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[Music] good morning good afternoon good evening everyone depending on where in the world you are following us today my name is mario martone and i'm a theoretical physicist at the simon center for geometry and physics in new york and i'm also co-founder and leader of scientists for palestine the organizations that has the pleasure of organizing today's incredible webinar discussing the challenges and opportunities for science in the west bank and gaza which opens the second day of the science technology and human rights 2020 conference organized by the aaas which we thank deeply for the opportunity that they give us today so before we start the incredible discussion today i want to just give you a few slides a few information about scientists for palestine the organizations that i'm part of so science for palestine was created in 2015 by the collective theoretical physicists and grew in just five years into an organization to nearly a hundred members worthwhile and our main goal is it's uh can be summarized in these few words that we want to promote science and support the integration of the occupied palestinian territories in the international scientific community what do we do well we have organized multiple things we have done a series of palestinian advanced physics schools that have been tremendously successful uh the first one was in 2016 at the arab american university at university in the west bank we had two more in 2017 and 2019 and we have many more organized for the future the first we're in physics but we hope to really branch out in in many other uh subjects we also organize uh incredibly successful international meetings on science and palestine the first one in january 2018 at the university of cambridge in the uk then in november 2018 at columbia university in new york here in new york where i am right now and then in 2020 at the massachusetts institute of technology that has seen many of the panelists that we have today we really hope that this can uh can grow decide this international kind of effort in bringing together scientists from all over the world really with the hope of uh of making a difference in this topic that we're going to discuss later today well we have long-term goals we're ambitious we think big and uh we've done webinar series in this uh new uh zoom word we live in but we also have uh you know big plans for when uh hopefully we'll resume to normal interactions and uh we organize mentorship and exchange programs for policing students scholarship programs and then promote business innovation entrepreneurship and and many many more we also have constantly uh discuss what internationally uh also the politics a little bit the challenges that policy and science has faced which was we think is a key part of the of the issue so let me get into uh you know geared towards our discussion today and introduce a few words of our incredible panelists we really are incredibly grateful for for the four panelists that we have today and that agreed on on having this amazing presentation so let's start with uh dr samar jabra who is a psychiatrist who practices in east jerusalem and the west bank and she currently is the head of the mental health unit within the palestinian ministry of health she start internationally and locally and she will discuss today the question of professional solidarity a mental health unit and mental health in palestine then tarak lubani is a canadian doctor as he likes to call himself as a palestinian refugee in canada he was born in kuwait and is currently an associate professor at the western ontario university and associate scientist at lawson health research institute lubani also is the medic director of an incredible project which we'll discuss today which is called glia glia pioneer the use of 3d printing to develop high quality but basically nearly free and open medical devices that are crucial in areas like gaza and other world zones we also have professor rana zamara from the west bank she's an associate professor the faculty of agriculture and science and tech technology at the policy and technical university of haduri and she's also a member of palace the palestinian academy for science and technology and a leading member for what concerns international bridges between palestine and universities in europe and the us she will discuss um these topics later with us and then finally professor george smith who is an emeritus professor of biological sciences at the university of missouri uh he won the number he shared the nobel prize for chemistry in 2018 for the development of this technology called the face display despite the nobel prize he wants to remark that he's not yet a chemist so even if uh one that come a nobel prize in chemistry that doesn't make him a chemist and he's been involved in supporting his policy and scientists remarkably for a person of his structure for many many years and will open up our discussion basically discussing what our role is in all this struggle finally um i want to remark that you know one of the key part of centers for palestine is action we really are all about trying to make an impact so please please uh get involved we hope to for instance one of the things that can come out from this meeting is either science the the magazine that prestigious science magazine is led by the american association for events and of science to actually take on this issue but also we want many of you that are following us today to follow up this discussion with getting involved with many of the things that we're going to discuss so if you want to even discuss with us or even reach out to our panelists today please email us at the email here following us on our website we have a very very active facebook account and get involved great so um getting towards the discussion um before we just open it i want to um just say a few words about how this or does this uh discussion is going to be organized it's very simple we're going to have a first part in which each one of our panelists will have a presentation a short presentation this should last longer than 20 minutes and then we'll leave a lot of time for our panelists to address your questions we want to make this meeting as interactive and as engaging for you guys that are listening to us today as possible so without further ado i want to start with uh our first esteem panelist george um so maybe you can start and and just set up the stage and ask and tell us what in your perspective is the relationship between us u.s based political scientists and policy and scientists george the floor is yours uh well we're we're colleagues of course we're all part of the great global community of science but there's something special about science in the west bank and gaza which is the reason that it's in a conference on science and human rights so [Music] so let's start with the west bank um so the west bank uh there are in the west bank there are three million uh palestinians who since 1967 have lived under a harsh israeli military dictatorship uh that uh there are uh also with them seven hundred thousand israeli jewish settlers in hundreds of uh jewish uh settlements on stolen land uh and this uh this occupation this uh this uh military dictatorship has featured especially relentless attack on academic freedom over the entire time and i