Discover the Carpenter Bill Format for Product Management

Carpenter bill format for Product Management

I'm stas margaronis with the American Journal of transportation and we're visiting today with Jennifer Carpenter the uh head of the American waterways operators and the American Maritime partnership uh good morning from California and good afternoon to you Jennifer in Washington DC thank you very much for being with us this day very close to Christmas uh we have a lot of things that we would like to talk to you about and thank you very much for being with us thank you stas for the opportunity okay uh Jennifer let's get started with the news this week um ing to uh Gap this week President elect Trump is now indicating support for the Jones act but project 2025 which supports called for the repeal of the Jones act and during his previous presidency his administration supported waivers of the Jones act how confident should we be about the Jones act I will say this you know the Jones Act is foundational to the economic the Homeland the National Security of this country so we need to never rest in educating policy makers old or new um about its importance um I think that you know if you were to sit down in a lab and try to concoct a piece of legislation that you know sounded and looked and felt more America First than the Jones act I don't think you could do it you know the Jones Act is really about securing America's Maritime border and making sure that we as Americans are in control of our supply chain here at home um of our e Economic Security of those borders you know through which foreign interests could enter not only our Coastal ports but the inland waterways the bloodstream of the country so uh I hope uh that the Trump Administration is looking at the Jones act and saying yeah this sounds a lot like the stuff that we campaigned on um it's a very common sense piece of legislation uh that has long enjoyed bipartisan by Camal support some of our biggest supporters over the years have been Republicans over here on the right and Democrats over here on the left um who can agree at a time of not agreeing on much else that this law is good for the country I hope that's how the new Administration and the new Congress will also see it very good thank you now Jennifer just so we can explain this to our audience who may or may not have our understanding of the Jones Act and the importance of the indust how would uh how would life look like if we did not have the Jones act uh in terms of our brown and blue water uh uh Mariners and maritime operations what would it look like how would we be different yeah you know the word that I'm going to use stas is borderless I mean just think about it for a minute we would literally have no Maritime border it would be 100% Horus um think about you know the fact that when you're flying between California and Washington DC you know you are flying on a US carrier those are American Pilots those are American flight attendance imagine if you had to rely for your flight on uh you know the uh the the possibility the likelihood that a foreign carrier a foreign company considered it in their interest more important than something else they might do to uh provide that service for you that is where we would be from a maritime perspective without the Jones act we would literally be dependent on foreign ship owners uh who could be controlled by Foreign governments um to enable us to move the Harvest from the Midwest down to the Gulf Coast to move energy supplies um between regions of our country uh to supply our fellow Americans in Puerto Rico in Hawaii in Alaska uh that's a scary place to be uh we've said things like this for a long time within the domestic Maritime industry and I think you know sometimes it sounded a little academic to people and the pandemic was a huge wakeup call I think for a lot of us oh empty shelves not being able to get what we need when we need it that's a thing that can really happen and we would be utterly exposed to that possibility uh if we did not have the Jones act and did not have uh this critical infrastructure in American hands and and during the pandemic as you just referenced we had uninterrupted Services while our International ports had difficulty sometimes getting product in and out of our ports in terms of the Jones act we were very well served weren't we that is 100% true St and in addition to the reliability of service domestic carriers keeping cargo moving continually between us ports uh we also saw very important uh stability in rates uh if you remember back you know to that dark time we saw in the international shipping industry tremendous flood fluctuation in rates just skyrocketing um we didn't have that in the domestic trade it was very steady so you know coming back to the election we I know there's lots of uh you know after action analysis going on what were the voters saying what were they asking for I don't think anybody is disagreeing that voters were asking for border security voters were asking for attention on inflation reduced prices hello I mean that's what the Jones act gives us price stability American control of our supply chain Maritime border security so Jennifer one of the issues that we had during the previous Trump presidency is we had a number of waivers of the Jones act now you and I talked about that subsequently and you explained that uh the waiver language is much tougher now than it was then how possible is it that we could see some more waivers start to show up uh because of the concern about government regulation and this somehow spilling over into the Jones act yeah you know