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>> So, good afternoon and welcome to William G. McGowan at the National Archives. I am David Ferriero, the archivist of the United States. I am pleased that you would be joining us here, whether in person or in the YouTube station, a special welcome to our friends at C-SPAN, what a better place to talk about Stephen Puleo's book American Treasures: The Secret Efforts to Save the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Gettysburg Address, the National Archives is full of treasures, some of it undiscovered, some quite famous with the most famous one those named in the book's title. We often assume that they were always here and were destined to be, how they came about and how they survived to our day is not always a straight path, however. Before we get to that fascinating story though, I would like to let you know about two other programs coming up Thursday, October 13 at noon, we will screen a new historical documentary film, the Year of the Tiger, JFK, 1962 which featured images, audio recordings from the National Archives and other sources to chronicle the October 1962 Cuban missile crisis. The film's director Joe Looby will be here to answer questions. Wednesday, October 19, 7 p.m. A'lelia Bundles, journalist, author and chair of the National Archives Foundation will moderate a panel on revolutionary movements black power and Black Lives Matter. It's presented by the National Archives employee Affinity Group, Say it Loud, in commemoration of the 50th Anniversary of the founding of the black power movement. To learn more about these, all of the public programs and exhibits, consult our monthly calendar of events in print or online at archives.GOV. There is copies in the lobby as well as a sign-up sheet, you can receive it regular mail or E-mail. You will find brochures about other National Archives' activities. Earlier I said that we are in a most appropriate place to talk about Stephen Puleo's- -- oh. About Stephen Puleo's American Treasures, above us are two of the documents he writes about, the Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution. When the building was constructed in the 1930's the rotunda was designed to display those two, plus the Bill of Rights. When the National Archives' building opened to the public in 1936 only the Bill of Rights occupied its display case. We had to wait until 1952 to bring all founding documents together. The story of how the Declaration and Constitution came to the National Archives is the one we never tire of hearing. Now, I would like to introduce Jessie Kratz, the historian. Jessie became the first of our agency's historian in 19 -- in 2013. She was previously with the Center for Legislative Archives and has been with the agency since 1999. Please welcome Jessie Kratz. (APPLAUSE) >> Thank you, David. I am very happy that Steve could be with us today during American Archives Month to talk about his new book American Treasures. His work demonstrates not only the importance of the records created by other federal agencies but also the importance of the records that we at The National Archives have created ourselves, in writing his book Steve consulted several different sets of records, but the one that is nearest and dearest to my heart is the record of the National Archives. These recorded helped tell us story as an institution how we came to be who we were and how we got there. The documents trace our growth and development and range from the correspondence of the first archivist of the United States R.D.W. Connor to the 53 gigabytes that we just transferred into the collection. It provided the background Steve needed to show how the Declaration of Independence and Constitution came here. It was a pleasure to work with Steve and pleasure and honor to introduce himself. He is a public speaker and prolific author of The Caning: The assault that drove America to Civil War, and Dark Tides are just two of his many publications. He holds a master's degree in history and teaches the subject in Suffolk University, Boston. He is an award-winning reporter and contributes to the Boston Globe. You can read about his book in the fall issue of Prologue. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Stephen Puleo. (APPLAUSE) >> STEPHEN PULEO: Thank you Jessie and thank you David. Welcome today. I need to say this. David and Jessie have been terrific supporters of me and encouragers of me on this book. If -- if the rest of the archive staff is as wonderful as them, I tell you the Declaration the Constitution and Bill of Rights are in very, very good hands. You should feel good about that. I want to thank you folks for being here today. Are there visitors here, people from outside the Washington area? How many do we have? Okay, good. A good representation of that. Great. I want you to know I am from the Boston area, for me to speak in this esteemed theater in this fabulous building is like somebody taking batting practice or playing at Fenway Park, it's a shine, some of you may know the Sox. But for me this is a fabulous place to be, I am thrilled to be here. For you folks who could be doing many other things in the great city, hundreds and hundreds of other things, I do appreciate you being here. It's wonderful. This book, for me, has been a real labor of love. It is on one level the story of how the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Gettysburg Address were moved out of Washington by the Library of Congress where they were at the time. In the aftermath of Pearl Harbor they were moved for safety reasons for fear of sabotage or bombs, et-cetera, destroying our very priceless documents. And those three documents, along with others, moved to Fort Knox, Kentucky. They would be the largest relocation of American documents in history for safekeeping. Thousands of others would get