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city club members friends guests and community members welcome to city club of central oregon today's program is nonprofits as an economic driver in central oregon my name is blair garland senior director of community relations and marketing at osu cascades and i'm honored to serve as your city club board president today's forum sponsor is sage sage wright's specialty package and monoline insurance coverage for small-to-large non-profit organizations non-profits serve the needs of the community which can leave them vulnerable to claims while non-profits serve our communities sage serves them our other forum sponsors for today are william and ann carwile and eli and dottie ashley bill and eli thank you for the many hours you've devoted to volunteering at city club today's live stream is also made possible by our partnership with connect central oregon a non-profit launched with the assistance of the osu cascades innovation co-lab i'd like to take a moment to thank our city club annual sponsors even in this challenging year our annual sponsors have continued to step up and support city club because they care deeply about our community without their support we would not be able to bring you today's program you can find a list of all of our annual sponsors on our website and i would encourage you to do so but i would especially like to thank our platinum sponsors brooks resources st charles health system in the city of bend our community partner in education osu cascades and our gold sponsors first interstate bank asi wealth management and pacific source thank you for your support we also depend on your membership support your investment in a city club membership is an investment in civil productive conversations about the topics that matter the most in our community your membership is also a personal statement that you believe civil discourse is so important perhaps now more than ever if you've been thinking about becoming a member now would be a great time to do so now let me introduce today's moderator anne george is the donor relations officer with oregon community foundation and works with individuals families and groups to achieve their philanthropic goals by connecting them to research resources and organizations to enhance the impact in their communities and beyond prior to coming to ocf ann was a professional mediator facilitator and public engagement specialist focusing on community family public policy and natural resource areas in this work she collaborated with individuals in groups across the region she also served for many years in higher education in international programs and advising offices as well as working in the international development field in both the united states and central europe and holds a bachelor's degree in political science master's degree in international relations and a certificate in advanced mediation thank you and please enjoy today's program hello i'm anne george and we're here at our forum and we're delighted to have you here i want to kick us off to talk about non-profits as an economic driver in central oregon so central oregon like most of the united states has a vibrant non-profit sector nationally there are over 12.3 million people employed by non-profits and more than 64 million people serve as non-profit volunteers in the united states 92 of nonprofits are small and community-based and exist to address community needs nationally non-profits employ more than 10 percent of the u.s private workforce more jobs than manufacturing construction or finance our speakers today will share more about what a non-profit is and is not the types of nonprofits we have here in central oregon and their role in our economic structure here in central oregon in addition they'll share why they feel they are important to a vibrant community and its members these organizations non-profits serve critical needs in community promote and support democracy spur innovation and what is often overlooked they contribute substantially to the economic health and stability of our communities we are at a time of substantial need here as we continue to face a pandemic in its serious economic fallout and the ongoing critical call for social justice couple these realities with the threat of wildfire in our own community as demonstrated in oregon this fall there's a lot to do to help people and communities thrive and keep our cities and towns safe the organization i work for oregon community foundation in partnership with our incredible donors and like many other foundations increased our grant making in 2020 in response to the realities of our time as in from 2020 to 2019 there was an increase of over 44 at ocf alone in our grant making and as i mentioned other foundations did similar and many of us individually provided more and as we know 2021 will continue to be another critical year but these organizations we support these non-profits are not organizations that simply seek funds and provide critical social services they play a number of important roles in our local regional state and international economic systems our speakers will share more about our nonprofit sector here in central oregon across our three counties and i thought i would share an interesting tidbit to start us off when we talk about economic growth in community and nonprofits did you know that a non-profit here that many of us know jbar.j employs roughly as many people here in central oregon as our oldest most prominent brewery and many more than their production site alone when we're talking about the nonprofit sector as an economic driver we're talking about a sector that both provides a substantial number of jobs here and in turn it provides an incredible number of critical services that benefit our economic and social sector in a myriad of ways so we'll now hear more from our incredible speakers today i'll introduce for both of them jim white serves as the executive director of the nonprofit association of oregon jim is deeply committed to social change and has worked in the nonprofit sector both domestically and internationally for more than 25 years he has a passion for affecting systemic change in the way that the public private and non-profit sectors work together to support and strengthen an equitable just and robust civil society before joining nao jim worked for mercy corps both overseas and in oregon he has also worked for the international organization for migration relief international and the american red cross jim earned a bachelor in science in engineering technology from temple university and an m.a in central eurasian area studies from indiana university damon rundberg is a familiar face to those of us here at city club he is a state economist with the oregon employment department covering central oregon the klamath basin and the columbia river gorge he calculates the