I think Congress has been very clear on a bipartisan basis in two successive National Defense authorization acts in in 2020 and 2022 we do not want to see uh spurious unnecessary Jon act waivers uh you know there is a provision in law allowing for a Jon Zack waiver uh when necessary uh in the interest of the National Defense meaning to meet an immediate need with respect to military operations Congress clarified that they tightened that up they said oh no don't try to say everything falls under the rubric of National Defense what we mean is military operations they said no more blanket waivers if you know if someone wants a Jon waiver they need to come forward need to make the case um that there is a National Defense need for a vessel to move this cargo at this time and they need to do that publicly this needs to not be some dark of night who's really asking for this you know what uh shadowy hand is uh the Puppet Master here uh they need to come forward they need to put their name on a website and they need to let a little sunshine in that is hugely gratifying so I think all of that action by Congress is going to be really helpful in you know discouraging waivers that were always kind of opportunistic hey maybe we got a chance to make a few additional bucks by using a cheap foreign flag vessel not because it's necessary but like hey why not uh well here's why not because it's illegal um and you're GNA have to stand up and be counted and just kind of let that sit for a while um so really really good to see that action on the part of Congress thank you now Jennifer again for people that do not know could you give us just a an overview of the economic uh impact of the Jones act and how many jobs are impacted and where they are yeah so 650,000 American jobs uh are supported by the Jones act and those job stats uh go from coast to coast throughout the Heartland uh these are jobs where you know an a high school student a person uh separating from the military uh you know a hardworking drug-free individual um can come into the industry uh green you know without experience without having gone to a Maritime Academy or college or you know tons of debt or anything like that come in I want to work hard they can get trained on the job and within you know five seven years they're making a six figure income they've got great benefits they're supporting their family uh their kids can choose whether to go to col col or whether to uh work on a boat or whether to do uh whatever they want to um you can live where you want you know you get on a boat you're on the boat for a couple of weeks three weeks four weeks at a time uh you know if you want to live in the mountains of Colorado if you want to live in the desert of Arizona uh go for it you can do that so these are jobs that are not only economically uh compensatory uh but they're also jobs that offer a lot of opportunity for work life balance which I think is something that is really important um just to you know today's workers people are saying life is too short um you know to uh give it all to the office uh you know at the expense of my family my soul my whatever and you know Maritime yes there is dedication you are on that boat you are in that Shipyard you are working hard while you were there this is not easy work this is rewarding work um but this is you know this is tough work um and then you've got sustained time off when you can go do what you want so I think we've got a real opportunity I think we try hard and we do a decent job of telling the story of you know the ladders of Economic Opportunity that are provided in this industry I'm not sure we do a good enough job of pitching the work life balance benefits that are to me uh really important part of uh you know the maritime uh the maritime IND r value proposition um to employees of today okay now Jennifer this kind of dovetails into a question that I was going to ask you a little bit later but comes into it we're having a shortfall of mariners in the United States you and I have discussed this in the past and we have the same problem in the uh Tug and Barge industry as as we have in the ocean industry what is it that we can do do to get more young people interested in an industry which as you just explained uh May pay pretty well but it's tough work and it's not for the faint-hearted you know I think it starts with making sure that they know it's there and not assuming that they do and I think sometimes you know we fall into that trap um as an industry of not casting our net wide enough um this is a this is an all hands this needs to be public private sector uh you know the US government the military has a strong stake in making sure that there are people who want to go into the maritime industry whether they're building submarines for the Navy whether they are working on uh you know domestic or excuse me on commercial or military ships uh in a shipyard uh whatever kind of vessels they're sailing on so you know I worry less sometimes people say oh you know we're trying to recruit people to build submarines and Those ads are really cool are we potentially uh you know cannibalizing poaching the same pool of people we want to work in our industry I'm not super worried about that let's cast The Net wide to people who want to have a meaningful career uh that contributes to the security of the United States and make sure they know what the options are um I think there's a lot that we can do that we haven't fully tapped into and then I just want to add because I think it's so important and sometimes stas you know it can feel a little bit solving world hunger to say how are we