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three are members of the uh st david society of pittsburgh board and uh excuse me i just have to uh i saw pembroke child has joined us from state college great to have you on board pembroke uh anyway the three panelists that we have today in order of presentation are fred long as i mentioned to uh some of you already fred is joining us from his home in aberystwyth wales today uh that's the caridiggian bay behind you right uh fred yeah yes yeah yeah yeah and he is going to be uh giving us an overall summary of the migration from wales to pennsylvania starting with a quakers in the late 18th century fred is the co-chair of the wales pennsylvania project for the saint david society and then next we're going to have dale richards dale is joining us here from pittsburgh and he's going to be focusing on migration to the southwestern pennsylvania area among other things and dale is the co-chair of the uh welsh nationality realm for st david society which of course is must be known as located at the university of pittsburgh and uh and myself i'm the third panelist i am the other co-chair of the boyle's pennsylvania project along with fred i'll be moderating today's session and so much as anyone can moderate a gathering of welsh people i will be trying to do that and i often say what a moderator does is make sure that everybody that wants to have a chance to talk uh does have a chance to talk so i will be paying attention to raised hands questions in the chat box etc and in addition to that i'll be the uh third presenter and i'm going to be talking just a little bit about welsh immigration to the northwestern pennsylvania area now i've mentioned a couple of others but i want to particularly call out one of the very important people that's with us today jessica sky davies because jessica actually uh she's the vice president of the saint david society of pittsburgh and she's done basically in my opinion all of the work to set this uh uh discussion up today she's going to be stick with us through the discussion kind of watching over us to make sure things go as smoothly as can and i just say thank you to you jessica for uh being here and it's it's i've said this before it's very comforting to have you looking over us so and that's all i have for introductions so uh with that i will turn the uh floor over to fred again if everybody could um mute their mics and it looks like they are uh except for fred fred okay bill dave so um as they've indicated i'm going to give just a quick sort of overview of um migration from wales to pennsylvania and a bit further afield so my story it really starts uh back uh in actually 1682 when because of religious persecution in wales at the time a group of welsh quakers from the balor area of north wales they met with william penn and acquired an area of about forty 000 acres immediately to the west of philadelphia and that area became known as the welsh tract and these quakers they emigrated to that area and set up farming communities over farmers so they set up farming communities in that area and then shortly following that a group of baptists also suffering religious persecution the the baptists were from mid and west wales and they followed to the same area and immigration continued into that area there was a another wave of emigration from montgomery in wales in about 1795 and of course even today there are quite a few welsh place names in that area names like bryn mawr north wales guinea marion narboth balakonwood radner berwin haverford tridufferin and auckland all those of course welsh place names in that welsh tract um the welsh society of philadelphia was was formed in 1729 as the oldest welsh society in america and incidentally dr richard allen who's a member of the wilds pennsylvania project is working on a book of the minutes of the welsh society of philadelphia uh he's putting the finishing touches to that um and uh it should be published later this year so that would be interesting to see those the old uh minutes of of the welsh society of philadelphia so um that's where where the world started but um by 1795 uh they were looking to move further west in pennsylvania and the reverend morgan john reese uh took a group of welsh from the welsh track and moved west and set up a welsh settlement at beulah in west central uh pennsylvania and the settlement it thrived for a short while grew to about 60 houses with a church a school and a library but the ground was not very fertile and so by 1808 the community had moved to evansburg which of course became the county seat of cambria county so again these were were farmers they set up farming communities and as more and more immigrants arrived from wales they spread even further west and into virtually all areas of pennsylvania and even of course further afield some of them uh arrived in pittsburgh and they took rafts down the ohio river and set up communities in ohio and three years ago there was a 200th anniversary celebration of a group who um in 1818 uh 36 people from the village of pennant which is about 15 miles south of aberystwyth here they left avariram which is a a small harbor about 18 miles south of here and they um they sailed uh they uh across the atlantic arrived in baltimore uh and then traveled over land to pittsburgh and then took rafts down the ohio river intending to join a welsh community in cincinnati but they they overnighted on the banks of the ohio and a storm blew up and blew their rafts away and so they set up a community in gallia county ohio but also if people sailed even from aberystwyth there's a poster in the avarice museum and i'll read um part of what this poster says you can also find it online and it says um to party's desirous of emigrating to america 1848 the good brig crado of aberystwyth john humphrey's master will sell from that port weather permitting on the 4th of april next and will take passengers upon the following terms and conditions adults 14 years of age upwards 3 pounds with 5 shillings head money children one year and under 14 of age one pound ten shillings with two shillings and six months had money infants under 12 months free passengers to find their own provisions etc and the ship will find water fuel and bed at places now uh both aristothe and aberrant are very small harbours a brig is a two-masted sailing vessel so it's not a very