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Coaching bill format for organizations

welcome to the fast leader podcast where we uncover the leadership life hacks that help you to experience breakout performance faster and rocket to success and now here's your host customer and employee engagement expert and certified emotional intelligence practitioner jim grimbach call center coach develops and unites the next generation of call center leaders through our e-learning and community individuals gain knowledge and skills in the six core competencies that is the blueprint that develops high-performing call center leaders successful supervisors do not just happen so go to call center coach.com to learn more about enrollment and download your copy of the supervisor success path ebook now okay fast leader legion today i'm excited because we're going to have somebody on the show today who is going to make you feel uncomfortable and you know what it's a good thing bill eckstrom was born in omaha nebraska but calls valley nebraska home where he moved in his early teens and had a high school graduating class of 55 students as a self-proclaimed terrible student bill would have been labeled behaviorally disordered by today's standards he was kicked out of school in the seventh grade with a recommendation from the principal that he be expelled from the entire district had it not been for two amazingly tolerant parents and a couple of athletic coaches bill would likely have taken a much different path one far more self-destructive he grew up with two brothers and spent most of his young life on a field with a ball or in a field with his oldest brother pursuing wild game bill began his professional career in 100 commission insurance sales going against his father's advice that it was the most prudent job to get and be with a big company instead which he believed offered the most secure future ironically when bill did pursue that path later in his career he learned quickly that today's world was not the same as his father had experienced bill was fired from his job as senior vice president of business development for a publicly traded company that significant life-altering event however was the catalyst to bill's future achievements now bill is the founder and ceo of the excel institute the world's first and only organization to measure and quantify leadership effectiveness his company works in a variety of settings helping coaches leaders in the world of business athletics and education bill along with his co-author sarah wirth are the authors of the best-selling book the coaching effect the book focuses on what great leaders do to behave more like a high growth coach and lead teams that produce and perform at much higher levels the book's body of work is based on bill's company's research which measured over hundred thousand coaching interactions in the workplace in his spare time bill is involved with therapy dog work he and his labrador aspen work together at senior living homes children's hospitals colleges athletic teams and anywhere the presence of aspen's wagging tail and a soft soul can bring a smile bill and his wonderful wife have been married for 35 years and live in lincoln nebraska they have three children ages 23 29 and 31 spread all across the country living in new york city fort collins colorado and hawaii the only benefit of having them so far away is that they live in beautiful places to visit bill eckstrom are you ready to help us get over the hump jim i will do my best and thank you for having me today well i'm glad you're here now i've given my legion a little bit about you but can you share what your current passion is so that we can get to know you even better my current passion is uh working with young men and women um that's always been a passion that that continues and right now it's really adapting a lot of what we do from business to athletics and education so spending a lot of time expanding uh our footprint that way well you know and as you say that i know i had the opportunity of reviewing your ted talk and we'll put a link to that on your show notes page at fastleader.net bill extreme so people can get you know a greater understanding of you know how you get to that point because quite frankly how you do it is quite unorthodox and it's had some significant impact but in the book you know before we get into the the depth of our discussion i think it's important that in essential that we establish the difference between you know a manager a trainer a mentor and a coach so if you could help us understand the very important distinctions between these roles um sure and that's really a good question jim they let's start with manager the the most commonly used term and and i'll even throw meter in coming up by the leader to that mix as well uh but manager as we say in the book the coaching effect it's a very archaic term the scientists study of management really came about in the industrial era in our country and managers were known for doing you know having predictable inputs and driving predictable outcomes and as you learn from the ted talk and and how you and i were discussing before the program began growth only occurs in the state of discomfort that's not what management's about management's about driving predictability and that's what creates comfort so it's the antithesis so managers have nothing to do with motivation when we use that they have nothing to do with discretionary effort and when we use that term manager people without even knowing it are asking people to limit performance of teams that that's that's by nature that's what that role is involved is supposed to do well the unfortunate side of that is when you start talking about in today's world and the changing and the evolution and you know it is no longer you know a production where i'm putting widgets together down a line very well said that that's exactly right yeah yeah it's it's now we're asking people to do things that they've never been developed for and that's really what the book is is all about but to put things in proper context around the customer and the employee experience what is the difference in high performance coaching and coaching environments and coaching practices mean versus just the average um when we so so we spent a lot of time trying to figure that out as well by the way and so