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>> Good morning and welcome to our Focused Friday. We are beyond excited and thrilled for the panel that we have with us today. Thank you all for being here, as well as thank each of you for being here. We're excited to have our Focused Friday. My name is Garret Steed. I'm one of the Managing Directors of Partners in Business that helps put on Focused Fridays. We have a new initiative this year. We're excited to be able to participate with the Dean's office with this. To get us started, we have Howard Headlee, who'll be our moderator for today's panel. He has spent the past 20 years in President and CEO of UBA, and we are thrilled to have him here with us. Actually, Howard and I, we go a little ways back. Actually, when I was in the fifth grade, I knew his son as well as many others that went to American Preparatory Academy back in the day when I was in elementary school. Pretty neat to have him here with us. As well as we have Steve Dallin, who is the Small Business Credit Administrator of Zions Bank. We also have Terry Grant, who is Utah Market President of KeyBank here with us. Mike Weeks, who is the Vice President of Morgan Stanley. Kyle Brown, Vice President in Internal Audit of Medallion Bank, and Dale Buxton from Lewiston State Bank who is also the President. Let's go ahead and give them a warm welcome from Utah State University for being here. >> Garret, thank you for inviting us up here. It's always great to come up to Utah State. We love coming up here. A number of us have been here before talking to students. This is a great university and always has phenomenal students. I'd look at this crowd. It's very impressive. Congratulations to you for taking the time to come out and hopefully learn some things that will change your lives. I mean, the banking industry, I think what you'll find today has changed the lives of everybody on this panel and for the better. We want to give you that perspective. There's not a lot of people that go to college and study and say, "I'm going to go be a banker." We'll find out if anybody is one of those, but everybody I talked to you in banking is what I call an "Accidental banker." They get involved in banking and they fall in love with it because of the role that banks play in the community, in the economy, in the world, and in the lives of everybody. I'm a real history buff, a real fan of the founding of this nation and the Constitution. When you talk about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, the pursuit of happiness doesn't happen without banks, without people facilitating others realizing their dreams. It's intoxicating. Once you get a taste of it and you have the opportunity to play a role in helping somebody else do something they've been dreaming about, making their lives better, improving the outlook for their families and for their communities, it really is intoxicating. Whatever stereotype you have that you've gotten from Hollywood or whatever you might have it, our goal is to blow that out of the water today. There's not an industry that's enduring more innovation than the banking industry today. There's not a state or a location in the country that is more diverse and more innovative than Utah. I'm guessing many of you wouldn't know that Utah is one of the largest banking states in the country. We punch way above our weight. Literally, there are banks here that you've probably never heard of. Anybody heard of Medallion Bank before? No? On your seats, you've gotten a list of the banks in Utah that are part of the Utah Bankers Association. I'm guessing there are some banks on that list that you've never heard of, that you didn't know were here. It's true. We are the most diverse banking state in the country. That's good news for you because there are all kinds of opportunities for careers and employment and learning and working and contributing to the economy. Not just of Utah, but the economy of the United States. Within those companies, within those banks on that list, are innumerable different types of jobs. I would venture to guess what you think of, what pops into your head when you think of bank or a banker, but again, our goal is to blow that out of the water. I've met somebody at Morgan Stanley a couple of months ago that has a PhD in Genetic Engineering. He does modeling, stress-test modeling for Morgan Stanley. I think that's what he does. There are all kinds of different jobs in the banking industry, all kinds of wonderful careers. Our goal is to expose you to that, and then, hopefully, get to some question and answers so that you can explore a little bit more about that. Utah is an exciting place to be. I always like to talk a little bit about the word bank. It's fascinating to see folks that come and want to hear about it. After the last eight or nine years, the word bank is a four-letter word. It's been used very negatively. Most of the times I hear the word bank being used negatively on CNBC or whatever. They're not even talking about banks. They're very lazy. Anything that's financial in nature, that's as big institution, they just call it a bank. AIG wasn't a bank. The institutions, a lot of which were at the center of the financial crisis. They weren't even banks. Bank is a protected term. The only company that can use the word bank in their name is a company that's applied to the FDIC, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, and received FDIC insurance, meaning you can put your money in that institution and it's guaranteed up to $250,000, so it's safe. It's low risk. Because it's low risk, it's low cost. Those are the funds that are the center of gravity for our economy. Every business in the country wants to get to the point where they can qualify for a loan that's funded with FDIC-insured deposits, your deposits, your checking account, your savings accounts. That's the lowest possible cost funds for their business. When a business starts, the access to funds they have are usually pretty expensive because it's risky. Start-up firms are risky, so they go to venture capitalists and so forth. They demand a pretty high return, but when you get to the point in a business where you can get a loan from one of these guys, you're talking about a pretty low-cost loan because they're funded with very low cost funds. That is the center of gravity. A lot of people think that banking is boring, but everything revolves around that one component, that FDIC insurance component. Those are the only institutions that can call themselves banks. Now, every one of these banks here takes a little bit of a different twist on how they take those FDIC-insured deposits and deploy them into the economy to make the economy grow and help people realize their dreams. I want to get to that as quickly as possible now. We're going to have each of the panel members just talk a little bit about themselves, what they studied, how they got into banking, what they do, maybe about the role their bank plays. I'm going to ask a couple of questions as follow-up, and then, we'll get right to Q&A. With that, I'll go to the first banker on our panel is Kyle Brown. As Garret indicated, and I do want to say to Garret, I'm so proud to see APA graduates. APA is a charter school that I founded back in 2001, and it's now the largest charter school organization in the state of Utah. Everywhere I go, I run into just outstanding. It's hard. It's a tough school. It's academically rigorous. Those that went to it survived. I typically find they are doing spectacularly well. Great to see you again and thanks for having us. With that, Kyle, why don't you tell us a little about yourself, what you do at Medallion Bank, and how you became a banker? >> Okay. Well, I am definitely an accidental banker. This was not my career path at all. I knew I wanted to do business. I studied business. I got a Bachelor's in Business Administration from the U. First, I went into the stock market. It was at E*TRADE, working with some active traders or hyperactive as I call them. Interesting guys. I was doing that, but what I really wanted to do was commercial real estate. I eventually left there and went off to a regional developer. I thought things were going pretty well. Then, right near the end of 2008. This developer was looking to shed any expense possible, and I quickly found myself looking for work. Which was a very tough time to be looking for work. I don't know if you knew that or not. But commercial real estate was a disaster at the time. After a period, a friend of mine called me up and said, "Hey, we're hiring. I think we're hiring to people you should really apply". He was an examiner. So not a banker exactly, but a banking regulator. He says apply, and by the way, the job closes at midnight. I had like two hours to get it in. But anyway, that's how I got into banking very accidentally