know that uh samara who experience this at first hand we'll talk about that so moving on to gaza i've used my special powers to create a new island in the eastern mediterranean called detroit with the same size and shape of uh as gaza and this is to um this is to emphasize that gaza is no bigger than the city of detroit but it has three times the population two million palestinians who now are imprisoned in a huge concentration camp and i'm using the term concentration camp not in the sense of the nazi death camps but this was originally used in the boulevard wars a place to warehouse unwanted people that you don't that you can't expel and you don't dare kill um since 2007 it's been subjected to a crippling military blockade enclosed by israel and egypt and just to give you an idea of what that blockade is like israel allows a single truckload of goods in the gaza strip per year for every 40 dozens i don't know what the what that the number is in for the city of detroit but i'm sure it's at least one truckload per year for every citizens citizen of detroit and uh since 2007 israel has launched three savage military assaults uh using advanced weapons supplied by and partly paid for by our own country the us so i just would like to emphasize that we us scientists are influential citizens of the indispensable enabler of this oppressive regime it's on us to help palestine liberate itself from this oppressive regime and especially liber in in particular liberate its scientific culture thank you thanks a lot george for this incredibly powerful uh presentation um this really set up the stage you hear uh maybe summer you uh i mean of course you've experienced firsthand the situation that george has briefly outlined and in particular i mean regarding mental health and you have tried so much to build international uh collaborations and networks of solidarities despite uh the oppression maybe would you would you mind telling us more about it somehow we can't hear you uh you have to unmute yourself yes i'm trying to share my screen but i don't know if can you see the screen or not yet not yet but um take your time i'm sure that our audience will be passionate and it's not paired by anyone else i let me make sure because i'm trying to share it and for some reason i can't share it no worries we have we have time to um to wait for longer too um what's uh what's the problem is there anything we can try to address it live uh so maybe i can you have a copy of my slides can you share them or shall i uh present without sharing the slides uh is that is your share button not working or yeah i click on the share button but it's not sharing okay let me immediately try to address that okay i think it's working now right so uh sana okay noah thank you very much i'm happy to be with you today and to talk to you about profession about the challenges for mental health workers about professional solidarity as an intervention for collective trauma and fragmentation in palestine let me start by explaining the challenges for mental health workers it has been claimed that among countries in the eastern mediterranean region the country with the greatest burden of morbidity due to mental illness is palestine in another study published by who 2019 before the covet mental illness is one of the most significant public health challenges in palestine due to the context of chronic occupation and the exposure to violence palestine suffers from fragmentation of services given the geographical and political fragmentation in gaza jerusalem and west bank in the west bank there is area a and b and c and the health system is fragmented due to that palestine experiences a shortage of mental health personnel we have for example 10 psychiatrists for 2 million people in gaza 22 psychiatrists for 3 million people in in the west bank and there is a dominance of the biomedical model that pathologizes suffering individuals and ignores power dynamics and collective aspects of our experience ngos exhibit a misunderstanding of the meaning of neutrality and impartiality and perceive political activism incompatible with professionalism in mental health so our vision we believe that human rights and are essential to mental health mental health professionals must play a role in highlighting human rights violation in palestine especially in light of our commitment to our public health agenda and the moral responsibilities inherent in our professionalism simply in the field of medicine when we get a child who is abused we do the necessary medical procedure to treat the effects of the abuse but also we have the moral responsibility to inform the authorities to cry against the abuse and stop the abuse and the same goes for a mental health suffering we do the necessary work to to to treat the effect of uh human right violation but we should be vocal about human rights violation in palestine so our alternative intervention of course we do we do the classical work in mental health we have a psychiatric hospital community mental health centers many ngos in the field of mental health but we have also created networks in solidarity with palestine that have been established in the field of mental health over the past six years each network operates independently in different countries but they communicate to share ideas and strategies supporting the vision of palestine global mental health network and here is an image of the different logos of the networks and the outstanding one is the palestine global mental health network but there are networks of professional solidarity in the usa in the uk in south africa ireland france and belgium how do the networks intervene they intervene by hosting conferences and publishing statements to publicize the impact of the occupation on the well-being of palestinians by organizing professional study tours to palestine holding seminars and film screenings contributing to both the academic literature and public media with a literature regarding palestinian mental health addressing the process of normalization of the occupation that occurs when international mental health conferences are held in israel and countering attempts to whitewash colonialism such as the courses in cultural sensitivity offered by ariel university which is established in a settlement the settlement of ariel in the west bank and the erp conference in tel aviv so in reaction to the er conference in reaction to the er conference um we issued a collective statement by all the networks and other supporting organizations um and erp is the association for relational psychoanalysis and psychotherapy um we thought and stated that uh holding the conference in tel aviv lends legitimacy to israel's innumerable violation of human rights we understand very well the impact on mental health of oppression political struggle economic constraints and war we therefore appeal for individuals federations unions and institutions not to participate in the art meeting and instead to condemn it because meetings like that they prevent palestinians and friends of palestine from having access and participating in an international conference they get deported when they arrive to the airport and palestinians need permission which requires acknowledging israel as a controlling power over palestinian land the significance of our interventions although these networks began as professional groups