Sign Indiana Banking RFP Computer

Industry sign banking indiana rfp computer

good afternoon and welcome uh to this editorial webinar by banking exchange i'm eric vander kolk publisher and ceo as you may know we have more than 30 000 subscribers to our news site that work at banks of all sizes and as most of you know we are a daily news site that focuses on the overall operations of banking from time to time we partner though with experts to provide editorial-based webinars on expertise that go beyond our main focus but is of interest to our readers that is why today we've partnered with otc markets in providing this webinar at no cost to america's banking industry we asked laura hamilton to join us and speak to us about some of the things every bank should consider in choosing a specific partner a number of important things surrounding investor relations and what decisions should go into a small to mid-sized banks decision making process as they consider if to stay private or to take the step of going public laura thank you for joining us thanks eric for having me today i appreciate it laura is a vice president of corporate services at otc markets group where she focuses on new business development for community banks across the u.s in this role laura manages the otcqx banks market where she advises both private and public community banks on trading and liquidity in the u.s equity markets since 2017 laura has helped over 125 community banks trade on otcqx including many that went public on the market prior to joining otc markets laura specialized in corporate development and worked in corporate finance at jpmorgan chase she received her bs and financed from the university of maryland um she is laura is going to walk through a relatively expensive expensive extensive presentation and as laura goes through the presentation for us if you have any questions that come up please send them to us and then if time permits we'll try and get to your questions and if not one of us will reach out to you within the next 24 hours thank you again laura for for coming and um we're looking forward to learning today and hearing what you have to say so please take it away thank you eric uh thank you everybody for joining today on your busy tuesday afternoon we do appreciate it as eric mentioned we are going to discuss public trading for u.s banks today and like eric mentioned i managed all community banking at otc markets where we do own and operate the otcqx market now knowing that many of you are currently bankers that work at a variety of banks across the board whether you are traded otc or you might be traded on the exchanges or you might be privately held on with with your own market internally or or stock not available for sale we'll address all these different topics however to start off who is otc markets group so otc markets is an equities market we've been around for well over 100 years we own and operate the otcqx best market as i mentioned we actually have over 11 000 securities that trade on our market this is including a number of community banks we actually have um more community banks traded on otc than the exchanges combined we also have large foreign companies like air canada roche pharmaceuticals heineken that all trade via our markets to access us investors also the company ourselves are also traded on the otcqx market under the ticker symbol otcm so any questions you have about our company any of our quarterly financials are all available on otcmarkets.com under our ticker symbol we operate the actual market where trades do occur via our otc link ats ats stands for alternative trading system as we are not in exchange and this up to this point of the year we've seen about 320 billion in dollar volume trade on our market and our companies comprise over 18 trillion of total market capitalization so thinking about the public markets there's a couple of options the the ones that typically come to mind for a lot of people are the typical the large u.s stock exchanges this would be the new york stock exchange or nasdaq the other markets would be our our markets that are owned and operated by otc markets otcqx which is our top tier otcqb which is our venture market and really the differences between the two is that the otc market is broker driven this means that if you place a trade via your brokerage account say a fidelity or an e-trade it gets routed to various brokers to place a trade for you however the exchanges are electronic matching engines so while you'll still go through the same brokerage accounts to place those trades typically the computer will automatically match you with another buyer or seller instead of being directed to a broker looking into some of our markets more from the otc side and again being broker driven we have otcqx otcqb and pink which is our open market and the default market so otcqx is the highest market a company can trade on without being on the exchanges it is has high financial standards it's most investor friendly and has a number of reporting requirements this market does not allow any penny stocks shells or bankrupt companies to qualify and or trade on the market otcqb is our middle tier in our venture market we typically see a lot of early stage and pre-revenue companies trade here the while we do have high financial standards for this market they are lower than the qx market again because the qx is the premier market um and then the pink has no rules or regulations it's not investor friendly it's again a very much a bottom market or a default market flipping to the next stock slide you might be asking well what is otcqx for bangs have i heard of this phrase before and if if you have fantastic if not i'm going to introduce you to it we created otcqx for