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i'd just like to welcome everyone and thank you for joining us for today's discussion on artificial intelligence uh before we begin i'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land in which the university sits the the the warranty and the bunwarang peoples of the kulin nation and i'd like to pay my respects to their elders both past present and emerging my name is caroline o'farrell i work in the central careers and employability team at the university of melbourne and i'm joined by my colleagues sherlin and daniel today to support this event this webinar is part of our industry insight series where we focus a discussion on a growth industry and invite industry guests to share their insights and today's discussion is focusing in on ai and some of the diverse careers that are available as part of this growing industry in november last year the csiro estimated the benefits of artificial intelligence to be worth 22 trillion aud to the global economy by 2030. the federal government's department of industry regards the growth and adoption of ai in australia as key to boosting the economy solving future challenges and improving our quality of life today we're joined by two guests niaz and james who currently work in ai in different ways they'll be sharing their experience career journeys with us and the discussion will cover some current trends career pathways and tips on upskilling and preparing for a future career in ai so we're going to start with a poll right so i'll stop screen share so we're going to get started with a poll um so i'm going to ask you to select which of the following best describes your current outlook on a possible career working in ai so i'll give you a few seconds to respond to that whilst you're completing the poll i would like to let you know that the session is being recorded today the recording will be distributed via the careers and employability newsletter in the coming weeks the newsletter goes out on fridays and to ensure you receive it if you don't already uh you just need to access our employment platform which is where all of our digital resources are available this can be found on our website at students.unimail.edu forward slash careers okay and if you'd like to ask questions throughout the sessions today please submit it via the q a function my colleague will be moderating that chat today and at the end of the session we'll have a chance to ask some of those questions okay let's look at the poll results and here we go okay so so 50 uh say it's a possibility um quite a few of you 20 it's your ultimate career goal so we have some passionate um some passionate students in the audience today that's great um yet another 20 sounds cool never considered it before um and a few that aren't quite so sure so i think that's that's a good spread we've got a bit of diversity in the audience today so hopefully um so hopefully there'll be uh some yeah some some new perspectives uh shared today so that's exciting um so i'd like to uh introduce the panelist now um it's with much much pleasure that i welcome our guests today so we're joined by nya's ahmed niez began his career designing advertising and studied accounting and fine arts he has over eight years experience in digital optimization and he currently works as a journey expert at telstra which is quite a fabulous job title i must say we're also joined today by james gabb james holds a bachelor of information systems and has experiences across a range of technical fields including cyber security uh he currently works as a product manager in atlassian's search and smarts teams so we'd like to welcome welcome you both here today thank you for joining us um so i'm gonna get straight into the discussion today with the first question um so i'd like to kick it off by asking each of you to share an overview of your current roles uh both at telstra and atlassian so we might start with you niaz can you give us an overview of um what yeah what your role as a journey expert is and how you work with ai so currently i work at as you mentioned that journey expert and my role is purely to optimize the customer journey from an and how we can use ai and all the optimization techniques so it can vary from different and different skills and the key focus for my role is to understand the business need and how we can use the ai stack the available tools that in the market to optimize the customer journey because in many instances doing a manual optimization is not possible and so yeah so we use the ai because obviously you know the telstra got a large volume of customer and every month we might have two millions of customers coming to tell us the website and we cannot cater for everyone humanly and even when we use the different optimization techniques sometimes we have to make the decision so there is the ai that we use and obviously my role is to understand the business need and work with the data scientists and the email engineers to see like how we can develop the models and understanding the key business requirements and obviously identify the opportunity where we can use those machine learning models with the um with connecting with the ai technology yeah and that's in a brief what i do right thank you um and james can you give us an overview of um what you do at atlassian in this uh team there yeah sure thing so as a as a product manager i work with a talented designer and a team lead who owns a range of 20 developers we use that to spread what we call smart experiences or experiences that take use of machine learning or ai across atlassian and when we think about you know what sort of experiences we go after with smart it's generally things that are repetitive so when you're triaging issues um things that use large amount amounts of data so think of the user search um when we're trying to predict actions or like template suggestions or possibly even servicing your new data or unknown so this might be like insights for how your team is functioning and i guess the the key philosophy that atlassian has on ai is that there's no you know silver bullet experience that makes a product you're necessarily smart