moved to other locations during the second world war for safekeeping. So, that's one thread, one narrative thread that American Treasures works on. But I realized as I was doing the research, in order to really understand the why, why are these documents so precious, why are these documents so priceless, why did we go out of the way to save them. Why did President Roosevelt feel such a strong connection to the documents, he felt he was a steward to these documents. Why about Library of Congress feel the same way the Secret Service led my -- Harry Neal, the lead agent in charge of helping to relocate these documents, why did they feel so strongly about it? I have to go back and I had to talk about the creation of these documents. The ideas contained in them, and the many steps that were taken throughout our history to protect these documents and preserve them. So, in this book I take you back to 1776 to the creation of the Declaration of Independence. That late spring, early summertime, including probably the four most remarkable days in all of American history, July 1 through 4. Where independence is debated, voted on on July 2, not July 4 but July 2. John Adams of Massachusetts said July 2 would be remembered as an epic day with brilliant bonfires, illumination, bands and celebrations. So he was just two days off. But that was July 2. July 3 when Jefferson's Declaration is debated. And July 4th when it's adopted. So I take you back there and bring you back to the second world war years. I take you back to 1787 in Philadelphia. That real steamy, hot summer when the Constitution was debated and ratified, or debated and adopted, ratified a little later. Where the principles of the Declaration of Independence are codified into law. Laws that we still use today, a document that is so meaningful today. I take you back to 1814, when the British literally invaded and burned Washington. They burned the President's house, they burned the Capitol and other buildings. A clerk by the name of Steven Pleasanton, State Department clerk, has the presence of mind to take the original Declaration and stuff them in linen sacks and have them taken out to Virginia for safe keeping. He does it in defiance of the secretary of war who at the time says - the British aren't coming to Washington. >> STEPHEN PULEO: They are not coming. They have no interest in Washington. They are only going to Baltimore. Pleasanton says, I don't think so, realizes the impact to the nation's psyche, very young nation at the time. And he moves those documents out of there. At the same time, almost the same time Dolly Madison is at the White House until the very last second. Her husband James is in the field with his troops. Dolly is at the White House until the last second and she saves many, many critical documents, including her husband's notes of the Constitutional convention of 1787, which no American knew existed at the time. From me doing the research I felt that connection as I was going through Madison's papers, and his notes from the convention. Saying to myself, I would not be able to do this if not for Dolly's heroics in 1814. I take you back to 1823. When Washington, DC engraver William Stone creates the first exact replica of the Declaration of Independence. An exact facsimile. Lots of patriotic fervor around this time. After the war of 1814 John Quincy Adams says, I want you to create something that is precisely a replica of the engrossed Declaration. What do we mean by "engrossed"? It's the document you see in the rotunda, if you haven't already. The beautifully calligraphy documents with flourishes, curlicues, slashes and underlines, and the signatures underneath of the delegates. Lots of debate going into 1823 about who created a replica. There are other copies made, none exactly like the original engrossed document. William Stone does that. It takes him three years, unveils it in 1923 on the 4th of July. It's that replica that essentially becomes the starting point for the millions and millions of copies of the Declaration of Independence that you might have in government buildings, that you might have in schools, that you can pick up in the archives store if you like. Or that you might have hanging in your home, like my parents did. We sold my parents home a couple of years ago, one of the last things I took off the wall down in our little basement was the replica copy of the Declaration of Independence that my folks had purchased during the American bicentennial in 1976. That gets unveiled in 1823. I take you back to July 4th, 1826. The 50th Anniversary of the signing -- of the adoption of the Declaration of Independence. America's golden jubilee, and again this great rebirth of patriotism to celebrate the 50th Anniversary but July 4 of 1826 is elevated to a whole new level. When two of our greatest founders Thomas Jefferson and John Adams die on the exact same day. Raises the gravitas of July 4th to a religious kind of holiday. The level that we kind of celebrate July 4th today is almost as a direct result of Adams and Jefferson's death on July 4 of 1826. That was not the only July 4, on 1831 five years later, Revolutionary War hero James Monroe dies on July 4th. Further kind of elevating the 4th of July. You learn a little bit about that. I take you back to 1863. When President Abraham Lincoln is dedicating a cemetery to small crossroads town in central Pennsylvania. And delivers his masterful two and a half minute speech. My presentation to you today will be 20 times longer than the Gettysburg Address. I am sorry to say, nowhere near as memorable. I hope you enjoy it but nowhere near as memorable. He forever broadens the meaning of all men are created equal in that speech. We will talk a little bit about that. I take you back to 1876 America's centennial celebration in Philadelphia where the original engrossed Declaration