going to go secure the pipeline you know the next generation of mariners that feels like a really big task that is kind of uh you know more than any one entity can solve um a very finite simple limited thing that we can do which will show respect which will support which will enable Mariners to move you know up their career path um and stay in the industry better is to overhaul of the Coast Guard's really Antiquated Mariner credentialing system again the the Antiquated credentialing system is not the reason young people don't know about our industry but sometimes it is a reason you know that a person on their fifth issue says forget about it you know this is crazy I cannot be uh you know waiting forever to find out whether my you know medical waiver got looked at we can do so much better by Mariners and I think we are increasingly seeing a recognition that we need to so you know in the scheme of government problems to solve like this one is not that hard we need to allocate a small amount of money you know we need a focused uh you know focused Coast Guard Le effort to do that industry input and we can make a big positive difference that would be that would be a great thing to see as a uh you know goal that could be accomplished in the next four years very good uh this week uh Jennifer a bipartisan bamal group of lawmakers introduced legislation a aimed at strengthening the American ship building and Commercial Maritime Industries following uh what they characterized as a Decades of neglect and the bill in question uh is called the ship building and harbor infrastructure for prosperity and security for America Act and it's supported by Senators Mark Kelly of Arizona Todd young of Indiana as well as John gendy from California and Trent Kelly of Mississippi uh representative Mike Walsh who's been tapped by the Trump Administration to be National Security advisor has also expressed support for the bill what impact will the bill have if it passes uh in terms of helping us to rebuild uh the American Maritime industry yeah I I think I just cannot give enough credit um to this bipartisan by Camal group of lawmakers from literally throughout the country I mean just think of that Arizona Mississippi California Indiana you know that just goes to show uh you know uh where this industry touches um for their leadership in introducing the ships act this is huge um you know it really Builds on the foundation of the Jones act the Jones Act deals with the domestic Maritime industry as we know and uh you know I think the jonzac fleet is going strong uh we need to continue to renew the fleet we need to continue to attract Mariners we need to avoid spous waivers um we need to do you know we need to keep on keeping on when we come to the international Fleet you know that's where we've had um us vessels at a unmanageable competitive disadvantage um to you know Chinese subsidized uh ships uh other foreign actors who massively subsidized their Maritime Industries and it is not good for us National Security Homeland Security uh to have uh such a relatively small US flag presence in the international uh Maritime industry and so I think what these lawmakers have done is long overdue they've said we've got we've got to make investments we've got to take a comprehensive approach um it's going to take time it's going to have to be gradual but the path that we are on um you know is not sustainable when it comes to the international Fleet and we as a nation need to do something about it that is huge um and I think that you know introducing this very comprehensive bill is is really smart because it just shows you know there is a coherent Vision they're thinking about everything and then as we move into a new Congress I think it's going to be really important uh to to be creative and look for opportunities ah you know here's a tax bill moving there are tax provision ISS of that legislation is there an opportunity for some of these things to get done there H there's a maritime Administration authorization bill there's a coast guard authorization bill that could be a vehicle for some of these Provisions so I think that that comprehensive Vision which is uh so really positive um and then being legislatively Nimble and seizing opportunities um to get pieces of this done with the idea that you know we get a couple of years down the road and and you know it may have taken place in uh a series of legislative steps but then we'll be able to look back and say wow you know we got a lot of this done and uh you know we're we're we're on our way to getting some much needed things done for American Security Jennifer this is going to require government spending to invest in shipyards and ship building based on the resistance that we have seen this week to government spending do you think that the uh consensus is there to seriously invest in ship building in the maritime industry I think we have to make a strong impassioned case that American Security is worth investing in you know I mean we've got to support our National Defense and Maritime is a critical support for our National Defense we need to do that in a Smart Way 100% but we need need to make investments and just like in a business you know you don't just say I'm going to cut costs but I'm not going to make any Investments so that you're not going to sell your product or service you're not going to be anywhere uh the same is true for government you know we absolutely need to minimize wasteful spending unnecessary spending things that the private sector could do better um but uh US National Security um is something that absolutely needs investment and I will