big vessel at all as you can see people were taking this quite perilous journey even from small harbours on the west coast of wilds over to america so those early immigrants as i said were farmers um but um most people perhaps associate welsh immigration with uh mining and uh uh coal and iron and steel workers and indeed in the first half of the 19th century south wales was a very important area for coal mining and ireland steel and in fact mirtha tidville in south wales was the iron and steel capital of the world but it began to lose its position from about 1850 when new manufacturing processes required a more pure form of iron ore than was available in the south wales area so there was a decline in the industry in south wales and so there was a surplus of skilled miners foundry men and metal workers and on the other hand the the mining and iron and steel industry in pennsylvania was just expanding at that time so there were obvious opportunities for these people again to emigrate from south wales to pennsylvania first of all to the north east area around scranton wilkes-barre danville that sort of area but later of course they went further west and especially to johnstown pittsburgh and and so forth uh and and you may note that uh quite close to evansburg there's a town called nantyglo uh which of course is a welsh name mantiglow literally means valley of coal so there was a coal mining community a welsh coal mining community there um near evansburg uh i've been to antiglo pennsylvania uh it's now a bit of a ghost town but obviously once it was a very thriving community and uh there's a little story which um appeals to me in particular um to do with this sort of um emigration in 1853 uh one daniel parry left martha tibville for pennsylvania um and the following year his wife and four of their children joined him in danville pennsylvania uh one of their sons uh at the time was 13 years old and he started work in the rolling mills there his name was joseph parry as in all the welsh communities there were local i steadfading and joseph began winning prizes with his musical compositions uh in fact he did so well at the i stand for die in america that he was encouraged to enter some of his compositions in the uh swansea i said for south wales in 1863 and in fact he won first prize so then he was encouraged and and financed by uh some of these i steadfast die pennsylvania to attend in person the national ice stedford in aberystwyth in 1865. and um to cut a long story short he um he he he did so well he became the first professor of music at the university here in ambrose chief and uh he he wrote uh the tune abrustrath which you may know also he wrote the the the welsh opera uh bloodwing and that story was made into a film uh called off to philadelphia in the morning um a similar sort of thing happened with the slate quarrying industry um that also boomed uh in the beginning of the 19th century with the the slate this time coming from north west wales are from uh carnarvonshire uh and in the stodonia area but again by the middle of the uh the century the the the the welsh industry was in decline um there was also industrial unrest the owner the quarry owners uh started trying to cut the wages and uh so again there was a surplus of of coryman and they um emigrated again uh to north america and particularly to pennsylvania to what is called the slate belt which is about 50 miles northwest of philadelphia and again you find welsh place names banger pennsylvania took its name from the old banger corey quarry which was opened by robert morris jones who immigrated from bethesda in snowdonia and there are other slate quarries in that area for example peters creek lancaster county slate hill appropriately named york county and slatington in lehigh county and although the first quarries were opened in about 18 in the 1830s uh by the first decade of the 20th century lehigh valley produced about half of the slate quarried in the united states mainly from quarries worked by welsh immigrants so that's a very quick overview of immigration into pennsylvania from from wales and i'll now hand back to dave okay thank you very much fred just a reminder in between if anybody has any questions now feel free to put them in the chat box it will be monitored and we will get your questions answered during the open session that we'll have after a couple more presentations and now i'd like to turn this over to dale richards and dale is going to talk more about the western pennsylvania region immigration to etc bail i'm going to talk more than that if you don't mind feel free dale okay let me just uh let me just go back on some of fred's thoughts and maybe uh do a couple of tidbits that i found out about william penn who was born in 1644 his father was sir william penn a very noted respected uh naval officer an admiral in the navy this is a kind of a backstory but uh what happened was in uh around 1670 his father died and the uh crown had was obligated to pay william penn and a large inheritance but they couldn't pay in money so what they did they gave a charter uh through william penn and for a vast amount of land along the uh delaware schuylkill rivers in pennsylvania uh william penn wanted to rename this new whales but the crown shut him down and it came up with pennsylvania excuse me which means penn's woods imagine if william penn didn't have that name because it was a borrowed name basically uh what would have happened or what would have happened if uh the money wasn't there what what happened to what is now pennsylvania very interesting uh story but as william penn uh uh came along he doesn't it's stated that he designed the city of philadelphia and he sold land and some of these folks sold land uh to uh different people and some of these people were the rich quakers who came over and they bought up all the land uh they were called the ancient britons and uh among them were rich and educated people and ministers religious leaders and the land they bought was called the great valley which is like 15 miles outside of philadelphia a lot of wooded area at the time and the great valley had a lot of different townships formed red radnor haverford see brad or hedford marion and then the area became very rich and prosperous and over a hundred years later what happened most of the land was bought up and sold the old english there were the old