banks back in 2014 as an extension of our overall otcqx market we created this as a result of the 2012 jobs act which changed the threshold for when banks had to be sec filing or not as a result of this rule change we saw a number of banks um voluntarily deregister their stock from the sec and drop to the tank market at this time the only options were pink or the exchanges such as nasdaq or the new york stock exchange so we created this sector of otcqx for banks again with high financial standards and rules and requirements to give a middle ground for banks to really choose what kind of market they wanted to trade on are you shareholder friendly are you investor friendly how do you provide ultimate liquidity for your shareholders without necessarily having to pay the fees and spend the time of doing sec filing and reporting we do we do like i mentioned have high financial standards and i will go into some of those later on in today's presentation so again this is the highest market a bank can actually trade on without having to be sec filing which makes it very niche to the banking community and a really good opportunity for a number of banks a for a variety of reasons we also do have an otcqx bank index that tracks the benchmarking of the banks that are traded on this market which is a great tool based on just looking at an embassy however right now it's a benchmarking tool so you're not going to see the volatility such as a bank that might be on the exchanges and have some of the volatility that occurs if you are in the russell index and again i will touch on that in more detail in a few minutes so who who makes up the otcqx banks market we have a hundred banks that currently trade on the market asset sizes range anywhere from about 100 million in assets to about five billion in assets so it's not just a market for any one shape or size of a bank it very much matters of your bank of your shareholder base what you're looking for and the types of investors that you are looking to um to get into your stock as well so each year we do a 2020 otcqx top 50 or best 50 companies um this past year banks comprised 20 of that market which in that list which is very exciting and fantastic just based on the returns and the performance of these various bank stocks since 2018 we have added 50 new banks to the otcqx market and we've had 25 banks go public on otcqx since we created it in 2014. they've done this via what we call a slow po otherwise known as a slow public offering which is very similar to what is known as a direct listing where you can go public without necessarily raising capital a number of banks have done private placements before doing this but there have been a number of banks that have not raised capital and then also have had their shares become traded on otcqx it's significantly less expensive than trading on the exchanges and that's what is very um marketable and which is in just many banks really enjoys the fact that they can get the liquidity the liquidity that they're looking for help their shareholders without the cost and complexity of the exchanges we've even had a number of things voluntarily lead the exchanges since 2014. um 12 of them have come over the majority of them have been registered from the sec again because it is significantly less expensive and they those banks have saved well over 250 000 per year and many have actually increased their dividends as a result so that makes for some very happy shareholders you can see a chart here of our stock index that i mentioned in the previous slide we have outperformed the snl u.s bank index um for the patent past number of years just continuously and you'll also see that valuations volumes prices are typically higher on qx compared to our other market peers flipping to the next slide so this is more so for those bankers that are on this call that are currently privately held so you might be asking yourself well should i go public should i have a public market are shareholders asking me for liquidity what should i do we've had quite the year in 2020 as i'm sure is of no surprise saying that phrase to anyone um between covid and ppp and just the overall market volatility there's been a lot of question marks and uncertainty as we were in the tail end of 2020 and as we look to 2021 and say what's next some of these banks might have been thinking about trading their stock and having a public market for this year and then kovid just did a 180 on any of those plans so what's the number one benefit one is the visibility the bank is able to access various tools to tell your growth story whether that be regular press releases whether that be your earnings whether that be investor conferences or non-deal road shows doing video interviews again things i'll get into further down in this presentation that we're able to offer you as a market but that's number one is how visible do you want to be in terms of growing your stock i think every shareholder should be a customer and every customer should be a shareholder so then how do you grow that customer base and then ultimately your shareholder base furthermore confidence and trust in the market uh having transparency and communication just again leads to confidence and that therefore leads to further investment um with this it just provides a further transparency into the stock making your financials available something that you might do on an email list but having greater a greater spectrum is positive just even by doing regional news press releases and then also the valuation access to capital having your stock as a currency is very important if you're thinking about m a and the m a market by having that public market we typically do see prices increase as a result of having more trades again