add you know that uh the maritime industry is very much a force multiplier uh so we're not saying we need a 2,000 ship Navy or something like that which would cost a a gajillion dollars uh you know we're saying we need a sufficiently sized demestic and international US flag industry that supports that is a force multiplier that our military can rely on so it's really I think a very cost effective approach to enhancing American Amer security and I think that piece sometimes gets lost it's like what would happen if we didn't have any US flag commercial vessels well geez I see two options and I don't like either of them either we'd have to build all government vessels to do that now now you're spending money um or we'd have to rely on foreign powers to come to our rescue I don't like that anymore you know I don't like that any better and I I don't think most lawmakers do either uh Jennifer Secretary of the the Navy Carlos Del Toro worked very hard to develop uh alliances with some of our allies South Korea uh and Japan particularly to create uh Partnerships in uh US ship building so that we could uh incorporate best Global practices from both of those countries uh Taiwan also has uh a a modest but significant ship building industry as you know uh hanwa acquired the Philly Shipyard uh this year do you see and and another issue which is is is kind of on the radar screen is nipon steel was attempting to acquire us steel which could have upgraded steel manufacturing in the US particularly steel plate which we are going to need for ship building and my question to you is should we be encouraging collaborations with our allies who have ship building capabilities to bring that uh source of uh quality and investment into the uh ship building industry in the United States yes I think there is a lot of opportunity there and you know I give secretary Del Toro a lot of credit for uh you know really focusing attention on the importance of ship building and maritime now I think I want to be clear we need to build those ships here right I mean let's think about what's happened in South Korea over the last two weeks they are a great us Ally um we have seen some uh you know political uncertainty here that's just a small reminder uh you know Taiwan is uh right next door uh you know to the Chinese Mainland uh so absolutely we need closer collaboration with our allies we need to learn we need to apply best practices where there are barriers you know to sharing information technology ways that can enable us to strengthen the American ship building industry the American Maritime industry we should look to to break down those barriers um but we want to be building vessels here in the United States with American workers drawing on you know Global best practices very good thank you uh let's uh switch gears here um can you discuss how the new word of Bill uh will uh impact Waterway operators yes and this is a good news story it's uh nice to be able to uh end the uh 118th Congress saying here's something that got done that was really positive and I I want to give our partners at waterways Council Inc a ton of credit for this um one of the really important changes that uh is Incorporated in that legislation would change the cost share for construction and major Rehabilitation projects for inland waterways um locks and dams uh to 75% uh General treasury 25% from the inland waterways trust fund and what this will do is this will unlock an additional $1.4 billion dollar over the next 10 years for badly needed inland waterways infrastructure upgrades that is so important to you know just keeping our marine highways operational to keep uh American exporters farmers competitive against foreign producers um so really really positive there are some other positive changes in there um which uh aim to make sure that the core of engineers can nimbly uh move equipment around uh to proactively dredge as we Face low water situations on the river um so some really good stuff in there and uh I want to uh really commend uh the B partisan work of Congress to get that done uh Jennifer what was the previous cost share ratio uh 6535 and just a few years ago it was actually 5050 so you know stas it's a little bit like Jones Z waivers where Congress is like wait a minute we think we see an opportunity for an improvement we're gonna we're gonna continue to work on this in a kind of iterative way um till we think we've got it where we want it so uh very very positive to see that change from 5050 50 to 6535 and now to 7525 Federal trust fund it's a it's a real public private partnership that works now the as I recall the shortfall a couple of years ago was there was about2 billion uh worth of projects that still needed to be modernized uh you referenced a figure there of 1.4 I believe so are we getting close to getting complete on getting us back to where we should have been several years ago in terms of upgrading these locks and dams well it's going to help a lot because unfortunately you know one of the things we've seen with inland waterways projects uh is the same thing we've seen elsewhere in the economy that's inflation um you know we also have a government funding model where it can be difficult um to uh you know construct projects in the most efficient way possible because money is being doled out in bits and pieces over a period of time so uh you know we need more than we thought we did a few years ago because inflation has made uh the total higher but it's really positive to see a strong bipartisan commitment to making those Investments I'm coming back to that word investment um because that's really what uh you