of Independence is kind of trotted out for display and proclamation. And there is real concern about the physical deterioration of the document. Maybe for the first time there had been mutterings about it through the years on the hundredth anniversary, real concerns about the fading, the signatures fading. We will talk a little bit about that. Into the 20th Century there is the movement of the documents from the State Department to the Library of Congress. Then those World War II years that we will talk about. And then the date David alluded to in 1952 when the original Declaration and original Constitution get transferred from the Library of Congress to the National Archives. One of the most I would say maybe the most important history -- day in the history of this building for sure. But quite a day. So, you will go back and forth like that. Because when you think about it, folks, the history of these documents really is the history of our country. The parchment themselves yes, but the ideas contained in them. I had a perceptive editor say to me once: America has no crown jewels, but if she did, it would be these documents. I don't think there is any question about it. Ours is the first Constitutional republic that can trace its very founding back to a single document. That's the Declaration of Independence. And I would argue this, I would argue that the principles that are -- that our country and government rest on, the aspirations of our country, because we don't always get it right, but I think we aspire to, can really be traced back to really a single paragraph. We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal. That they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are -- what are they? >> (inaudible) >> STEPHEN PULEO: Yeah, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Which we all know. Maybe the lesser known part of that paragraph, that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men. Deriving -- wait for it. Deriving their just power from the consent of the governed. That's Jefferson's iconic second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence. And as I said, our concepts of freedom of liberty of equality rest on that second paragraph. And think about when he does this, lest you take that for granted folks. Think about when he does this in 1776, this is the era of warlords, dictators and Monarchs. That's what we are talking about. Monarchs who ruled by fiat, and everyone else just about did as they were told. This notion of equality, of governments deriving their power from the people, it's a complete foreign concept. A revolutionary, dare I say it, concept in 1776. Eleven years later, Gouverneur Morris writes the preamble to the Constitution. That's his unusual first name Gouverneur Morris. Abagail Adams, who wrote phonetically writes it that way, that's the best that we have to pronounce his name. When he writes: We the people of the United States, again, he is representing the codification of those principles that were in the Declaration. And when he says: We need to secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and for our posterity in that preamble that's what he is talking about. For the current generation and for future generations. And later on during the discussion of the presidency, during the Constitution convention, the federal convention in 1787, lots to talk about, how much power the president was going to have, it was Morris who says during the discussion, this chief executive, this chief executive is not going to be the king in this new government; he will be more like the prime minister. The people are the king. Again, unheard of in 1787. And later on, when Abraham Lincoln stands before that gathering at Gettysburg and says, these men have died so that a nation can live, and when he implores the audience that these dead shall not have died in vain, this nation shall have a new birth of freedom, and the government of the people, by the people and for the people shall not perish from the earth, what is he saying? Abraham Lincoln, a great admirer of the founders and a great admirer of the Declaration and the Constitution. Is saying this: He knows that the issue of slavery, the scourge of slavery was the big omission from these documents. And yet what he says is: Those documents hold the key for this nation to bind its wounds. Now, we don't scrap the Declaration of Independence, we broaden the interpretation of, all men are created equal. We don't need to tear up the Constitution, because the framers have given us the power to what? Amend the Constitution. And so that's a very, very important point. Lincoln who said back in 1861, as early as 1861 said that his favorite principle in the Declaration is that everyone had an equal chance. In a very eerie kind of prophetic statement says: And rather than surrender that principle, I would rather be assassinated on the spot. He says in 1861. Kind of chilling when you read it. That's how much he believed in these documents. Very, very important. And these documents are important for other reasons too. When you think about the steps that were taken in the second world war to protect them. One of the big reasons is this: These documents were not predestined. They were not foregone conclusions. They were extremely hard to come by. In 1776, remember, what did we have at that time? Your classic one-third, one-third, one-third. One-third of the people in general were Tories, loyal to the crown, one-third wanted revolution and splitting from the crown, and in this election year I think appropriately one-third were undecideds, right? They were undecideds. They weren't really pulled, but they were undecideds. And the delegates, by the way, certainly weren't all in agreement. John Dickenson of Pennsylvania said to separate right now from Britain would be like tearing down our house without