this is based on the liquidity of the bank stock which is a function of supply and demand the price transparency and your trading history where you're traded your market participants and how many shares you have traded something i like to tell banks when they're thinking about a public market is to not expect to trade like an apple or google the average community bank has two to three million shares total outstanding so just based on numbers alone and everybody likes math here you can't trade like apple or google because the shares outstanding do not support their daily trade activity but that does not mean there is not liquidity if you're able to get liquidity for your shareholders and they're able to buy and sell shares freely you are doing your job to access liquidity for for your shareholders um to the next slide a number of challenges facing qma banks i mean there's a number of public marketplace options where you get the opportunity to decide what is best for you your bank and your shareholders as well as your investors how do you want to stay organic or how do you want to stay competitive do you want to grow organically or do you want to grow via mma i know there's been a lot of chat and a lot of articles recently about what the m a landscape is going to look like in 2021 are you going to be a buyer or are you going to be a seller or something to think about of course everyone's for sale at the right price but what is the ultimate growth of both your management team and your shareholders and your board um again it's hard to find information on community banks something that we've tried to do to help out is call reports you have to dig through a number of websites typically find one from a bank we actually have a data platform called caravan q a r q-a-r-a-v-a-n where any bank that is traded on otc markets we automatically pull in their call reports on a quarterly basis due to the number of investors and shareholders that come to our website on a monthly basis to be able to have easy access to those financials and we're trying to make more information available in the marketplace and then thinking about another challenge from a community bank standpoint is what is your shareholder base that i keep talking about is it somebody that is a third or fourth generation shareholder in the bank stock that might live across the country now um do you have an aging population are you a de novo from say 2005 and you have shareholders that are 15 years in and really initially agreed to seven or eight years to hold the stock and are now looking for an exit so just thinking through some of these opportunities of course you know your shareholder base the best but what can you do from a stockholder trend and going back to this is what i've pretty much touched upon is understanding your shareholder base and just identifying any previous buyers or sellers are you looking for retailer institutional shareholders as well as banks typically begin to grow and typically need capital some banks want to raise capital just in the local community go around the table and raise a couple million dollars that way others are looking for institutional investors in various funds to buy into the stock that may be long-term holders which can also leave m a opportunities and or long-term growth probably the number one question i get from banks that are currently privately held in thinking about the public markets is what about activists and activism if i have my stock traded whether it's otc market or an exchange can an activist come in the answer is yes of course however do not be scared about that i it's so rare to actually see that it's less than a one percent chance i would gather um so while there is always that option it's so rare that i would not let that fear really drive any decisions around the public market because at the end of the day the liquidity and the visibility the growth that you can see the investors that you can access is typically going to be significantly greater than that one risk that's very unlikely to happen um so i do just want to settle any concerns or questions around that again that is the number one question that i get and it is so rare to see that happen um how and also for those bankers on this call that do not have any institutional investors just because an institutional um investor may be in the stock that doesn't mean that they're an activist it does not mean that they're going to be looking for a board seat they're both passive institutional investors as well as more active ones but again even they're active does not mean that they're an activist so when you're discussing this around the board make sure that you're thinking about each of these pieces within the investment community and how some firms differ from others there's it's great ways to gr w capital grow your shareholder base and bring the bank to further growth so then also just thinking about what i mentioned where your investors located what's the average age of your investor are some of these shareholders going to be looking for liquidity in the near future so when looking at new shareholders think about those that will support the bank's strategic goals and how they can help the bank moving on to the next slide so thinking about again a market to support your stock whether you're currently publicly traded or not if you have increased liquidity you're going to reduce volatility in the share price remember liquidity the function supply and demand and the price transparency the trading history in the market venue the market participants and the tradable shares i.e your public float so going back to what i mentioned about typically banks having two to three million shares outstanding if you don't trade a trillion shares a