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[Music] this is sin temple ye community matters here one bingo that Sandra O'Hara says she's my special guest today we catch up with each other every now and then in everyone's always quality time not that I need it professionally but some of you do she's a tech employment expert with a deco doing that 18 years it doesn't look over 18 anyway I guess whatever you're doing agrees with you welcome to the show Thank You Jay my pleasure so tell us how you spend your days at a deco what's it like who do you talk to at a given day you're on the phone you're sending email who are you speaking with well what what's been very interesting is as you know because the unemployment is so low in Hawaii you know it's it's very tricky it was getting candidates as well as getting keep getting companies are willing to hire us to find them good people on one hand people think oh well it's got to be better now because of the fact that they can't find them on their own that is partially true but the problem is if we can't talk to them there is no exchange of or billing yourself so it's it's a challenge but I've always felt that it's it's fun and because I feel like I'm being a marriage broker I mean when you make the right match it's absolutely incredible you followed them don't you absolutely cuz I go back in and I you know after they're there then there may be a week or two and I just check in with how they're doing and when you walk in and the company is grilled because they have a new wonderful employee and the employees Rose because they have a new wonderful job you cannot beat that feeling of the mattress I'm a matchmaker exactly so you know I guess so what if I wanted to be and that's not saying this is necessarily what I would want to be but if I wanted to be a tech of and specialists like with the tech go what kind of a person whatever person would I be should I be well for one thing you've got the light people you'd prefer in that realm and you know you need to also kind of be a detective because as you know people sometimes overstate their quality you have to kind of delve beneath the surface and try and find everything out that you can that's pertinent to the situation we also offer our clientele or the companies that employ us I guarantee so we will guarantee that the person is going to work out and stay and so because of that you really want to make the right match it's not worth anybody's time to make the wrong match and have to go and we do it or leave a bad taste so what kind of I mean since you raised that let me ask what kind of economics are there if I come to you as an employer and need somebody and you know I would because there's a shortage right right skilled skilled employees so I come to you and I say find me somebody what do you say about the economics what's it going to cost me for that well I and I'm just gonna use an average because it does it it will vary depending if it's nonprofit depending on it's really difficult I would say the average rate is about 20% of the annualized salary okay but again as I mentioned that does come with a guarantee that if the person doesn't work out with it well it's a 90 day guarantee but it's the first 30 days that you would get all of their money back it was like oh yeah that's right or a perfect replacement so one of you well replace yeah oh yeah as I'd probably be interested in a replacement that's right one didn't work out that's right you know in my law firm we had a rule of 1 of 6 we and I'm not sure that that that ratio still works anymore but one out of six people you think are qualified to do the job will actually be able to do the job no but that's an interesting way to look at it though and and it worked out for you I mean that really worked out to be want to say well we we hit the one you know pretty pretty often yeah but sometimes we hit the 500k okay now you know you had asked me um you know as far as coming on the show about tech jobs per se I wanted to ask you about the market right and I wanted to ask you you know first since you want to get serious about this we don't get too serious here is what is tech what is tech for you what's the definition of the kinds of jobs that you that are on your desk okay I guess the definition of a tech job would be related to computers and touching computers and programming and it's automation - exactly so that is the true pure definition attack surprisingly what I have been working on what seems to be really hot now is construction I'm talking about hiring managers estimators everything related to construction construction construction as you know in Kakaako and everything there's tons of stuff going on yeah but when you asked me to talk about tech jobs and coming on the show for that I actually did a little bit of homework good and I was surprised and I was shocked that and I want to give some statistics here because I want people that are out there to know that there is a ton of quote tech jobs available okay LinkedIn right now has posted 500 tech jobs in Honolulu really yes without me is it me you're opening something yes openings okay now on the other hand another vehicle that I know all your listeners are aware of his career builder career builder has posted 128 cake jobs these are just tech jobs and another vehicle that is posted 220 for tech jobs is indeed so those are kind of the major players for job that is my job now of course a lot of its overlap right because people post their jobs on multiple places so that doesn't mean they're you just would add them up and that's the grand total but I was very pleasantly surprised because as I mentioned what's keeping me busy right now is construction