and I actually started on the regulating side, I think I'm probably the only one here that did that. Anyway, I did that for several years. Tell us about Medallion. Okay. So Medallion bank, we are what's called an industrial bank. Our whole charters a little different our business model is a little different. If you went into our office, it would not look at all like a bank. We have no tellers, we have no vaults, we have no checking accounts, no savings accounts, we have no branches, no ATMs. It doesn't look anything like a bank. But we get our deposits from brokers, then we deploy those deposits and loans. We get our name Medallion bank from the taxi medallion lending that we do in New York and Chicago, and a couple of other key cities around the nation. Which is a fascinating kind of lending. Actually, right now it's extra fascinating with the ride-sharing companies coming along and some of the disruption happening in that taxi business. So you've had to adapt? Absolutely, we've totally had to adapt. We had a business model that we had been doing for. Well, before we had a bank the Medallion financial had been lending on these taxi medallions for like 60 years, had essentially never lost a penny. Everything was running along fine. Then Uber and Lyft come along and suddenly everything is different and everyone scrambling trying to find how do we continue to make this work? How do we innovate to keep up with the changes in technology and the changes in the business model. That's been fascinating. We also do some consumer lending. We've got a national portfolio of recreation loans for boats and RVs and things like that. Then we do some home improvement pools and solar and kitchen remodels and things like that. All of which has been really fascinating and an interesting way to go looking. Looking back on this pathway now, when you were in school, what advice would you give in terms of classes, studies? What do you remember now that you studied in college that is particularly important to you or you wish you maybe had studied more? I took the required two accounting classes and decided that I'd never wanted to see a debit or credit in my life. Now, my life revolves around him and I wish that I had learned that language a little more. People say accounting is the language of business and as a student I didn't get it. I didn't understand how important that was and that's for me in my career path that would have been really useful to have more accounting. Awesome. Let's move on to Terry with a come back to some other questions. Terry. Does this work? Can everyone hear me? First of all, let me just say how excited I am to be here with you today. I'm honored. I get so much energy when I get to interact with students and that's one of my favorite parts of my job and representing KeyBank is getting out and being with students. So thank you for allowing me to be with you today. I will carry the trend. I did not think I was going to be in banking. My wife and I got married. I was raised in [inaudible] , my wife in Brigham City. We decided to cut the apron strings, so to say, and moved to Denver, as newly weds. My wife had found a great job and she was working full time. My job was in the evening working with amateur sports clubs. I didn't have anything to do during the day, we were broke, we were just newly weds. So I was looking through the Denver post one day and there was a job for a teller, my thought, and they called it a peak time teller back then. During the peak hours and you'd come in and you would be on the teller line, but you had no benefits. But the pay was pretty good and I'd work three or four hours a day during the afternoon and that would allow me to prepare for my evening job. My evening job ended up going bankrupt. I went on as a full time teller. I'll date myself just a little bit. That's when ATMs were first being introduced and nobody wanted to bank with a machine. People would stand in line 10-15 minutes to bank with their teller because they had a personal relationship. They knew each other's kids, whatever. We had competitions on the teller on who could send the most people down to get a demonstration on how to use an ATM. Fast forward today, I was joking recently with somebody I said, we ought to have demonstrations on how to actually bank with a live person. Because everyone does it online. Our business, we talked about technology just a tad, but boy, technology is changing in light years really quick in our industry and disruptive. We're as banks who started out as bricks and mortar companies years ago were competing now with virtual companies that started virtually. We need to bring that together to be client centric type organizations. I started as a teller. In the state of Colorado, they didn't allow branch banking. They didn't allow anybody outside of the state of Colorado to own a bank in Colorado. What that meant was a very inefficient system, so there was eight central banks. I worked at central bank of Denver. Each one had their own bank president, each one had their own board, each one had their own infrastructure. As a teller at central bank of Denver, if somebody came from central bank of [inaudible] , I could not find them on our computer system. They were like banking with somebody else. Back in the early 80s, there's a thing called the S&L, savings and loan crisis. Yet I'm dating myself. Basically, the state of Colorado allowed a bank called First Bank systems out of Minneapolis-Saint Paul, to come into Colorado and purchase a bank if they would bail out the S&L industry. So they did, about 30 to 40 percent of the people I knew got laid off because you can imagine how inefficient our infrastructure was in Colorado. I went off to a graduate school place called Thunderbird out in Arizona its an International Management School for my MBA. I was determined not to get back into banking because I had saw, so much bloodshed, and I thought why would I want to work and industries can continue to consolidate. I had five years of banking by then I'd been off the teller line and become a credit analyst, working loan servicing and had a lot of wonderful experiences before going to graduate school. The job market was pretty tight and even though I interviewed with a whole bunch of other companies because I had five years of banking experience, I got three job offers. I had two kids by then, I needed to put food on the table. All three of those job offers were for banks two domestic, one foreign. I did my homework. It was Royal Bank of Canada, and I found out they'd already consolidate in Canada. There's really only five banks in Canada, coast to coast, major banks, RBC being the largest. I ended up going with that just because of the experience I had in in Denver, and it was a wonderful experience. I started within in Los Angeles, they took me up to Toronto. I ended up in New York doing some incredible things. While there I joined a French bank, Credit Lyonnais and spent eight amazing years running a global group for them. My clients were Goldman Sachs, Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, CS First Boston. All these wonderful names a lot of them don't even exist anymore. But I worked with their treasury areas to fund them. I had a little over $2 billion in credit that I oversaw for this segment on a global basis. Then a little thing called 911 happened, and after 10 years in Manhattan, my wife and I didn't think that would be such a great place fo me to hang my hat every day. So we started a network where both Utons and bank one gave me a wonderful opportunity to come back and run their commercial division here in Utah. I came back and then a little bank called Chase came along and acquire bank one, that opportunity went away. I went over to US Bank and ran a team, and then I had an opportunity to start a brand new bank in town. I thought that was fascinating to start a new bank from scratch and so we did that. I found out I wasn't a very good small bank banker because anyway, there's a story behind that. I went over to Wells Fargo and help ran their commercial team. Then three years ago went over to KeyBank. KeyBank just to follow up on how our KeyBank started in the late 1800s here in Ogden Utah. The Hemingway family combined two Ogden state banks and created a bank called Commercial Security bank. Commercial Security Bank was a major business bank here in Utah for many years. Then in 1988, KeyBank acquired Commercial Security Bank and its sister bank, Idaho Bank and Trust, and got into both Idaho and Utah through that acquisition and rename re-brand at KeyBank. Because of political pressures in 1992, they move their head office from Ogden to Salt Lake. We have the KeyBank Tower as part of a city Creek, and we have 36 branches across the state, the watch front, I should say, and a little over 400 employees in the state. We have a