day that does not mean you have liquidity again because you have two to three million shares outstanding you just can't trade that number but that doesn't mean there isn't liquidity as long as there's able to be um buyers buyers and sellers at fair prices at any given point you are achieving liquidity in the marketplace what's also really relevant is distributing timely financial disclosure and material information your call reports are due 30 days after quarter end so this is something again that i mentioned that we need to bring to the market from a transparency standpoint if your bank is releasing earnings releases uh via a wire service you are going to get greater exposure and distribution of your financials and this this year it's been really exciting to see how much focus has been on community banks and how much they stood out with the ppp program earlier this year i mean it really showed that community banks are a necessity in the u.s economy as well as our local markets and that while while big banks are there to stay it doesn't mean that people aren't going to use their community banks and they actually ended up outperforming a number of the large banks via the paycheck protection program again so um then going into who's trading your stock um get to know your market makers your local brokers those that will help you identify other buyers or sellers and then again you can also do software purchases or dived reinvestment plans to further support your stock moving on to the next slide here's a case study of a bank in indiana they were privately held they joined the otcqx best market back in 2018 um they've grown in asset size since joining um they began in the sixty dollar range and they're around eighty dollars um their market cap increased pretty quickly by seven point two million dollars which is pretty significant for a bank um they have seen volume they have seen tradability the bank has issued pressure releases and done the right steps and they are achieving multiplicity for their shareholders so then thinking about the banks that are on this call that might be traded on the exchanges right now there's a couple things to think about we've seen share price for those banks that have left of nasdaq to come and trade otc2x as i mentioned we have had uh 12 banks do so um in the last handful of years we have seen that prices gone up we've also seen their volume go up and this goes back to being an electronic matching engine of the exchanges versus the broker-driven market of otc markets otcqx has a support from a number of market makers and a number of fantastic financial firms many of which that you know um those include d.a davidson janney kbw hubby raymond james piper sandler stephen webb bush and a number of others so why do banks leave nasdaq to come over to otcqx number one is really the cost if a bank is not in the russell index which many of them are not and the russell index is really a two-sided sword a lot of people think that the russell index is the end-all be-all well that's really the case in the thought process when stocks are going up but if we think back to march of 2020 when the bottom was really hitting and everybody did not know what was happening kovid was becoming a very harsh reality those were the first stocks to drop and the financial sector got hit very hard so that's where the russell index is a two-sided sword and most people do talk about the ups but forget to mention the downs so some banks again if you're not seeing a ton of volume that's really going to hurt your stock and i've seen too many bank stocks that are say under 200 million in market cap drop significantly as a result of this volatility for those things that aren't in that and are not close to being into it and do not want that volatility the benefit of trading on otcqx is really again uh having the broker-driven market to help trade your shares there that's where we do see the higher prices and the higher volume it's also significantly less expensive with today's interest rate environment the banks that i speak to on a regular basis everyone is going through cost-cutting exercises as we are preparing our 2021 budgets so is this something that you're looking to to keep in there the average cost savings of a bank leaving nasbac to join otcqx is 250 000 per year if not more this is a combination of listing fees scc filing fees the time spent doing these projects um audit fees as well as a number of other variables so that's where we've seen that happen we've had two banks voluntarily leave nasdaq enjoying otc earlier this year as well just as a result again of cost savings and their volume and pricing has been has not changed significantly in terms or if anything has gone up um but i can always refer back to that later i know i keep talking about visibility and liquidity and what we can do to help the banks as your market if the bank is on the otcqx market we have a very large visibility investor relations program that the banks are eligible to take advantage of we operate virtual investor conferences and even if the bank is not on otcqx this does not mean a bank is not eligible to participate um we do welcome all banks they just get priority to joining um in priority um pricing when it comes to virtual investor conferences so with this it would be the equivalent of attending a virtual or not a virtual an investor conference but without traveling you as a ceo or cfo are able to dial in put your presentation on the screen and be in a webinar format just like we are today and then get walk through your slides into potential investors both retail and institutional violin and we do see many banks receive one-on-one requests as a result of this it's a very efficient use of your time a great way to