so I'm thinking I'm thinking to myself here I'm overlooking a big market there because if they're that many tech jobs that people are needing to fill I should try and you know look into helping them in their arena so that really was an eye-opener for me these are jobs that are posted where posted on their their websites no they're posted on the major websites that people look at for when they're looking for a job so that's career builder that's LinkedIn and then those on their sites then and on you know you don't have an exclusive on this but you could help a person figure out where to go and what what's what the good marriage is right that's right so I was pleasantly surprised to see how many jobs were posted on those sites and I think part of the reason why these tech type people that are looking for work know of these sites as well is because they're technical so they know you know how to use a computer they know how to search for things etc so I think most of them are sort of health inside track on on these jobs it's a question of you know them applying and everything because we're talking everything from the big companies you know the city and county the federal government you H Hawaiian Airlines bank information service there these are all tech jobs for those major corporations as well as many others well you know what you say raises and interesting questions it affects you in a deco you know I'm sure it's different now than it was 18 years ago very and and I'm sure that more people are looking for jobs are fully aware of Craigslist and fully aware that they can go on one of these sites and it'll say employment opportunities and go direct they don't think too much about you they don't think too much about a deco that's really they do their own thing and you know I guess there's also a ratio on the employee side one out of six or whatever it may be not every possibility is going to work that's right but it's yet it's free because it's free with you anyway isn't it if I'm an employee looking for a job I have to pay you know that's it it is free to them and so that that you know raises an interesting question because with the unemployment so low we are getting more employers that are willing to quote iris or use a slightly desperate exactly but of course many times they have started on their own looking and maybe after a month or so they've just given up because they've either gotten a lot of garbage or they are still you know not don't have what they want so then they'll come and go find me sent me I'll pay and you know find me someone right so of course the challenge is finding the person so a lot of times with what's happening is we are having to take people that are already working I mean they you don't necessarily want some of this is sitting on unemployed to fill the jobs the best people are already working right take them away exactly so that's something that we can do that the company can't really call up their competitor and say oh you know guys speak the song so I like to hire he's mad at everybody else so that's something that we can do you see it is part of what our you know job entails so that makes it very interesting you know taking and I've asked some employers I said so out of your competition do you know some fabulous people that are working that you might want and your team you know and sometimes they'll come up with some great ideas and that's a perfect place for me to star in the middle right fantasy agents that's right yeah that's right so that works out really well on the other hand I when I'm talking to candidates I ask them what's your dream job I mean where would you like to work and we can also market the candidates so if they say oh I want to work here I'd want to work there then I tell them you know that I could certainly make it you know make a call check to see what might be available and market them directly yeah so you can give them an angle but I would guess just from what you said up to now is that there's not so many employees looking for work through you as there are employers looking for work through you right now in this market that's right that's right that would be probably the case right now so it makes it a very interesting balance yeah it does yeah this let's let's look at exactly how you would operate on behalf of an employer okay you have to test people that's right you have to find out how good they really are because as you said not everybody gives you the straight skinny on those qualifications so when you're working for an employer and like you could be working for either or both I suppose you know how do you measure the applicant who walks in the door to be sure that you've got somebody who's not going to be a disappointment as against this vacations for the job well if we have a detailed Job Description which obviously we don't always have a deck Oh believe it or not has 3000 assessments so this is everything from you know personality types to basic accounting function you know can they do GL can they do journal entries and they do a RPP role so there are these available that are called assessments but I can email to a potential candidate and see what kind of results everything including typing data entry we can measure all of that how how do you know that somebody isn't just shining you on about their qualifications a part of its going to be smell right are you know you've been around a long time you know and somebody is shining you but how do you tell objectively so you can sort of guarantee it would not guarantee but you know give a a real assurance to the employer that this is real okay so first of all there's these assessments are available that you know I can have them do either in our