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phrases we tend to be isolated and working together to work smarter and come up with you know i've learned this about myself i learn a lot better by communicating so if you're sitting around and you're not talking to anybody you really can't get the ideas out originating from deep inside the rocky mountains transported through the power of the internet and arriving inside your tiny earbuds it's the appraiser coach podcast helping appraisers increase their efficiency quality and make more money here's the guy who makes it his life's mission to create value for real estate appraisers [Music] nationwide harris and welcome back to the program everybody dustin harris hanging out once again in the podcast chair almost a million downloads folks the number one listened to appraisal podcast out there thank you for joining me uh have a very special show it's one of the most popular shows that we do it's another appraiser story for you wanna pause here first and remind you that we're sponsored by three great companies one of them being working re magazine working re is where i go on a pretty regular basis couple times a week to find out what's going on in the appraisal world you should be as well again it's working working our is where you go to find out more about a great program which will save you time save you money save you about 45 minutes for report folks it's datamaster and you can find them at and finally we're sponsored by alamo speaking of efficiencies and technology that can be used for your benefit folks if you're not using their mobile app what are you doing or 800 ala mode well folks i want to introduce to the program a friend of mine a member of the all-star team her name is dana shaw she comes to us from the dakotas uh north or south dana i'm in north dakota there is a difference there is a difference right well i don't know i think we have the same feel yeah okay all right so talk to me a little bit about your background because it's kind of unique uh what to what puts you in uh in north dakota okay i was born and raised in uh west michigan southwestern michigan and um i went to school to be a teacher and i taught um just for a few years but while i was studying to be a teacher i worked part-time for an appraiser and i thought to myself when i was in the summer like wow i think i'd be really good at this this is really neat stuff i i like to i like the order i like the you know things like that so i put the blinders back on i became a teacher worked for about six years as a teacher and then i decided to uh quit i knew i felt i didn't have the energy to be the mom i wanted to be so i quit and i had a i was looking into other ways to just work part-time some of those i hate to say it but back in the mid 90s there were some maybe they're still out there some scams i'm trying to get you to sell gumball machines and stuff like that i'm sitting at some gumball machine thinking i actually think i gave him my money i got it back i did get it back though but i sat next to a girl and she said oh well i'm starting to be a real estate appraiser and i'm like wait a minute and i'm glad i'm going to tell you i do not think i would have thought of it yeah and i thought oh i was really good at that and i so i called my mentor who was my mentor time and said that night and nobody he just said dana i i will hire you tomorrow and you can buy my business and it was like boom like that i had a job wow so uh it wasn't gumbo yeah no gumballs i got my three thousand dollars back so i uh went to school and uh that was in september of 96 and uh was going to holloway institute there in michigan and okay um got my license and started working for him and then i was going to get a few more classes and found out i was pregnant with twins oh wow and that put our business on hold for a while which um actually was pretty cool for me because i ended up not having to buy his business because an appraiser thinks his business is worth a little bit too much if you ask me for what what somebody end up paying him i think the lord i did not have to do that and i felt obligated to because i mean that was a contract right i mean it wasn't really a contract but he wasn't hiring somebody yeah he hired somebody else once he saw how easy i was to train and i do see that it's true he flat out told me he goes i i've never wanted to hire anybody and i had an assistant in the office for seven years and i never would have hired her to train her because the way you picked it up and you know i don't want to i hate to say it like that but it just it i just grooved in it you know i just grooved right in it i knew i'm a data hound um it just hit and like i said he had hired people and it had other people imagine walking in some green elementary school teacher saying hi i'm here to be an appraiser and you work for seven years and he didn't hire you i won't i won't get into that i watched my back for so long um but now you're in north dakota yeah so i we were struggling out here in 2008 in michigan um well we struggled quite a bit starting around 2006. we were barely making it but we hung on and a friend of mine introduced us to it in 12 about north dakota he was building out here in stanley which is about an hour and a half for me and that's this is uh the oil area you know due to do the rocking through the oil fracking yeah so he said it took six months to get an appraisal done and i laughed and it took me about six months to do it because i just said no i have 12 i had 13 year old twins at the time or 14 year old twins so i didn't think i could do it but he just kept pushing me and pushing me and pushing me and i said all right i'll draw fly out there and i talk to a few banks and i only found one bank that would would hire me but i got seven orders and i flew out there in november 2012 and stayed out here in rural north dakota for about eight nine days and i think i flew in november 17th 2012 and flew back whatever you know 24th whatever it was and um yeah we had we had a couple lean months