welsh settlers that died and the children did not learn welsh so all this was lost even the welsh churches the english churches came in and they encouraged the new immigrants from wales to join their flock and so what happened was all a lot of these people moved west or moved to tennessee or moved to ohio and new york and uh that's where the land more land was becoming available to them and this this was uh from the this time to the time uh in pennsylvania and in 1776 when the revolution started the welsh had an opportunity opportunity to increase in numbers and wealth and influence uh they became merchants lawyers doctors uh preachers politicians and after the revolution uh they were more able to pay attention to their farming and to the other useful arts uh so from then uh like 1802 until like 1815 uh not too many people from wales came over to to immigrate over and so in the 19th century uh another thing happened in the northeast anthracite coal the coal mines uh wilkes-barre scranton this is where they were all the big uh the groups uh they they dug coal it was very deep unlike the the western coal which is not as deep the bitumen is cool and uh before the welsh arrived this hard coal had been uh dug by the anglos but as the people came more people came the irish catholics the welsh other other things and uh but the the irish and the welsh were the first ones in the area to arrive and there were many minors occupied around the towns in the region there were about 50 towns around that had little they're probably coal patches and perhaps they had the towns like uh i have a whole list here uh five points columbia uh uh minersville tamaqua ashland mahoney shenandoche centralia all these towns had welsh people in they had welsh churches they had welsh ministers but over time what happened was too many people in the coal fields there were too many people so they had to decide are we going to stay go back home or we're going to move west so that's what happened with the coal fields they're still there but not as frequent or plentiful uh that was kind of like the second migration between 1840 and 1865. now i'm thinking maybe the third migration to uh took place in around the 1890s and that's when the welsh tin mills were in business they had over 90 welsh tin mills in the south hills south wales valleys but over here in america 1890 william mckinley who would later become president he helped to set up or make a make law the 1890 uh tariff the mckinley tariff they called it it was a terror fact that put tariffs on imports up to 70 percent coming in so this kind of made a real uh blow to the uh 10 or 10 valleys 10 mils in the valleys over in wales so some of them probably came over here uh they were recruited by because the american people were starting up their own tin mills so they they sent people over agents to recruit people to come over here in the 10 mils and so that's what happened up there because as you know whales was probably the the biggest seller of a tin plate in the world up until that time my grandfather was a tin tinner he came over 1893 1894 somewhere around there to work in the 10 mills and i'm not sure how he got here whether he was recruited or whether because of the recession over there uh in wales uh he came over uh he brought his family brought his wife and his daughter-in-law or his uh his wife's sister over and he's stopped in blairsville pennsylvania they had a 10 mil my father was born in blairsville he stayed there a couple of years he moved down to indiana the state f indiana for another tin mill i'm not sure he was recruited to go out there or not but anyway he spent a couple of years out there in a little town called atlanta indiana from there he came back home to share in pennsylvania where i was born and lived there the rest of his life so uh the tin mills were a big problem there in the 1890s okay let's get back to let's go back now we want to talk about the city of pittsburgh and western pennsylvania which is a heavily populated welsh area from all the way from erie down to the uh the border of uh west virginia and maryland uh the welsh at the time in pittsburgh numbered about 35 000 people there were six or seven or eight welsh churches in the in uh in pittsburgh at the time uh the druid newspaper was published in uh from like 1913 to 1931 uh the american gorsu they'll talk about a little bit i had their headquarters in pittsburgh and i'll speak about this in a couple of seconds uh we had four national command paganis or we call the national festival of wales now in pittsburgh 1938 1965 1989 and 2009 and according to what i have found in a couple of things uh the first saint david society in pittsburgh was formed about 1881. somebody said 1892 other people said maybe in 1872. i'm not quite sure but it was around that time that the society was uh formed being a religious group the society of today would hold an annual banquet every march to understand david uh because there were so many welsh back then they would hold a banquet that was attended by at least 300 people and they would have entertainment at the banquet after the after the dinner and uh and that was helped by another a couple different societies in history one one was called the saint david benevolence society uh they would hold christmas like stead bids every year and these the stedwards will also attract thousands of people each church had their own chorus other other parts of the town or other towns like homestead they would have their course they would come to the establishment and compete for prizes and you know the prizes back then were maybe fifty dollars or even five as low as five dollars and there but they would hold these christmases steadfans every christmas uh they would be held at the old city hall at the time and sometimes at the exposition center uh that's now where the point is so uh back in the 1880s and 1890s uh the walls are very prevalent as i said 30 35 000 people perhaps um maybe i'm doing research i think i'm finding more welsh churches we have a uh an intern that's doing a research study for us for the wells pa project um about the welsh churches trying to find images histories etc but uh and as the years progressed coming up into the 1900s the welsh would go to different route they would hold what they would call welsh days he said these were large picnics held in shenley park in pittsburgh they