monthly employment and unemployment estimates for the area's counties additionally damon tracks various economic indicators critical to the region's economy he writes prolifically and regularly gives presentations on the state of the local economy damon received his master of public policy from oregon state university corvallis where he specialized in econometric analysis and national resource economics before that he received his undergraduate from gonzaga university so jim and damon thank you so much for joining us today i thought we'd start off jim maybe with you and we'd love for you to give us an idea when we use the term nonprofit what does that mean and what are the different types of nonprofits in the united states thanks so much and thanks everybody for joining us um i'm really excited to be here today and i hope if there's anything you leave with here today is a deeper sense of uh devotion and loyalty to your central oregon non-profits i think david and i can give you a lot of reasons why non-profit is probably the term that i would most like to change about our sector why would you tell people that you're something you're not right so i would love if we could all just rebrand ourselves as the independent sector or the public good sector or something else other than to say that we're non-profit the issue is is that non-profits nationally were classified based on our tax status and that's been the label that has stuck all these years there's many many different kinds of nonprofits as i call them they're kind of like the flavors of baskin robbins where there's actually 29 different types of non-profit in federal irs statute that is what determines our status as a as a corporate structure in america and that it follows through into oregon statute um it's relayed and copied through um oregon revised statute chapter 65. the the different types of nonprofits i could say generally break into two main categories there are those that are public or charitable benefit and i think that's most of the types of nonprofits that we're going to be talking about today and then there's a whole group of nonprofits that are called mutual benefit and those are non-profits who only support their members so examples of those would be veterans associations um a credit union a um the eagles or or lions clubs or you know groups like that where it's some type of a order who comes together for some type of uh you know person ship together fellowship together whatever you want to call it and they're serving only their members they may have some level of um [Music] of a non-profit they are described as a nonprofit in the law and they may have some level of ability not to pay certain kinds of taxes but what they cannot do that a charitable nonprofit can do is that they cannot give a receipt to their donors that says that this can be something that they can recognize on their taxes and get some kind of benefit for it and um so the charitable benefit nonprofits that's the group i think we're going to be concentrating on those today are those kinds of organizations that i think many of you know and love in central oregon it's as hand mentioned j bar j it's the relief nursery it's the high desert museum it's groups like that that are serving some type of a charitable purpose they are private corporations doing public good doing some type of public benefit is probably the easiest way to think of them so that's sort of a a round out of what they are um we're lucky in that in the statistics that i think david and anna and i are going to share here shortly that there is a relatively large concentration of non-profits registered in central oregon particularly in deschutes county but broadly across the tri-county area in fact that area is ranked third in the number of total non-profits that are charitable non-profits that we certainly track um in size so you you have about the third largest conglomeration of non-profits in central oregon after of course the portland metro area and then second is uh in and around eugene springfield wing cali area so i'll stop there so and you can get on to the next work great thanks so much jim damon i wonder if you can help ground us on some of more what we're talking about but what does the non-profit sector look like as we look at economic indicators in central oregon so how many organizations are there and how many folks are employed by non-profits in central oregon yeah great question and once again just thank you for having me here it's my pleasure and i'm excited to hear and learn more from jim and you and as well as you guys are the experts on non-profits i'm just the numbers guy right so uh i have lots of numbers i don't want to get too crazy with sharing stats but but i think it's important to quantify or you know what what the the magnitude of of this sort of sector is and as jim pointed out you know non-profits it's sort of a catch-all um and there are a variety of different types of nonprofits that are out there and as jim mentioned as well that it's sort of based on tax status and from our perspective at the employment department all non-profits are lumped underneath the same payroll taxes uh label of just nonprofits so our charitables the mutual like whatever the categories that exist are there are all lumped together when i'm going to share anything employment related so just sort of know that in the back your mind but roughly speaking here in central oregon we have you know oh well over a thousand uh nonprofit organizations uh 1 111 lots of ones in there across the tri-county area but when we're looking at those non-profits that we would consider payroll establishments organizations or businesses that actually have employees with covered under unemployment insurance think you're sort of w-2 employee type folks roughly half of those are what we consider payroll establishments so around 540 or so across the tri-county area and uh before i get too much into central oregon i think it's important to sort of look higher level sort of what does the landscape look like in oregon and statewide we have just under 10 000 non-profit payroll establishments once again these are those that have employees not just any organization there's many for instance uh of these organizations aren't um payroll establishments because they might be very small maybe volunteer based et cetera so there's just that's why you have you know nearly double the number of nonprofits and there are payroll establishments but nearly 10 000 across the state of oregon and as of 2019 there was 198 000 jobs across the state of oregon that were in these non-profits so a ton of jobs out there and um you know there's a you know we'll get into pay i think in a little bit but just know in the back your mind that there's a considerable spread that exists within the pay spectrum of the workers within the nonprofit sector where we have around 62 percent of all