great franchise, all service bank, with all lines of business including investment banking and capital markets, and wonderful leaders. My job is to just get out of their way. >> Thanks, Terry. Dale? >> Good to be here. It is exciting to come here. Like Terry said, you get a lot of energy when you come to a group like this. I thought of the times I ran across campus freezing my Heidi off during the winter when the wind is coming down the canyon. But I grew up here in the Valley, out at Mountain Cornish, a little town in the Northwest corner. But again, I work for Louise and State Bank. I progressed through the schools here and I ended up graduating from USU. I had a degree in Economics. So I spent a lot of time in the business building. That was where I got my start and between my junior and senior years, I went and did an internship with the Federal Land Bank Association in California. That was focused on primarily Agri-real estate loans. It was a great opportunity for me to get a first exposure to banking and lending and that type of thing. So I started down there. I did that for three or four years. I had an opportunity to come back to the Valley. Now, I grew up on a dairy farm because I'm an accidental banker too, because I really came here expecting to get an Ag degree and go back to the farm. As I did that and had this exposure to the lending aspect of the world, then I came back here and had an opportunity to join Louise and state bank. I haven't had anywhere near as diverse of experience as Terry. I've worked at the Land Bank and I've worked a little at Louise and State bank. So my pathways is pretty simple. But during that time I've just started out a little bit lending, a little bit tailoring, a little bit changing the light bulbs because as a community bank, we only had one location, we were just in Lewiston. We had, I think I started, we were $42 million bank, which in relative terms isn't very large. But since that time we have expanded and grown to where we're about roughly 350 million now. So things have changed. We've got five locations here in the valley and that's the background that I guess I come from. We've got a good diversity of the types of bankers here. I guess in terms of that I'm the little guy. But we deal with the community banking aspect. All of us serve customers as best we can and all of us serve the communities that we're in. But in a very real sense, we're just in this community and this is our realm. We've had a lot of good growth, lot of good experience here. It's amazing what's happening in cash value, when you deal with quite a confined area, it's amazing to see and get to know all the things and the people that are happening and going on here. But that's my experience, Henry. >> Let me ask you a question then, since you studied here and you didn't necessary go into where you thought you were going to go. Tell me about your studies here, what you studied that impacted your career, what you may wish that you'd maybe take a couple of more classes on while you were here. >> I think the thing that was most impactful for me was Dr. Godfrey. He's since retired, Bruce Godfrey, but he had a Ag finance class, which focused obviously on the Ag aspect of finance. With that, that was what made my introduction into the banking world. As far as what I wish I'd had done more of, I was like you, I took the minimal amount of accounting and I got through the the amount that I had to have, but by the time I got into the realm, I wish I had more accounting background. As I progress through the process, like I mentioned, really started out as a lender slash Teller, worked up to where I was in an operational officer and then we ultimately came to where I was our CFO. Now, CFOs are typically CPAs and people who have a lot of background in that side of the world. I didn't have a strong background there, but was able to get through and manage that. But that's something that would have been much more helpful, had I been able to. >> I'm assuming there are some people who come from Ag or at least familiar with Ag, maybe not, but I assume there's at least a few. But we all eat egg, right? We all rely on Ag. Agriculture is so important. Does Agriculture exist without banking and finance? >> No. Not, in today's world. When you're buying combines that are quarter to half a million of expense there. The equipment is tremendously expensive. The capital investments, in general, are very difficult for a startup operation to even begin to think about. You have to have some kind of a foot in the door with some family or with some other kind of relationship to make that happen, but no, to answer your question directly. Without that type of financing and that type of support, the nature of agriculture would be completely different. So that's the way it is. >> Thanks Dale. Thanks for what you do. Steve, go ahead. >> Yeah, good morning everyone. I have a little bit of a similar story that Dale has here. But first and foremost, the most important thing about me is I also, I'm an Ag and I'm proud to say that. It was great to come into the Valley this morning and see the big A on the hill and the flood of memories that just came back. But great school, great opportunity. I commend all of you for taking this opportunity to be here this morning. I'm going to jump to one of the questions that was asked before as far as, what would I do differently? This is why, I think it's so important that you guys are here because I didn't take these opportunities. I had the checklist of, here's my major sheet and here's this class, done, done, done and not to worry about the things that came along with it and focused in on the learning aspect of it. Again, I commend you for taking the opportunity this morning and in subsequent weeks to visit with people and just network with this. with that being said, I worked for Zions Bank. I work in credit, credit risk management. I'm talking about my story, again, where it starts here at Utah State. I was able to go to the college of agriculture as well, when it was just down the quad instead of next door here. But I ended up with a dual major in both business and Ag business. My intentions were again, I'm one of those, one of the four now, accidental bankers. I was never going to be a banker. I wanted to do anything but banking. Again, Agriculture was the avenue that I chose. However, that being said, I had some background in real estate appraisal and my plan was to go work for a company that I could do agriculture, real estate appraisals. Right out of school, right after I graduated, I moved up to the State of Washington in Spokane, I worked for farm credit up there doing Ag appraisals. Where the accident comes into play here is, they had a fantastic credit training program that they required all new hires to be part of, and started getting into some of these courses that they taught in house, and again, thank you. That's all great. But I've already taken those at college. I don't want to be a banker, so on so forth. I got into it more and just fell in love with the credit aspect of banking. So quickly I changed over to the credit side, the lending side, got through my training program and completely abandoned the appraisal segment. With that, there was an opening again where I'm from, Utah. I wanted to eventually get back to Utah. There was an opening with farm credit here in Northern Utah as an Ag Lending Officer. So I quickly jumped on that opportunity. I was there for several years and seeing the ups and downs and the cyclical nature of agriculture, thinking, I need to diversify a little bit because when everybody's struggling, it's tough, but when everybody is doing well, it's very easy. I want somewhere in between. Again, I'm a banker, so I'm conservative by nature. An opportunity came up at Zions Bank. I jumped on that opportunity to diversify a little bit to not only be part of agriculture, but also commercial lending. I started out with Zions Bank, doing commercial underwriting. So really getting into the nuances of the credit pieces. Again, the accounting that we're talking about: getting the borrowers financials, digging into those, seeing what makes the operation work, why they do what they do, the financial decisions that they make, and being able to see two companies that basically do the same thing, can do it completely different. So introduced into really the art of lending. There is a Science of lending. But again, it's not always black and white. Most of the time it's not black and white. That's what really excited me with the credit piece of just seeing how people do what they do and some are successful and others not so successful. Again, moving up through the corporation, I became a calling officer. I wanted to get out to the businesses, seeing what makes them tick, selling the banking products. But again, at the time still being