focused on the violation of human rights satisfied they have a broad human dimension the networks make a contribution to the theory of anti-colonial psychology and establish practical best practice parameters for community psychology in the context of political violence the networks contribute to the globalization of palestinian knowledge and experience and provide professional solidarity which is validating for palestinian public and it provides support to palestinian clinicians and let me share a few images from uh the activities of the networks in london here and in chicago and this is a a conference a panel that was made for palestine in the same hotel where the er conference in new york took place last year so there was a parallel panel on palestine voices on palestine and this is a conference held by the belgium group in brussels last year as well some useful links for you thank you very much for listening thanks a lot sama um we will for for the audience don't worry if you haven't uh written down the contacts we will uh make them available uh once the once the meeting ends before i move to the next panelist i just want to remind everybody that is listening right now that um it's you can ask you can start asking questions there's a team of us that is collecting questions uh so if you have if you have something on your mind just get it out and send it to us uh so that we can uh already start processing them and uh be ready to ask them to our panelists and not waste any time so having said that um rana i would like o uh pass the mic to you and uh again you have been incredibly involved in uh in in this incredibly increasing these incredible programs which are the international science bridges which have created lots of opportunities for palestinian scientists to go up around but also you have leaved the experience of doing being a scientist a prominent scientist in the occupation so maybe you can put these two things together and tell us a little bit what is your perspective on this yeah uh good morning good afternoon good evening for who wherever you are thank you mario for the introduction and thank you very much for the triple a s for inviting us for this panel session um i work at uh as an associate professor at palestine technical university haduri and i would like to start with talking about my perspective as a researcher and a scientist working in academia and palestinian university a little bit of the history on kaduri or palestine technical university kadur institute was first established as an agricultural college in 1930 and the the the donation was from sir elias kaduri uh who happened to be an er iraqi jewish jude and he was established this school for the palestinian from to 1994 it had been developed into agricultural college agricultural institute technology college in uh 27 it had been approved to be the first state university in west bank in 2017 another two branches in ramallah and in hebron uh were added to palestine technical university palestine technical university kaduri is located into karem and from my experience in 20 2015 we have um a live confrontation for more than 82 days with the military of israel we have a live training camp on site of on our camp and starting from october till the end of december early january we have a daily confrontation with the military and that has resulted in more than 350 classes have been cancelled and exams have been postponed more than 100 of students have suffered from suffocation and more than 70 students have injured either with live bullets or with rubber bullet miscarriages we have to evacuate the university for more than once and as you can see here our greenhouses facilities have been turned down and burned bullets have been shoot around the university for more than 82 days despite that uh with the help of palestine academy for science and technology which which is a national independent self-governing institution that catalyzed the development of science and technology in palestine they have to er to empower the effect of the deployment of levels in human development and social sciences so palace have been a partnership with international association like in frederick newman foundation euless research center to found the research to quebec united nation united shares to do development and these partners have been working with palest in association with the palestinian university in west bank and gaza to develop a partnership and program that are most likely science bridges uh science society expatriate program exchange program one of the successful program that we have been running from since 2016 is the german science uh palestinian science bridge funded by the german ministry of higher education it's run for four years and we have another extension for another four years the the purpose of these signs of bridge is to exchange between scientists with german with more than 10 host institutions in germany and 13 local universities in palestine a phd student goes finish their phd master student staff exchange and the other program which is the the quebec science bridge was which is funded also by the founder of quebec goes the same 12 institution from quebec invited palestinian institution and scientists to visit for a short period of time to conduct their scientific research in in health in cultural society and natural sciences so most of these projects enhance the capacity of the palestinian scientists students undergrads and um other uh research cluster to be able to maintain and sustain their research in in a high standard and prestigious uh institution around the world the future of the science of bridges now the palace is working with the french academy of science the french national center of scientific research national research agency french ministry of higher education to build more collaborate and more uh fund for uh other french signs of bridge with palestine and there is a russian academy with science i have been working with palace also to to further uh and conduct some kind of channel between the two academy and the czech academy of science with this i conclude my talk thank you for listening thank you rana you know we know that these international bridges you know we personally have been in touch with many of the students that now we're in i've personally been so it's really you know these things that really have transformed the prospects of many many palestinian students so you know i really think this is i mean just from my side you have great respect and keep keep up keep up with the hard work so uh we want to get to the last speakers tarek lubani from canada with this beautiful uh fire place i don't know if it's real or fake but it's beautiful nevertheless and uh tariq well you know i've gave you a little bit of an introduction but you know many of our speakers maybe know you already but there's so much more to say you've been shot in your leg while you were doing first you were providing first assistance during the march of return in gaza uh one of and and you've done so many things in your life that is hard to keep track so maybe you can try in a few minutes to to give us your perspective and what you have learned in those amazing experiences um yes thank you so much uh mario i really appreciate uh the introduction so basically we all kind of know the story of of gaza i'm going to talk a little bit more