but we kept it up we saw that we saw the opportunity um my husband and i started like driving out here because we weren't we couldn't afford the flight for a while there because it was you know trying to get the business up and running and um but before you know it you know we we we're getting 30 40 orders a month or every six weeks for you know we do 30 to 40 orders every four to five weeks and be out here for four or five days as much as eight then we i'd fly home and he'd drive you know we float we flew back and forth i drove i flew just depending on where the appraisal was to like sometimes i flew into mine out sometimes i'd fly into fargo you know saying sometimes you might not know but farther east of where i am right now just to make it work you know right right and uh but but you eventually moved out there we started we were staying out here in a friend so i met a north dakota nice couple who actually were from michigan they let us live in their ensuite part-time for about we did that for about seven eight months where we were living here probably 30 40 of the time and i told charlie i said i really think i could do this i really think i could live here and then we moved out here to give our sons the opportunity and i'll be honest my sons have done very very well especially particularly the one that's been here since he got out here in february 2019. he has you know i think about all of his buddies who are stuck home and because of covid you know and he's out here working full-time and skyrocketing up in the bank and just doing real well so it's been good for my whole family good good good so tell me a little bit about obviously you've got the the mining industry tell me a little about your primary area uh what what makes north dakota so unique you've worked to two different geographic areas which is very unique for an appraiser so you have the the comparison there what's it like to appraise out there well when i started you know i started in the small little towns and got to know each of the individual towns and the reason what makes north dakota unique is the fracking is the it's the oil um i think there's always been a sort of appraise of appraisers from what i can see um i guess i never thought about that in michigan i guess i felt like there were shortages in those three we were really crazy busy but nothing like it is out here it literally was the first appraisal i did i met the guy and he he was from he was from bismarck and he said to me this was november like i told you 2012 he goes will this appraisal be done by spring and i'm like brain i said i better give you a christmas present oh like he almost hugged me i'm like okay don't hug me it's okay i don't know you were in the middle of nowhere in plaza north dakota but i'm glad you're happy yeah so um yeah i mean it's just people from everywhere i do like that i'm living an apartment we sold our house in michigan just this last month and when we were coming out here in um 12 13 and 14 you'd go to the walmart parking lot and you've probably heard the stories people living in there you know we've got some funny stories about that but people from everywhere are living here i really like that we all kind of have a longing for home so i like that that we're all kind of in this together it feels like the wild west a little bit you know what i mean is like the kids that are around me and the parents in church everybody's just you know we're new we're making new families out here so that's what's kind of unique but again it's just the shortage it's a town of 17 well i'm not gonna don't don't you know quote me exactly but let's say there was ten thousand people in wilson ten years ago there's thirty now there's thirty thousand oh yeah first first international airport in fifty years to actually have a new location first i mean they literally could not build and the the airport is now being dismantled and being turned it's going to be a nice little park and uh it's different rural america is very different than um you know i lived in grand rapids michigan i had a million people living within 50 miles of me i probably don't even have a million people living within 500 miles of me and again don't quote me but it's a total different feel yeah for me to drive two hours to go to walmart in two hours to go to a mall you and i were talking off the air and you and i have a similarity in the sense that we both do rural areas but you even drive more than i do what's a typical day look like for you dana well i where that's one thing i will say we'll talk about that is i feel like i'm working a lot more a lot smarter um and it's it's a couple reasons i mean i'll say joining your team has really helped me that's make me more aware i feel like i'm being sharpened iron sharpens iron um and you need that especially when you're in this rural area i'm the only appraiser that i work with every day you know um so i love the facebook and all that how i get the input so i feel like i'm working smarter and what we've what we've decided is i go to i stay in williston um every monday i do about four to five maybe six appraisals a day every monday in williston um maybe maybe as many as seven um and then so that that day is a long long day um and then i usually spend tuesday wednesday um getting those those around and working with my virtual assistant now that i have and then i so i'm in the office tuesday wednesday and sometimes depending on the day thursday or friday i'll go back out and i'll either go north so i'll head north and i'll go i go as far as um crosby which i can i can see i can see uh canada from from crosby i can see saskatchewan and then i'll go farther east so i kind of swoop up through the east you know north and east um once a month and then i'll swing south and east once a month and then occasionally i'll you know then there's a so i try to do every other you know so one first thursday of the month i'm gonna go north and i'm not i'm we're still working on that and then the third thursday i'm gonna go south and i'm trying to only go those directions