having another place to live, and asking our neighbor to take us in. It would be like setting sail in a skiff made of paper. Terrible idea. Let's wait he says. Let's wait until Europe kind of recognizes us. Let's wait until the time is right. But finally when the delegates approve independence on July 2nd. When the Declaration is adopted on July 4th there would be no more waiting. And after it's engrossed, it takes a couple of weeks for the document to be beautiful engrossed by Timothy Matlock, they step up and sign the document most of them on August 2 of 1776. They realize the solemnity of the moment. They are doing so under great risk. Colonies are at war, if they lose it's likely the signers are killed found guilty of treason for sure, no question about it. But even during the war, concerns that the families would be harmed the farms would be harmed, they would be harmed once the signer's names got out into the general public. They step up and they do it. My favorite example or favorite quote is as the signing is taking place on August 2nd, 69-year-old Rhode Island delegate Steven Hopkins - Hopkins he is a little bit of Parkinson's disease palsy. When he signed he had a shaky signature you can see it on the Declaration. Hard to see now look at the replicas you can see it. When he stepped up, as he stepped up he said: My hand trembles but my heart does not. Very kind of big moment. And during the Constitution, are you kidding me? The convention almost falls apart. There is a huge battle between the large state delegates, to Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Virginia, New York. And the small state delegates defined then New Jersey, Maryland, Delaware, Connecticut, et-cetera. What was the issue over? It was over how would these states be represented in congress. Large state guys Madison, Hamilton, Washington, said, all of the representation should be done according to population proportional representation. Small states said huh-uh, that is not going to work for us. The power of the states will be diluted. William Patterson of New Jersey said when the large state folks put forth the plan for representation, New Jersey will never agree to this plan, she would be swallowed up. Delaware says to the large state folks, to Madison and the rest: I do not, gentlemen, trust you. He did call them gentlemen. I do not trust you. Roger Sherman of Connecticut says, just before the 4th of July of 1787, we are now at a full stop, we are not going to get this thing done. Delegates break for the 4th of July, the 11th, 4th of July if you will 1787. In Philadelphia there are celebrations to take stock of what they are doing, what they are here to do. And they come back with this resolve to get something done. To make some sort of a compromise to get a new Constitution. And they do. On July 16th of 1787 the most important day, I would say, during the whole Constitutional convention, the federal convention when they come back with a grand compromise. And you know it well. What is it? In the lower house of congress, well that representation will be determined by population. And then the upper house we are going to call that the senate folks, each state would be equally represented, they would each get two. That was the deal. Neither side was very happy with this deal. Large state folks I would say were close to apoplectic. But they put it together to give us the Constitution that we have today. Not a foregone conclusion by any stretch of the imagination. And even the Gettysburg Address in November of 1863, first of all, Lincoln almost doesn't go to Gettysburg. He is an afterthought. He is invited to say a few remarks. He is not the guest speaker. That's Edward Everett of Massachusetts who delivers a two-hour oratory at Gettysburg two hours long. They say Lincoln would you like to come, you are the President, maybe say a few words, he debates what you think Stanton. He says, I don't know, what is the big deal? All right, we are going. They go. He delivers his speech. It lives forever and will live forever. But he almost doesn't go. And, by the way, the union still has to win the war. Now, by November of '63 things changed dramatically, the tide change victories at Gettysburg and Vicksburg, et-cetera. But there are 17 months of really hard fighting ahead. Nobody knows that in November of 1863. So think about that when you think about these documents. On the two ends you have the Declaration and the Gettysburg Address, where wars have to be won for the documents to have any teeth whatsoever. Otherwise, they are just paper parchment in the case of the Declaration. In the middle you have the Constitution where massive compromise, that almost nobody likes has to happen for the Constitution to be put into place. That's one of the reasons Roosevelt and MacLeish and Harry Neal of the Secret Service want to protect these documents there is another important one. When you think about the documents and go view them in the rotunda, think about this: These documents are artifacts to be sure. They are artifacts, no question about it. They are in protective cases protected from humidity and dust. From mites. You name it. Computerized systems can tell you inch by inch whether these documents are deteriorating, great conservators work here to keep those documents in the best shape possible. So they are certainly, certainly artifacts. But what else are they? They are symbols. Very, very important symbols. Again, go to the rotunda, it's a shrine, there is no question about it, the lights are kind of low. There are guards there. It tends to be quiet. Even when there is kids in there, it's quiet. And I know of what I speak. I am the husband of the principal of a pre-K to 8 school. We take 8th graders down here every year. When you are the husband of the principal you are a chaperone, by the way. You will be a chaperone and I