what we were able to do with our research is we were able to go across many many hundreds of companies throughout the world and it's really easy to focus on um as a baseline your research sales departments because they measure everything right and there's always numbers attached to to highs and lows and everywhere in between and so what we were able to do is we took the top 20 percent of um meters within sales departments and across all different companies um and so we were able to normalize that and then we went back because we had so much data and research on all of them we were able to go back and research what they did well what they did differently so we separate the top 20 percent versus the bottom 80. now we could talk about perhaps elite the top three to five percent but there wasn't a huge difference within the top 20 and here's what's really kind of interesting jim between the top 20 and bottom 80 the gap is relatively small meaning that the top 20 percent does 28 what we call more of the high growth coaching activities they coach with 17 percent better quality those aren't huge separations they're statistically significant but they're not huge and really what we're what we're seeing is the difference between the top 20 which is what we'll refer to as great and everyone else is not that big but what it takes to close that gap is really significant because it involves a lot of behavior change so then now to answer that question specifically so what the top 20 percent are doing they do more coaching and we measure that they do it better better quality we measure that the result is lower turnover higher discretionary effort when we compare with engagement results engagement increases so the results are really quite frankly astronomical and and in terms of dollar and cents if i need a team of sales people if i'm a top 20 percenter my team averages 4.3 million dollars more revenue well as you're saying that you know you talk about all this measurement i mean the same thing happens in a contact center environment where i spend most of my days measured like you wouldn't believe and for me when you start talking about those differences and those gaps i mean when you start getting even in some of the larger organizations a one in two percent difference that is massive um when you start getting into into ten that is monumental and unfortunately what happens is from a grand juror and a marketing perspective you know whether they're coaches or whether they're software companies whatever they'll say a 97 percent increase and you know all that kind of stuff and it becomes you know a situation where people have significant doubt so i i'm for me your transparency and your discussion about that you know to me first of all i appreciate um it is more realistic but it is still yet quite significant it it oh it is because and here's here's what's interesting when we so we could share all this right and in the book we talk about this people know this we explain it to them if you do these activities okay if you do them with greater consistency greater frequency your teams will produce and they'll grow at a faster rate but yet 40 percent of the people won't change habits or behaviors even even you can statistically show them just listen over time i'm telling you it works but no you know the my old way is the way i do it well and that's where you know the book goes into a lot of the different you know frameworks and structures and you know things in order to be able to uh help people to see oh well it's not as difficult as i suspected and i do now see a starting point and a journey involved with this because development is just that i mean you and i had this discussion earlier talking about where we were and what we experienced and how that implemented us and what we chose to do about it and you know all of those things it's a journey um but i think when you start you know looking at um some of these structures and frameworks to get us going one of your foundational components and elements is something you call the growth rings and again you talk about that in the ted talk and we'll link to that on your show notes page but at a high level if you could please help us understand what the growth rings are all right so as i go through this gym feel free to jump in and interrupt me at any time here and and ask tell me to either shut up or or go further down this road or just seriously because i can go forever on this so the growth rings are they represent environments and and so there's four primary environments and they represent environments that either promote or hinder growth of living things okay so they represent environments that promote or hinder growth of living things now environments we'll talk about those for a second are our perceived surroundings that shape living things okay there are our perceived surroundings because what may be an environment to me maybe a different environment to you okay then we step back away from that and environments are created by our response to forces that exist in the world and there are primary cultural forces and there are physical forces and there are social forces and without going into great depth on all those the obvious ones right now for example the pandemic is the physical force how we respond to that pandemic creates our own environment and that i'll get to in a minute what those four environments are but so the forces are not um they are not environments of themselves it is how we respond to them so the pandemic like i said is an example of a physical force a forest fire in a forest would be an example of a physical force um in an environment that creates either within or creates an environment social forces are where we come in uh jim we are it is the teachers coaches bosses parents and our lives and how we respond to our engagement and interactions with them also dictate our environments okay now so so let's take a step back from that you're my boss jim and how i and the others on my team respond to you um getting back to the growth rings puts us in one of four environments it can be either stagnation stagnation is a negative growth environment as the word would depict where there's too many steps and permissions and minutia and we're typically are growing we're just going backwards we in a business perspective you can see stagnation occur um with high-tech