able to do the underwriting and analysis, that credit piece that I really enjoyed. Over the years I was able to move into a management position that did a lot of centralized underwriting. So not only seeing things in Northern Utah, but now being introduced to businesses throughout Utah. Talk about Zions Bank just a little bit, I actually worked for the Bankcorp, which is the holding company of Zions Bank, which is probably the brand that you're all well aware of here in Utah. But were much larger than just Zions Bank, that's just one of the bank affiliates that we hold. But if you were to draw a line on the map from the tip of Washington State down through Texas and everything to the south and west of that, Zions Bank has a footprint in that with affiliate banks within those states. Again, going to a centralized group, being able to not only seeing Northern Utah loans and Utah loans, but expanding that into Arizona, California, Texas, seeing how producers and businesses run their businesses throughout that footprint of the western United States. Again, credit has always been my passion and being able to understand credit and the nuances of such, that's where in my role today I do a lot of policy procedure, credit risk management, understanding how much risk tolerance as a bank we have. Howard mentioned a little bit, each of us as banks, we do things just a little bit differently. But overall, what's the appetite that we have for the risk that's being associated with that so that we can again get the rewards? So that being said, that that's my story. Going back to schooling, what would I change? Again, you guys are doing that right now. You're taking advantage of things that I didn't. I was so worried about what's the next step. I didn't focus on what I was learning at the time. So that's the one thing that I would just commend you for doing that. Focus on the studies because you've got the rest of your life to work, enjoy it now, and then it'll come later, thanks Steve. Mike. I do the best type of banking. We do security based banking or lending, where if you have a brokerage account and you hold stocks or bonds, will actually hold that as collateral and give you a loan. Which was perfect for me because I remember taking finance classes. I'm a finance major and day trading while I was in class, we're learning about how to value a stock using the dividend discount model or whatever and I would apply that to stocks that I was looking at and day trading class sometimes do really well, sometimes do horribly well. I got a job at Goldman right out of school and I was a controller. I worked with trading desks on calculating their P&L everyday. A good portion of what I did was look at the books and the positions that they had and try to figure out if they're marking their positions correctly. A trader can buy anything and market at whatever he wants. He can buy a bond at $90, market at 102 immediately. It was my job to go in and look and try to figure out if we thought 102 was a fair price or if we needed to market down to 90 or down to 80. Very fascinating, great to be connected to the markets. But it was a grind and so I ended up finding a job at Morgan Stanley, which does lending on securities, which is perfect because I'm good at figuring out if something is trading for a fair price and looking at the trend if it's going to trend upward or downward. We'll do loans for any amount, but myself and another colleague, we do loans greater than 25 million. What we do is we'll have any type of borrower come in, whether it's a small business or an individual, and they are looking to expand their business buy a building, buy a yacht, buy a mansion, where we'll hold the collateral and figure out how much we're willing to lend to them. Are we going to lend 20 cents on the dollar, 50 cents on the dollar, 80 cents on the dollar. Then after we lend that out to them, we'll manage that portfolio and see what the risks are. In my opinion, it's an awesome way to do banking that I didn't know existed. But also be connected to the markets, which is what I really had a passion for as well. >> Thanks. Tell me about your schooling, just quickly what you wish you might have studied more. >> I mean, I being a finance manager, I really thought I was probably going to end up working at Rocky Mountain Power or something doing financial forecasts, which is a good job. But I really had a love for the markets and if I could do it over again, it would be accounting because there's so many openings and jobs and needs for those skills and if you know that language, you'll just impress people and be in the right spot. >> Well, I don't know, I love that answer because I went down to BYU and I'm from Detroit. I came out here, didn't know any about the West, I went to BYU and I was horrible at accounting. I hated it. It's my worst subject, I got worst grading in Accounting 201 or whatever they made you take and I said, "Man, I better do better, hit this." I majored in accounting because it was my worst subject I've ever had to offset that. Looks like I made the right choice, now I don't do anything with accounting. But I'm never disappointed that I know it, because I work with bankers and I'm telling you, you can't go into a boardroom or into a meeting with any of these guys and not be able to speak their language. I look like an idiot. I guess does benefit me, but I loved that answer. >> Job security. >> I love the answer. Are we ready to go to Q&A? Good. Because I want to give a little bit of context. You've heard a couple of things said, risk management. Fundamentally, what banks do is they manage risk and that's really where they add value to the economy, and so you've heard a number of folks mention that. Everybody here probably takes a slightly different approach to that risk. It could even be regulatory risk. It could be financial risk. >> Reputation risk. >> Reputation. >> We'll go there, but. >> We're not going to go there. >> I wouldn' bring that up. >> Reputation risk is market risk. But the matter of being able to use your smarts, use what you learn in college to be able to manage risk. Risk is everywhere. You can't eliminate it, but you can manage it. That's why different banks can approach the same loan totally differently. That's why I love banking. Because every dream comes with the risk attached. Does anybody want to talk about what they do in the area of risk management? It's a crazy question, but talk about a little bit what you do and your angle on it. >> I mean, so I'll just speak because there's announcement yesterday about changes at the Fed, and on Janet Yellen not being at the Fed anymore. When you have changes in potentially interest rate, we're all sensitive to interest rates in our banks as far as what we pay for deposits and what we're able to receive from the people who have loans. Any changes in the broader economy and the global macro events will affect how we're able to make our money and how much money we're able to make, and also what we're able to loan out to individuals. Having a grasp on being able to model that out or take an idea of interest rate sensitivity, I think is something. We talked about a guy that I work with who has a PhD in something completely different, but because he's so good at numbers, you can just plug and play and pretty much in any business and he's able to kind of calculate the stress if we raise interest rate 50 bips, what is that going to mean for us? What is that going to mean for our portfolio? Probably something I probably also with accounting probably should have looked at more. >> Anybody else want to talk about risk? >> Everyone who works at the bank is responsible for risk, every single person. There is not one position that is not responsible and overseas some type of risk. Even on the sales side, the relationship managers, the calling officers, you hear them. used Interchangeably, but the best calling officers, the best relationship managers, know risk, know credit inside now, so they can be proactive. It is not just going out and being a salesperson trying to sell the product of the day. You're talking with CFOs, you're talking with treasures, you're talking with owners, people that really get it. If you can bring solutions to them by being proactive, because you've read their financials or you've seen different things and you know you have some products and services that they can benefit from to help manage their risks and their company, and make their cash flows may be more efficient so that they can fund themselves a little bit more through internal cash flows, collecting receivables and maybe stretching out payables or whatever the case is. Then you're adding value. But risk is the centerpiece. I like to say as we go down credit analysts and calling officers, relationship managers, we go down the same path and then there comes this