love it. But we take our kids down there. It's quiet. The kids are quiet, they are looking at these documents. They don't quite maybe understand the significance. I try my best not to be insufferable and tell them about it while I am there. Key word is "try." (LAUGHTER) >> STEPHEN PULEO: Last year when here I was telling the kids about the Declaration I heard another kids of the other group say, hey, that guy knows what he is talking about. (LAUGHTER) >> STEPHEN PULEO: It was pretty interesting. But they are symbols, right? When they would displayed in the centennial, of 1876 the Declaration is a symbol. So they are artifacts and symbols and one other thing, right- They are our daily blueprint for how we govern. How we determine our laws. Almost how our culture operates. So this notion of all men are created equal, this broadened all people are created equal notion this notion of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is the underlying thing we think about as we are creating laws, as we are instituting rules, as we are doing things in our daily culture. And, again, it doesn't mean that we are perfect at it. But that's always part of the discussion. And the Constitution is part of our daily lives. Every time a newscaster says: Does congress have enough votes to override a presidential veto? Who will control the senate in the next election. Will the Supreme Court find this law constitutional or unconstitutional. Every single day, every single time you hear that, it's that Constitution. Part of our daily lives. And our daily governance. So, think about that. These documents are artifacts, they are symbols, they are day-to-day blueprints by which we operate. They are all of those gathered into one. So, I was thinking about that during my research, and guess what? Roosevelt and MacLeish and Harry Neal were thinking about that during the second world war. I want you to think about this. After Pearl Harbor, is attacked on December 7 of 1941, Washington goes into lockdown. Gun emplacements on the roofs. Sentrys at the war department. The White House goes dark. Right around December 9. There is debate on whether to paint the White House black, they don't, but they do paint windows black. Bullet-proof glass is installed at the oval office. Secret Service gives gas masks to the White House staff, FDR kept his on his wheelchair arm. The Secret Service build 750-foot zigzag tunnel that links the White House with the treasury department in case FDR and staff needed to get over there for safety. Food down there, clothing down there. Toilet facilities, office space down there. FDR said to Henry Morgenthau, I am not going down there unless I can play poker with all with the gold in your vaults. Never goes down there. Photos of the tunnel are still classified. You can't get them from the Secret Service archives, believe me I tried. Got a very nice note back to say can't do it. But Washington is in lockdown. There is real fear of German bombers, real fear of sabotage during this period. There is even talk, folks, about rerouting the flow of the Potomac and Anacostia rivers. Why is that? Because at the confluence of those rivers pilots could get a fix on the White House. About a while -- about a mile behind that, but right in line. There is even talk about that. FDR says during a press conference in February of 1942 during a press conference, the Germans can probably come in and bomb New York City or Washington, DC tonight. And under certain circumstances, he doesn't elaborate, under those they might be able to reach Detroit and bomb it tonight. Wow, pretty stunning. What FDR knew and only some people along the coast of the United States but certainly not all Americans knew the other thing that was going on was German U-boats were sinking American merchant ships up and down the east coast with impunity. They sunk about 600 of them from January to August of 1942. 600 of them, Cape Cod, near me. Cape May, Cape Hatteras, killing grounds for U-boats. Virginia Beach, the Outer Banks Jacksonville killing grounds for U-boats. There was palpable fear. Palpable fear. And one of the great fears, FDR feels himself in tremendous steward of these documents, one of the great fears is that these documents would be destroyed by bombs or by sabotage. And the hit to the national psyche would be devastating. Devastating. So we need to get those documents out of Washington. Now, plans had begun, have about a year earlier, even more than a year earlier. In the fall of 1940 Roosevelt MacLeish huddle, they see what is happening in England, the British lose thousands of documents when the libraries are hit during the battle of Britain during the blitz. Fire bombings incinerate these documents. The Germans are destroying millions of documents. Books, manuscripts, mostly by Jewish writers, but others too in archives. That's when the planning begins. The Librarian of Congress says to his staff: I want you to put together what we have that is utterly irreplaceable and unique. And then we are going to triage level one, two, all the way down to six, they are still important documents, but that's how we are going to do it. His staff does do that. In the spring of '41, seven months or so before Pearl Harbor, about 700 Library of Congress volunteers spend about 10,000 hours assessing, cataloging and packing critical, critical documents. 