about gaza because that's my experience and so we've seen the trouble of the wars and all of the issues but in gaza what we had done is we looked at the world around us that was improving in so many ways and we thought can we have a piece of that you know absolute poverty is down child labor is down under five mortality is down guinea worm is down teen births are down homicide rates are down violent crime is down education is up literacy is up and we couldn't help but think to ourselves why can't we have a piece of what's happening in the world around us and the conclusion that we had to come to is that really instead of researchers and scientists being there for the people we had become these intellectual mercenaries for product teams you know there to solve immediate needs this is a phenomenon in medicine as much as it is anywhere else in the world and we really wanted to do something different for me it really came down to trying to solve a problem that i was seeing around me in the hospital i'm an emergency physician i want to solve emergency medical problems and so we brought in some 3d printers these are the three first 3d printers in the gaza strip the one to the left was was brought in and then it printed the other two which then printed subsequently about 100 more printers this is the first effort at a stethoscope head that we had made and then uh of course we finally ended up getting some models that we were eventually able to prove worked as well as the litman cardiology 3 which is a 300 stethoscope the glia model costs only three dollars and then after that we really looked at a few other projects and managed to work on a pulse oximeter this is the very first version of one that basically picks out the oxygen levels and then we kept iterating it up iterating until we hit this particular model which costs 25 instead of about a thousand dollars and allows us to look at and work on uh everything that uh that that we need to in terms of oxygen supply we've started clinically testing it now you can see this gentleman has an oxygen saturation of 66 and all the early data looks phenomenal so then we started working on tourniquets this happened because we knew that gaza is a place with war a place that would need tourniquets especially and as we started printing them we ended up running into this basically the protests in which people were getting shot in their limbs this child ended up with an amputation and as you can see there nobody really knew what to do about the situation this in contrast is a patient who ended up keeping his foot and also survived without very much blood loss and he ended up i was just off screen there ended up being able to apply the tourniquet to him you can sort of see here um that very often in this particular case because we know that there are protests happening there are peop medical personnel who are there there's two victims there who are shown by the red arrows you can see the blue error points to the bullet wound or the bullet hit on the ground after it goes through them and there's a medic just off to the right of the screen who's right there and able to apply the tourniquet very quickly this is kind of what it looks like in the field this particular tourniquet was during our testing so i and of course we we do training in the field uh the tourniquet works quite well but the thing about science and palestine and especially in the gaza strip is that it is very very different because of the risks this photo was taken just two days before some of the major protests on may 14 2018 there was another protest that we all attended this was part of the rescue team i'm in the blue there and unfortunately of this photo four people were shot within two days this was one of the paramedics who was shot in the ankle and subsequently ended up with severe infections and can no longer work and in this photo both of the people there were shot and the one on the right uh ended up getting killed so the costs of course are heavy and these are incredibly difficult situations that we have to deal with where we're trying to develop devices that fortunately we don't have to deal with in canada um when musa was shot of course had we been able to access him we would have been able to help resolve the issue he had what's called a pneumothorax a eminently fixable problem what it really comes down to is that in in medicine we have to develop medical devices we need these devices so that we can take care of our patients and the glia project really tries to bring home uh the the fact that technology has developed so that we can make these devices for a much lower cost for our patients unfortunately there are costs and lots of human costs and that's i think the key thing that we're trying to prevent thank you thanks to uh well uh thank you so much for the presentation and sharing this you know terrible stories which unfortunately are i know that you don't want to share them but then essential to really understand to understand what it's like to do science in palestine so we want to now open the the second part of the of the presentation and again we let me ask people to again remind you that you should submit questions so we can start you know have as many uh input from you guys attending and listening as possible uh so i would like to move on to the first question um is this coming up okay and uh this i will actually to direct you to that to george uh if i may and and there's this notion of normalization which i'm sure many people might not be familiar with it would just start with the notion of peace process maybe george you can elaborate on this and how that you know how this notion of normalization and you know the news about peace process with israel and other other countries neighboring countries affect science and palestine in particular i know that you uh you you're very familiar with an article that recently was published in in nature with a very prominent science magazine which really didn't do a great service to provide kind of inaccurate situations and there is also an either more absurd and kind of extreme uh example which is the example of aerial university mentioned in passing by sama a university which is built in the occupied policy and territories and is keep referring as israel in even prestigious uh international magazines so maybe you can elaborate how this lack of accurate information and actually depiction of reality impacts us all and in particular our colleagues in palestine and their ability to to do science well if we have another hour and a half i can begin uh but sama has already brought this said picked up when she was talking about ngos and meetings in tel aviv and so on so normalization really refers to events that legitimize this oppressive regime by hiding it from view so making this seem like a completely normal situation when normal relationship between the oppressor and the oppressed when it's absolutely abnormal that's the general idea of of of what we object to in this kind of event normalization events that hide the oppressed the oppress the oppression and make it seem like it's normal it's every day it's something that's completely acceptable so the peace process let's not talk first about the peace process but about the normalization that we've seen just uh recently with these supposed uh peace accords between israel and bahrain and the united arab