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Cis invoice example for Hospitality

vat registered and working in the construction industry will watch on as a business accountant my team and i spent all day long helping business owners on their journey and there are some massive changes coming from the 1st of march in the construction industry where v80 is concerned now these changes have actually tried to be brought in twice i think going back to october 2019 was the first time we were going to see it in fact we recorded a youtube video of me looking slightly more chubby than i do now talking about all these kind of things i found it actually when we were looking at what we were going to do now for this video and it's been delayed twice through various different things firstly they didn't communicate very well people didn't know it's coming then you know brexit coronavirus all the rest of it but unfortunately there is no more announced delays as i'm recording this video so it's coming and you need to know what to do now what i want to do in this video is i'm going to try and give you a very short summary of the general way that it's going to work and because for example we've done a blog that we'll link in the in the in the comments below and basically that blog gives you a bit more of a detail about what's happening um in in more detail terms but actually for a lot of you you're just gonna need to know the top level stuff so that's the aim of this is to talk about top level in general where you're going to see it the most that kind of situation so before i get into that if you like these type of videos click the subscribe button below so you get notified whenever we release another one just like it so what's happening well they call it the domestic reverse charge and the idea is that they're losing v80 out of the chain somewhere so if you imagine somebody who's a v80 registered subcontractor who's charging their contractor up the chain they're getting paid vat money for that and then they're just disappearing they'll get out of business whatever that's costing a lot of money vat fraud is is big business and so they're looking to kind of reduce that and the way they're doing that is they're going to say right okay in certain circumstances subcontractor down here do not charge the v80 up the chain you know don't do it so you they're not going to get the v8 money anymore that they should hand over and that should stop that problem so this that's where it's kind of coming from now in simple terms where it's going to apply is if you're cis and vat registered so you're in the construction industry let's say you normally get cis deductions from this person you're about to invoice um you might be what they call growth status if you are you know what that means but you you'd still normally have cis deductions if that wasn't the case and your contractor here or the person you're invoicing normally would at least consider taking cis off of you and they're cis registered in v8 so it's very normal if you're a subcontractor and you've got like another contractor up the chain that you work for then in that situation this new rule is going to apply and all that's going to happen is you're not going to charge any v80 on your invoice you're going to do what they call the reverse charge and all that really means is in your software presuming you've got accounting software you're going to put in a special code that we set up in there and i'll link again the guidance in the in the comments so that you can see whereabouts you can find out how to do that if you've not got a bookkeeper or accountant but if you've got those people they'll know what to do and it'll just put zero vat on your invoice but it will make some changes inside the software that just means that all the relevant boxes and everything gets sorted out and that's it it just doesn't have any v80 on the invoice now if you're a contractor receiving those invoices again you should expect not to have v80 charged and this is quite important because if you do receive invoices with v80 on there's the potential that the vat man can come to you and say well you shouldn't have paid that v8 and we're not going to allow you to reclaim it so really keep an eye on that and you'd already see if you've already been working as we're recording this now in february there's a lot of the big boys who have already sent letters out to their subcontractors saying look we expect that you these rules are going to apply to your invoices so you might have already got a lead from from that at the moment and if you do get those invoices as a contractor again your bookkeeper or you when you input them into your bookkeeping system you're going to have a special code and that's going to sort out the vat treatment in the boxes you're not going to be worse off in terms of actual there's no cost involved from a is all tax neutral it's just on a cash and we'll talk about it in a minute on a cash flow basis if you imagine as a subcontractor you're not getting this extra vat money at the moment to enjoy for a little period until you have to hand it over which can cause potentially an issue but as a contractor you're probably on the opposite side of the spectrum and you might actually have a bit more cash because you don't have to part without extra vat money every time you pay an invoice so that's where it's normally going to apply so if you just think vat registered in cis subcontractor cis and v80 registered contractor and one's billing the other one it's normally going to apply now if you are vat registered and work for joe public then there's nothing changing you charge your normal v18 and in actual fact if you do mixed works so you do some in that subcontractor contractor scenario and somewhere you go into people's houses where you just apply them on the relevant invoices so you know you'll you'll use this domestic reverse charge for your contractor um but for you know the person's house you've just done uh it's the normal v80 rules apply so you can do either or and if you are doing these reverse charging voices to your contractor that's labor and