office or they can do it at home the other thing is that I always check references now you know and I always tell them I want manager your manager references I don't want friends family and co-workers yeah yeah and the reason is I tell them that these references are basically work ethic type references you know how'd you work under pressure how'd you work in the office how did you go along with everybody come in on time but exactly the timing is but the last question is would you rehire this person so a manager is the best person or the person that hired them because if it's a co-worker if it's you know friends or family they can't answer that question you know logically or truthfully so I tell them this is why I always want managers is because of the fact that hopefully your previous managers are gonna say absolutely yes here to lose them it was wonderful and everything so that's another check so we've got the assessment and we've got reference judgment you know I love this conversation and you're gonna love my next question which is gonna be right after this break and my next question just put you on notice is how can you tell when the reference is telling you the truth we'll be right back and Sandra is gonna answer that question think-tank that Sandra ohhara this is think tape Hawaii raising public awareness [Music] thank you [Music] from the foundation for a better life Aloha my name is Marx klav I am the host of think Tech Hawaii's law across the sea law across the sea comes on every other Monday at 11 a.m. please join us I like to bring in guests that talk about all types of things that come across the sea to Hawaii not just law love people ideas history please join us for law across the sea bingo I told you we'd be back and we are back with Sandra O'Hara of adecco she's a tech employment specialist for 18 long years and she doesn't look 18 yet that's the magic of it whatever it is it's doing well and it agrees with you Sandra well thank you so meisinger question okay call up the the boss and you know you can do all kinds of different answers it's never the to same and they're not necessarily trained in how to respond to you you know sometimes yes I know and they may say sorry Sandra we never disclosed information like that now that's laden with meaning lady this meeting what what do you make of it when this manager person that was listed as a resume as a reference um says something like sorry we don't you know and believe it or not there are many corporations that don't allow their people to give references so they will give an answer like all you have to call HR or they can tell you that oh they work from this date to this date but I'm sorry we can't provide you name rank it seriously so that does come up believe it or not there are times if I have of either red flags or the chemistry is just not doesn't seem right you don't have to contact people that are on a person's reference in other words this is a small town so if I see that they've worked at the bank of hawaii and and believe it or not our clients do the same things they don't care what a person says their reference is they'll call up somebody they know and they say well give me the real scoop on this is that okay absolutely even if the employer employees of the applicant doesn't know that you're calling that's right it's okay to call it small-town some very values right and I've had that happen because I've had clients go I think I'm gonna do some checking myself they'll call them you know they'll look at the resumes they'll see a company they know and they'll pick up the phone to call the president President to president you know could you give me the real scoop on it to be a prisoner so-and-so I say you can't control that right it's a free world it's it's open information you can't say don't call this person don't call this person anybody worried about defamation that kind of claim I mean suppose and this is a you know sort of extreme example but suppose the the CEO says you know that that applicants terrible and it's really awful and don't hire him or her and it's because he doesn't like them it's because it's not really true now the people worried about defamation in this context I'm not sure in that context because if it was an exception like only one person you know but others it just raised about this person then it could be a real personal thing right because they're people have personal vendetta although that's right it's a very small time so again as I said I would you know really you know do due diligence and try to cover as much so you try to get triangulation on various points of view just make it fair to everybody you know to the applicants as well so now suppose you get I really enjoyed this conversation suppose you get a reference a manager and the manager without any corporate policy on it says I know I never discussed I can't discuss that and there's no good reason you know there's no corporate policy small company but that's what he or she says to you I mean do you ever take away a message that something went wrong here exactly and he is trying to protect himself but also you know doesn't want to mix think with the employee so he's going to just give you a flat affect exactly how can you tell when that's real or not well I don't know about telling whether that's real or not but I'm what I would do is I would move on to other references in other words you know it's not fair like you mentioned it's just a one person did like they also that if they also that then that should be a very big right that birds of property that's right that's right so anyway but again just to be fair to everybody you know that that's where I would do with my due diligence and and