companies think no further than like compact computers kodak blockbuster right we're really tech dependent and if we don't keep up or keep ahead of it blow and going to stagnation in a hurry chaos is the antithesis of that chaos is having no idea what's coming and going the pandemic has created a tremendous amount of chaos in people's lives right now from both a personal and a business perspective we don't have any control we don't know what's kind of going to happen next and we certainly don't know what the outcome is going to be that's the second growth ring the third one is what we call order order is knowing that what you do or what is happening around you leads to a predictable outcome now here's where it gets interesting predictability is what creates comfort now that's i'll just let the listeners think about that for a second when i know what the outcome's going to be whether even it's good or bad that's what creates comfort and while order is part of a high growth high performing teams there there is some order involved we see it in our research the challenge with order is because it creates comfort it's where we want to be that's our visceral response is to to have these predictable outcomes and to be in a state of comfort the challenge is we only grow in a state of discomfort discomfort is created by the fourth ring it's a result of being in what's called a complex environment don't think of complexity as complicatedness just think of it as the name of an environment where now inputs have changed and when inputs change outcomes are unpredictable and it's unpredictability that creates discomfort so we'll just kind of noodle on that for a minute well as you're talking about that and you and you edit and you explain it with a visual and everything so you know it helps a lot of people kind of put these things in proper context but you talk about those four primary themes and then you break them out into eight sub themes and really what these do is enable us to focus um where some of the order comes in but then also gives us an understanding of you know where we want to create some discomfort because it it is it shouldn't be um a situation where we create discomfort in places where it's not going to add value to anyone including the organization customers and so on and so forth uh and so i think these sub categories are really important and also i want you to talk about how these subcategories either get impacted through them from an evolutionary state as well as from you know increased information and data so that they have to be iterated okay so these four sub themes are you have overall coaching theme which is overall coaching impact and then coaching culture and then you have relationship themes which are relationship building and listening then you have order things which are coaching activity and coaching consistency and then complexity things which are self-development and catalytic factor now that's what's in the book so even before we started our interview you said well even from when we wrote the book i mean some of these things have changed because of the data that we're collecting and you know things along those lines but if you could you know give us an understanding of and you kind of did you did a moment ago when you were explaining you know give us an understanding of the order you know how i need to focus how i need to execute how i need to get started and how these things can iterate okay uh uh wow great you've done your due diligence jim um first of all let me let me back up on this so when we think about those four uh rings within the growth rings and you know again their stagnation order complexity and chaos when we look at high-growth high-performing teams really two of them come into play that that have to be there uh components of order and components of complexity if there's stagnation or chaos involved things are getting bad in your teams okay as leaders as coaches we control this we have the greatest impact on that environment within our organization okay so within order now before hold on before i get there there's one more primary theme so the primary themes when we look at high growth high performing teams there's an order theme a complexity theme and a relationship theme that you and i haven't even discussed yet of those three they are inextricably linked but yet what's foundational the one that's most foundational is relationship without that in place the other two fall apart you cannot put in healthy order or healthy complexity in other words you can't put in great processes and systems and you can't challenge people and make them uncomfortable without first having a relationship a trust-based relationship in place so what you were already alluding to jim is those of those three primary themes we'll break them apart first of all relationship there are two sub themes under relationship and i think you missed them one was listening and the other what was the other uh uh trust uh we had relationship building so relationship builder right so yes that's evolved even since the printing of this book for example listening used to be one when we continue to look at data listening is no longer having a very strong correlation to discretionary effort to driving a stronger relationship as weird as that may sound but what we've found that is replacing it that has a stronger uh correlation is psychological safety so relationship now we measure that by measuring the psychological safety a leader or coach brings to their teams as well as their ability to we use the term connect create trust-based relationships so those are the two themes that re that comprise relationship um order it is doing you know the right activities at the right time and doing them consistently those are themes that are measurable within teams as well and then when you look back at complexity and this is what this is one that surprised us most in our research um and we talked about this in the book early on we figured that there needed to be trust and relationship involved we knew that there were probably great systems and accountabilities and processes that great coaches and leaders had in place but there was something else and we kept investigating it and then when we discovered it we couldn't even figure out how to explain it and that's how quite frankly the growth rings were developed but it is my