would attract thousands of people they would have events they would have a baseball game they would have races it would have pony pony races uh all kinds of things like this and in the evening speakers and entertainment so that this happened and into the 19 13 14 15 years but as the years progressed it kind of slipped and maybe up until the 1950s when the the societies kind of lost their steam and i think it wasn't until maybe we had the nationality room formed the society picked up again but the one big event in pittsburgh at the time in july of 1913 was the national stedman which was uh under the us auspices of the american gorsud which had its headquarters here in pittsburgh it formed in 1913 it kind of folded in 1946 because the welsh language was not being spoken too much anymore just like in the coal fields just like over in philly uh the welsh language the the older folks didn't teach the young kids the language so it just faded away and uh but the american corset it was 25 000 people at this july 2nd through the 5th at the old exposition hall at point state park and i'm going to ask this question and maybe somebody in the check can tell me what of course they did what is a gorsuch and and what does it do and i'll i'll explain it to you so uh but there i have so many notes here of the happenings in pittsburgh you know it's it's amazing and i'm still going through stuff so in a nutshell that's that's what we have so i'll stop there i can go go on and on thank you thank you dale that was a a very good summary are you gonna tell us what a gorseth is or are you gonna wait for the uh open i'll wait okay okay let me get myself unmuted here and uh so now we'll move on fred has taken us from philadelphia westward across the state dale has elaborated on that and gotten us into the western portion of the state and now i'm going to talk a little bit about the northwestern corner of pennsylvania erie county and i can't tell other than my family who i know is from erie is there anybody on here from erie today i know i sent a uh i said okay okay well anyway uh obviously erie was not as well known as uh some of the other siblings or as populous as others such as philadelphia scranton pittsburgh some of the places that dale mentioned but well settlers did start to move into that area in the late 1700s early 1800s and that is where my family's from so i'm going to kind of talk about them to give you an idea of the immigration pattern there they came to erie county there are no mines in the erie area but they came and stopped seeking work as uh as farmers and sailors uh the area that they they settled in in erie county is now commonly known as wales it's a rural community which people refer to as whales um and i mentioned before my ancestors were from there and their immigration pattern was this uh my ancestors were from northwestern wales uh in the schwann roost area if anybody knows approximately where that is and in 1832 they uh uh went to liverpool where they got on a ship the william burns and uh they came they uh headed across the atlantic ocean and arrived in the port of new york which incidentally was the port of new york there was no ellis island at that time it was again this is 1832. and and then they from new york they headed it appears they headed up the hudson valley up the hudson river somehow to the eastern terminus of the erie canal got on the erie canal uh went across southern new york state to the western terminus in buffalo new york and then worked their way down to erie pennsylvania from that point um some of that is speculation uh however it appears to be a pattern for the welsh coming to that part of the country uh to erie and um the uh one of the uh pieces of evidence that uh i went with that is my i found an obituary for my great great great grandparents and they mentioned that they stayed in buffalo for a year on their uh on their journey across the united states to get to erie so it appears to be a legitimate route now once they got to erie uh again uh they they uh settled in as farmers sailors uh my great great grandfather as a matter of fact uh was killed uh in an uh bowdoin maritime accident on lake erie in 1849 where he was a sailor he was a a boiler tender and the boiler blew up and uh uh that was his occupation sailor also his son joined the united states navy and he uh served in the navy for 20 years lived in erie and during the civil war this is kind of interesting his boat patrolled the great lakes um watching for confederates working their way across the great lakes to the united states there's no evidence that they ever intercepted any but that was what he did during the civil war now in that area of uh erie county they started a church uh officially known as the east green presbyterian church but very commonly called the wales church that was started in 1849 i used to go to that church when i was young and many of the records of that church are written in welsh and in some of the bullsens would get that go to church and it'd say well the following week the entire service is going to be in welsh so then in again in 1849 they formed a cemetery uh which was located right next to the church but was independently chartered from the church it was on the site of an existing congregationalist cemetery that church unfortunately no longer exists but the cemetery does it's still active and there are burials in that cemetery that date from 1827. um community also contained a school appropriately known as a whale school the building still stands although it's a residence and a post office it was called the bosque bell post office uh some of you may recognize the name boscobel it's a name steeped in british history british isles history it's it's also there's a historic museum in the valley in the hudson valley which is known as the boscobel uh house museum so that area of erie county is still sometimes referred to as wales uh it's small it never had a huge welsh population it was in the hundreds versus the thousands but it's uh always interesting to go out and see some of those on the landmarks that still stand and that's kind of a short story of the welsh in northwestern pennsylvania so we've swept our way across pennsylvania miners farmers and sailors and now we're up in the uh northwest corner and now i'd just like to open the floor for any comments questions uh you can unmute your mic and