know what this spending is okay um Jennifer could you talk about the low water issues that we had especially on the Upper Mississippi this year yeah so uh you know I will uh I will I will start with something positive which is this um we have come a long way as an industry the core of engineers the US Coast Guard in our communication over the last three years so even as we have dealt with some pretty significant low water challenges in 2022 in 2023 in 2024 we have gotten better and better at how we communicate and how we work together to keep the waterways open for business um that has been really positive vessel operators are being smart about hey when do I need to reduce my draft because River conditions require it where do I have some some Running Room some good water and I can move more product um the Coast Guard is working to make sure that they're setting buoys the core is doing more proactive dredging so conditions have been challenging but uh the uh disruption has been uh not as bad uh this year nor last year as it was uh back in uh 2022 because we're getting better at working together and what I like about that is you know we're focusing on what we can control we can't control the weather um but we can control how we plan plan for it and what we do about it um so uh really appreciate the good cooperation from the coast guard on the core there very good and segu into the issue of the weather the propeller Club of Northern California held a sea level defense conference in November and we several California ports were participating and we heard from Noah about concerns that they have in the aftermath of the Hurricanes that occurred towards the end of the year that they are being attacked for providing weather information and uh those uh attacks have focused on whether the data has been manipulated and the fact that maybe Noah needs to be cut back or maybe even eliminated and this is occurring as we're starting to see some dramatic increases in sea level rises along our Coast especially our southern coast my question to you is Noah is Noah important to ensure competent and upto-date weather and navigational data for American Mariners in a word yes yes it is and you know uh coming back to our previous conversation about smart government spending absolutely nobody wants to see you know waste Fraud and Abuse let's definitely look at how we're doing things and you know frankly sometimes government lags the private sector we know that um in uh operating efficiently I mentioned the Coast Guard's Antiquated credentialing system that's you know exhibit a okay this could be way better this needs to be way better this is not cutting edge technology this is like let's let's get ourselves into 2025 and not you know 1997 um and so by all means let's look for opportunities to do things smarter um but uh agencies like Noah uh like the Coast Guard like the core of engineers these these are all part of you know the resources that enable us to keep Commerce moving in the United States there's a reason Noah exists in the Department of Commerce um you know because this is not like nice to have this is you know fuzzy climate whatever it's like this is a foundational uh you know uh a precondition for uh safe and efficient Maritime Commerce and we heard from uh one of our weather forecasting uh uh Partners at the propeller club that they find that uh developing uh uh routs for ships is getting more challenging with the weather and that they need as much data as possible and know is where we get our data information right absolutely absolutely and you know then you've got private sector providers um you know who are coming up with electronic chart interfaces and things like that which can enable Mariners to uh utilize that information that much more efficiently but uh absolutely this is a valuable service that is provided that will continue to be valuable and needed thank you Jennifer I want to switch over to the issue of offshore wind which you have discussed as a job and economic generator uh for the uh American waterways operators and it is a target for uh cutbacks and elimination uh uh ing to statements made by people who are part of the incoming Administration my question to you is should the maritime industry urge more support in Congress and with Republicans uh for offshore wind as you yourself have emphasized uh that namely offshore wind has the potential to create new US Maritime jobs and jonzac jobs it absolutely does and I think it's important to sort of back up and say what we have seen is a massive increase in the need for energy in this country right we're producing more energy than we ever have before but we need more when you look at uh the energy uh generation needs um from AI from data centers I mean it's just massive so we need all of the above and we've got a huge opportunity Unity to supplement existing energy sources um with new energy sources uh offshore wind being one of them and to do that in a way that is really good for the American worker that is good for the American manufacturing base I recently co-authored a piece uh with Anne Reynolds of American clean power and one of the things we pointed out was the distribution of investment in the jobs um to uh produce vessels for this new offshore wind Market throughout the United States sometimes people hear offshore wind and they think you know New England or midatlantic or I think there's going to be something in the Gulf of Maine or they're going to get to that in California but you know where are those vessels being built well they're being built in Louisiana they're being built in Mississippi they're being built