we believe that a myriad of these intelligent experiences across our products are going to make it you know holistically smarter um so they might not be the biggest thing uh in the world so there might not be the you know the next netflix recommendation um but ultimately it's going to be a series of these improvements across you know the journey that the user takes across our products uh that's gonna it's gonna leave them thinking that you know this is a better experience than than previous thanks james um i like the point you made there that um you know it's not always the sexiest looking um thing uh that's often just things that we wouldn't even notice going on around us so thank you for that um so an ai is changing a lot of industries quite rapidly um including healthcare professional services retail and resources um and it has an immense potential impact on the way we do things in our everyday lives like like you just mentioned um i'll go back to you on this one james what's exciting and evolving in ai in australia and where is your industry heading look i think uh although there's you know a bunch of different industries like legal and shipping and i'm sure communications as well that are taking advantage of ai um i guess the more important thing to note especially for you know those at uni right now is that there's a lot of algorithms that have been put out that are free for or close to free for anyone to use and take advantage of and play around with um and this necessarily wasn't the case you know five ten years ago and some of these weren't even around five or ten years ago so if you if you look at even the way that you know google if you you know go on gmail and you start typing an email and it you know recommends what the next couple of words are for you to type um that's a really really difficult algorithm and that's something brand new and groundbreaking but in five years time that's going to be something else that you know anyone can take advantage of so i guess the the most the the the best thing that i'm excited about is uh all the new algorithms that are coming out for uh that will be available to use by anyone um in the same way you know you can start a website in five minutes uh that you couldn't do ten years ago great thank you and yes um what's exciting and involving uh for you in in ai in australia i guess uh james's perspective is quite like from a technical one but for me as i'm from non-technical so i guess for me is to see um from a customer perspective what are the things that's influencing us like as an ai like as you mentioned in our daily life um even if you think about the grocery shopping it calls like if you go to calls you're purchasing and that the big amount of data is we are using for ai putting into a pattern and then influencing customer to buy something in the next or third day that they're sending an edms showing the product that you bought in last week and they're guessing that you're going to buy that one or so ai is actually for us from in retail perspective is actually getting evolving quite rapidly because we have identified that customers every single customers they actually expect a personalized experience they no longer want to see the same image or same treatment that hundreds of other people are receiving so from that perspective all the companies are actually putting a lot of emphasis on personalizing the experience and across every digital channel where they're engaging with the customers and imagine that from a retail or service any perspective all the companies are actually pushing for more digital conversion because if for if you convert in digital you have to pay less you have less cost if from imagine that if you're a store selling handset and you're selling it from all website that company is actually saving money so in future from a job perspective there will be a lot of lot of opportunity for uh personalization expert or expert in that ai field who can actually not trying to use those um um technology and understand the business need and the customer need and um like connect the dot and yeah yeah thanks i've written down personalization expert as a job title that can be googled and and should be growing in the future so thank you for that tip then here it's great um i'll i might go back to uni as just quickly um with you know some of these exciting um things that are evolving in this field um what are the challenges that you see as well and i know um often when we talk about ai questions of ethics and data privacy and these sorts of things do come up so yeah yeah could you could you speak to that i think um obviously ea is not human so there is the data and from a non-technical perspective what we see is a tool um and but then we have to understand how we are using that ai imagine that i create say for instance the company a retailer using 14 or 16 offers they want to show it to the customer they might use an ai algorithm which will create say as a full factorial design so that might have 128 experiences and but the thing is that how it will impact the customer who who is exposed to them and then how they will ensure that there is no vulnerable customer because you are not meant to sell a product to customer who got a high credit default rate rate or has an impulse buying and and that's the death area where um from retail service and utility that there should be there is a focus for responsible ai because um the air needs to be responsible and obviously the human needs to decide on that one and ensure that the ai is a responsible ai um i can give an example of um amazon hello there wristband there introduce some things so which is like it will be in your hand so it can obviously scan your health and your voice but at the same time it can also influence it can also take advantage on you by thinking that you're in a good mood so they can increase the price of certain product and online so these are the things small areas that we need to consider and when using ea wow that is quite terrifying i might um we might then i might come back to niaz um because pathways and taking next step is something that we talk about a lot with careers and employability and like you said