emirates uh these are peace accords between uh israel and two really uh allies of israel that israel is not uh is been at peace with all along and that's because these uh gulf monarchies these uh this dictatorships have long seen israel as a a partner for gaining weapons and as for joining them in their joint uh effort to reduce the influence of iran this has nothing to do with uh with peace but it makes it seem like peace it makes it seem like we're making progress and um and the nature article that you referred to was an article that was uh it was praising the uh new opportunities for science uh for uh for science between palestine and the gulf monarchies um that result from this kind of accord this is not something we should be uh praising as as u.s scientists or western scientists this is something we should be uh arguing against this is this is not liberation it is hiding oppression um the peace process is a completely different thing the peace process is has been a cover uh a very thin veneer of of progress towards peace over a system that has allowed the progressive dis dispossession of the palestinian people to uh progress and this has happened in the west bank with more and more settlements uh more and more uh caging in of palestinian people more and more dispossession removing them from places that israel wants into other places and this is absolutely not a a peace process the oslo accords uh were a trap for for the palestinian people and it was it was a trap that um that we should be ashamed that we were that our country was one of the chief sponsors for thanks george um of course um if i may if there's no other uh inputs from the for my panelists i'll move to the next question since we have a lot of questions coming up uh which i uh need to be taught if you can take this one uh we got it from our audience that says that human rights include freedom of speech freedom off and from religion lgbtq and uh and just clarify on on those human rights yeah absolutely i mean this these are when when people talk about human rights in gaza the west bank and palestine whatever the term is usually i would say in israel and palestine they're talking about all of the human rights every single one of them and i i think in terms of these um these particular issues sometimes what we hear is them being used as a cudgel against people who are advocating for freedom from occupation so people say oh well i mean you're talking about human rights but what about the gay rights situation in israel and palestine well i was jailed in egypt and the person i went to jail with was a big gay rights activist because we were going into gaza to work on a gay rights project um yeah i get it there there's a huge need for work on gay rights issues but if you look at gay rights and sexual diversity groups like a health center for example in in the west bank what do they ask for and then to the occupation and when you look at people who talk about freedom of religion what do they ask for and then to the occupati n 30 percent of palestinians are christian and so they're not interested in islamic extremism any more than i am or any of us are when we talk about freedom of speech and some of the authoritarian tendencies of the palestinian authority in the west bank or hamas of gaza what do those groups ask for uh the groups for human rights they ask for an unto the occupation so none of us are saying that that these things aren't important or that we can't work on them concurrently we can and we are um but at the same time it makes it really really hard to deal with with the various fires that exist when there's this other almost all consumed rage um that's happening this when basically you can't guarantee that you're going to be alive tomorrow your house isn't going to be bombed so these rights are absolutely critical but the main reason why people have so zoomed in on ending the occupation is because it really underlies and overarches almost all of the other issues that exist thanks tariq uh i want to move to the next question which i would like to address to summa um you you have talked about this incredible network international networks of professional solidarity and all these concepts which are key really in envisioning a different dimension of what it looks like to collaborate internationally beyond kind of charity and really be at the same level um so we would like to know more about how this works and in particular again since there's a lot of people here in the audience that are part of the other side here in the us that might be interested in helping us developing further uh these ideas how's this funded i mean unfortunately you know today's work money and the way uh things getting good buy is through money and again this is for you sama but i mean if rana has some uh some remarks also on the way in which science bridges are funded that will also be great somehow the networks are not funded at all they depend on voluntary bases people who take part of them they give a lot of their time uh when there are uh necessary costs uh for some brochures for some publications people volunteer uh to pay for the the coast we are very uh economic in in the way we spend money we rarely spend money uh but when we need to spend money people usually who are active in these networks they provide money because they depend in their usual active activities in in their usual living on other jobs that they are doing uh with the institutions all the work of the network is pro bono and voluntary work and that frees us from a a many restrictions the problem with ngos is that you work you get paid nicely but if you want to um voice your political opinion about certain matters uh there is a a glass ceiling and your job will be affected and you might use lose your your job uh the network give a uh a bigger horizon for for us to express our thoughts and our activities thanks so much this is uh very shocked rana do you want to add a few words about the science bridges or yeah sure well the science bridges are funded the the palestinian german science bridge is funded by the ministry of higher education the german ministry of higher education and research and the the quebec science bridge was funded by the research uh the center of the uh scientific research in quebec and it's also funded by the government so both the bridges are funded by either the german or the the quebec government thank you and i and the german as as far as i remember the the german agreement is kind of the order of five million euros is that right the first call was for uh five and we have another five million euros for the until 2824. great thanks a lot this uh uh so can we move to the i'd like to move to the next question which is another question that came from our audience rana i would like to uh direct it to it to you um and uh maybe you can elaborate on how much pure science uh that's the thing new year to me i'm a mathematical physicist doesn't get more pure than that is uh is done in the west bank and for example is there any theoretical physics pure math astronomy any of that that is uh that is uh done in the west bank in gaza also if you if you have some information about it well finally that you mentioned because the the german science bridge also have been established by a physicist and uh and people from mathematics and pure science so the first uh project was most