my leader my coaches ability to create healthy discomfort and i used it to the qualifier healthy gym because you can make me uncomfortable through fear that is not healthy i can grow you can make me uncomfortable i can still grow in fear right i'm just not going to do it with you for long turnover will eventually uh increase right my engagement will go down so when we measure this within organizations we're measuring a leader or coach's ability to develop your skills when whatever role you're in and the only way we're going to develop them is by challenging you and making you uncomfortable and by creating what we call catalytic events that means i'm going to do something to disrupt because when disruption occurs growth should be the outcome of that if it's done well so that's a long answer i apologize but those are kind of the themes and the beautiful part about this is they're all measurable people wonder and you know well how do i know this how do i know if i've got great leaders how do i know if i've got great coaches how do i know if i have great managers and i hate that term um measure it you can quantify it now there's so that's how it's done well and as you're talking i start thinking about you know going back to the conversation about you know taylorism you know frederick taylor when we first started looking at management and all that stuff and you talked about the turn of the century meaning the 19th um you know there there is a significant shift that has happened because of the type of work that we are doing today where the the manager and the coach and the leader have to be the same person it's no longer a situation of choice it's a situation of necessity and essentialistic types of foundations in order for an organization to be not just thriving but surviving and so if i start thinking about going back to what you had mentioned it's the you know the frontline people are doing their work it's a whole lot of chaos a whole lot of disorder and a whole lot of you know things that are going on that are going to impact you know the organization a whole and you have this middle group that is trying to sustain and maintain and put in process and all that and you have these groups at the top which are also dealing with the chaos so you got you got this wall um and you you you know you talked about them uh in a lot of different ways in regards to these constraints and and all of that how can we take and i think the important point is what we're talking about here is how do we get the manager and the leader you know and the coach to be the same person uh and that's you're right and that's a very poignant question and that is in essence really what what the book is all about it's it's people need to behave when we when we go back and look at everything people need to behave more like a high growth a high performing athletic coach than they need to be a business leader and and here's how we differentiate that we believe great coaches have management skills we believe great coaches have amazing leadership behaviors and traits the difference where we separate this is i can be a follower the way the way we view leadership i could be a follower and be a great leader i can have great leadership characteristics and great leadership traits the only real gap between coaching and leadership is to coach i got to have a team of people a follower again can have great leadership traits to be a coach i gotta have a team of people that reports to me so that's our distinction and we we know in our research people who do the right activities with the right frequency and the right quality uh can can can evolve from someone who just behaves more like a manager into a coach someone behaves more just like a leader but into a coach that if they really put their mind to it our ability to evolve is limitless it's just how much are we willing to do well and so you then you talk about you know having coaching activities you talk about meetings you talk about one-on-ones you talk about team meetings and you go into depth of those in the book we don't have time to go into those you know on the show that's why people need to get the book um but one area of having those medians that i think really impacts the whole quality element that you're kind of opening the door for is something you call tone now we've all heard about tone but in context of going from being you know just that average to being a high performer tell us a little bit about tone um you know sarah worth in our company our president studies pays a lot of attention to this i don't pay as much attention to it because i think naturally i seem to be better at it but then i catch myself not doing it so when we refer to tone it's are we being condescending how are we communicating with our voice hi the questions we're asking are we asking why questions versus how questions and when you're in a coaching relationship when you ask why versus how now don't get me wrong it's the opposite if we're talking strategically about a business how or why questions are better than how questions but one-on-one from a coaching relationship if i ask you why if that's the tone whether i mean it or not if that's the word i use regardless of my tone you're going to be on the defensive so you know if i were to say jamie i look back on the air why was it you handled this situation the way you did also now you're like oh i did something wrong you know so why questions are an example of of not just tone um and we need to approach people from the basis of a trust-based relationship i'll use that term again if i'm visiting with a friend which is now you're not going to be beer drinking buddies with everybody on your team i understand that but you need to be able to sit down with everybody and have a one-on-one conversation that is give and take not top down it everything starts culture starts top down but it's only perpetuated bottom up so i'm going to visit with you jim not as your coach or your boss or your teacher or your mentor i'm just going to have a conversation with you and what's fascinating to me is like i'll sit down with our vp of sales i learn as much from him in our one-on-ones as i think as i'm confident he he then he learns from me because i don't go in with an attitude and a tone of i'm going to depart upon you all this amazing wisdom i'm going to i have the tone i'm going to