5,000 boxes of documents. The President's papers, Washington's diaries, amazing numbers of documents. The notes of the continental congress. The constitutional convention notes that I mentioned that Dolly Madison rescued. Samuel Morris' first telegraph message, what hath God wrought. Letter from Queen Victoria to Mary Todd Lincoln, her condolence letter where she says how much she feels for Mary Lincoln because she has barely gotten over the death of Prince Albert just a few months earlier. So, this incredible Americana democracy gets packed up in the spring. And when America finally goes to war after Pearl Harbor, the ball starts to roll to get these out of Washington. Starts on December 26th. 1941. The day after America's Pearl Harbor Christmas. Very eerie Christmas for Americans. Many have already sons, uncles, brothers, daughters have volunteered, many Americans are wondering whether their family members would be there the next Christmas. It's a very kind of eerie Christmas. The day after that on December 26th, Library of Congress and the Secret Service pack up the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Gettysburg Address and a few other documents. A few other what they call first tier documents. The Articles of Confederation. The Gutenberg Bible. Lincoln's second inaugural address. And one other non-American document. The Magna Carta from 1215, which is in the United States because it was on display at the 1939 New York City World's Fair. When war breaks out in Europe the Brits ask us to hold on to it for safe keeping. That's the other document that gets packed up. Archibald MacLeish makes the joke he thought that was funny the Magna Carta was right next to the Declaration of Independence. And the Secret Service transports it from the Library of Congress to Union Station, puts it on a train under heavy guard in complete secrecy. The train rumbles out to Louisville, Kentucky where the documents are put into the gold bullion depository at Fort Knox, he was asked for a room at Fort Knox. He wanted some space to put a lot more. He says because there is tons of gold here, right? Already. Morgenthau says you can have 60 cubic feet. It's the size of a freezer. Sixty cubic feet is not much. He has to make due with Fort Knox. Then where do we take the rest of these incredibly important documents. Library of staffers go on a road trip because here is what they are looking for, they are looking for places that are pretty far inland, at least maybe 50 to a hundred miles inland, looking for places that have maybe mountains around them that bombers can't get to. They are looking for places that are waterproof, fireproof, to the best possible ability humidity proof. So, they go on the sojourn looking around where to put the documents, and they end up with college repositories. The University of Virginia in Charlottesville. Washington and Lee in Lexington. VMI, Virginia Military Institute in Lexington. They realize they still don't have enough space. So they pick Denison University in Granville, Ohio, 400 miles from Washington from right here. Later on they realize that VMI has some humidity. They have to get them out of there and they take them all to Denison. So University of Virginia Washington and Louisville and Denison becomes the repository for these documents. They looked at many places over 60 places. Bowling Green, Kentucky had termites, couldn't put them there. Roanoke College had a fireproof basement but it was near a swimming pool, too much humidity, couldn't put them there. That's the kind of thing that went in to the decision of where to put them. This is all done in complete secrecy, folks. This massive relocation. Library of Congress does this but they are not the only people that do it. The National Gallery of Art, right here next to us -- am I pointing in the right direction? National Gallery of Art relocates some of its most famous paintings to the Biltmore House in North Carolina. Has humidity controls. Libraries around the country do these kinds of moves. New York public library looks for caves. That was one of the things MacLeish looked at too, but caves have leakage, have water problems and back entrances sometimes. So, some of the New York Public Library documents get moved to bank vaults in the city and to Saratoga. All of that happens during this period of time. These documents, these critical documents, the Declaration the Constitution the Gettysburg Address, they remain in Fort Knox along with these 5,000 other boxes until September of 1944. Three months or so after D-Day allies are moving to Berlin from the west the Russians are coming from the east. Not too much concern about an attack on the U.S. mainland at that point. Military intelligence says it's time to move these documents and bring them east over the Alleghanies and the Blue Ridge and bring them home. And that's what happens. By the way, there was one exception prior to this. That is so important. That took place on April 13, 1943, the 200th anniversary of Thomas Jefferson's birth during the dedication of the Jefferson memorial, in the tidal basin. April of 1943, FDR is really concerned about American morale. Been at war for 16, 17 months. It's a slog in April of '43. He thinks the dedication of the Jefferson Memorial and the display of the original Declaration of Independence will really help boost American spirits. So, the document is taken out of Fort Knox. Nobody knows where it came from. And put on display at the Jefferson Memorial for one week. Under 24-hour marine guard. Thousands of Americans come to see it. There is that symbol again. It's that symbol. And then it goes back to Fort Knox. One other point, one other part of the story I need to tell you before I get to your questions. And that is in 1952. December 13th 1952 huge day. Huge parade down Pennsylvania Avenue an avenue that has seen many parades. Military band, military vehicles. Military personnel. Accompanying the original Declaration and the original Constitution. From the Library of Congress to here (indicating). The National Archives. After many years of wrangling and infighting and some turf battles between the Library of Congress and National Archives, decision finally gets made. Truman, President Truman driving it, but the Library of Congress and National Archivist Evans, Evans and Grover getting to the -- to make it happen. The documents