materials so that's the general situation that's when it's going to happen and what i've done is i've linked to flowchart below in the comments that will just take you through that of when you apply it it's very simple it's about five boxes of does this apply does this apply does this apply and in all these circumstances when this applies then you're not going to charge v80 on your invoice but as i said in summary that's the easiest way to think about the situation now digging in a little bit then in terms of does it cost me any money so no as a contractor you're getting you're not actually paying any vat so you're not physically partnered with any money and the way it works actually in behind the scenes on your vat return is it counts as you charging yourself v80 it's a really weird mechanism and it actually exists for some things in europe that we used to use it they have this reverse charge thing but so actually what software does in a couple of places is puts it charges it to you and then reclaims it all on the same vat return so you're not actually costing you any money and there's obviously as a subcontractor it's not costing any money because you just you're billing them but it's from a contractor no it doesn't cost you any money and what is the bigger issue is this cash flow thing so we mentioned if you're the subcontractor you're normally used to billing people and receiving all this vat money you might use some of that vat money to pay for some materials and do some stuff and then um you know build your pot money back up so you can pay over the vat each quarter now you're not going to be able to do that and the reason is is because they're not going to pay you any vat because your invoices aren't going to have any v80 on them now if that's the case if you imagine let's say you only work for those type of businesses you've got no vat coming in so there's going to be nothing to hand over each quarter to the revenue um but you are still paying v80 on all your materials and things like that so you're actually going to be in a situation where the vat people are going to owe you money now that's fine you're going to get it back every quarter but obviously you have to wait a quarter to get it back one of the options you have and it's worth considering and talking to your accountant about if you have an accountant or if you do it yourself there are ways of doing this is you can switch to monthly vat returns the issue with that is are you good enough with your paperwork to make that work and also if you've got an accountant there's likely to be more costs to do that but if you think that's a benefit then that is one option and then you can get those vat repayments back every month and you know we've got developers and people like that that do that as an absolute norm so there is definitely a cash flow advantage to doing that but do think about the practicals because you know if you're not very good with your receipts doing it monthly is going to be an issue so let's get you a bit of an action list to help you on and get you prepared for this so point the first thing to do is look at your customers and your clients and just see are any of these going to be cis registered and vat registered and if they are then the charge is likely to apply now you're probably already aware of that for the majority of your contracts that you've already got but if not it's worth getting in contact with them now as i mentioned earlier a lot of the bigger players have already probably sent letters to you telling you they consider themselves not not an end user and the reason that's important is people like the public end users and the charge wouldn't apply most contractors are probably just coming out and telling you this now but if you're not sure do check with them and you really want to know are they vat are they cis registered if you deal with the public the best thing to do if you've got any terms and conditions or anything like that is put a little statement in there that says that you consider them an end user unless they tell you otherwise and then it just puts the owners back on them to tell you but obviously there's not a lot of chance that they're going to be anything other than an end user but it's good just to have that covered off then the other practical point is to make sure your accounting software can handle it so i mean if you're still invoicing off of a word document or an excel thing you just uh you know update you then fine you're just not going to put any vat on there and you're going to put a statement on there somewhere that says you know it's subject to the domestic reverse charge if you've got software you want to make sure you've got all the right boxes turned on and again in that blog below i'll link some of the more common ones for xero and quickbooks i mean at the time record in the video quickbooks hasn't yet released their codes and it's very very tight to the deadline but xero has and i will update the video as that as that goes on so you'll be able to update your software and then you're ready to go really on that sense you can now invoice correctly and get that sorted or if the other way around if you're receiving invoices from this new domestic reverse charge with novat on you'll have the right codes to input that into your bookkeeping system and it makes sure it appears in the right boxes on your vat return now as a final point if you're on flat rate v80 so you use that flat rate vat scheme where you just apply a percentage to all the money coming in you need to speak to your accountant about it because there is an issue with that so i don't want to go too much deep into the video with that but definitely about something as an action point to sort out asap and that is a real top level look at it as i say it's slightly more complex than this but i think for the majority of people this is all the information that you need to know on it and if you've got any questions drop in the comments below and i'll answer as many as i can that's it for now if you know somebody that needs to know this information please do share it with them and i'll see in the next one