once a month but occasionally because of trips home or because of like we have a a church camp in devils lake which is about four and a half hours from here i will head whenever i'm heading that direction i'm gonna do appraisal so on my way back from michigan this last month i was in hansborough north dakota which literally um is about eight hours from here maybe a little bit more round track round trip but maybe five six hours at the most but i never go that far just to go that far right it's always you know it's popping around the country and i won't go back to hansboro until november when i head home for christmas for thanksgiving so that's how we do it we've told them they're trying to get me to go that far again and i'm like you know i don't know if you can find anybody but it won't be me until november um the farthest i'll go which usually might not took about two and a half probably three hour drive but again i'm not going just for one appraisal three hours i'm probably going to have five or six on the way maybe even maybe as many as 10 on a day like that which is hard to do in november you can't do that november no no i hear you yeah yeah a lot of miles though so i would i was putting more miles on my car as i honestly think i was in michigan because i would go you know what 20 miles north to rockford than 30 miles east and i could never plan my day you know you'd be like oh bummer man i just got a on rockford i went to rockford last week i'm going to try to get this got to go back yeah and now i don't have to do that i mean i pretty much can set my own parameters and occasionally they'll pay a crazy amount of money and i'll just say it to go far you know and i'm going to i'm going to charge you know you're going to pay me at least 50 60 bucks an hour probably a hundred dollars an hour if i'm going to drive that far you know i might not charge that because i can use that time and but they got to make it worth my while i'm not getting my car to drive that far good good that's working smart all right so the most uh scary or disturbing uh experience you've had as an appraiser you've been doing this for a while so you had yeah 1996. um i think that well the most dangerous was my husband and i were down in watford city north dakota and it was 27 degrees below zero this is our first printer out there i did have gloves um but we didn't have a shovel and he was so cute we're in a rental car and i was trying to connect to their wi-fi because they you know they had a they had to open wi-fi and i was trying to in that area i couldn't get a good signal and um even though i have verizon hey some places it doesn't work and so he's creeping and creeping and creeping up to the house something i think you're getting too close that snowbank you think you're getting too close to that snowbank but i didn't dare go outside because it was 27 degrees well guess what we got stuck in the driveway and 27 degrees below zero with nothing but a couple pair of gloves on our hands we had i think we had and i didn't break into the pool barn because i wouldn't want to say that but i found a 2x4 and i was so mad at charlie i'm under there with this two by four because he got us stuck worse and i'm under there trying to pitch out that snow with a two by four we couldn't find a shovel and needless to say oh that was it wasn't scary because we couldn't have died but it was pretty bad yeah and then i did actually have i was in a house in allegheny michigan this was back in like 97 98 when i was just into it and uh i heard something in the garbage it was an abandoned house and i heard something in the garbage and i told myself okay there's something alive in this house i tried to pray you know trust myself what could it be because i'd already seen a mouse because i was scared i said there's a mouse in the house i hear it and then he ran across in front of me so i already was scared and then i hear this thing rumble around in the garbage and i have to get outside and the garbage is right by the door and the rest of the house is boarded up you know i'm like okay god what what could this be this is ether a raccoon or a wrap well guess what it was a rat and it was a big rat and i was so scared i left my clipboard and keys on the counter [Music] i love it so what i did is i banged down the door really loud and i thought why didn't i do that because he was scared he was more scared of me and he did not move and i got out of there lickety-split so those are my two scariest so it was great all right those those are scary but those are funny i hope you've saved the funny a funny story for us i have a really funny one really i mean it's funny because um when you hear rural road rule road means a lot different to me now than what rural road meant to be in in northern michigan okay and she said this was on a prairie road and i'm out in logan north dakota which is you know not far from minot which is a pretty big town and i'm on this road and it's it's february and i screwed up and but i'll blame google google told me how to google told me to go that way and so i started on this prairie road but it wasn't a prayer road it was the farmer's road between their um fields but i didn't know that sure so there's probably a foot of snow on the ground and i'm in a nice little mic edge i rented the edge and i'm plowing through the snow and i'm like i can't believe i'm doing this the house can i say okay if i can just get to the house then i'll be able to plow back out because i knew i couldn't stop so i kept going and i'm like i'm so mad at this realtor where is she sending me i am out there in the middle of nowhere and it's 27 degrees there wasn't that cold it was probably you know 17 below and i'm just plowing i'm just plowing through just absolutely plowing through and i said to myself it's not the house is not up here we are we are not on the right road so i stopped and i'm like and i tried to back out yeah that was your mistake you stopped yeah but no i don't no no i'm like no that's not no that's not true because if i don't want to i'll