you come from a non-technical background working in ai so um and you've had quite a unique one at that could you share with us your career journey to where you are today [Music] so obviously as a person when i was young i had interest for arts and music so and eventually i started graphic arts as in my bachelor degree and then i obviously started working as a graphic designer and i got interest in advertising so i came to australia back in 2004 to study advertising and then once i did the advertising course obviously i had issues um getting internship because i had a dream that i'll work in a international company um ex make some get some experiences and so it was difficult back then so if there was not much opportunity for international student to get work experiences so what i did um i actually did the professional accounting courses so because that was my another interest area i thought that this is can be a good pathway for me because i study accounting professional accounting and eventually i got back to my design career which is the advertising designer and that accounting degree actually came handy for me because i used to work with advertising sales people and we used to go to different client doing the design and discussing on the advertising opportunity and at the same time i use the visual design um skill and also the accounting skill because commerce is a big part in advertising and eventually from there i moved to ux because i saw that the graphic design is actually evolving and this is becoming more digital and i was looking at thinking about the future and i thought that in future there will not be any print materials it will be more about digital so i moved into digital design and and did a course in ux and i moved to officeworks um as an um digital production designer and optimization especially where i used to work for now all the merchandise um and the managers to promote all the products every week and in that role so that accounting degree actually came handy because i had to do the weekly performance report for how much sales is happening based on this design and could identify that which product will be useful for the next week's promotion and also at the same time we started working on the optimization spot and i found that one quite interesting because you cannot do you cannot keep doing the same design role for whole your life you need to think about that or what else you can do so that optimization was the next level that where you can see which design is actually performing better and which layout is performing better for a website and yeah so from there i moved to telstra as a full-time crs specialist um where i used to use the tool for a b testing layouts copy visuals and eventually found out that there is another way up which is the ai which um that that can allow me to do much more um larger scale optimization and eventually move into the yeah you're all great thank you um it's yeah it's great to hear um hear how you uh found different pathways around particularly entering the job market as an international student um i know a lot of our international students will value hearing journeys hearing a journey like that so thank you for sharing that um how can those who study disciplines other than steb add value in ai so i know you've um you've demonstrated that you've been able to make those progressions so what advice would you give to our students that aren't coming from that stem background yeah how do they add value in this job market i think uh one of the thing is that um a degree is a is for you to get expertise in certain area but um it will not um asking you to stay in that role like if you're doing an masters in business or masters in commerce doesn't mean that necessarily you'd be an accountant or um commerce person but it's more like that you have to find the strength or i think the most important thing is um create team creative and strategic thinking so that will lead you to where you want to go um the certain profession varies the degrees the end goal because that will define what you do like say for instance a general practitioner as a medicine specialist you cannot be a medicine specialist without doing the degree because you need certain skills to do be in that provision certain recognition and validation but the other professions are like his skills so you have to upskill yourself and you have to find the restraint of which type of thing you enjoy most like for me i always enjoy tech and arts and like a mix of everything whereas this um what i do now is optimization or customer journey is like that's what is it is so it has all has to be a visual copy content creativity and at the same time the technology so yeah great thank you um yeah creating strategic thinking um i i might throw to james now i imagine that's something that has come into play with you in your current role um and james you've had quite a diverse career um a brief career as well i might add you've um you've had quite a few interesting experiences in in quite a short amount of time which is very impressive um in the in technical fields um can you give us a brief overview of um something that of some of the experiences you've had that have led you to where you are now yeah sure thing so so i will add that uh my career has been um one of a classic atlassian career in the sense that um the the degree that i did was the same as a lot of the people um in my company as well as the founders uh and that led me to do a couple of different i wanted to try a couple of different experiences during uni to figure out what i liked and didn't like at the end of the day because it's a good it's a good training ground uh to explore uh different opportunities so some examples of being you know data analytics i was business analyst at american express then i did some cyber security work at westpac but ultimately my real passion for for startups um for building you know my own business uh and then that's what ultimately led me to the the product manager role um so so that's that's a key part of product management is you know leading a team um and driving a strategy forward uh and that's that's what really led me to to at last seen