fork in the road. Some people love to have goals put out at them and go out and meet new people and try to bring solutions to companies and to individuals and be that and then gain that trust in that relationship. The feelings that they get when they get that trust, that new relationship comes out of the bank is incredible. Other people, they would hate that. They would rather be more on the analytical side. Let the numbers tell the story of what's going on, and sure, still interact with clients, but not have those sales goal responsibilities placed upon them. Within the banking world, there's just so many different areas that you can be, but risk and especially credit risk, all those other risks that [inaudible] mentioned are the fundamental key to managing. >> I want to ask [inaudible] question about risk. Are there instances when you might understand the risks associated with one of your customers better than the customer does? >> Yes. You get people who have dreams that come in and they want to build something or buy something or do something and they really are more enamored by the opportunity that, that presents and they really haven't taken time to sit down and say what if, and that you can list all the things that could potentially occur and so that's part of the process of a banker. As a loan officer, you have to sit down and say, have you considered this? Have you prepared for that? How will you deal with this if this type of situation occurs? In large extent, you have to have, take a step back from the emotion, think about it practically and then you have to become an educator on how you can work with that person. They a lot of times are disappointed because you say well, we can only go this far. That may not be far enough for their needs but you can help them at least bring it closer together and be able to hopefully come to an agreement in that relationship. But again, credit risk is really probably the thing that we all deal with and that's kind of the bread and butter of most banks and if you do that right, you're going to be profitable and things are going to work both for the borrower and the lender. >> It's a great function of the banking industry, we're kind of driven by a certain amount of risk. You put your money in a bank, it's a checking account or savings account, you expect to get it back, how much risk are you willing to take when you put your money? I mean, when you put it into a stock, you understand what that means but when you put it in the bank, you expect to get it back. That's what FDIC insurance is all about. That's our starting point for risk and then we managed that and when you see people with dreams, with businesses that are doing incredible things for our community and you just look out across this valley, people taking risks every day, the bankers provide incredible value to those people by helping them better understand the risks that impact what they're doing and manage those risks. Sometimes with different products, sometimes just with planning, preparation, prudently approaching their business and that is so satisfying when you have somebody comes in with their business, with their dream and you are able to protect them from something bad that would have happened, really put it in jeopardy especially, I especially think about that in terms of AG because those risks in terms of commodity pricing and interest rates and weather and all these things. That's a real roller coaster and we all rely on those people for the food that we eat and for all the products, so thank you for what you do in the area of AG. I love the Q and A part because we've been sitting here and talking and there's some things that I'd like to drag out of these guys but I think it'd be better to hear what's on your mind. One of the things that we haven't quite explored, Utah is unique. The reason why Utah is one of the largest banking states in the country is because of this industrial Bank Charter. Goldman Sachs came to Utah with industrial Bank Charter. It's no longer an industrial Bank but they have a huge presence here. Same with Morgan Stanley, if you've seen this square thing you put in your phone and you can swipe and you can square, you're all familiar with square, that's what kind of the talk of the town. They just filed to get a bank charter in Utah. Utah is a big deal so far and so far apply, they've taken a step back because of some reputational risk issues but Utah is a big deal and that's good news for you. We talked about technology so hopefully if you have any questions about banking, technology, Utah's role, cyber, that's a huge issue with us, we'd love to hear your thoughts. >> As we start our question and answer. Just to kick us off, each of you are leaders within the banking industry and we're excited to have you part of our leadership forum and just to kick us off with our Q and A, what are some individuals or people, or even an individual person that has been influential to you in your own personal leadership, that was a leader to you growing up. If we could go through that and then as we do the Q and A, if you're a student, if you can stand up and say your name, your major and then as the questions are asked, not every one of you need to answer the question and then we'll go to that point about an individual that's a leader to you, that was influential to you, if we can go down the row. >> I've got the mic so I guess I'll start. As I came up today, I'd like to start thinking about, was all of the teachers and the professors that ended up being influential for my life and I ended up seeing his pictures out there on the wall saying, [inaudible] was an Economics professor and if you ever ridden the elevator up the business building with him, it was an ordeal but nonetheless, the way he explained things, was able to teach economics, be able to be related it to the real world, those type of people were the ones that really caught my attention. He was the one that came to mind when when I thought about that question. >> Early on in my career, again, trying to decide what I want to be when I grew up because that's kind of the question that we're all faced with and there's a little bit of me saying, what do I still want to be when I grew up type thing. But looking forward as far as what were my goal aspirations in my career and really seeking out the individual that I could mere my development up through, there was an individual credit administrator at Zions Bank. He was an old time banker he'd been with the bank for 40 some odd years and he'd seen the ups and downs and he had stories for everything basically. But, just seeking him out understanding that, that's what I want to aspire to be and he helped me to understand several things as far as, don't be an order taker, be a problem solver. The way you can really set yourself apart from others is not just come with problems, become a solutions. That's what really helped me. Just find a good mentor whether it be through the college, whether it be through your first job or what not. But just seek out those people that you want to aspire to become like. >> Mine would probably be someone who I've never met but it would be Jamie Diamond, who's the CEO of JP Morgan. I read a book when I was in school. I had a class that was taught by professor who used to work at JP Morgan and is called, "Tearing down the walls." and I would suggest if you haven't read it that you read, it's phenomenal. It goes through pretty much his journey on how he went through Citigroup, American Express, kind of had a falling out with with Sandy Weill at Citigroup and left and went to Bank One and there's a lot of speculation that the reason why JP Morgan bought Bank One was for Jammie Diamond to be CEO because he was that good. But just to read that book and see how influential he was and how great he is, even still today. He's the reason why I was able to buy my first house, is because my wife was crazy enough to let me invest everything that we had in JP Morgan stock and it just continues to do well so it would be him. >> Let's face it, none of us get through this thing called life by our own, on our own. We all need people, no matter on the personal side or the business side. We're the only major bank in the country who is run by a woman and we're the largest bank in the country. Our CEO, Beth Mooney, is an incredible person. When I said no twice to Key Bank, when they were calling me trying to get me to come over. Finally, they did something smart, they got me back to Cleveland, to our head office in Cleveland and they said, you interview them as much as they interview you. Well, my first interview of the day was with Beth Mooney. I already was pretty well, just thinking I'm just going to gain some competitive intelligence on Key Bank and go back to Wells Fargo and use that but as we sat down together, she said something to