tell you what happened so i call it i call it triple a he comes up to me and goes i can't get you out without bobcat i gotta make a road oh my gosh you gotta make a road and he told me if i had gone another 100 yards he would have had to get a helicopter to get me out oh come on that's what he told me so so triple a did not pay for that it was six hundred dollars it towed me out um and that i'm such a diva because i had charlie my husband come get me and he had to stay out there and wait i said oh we should have we should have videotaped this oh yeah this would have been i should i could have had a podcast i could have gone viral i've got some really good podcast stories too from different things happening but i may end up doing that someday um but so i'm at the hotel charlie's out there they charge at 600 bucks but because it was so late we couldn't leave we were gonna head to michigan so we stayed and no lie i got two thousand dollars of appraisals literally that were within like 20 minutes of where i was and then 20 minutes farther so i made 14 i made 1400 bucks love it back then we weren't making as much money so that was a really good shot in the arm it was a little bit of a funny story i told my sons i said a helicopter was almost gonna have to get me out of here that is awesome we're talking with uh shaw out of uh north dakota thank you dana uh we'll come back here in just a little bit uh i wanna pause here and remind you that we're sponsored by three great companies uh alabama being one of them folks uh i'll tell you their mobile platform is amazing uh we are using it daily uh to go out and sketch and to get photos and comp photos and uh and fill out the form and by the time i get back to the office i'm able to sit down and start doing adjustments folks that's how good it is uh check them out go to or you can pick up the phone and talk to them if you're with any other company out there i dare you to call ala mode it's 800 mode and ask them how they are different than the company that you're with they will tell you and you will be switching or 800 all the mode working re magazine of course is the place that i go to learn more about the appraisal world in fact a lot of the topics for this particular podcast come from working re magazine because they are right on the edge of what's going on in our industry um check them out go to and sign up for their free newsletter it's finally we're sponsored by datamaster datamaster of course is the place that i go to save about 45 minutes on every stinking report that i do check them out right now go to and folks are not in every area i don't know if they're in north dakota but they're they're i'm using five mls's and they are in two of the five so three of them unfortunately i can't use them but if they are in your area you need to be using them data master usa is where you find out more again it's [Music] and welcome back to the program folks we are uh with dana shaw she's in north dakota a member of my all-star team and uh an appraiser extraordinaire can appraise anything in 17 degree below zero weather right 55. it was 55 oh i can't even i can't even i can't even fathom you're gonna die i'd rather die with sunshine i mean you're gonna die in michigan if it's 10 below and it's cloudy i'd rather be where it's sunny and die in five minutes sooner and have sunshine all right so you've been doing this actually as long as i have i started in 96 as well dana what's your what would you point to is your biggest failure over over the years of doing this well i say first thing i was thinking is that i was introduced to the bakken back in march of 2012 and he kind of just said you know why don't you try it and i didn't and it took him pushing me in to start a company with him to do it and i lost quite a bit of money and i lost quite a bit of control at the beginning so i would say that the fear of not starting it but then i would say even more so for me is i've worked hard at this job my whole career and i want to work smarter so i don't know if it's a failure but i feel like where i would have been if i had done this working with you being sharpened and you know i'm not saying you're you're the catch-all there's a lot of other ways but this makes so much sense to be working together appraisers we tend to be isolated and working together to work smarter and come up with you know i've learned this about myself i learn a lot better by communicating so if you're sitting around and you're not talking to anybody you really can't get the ideas out you know and some people learn better by reading i i tend to just do better talking and so i've i already had some staff but i really feel like your um just the input i'm getting for the team from the facebook page has really helped me so i'm making that failure and i'll go away as soon as possible so i'm gonna i am working smarter i am working a lot smarter the next question i was going to ask you is your biggest success but it sounds like you've turned that failure into success yeah well i would say my first is my family i really believe that's my most important calling as my kids are walking with the lord that's the most important thing to me in my life um but then i would say that coming out here yeah it it's going to change it's changing the entire director of my entire family i said my son even if he doesn't stay um just coming out here the fact that he'd gotten his ikea you know 21 year old kid 20 20 year old kid and just gotten his kia and he's got some funny stories too getting stuck down and dickinson in a kia and 27 degrees with zero on a saturday night trying to do uber so i said you've got some stories you and i we got one's good you know we used to come up with something mom and son in the bakken i don't know what we could call it but he's got some really funny stories from doing lyft and uber out here too um i'm surprised uber out there frankly diary of a boomtown lift driver and diary of a boomtown appraiser we i said we should we should come up with it man i love it lyft driver might even be better where do