the jobs in the nonprofit sector making more than 20 an hour and about 20 percent making less than 15 an hour so you have a big chunk one in five jobs are sort of in that sort of low really low wage um side of the spectrum and then um but you do have a majority who we consider sort of like a living wage job off of these within the nonprofit sector and man it's it's funny because we tend to be industry driven when we talk about employment numbers and it's interesting to talk from a tax filing perspective because um there are lots of industries represented within the nonprofit sector which um you know when you think about not the nonprofits you interact with there's no surprise there i suppose but really what we see is there's three industries that dominate the nonprofit sector employment that would be healthcare and social assistance which represents roughly 60 of all the jobs we see across the state are in healthcare and social assistance on the nonprofit side um other services is another big one and we'll get into some of the details what other services what types of organizations are underneath that catch-all and then educational services as well those are sort of the three big ones those together account for 85 of all non-profit employment across the state and ultimately hospitals are a bit of the elephant in the room in here you know not only is health care amongst the the largest amount of jobs within the non-profit health care side um but really they they account for a huge share of just non-profit as a whole or just hospitals and so i'm actually going to sort of later on here break apart hospitals from the non-profits so that we can get a better idea of what we're seeing within the nonprofit sector um but generally across the state what we see is that in metropolitan areas about ten percent of all non-farm jobs are in uh are in non-profits so one in ten in your metropolitan areas uh that share is a little bit lower in rural counties about seven percent the difference or the discrepancy we see there is really hospitals and to to a lesser degree higher education so um our big hospitals across the state tend to be concentrated in our metropolitan areas they're health care hubs so you have a higher concentration of non of um of not non-profit um jobs there and then like i said higher education are sort of private four-year institutions our private uh private colleges um those are tend to mostly be all non-profits as well and those are concentrated in metropolitan area for the most part as well so you sort of see this discrepancy there between metro and rural and here in central oregon we're sort of right in the middle of that where roughly nine percent of all of our jobs are are represented in uh non-nonprofit um establishments um and uh so just a marginally higher share there and i apologize i've been narrating for a while here but there's just there's a lot of numbers to share so um if you want to interrupt me and you can but i could just keep ripping away here so um those so if we look at central oregon now so this sort of just a statewide snapshot we'll see with the numbers there if we look at central oregon the tri-county area like i said around 540 non-profit payroll establishments and we're going to exclude the hospital when we talk about st central oregon so st charles is not included here and once again we're excluding st charles for a variety of reasons it's the elephant in the room um it it sort of limits me from talking about the the details within the nonprofit sector if i include them for some confidentiality reasons um but also they're such a meaningful high paying large employer that we don't really get to see or understand the trends that are happening within the nonprofit sector here in central oregon when they're included in there so just know st charles is really important um they're critical to our economy here in central oregon but we're not talking about that when we zoom in here on the central oregon jobs um so the non-st charles nonprofit uh around 4 500 jobs here in central oregon and when we cut out saint charles we go from having roughly nine percent of all of our jobs being uh in the nonprofit sector to about four and a half percent of all of our jobs being in the nonprofit sector uh give you know give you an idea of the magnitude of of uh their sort of elephant in the roomness if you will for saint charles um this is where central oregon really stands out as far as our share of nonprofits when you exclude hospitals once again central oregon's employment in nonprofits represents four and a half percent of total non-farm employment statewide it's only 1.6 percent so we have a really sizable sort of market share in non-profits when you cut hospitals out here in central oregon which is um a good thing we'll get into some of the good thing reasons what what are uh the benefits that we get from from these non-profits specifically but having a high share is definitely not a bad thing um and you could share my first slide if you can scott which sort of just breaks down where we see the establishments and the employment within um within central oregon by the different sectors and you can see for the most part there's a really really high concentration of these jobs are concentrated in this sort of grant making civic professional and similar organizations you know for the most part i think labor unions economic development churches the humane society conservation organizations these are all sort of lumped in that top category right there so a lot of the non-profits that we interact with on a daily basis are for the most part fall in that top sector there were over 250 payroll establishments here in central oregon and well over a thousand jobs um and uh the only maybe the last yeah should i talk about coven which should covet is you know one of these things it's like always in the back of everyone's mind do you want do you want to hear an update in we'll get a little nod there okay so um covet has been um pretty devastating to the nonprofit sector from an employment perspective um for some for some perspectives uh over the last 10 years the nonprofit sector has far outpaced growth employment growth in the the total non-farm sector as a whole 44 growth in employment over the last 10 years before covid started so this has been an area a sector of our economy um that has continued to add jobs really uninterrupted since our last recession but um second quarter 2020 so sort of right after the covet shock occurred employment levels had dropped roughly 15 and a half percent in central oregon and nonprofits compared to what they were in the second quarter of 2019 so a year-over-year drop of over 15 and a half percent that represents 700 jobs here in central oregon 700 jobs i mean that's a lot of people who lost their jobs in the nonprofit sector and um scott my second slide is uh showing some of these stats