at the end of the day great um that's yeah i love that that um you identified those um entrepreneurial skills in your in your uni life and that's really what's kind of progressed you to where you are today um yeah and that they can be applied not just in a in a setting of creating your own business an idea but but but working within a company as well in that career so thank you james um james i'm gonna i'm gonna stick with you on this one how important have soft skills been to your progression and to getting you and to assisting you in your career working in ai yeah so i think i think this this question always applies to to most uh to most areas of of working um but soft skills are definitely the uh i would say the most important part um again for ai there are definitely some some if you want to go into a technical role in ai yes you do need some uh uh technical background with you know statistics and you didn't know what you're doing um and you'd be able to speak that kind of language as well um but in terms of the soft skills uh if you think about any part of the business you know even for ai i certainly be able to communicate you know why we're doing something and that's to both internal teams and external customers as well and need to be able to uh link up you know possible applications of ai towards um what the customer actually wants uh and to link it within you know the customer journey as well um so an example is like if you look at a more customer tour like facebook um in the past when you tried to you know add a friend uh it might have just been an alphabetical list of people um but now it'll say you know the the top people you're most likely to add will come up on top um and it's a similar it's a similar part uh or similar pathway to to what we've done last thing was identify you know what are those top things um that uh those top user journeys rather um that we can improve and that's what would uh we kind of focus on so i guess in terms of those soft skills like communication uh of you know what we're doing uh is it sounds really simple but if you get that right uh it'll do well throughout your career great thank you um and james what advice would you give to students studying technical courses similar to what you did and who are perhaps on a similar pathway based on the experiences that you've had yeah so i would say um the number one thing especially if you want to focus on on ai as well is to get curious about the industry this means you know stay up to date with what openai and what google and netflix and all the well i guess the the leaders you could say nai are doing um because that's where the real groundbreaking stuff ends up happening um you might not be able to use some of those things for a while uh but it's important to stay on top of that and to be curious about that um that also means digging deep so going going into some of the you know the papers that people write i know it kind of looks a bit bland and boring but once you dig into it a bit you you'll see that you build up you know techniques for how to approach particular problems with ai because that usually means understanding you know what what algorithm to apply to a particular problem you know is this a linear regression or is this a k-nearest neighbors sort of problem um and the the last thing is kind of what i mentioned before is that you know there's a lot of these algorithms and tools available uh for free um to be used by anyone today uh and that means you're signing up for any hackathons that ai it means trying to build something yourself even if it's just following the tutorial on youtube um getting some sort of exposure to you know not just having uh maybe your base technical background in in java or something but moving to python and looking at you know what sort of tooling uh is used as well in the industry right thank you that's really really great advice there um nianz i might throw to you as well um just on that last point um what advice do you have for students who aren't who perhaps aren't studying a technical discipline but are really looking to forge a career similar to yourself or in other areas supporting ai development in australia i guess from a non-technical background important there are some areas avenue setting can take so um the ai from one end is that how to develop the ai the other area is that how to use the ai tools like the finish tool so from a non-technical background i think it's important to understand the business and the trends and where it's heading and and from a customer journey like why the this ai can play a crucial role and how it will benefit the customer and at the same time it will benefit the business and they're citing the key issue and and the people who are from a non-technical background they can see like how their skill if it's a business student how that person's skill can be useful for doing that thing that connecting the dot um in the business um or if it's a person with them trying to be a business analyst that business analyst can be can work in an ai team to connecting the dot between the business managed business objective or the sales target with this ai tools and getting the requirements ready that that person can deliver yeah yeah thank you um so this question i might actually um give to both of you from your different perspectives what is the best way for students to gain experiences in this field um so you mentioned internships um as well yeah what's your advice uh for students on on on those experiences i know james you sort of touched on um building something yourself which i love i think that's great um yeah yes um i think for this experiences obviously telestra um and many other companies have the grad program and if within the grad program you have the choice of selecting the which part of the business you want to work and in telus obviously there are opportunities to work in different business areas where you they are actually focused on um and advanced um analytics and ai stuff so um if you can go through the grad grad programs um and obviously that will give you the opportunity to pick up the roles um uh within ai that's the way of doing it and obviously if there is startup