you see things going here in the next three to five years both personally for you and for the profession well i feel like there's been a lot more hybrid stuff out there in the last and i don't know if that's the right word but i really feel like we're getting away from maybe um doing a lot of like i'm being asked to do some appraisals right now because of kobe they say they won't even let me in the house and i'm like well that doesn't make sense but they said if you won't do it then we're not going to get the appraisal done so i think there's got more hybrid i think that's going to allow us to focus on what we need to focus on which is the data analysis and um trusting other people under certain appraisals i'm not going to do um a desktop but i really think that that hybrid is gonna allow free us up to get more work done and be more efficient and then i think that's available right yeah exactly and that's what we were talking about that a little bit i have one that i'm working on that right now trying to make that decision and i of course i state that to them in some areas i work you don't even have addresses you don't even know the absolute house you actually have to count the houses to figure out what the address is but and then i also think that depending on what happens with my kids um i've worked i've lived in both states at the same time and i like my life out here better but if my kids are back in michigan i'll probably go back the other way but i'll have a little house here i'll have something um i'll never leave this area for as far as the praising for one thing i feel like i'm needed so much more but i may be back in michigan at least part-time and i like the idea of that i like that it's a good feeling to be needed yeah for sure for sure all right so uh one helpful tip that you can give to the listeners to the appraisers out there well i think one thing working with you and i've always had i never called it workflow but i think my workflow you know in the procedures manual is really really really helping and honestly i think i was planning on getting rid of a now and trying to do my own um like google sheets and google forms but we decided that the workflow is just too well um it integrates really well with enow and i've actually even come up with a way to link a now um workflow to my um procedures manual nice i love it no it's just a hyperlink and it's not super it's not as easy as i wanted to be i've asked them to see if they could get it so it could be a hyperlink rather than copying pasting but if my girls don't know how to do it um they you know they can find it in the procedures manual or we we're going to copy and paste a link into that workflow and then it will take them right to the procedures manual so they won't have to look for it right so i really think that um in the software i really like how i'm worried i think allen's done a good job um i've really wanted titan uh i was excited about titan um but now that i've i'm using my server thank you um that's gonna change a lot so i don't think she talked about the all-star team right oh yeah server i mean you know yeah i remember talking to you back that in 17 about how struggling with data and transferring data and working with i was using virtual assistants before i knew that's what they were called so right on well wonderful are you ready for lightning round my friend yes all right here we go inside out or outside in yes okay uh tape roller or laser i use all three depending on the house okay well there you go that's an interesting uh answer tablet computer clipboard and pen i'm still a clipboard girl i'm sorry all right we'll get you there i'm trying but i don't get it i don't get how it's faster we already know your appraisal software so your favorite thing to do when you're not appraising is being with family and friend we have a cottage in michigan and church functions my church is very important to me yeah i can tell and one goal that you have for this year one goal to get my va's up and running i've got a couple that i'm working with in the philippines and just get the server and get that all going and my procedures man will be done probably the most important thing i love it i'm wonderful what did what didn't we talk about dana that you want to share as we close up here i don't think so i mean i look at everything i think we've kind of went over everything um i love my profession i can tell i can say that i love it because of the flexibility it gave me as a mother most i mean that was probably the most important thing to me um i love it that i'm needed i said i feel like that i feel like out here i'm really needed um but i have to say i'm really glad to be have joined this team i i could have thought maybe there's other options but i really think this is really helping me i really do i um i'm just glad to be i feel like i'm being sharpened and i'm and i'm going to be a better appraiser person and everything because because if i can work smarter that allows me to have the time to do the other things other missions in my life so love it my friend thank you for taking time i really appreciate you telling your story very unique uh there in north dakota dana shaw thanks again thank you nice to talk to you you've been listening to the appraiser coach podcast with dustin harris if you like what you hear please give us a five star rating and post a short review on itunes for more in-depth insider information on how you can make more money as a real estate appraiser visit the and sign up for the all-star team today thanks for joining us and now get out there and create some value [Music] yeah but i i honestly i think i'm putting less mouths on my car now than i was when i was working in michigan because i would go 20 miles north for one appraisal and then i couldn't hear what you said was that seriously he's answering me that's funny you gotta be careful what you say these days that's funny so i would i was putting more miles on my cars i honestly think i was in michigan

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