sit down and say help me understand you're weak help me understand your last two weeks and everything from what's happening at home to what's happening at work and really what you're talking about there is feedback i mean that that is a you know a feedback practice and activity that is a different behavior than using some of the you know uh accusatory type of statements and the defensive types of statements it's it's doing feedback better uh and one of my mentors dr shane mcconan you know talks about feedback that it's one of the most vital yet lowest performing uh human development areas so if we talk about you know feedback what do we need to do in order for feedback to be high performance um that's a really powerful question and let me and let me affirm basically what you said when we look at all the things that great coaches leaders do then the one activity that has the highest correlation to creating discretionary effort from the people on your team is feedback next is one-on-ones but first is feedback so when we use that term feedback really needs to be looked at in two different ways number one it's it's it needs to be woven into the fabric of who you are and what you do we're always providing feedback within our organization we do the same thing with our clients we help them understand that every single interaction and engagement you see from people on your team is an opportunity for feedback and right now within most organizations feedback is viewed as something that happens only when something is done wrong and that's what that we we first and foremost we've got to get rid of it tom osborne the retired football coach at university of nebraska would always say one of the most powerful powerful things i do is i i try and catch somebody doing something right and then i tell them and we miss that within business you know it's it's i'm going to walk in somebody's office they look up at me if their instinct their visceral instinct is oh oh bill's in here i did something wrong that's bad right so feedback good bad and indifferent they use it in the world of sport i could quote you all kinds of sports psychologists it's it's the first the best thing they can do right and then here's the other part of it in business when we look at results uh leaders who provide objective feedback at least once a quarter are in the top 20 percent at least once a quarter i'm going to provide you objective feedback not just oral not just i'm talking on paper and writing whatever that may be you're going to get it in in in terms of i say get it not be in trouble but get get that written word well and as you're saying that i even start thinking about it well let you go back to the relationship there's two people involved with that there's a coach and a coachee and oftentimes what you'll find is everybody's bringing all of their previous experiences who their previous leaders were their previous cultures uh i mean all of that into let's just say a feedback or one-on-one session or even a team you know meeting for that matter and so part of the responsibility here is also being a better coachee you know at being engaged with the feedback process and so oftentimes you'll find where you may be doing everything right you have the right behaviors you're asking the right questions you're doing it best you possibly can in order to be able to create the relationship and build trust however you still have two people that are part of it and you have essentially a coachee that's underdeveloped doesn't know how to receive it and also themselves they don't know how to deliver it because their the feedback should go both ways right so what do we need to do in order to prepare coachees to be better coachees you know um it first starts i just gotta take it back to ourselves we own that as coach now does that mean every coachee is coach a bull no way it doesn't and there's all kinds of programs and and you know uh occupational assistance people that can help for those people sometimes they're just not worth having on your team it's just but it everything begins with you have you created the relationship because here's what we know you try and provide objective or even uh informal feedback to somebody that you haven't created a trust-based relationship with you don't know what their goals are you know what their strengths are you don't know whether they're in the state of order or complexity um and now all of a sudden you're giving feedback it's like who are you you don't know anything about me and yet you're trying to provide me feedback so i it it still begins with the the coach well needless to say uh for all of us in order to be able to you know really find a primary focus and all this because you know we're talking about creating some positive you know disruption we're talking about you know focus and and changing behaviors we need inspiration one of the things that we look for on the show for inspiration are quotes do you have a favorite quote that uh you'd like to share uh you know those evolve for me right now the one i hang my hat on and that evokes emotion from me every time i hear or see it is is very simple it's from victor frankel uh the author of a man's search for meaning and the quote is between stimulus and response there is a space in that space is our power to choose our response in our response lies our growth and our freedom that right there and probably because where i'm at in life as well jim that that's just it's a very powerful quote to me uh yes uh it's one in that for even for myself you know uh i have to try to remember my whole response try to make gap where i need to make it and try to teach my kids the same thing well however there's times when we don't do that right and even when we started talking about the whole our past experiences and things like that they formulate who we are where we're going and the actions we may take or may not we talk about getting over the hump you know so there's lessons that we've learned and people can learn from those stories that we share is there a time where you've gotten over the hump that you can share [Music] it'll ruin the opening to the ted talk but for those who watch it yes it um i think really again here's it's an example of growth through discomfort and you mentioned it uh when you were introducing me in 2008 i was fired from my job i'd never been fired at