might be able to shed some light on it has to do with the value of resiliency now obviously a lot of time we you know we we look at these resilient power projects and you know you say okay we're going to install a fuel cell and we're going to provide benefits in terms of fuel you know energy cost savings maybe other benefits maybe you can play in the demand response market or something like that and we're going to try to stack these benefits to pay for the cost the install cost of the equipment and we're also providing a resiliency benefit to the host facility but that's not monetizable because there's no market for resiliency even though we know it has an enormous value to the community to the facility to the business that our businesses that occupy the facility and the surrounding community etc and so I'm wondering is there any you know as I said we come back to this frequently is there any progress being made that you know of either in the insurance industry or you know in the banking community to start to assess the value of resiliency in different applications I know it's a very broad question but curious whether it's something that you you run into yeah that's certainly a good question to ask I mean in terms of lease of what I've been hearing about in the insurance market the only things that I've actually heard about is that now more and more insurance companies or at least are starting to they're starting to incorporate the notion of climate change now into their underwriting process to basically acknowledge that this could have an impact obviously on premiums and they're trying to guard against obviously any risk due to basically lost due to say a an event that might be attributed to two changes of our climate so I know that that's certainly one thing I know that the insurance companies are been caring about them starting to do in order to to to assess for that the only other thing I can also I can tell you about it with regards to how these particular re ewable energy sources are being viewed at least in the appraisal community so there's been a lot of work that's been done by the likes of like an appraisal Institute and as well as the appraisal foundation which is more of a policy arm and where they've been developing you know guidelines and and different sort of ways to evaluate and value these sort of energy-saving improvements to see what it can do to actually add value to a building in this case so that that's that certainly is one way that we've been noticing that that may be resiliency is starting to and and putting those type of renewable energy sources is maybe starting to be monetized now so in the form of improving basically the value of the asset that's being improved at least in the case of our pay small gate in this case so you know we've been seeing if that these institutions have been in developing you know ways to say that now that discounted cash flows from the energy production from those particular renewable energy systems can now be added back into now the total value of the building then should they actually them to go and decide to uh then sell their building in the future they're now going to have an improved building with a higher basically value to that building that now they can now put on the market to the show that they are now a more resilient building that they can actually show that now they are guarding themselves against any future risk that might be occurring with regard to natural disasters or again stresses to the energy grade so that's that look that's at least a couple you know things that I've been hearing about in the marketplace with regards to how how these types of systems are premia being viewed and how they're reacting against any sort of you know climate losses maybe in the future yeah I was completely agree with Nicola said about insurance companies we've had a few conversations with insurance companies and asset managers who are increasingly valuing and pricing assets that involve created resiliency and at least qualitatively I think we're continuing to see proposals and counterparties who either indirectly or directly with utilities are pricing and seeing reception to great resilience II and like battery storage we have a lot of conversations with utilities on how to value those asset that incorporate those assets and it seems like there's a lot of momentum behind incorporating those types of things and valuing okay well thank you both we do have some more questions I apologize we didn't get to all of them but we do have a hard stop in one minute at 3 o'clock so we're going to have to wrap up thank you very much to both of our guest speakers Nicholas Zuba from Connecticut Green Bank and Jeff King from New York Green Bank you can see their contact information on the screen and thank you to nice and I oh well I before we go want to give Samantha a chance to put out the information on upcoming webinars that may be of interest thanks Todd we do have a lot of webinars coming up one in particular that might be of interest to the folks who attended this webinar on March 17th we have a webinar on the topic of fuel cells for telecommunication details on that webinar are upcoming you'll be able to find information on that and our other webinars on our website at cleaning up or backslash webinars and I'd also like to leave you with some web addresses and contact info for a clean energy group and Denise and thank you everyone for coming to our webinar today I hope to see you at another one soon