in Pennsylvania they're being built in Wisconsin where's that steel coming from it's coming from West Virginia you know where are these workers man there are throughout the United States so there is just a lot of opportunity here so I would just hate to see us uh kind of get into sort of a binary you know do we need uh do we need uh you know uh petroleum do we need offshore wind do we need solar do we need smallscale nuclear yes we do you know and let's generate all of that safely in the most environmentally responsible way possible and let's make sure those are American jobs uh just as a reference point uh I spoke to the Port of Long Beach a couple of months ago and they are looking at building an offshore windport at the Port of Long Beach and creating an offshore windport I've gotta imagine just as on the east coast is going to create a lot of Mariner jobs right lots of opportunity there lots of opportunity there I will say one thing we do need to be very attentive to as we uh you know just do more in the oceans whether that's launching Rockets or building offshore wind farms we do need to keep our brains on Maritime safety um and that I think makes it just really important that the Coast Guard um be very proactive in interfacing not only with the private sector but with other federal agencies Bureau of offshore Energy Management states to make sure that you know we can all peacefully coexist we've got navigation safety Fairways we've got wind farms in places where it's safe to have wind farms you know we're doing this in an orderly in an orderly way and I think that's that's an area where we have seen some progress um you know over the last few years it's just recognizing we don't want to get behind that ball we need to be in front of it um and not uh you know setting ourselves up for failure we need to be setting ourselves up for Success well just as a uh to complement what you said the projection on the west coast for California is that they will need 12 new Oceano tugboats to pull floating offshore wind turbines into place and I can't imagine how many uh offshore Supply vessels they're going to need to do maintenance and repair I mean this could be thousands of jobs right absolutely absolutely and you know the the domestic Maritime industry we are in the business of you know solving transportation and Logistics challenges for our customers you know whether uh sort of no matter what the trade no matter what the cargo uh so uh really encourage uh you know win developers uh to see our industry as a partner and a resource um in uh you know building out and helping to take advantage of the opportunities here great now you referenced the Coast Guard and I am referencing a marine link interview that you did earlier this year and I am quoting you here uh there is a need on the regulatory side for some clarification on a couple of issues including engine room crewing on atbs with automated system systems this is an issue that Congress thought it addressed in the last Coast Guard authorization Bill the last National Defense authorization act unfortunately the Coast Guard hasn't implemented it yet it shouldn't come to this but Congress may need to tell them again we told you to do this please this time get it done how is the Coast Guard doing in that regard uh we still need legislation as you may or may not have uh have heard uh the Coast Guard authorization Bill did not make it onto the uh defense authorization bill so we're not going to have a coast guard authorization bill this Congress Congress is going to have to pick that back up after the first of the year and get the process moving again and we are very hopeful that this is a piece of unfinished business that will be addressed there because the Crux of the issue is uh vessel owners are making investments in advanced engine room technology which allows for uh engine rooms that are not continuously crude you know that are monitored um taking advantage of the uh safety and efficiency benefit benefits provided by this advanced technology uh Congress included a provision in the 2022 co- guard authorization act to be explicit um on how crew levels could be adjusted when these automated systems are uh are installed and the Coast Guard essentially came back and said this isn't this isn't worded right we can't do this um and so Congress was working right down till the 11th Hour when the ndaa train left the station to see if they could address that in the Coast Guard authorization Bill uh Coast Guard Bill didn't move so this is a piece of unfinished business we will be pressing um very hard to get that done in the next Congress um you know uh articulated tug barge units have an extremely good safety record um over a period of decades and you know this is a real opportunity to do something that I think you know we have heard the incoming Administration talk about which is let's reduce unnecessary regulatory burdens that get in the way of progress and efficiency hello Doge you know this is one of those let's get out of our own way and make sure that uh vessel owners who have made these significant investments in advanced technology um can realize the full benefits of those systems we're not talking about replacing people there is a lot of role for people and a lot of Need for people but we can do things more efficiently and uh you know we'd like to see the Coast Guard recognize that as they did a few years ago and we'd like to see legislation to uh just make this explicit um in the next Coast Guard off Bill Jennifer is there an Institutional reluctance within the Coast Guard to move on this uh sta I'm a little confused on