ask a question and anybody that can answer that question feel free to answer it and uh the floor is now open let's see we we have no questions in the chat box at this point i have a question this is luanne in arnold maryland okay um could you comment on any western pennsylvania labor organizers that might have gained their experience in welsh mines and come over my grandmother's uncle my great uncle uh was born in wales worked in coal mines around ebivale came to america and became president of the amalgamated association of iron and steel workers and he was involved with tin plate and then in 1889 president harrison appointed him to be a consul to great britain in birmingham and his home was in pittsburgh um and that's where he passed away um but uh it's i always knew we were welsh coal miners and such and that he had been somewhat well known okay thank you thank you for joining us dale you probably know unless somebody else can step in with a quick answer for luanne dale you probably know more about the history of pittsburgh in that area than of the three panelists yeah well the one one particular person is john l lewis who was uh president of the uh the coal miners association and uh when they had uh you know strikes and stuff he'd be there to mediate and stuff and he became a very popular person john l lewis but i'm not sure of anybody else particularly for the coal uh i know up in the hardcore region they did have a benevolent society that they formed to help mediate all these uh strikes and stuff and fights and murders and things like that and mr richards did you say your family's in sharon pennsylvania yes i was born in sharon pennsylvania where my family's from we should exchange emails somehow born and raised in sharon my dad was born in blairsville and my uh other uncles are all up in the area sharpsville uh permateach that area well i will try to find an email for you through the society and um maybe we can exchange some information where are you from uh well i'm from wilmington delaware but my grandmother was born in sharon and um her father was born in wales and came to sharon so that's where they lived their entire life until my grandmother married my grandfather in 1920 they went to kentucky for a year then wilmington delaware and that's where my family home is i light bulbs it just came on fred for our whales va project do you think you might have anything uh related to your your uh relative that you could let us know we can scan it and all that stuff okay there are for my relative that was the labor um head of the amalgamated uh iron workers he has stuff all over the internet um he died in early 1918 so it's old stuff but there's lots of biographies i'd be glad to share some links and things about them um you don't have family pictures or letters or things like that no pictures of him in the family but i think there's one or two on the internet and he's all over if you do newspapers.com you find some things about them um my um gran he was a great uncle so he was my grandmother's uncle her father had more of the music and the uh quote cultural um end of things he taught them some nice refinements in life whereas the one with the coal he was definitely strictly business business business but you know as the head of a big organization national organization and that makes sense yeah okay well maybe you can give me your email or my emails red dragondale on yahoo so i've just put my email address in the chat okay for everybody yeah um so if you want to send me any information about your relatives um then um dale mentioned the the wales pennsylvania project we're always looking for material to put up um on we we use a website called the people's collection wales website which is run by essentially the the welsh government through um the national library of wales here in america and also the welsh museum and that's where we're putting up the um the material uh for the wales pennsylvania project so if you've got any information um then uh you know do do send it to me and i see jessica has also uh put up the um uh the email address of the um uh the the davis society of uh pittsburgh okay um i will make a semi commitment that if you'd like i could try to put together some facts and a summary and maybe at some point turn that into an article of some kind for you that would be wonderful fantastic thank you thank you very much that would be beautiful yeah yeah okay great okay so and and we have fred's and uh jessica as fred mentioned also posted the saint david's email address so uh you know feel free to contact either of them and we will certainly get the information and jessica's just put up a link to the people's collection wires website again in the chat okay if you go um into that website and you search for wales pa wales hyphen pa then you'll find all the materials that we we've put up on that on the side okay anybody else have any comments there i will uh mention because uh ray firth mentioned this uh before we actually it was kind of a pre-call discussion we had about he was looking for some information about poor houses in wales ray if you can hear me do you want to unmute and repeat your question and perhaps somebody can answer that i on a similar presentation from england they thought why people were emigrating uh they talked about the folks being paid to leave poor people being paid to leave the country that they would pay for their ships fair to come across and i'm not sure what i've stumbled across but the i have family who on the census it looks like they were in the poor house and they had all the people in the poor house labeled as part of the census and then that family came over they were minors over there lead minors and they came over to johnstown and so i was just curious whether um you know they were encouraged by the government under the poor laws and got a ship's fee to come over uh so they wouldn't be on the on the cost to the to the welsh government um or just came over on their own but i didn't understand the welsh poor laws at that time this was late 1800s i don't know who would have funded them um but i mean as you say i mean the the poor houses were you know set up uh to house people who you you couldn't fend for themselves essentially and um i can imagine that um the payments were made to enable them to to emigrate to united states and elsewhere but i'm not sure who would have