me that is just burned into my brain. She said, "Terry, life offers you opportunities every so often and usually the best opportunities come at the most inopportune time. It's what you do with those things that make it an inopportune time, that define you as a professional and as a person." and then she went on and she gave various examples in her life of how she got to become CEO of a major bank and it was just the worst times for the moves but she did them because she believed in what she was doing. I've always thought that, I've had some things going on in my personal life. This person, this Beth Mooney who I just adore and respect so much, she sent me a personal card. She went out and bought a card for the situation, wrote a personal note, send it to me from her home to my home. It made me realize that we have these relationships, these networks that we call professional networks and we go out, we try to meet people but at the end of the day is between two humans, is between person to person and if you can show as a leader, if you can show that humans side of you, that compassion, that caring for other people. That's what endears people to you as a leader not just a manager because of how you are in your organization but as a leader. >> When I started as an examiner and I don't know if you guys really even know what examiners do, basically travel around to different banks and really review, dig into everything they do, and hit at all the major risk, liquidity risk, credit risk, interest rate risk, review management operations, and can't get a little piece of every bank, of every area of banking. When I started there was this old examiner, [inaudible] and he really taught me a lot about getting past the numbers. Realizing that what shows up on a financial statement, or what shows up on a model output or something. It's only a little piece of the story, and really helped me develop that drive to get that personal relationship with that bank or get them to open up about what's going on, and be able to really dig passed, what the numbers say, and get into what's actually happened, what's driving these changes, what's causing this or that to happen. It's interesting whether you're talking about examining a financial statement or if you're a lender getting out and dealing with understanding your client's business and their needs, whatever. But it's really about those relationships. It really is about those relationships, and this examiner, he had been around the block for a 100 years actually, I think his whole career, I think he'd been examined for like 50 years. It was just incredible, but he had a story for everything and he really helped me understand that its regardless of what work you're doing, it's really about people. It's about making those relationships, and that has made all the difference in my career. >> That's excellent Knight. That's great advice and come to these things all the time and I'd encourage there's people up here talking and giving you advice, but what they're telling you to do is look at the person next to you. The greatest thing about college, or the people you're going to meet, and you're going to network, and become lifelong friends, and business partners, and achieve dreams together. Don't ever look past the people sit in that class next to you because they're the key to the greatest things in life. The great leader of my life is my dad and he's a distinguished graduate of Utah State, he's been honored. He loved this place and he taught me a lot of great things. But I think the thing that he told me before he passed was, he said never stopped taking risks. Is the most guys you meet, most guys that you interact with when they get to be about 40-45 years old, they're going to go into hunker down mode and stop taking risks and he said don't ever stop taking risks. It's always worth while, and it's based upon the notion that you fire your best shot and you never look back. It's the guys are looking back, and running the walls and have the bad things happens. You just fire your best shot knowing that you did the best you could and there's no reason to look back and think a lot about it. Look for the next opportunity, the next risk, and just keep moving forward. Taking what you learn here, taking all the unique creative attributes you have, and make the world a better place. I try to live my life that way. To the chagrin of a lot of people around me because I'm always trying new things and taking n w risks, but it's intoxicating. Let's get to question and answers. I'm anxious to hear what's on your minds. >> Hello, I'm Michael Bunner from Salt Lake City, Utah. I'm majoring in marketing and I'm minoring on entrepreneurship. Most of you have looked at multi-million dollar loans, we are bunch a college students here, that's a lot of money, and most of us start with something a lot smaller, but a lot of us still have big dreams and being in the part where you've seen the bigger picture down the line of where we might be in 10 or 20 or even more years. What is some advice on the next steps that we can take to maybe build our credit score. Things that we can be doing that's going to make us more qualified to reach these great dreams that we might have one day in the banking industry, or that the banking industry can fill? >> Anyone take that on? >> Well, I would say if you're talking about your personal credit score and your own individual credit worthiness and thing I would think, by far the best thing you can do is pay your bills on time. Just make those payments, and really be cautious when you before you sign the loan for that new car, before you sign alone on a house. Really think through the what ifs. Like, oh, I can make the payment, great now. But what if you lose your job? What if your job takes you to another city? Just walk through some of those what ifs before you take on those obligations that might end up bringing you to down later. Make sure you've got something set aside. >> Anybody else have advice on that? >> I'll just say that I've noticed you've got Amy and Kevin coming here very soon. I know both of those people very well. They are two great examples of individuals in our state, we have an incredible entrepreneurial spirit in this state. I think it happened when Mormons got kicked out so many places and had to keep on starting their businesses over and over again, and they landed here and we've had that entrepreneur spirit ever since in this state. It's an incredible culture better than anywhere I've ever been, and I got to say, I'm very pleased that you're in the entrepreneurial program because it instills in you this risk, and how to manage risk, and never stop taking them because those two individuals will tell you they started to other businesses that didn't do so well. But then they did start one that did really well. It comes down now from a banker's perspective. There's various things that we look at to become bankable. You've heard that term probably before, but there's other sources of capital to help you get up along the way and as you seek from anywhere from crowdfunding, which is a new one. There's a gentleman in our state, probably one the most, Devin Thorpe is his name, and Devin knows more about crowdfunding than probably anyone I know. He's spoke to the UN about it, he's written books about it, he's an incredible. But crap, that's one way. There's angel investors. I mean, there's a lot of sources of capital to start up that seed business that you need, and then as you start getting some momentum, you start needing some a little bit more of the services that we can provide here from our industry. You start out in the branches network with a business checking account, and getting some advice, and doing some things that you can move into business banking, commercial banking with your businesses, and where they can bring added value to you as your partner. Anyway, just think of a lot of different areas. Don't just think you have to get a bank loan when you first start out, but there's a lot of areas that you can tap into to start your business and then once it gets traction, we are your best partners, I promise you, and your cheapest partners. We don't need your equity. We don't need any of that stuff. We will be there. >> Yeah and I just add relationships. Again, if you look at the financial crisis like a game of musical chairs. When things collapsed. Again, the role the banks played, we are on the side with our customers. We weren't necessarily the ones creating the crisis, but we were there responding to the impacts of the crisis. The folks that had built the relationships with the banks, whether it started with a commercial checking account or a line of credit, loan that was paid on time. They always had a sit. But the people that moved around, and went from place to place, and always hunted for the, I'm going to