need to be put on display for all Americans to see. And two days later on December 15, 1952 Bill of Rights day, president Harry Truman presides over the ceremony, the enshrinement -- great word, right? The enshrinement ceremony here at the National Archives. One of Truman's last official act as president. He is in his lame duck phase, this was an important moment for him. Because he loved these documents too. He knew the value of these documents and he says to the assembled crowd here (indicating), that if these documents are simply enshrined in these cases, the ideas contained in them will die. That in order for them to live on and for the ideas embodied in them to live on, they must be enshrined, quote, in our hearts and minds. I think intrinsically, inherently, most Americans know this. I think the 1 million people that file through the rotunda every year know it. They may not express it in those words. I think they know it just like Adams, Jefferson and Dolly Madison knew it. Just like Steven Pleasanton knew it, Abraham Lincoln, FDR, MacLeish and Harry Truman knew it. For 240 years, this is the 240th anniversary. 240 years these documents and the ideas contained in them have been protected and preserved by others. Harry Truman said to this crowd: That needs to continue to happen with this generation and future generations. That would be us. Let us hope we get it right. Thank you very much. (APPLAUSE) >> STEPHEN PULEO: I would love to take questions guys I have to just tell you -- goodness, hold on. >> It's okay. >>Are you okay? >> Yes. (Discussion off record.) >> STEPHEN PULEO: He is good. Yet, this gentleman was excited to ask a question. (APPLAUSE) (LAUGHTER) >> STEPHEN PULEO: Yes, sir >> Thank you for a wonderful presentation, you have spoken in a lofty manner. My question is very practical. Lee's resolution in the second Jefferson's Declaration on the 4th, was there a vote on each ?? >> Lee's resolution is on July 2nd, he did his resolution three weeks earlier the delegates say let's see what the folks in the home colonies do, this is a big vote. Then they come back, that vote is taken on July 2nd, yes. So, on July 1st, there is a little bit of concern because at that point only 9 colonies have said yes. A lot of jockeying goes on. I talk about it in the book, a lot of jockeying goes on July 1 into the night of July 2, yes there is a vote on July 2. The adoption of the Declaration of Independence does happen July 4. >> Is there a vote on the 4th? >> STEPHEN PULEO: Yes, there is a vote on the 4th, that's a separate thing. >> I know on the second it's 12 zip, one abstention. Do you know ?? >> STEPHEN PULEO: Same, New York-- so, the congress doesn't get okay from New York until July 9th. The legislature says yes, they kind of find out July 14, 15. That's what triggered the engrossing decision. >> Okay. >> STEPHEN PULEO: That's why it says the unanimous Declaration because New York decides that. >> I want to affirm one of the statements you made. I work up in the rotunda, some of the time I swear sometimes people are having a mystical experience as they stand there. It's unbelievable. I feel like we are -- >> STEPHEN PULEO: I think that's absolutely right. I have been there several times, I totally agree with you. Thank you. Yes, sir. >>A couple of questions. Number one, what was the deciding factor that Truman used to decide the document would be here rather than the Library of Congress. Number two, I was struck by by the idea that FDR had a tunnel built between the White House and the Treasury Department as a last bastion because that's what Lincoln did in the spring of 1861 when there was no federal troops, he determined they were going to use that as a last citadel if necessary. >> STEPHEN PULEO: Right. So to answer the first question. This decision to move the documents was one that was happening for maybe close to 20 years. So when the archives is built, first built, that's one of the reasons why it's Hoover who kind of says, let's move the document. But there is a lot of resistance by the Library of Congress, face it two of its most prestigious documents ever are there. They kind of there is a lot of foot dragging and turf fighting that happens in Washington, I didn't know if you knew that. (LAUGHTER) >> STEPHEN PULEO: There was resistance that happens World War II intercedes, you know? They are moved to Fort Knox. But then there is in 1946-47 so from about '47 to '49, the Freedom Train makes its way around the United States. It has with it about 125 precious documents, not the Declaration and not Constitution, which I consider too valuable, the Bill of Rights and many other documents the Freedom Train goes to 48 states it's the only train that's gone to all 48 states, millions of people view these documents under marine guard. It's kind of this resurgence in this interest in documents kind of our history through that way. And so, Luther Evans and Wayne Grover at the time the Librarian of Congress and the national archivist. Have a series of meetings where they talk about, we need to move these is it time to move these? Congress said we should move it. It's been that kind of a thing that kind of evolution. They finally have lunch from the Cosmos Club not too far from here and reach that agreement. And there are people at the Library of Congress who are furious with Luther Evans, furious who say we will never again attain the prestige that we have. We were wrong about that, right? The Library of Congress is maybe just as -- could I say that? Maybe just as prestigious as here there was concern about that. The question about Lincoln, the tunnel. There is no discussion in the documentation that I see that alludes to the Civil War. Would Roosevelt have been aware of it? Yes, sure would Harry Morgenthau been aware and the Secret Service probably, yeah. Nothing that I can definitively say to