paid for them well i i can add a little bit to that because i mentioned that uh my ancestors came over in 1832 and i have run into some cases right around that period of time that was when wales was going from an agricultural economy industrial economy and a lot of the major landlords at that time were trying to consolidate the farms that they had on their estate just to try to make money out of them because the smaller forms couldn't so i have run into instances i don't know if they were my particular great-great-grandparents but instances where the landowner the estate uh owner paid to have one of his tenant farmers and family move to america paid their fare just so he could consolidate farms and hopefully turn them into pro larger more profitable forms yeah thank you yeah they were tin miners the the husband the couples the family stayed together and the father uh was a lead minor excuse me and his 13 year old son was included as listed as a lead minor so i was surprised with that to see them in the poor house but it made yeah thank you they had lead nines up in cardigan right cardigan sure oh yes um yeah they were let lead mines just be behind aberystwyth um in the hills um in land from ambrosia the quite few uh lead mines they tended to um be most productive about the 1860s 1870s and and then tended to go into decline i think there was a collapse in in the the um the price being paid for lead and and it's quite possible that then the these uh miners uh were essentially made redundant um and then in in the poor house yeah thank you that's what jane blank wrote a couple of her novels about the lead minds up there yeah yeah okay thank you i'm sorry could you repeat the author jane black jane blank b l a and k thank you and it's uh she wrote two novels one's called the dipping pool and the other is uh about manteo m-a-n-t-e-o it's a mansion up there yes that's the difference ian has a dipping pole held up yeah eon has all the props did you two guys get together and uh just a coincidence this stuff is right here yeah you got another one here too but easy enough to look up online yeah what was the name of the other book ian i can't remember that uh shadow of nantes shadow man yeah yeah hold on okay great yes yes in the dipping pool yeah yeah jessica just put the book titles and the author in the chat if you want to check your chat good that makes it easier thank you very well okay jesse goes on the ball today okay and that there's another thing in the chat uh which maybe i'd like to there there was a posting from neville perry which uh first of all uh in an earlier posting he wanted to assure everybody that to his knowledge he is no relation to joseph perry and he and he and his wife or sue are very active in the saint david society of pittsburgh in fact sue is a board member of st davis do and neville you're saying that your great grandfather was bored and a member of the gorseth in liverpool and you have two of his chairs would you like to elaborate on that could you elaborate on that a little bit yes my it wasn't my great grandfather it was my grandfather um but that was in liverpool there was a very strong um welsh community in liverpool in brutal and he he was awarded two bardic chairs in i said funds uh now i know my family in wales has one of the chairs but the other one went missing unfortunately when another relative died so but um he was a member of the certainly the local course whether he was national i'm not sure anyway yeah i have a question for anybody all right let me make one comment first before i get get away from that okay yeah neville uh yeah i have read in some history that liverpool in the early nineteen hundreds that six of their elementary schools taught only in welsh that was the only uh language that they used in liverpool so you're right it was a very heavily uh welsh populated city yeah well uh my grandfather and his wife were both welsh they spoke welsh's home but they said the family lives in england now you will speak english that's why i'm not not bilingual yeah liverpool was known as the capital of north wilds yeah oh really okay yeah now now i think north wales is the retirement home for liverpool the archdruid in the circle stood on a loganstone what is a logan stone i don't know is that the stones with the um strange um drawings on them that they're finding okay oh well do you know dale or are you asking i i know i'm asking please tell us yeah okay uh uh the loganstone is it's it's a rocking stone it rocks back and forth for for what reason i'm not sure but the archdruid stands on the loganstone it's in the center of the all the uh stones okay e on you have something to yeah it just reminds me of one thing so um it was typical or traditional at the beginning of every uh a steve festival to uh set up a circle of stones and they still do it to this day in wales at the beginning of the nationalist deadbod and i i think they're fake stones if i'm not mistaken or at least their stones easily transportable from nearby i'm not sure it's uh they do it a little differently than they might have in the past just to make it logistically easier but uh i think even in pittsburgh if i'm not mistaken from one of our earlier documents we found out that they did a stone circle in pittsburgh at the beginning of one a steadfault or another is that maybe it was about international they did it yeah in pittsburgh yeah that's right yeah that's and they had a harpist the harpist is always there she plays the song yeah so even here we were doing that and neville has some what what is that something to add to this neville sorry it muted again yeah um this this is no this one i'm sorry that one is a photograph of uh of my grandfather and the photograph is an interest interesting book that i've got the welsh and whales in the 20th century i don't know in merseyside and it has a companion book it has a companion book well you guys are full of stuff man okay any other uh all right what was what was the name of william penn's ship he came over on it looks like you've got a stump dale welcome wow i tried i tried to unmute myself i missed it but yes the welcome um wilmington delaware he actually landed in old newcastle delaware first then philadelphia and uh lots of my ancestors over in the chat are english and welsh and came over very very early in the 1600s many of them were quakers some were not um but most