tell your story and a great way to get your name out there to the investment community we also offer ceo interviews um we do a number of video interviews that we then are able to post on our website that they can push out social media campaigns with them it's a great way again to help share your story we also do written ones that show up in our monthly banks newsletter we also do market openings this is our version of a bell ringing ceremony where we invite companies into our office or since march 2020 via zoom to open up our market in a bell ringing like ceremony it's exciting many companies choose to do this on their first day of trading press releases i've already touched upon if a bank does need help with them we're always happy to review them and help um provide other examples of banks that have strong pressure releases to help highlight banks earnings uh the otcqx banks index i've mentioned and then you also have access to our otc market center in new york city which right now of course due to coven it is currently closed but we look forward to the day that we can reopen it and host companies again um we have views of the statute of liberty and are right near the world trade center and looking at liquidity there's if you look at the upper right hand corner here going back to the differences between otcqx and nasdaq you'll see that trade size and spreads are very similar between qx and nasdaq for banks that are under a billion in assets thinking about blue skies for our premium markets um otcqx has exemptions in 37 states this means that brokers and traders can help solicit and recommend the bank's stock in these 37 locations if you are on a qb you get 34 states and if you're on pink you do not get any states automatically you would need to get manual exemptions this just increases the trade-ability of the stock as well as how you can get potential shareholders into it it's a very large benefit for banks to have blue sky coverage and you do get a blue sky report to be able to see what states you get automatic exemptions in a number of banks have more than 37 states if they're on qx and then thinking about trading how market makers get involved in a bank stock so on the left here is a bank that's traded on pink very few market makers in the stock if you look on the right it's a qx bank stock and it is larger but you'll see the list of market makers via their real-time level two quotes we are the only market that will display this level of information and the bid ask spread as well as the time stamps of when and dates of when um those those values were added by the market makers so um 91 of otc volume is non-penny stocks this is why we do see more volume on otcqx since penny stocks are not allowed to trade here um again a lot of the trading is done in bank stocks as well as the large international companies that have their f shares or abrs on our market like the air canada as well pharmaceuticals and adidas um but like i said earlier you can also place an order via your brokerage account and it flows through to the market makers um the orders flow through our trading platform but just note that otc market does not price the transactions the prices are determined by the market makers which is a common misconception so thinking about otcqx an additional benefit of the market is that you have a corporate sponsor this is a finra market or a finra member broker dealer that specializes in trading and advising community bank stocks um each one has been pre-approved by otc markets to sponsor a bank to join our market this really gives a third party stamp of approval saying the bank is in good financial standing um in a good good place to be eligible to trade on our market and it's one of our requirements to trade there these corporate sponsors will provide guidance on trading um make a market in the bank stock help support it um with any investor needs investment banking needs um or any any other capital market support the bank does is looking for so if you're looking to join otcqx what is the process well it's actually pretty straightforward um typically you do consult your corporate sponsor a number of firms are listed on this slide here you submit an application to otc markets for otcqx which goes through a number of the share structure and various information about the bank that we do our due diligence on from our compliance standpoint um if you are currently a private bank the corporate sponsor needs to file what's called a form 15 c dash 211. this is a forum that goes through finra to help establish a public market it typically takes six to eight weeks to get approval on and this is how again you get a ticker symbol and get approval for the public market if you're currently on pink or otcqb or the exchanges you do you already have a ticker symbol so the step does not apply to you um would you require a transfer agent to trade on otcqx so if the bank does not have one of those you will need to get it while is not required we strongly suggest the bank has dtc eligibility this means that shares can clear electronically and you don't need to send share certificates to a transfer agent to the new buyer or seller after completing a trade and everything is done in book entry format if you already have a transfer agent and dtc again you can skip this step um if you are currently private we then wait for the 15c 211 to clear via finra we finished writing a press release for the bank uh which is published on the first day of trading on otcqx and then the bank starts trading on otc accent and it's a really exciting day we do a big visibility program for for when they join for when banks join market announcements social media pushes um if the bank wanted to do a market open uh that is done on that day as