this issue the Coast Guard was for it before before they were against it quite candidly um you know a few years back the Coast Guard went to the National Towing safety advisory committee and gave them a task to say help us figure out you know what the conditions are under which uh you know engine room crewing could be adjusted based on the utilization of advanced systems and tsac worked on that and we had coard Admirals at headquarters saying yes this is great we want to do it and then there were a few lawyers who kind of threw a flag on the play and said uh wait we can't do that we need we need uh some statutory change to enable us to do that so we dutifully went to Congress and got legislation passed and they said oops not that rock we can't do it um it's been frustrating we would like to uh you know work hard with the Coast Guard and with Congress to get this problem solved next year this is not a you know safety versus efficiency tradeoff this is a both and and it really it really needs to get done very good uh now you have been very very clear about your concerns about sexual harassment and sexual assault and uh the issue of sexual assault and harassment uh uh response is really important uh you said for both Mariner safety and Mariner uh mental health and wellbeing uh We've Got A continuing need to make sure that our members have the resources they need need to build and maintain the kind of workplace cultures that are needed in this industry we also need to make sure that the Coast Guard is clearly and practically implementing the safe safer Seas act that was enacted at the end of the last Congress there are several areas with respect to surveillance cameras for larger offshore vessels and master key Control Systems where existing guidance is not clear at best and is problematic at worst there is a need for some clarity here what needs to happen to get this problem solved yeah well let me let me start by just reiterating the foundational importance of culture you know culture change of really thoroughgoing work by companies to instill uh cultures of respect and safety and inclusiveness for all Mariners no matter their gender no matter their race no matter their religion who you know no matter what um we want to attract retain the best people to work in this industry we tout ourselves having great work life balance opportunities you know it's just foundational you need to be able to go on a boat and feel like you're going to be safe and respected and I know that awo members and and companies throughout the industry are working really hard on that that so I want to emphasize that that is just that's like a thing you can never stop doing you can never be done and if You Were Somehow perfect at it today you'd have to you know keep working to get better tomorrow because anything involving people it's just Dynamic so I want I want to emphasize that with regard to the Coast Guard policies we have seen some improvement and some clarification on a couple of those policies that you mentioned and I want to thank the coast guard for that on video surveillance uh they have clarified that with respect to record retention you don't need to maintain you know terabytes of data uh where uh you know there's an empty hallway with no one in it and no one saying anything but you are storing this for years and years what is the point of that you need to store uh you know uh data that could be used uh in the event of an incident to figure out what what went on so it took a little doing but the Coast Guard has clarified that similar on master key control uh there were a lot of questions um what if I I don't have you know a uh sort of uh keyed lock system on my small boat the way you do in say a hotel and you know the housekeeper has a master key that they scan and come we don't have something like that so are you saying I need to put one in no the Coast Guard is said that's that's not what we're saying we're saying if you have a key system and somebody has a master key that can get into any room you need to have a way to to laog who has that so if we ever need to go back and say what happened here it's it is uh you know it is clear um so there have been some policy clarifications which are helpful um I will say in the spirit of continuous Improvement that I think there is a lot of opportunity um to to get better at this you know the the safer Seas Act was passed two years ago and uh you know we haven't seen a proposed rule on this if there had been an effort to start a rul making process you you know which has all kinds of opportunities for stakeholder participation I think we would not only be further down the road to clear implementable uh guidance and standards but we would have avoided some of the fits and starts it wouldn't have been like uh the coast guard takes its stab at policy without industry input and then industry comes back and says Ah you forgot this because they would have got the feedback on the front end so I want to give credit where credit is due but I also want to sort of challenge um continued uh effort to engage stakeholders earlier in the process and make sure that the rul making process works efficiently and do we expect to see a rule anytime soon we expect to see a rule but we don't expect to see it anytime soon I think is the just straightforward non-nonsense answer to your question we haven't seen a proposed rule yet so it's going to be a while before we see a rule which means For Better or For Worse we're going to be operating off of policy guidance and Jennifer the Coast Guard is having its own internal problems about sexual harassment too and I'm