here if you want to put that one up um what's you know devastating is that those losses are more severe than we see in in sort of the total non-farm side um not nearly as severe as we see in sort of leisure and hospitality i suppose but not far behind that sort of magnitude of losses we saw there one interesting thing you'll see though is that the drop in payroll so the actual money being paid in wages to workers only dropped by 1.1 percent through the second quarter this is a pattern that we've seen not exclusive to non-profits this is a pattern through the coveted shock that we've seen across the entire economy where um jobs are hit much worse than payrolls and what's happening here is that we're seeing that low-wage workers are taking the brunt of the layoffs and so we don't see actual payroll dropping nearly as much as the employment numbers and it's the same story we're seeing here in non-profits where our low-wage nonprofit workers have been hit much much harder with these layoffs um than some of the the higher wage workers with within the industry or since the industry within the sector so um the good news is is this is numbers through the second quarter so it looks really devastating we do know that there's been considerable rebounding um through third and parts of the fourth quarter of 2020 that data is just not available publicly available yet so we can't share that but we do know that we've been moving in the right direction but no in the back your mind it has been one of the sectors really hardest hit um through coven thanks damon really interesting statistics there and really helpful for our discussion um so it's interesting and jim i mean we could talk about you there's so many things that non-profits do in community and certainly hearing those number of 700 essentially people who aren't providing service in our community at a time of incredible need is something to really think about um i'm just wondering jim if you could talk about in addition to jobs what are some of the other economic impacts in our community or region from the non-profit sector here damon i know you probably have something to add here too if you jim will start with you sure thanks han there there are a lot of impacts that nonprofits have both economically from a actual employees paying for goods and services maybe keeping those old list breweries open um i think they do a lot of that there there's also these you know sort of ancillary is that as though the ripples go away the drops that are out there of how money gets spent when you have an a sector that is spending money so they obviously need these are private corporations again doing public good these non-profits they have their own need for rental of buildings of you know cleaning services of uh hiring you know outside professionals who do their legal and you know cpa work and they do banking and they do all these other parts of the uh the the work of any kind of a corporation in this case they just happen to be charitable and non-profit or the group that i'm talking about is charitable um so so they have all those ancillary benefits that come off of having a group of corporations in your community who are spending money right there's a lot of talk i've heard you know gotten challenges a lot of like well the nonprofit sector is not a traded sector obviously that's true we're not a traded sector but at the same time we are also a sector that brings in money from outside of the state into the state that would not have otherwise been invested in oregon and you know a good example is you yourselves at oregon community foundation you know there are people who may have left um universities or they may have left a particular area but they still care about oregon they still care about the environment they want there to be organizations out there who are doing protections for the greater good for public lands or doing uh work for domestic violence and so they are moved to give to these organizations regardless of whether they happen to live in oregon and we see again and again where there are huge uh gifts and amounts of money that come into communities that would not have been brought into the community except for the fact that non-profits are there the final thing i would add here is the the value the economic value of the services themselves this is very difficult to quantify um there have been debates and you know dave and i had great conversations offline about this before around there's debates about are we even really using the right measures when it comes to measuring gross domestic product or growth growth state product in in how the value of the thing that a corporation a company does has economic impacts on the community far beyond the sale value or the employment value and there has been a movement in the last let's say 15 years to modify or think about moving from gross domestic product measures to what are called genuine process indicators or genuine uh product indicators and these measures are mostly centered around the value of the good or service in addition to the value of the actual money spent by the corporation in the in the the community so a quick way to kind of understand this is if you have a private corporation that does things that maybe some would quantify as those are actually negative for the community because they create um problems in health they could create problems in other ways uh they maybe they're big polluters or something what are the economic impacts that later the society has to deal with through taxes through the government intervention through some other means that that product has on society as compared to by being charitable organizations the economy of the good that we do the things that we do are required by both federal and state law to meet this public benefit threshold so they have to be things that are sort of above the line in terms of um the value for community and i say that value both as sort of societally and also economically i'll stop there yeah i think you know jimmy do a great job sort of illustrating this point that um there's sort of um two ways we can measure value and one of them is that sort of traditional sense this sort of how many dollars are circulated because of the the activity within a particular business organization sort of our traditional way of thinking about um economic impact is this churning of dollars and then there's another side which is sort of the value that the service or or the product that you produce um has to a community and typically like if you if you produce some sort of widget like a you know a window or something like that there's a tangible value to the window that you manufacture in many cases and we'll we'll get into this a little bit but in many cases some of the the services provided by some of these non-profits don't necessarily have an easy dollar value assigned to them that the benefit