if and they allow internships so yeah great great excellent um and james yeah i'd say i'd say something pretty similar it's like it's pretty um i guess i would say it was it's pretty rare to go and apply for an ai role as uh like a base graduate um and just jump right in um and it's literally because uh if you're on a more technical side if you're jumping right into that sort of role um you usually have a phd and if it's the non-technical side then you've usually gone in through like other means in the company but this means that uh you need to be more aware i guess of which companies uh have these sorts of roles open because not every company i guess has has a focus on on ai um like like you know telstra and atlassian obviously two of them um but uh you're looking at what like rotational grad programs say because that's that's actually how i ended up getting into ai as well is that i went through a rotational grad program for for product management um and then landed in this particular field um in terms of startups i also think that's a really good uh place because uh i know startups end up loving uh doing things with with artificial intelligence and whatnot and they're usually easier to get at least some sort of working experience with um ultimately it's been able to show a passion for for that particular area uh if you're going after those um those uh you know smaller smaller companies as well great thanks um i like the the point you raised there just about um having a passion for it james um how and i would put this to both of you how important do you think that sense of purpose um or having that passion or drive is to to your success in a field in ai all right i'll take it first um so i'd say i'd say almost uh almost 100 um and the reason the reason why i say that is uh and again i think this applies to to most roles is uh like when you're applying for roles i know that a lot of a lot of you listening will probably be doing that soon um is questioning you know why uh you're applying for it um and that will help not only you yourself to understand if this is the right pathway forward for you but it will also help when you go into an interview and that's usually one of the questions the interviewer will ask you is like why are you applying to atlassian why are you playing the product management why are you playing for an ai team um and uh it'll really like crystal like it make it make things a little more crystal clear for you know why you're doing something um in particular yeah i agree with what james mentioned um obviously the why is the biggest question people will ask and and this is something that you have to have the passion otherwise you will not be able to answer the question because ai is not like that it will set and not changing it's changing every quarter there is new innovation so if you don't have the passion obviously you will lose the track of how it's first the latest trends and what's happening and how it's evolving so yeah so if you have um if you want to be in an ai role definitely have to have the passion for that one so that and people will obviously understand it if they talk with you and because they'll ask come up with a lot of why questions yes um uh i'll just wanted to quickly ask has with um the change to virtual work and the um global pandemic that we've seen in 2020 have you have you noticed any changes to the industry um that have that have come from from i guess um because of the virtual thing it's actually um i think that's fast tracking the whole a lot of the companies are actually fast tracking a lot of their plans like digitization um a lot of the companies putting emphasis on digitization i mean not the software companies like um atlassian because they are 100 on that type of thing but like companies like telstra and that home bank or utility companies they're putting a lot of emphasis on digitization which actually means that there are a lot of um a lot of work through the ai fill like how the robotics will work in the back end to process the orders or um solving some customer queries so yeah that's how it's um playing the role and i think it's been a lot fast track in this process james did you want did you have anything to add uh yeah i'd say i'd say something very similar like through through this like fast track of digitization what that means is more data is now online to be used and this means from a uh from an ai perspective it means you can start to use some of these data that you wouldn't have otherwise i guess had access to before um to be able to you know help help customers or users make better decisions faster decisions and it also brings up more problems uh because now you have more data flowing around uh you know more people interacting with one another online uh there's there's gonna be a lot of these you know bigger problems that are there to be solved as well by ai that's great um that's great i very optimistic i guess outlook um in a time where that may not have felt that way so that's good to know that there that it's i guess it's sort of been propelling that growth forward um my i we're yeah we're we're getting we'll get close to opening up to some questions from the audience but i guess my last question for each of you is where what's an exciting prediction that you might have for ai in five years time so what's something that's on your um and perhaps i might start with you james your to-do list if you could build anything with knowing where the industry is going what would you like to see happen it can be ridiculous if you like yeah so i think uh from again from from our perspective um like from alaska's perspective it's like uh we want to we want to ensure that whatever we're building with ai is actually helping people um and not just you know something something kind of flashy in saying that there are always flashy things coming up um so one of the latest uh things which maybe some of the some of the people online may have heard of is gpt3 which is an algorithm developed by openai and it's it's it's used for i guess we can call conversational ai so with this particular algorithm you can tell it you can explain in plain english something you want it to do