well as the press release that i mentioned so going back to some of the qualifications uh to join otcqx um you do need to have a dollar bid price over 10 million dollar market cap which most banks have you can be either sec filing or bank reporting again the threshold to be non fcc filing is under 1200 shareholders of records which means it's of record so if you have a hundred accounts at morgan stanley that's going to count as one shareholder of record so when you are doing your accounts there just don't forget that caveat um a number of pieces here like i mentioned you cannot be bankrupt you cannot be a penny stock you cannot be a shell company we do require an annual audit by a pc aob auditor we do require quarterly reports and earnings releases um from a quarterly standpoint we do want to see your balance sheet an income statement while we do pull through your call reports the average investor is much simpler for them to read and understand that balance sheet income statement from from the viewpoint we do require you to verify your company profile your shares outstanding any material news must be disclosed so if you're a non-sec filer i like to baseline this by saying if you were sep filing and you were right in 8k on something that needs to be pushed out via a press release on otcqx if you are a non-sec filer so that will be if you have a change in management team a change in board if you are buying a bank if you're selling the bank any of these large material events do need to be reported um we do require you to have two independent directors you need to have an audit committee and you need to have your annual shareholder meetings and you might be asking yourself well this sounds great but but what's it cost so our annual fee is 23 000 and there's a one-time five thousand dollar application fee um this is significantly less expensive than the exchanges um which charge anywhere around 50 000 plus annually from a listing fee and their their application fees are significantly higher as well um so just from a compare contrast standpoint um but those are our qualifications at this time um there's my contact information i welcome any questions but i would like to open the floor for any questions to answer and i appreciate everybody's time today and listening to thoughts around the public market laura thanks so much that was really really thorough but also 37 minutes long which is really short um and thorough so really appreciate that just putting my editorial hat on i know this is a bit off topic but thank you for pointing out today in particular that community banks um we welcome all banks of course um to banking exchange but the value of community banks definitely shine through as you said uh through the ppp and just in general the need for them this year in the midst of of the market i'm sure you agree so thank you for for pointing that out um uh we did actually get a number of questions in so um uh i'm gonna read a few of these the first one um that uh i think is a general question in the market that comes specifically to this decision-making process do you think there will be more industry consolidated in one and how should that affect the decision-making process around around this topic in particular absolutely thank you so i think there will be significant um consolidation in 2021 i think that the pace has been very slow this year due to the uncertainties of the market i think that a lot of management teams are probably saying i wish i had a crystal ball back in 2019 and say why did i not sell now when the valuations are a lot higher um but i think that there will be some good deals still um the biggest thing to think about when in terms of the industry consolidation is and the bank's decision with where you trade if you're traded what o you want to do for the next couple of years is the bank first need to think about is do you want to be a buyer or do you want to be a seller and and i know i mentioned earlier that anyone will sell for the right price but if you're thinking about growth and strategy sticking around longer i i'd put the bank into a buyer category so i think the bank needs to think about using the stock as a currency um between cash and stock deals going forward as that can build a higher valuation a number of banks are concerned with how banks are valued right now going into the market but the market really does find a fair market price for a bank stock um it might not be on day one but it ultimately does get there so you do have to trust the process and know that having that stock as a currency can make you significantly stronger and potentially get you a better deal or get you a bank that you might not have been able to achieve um just with cash alone if the right opportunity comes up i think also thinking about the shareholder value for that decision making process is what are your shareholders looking for are they looking for that long-term growth that value um if you're trading over the desk currently if you're private that is an onerous process is antiquated having that that risk reduced by having a public market can further help your shareholders and typically when trading over a president's desk you don't see as much fluctuation in price where the public markets can help you find that really fair evaluation okay great um but i think we have time for a couple more um so on this next couple um obviously we we want you to always be objective but um uh these kind of go more macro and and determining things the next question is is there an ideal size or a minimum size that you would recommend uh before taking um a bank public whether it's with otc markets or or in general you know whether it's um pink sheet or or or uh an exchange thanks um so i think that's a great