that they produce so um i'll start with the easier part the um those organizations that churn dollars and what the what the impact looks like first and um and scott if you could throw up my employment multiplier slide um we have a way of sort of quantifying the impact that you know what is one direct job in a particular type of business or organization um what sort of ripple effect through the economy do we see with one job or in this case we're talking for every 100 jobs 100 direct jobs that an organization might have and there's sort of two multipliers that we look at the first is what we call indirect spending this is sort of supply chain spending within the organization of the business this is um the money that the organization spends um uh in turn or to produce the goods or service that they render so um a classic example would be you know some sort of manufacturing company that builds say steel cabinetry you know the money that they spend procuring the actual raw steel that they used to make their cabinets out of would be an indirect expense and that has um there are jobs that are supported by that indirect expense through the supply chain the second type of multiplier that we see are called induced jobs or the induced impact and these are jobs that are supported by the spending of the direct jobs themselves so i work for the oregon employment department they pay me a salary and and then i choose to go to the grocery store and spend money and so i'm sort of indirectly my my spending is inducing employment in grocery stores because to a small extent because of my spending at the grocery store or a lift operator at mount bachelor if i buy a lift ticket etc so there's this induced effect that happens from the direct spending so the numbers that we see here on this graphic are sort of what is the combination that sort of multiplier we see how many jobs are supported for every 100 direct jobs that are there and you can see i highlighted in blue some of the sectors that have really high concentrations of non-profit organizations within them and so for instance that grant making giving and social advance advocacy group there they had it has more than a one-to-one ratio there so there is more than one job supported for every one job that is directly created by an organization there and a really a really high multiplier and you can see it's really competitive too when you compare it against some of these other sectors that are known to have high multipliers such as advertising and marketing or even you know much higher than some of our local manufacturing businesses such as wood windows and door manufacturing there which has um less than a one to one ratio still really solid though for every 100 you get 80 jobs that are supported outside of that and so you can see that there's this really high concentration of these high multipliers here that's those that direct impact that we're able to measure not just the jobs but that they're also supporting other components of the economy um through the work that they're doing at these non-profits but you could see that there's quite a few of these blue lines towards the bottom there something like the community food housing and other relief services the educational service et cetera they're relatively low on the multiplier range there so you would look at this and say wow these aren't particularly important are impactful for our local economy um to the contrary i would actually argue that some of these these sort of low multiplier type organizations um serve a purpose um that you know might have a larger impact than even some of the high multiplier organizations might have um so what we see for instance is that these low multiplier organizations or businesses provide really critical community services such as food housing support homeless services you know the education etc and the low economic impact doesn't mean low importance what it means is that they are they have lower wages generally and it also means that they're not really buying a lot of goods or services from other parts of the economy the the indirect spending piece so that doesn't mean once again that they're not important it also means that they tend to be types of services that are less profitably um rendered from the private sector which is you know which is why you tend to see these concentrated either in the public sector or the non-profit sector is because they they it's really hard to make money doing this work it's really hard to provide homeless services and and be profitable providing services to to homeless folks right it just doesn't it just doesn't add up but it is a critical service that we need for sustaining our communities and so there is still a lot of importance there a lot of um a lot a lot that we should focus on even though we can't sort of measure the the dollars that are changing hands amongst um amongst the folks within those organizations so um it's unfortunate tat like like jim said we don't have indicators that can really capture the benefit of some of these low multiplier but high for value of community services but there is a distinct important value there thanks damon thanks jim it's just a follow-up to that i'm just curious for the two of you just a quick response you know one of the things that we've talked about a little bit in other discussions you know the arts center um that's part of the nonprofit sector that probably doesn't have a high multiplier effect what is that impact for bringing industry or jobs or even retaining um high-paying jobs here i'm wondering if you could speak to that at all if that's a reality or or something yeah jim yeah i'd be happy to um yeah i mean if if they're there but for these kinds of uh services whether it's arts and culture whether it's people protecting the environment these things that are not what you would normally sort of classify as in sort of maslow's hierarchy of needs let's say these things that tend to be more at the top of the triangle than the bottom and what i mean there is that the things that aren't necessarily helping people who are experiencing homelessness or working with kids who have experienced domestic violence or things like that this is more these things that bring joy and happiness to a community well a lot of the reason that people move to central oregon and live and raise families there and enjoy all the wonderful things that um are available is because there are mountains and there are trails that are uh available for people to to hike there are arts and cultural events there are walks along the deschutes river that people can get involved with and a lot of that is organized by non-profit so there there is a huge amount of value in the types of things that they do that can't be quantified in that way but bring a very real value to people's lives and you know and you mentioned the beginning i mean i worked internationally for