were quakers or um english but they um became involved with longwood meetinghouse which is outside of longwood gardens in southeast chester county pennsylvania and the longwood meeting house became quite the place because it was one of the ones that helped there was part of the schism between the quakers someone at only that meeting to be your particular private devotion and others wanted to talk the politics of the day and debate within the meeting and that caused a break and our relatives went with the break and that break in that church they were right on the border with delaware just a couple miles they were very involved around the kennett square area with the underground railroad so that was a really point of pride for us as we did ancestry research and we had known a little bit about it um we visit their graves on occasion and then we found out we also have maryland relatives who weren't the good guys if you have maryland ancestors you likely have the slave-holding ancestors too um but uh being associated with that quaker and being from northern wilmington and southeast pennsylvania has been a point of pride for our family great okay good does anybody know what the symbol of the corset is where do you get these questions there i was reading this book this book right here the royal blue book this is one from the uh the internationalist edmond in july of 1913. very interesting reading fred wants it huh and where did you get that book dale this is from the lady that ian uh contacted in new jersey uh yeah yeah uh kimbridge yeah i was kind of hoping she'd join us today for a while have you heard anything from her at all uh not recently no no i thought she might come on today but it wasn't 100 clear but yeah she reached out to us um and i'll just say only so much since we're on on the recording but uh she basically offered this old book to us that that happened to be in her possession uh didn't have a use for it anymore and we said we would gladly take it yeah it's um we're always interested in uh historic books documents photos uh dealing with welsh immigration in pennsylvania and this this was pretty uh pretty good find yeah yes it was yeah yeah there's the symbol oh here we go yeah here's the symbol you see it no okay a little closer deal there you go three straight lines oh i can yeah let me i think i can pull it up here well it's it's great well yeah i was pulling that up but we really have a pretty good geographical dispersion here i wish we could have gotten suzanne from scranton ah okay yeah is that it yeah yeah so now i'm just kind of filling in there but i mentioned before we have what one two three at least three people on here from connecticut oh we have more than that emma susan davis oh yeah yeah mary beth brown oh okay mary beth thank you for joining us yeah yeah we actually have a uh a person that joined us from indiana uh a couple people from california those are members of my family it's good to have my son from indiana my son and daughter-in-law from california glad that you guys could join us hi keith and uh and hayden thomas has just jumped on hello hayden muted heidi do you know susan st oh yeah say hello she's there she's she's here oh she is with her yeah yeah hello susan yeah she is okay hi susan hi everybody okay susan there's a great genealogist anybody that has any questions asked susan we have a wonderful welsh genealogy group that meets um twice a week on zoom twice a month on zoom and it's been terrific during the pandemic she's helped me a little bit ah david still looking for richard yes yeah yeah you know that's it's richard williams who many of you know i've been searching for for 21 years my great-great-grandfather that came over and got killed in the maritime accident on lake erie and my wife said that he was a criminal and he changed his name and will never find him that's possible could you elaborate on the welsh group you mentioned is it open we have um well we you know we used to meet in person once a month before the pandemic so we moved on to zoom and um we meet um twice a month um to do welsh genealogy and there's about 15 people on the email list um but we um we usually have about eight or ten people every every session and we um research particular things or we have just a general discussion all sorts of different things but you know welsh genealogy you guys do some great work up there yeah hi david this is emma hello emma i enjoyed it very much i'm so glad you could join us emma is a a long-lost cousin heidi uh just discovered up in connecticut and we've been exchanging a lot of information and susan has been helping us out susan sit so yes good you could join us emma emma's great great grandparents are david and my great great great grandparents we have a world traveler with us on don't we hey hey dale hey dale what i believe that book you were showing about the uh the blue book from the uh steadfast in pittsburgh yeah i i believe i had that online a few years ago i don't know if you guys remember yeah you can get a copy of it um through forgotten books and so forgotten books will give you they take like pdf pictures of all the pages it wouldn't be as as nice as the original but it's easy to get that book unforgotten books this needs binded bound so do you dave dale [Laughter] uh you know there's a question here from sandy that i i'm not sure i understand who is like us or have anyone for who is like us nobody is that a book you're asking about uh actually i have an article um i'm sure it was from the ninai of a documentary film on the welsh in north northeast pennsylvania um i can't pronounce the welsh but precede felnin neb or who is like us nobody from the welsh cultural endeavor of northeastern pennsylvania i'm wondering if it's available online or if anyone knows about it can anybody anybody know that and then it's an article from ninai it started out there originally and i i'm sorry i don't have the date from midnight but um the article is from a special correspondent it in um and it announces a documentary film on the welsh in northeast pennsylvania reaches wide distribution okay and uh the people in the picture are dr richard loomis anthony t p brooks and george horwett okay and that was in the signing was at the at the barnes noble in wilkes-barre okay yeah so it's i recognize one or two of those names so probably it was within the last i don't know 10 