your question, but great question though. What else. Yes, sir? >> You mentioned the Bill of Rights twice in passing, the charges of freedom, the three documents permanently on display the Bill of Rights, is there instead of the Gettysburg Address in part I assume the Gettysburg Address is too fragile that show that way. But did the Bill of Rights get the same treatment as the Constitution and the Declaration during the 1942 -- >> STEPHEN PULEO: Yeah, let me answer the question this way: First of all, I will say I will argue that the Gettysburg Address is not enshrined because it's not engrossed. You know what I am saying? So it's a manuscript copy, that's one of my -- manuscript copy I thought it was engrossed so it would get that. The Bill of Rights is here in the archives, it comes around '38 I may be a little bit off on the year from 1814 during the Steven Pleasanton time during the Bill of Rights is not mentioned in the hiding place when he takes it out to Virginia. The suspicion that is part of what he took out. There is not much known about the Bill of Rights between that time and the 1938 time when it comes to the archives. The archives during the second world war was also known as Fort Archives, why? It was one of the buildings that would be able to resist some bombings, so it stays here. It's not part of that -- of that movement out to Fort Knox. So, great question. But, yes, it's part of the -- and I kind of include it, even though it's a separate parchment, separate document, you know, I include it when I talk about it and even in the book to some extent as part of the Constitution as the first tenements to the Constitution. Even though, again, even though again they almost don't happen. Madison who the father, quote unquote, of the Bill of Rights was one of the great objectors to the Bill of Rights during the constitutional convention. So, why does he change his mind when the first congress is elected. He changes his mind because there is lots of concern from people, like George Mason, from people like Monroe, there is concern that they are not going to go along with this, they are going to call for a second convention, unless this Bill of Rights is included. They are going to call for a second convention and maybe blow up the whole Constitution Madison, and the credit goes to him, here promises that when he is elected to the first congress he will fight for a Bill of Rights and he does. That's how that kind of all nice question. Yes. >> The material that was left, Washington left under very heavy guard. When particularly the second through whatever tier. >> STEPHEN PULEO: 2nd through 6th tier. >> When those things were deposited in Washington and Lee, UVA and Dickinson. >> STEPHEN PULEO: Yes. >> What safeguard measures. >> STEPHEN PULEO: Yes. So I will tell you this, great question, did you hear the question? What kind of safeguards. They go out on tractor-trailer trucks, they go out on trucks. There is safeguards as they are being packed. There is sometimes a vehicle that accompanies them. But not a huge -- there is no huge like procession. It's done almost anonymously, if you will. Trucks would go out -- in fact, some of the boxes say Library of Congress on the side. >> (inaudible) yes. >> STEPHEN PULEO: So, one of the things MacLeish makes a bill deal of afterwards, how so many different groups of people kept this a secret. >> But one -- once the things were stored, in these repositories, what sort of measures were made to safeguard them. >> STEPHEN PULEO: Right. They were guarded 24/7 by the Library of Congress which set up guards. Library of Congress personnel visited the repositories several times to make sure things were okay with leaks, humidity and mites and vermin and all of the above. >> When those materials were returned to Washington were they reinventoried to make sure everything was still there? >> STEPHEN PULEO: Yes, yes. They were reinventoried to make sure everything was there. And the great mysteries to this day, I touch on it in the book, but probably more should be done, among the things missing were two Walt Whitman notebooks. >> Butterfly and -- >> STEPHEN PULEO: One of them turned up a little bit later, one is still missing. Amazingly, everything comes back intact, the whole thing done in secret. >> Remarkable. >> STEPHEN PULEO: Stunning, isn't it? >> Thank you. >> We have time for one more. >> STEPHEN PULEO: Yes, sir. >> First of all my condolences about the Sox. (LAUGHTER) >> STEPHEN PULEO: I didn't have a good feeling going in. (LAUGHTER) >> I wanted to underscore one of the things that you said, and that gentleman observes, by way of an anecdote. I am one of the tour guides who takes 8th graders through the hall. And it was an 8th grader from New Jersey, a young lady who came up to me, again in the hushed -- in the hushed rotunda and said: There is a man over there taking pictures. Which, of course, is not permitted. And I said, really? Where? And sure enough there was a person surreptitiously, about waist level. I said, you are right, you have to tell the guards. And she said, but he is wearing a suit. And I explained that because crooks in the world wear suits -- she went over and she did. And she and another girl, and the guard went over, took the man's camera, looked through it, deleted the things and chatted with him. I don't know what they said. Afterwards, we are getting on the bus on 9th Street, her hand comes up on the back of the bus, she said with obvious pride and appropriate meaning that she realized that they had just defended the Constitution. (LAUGHTER) >> STEPHEN PULEO: That's really good, what a way to end it. Guys, I will be signing out back, if you come up buy a book, great. If you don't choose to buy a book, please if you haven't been in the rotunda, please go. Go. Thank you very much.
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