many years i've worked in a lot of places around the world where there is not that capacity to have that joy and care of the environment and protection of you know endangered species and those types of things and so when you have that you have a less uh thriving civil society you don't have those same protections so having what i call all three legs of the stool of a civil society having the public sector do its proper work and and you know protecting the the types of responsibilities that they must do having a private sector driving employment and innovation and you know for a large part of the economy but having a third independent sector that can keep both to some degree accountable and serves this very special role of private people not having to go through the government and for none for for non-profit making means doing good for their community it's when when people ask me the question about well are there too many non-profits i i think it's the wrong question to ask why would you limit the way that people care about and love their community and scott mentioned earlier sorry damon mentioned earlier scott i'm looking at your name on the board here damon mentioned earlier that there are a whole bunch of non-profits who don't employ anybody these are these are volunteers oregon ranks third in the country in volunteerism 43 of oregonians volunteer that's huge that's an oregonian value let's say right there is huge value in that amount of person hours per year that doesn't then get fitted into what what scott can provide in these particular you know charts so having that care and love of community is hugely important and there's huge value to that and i think this is exactly one of the reasons of oregon and central oregon in particular are places to live yeah and i there's a term for this that we call you know it's so for quality of life is a huge passion of mine for talking about the economic value there um one of my my mentors when i was uh early in my career as an economist um was professor ed white whitelaw from the university of oregon is one of our more prominent um economists that we've had across the state and he came up with this term back in the 1980s um it's called the second paycheck and the way he described it was and i'll quote him here because i think it's beautiful the way he he said it himself from his words was that every worker in oregon receives in effect two paychecks one denominated in dollars the dollars that you get from your employer itself right your your paycheck and the other in the states clean air clean stream scenic vistas publicly on beaches in forested mountains what he was getting to with this idea of the second paycheck is this this notion that um we all get something else some sort of we can't really necessarily quantify it in a dollar value but we all get something from the place we live if i value theater then there is a really high second paycheck in some place like new york city if i value mountain biking then bend oregon sounds really attractive to me right and there's um there is a value there i'm willing to actually forego a smaller first paycheck in order to get a bigger second paycheck that's why we see people move to high quality of life communities giving up maybe a career opportunity for advancement or whatever it might be well here in central oregon really all over the globe but uh nonprofit organizations here are doing a lot of work to help build that second paycheck for us in central oregon whether that's protecting natural resources encouraging or funding arts and culture providing educational learning opportunities things like the high desert museum facilitating recreation especially for recreation for people with disabilities even attracting new businesses to the region these second paycheck elements that are supported by a lot of our nonprofits in and of themselves are economic drivers for um attracting people to central oregon bringing um good quality workers to our communities and making us to continue to be sort of a livable um exciting thriving community to be in so um it's it's hard i could not understate the fact that the second paycheck element is so critical for us here in central oregon in our non-profit sector is really critical in maintaining that to the degree that it has been great thank you both i wonder jim you mentioned the idea of um both of you in terms of what the nonprofit sector where it's hard to quantify some of what they bring to community especially in the economic realities of communities and regions but i'm wondering are you in parts of oregon there are areas that probably have a weaker nonprofit sector or less or they have trouble fundraising because of the socioeconomics of the community what do you give any thoughts or experiences on what is that community compared to here in our tri-county area where we seem to have a robust nonprofit sector yeah i can i can jump in there um so obviously there are places in oregon that have a smaller population and so there is less opportunity for those organizations to be created in many cases the organizations that do exist the nonprofit organizations that do exist that that try to do those those key services that other non-profits do in central oregon are all volunteer again so they're not showing up the same way and like some of damon statistics but they are still there they are still doing work they are still holding cultural events they may be relying or connecting in with statewide nonprofits we do have a lot of statewide or even region-wide non-profits who do work out of urban cores but they're doing work far beyond their their own particular area and so they're there there's definitely a [Music] loss of the quality of life by a inversely proportionate ratio of how many non-profits you may have in a particular community and those non-profits may be concentrating more on the lower ends of that maslow's hierarchy of needs scale than they are able to on the upper end so they're really worried about job creation they're really worried about um you know human service related issues and there's and the issues that might bring greater uh cultural joy or environmental support or things like that might be left to more regional or even statewide nonprofits who who they hopefully engage with great thank you i'm going to keep us moving so i know we want to get to some of the questions that are coming in but one other question before we get to some other what we're here what we're seeing from other folks on the participating today one of the questions that sometimes will come up is the notion of wages of the nonprofit sector and damon you mentioned even just the variety amongst not only organizations but even the the real hit that some of these organizations have taken in the coded times with those 700 jobs lost in the second quarter of 2020 so as folks consider supporting a non-profit sometimes a question