20 years or so if i had to guess well it's more recently i would say more than 10 because i haven't subscribed to the midnight for that long okay okay but here's the here's a website i i don't know if it's related but it's welsh cut culture nepa.org yeah yeah northeastern pa yeah okay because that that's the local group up there and that's oh okay yeah that they produced a video a few years ago of you know the the um the history of the welsh in northeast pa oh okay and this is it i'm sure this is it oh okay okay i've heard of that video yeah and has anyone tracked down the um pennsylvania ancestors through their land tracks with ancestortracks.com for pennsylvania i picked this up at a genealogy conference a few years ago but i've never tracked anything down so it would be called ancestortrax.com pinpoint their land even before the 1790 census early land owners of pennsylvania a series of county atlases and cds within every name index okay good another question just came up and we can get back to that subject but ann is asking uh sue is there an email to join the zoom genealogy group uh can you post that do you want to post it um yes i can put it in the chat okay yes yeah okay great thank you okay i didn't mean to uh throw us off although i i guess i did and i want to compliment the whales collection for including the hundred years of welsh calvinistic methodism in america because it it includes the writings of the man who was a minister in the presbyterian church in oshkosh wisconsin uh and that's the church that uh that's not the welsh church i attended but it is where i did my catechism so if anyone is interested in that book it certainly has a lot of information on all the various states of uh that had calvinistic methodist churches yes that book is a found of information for for genealogists yes it is lots and lots of names as as is friend as is fred a font of knowledge and help for anything that has anything to do with people's collection whales uh you know he lives within walking distance of the national library of wales knows most of the people there if you have a question that you're really stumped on just email fred and he can get you an answer quicker than anybody i know and if you can't get it there he can just walk up the hill and ask well unfortunately at the moment i can't because of kobe the national is closed but um okay any other questions or comments at all uh just just real quick i just put in the chat i found a um welshculture.org link to what sandy was talking about for the who is like us nobody with a dvd i'm still looking around um for us if it would possibly be the show online but um uh that might be a hint for people to look on their own when you're done today fantastic good i just had one comment i mentioned my grandfather robert parry he moved to liverpool or bootle from just outside for valley and it was probably a bigger move for him to move to liverpool than it was for me to move from liverpool to uh to the states yeah that was uh 130 maybe 150 years ago now and uh moving to a new culture and a new language oh yeah yeah because coming from the portfolio area he he was probably well certainly be a native welsh speaker and whether he was bilingual or not is might be questionable i don't know there would have been a lot of welsh speakers in liverpool at the time so it is it might wouldn't have been so alien yeah he he would have immediately found a welsh baptist chapel this is ray i just i wanted to thank you folks who uh organized this this was very very productive so thank you for putting us together and uh dave you might want to mention again that this will be on uh youtube for anybody who may have missed that earlier yeah uh thanks ray yeah yeah we were recording today i didn't mountain at the beginning i know some of you joined the fence in but uh the video will be posted on our youtube channel wales pittsburgh jessica is that yeah something like that is our youtube channel we should i think we're putting on the facebook i will i will i will um it'll it'll take me a little while to get it processed on youtube but as soo as i do i will put the link up on our facebook our twitter and probably on our website as well but if you go to youtube i think you can just search it as pittsburgh welsh we i really just established this just this year just a few weeks ago actually so um but i'll put up a link to that as well in the in the comments this is luanne when you say you may put it on the website too i would always request that because i worked for the military and i do not do facebook under yeah yeah and i don't believe you i don't blame you at all yeah i try to put things up on the website and i am certainly certainly not everybody wants to be social media yeah well it's gotten to the point i actually call businesses and tell them they just lost a sale because they don't put things on their website and they're all going to facebook but then i'm a bit of a nudge so but thank you that would be helpful on the website that's because you're from sharon vicious of my fellow man and don't trust them a little bit this has been a great session today i think we've got a really great cross-section of people uh both interest wise and geographically and so i think if the people that did all the work to help get this set up like fred and dale and jessica and bob and ian i think this is something we ought to probably think about doing again yeah absolutely definitely yeah i think that's been the conversation and uh i personally wanted to thank david fred and dale for presenting today and jessica for hosting uh the event uh on zoom and doing and doing a lot of other work uh yeah i i personally hope people enjoyed this and uh i would certainly favor doing more of these in the future yeah sounds good it's very nice thank you so much thank you thank you the open bar everybody thank you everybody bye-bye hi bye-bye good to see you bye yes nice meeting you thank you okay who's writing the article on here what i'm writing the article for nina that'll be you dale i took some notes too there's also the recording uh dale oh yeah going back and watching that is really useful yeah so okay in fact i am going to stop the recording right now so okay uh like i said it will take a little while to process it'll probably be a good um yeah it might be like tomorrow or the day after oh geez that's that's that's very quick