and it was it's pre-trained on pretty much the entire internet um to give you back an a relevant answer so an example might be you know write write a a computer program that is a calculator or something and it will provide you code that does that particular action now this is pretty interesting because we've we've never gotten to this point before um and the and taking advantage of this for being able to you know answer uh answer emails or reply to documents automatically automatically or write articles automatically it is it is quite scary but it's also going to be extremely powerful in five years when it becomes i guess more mainstream and usable by by other companies thank you yes i guess um for me five years time is more like um it's um how the business i i know that that it will evolve quite rapidly and it's inevitable like how we'll use ai but what all i expect is that it will be um the use of ai will be ethical and obviously the data has to be data privacy needs to be ensured and yeah yeah so there's a lot of work perhaps to be done around the regulatory business perspective so my thinking is from non-technical is more like how this can impact our life no i like that i think the um uh the idea of thinking about how how it impacts everyday life not just um not just a business as well is really is really useful so thank you for sharing that um another question i would ask of both of you is have you had a mentor play a role in your career progression um is yeah is do you have any advice for our students around um approaching mentorship um or see ing that out as a way to sort of really help guide their career progression in this space is there a culture of mentoring in ai from what you found i guess it's for me i i haven't had the chance to get a mentor but it's more for me is always look for seek the right seeking knowledge like going through the right industry forum or the right side like if you feel like there is adobe's experience leak to understand how ai is playing role in commercial side from a commercial perspective a retail perspective so i think if there is not much mentoring opportunity i had came across but it's more for me like how you can find the information or getting the knowledge great thank you yeah i would say a game mentor is a great great idea if you can so usually there's uh and again it's it is about where you're getting the knowledge from so it could be um uh you know like industry events uh such as these um uh or it could be just randomly hitting people up on on linkedin i guess the most important thing if you're if you're going down that path is just to have an agenda uh with what you're trying to get out of a mentorship with that particular person or if you're being a mentee so have an idea of you know hey there's a decision that i have whether it's you know i want to learn more about ai or a particular part of of ai or it could be you know any industry in particular actually and to keep that connection alive because uh having having those connections of people that have you know done things you know maybe five or ten years before you have uh or even more is is going to be super useful later down the line great thank you thank you both for sharing uh sharing that today with us um i couldn't agree more uh james i think um yeah approaching mentors with a clear purpose is a really great way to cement that relationship um excellent all right so we're going to open up to q a there's been a couple of questions coming through so if you've got questions um for james and niaz please pop them in the q a and we'll get through um as many as we can um we've got one here um how is the australian job market uh for software developers and data scientists which would the panel recommend majoring in for getting into machine learning and ai roles so quite a specific technical question there um james do you have any advice for students who perhaps are looking at at their major choices um and yeah any advice on that yes so i guess from a uh definitely a technical perspective there's a lot of just analytics roles in general um if you think about the trends that has been happening as you mentioned before it's like you know more companies are putting their data online um there's more data to be like like even even analyzed in the first place um and more people want faster answers uh like you more exact swan faster answers as well um so in terms of analytics teams themselves um have been growing rapidly like when i was i was at deloitte uh two years ago in their data analyst team and when i left a year later um the growth had nearly tripled the team uh so definitely a uh like analytics as a whole is is growing in general um and this means that there's more teams uh uh looking towards you know ai and more machine learning aspects as well i wouldn't say every company is at a point where they have a whole team dedicated towards machine learning um but they're definitely dipping their toes in like we've gone from uh no one in 2018 to now a team of uh 20 or so people focused on you know how we can bring machine learning to it to atlassian and i know unlike other companies they're really even faster yeah that's some impressive growth there james thanks for sharing that with us um i i'd have a for i'd add a follow-up question to that as well um often um that question around choosing specializations and majors um at uni how important is the difference between those technical majors is there um is it easy if you if you've gone down a data science stream to then switch into software development in different roles how important um are those streams have you found from your career uh so i'd say it's it's pretty interchangeable um obviously on the degree but on your on your passion for what you do outside of uni um like i'm sure a bunch of bunch of you like writing your own programs or building building whatever on the side um and it's really those things that are you know where your passion lies that's that's what's gonna drive your your career for the day great that's good to know it's good to know that even in the technical field there is that bit of flexibility and movement um and that goes without saying now is for you um where