of the projects that have been conducted with these the palestinian and the german uh scientists where either theoretical physics um thermodynamics all these pure science basically in in the field of physics math engineering chemistry and now there are a lot of uh research done in palestine in both the uh and these um sciences and um during the the projects that have been run there was a lot of summer school and winter school for undergrad and graduate student in um theoretical physics and nanotechnology and even for a student at school student there was um that steam program that's runs through the uh the summer for uh the grade from grade 10 till grade 12 for student in palestinian university and most of the projects that have been started and established in palestine in this field are either in this field and a lot of training workshop also focused on the theoretical physics and for the pure science in physics and math and chemistry so even in west bank i know that some of the uh the project have been carried up visually uh with a university from gaza the islamic university and al-aqsa university so yeah a lot of the uh the the research incurred out in palestine in west bank and gaza uh most of the active the active uh work in this even with the french uh uh the french national research center there is a lots of work with different and university uh they have a team that could operate with sesame in jordan and um in in france to conduct a lot of um work on the field of uh nuclear and uh none um on physics and stuff like that so in these fields we have a lot of um research in pure science yeah right can i add a quick comment to that mario um which is that i as a person who really only works in applied sciences and not just applied but clinical sciences it was always amazing to me to go to a place like gaza literally with you know sort of rubble all around and my only conclusion is that theoretical scientists will always do theoretical science stuff so it's amazing and really heartwarming to see how much of that is going on even the place like gaza where you might not expect that thanks daddy and that was my experience too when we organized our schools i was really impressed about how incredible the palestinian scientists were and we our schools were on theoretical physics cosmology and things like that um great so let's move uh to another question that came out uh from uh the the audience this is directed to you dr jaber you talked about the responsibility to treat and also to inform authorities regarding human rights abuses which if any authorities you trust that's a heavy question i i don't i don't need to trust authorities in order to inform them i can still inform them and challenge them and uh it depends on which situation i'm confronted with so for example when i'm confronted with a patient who is a victim of torture i do the right documentation and i inform ngos that work for the rights of tortured individuals when it's a question of gender-based violence i inform the family protection unit within the palestinian system i i brought this parallel in in my discussion discussion because the networks inform the public educate the public about the impact of the violation of human rights on the psychological well-being and the suffering of palestinians that's the kind that's the activity that is parallel to our daily efforts uh in in our practice in medicine and in psychiatry and mental health professions to encounter uh a people who suffer because of the system they are the identified patient of of the system there is an external pressure out of the self who is causing the suffering for these people so we do the necessary treatment for the individual but we need to say something about the gender-based violence uh the oppression of the system uh the uh patriarchy of the tribe that is forcing the individual to do this and that the torture that the person is exposed to so it depends on which situation i'm confronted with uh it's very important to honestly uh document that situation and not limit our intervention uh to the soothing of the individual and forgetting about the ongoing machine that creates that pathology and that suffering to individuals thank you so much for the clarity and the great answer um let's move on and again i'll ask the the audience to keep sending us question uh that our speakers will be would love to address any any doubts you have any comments and questions uh george i would like to send to to post the next question to you uh people probably might be uh might be wondering how did you get involved in palestine issues and uh what things you've done what are you what's been your experience and what do you think uh scientists western scientists fashion can do well um personally i came to this from a jewish point of view i'm a member of jewish voice for peace i should say that i'm not a jew but i'm jewish meaning that i'm married into a jewish family and i'm and uh it's my uh adoptive uh one of my most important adoptive uh communities in the us um but uh when i became really interested in uh jewish issues especially when our kids were preparing for their bat mitzvahs uh i started being educated by about what's happening in palestine i was really appalled and it seemed like like a blot on um on um judaism in general to to be willing to accept this so that was my that was my introduction and i would say that i probably read overwhelmingly jewish writing on this on this issue and you might be surprised to know some people might be surprised to know that it's by no means anything like uniformly supportive of the oppressive regime in uh in palestine and uh i'm sorry what's the last part of that question it's not on the screen the last part of that question is uh so what have you done so far and what can scientists can do what science international scientists especially western scientists can do from your perspective well um i think that mario you and the in the um uh scientists for palestine it really brought me in as a scientist to this so that's a very new part of my uh of my activism but i've been uh an activist for the boycott divestment and sanctions movement which is kind of you might say an anti-normalization movement in the united states and um i was um a co-founder of uh our local um organization on this uh mid missourians for justice in palestine our university is in the middle of uh of uh the state of missouri that's what we call ourselves mid-missourians for justice in palestine so that's been a um you know a strong interest of mine for about more than 10 years a lot more than 10 years more like 20 years thanks a lot george uh so um let's go to another questions that i would like to direct to tarek um specific about kobe 19 how does it affect palestine right now and as far as i remember you guys are launching golia is launching a a project to try to help address the the carbon crisis in gaza uh thailand uk if you can elaborate on this that's yes so we have obviously a situation that is a tinderbox for covet in both the west bank and in the gaza strip it's bad for palestinians it's bad for israelis it's bad for the rest of the world it's bad for everybody um but unfortunately right now the the israelis and i guess the egyptians have to take some blame for this haven't really allowed uh the gaza strip to respond in in a way that we all know so for example ppe is basically