that comes up is about those wages there can be some resistance from donors to have their donations go to pace for salaries we know that there's only a certain number of dollars that are circulating to nonprofits what should we think about those as we think about non-province's economic engines and providing jobs what do we think about those wages or what is there another question or another way for us to think about that or what do you think well i'll i'll let jim cover in a second here the bigger question about sort of um uh sort of fundamentally thinking about how much someone should make in a non-profit business but or organization but i i'll sort of cover what they actually make so what do the payroll records tell us um so the average annual wage i don't know if i remember if i said that or not but for non-profits statewide including hospitals is around fifty four thousand five hundred dollars a um a year fifty four thousand five hundred and that is almost identical to the statewide annual average wage of 55 000 a year so just marginally lower than what we see so it's it doesn't it's not an excess or anything like that a particularly high paying sector if we focus on central oregon when we're cutting out saint charles once again saint charles being um you know an organization that has a lot of high wage workers or middle wage workers as well we see that the the annual average wage here in central oregon without the hospital in non-profits is around six thousand dollars a year which is over ten thousand dollars less a year than our total non-farm average so it's um it's on the low end of the pay so um when you hear criticisms perhaps of non-profits um you know all these high-paying non-profit workers um on average it doesn't it doesn't show that um that's not it's not an industry where people are going to uh or a sector people are going to to make the big bucks they're likely working in these sectors because they're passionate about the work that's being done there but that being said as an economist i always have to illustr emphasize this point just because someone's passionate about a particular mission of an organization doesn't mean that you should pay them less because of their passion in order to continue to have good workers doing these important roles you need to pay a competitive wage and so um often times maybe that's where the criticism comes from of some of these higher wage jobs within nonprofits is oh how do you justify paying x number of dollars for your executive at this non-profit well the answer is if you don't pay them that then they're not going to work and you're a non-profit and they're probably going to move to the private sector anyway so you have to offer be at least competitive in the market to some extent on the wage side um uh to to do this work or do these services damage just a quick clarification i had a question come in are we when you're talking about the salaries are you talking full-time part-time and same with the number of jobs is there any can you pull those numbers out or is it one i think we we can't with the non-profits pull it out based on for-profit or non-uh with for for the non-profit sector to look at it by an hourly rate in the same way that we can sort of for the economy as a whole um generally we we do know hours to some extent and the hours tend to be lower on average and nonprofit businesses um that totally makes sense though where you have um a lot of workers who might do it as sort of a side job they might do a couple hours a week helping assist in some educational program or uh whatever it might be so so you do see a lot more part-time work here and that could um that wouldn't necessarily affect the average annual wage because it's all relative to the number of of hours worked is what your pay is so um anyways it is a contributing factor maybe in some of the lower wages and also you tend to pay you know part-time workers less than your full-time workers anyways so it could be a contributing factor there but it's hard for us to break down um explicitly sort of what the part-time versus full-time workers are making thanks jim when your work which is nonprofits all the time what do what do you think about this question around wages what should we be thinking here well we are huge advocates for paying people a living wage and absolutely you know our philosophical approach this is you know these non-profits are providing such a valuable resource to the communities that they're serving they should not be expected to do that service on the blood and backs of their own employees that that service has such enormous value there are absolutely great community members who are volunteering their time they're deciding that they are in a position where they don't need to take a wage and that is wonderful i think that that in some ways has almost though confused the issue for non-profits for years in the the intermingling of those people who are passionately uh connected to the mission of the organization and they want to volunteer their time and those people who are passionately connected to the mission of the organization but they're doing this as a profession they're actually have some specialization and you know to damon's point is that you know we we would not want to see a situation where the the types of people that you want doing the kinds of services that non-profits are known to do are not competitive with their private sector or public sector equivalents right so that is a real problem if you don't have people who are and i know that we've we've put st charles to the side but you don't want your ophthalmologist or your brain surgeon or your heart you know your cardiologist paid less than they would have been able to make if they go into a different kind of hospital because it has a different profit scheme a business model the same is true i think for every other type of non-profit you want those domestic violence services you want those addiction services you want those protections of the environment done by people who have a professional background and they've dedicated their lives to this work and you're muted you're muted thank you um great uh response thank you well some of the questions coming in are around sort of this you know we're talking about how these are the economic impacts of nonprofits and some of the questions coming in are around um and jim you talked a bit about this in youtube damon but the idea of why why does this non-profit sector need to exist why does it not get taken care of elsewhere either in the private or government sectors and sort of the question around capitalism with all of this i wonder if that's probably informal on its own but if you could talk for a minute or two about that that'd be terrific i will and i was saving these because i thought this might come up um scott if you could show my slide one i i didn't reserve in case there