question i i've seen companies um have a stock that become traded that are under 100 million assets i've seen stocks that are still private at five billion plus so i think that what it comes down to is the shareholder base if the bank is a family-owned bank and it only has a handful of shareholders the public market isn't necessarily going to do them what they're looking for unless they're open to selling shares to bring new shareholders into the market um i would say the average asset size is anywhere from 300 million to 2 2 billion that do go public on otcqx um however um i've seen banks do it closer to 5 billion in assets that have joined qx as well after being privately held um so i would think about having a couple hundred shareholders typically to meet the needs and to access liquidity for them as well as to help tell that growth story um so so i don't think there's necessarily the right size i think it's based on the shareholder base and the combination of the bank's goals and strategies um and not to be too overwhelmed by hitting an asset threshold okay great okay now i'm really laura gonna ask you to try your best to be objective on this this last question um uh basically the the question here is what um you had mentioned the nasdaq market you mentioned some others what should i think about when determining which market is best for our stock is it just about assets what are what are some things to think about and are are there particular places that might be better than others and uh for a different reason um if you could just help us through that that would be that seems like a great question absolutely so i think the two things to really think about is the tradability and the visibility of the bank and the stock in the bank's goals from that standpoint if you are looking for that liquidity and that visibility and do not want to be an sec filer the otcqx market is is a great choice for the bank just because it does offer all those things at a low cost threshold or price point and it really helps you access a number of these tools to help you grow your market cap grow your shareholder base increase your trading volume um increase the bank's story and does help you get to that next level for banks that are set on just ipowing i think if you're going to be under 150 200 million in market cap uh just just seeing banks do that to me that's personally a tough sell seeing banks that have done it and not seeing the volume that they were expecting some banks will do an ipo and still only trade two thousand three thousand shares a day which might not be what they were looking for um and i think something to also note is that the bank is looking to ipo you're going to need a very significant amount of capital and in today's environment most just the capital is just not the way people are going we're going and get capital markets instead of equity capital markets so the market isn't necessarily right for it um also just just to note for banks that are looking the ipo route a lot of times the first day of trading is sold is the end game and the finish line but it's really the starting line being public is a marathon and not a sprint it takes a lot of time and effort from being from opening up the gates to having a public stock so the bank really needs to know their story well be able to tell it be able to market the bank before going up to necessarily the higher market tiers i think otcqx is a great starting point and or ending point for any banks again that are looking to not have the sec filing pieces or are looking for ways um and advise being advised on how to do better press releases how to expand their market share um there's a number again it comes down to tradability and visibility when thinking about which market is best okay and if the bank is not going to trade and might never trade and has three shareholders i would question then that and then what is the purpose of having a public market right is that necessary for you good that was objective thank you absolutely all of this was objective um so thank you so much um uh i i really appreciate that um and we're gonna kind of wrap up now but i know there are a couple of more questions that are that are um on our q a um so i think it will probably be laura um that will will follow up with directly with um with you on on those questions um uh and so thank you again for for that laura thanks so much for that presentation and thank you for providing insight for our readers um i will say again uh we really appreciate this because this this is truly um a uh an editorial webinar what what does that mean we do have webinars that that are paid from from uh fintech firms and others we truly see this as a as a partnership uh with otc markets group because uh they they really do uh provide a service to many of our readers so um thank you for that i'm sure we will ask uh you back again earlier in 2021 thank you also for all of those that i've attended today we are going to be following up with information packets to provide further information on the topic banking in exchange we'll have another editorial webinar next month um in december um that will also be of no cost to the bankers but again i really do appreciate um everyone at otc markets that that have come and thank you for for attending we will have this webinar um in its entirety uh uh probably by thursday on on banking exchange in case you've missed part of it um you can go back to it um and and uh and if you have other questions obviously uh uh please reach out uh there's so much more uh that we could go into with this so um thank you laura again have a great week for everyone that's attended and if you if you need anything from from us please don't hesitate to reach out thanks again you