save a quarter percent here, I'm going to remove this fee there and they move from place to place. They were the ones that didn't have a sit, when the music stopped. So financial relationships, develop them, and stick with them. It pays huge dividends. >> There is a question back here. >> My name is Joseph. I'm studying a master's in MIS. A lot of my interests come within business technology, Being in technology. The question I have is, well, these past five to 10 years in banking, technology has taken a huge step. Whether online banking or apps. The question I have for you guys, anyone. What is the next biggest step in banking in regards to technology, these next five to 10 years, specifically for customers. How are you going to improve that for customers? Curiosity. >> Hopefully this is helpful, but we're constantly looking at the amount of risk that we're comfortable taking without human eyes looking at alone so we can build this black box, if you will. If you're able to go through and check all these boxes, if your fico score is above a certain amount and you have diversified collateral, you're not concentrated in just one stock or something, then you know at what limit are we comfortable saying, yeah, we'll approve your loan. Is it $100,000, is it three million, is it five million? But the difference is that obviously now you need less people looking at loans, but also the customers are getting responses much quicker. You can submit an application and instead of waiting for that to go through the hands of different people to review and maybe someone stepping out and going to lunch or something and not getting back to you for hours or a day or two, the system just looks through it and responds immediately. While that can be dangerous for people who are in this industry, because you may be out of a job, you can also find jobs in analyzing what are the risks with using this new formula, with using the Black Box? Where are we comfortable looking at that? I think you said it was MIS? >> Mastered. >> Yeah. That's your world. We're working with people all the time that are writing code and looking at the parameters that we set up. How can they then deliver that for us? >> Howard's dad told him to go out and take risks, and that's one thing that bankers try to avoid. So I think the only thing I would add to what's been mentioned is that the next innovation is only going to come as fast as we're able to secure that channel. That's the two things that compete. I mean, there's plenty of ideas, biometrics, all kinds of things out there that we could dive into, but at the same time being able to secure, and deliver, and protect the funds, it's really what hinders that progress. So what it is, I guess I can't say. I'm not an IT guy that's going to be able to really reveal that, but that's the contest and the contention I guess, is those two things have to be balanced. Otherwise, we're not in the business of trying to lose money. >> Along those lines, we talk about risk and reputation. Risk has been mentioned a couple of times and you guys can probably all think of a company whose reputation has been tarnished because there's been a data breach. Somebody's credit card information has been stolen, somebody's account information has been leaked, credit scores, and what not. So that's a huge risk for banks. You haven't really heard big-name banks in the news because of that. Hopefully, that continues forever. Hopefully, I think that we're on the cutting edge of that as an industry of securing, there is data security, information security, but that's, I think for your generation moving forward, that's going to be a huge piece of that. We've got marketing people, we've got IT people, we've got all kinds of different people working on that. Of how do we solve the problem? How do we convince others that we've solved the problem? How do we market that? How do we take this technological security and make that our competitive advantage? >> It's a fascinating concept because what you're hearing is you can use technology to make things quicker, easier, more streamlined. But the more you do that, if you're not in that space, you got to have that personal relationship. It's like if you're outside that black box, then it makes that even more important. I don't think it diminishes that you want to have a financial institution or you want to look at those things that are out there that streamline this whole process that is banking, whether it's credit or securing assets and so forth, but you're still always going to have somebody that's outside that algorithm. You're going to want to talk to Dale and you're going to say, dude, I need this money and I'm worthy of it. I've always paid you on time. I don't know what the heck this algorithm is telling you, but I need this loan and I deserve that loan, and so it even becomes more important. The thing I hope you find exciting in this is that, it's true what Kyle say, the people who China or in Russia that want to hack into stuff, they want what we have and we are on the cutting edge. We are working day and night. We have the smartest folks in your field. Just to secure that into this point, we've done a heck of a good job and we're proud of that. Because ultimately, banking comes down to trust. You're not going to put your money into a bank that you can't trust. That's probably the biggest risk we face right now. That's new and hard and it's massive. I mean, there's people around the world, they're just trying to get into systems and we're putting up an equal and opposite battle. So we need the brightest minds in your field. So I hope you'll think about banking. Are there any other questions? >> I think we have time for just one more question. >> Terry, this is for you. You have a picture in your office, the black and white picture of the Twin Towers in New York City. I just wondered if we could just end with you maybe sharing that story with our students about what it means to you and you're experience that day. >> Thanks. That's a very personal thing and thanks for asking me that. I mentioned just briefly, I spent 10 years in Manhattan as a banker with two different banks. On September 11th, everyone remembers that day. I lost two very close friends in that tragedy. I oversaw for credibly in the securities, the investment banks, and the securities industry, and on a global basis. So where that was, the World Trade Center and the World Finance center right across the street. I had quite a few clients there and friends. In fact, I had a security card, so I didn't have to go through the security pass. The firm sponsored me and now I had my own world trade security bass. That day changed the innocence for our country and we realized that we can, here in the motherland, have some devastation that can happen to us. That day in Manhattan was a very unusual day. I remember the day, she's referring to a picture that I have carried with me since that day I was at Bank of New York on One Wall street and I was up in a gentleman's office and I was looking down over ground zero and it was still smoldering and they still had at that time, it was not trying to rescue anybody, but a recovery effort of any remains. So they had dogs sniffing, and it was just to stand there and just look right down from the office, right onto ground zero with a still smoldering and everything so fresh in your mind what just happened. People they had signs all over the place for their loved ones that were missing. No one knew they were alive or dead or what was happening. It was just such a touching time. I got to tell you, sometimes New Yorkers get a bad rap for being aloof and impersonal, but there was a coming together of people in that city that was incredible, that I've never felt before. It was just an incredible thing where we all and it's like American Sometimes we all rally, didn't we? We all came together. I walked out a bank in New York and there was a street vendor selling pictures of the Twin Towers and it was in black and white, I mentioned that, and I felt very black and white that day and I purchased that picture from that vendor. Then it ended up that I realized after a few days went by that two of my colleagues have perished. Everywhere I've gone now, every office, it hangs over my desk as a reminder for me of those two individuals and how we as Americans and New Yorkers, or whatever the case can all be on the same team. There's a lot of decisiveness right now in our country. But at the end of the day, we're all Americans. We all want to do the best thing. So that's what that reminds me, that picture, and very personal to me because when I look at that, I think of my two friends. >> Thank you so much for the questions and for the answers, and what a great way to finish off, Terry, thank you so much. Let's go ahead and give our panelists a round of applause. Can we?