was this possibility so this is a slide showing you a study that was done by the group called independent sector they're sort of what nao does but they do it nationally and this was a study a poll that they did back in june may and june of last year they did it with national pollsters so this was all done with you know right looking left looking telephone pole survey uh focus groups the whole bit and what this found was that there is a deep sense of institutions failing the general publc again this was done last may in june um people saying you know half of the people saying the fist the system is failing them the percent of americans who agreed you can see here i'm not going to read all this out to you but this sense of injustice this desire for change this lack of confidence lack of hope specifically 47 of people saying that capitalism as it exists today does not does more harm the good in the world those are pretty compelling numbers scott if you could show the next slide slide two shows who is trusted to lead change in society and again here we see that at the low end of the spectrum so the bars that are the lowest down there ceos captains of industry government leaders and the very wealthy are least trusted to make change for societal good the people who are most trusted and again this was done last may in june so as you can imagine scientists suddenly took a huge shot up when you have people like dr fauci on the news all the time right we're in the middle of the coveted crisis but i would draw attention to the second bar from the left there 71 of americans are saying people in my local community well that's who makes up the non-profit sector it's people in your local community leading change then you can see as this goes down the trust that people have in various levels of different institutions the final point i wanted to make here is um the next slide number three scott if you could specifically they asked the question related to confidence in non-profits to help strengthen society the the the polling numbers are off the charts 81 have confidence that non-profits are the people who are leading that kind of change so that's i think my answer to your question anne is there is huge benefit for these organizations because there is a perception of what they do that goes way beyond the economic impacts of what they do and especially at a time in america and in oregon when we have such divisions and such a different way of our our people who live in communities looking at the world and looking at how their community should should be organized so you can stop some of my slides now scott thanks so i'll i'll be quick on this one but i i think um an important concept is um many of you have probably heard of it before it's called the tragedy of the commons and it's this um this economic conversation theoretical conversation about um if there is a shared common pool resource and um and we all collectively have access to it um are we going to manage that resource in the long run sustainably in such that we don't deplete it immediately and eleanor oakstrom who is a prominent economist who actually won the nobel prize in economics for her work on on the tragedy of the commons and common pool resources um helps illustrate the point that you know ultimately we think we live in this capitalist completely free market world and we don't and thank god we don't um because the the market should be very free or mostly free but not completely free because in a free market setup what we see is that the incentive there is for these common pool resources to be completely depleted so um the common examples that we hear are clean air or clean water oceans forests public lands et cetera these sorts of resources like this if they are not administered or managed separate from the market then we collectively as human beings are going to jeopardy we're going to bite the hand that feeds us we're going to get what's ours and um and so the role of government is important in protecting these things like common pool resources and nonprofits also fall into this category as well so um ultimately the nonprofits help avoid the tragedy of the commons if you will that's great i'm seeing i'm watching the clock here looks like we're almost out of time perhaps another forum on this certainly folks are talking about the idea of different systems of government and social services and how those are provided and certainly jim to your point maybe some different levels of perception of trust across different sectors and different places in the world well i want to thank both of you there are lots of questions we didn't get to today um lots of good comments on facebook and youtube for those watching this scroll down and see those comments great input from a lot of our non-profit community who are doing this work they always have and in particular during these times your work is so appreciated and we thank you all i also want to thank our two speakers damon and jim thank you so much for sharing today and i'll just share a little bit to wrap us up um again i want to thank our speakers for taking time out of their busy schedules and you're seeing the central oregon sun if anyone's seen this from the valley that's what's um i can't get away from it today i'm coming in my window i love it and we want to thank today's forum sponsors sage insurance solutions bill and ann carwile and eli and dottie ashley thank you for your support of sun city club remember if you enjoyed today's forum i would like to help support city club please consider becoming a member or live stream sponsor at cityclubco.org coming up in our next forum our region is often called oregon nice or pacific northwest nice by other areas of the country but is central oregon as welcoming as we think systemic racism and social injustice still exist even 155 years after the passage of the 13th amendment abolishing slavery the civil rights act of 1964 and the black lives matter movement in 2020 it can be hard to acknowledge that these issues may be closer to home than we think we'll take a look at central oregon's history of racial exclusion that invites a discussion of our communities diversity and acceptance join marcus legrand project consultant allyship in action kip jones executive pastor at antioch church jenna goodman campbell then city councilor and a speaker from ben lapine schools to learn what initiatives they're taking and how you can ensure that central oregon grows to be more diverse safe and accessible to everyone learn about the past present and future of acceptance at our february 18th live stream please be sure you're on our email list by signing up at cityclubco.org thank you all so much for watching today please continue to cultivate concert conversation about issues that connect us all to build a strong community thank you again [Music] you

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