there's a will there's a way um and you've quite clearly demonstrated that um how you've applied your your commerce knowledge and your design um to forge the career that you have um i'm gonna go to in the next one hr is changed is changing dramatically in recent times how are ai and hr um integrated to ensure strategic growth and are there any upcoming opportunities in this area for international students so i guess i'd put that to the to both of you have you have either of you seen the adoption of ai in in how it's changing hr um i think there is some development in um of using am ai to identify help the hr to identify the best candidates but um that's uh for us the example that i've seen is more in the rnd phase but yeah there will be eventually that will the ai will determine a lot of the things based on your um applications and um interview process and everything yeah right yeah i'd say there's nothing there's nothing super groundbreaking yet that's in because it's it's a lot of it's a lot of yeah in in production sorry in uh development uh kind of phases and this this applies to um you know most most industries as well if you look at i guess uh maybe new startups coming up in the in the hr area usually they'll try to i guess apply ai in a particular way or maybe a new fashion that you know some of the larger companies i have not thought of before um but but yeah i haven't i haven't seen it in any mainstream hr program that that we've been using right right so that perhaps a space to watch so um perhaps we will have you guys back here in a couple of years time to be talking about how ai has disrupted and changed graduate recruitment perhaps great um i've got a question here around ux design so i might um direct that to you niaz um is there a high demand for roles for ux and human-centered design in this in this industry and what suggestions would you give to ux undergrads that are looking for an internship or those experiences in ux design i guess the hcd or the human centered design is is like a norm now for many of the large companies because all the companies are moving into agile all the big companies and um one of the key elements of agility is that you have to understand the customer journey and for that one is ux is a key key component of that one to identify the customer pain points and everything um the demand i guess there's a lot of ux people but it's more on like which area you want to focus so that's that's actually the main driver so you you have the ux qualification but in which area you want to implement that one in which type of industry it demands a difference from different industry and obviously to get experienced for ux i think the best is to start up is the best place and to get some work experience that's great so the yeah the startups and the i guess the smaller smaller enterprises are a really good entry point um and i imagine it's the same um that that advice applies to international students as well now's from your experience great um what other good resources are there for ai news so i guess james you you mentioned you know staying staying on top of the industry and being informed and getting and students staying in the know um i mainly read as technical which is primarily a new source for tech in general so do you have any any other um any other news sources you could point students in and and i'd put that to you niaz as well is there anything that from a non-technical perspective in this industry that that students should be clued into yeah i'd definitely say uh think about who the leaders are in in ai right like it's it's open ai um which is either must back that company it's google netflix um youtube think of any any software that has you know a lot of a lot of algorithms kind of powering it even tick tock and facebook um and then and then you can dig a bit deeper into i know that google will like publish a lot of the work that they do um they have a full blog on google ai you can go like look it up um and then in terms of uh if you want to go even deeper than that for how the actual thing works usually there's like ai conferences that are reproduced onto youtube um so if you look up conferences talking about your netflix's algorithm i know there's thousands of papers on that another good another good source of material in general is medium like medium.com and looking up ai on there that's where usually uh people will post you know relevant um you know new algorithms that are that are coming out uh and that's where usually a lot of you know uh discussion happens as well great thank you yes uh for me i think um from a non-technical perspective a lot like um how i look at it that how what are the available tools um for which industry and for that sort of information i normally go through all the companies that provide the aoi um capability to us like say amazon or adobe and optimizely and all those sort of companies or sales forces so they have all the tools so for me like as i am from a non-technical background i always see the available tool that i can use um and i think those are the areas where i can get the information great thank you we've got a question here what are the important industrial knowledge on top of ai skill sets that will help in this career and is it difficult to transition in ai from one industry to another so i think this question really touches on what i mentioned at the start which is i guess the adoption of ai across these huge industries and how they're changing it in different ways for example is if you want to work in ai in the health sector how important would that industry the health industry knowledge be and is it easy to go between you know retail and different services with ai i guess for any industry the moment you want to switch to a different industry you obviously there is some requirements to understand the industry but that's not hard that you need to study uh six months to understand the industry is just the knowledge of general knowledge and understanding how the market runs like if if you're thinking of moving from telstra uh retail which is telecom to retail purists like coals or that sort of thing so in that case i have to understand how the