anything before you know since getting kicked out of school in the seventh grade um yeah i was terminated for my role just what i was told it was a reorganization but i went from you know flying high to crashing and burning um within minutes and the fascinating part of that is while it created chaos you know in the short run the chaos turned into uh complexity the complexity turned into major growth um as a result of that i started my own company as a result of that i was able to do it ted talk as a result of that i mean everything from that point on in my life changed and while i thought right away it had changed for the worst it didn't it changed for the better um i mean to the to the point where jim i can quite literally say you and i wouldn't be on this podcast right now had i not been fired back in 2008 unpredictable outcomes that's uh yeah and this at the time when you're immersed in it it doesn't seem that way um you know the wisdom that comes later you know will help you to find you know peace and resolve and also take a better path right so when i start looking at the book when i start talking to you i start thinking about you know talk about even your volunteer work um you know there's goals that you that i know you have and that you set is there one goal that you can share with us uh that's yet to happen absolutely um i ca i can't it was interesting about a year and a half ago i said i don't think i'll ever get out of this business until we uh start an athletic arm because we had all that all we had done is is is working in the business sector and uh just by even no planning on our own we were pulled into athletics so that that's one of those recent ones right now we recently pulled into education so while in business you know we're measuring the impact leaders and coaches having the performance of teams and we measure and quantify it and help them understand what to do and how to do it better we brought that to athletics you know and said people said hey measure the impact coaches are having on student athletes that's what we were doing and then recently education a superintendent very forward-looking superintendent approached us and said i want it for my teachers i want to know and i want my teachers to know the impact they're having on students in the classroom and if we can help help them have more positive impact on students we can change the world so that's our newest venture right now is where we're working in that and where that leads i don't know but i tell you what nothing is more profound don't get me wrong i love working in business uh i love the way business leaders think in the way they move and act but man working with students i don't know if there's just something way more organic about that jim it just feels real good and the fast leader legion wishes you the very best now before we move on let's get a quick word from our sponsor an even better place to work is an easy to use solution that gives you a continuous diagnostic on employee engagement along with integrated activities that will improve employee engagement and leadership skills in everyone using this award-winning solution is guaranteed to create motivated productive and loyal employees who have great work relationships with our colleagues and your customers to learn more about an even better place to work visit beyondrail.com forward slash better all right here we go fast leader legion it's time for the home day [Music] okay bill the hump day hold on is the part of our show where you give us good insights fast so i'm gonna ask you several questions and your job is to give us a robust yet rapid responses that are gonna help us move onward and upward faster bill eckstrom are you ready to hold down okay baby let's go i don't know where this is going but let's have some fun all right so what is holding you back from being an even better leader today my mind and what is the best leadership advice you have ever received um meditate and what is one of your secrets that you believe contributes to your success my ability to identify and acquire amazing talent and what do you feel is one of your best tools that helps you lead in business or life uh best tool uh my family and what would be one book you'd recommend to our legion it could be from any genre of course we're going to put a link to the coaching effect on your show notes page as well man's search for meaning by victor frankl okay fast leader legion you can find links to that and other bonus information from today's show by going to fastleader.net slash bill extreme and extreme is e-c-k-s-t-r-o-m okay bill this is my last hump they hold on question imagine you've been given the opportunity to take the knowledge and skills that you have now back to the age of 25 but you can't take it all you can only take one so what skill or piece of knowledge would you take back with you and why become what i would take back with me is i would become more comfortable with discomfort the why behind that is pretty simple growth only occurs in a state of discomfort so learning to how learning to accept discomfort when needed inappropriate and recognize and acknowledge it for what it is would would have created that much more growth in my life from an early age bill i had fun with you today how can the fast leader legion get in touch with you uh thank you for that opportunity jim uh our company is excel institute which is spelled e-c-s-e-l-l excel institute dot com there's uh bill eckstrom.com as well uh site i'm on linkedin i am on twitter i'm on instagram i don't do facebook i'm on those three um and i always respond if someone wants to reach out to me directly you know following the tech talk i've had hundreds and hundreds of people reach out to me personally and ask me questions or want to engage and i have every single one with the exception of one creepy person but so if somebody wants to reach out and ask me a question or engage i will do it all but the creepy people oh yeah i won't go into details thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom the fast leader legion honors you and thanks you for helping us get over the hump thank you for joining me on the fast leader show today for recaps links from every show special offers and access to download and subscribe if you haven't already head on over to fastleader.org so we can help you move onward and upward faster