unavailable in the gaza strip right now which is incredible so uh masks are not available n95s i mean forget about it you could probably easier get i don't know a nuclear bomb than an m95 at this point into a place like the gaza strip so what glia has done is we've started two main projects one of them is to 3d print and create some of the ppe that we already know how to make like face shields of course everybody's trying to bring in surgical masks and then the other piece of the project we had started developing in around march april a n95 reusable respirator which we are then able to produce in a place like gaza but that has some requirements and those requirements mean that we end up having some difficulties um so it's quite hard to to create it there with the project we're going to be fundraising some money doing some research there and figuring it out the goal of course is to try to prevent this uncontrolled outbreak that's happening right now in the gaza strip there's one to 200 cases per day we're detecting around 100. the west bank has an uncontrolled outbreak as well at the moment in which literally dozens or hundreds of people are dying so it's it's definitely a problem and it doesn't look like it's going to end anytime soon thanks eric uh somehow do you want to add something to to to this point yes actually um in in my role as the head of the mental health unit i've been closely involved in the committee that is dealing with this situation in the west bank and there was an alarming rise in september in the number of cases there was a 40 percent rise while in gaza the rise was a 84 in september and parallel with the spread of the virus there is a mental health situation that is becoming worse and worse on the top of other crises that i explained earlier i think we are seeing new kind of patients who get sick for the first time during the covet 19 and usually it's due to the economic situation and the further limitations and restrictions that are imposed by the situation uh in again i want to refer to the fragmented health system in different areas as a main obstacle for the palestinian authority to do uh their work uh in in the field of of health and so while kovid 19 spread and there were calls to free prisoners by the united nations there were more palestinians going to prison the home demolition continued in the west bank and in jerusalem during covet 19 while the international messages were stay at home there were homes being demolished in in palestine and yet international media and united nations were talking about the good conduct of israelis in helping the palestinian authority during that time and they were referring to the return of some tax money to the palestinian authority during the the crisis while which is a false charity uh and allowing some uh medical equipment to arrive to the airport by that was ordered by who and some uh to facilitate some of the funds by by qatar uh i just want to remind that according to geneva convention the uh an occupying authority is responsible for the health and the well-being of people under occupation so there was no charity and no good deeds where that were done during that time thanks rana um we have uh with a few more questions uh the next one uh george since you mentioned it maybe you should be the one uh uh following up on this uh there was uh a question from the audience that asked if you could a lot please comment on the campaign for an academic boycott of israel well um every israeli academic institution is complicit in the occupation and other aspects of dispossession and oppression in the palestinian people um that doesn't mean that individual uh academics in israel are some of them are actually our allies in this campaign uh so the academic boycott of israel uh boycotts complicit ins uh institutions so that means don't go to the meetings don't go to their meetings if they try to co-sponsor a meeting in our in our country we should protest against that we should protest against any kind of cooperative uh arrangement between our academic institutions and academic institutions in in israel that's it's it's a a boycott of complicit institutions not of ins of individuals and i uh personally collaborate with a number of uh have collaborated with the number of israeli academics so that in short is the academic boycott of uh israel so maybe george sorry about to follow up with this but maybe you can make clear to the audience without the you know boycott until what in the secure dema ds of the of this boycott and you can elaborate on on what other demands just to elaborate what are exactly the demands of the of this boycott campaign just to clarify for the audience what you know until i i'm sorry what are the what of the campaign the the demand demands what is the demands of the boycott oh the demand oh yes okay okay the demand of the uh of the boycott movement in general and the academic boycott in particular is that um the occupation come to an end the the police state or the the military dictatorship come to an end in the occupied palestinian territories that the um that the uh palestinian citizens of israel we haven't talked about them but they have lived under a um a highly discriminatory regime since 1948 they are the remnants of the palestinian people who were 83 of whom were expelled by by israel from the part that became the state of israel in 1948 and the third is that those people that were expelled and their from the entirety of the um of historic palestine in 1948 and since and their descendants have a right to return to their homeland those are the three fundamental demands of the academic boycott and of the boycott divestment and sanctions movement in general and these are completely like uh uncontrovertible uh human rights that that we that i mean what would be the argument against them these are the the really like almost obvious not almost the obvious demands of just base human rights thanks george i'm sorry for the for the misunderstanding so we'll uh we're getting towards the end uh i have one more question for rana i mean this is something that we haven't really discussed though um it's central in the way things work in the west bank so one other question was could you please comment on your experience with checkpoints which are all over the west bank and in particular how that affects the freedom of movement in palestine and you know since we we in this conference we'd love to hear how that relates particularly to how science is pursued in palestine so i don't know if most of the people know how many checkpoints we have in west bank and gaza so uh for example the i live in in and if i want to go to nablus which is almost like 11 kilometer which is probably seven miles it's i have to use there is more than three checkpoints one is active and two have been disactivated and this is one example so the the checkpoint um most likely is uh very difficult for people movement if we moving from uh south to north of west bank especially if you're heading toward bethlehem and hebron in the south there is a a a very awful uh checkpoint in uh we they call it um in the in the south in toward hebron and jerusalem and most of the time you you are expecting delays for more than three hours so if i would like to go from phuket to hebron which is almost like 55 miles away in the distance i probably need more than four and a half