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How to securely sign documents in a mobile browser How to securely sign documents in a mobile browser

How to securely sign documents in a mobile browser

Are you one of the business professionals who’ve decided to go 100% mobile in 2020? If yes, then you really need to make sure you have an effective solution for managing your document workflows from your phone, e.g., help me with industry sign banking idaho word later, and edit forms in real time. airSlate SignNow has one of the most exciting tools for mobile users. A web-based application. help me with industry sign banking idaho word later instantly from anywhere.

How to securely sign documents in a mobile browser

  1. Create an airSlate SignNow profile or log in using any web browser on your smartphone or tablet.
  2. Upload a document from the cloud or internal storage.
  3. Fill out and sign the sample.
  4. Tap Done.
  5. Do anything you need right from your account.

airSlate SignNow takes pride in protecting customer data. Be confident that anything you upload to your account is protected with industry-leading encryption. Intelligent logging out will protect your profile from unwanted access. help me with industry sign banking idaho word later out of your phone or your friend’s phone. Protection is key to our success and yours to mobile workflows.

How to eSign a PDF file with an iOS device How to eSign a PDF file with an iOS device

How to eSign a PDF file with an iOS device

The iPhone and iPad are powerful gadgets that allow you to work not only from the office but from anywhere in the world. For example, you can finalize and sign documents or help me with industry sign banking idaho word later directly on your phone or tablet at the office, at home or even on the beach. iOS offers native features like the Markup tool, though it’s limiting and doesn’t have any automation. Though the airSlate SignNow application for Apple is packed with everything you need for upgrading your document workflow. help me with industry sign banking idaho word later, fill out and sign forms on your phone in minutes.

How to sign a PDF on an iPhone

  1. Go to the AppStore, find the airSlate SignNow app and download it.
  2. Open the application, log in or create a profile.
  3. Select + to upload a document from your device or import it from the cloud.
  4. Fill out the sample and create your electronic signature.
  5. Click Done to finish the editing and signing session.

When you have this application installed, you don't need to upload a file each time you get it for signing. Just open the document on your iPhone, click the Share icon and select the Sign with airSlate SignNow option. Your sample will be opened in the app. help me with industry sign banking idaho word later anything. Additionally, making use of one service for all of your document management demands, things are faster, better and cheaper Download the app today!

How to eSign a PDF document on an Android How to eSign a PDF document on an Android

How to eSign a PDF document on an Android

What’s the number one rule for handling document workflows in 2020? Avoid paper chaos. Get rid of the printers, scanners and bundlers curriers. All of it! Take a new approach and manage, help me with industry sign banking idaho word later, and organize your records 100% paperless and 100% mobile. You only need three things; a phone/tablet, internet connection and the airSlate SignNow app for Android. Using the app, create, help me with industry sign banking idaho word later and execute documents right from your smartphone or tablet.

How to sign a PDF on an Android

  1. In the Google Play Market, search for and install the airSlate SignNow application.
  2. Open the program and log into your account or make one if you don’t have one already.
  3. Upload a document from the cloud or your device.
  4. Click on the opened document and start working on it. Edit it, add fillable fields and signature fields.
  5. Once you’ve finished, click Done and send the document to the other parties involved or download it to the cloud or your device.

airSlate SignNow allows you to sign documents and manage tasks like help me with industry sign banking idaho word later with ease. In addition, the safety of your information is priority. Encryption and private servers can be used as implementing the most recent functions in data compliance measures. Get the airSlate SignNow mobile experience and operate more efficiently.

Trusted esignature solution— what our customers are saying

Explore how the airSlate SignNow eSignature platform helps businesses succeed. Hear from real users and what they like most about electronic signing.

airSlate SignNow
5
Jennifer

My overall experience with this software has been a tremendous help with important documents and even simple task so that I don't have leave the house and waste time and gas to have to go sign the documents in person. I think it is a great software and very convenient.

airSlate SignNow has been a awesome software for electric signatures. This has been a useful tool and has been great and definitely helps time management for important documents. I've used this software for important documents for my college courses for billing documents and even to sign for credit cards or other simple task such as documents for my daughters schooling.

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Easy to use
5
Anonymous

Overall, I would say my experience with airSlate SignNow has been positive and I will continue to use this software.

What I like most about airSlate SignNow is how easy it is to use to sign documents. I do not have to print my documents, sign them, and then rescan them in.

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Easiest thing everrr
5
Anonymous

I use it once a month to sign my loan agreements and it makes things so much better easier.

This software makes it super easy to sign agreements, documents, or confidential papers over email due to the social distancing.

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Frequently asked questions

Learn everything you need to know to use airSlate SignNow eSignatures like a pro.

How do i add an electronic signature to a word document?

When a client enters information (such as a password) into the online form on , the information is encrypted so the client cannot see it. An authorized representative for the client, called a "Doe Representative," must enter the information into the "Signature" field to complete the signature.

How to sign pdf on window?

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How do you know an electronic signature is real?

That you have the signature of an actual person that signed it. And, of course, I do. Because that's the thing about an electronic signature. If you can't prove with something else that you were the actual person who actually signed it or that your physical signature is there, it becomes a fraud. That is, unless you could get a court to sign off on it, where the court would basically rule this electronic signature is a real signature, even if the electronic signature looks real to you. You can't be sure. It's like the difference between a hologram and a hologram. It doesn't matter who put it there. They don't have to show a real hand to make it work. So, if you sign an electronic signature, if that person can't provide proof that the signature is theirs, it becomes fake. It becomes fraud. So, in the case of electronic signatures, and there's an entire case that's been pending in the court for about ten years about, what to do about them, the judge actually said there was enough evidence in that case, which is sort of an interesting precedent for a lot of these kinds of cases. If you can show a court that an electronic signature can be faked, you could get a court ruling to allow you to make a copy of that signature and prove that the signature is fake. So that would solve that particular problem. It's not a complete fix by any stretch of the imagination, but it would solve that particular issue. So that would really solve one of the two problems, because then you could us...