australian retail market works compared to the telecom because telecom might act differently than the retail the groceries and all those sort of things so it's more about the basic knowledge you need to know and the tools will have the tools will give you the guidance that oh this is i think how how i can use that knowledge like the ai yeah but the industry knowledge not necessarily that you have to know like you have to master the knowledge industry right yeah i'd say i'd say pretty similar like even even moving between teams within a company is kind of the same thing right so um i guess for for product and design and engineering um you know as long as you're able to uh take the skills that you already have uh and and just reapply them to a different context area um then there's nothing to stop you moving from you know to different parts of different industries rather like i did the same when i moved from like mobile team to the mobile apps team originally and then i moved to the smart team right excellent um now we've got a technical question here um so we might direct that one to you james um as an ai technician how many languages do we need to be exposed to be more competent and grasp more professional opportunities in this industry uh yes i mean there's obviously like uh there's a few few basic ones um uh like be be competent in in python and and java like some some basic programming languages that are used more uh consistently in the aai field uh and then also have some uh knowledge or curiosity about like the latest algorithms coming out and be able to explain all like the basic you know statistics right um those are those i guess kind of the main building blocks um in saying that you don't need to know everything the same that applies to most roles as well i'm sure i'm sure design as well it's like you don't even know every single technique there is out there because there's thousands and thousands coming out all the time right um but it's about it's about i guess having that initial curiosity around it um yeah if that kind of makes sense right excellent um and i'd put the next question to you nas um what's your advice for work now for working with technicians do you have any particular advice because i know you you work like you mentioned you work quite closely with data scientists uh do you have any advice for how to best work in that field when when you're not a technician yourself yeah i understand so for me i think even when i started working with the ml team so initially the term they use i know that all of the terms that i i will not understand because there is so many um terms they use and the languages and what sage maker or notebook those all those tools they use so for me the important thing is to understand the process like what are the stage in their whole if they want to build a machine learning uh model so what are the process they have to come through so i at least understand that's the process so when i talk with them i normally ask in which stage are you in so if they said i'm in this stage or back testing or testing the model or putting them doing the data um creating the attributes or features that's what i need to know and i understand okay he's in that stage and i think for data scientists it's important for them to feel like that the people they're working with understand that process then then it's more comfortable for everyone and that's also part of the soft skill that you will have to think about when the other person perspective understand the perspective he's talking yeah thank you that's that's good advice um now one more question for you james um james what are your thoughts on microsoft's recent breakthrough in automatic image capturing yes i think uh i think there's a lot of companies that are looking at um i guess more ways to analyze more pieces of of information uh and image image is one of them um but this is also being you know the the one before that was text um and then if you think about you know all the other ones out there is like voice uh like you know voice to text and speech recognition and then translation um so in in my opinion it's just a uh the next evolution or the next what i call the depth exploration um that just has to happen and microsoft is that's that's going to be uh you know taking care of that much like you know google and and microsoft these these are kind of the guys that uh you have the the r d teams within them to productionize um some of these uh some of these algorithms uh what i'd be super interested to see is uh where they actually end up using it so i don't know if any of you remember but uh i think it was two years ago three years ago amazon released a a camera that could show you in [Music] in whatever outfit uh you wanted um and it will tell you if the outfit looks good or not um and that was like a complete failure and that that used ai uh but not in a way that was guess useful or or production ready um so that's what i'm kind of interested on the microsoft side and this applies to you know new technologies in general as well there's always that element of trial and error essentially yeah um i'll just um okay we're almost at four o'clock so um i think we've got most of the questions done um we might wrap up there actually um so i'd like to thank um our panelists for joining us this afternoon james and niaz um your insights into the ever evolving world of ai are much appreciated a d we thank you sincerely and we have a gesture of appreciation coming to both of you as well so thank you both for joining us today we're really grateful um attendees we encourage you to connect with the careers and employabilities um to continue the conversation um if you'd like to discuss your career plans gain feedback on your applications and employment documents or practice your interview skills please book in for one-on-one virtual appointments or visit students.unimail.edu.aufordslash careers for a range of our digital resources as well but yes we'd like you to stay in touch um and finally thank you everyone for joining us today thank you to my colleagues shirlene and daniel for assisting in the event and everyone have a nice afternoon thank you very much thanks you