referencing the foul anchor uh uh report that seems to not have been clearly understood or at least clearly implemented yes yes and I think Congress is you know is looking into that uh you know very very hard um and I will just say that you know I think the a couple points here you know um preventing and responding effectively to sexual assault sexual harassment that is a it's a shared challenge right nobody's nobody's immune from that everybody the maritime industry needs to be focused on making sure its house is squeaky clean there and the Coast Guard does too and I think you know part of the intersection between that issue the coast guards dealing with its own internal issues and uh you know implementation of the safer Seas act as it applies to the amican time industry is I would hope that Congress would be sort of judicious in terms of what they are asking the Coast Guard to do so the Coast Guard has a lot of work to do on itself and I think they would admit they would acknowledge that um and they have you know a pretty significant uh list of things that they need to do with respect to video surveillance and master key control and safety management system provision and responding to sexual assault and sexual harassment reporting um you know there are some areas where uh the safer Seas act could be tightened up so that we're not asking the Coast Guard to do as many things but we're giving them the opportunity to do what they do well for example um you know there is a uh a sort of hanging chat of a term um harassment in the safer Seas act referring to harassment other than sexual assault and sexual harassment um and uh there is no specificity around uh sort of how this gets reported to the Coast Guard um only that harassment in violation of company policy or law needs to get reported um From industry's perspective uh this significantly adds to the Coast Guard's workload without giving them any new tools to deal with and really is unne necessary and unhelpful in light of the existing EEOC enforced regime that is already there companies have policies and procedures um they are overseen by the EEOC uh inserting a requirement to report to the Coast Guard uh really does not add a lot from a mariner protection benefit it increases the Coast Guard's workload and not to get too wonky um could actually comp complicate timely company response um to an incident while they're waiting to see what the Coast Guard is going to do so that is another issue that we hope that Congress will uh you know just take a close look at uh with an eye toward fine-tuning uh the very well-intentioned and important uh legislation that is the safeer Seas act very good Jennifer the uh last question relates to the vessel incidental discharge act and I have you quoted is saying EPA is duee to finalize its regulations implementing that statute uh later this year which 2024 setting standards for ballast water and other vessel discharge the Coast Guard will then need to pick up the Baton and produce its regulations implementing the EPA standards uh where are we on that so EPA did its work they published their rule from aw's perspective they did a very good job uh they uh grappled with industry comments they implemented the law and now the ball is in the Coast Guard's court so we would very much hope and now by the way all of this is happening several years later than Congress said that it should Under The Vessel incidental discharge act so we need to keep moving forward here and uh we're going to be pushing hard as the new Administration takes office uh to keep this progress moving um you know this this uh law this rule that EPA has produced is absolutely something that should should stay uh it was put in place by you know it was required by Congress as an effort to come up with a practical effective alternative to the previously existing Patchwork of state-by-state requirements which was good for nobody not good for the industry not good for the environment so this is a government efficiency uh approach um that is also environmentally protective win-win thank you EPA um now it is time for the Coast Guard to publish its regulations saying how how do vessel owners meet these standards that EPA has established and I think there's a lot of opportunity there for the Coast Guard to apply its expertise um you know with respect to vessel operations expertise that you know I think EPA would freely admit that that's not really their Lane um and so we see some opportunities for the Coast Guard to make efficiency improvements to the current system as they Implement those standards and and we're excited about that and so we hope that as the new Administration comes in you know there's a tendency as new administrations come in to kind of cast a little bit of a jaundice ey on what their predecessor did um you know this is a rulemaking with a lot of history it's been worked on by a republican Administration it was carried forward under a democratic Administration now we're back to a republican Administration this is just good it needs to keep moving forward and uh we're hopeful that that'll happen expeditiously Jennifer as always it is H an education and an experience uh to be with you and and to hear what progress you clearly been making at awo and uh uh also with am now and I want to thank you very much for your time uh wish you and your family and your organization the best for the holiday and hopefully a successful 2025 thank you very much for being with us and uh we wish you the best for the new year do thank you very much and right back at you happy holidays all the best for the new year thanks for having me thank you