continue further okay okay flip it on to the other side of the coin now suppose you get a manager who says Joe Doakes is the kindest most wonderful human being I have ever known in my life and he's so great and wonderful and on and on and on and on to the point where it's it's like verbally how do you deal with that because you know sometimes that's not true that's right that's not true and he's just a kind of person for one reason or another who feels he has to boost his maybe it's a deal going on with him and the employee the app again oh how do you engage that well that's why you don't base everything on one reference right that's why you have to you know continue on with multiple references and to just to see what you know what checks out the checks and balances so I would definitely not just stop with one yeah especially we came back like that yeah now do you do you reveal what you learned you feel what you learned ice assumes your client the employer you ever tell the employee what you learned in your inquiries not not in a direct sense because it really is confidential we don't you know I usually I use a form actually an outline where there's some set questions but we don't tell the employer or you know I'm so sorry but so-and-so you know what's not a good reference yeah that's not a good reference because it is very future relationship that's right that's right so we don't you know share them and everything but I was gonna mention a couple of things I don't know if your readers read their Hawaii business news but we were featured in in an issue in April of last year where they talked about all the different headhunters and it was called secrets of headhunters okay and it's really it's really nice it includes not only a deco as you can see the first page but our you know others in the field are quote competitors as well and it is amazed me I have candidates walking in that have made copies of this article and look in my picture they go oh we came to you because we saw your page I thought well that's really quite wait till you see what happens after this show I said well I was telling your people before you came in that I wanted to also offer your listeners something adecco publishes a salary guide and believe it or not you know most most things that are done with companies that are based on the mainland they never include Hawaii but a deco does include Hawaii in terms of salary guide so I you know was clicking and thinking that oh I would tell your listeners that they can you know pick up the salary guys from my office well so the last one I had to state in 2017 and I was asking my manager well do we have you know others and can I offer you know the people that are listening to come by our office and pick them up he goes well it's all online now so what you need to do is make sure that they have your email address and so yours station does have my email I just that whoever's interested can send us an email and then we will you know entered in a form and we will get them a sound guy so this would be helpful to both the HR managers right yeah because it gives all this information on all the different types of jobs as well as to perspective people looking for work yeah you know what you're worse that's right this is really important when you're sharing your salary that's right so I thought that'd be interesting to offer it to your listeners to please contact me and my email address is going to be published and so therefore I mean I'll be more than happy to say Sandra ohhara at adecco na komm and because I don't want them to misspell the adecco na they said that they are putting it on okay yeah and so I you know I'd love to hear from your listeners that would like a copy of the latest 2018 salary guide that's nob it's the grease that facilitates the whole process to know where you want but I want to take the last few minutes of our discussion aside to talk about what's happened in the 18 years in terms of the market in this state you know I remember the days and you do too because that's when we met of 221 of all these startup calm that had money coming in investment money from one source or another through to 21 they had the money burn so to speak and and and they hired a lot of people is with very active market and I remember all these tech events and organizational meetings where you were there yeah you were inventive everybody coming over you it's a house and here's my card Sandra you know it's not the same anymore 221 went down a lot of the talent left town and it's in the both inter interdependent the tech companies in the tech talent if I can't find tech talent I'm not gonna have a tech company if I'm tech talent I can't find a company I'm not gonna I'm not gonna hear what we say around and after 2:21 went down I remember a lot of tech talent left town summarily that was that so okay let's assume that but how has the mix of jobs changed you talk about information technology well you know there's also biochemistry there's I mean there's all the sciences in the university all those startups that once existed I don't know if they still do are you still involved in that what is the situation now compared to say 2003 or for I'm not as involved mainly because I know that they're there because I've attended some of these open house events but they have cohorts right and there yeah I mean they look like they're in high school almost but you know they definitely seem to be you know coming up with opportunities and they're being given money to do to do what they're doing so I think it's still alive and well but it's just on a much smaller scale than when 2:21 was extremely active and we could see a lot more money pouring in so it's it's nice to