hours for the vote uh for due to that checkpoint so mobility is really restricted uh due to these awful checkpoints which is most of the time it make the movement and people who would like to go and visit a different institution even for students to be able to go study on a different university is very difficult so a checkpoint from the perspective of scientists i i i didn't i did i couldn't go to uh hebron like uh only once or twice and it was only because i have to go otherwise i don't like to go with myself on this experiment because it is really not a pleasant experience that you would like to go you have to drive for four hours and another four hours to come back you are on the road for eight hours for uh for only like 100 miles which is nonsense so most of the time um we are like uh cut off like north part of west bank is like apart the center the south so it is really difficult for scientists to be able to conduct uh actual science or research with other universities despite that we still try to come up with a a a a core meeting normally we have uh meetings on in in ramallah because you have to be creative otherwise you will be look like you can't do anything the issue also with the students mobility um checkpoints have been also used as a punishment anything that happens any any any attempt any any kind of uh disagreement or any kind of um uh trouble they just close the the cities so you are you can come in or get out of the the city or the village or wherever you are in you have to take a different route which is more most of the time is very long very inconvenient so checkpoints have been used as a punishment for the palestinian in different ways for students for scientists for even a normal people living on their daily basis also which coming to this from another perspective we can't um go to gaza gaza is like like it is a totally 100 percent uh denial for most of the people who request to go to gaza if you intend to have a joint project with gaza you have to maybe meet in jordan in egypt or even in in the us you have a better luck to to get together with the people from gaza i have a personal experience in this field i used to work with in a project funded by the erasmus and the the islamic university in gaza was believed and we have with palestinian university like uh palestine technical university alcott university and kudz open university three different universities from west bank and one in gaza we have during this project more than a sex meeting they couldn't attend any of the meeting except for one that took place in belgium which was a very after a lot of negotiation to get the people out of gaza so it is totally different maybe tarik can elaborate also on the checkpoint in in or the siege that they have in gaza more because he lived it but i i read about it i see it i didn't have the chance to to visit gaza despite how long i've been in west bank so checkpoints is totally uh uh be hindering all the scientists and student and palestinian people from going on with their normal life thanks a lot and this has been our experience as well we remember when we have to organize schools in palestine we have to provide local accommodations because despite students being very close technically the universities they cannot do the commune because of checkpoints so it's really it's really something that is key um good so we're getting towards really in the last few minutes so i would like to give the opportunity of each one of you to just end us with uh with some few more thoughts just to close this incredible discussion that we've had summer if you want to start a bit lovely so maybe i will say something to uh mental health professionals who blame us for being vocal politically saying that mental health should be neutral impartial and has nothing to do with politics i think they are speaking from a luxurious luxurious place in palestine the political becomes very personal and psychological when the political situation invades our uh bedrooms and spies on our phone calls with our dear ones it gets very very personal and very very psychological and there is no way to deal with the psychological situation in palestine while ignoring the political reality all the time and i even claim that all what we do in mental health is palliative until the occupation ends you want to give us your last thoughts yeah thank you so much mario and thank you to everybody who's taken interest in this subject i think the one thing i want to say is that we are really at a point now where it feels like success is near all the work that has happened from the scientists ahead of us and all the work that we're all doing it's really contributing towards us moving to very much like a new post-occupation era it doesn't mean that we can stop working now we really have to and such a big part of that is trying to build the institutions like the scientific institutions so everybody on this call who has an academic appointment who has an academic interest can find somebody let's say in the gaza strip in the west bank or in other parts of the world i mean the whole world benefits when we do that thanks a few more thoughts well um as a scientist and i would like to thank you all for having us and i wish uh you will also continue to show your interest in scientists in palestine um we were really hoping that maybe we can find a way that you can we can outreach in the us our collaboration have been in west bank and in gaza have extended in europe and canada in the eastern part of asia but still they communic the connection and the collaboration with the united states is still like very limited maybe through scientists for palestine hopefully we will able to build a certain connection with the us because we are trying really hard to come with the for the for the the whole world as people who would like to live and thrives in in the future so we hope that you can find a way to communicate with us and we can build something together to help help the scientists in west bank and gaza thank you thank you george your last few words before we conclude i'm just going to encapsulate it this way i would i would like to go to gaza and give a normal scientific talk there i can't i have to go through an elaborate procedure that pretends that i'm going there on a humanitarian mission if i go to talk in germany if i go to talk in portugal i don't go there as a humanitarian mission this is we need to be liberated we u.s scientists need need to be liberated and our we should be ashamed that our country doesn't you know permits its supposed ally from from preventing us from this ordinary right of a scientist thank you so much george so let's uh just conclude with uh thanking everybody for attending uh this meeting thanking the triple s for giving us the chance of presenting i put up this slide for the last few seconds so that people can again uh note down the email and the website of sanchez for palestine uh get involved with filing with the filing up the the membership form on that website and following up on facebook we might we will be able to stay for a little longer in a power in the networking session that is associated with this panel uh with without that with it with that we will just thank you everybody for listening for staying here and for supporting science and palestine thank you so much on behalf of scientists for paul thank you thank you