see that there you know people that's right there's something going on you know the you know Hank Rogers and his group is still that's right and so that you know that that still exists so that's very encouraging on the scale issue that you mentioned a minute ago it seems to me that Hawaii had aspirations of having large scale here I mean I remember at Cadman's view of the of the tech campus around the medical school didn't happening you know all kinds of possibilities where there would be a you know a lot of tech he's come from the mainland your business here hire local and all this didn't happen and so the question I put to you in minutes is really something that I think about all the time is if it was aspirational back in the early 2000s and if it is sort of slowed down maybe a lot actually slowed down since that time around the the end of 221 what are the probabilities possibilities now you know Hawaii dreamed so hard all the dreamers in Hawaii dreamed about this becoming a tech state and when we speak of diversification we're speaking of diversification into tech not innovation tech that's what it was because we knew that on the mainland things big things were happening and second value it so the question is you know when you take when you take a reduction the way we did for one reason or another and here we are now this is still possible for Hawaii to be a state that is seriously diversified into technology or is that something that has come and gone you know I'm gonna say it does appear that it is somewhat come and gone and that's why this whole construction industry is just booming and look at all the you know cranes and and look at all what's going on in Kakaako both in affordable housing as well as you know multi-million dollar you know penthouses as well so I think that that is what has drawn the market is a lot of that has taken and taken over which is in a way unfortunate because you know tech is an exciting industry there's so much potential yes you know and so I don't know what if I you know would honestly say that it's dead but it's definitely on the back burner as compared to what it was when we were in a stay on one of the great takeaways from me at this discussion is that you're not only doing tech you're hedging your bets with construction okay and I remember seriously one tech a lot of people were coming a lot of local kids we had made some money on the mainland we came back in the early 2000s to be involved in the tech industry everybody thought was going to happen which didn't happen but a lot of them stayed some of them left they said this isn't working out I got to go now of a southern state and they went into other industries and I'm not gonna name his name but there was one guy who was pretty famous at the time who had made money in the mail and came back everybody had great expectations gonna do fantastic things that didn't work out so he went into real estate any word for a developer developing properties and so my question to you this was the last question I would have time to ask slander this is if I were a young person a little adrift about what I was going to do but dedicated to be in Hawaii a millennial say from all that you know about the markets that are here you know the the markets that have demand what should i what should i do what should I study what should I you know address myself to as a good job it'll take me to a good career allow me to buy my house and stay here I think boy that's a tough one I mean that's that's a really a tough one because as I said with the Millennials now part of to me their problem is you know they're working thing it's like what's in it for me you know so it's very challenging for them to seek out some of these careers because of that you know so in terms of what is the next up-and-coming thing one of the things that I know I was I'm privy to seeing is combining the real estate arena with high-tech they're doing some phenomenal 3d you know comic selling properties modeling probably exactly but it's very you know upscale and it's very sophisticated so you can see these fabulous apartments and they're doing these panoramic views and you can see what views you can see out the windows and things like that so a kind of combining tech with you know brick and mortar yeah okay classical industries hotels for example our real estate is perfect example all aspects of real estate I know some people who've made money this way I think you're absolutely right and then you take it you know the tech is the tail that wags the dog so that's right and all of a sudden you're making big money on a classic you know conventional industry by clicking it right exactly so that to me is what's exciting is that's what's going to end the merger of of the two you know it's the way of the future it's about to know that when people come in to see you I mean are you gonna be available asunder when people come in to see you to say look I'm adrift I'm a millennial I don't know what to do I'll have to get home I can't get a job would you please counsel with me I'll give you my CV I'll give you my grades tell me what you think would you talk to that person absolutely absolutely my door is open I love to talk to you know all kinds of people because it really gives me insight as well right and as I said it's I believe that everybody is employable and so by finding out more about you know these different people I believe that there are jobs for them so it's not you know it's not a cookie cutter thing and that's why I love talking to you you need the system can't afford you Thank You sundar said O'Hara adecco my friend for a long long time still doing it and doing it well thank you so much thank you [Music] you [Music]