Effortlessly Manage Your Driver Bill Format for Building Services

Driver bill format for Building services

[Music] hey everybody welcome to show Andel so if you haven't tuned in before just as a little uh summary this live stream is where the TBD team shows and tells you about the latest greatest open- source project or concept going on at TVD because we love to be open about what we're working on um just as a quick note during the show whether you are on Twitch LinkedIn YouTube Discord you can drop questions in the chat and we will answer them in the second half of our show sometimes we may pick on them uh during and I am your host and moderator Tanya Technical Community manager here and joining us as our guest for the day is Gabe and will feel free to introduce yourselves real quick go ahead hi uh thanks Tanya it's great to be here I'm will Wilkinson I'm the head of policy and government Partnerships here at TBD awesome hi um nice to meet you all I'm Gabe I and um working on Open Standards at TVD awesome all right so before Today's Show feel free to answer in the chat everybody where you're tuning in from I see um will you mentioned from La I'm from New York myself what about you Gabe I'm in Oakland California cool all righty so whenever you're ready you can feel free to share your screen Angie New Orleans awesome all right I see ebony mentioned Boston okay here we go so yeah this is a presentation we gave at the California DMV hackathon that they held at the beginning of this month uh we'll run through some of the slides there to show off the work that we did um some of it you'll already be familiar with as our audience um so the the square side of things this this is really a partnership between TBD and square we're all one company but we don't often get the chance to work with one another um luckily this opportunity presented a good chance to cross-pollinate between our two groups and we're highlighting here what what Square does all these numbers are public but um for the California DMV they they really care about access to Californians and the reach of this product um offering globally um sorry Nationwide even though square is a global company this is our first Focus um so square is over 36 product offerings over 4 billion in sales previous year and billions of dollars and payments processed um what we're focusing on is the square retail product because what we have showed off is um buying or gaining access to age restricted items using privacy preserving proofs so uh on that note over a third of Square Merchants handle age restricted items and about 15% of all sales involve age restricted items so uh introducing a private preserving solution to check your age um would have a pretty big impact for the square product and specifically we can't give exact numbers but certainly millions of Californians that use Square Merchants uh throughout the year could benefit from this privacy preserving solution will do you want to take the next couple sure um so you know as everybody's follow TBD uh knows TBD is an open source company and we have a uh you know kind of Bedrock commitment to Open Standards uh you know we were established as an open source business unit um and we're building open protocols for financial messaging and credential exchange to help everyone access and participate in the global global economy um and so followers of uh you know this stream will know a lot about our open source projects all of our sdks that enable digital identity and verifiable credentials um and we're very active in the decentralized identity space um we you know are present on committees um we're on Boards of uh companies that are doing Open Standards for identity and verification like the open ID Foundation the w3c and the decentralized identity Foundation so um you know Square Sellers and everybody's familiar with those you all go into coffee shops and you know uh you know if you work for a block like I do I'm always like interested and what point of sales service somebody's using I'll be like oh toast but like I'm always happy when I see that they're using a Square Terminal um and uh you know a lot of those Sellers as Gabe just said use um you know sell age restricted items like tobacco or alcohol um you know most grocery stores most convenience stores do um and they need a feature to prompt for a buyer to check the IDS of their customers who are coming in to buy um age restricted products um the actual rules around that vary from state to state some states say that you know if the person looks over 40 uh you don't have to check their ID or something like that and that's usually gets me off look um but you know to be safe generally places have a policy that requires you to check the it um sellers um you know bear some risk and liability around selling um you know age restricted items if they can get in trouble with the police they can get in trouble with their uh you know State alcohol board if um there's evidence that they haven't been checking the IDS of their customers and so um a feature that helps sellers be confident that um that their Point of Sales system can capture the fact that they've been um vetting their customers is very helpful um as you know stores and um grow and their number of employees grow their compliance risk grows as well um and you know square has been trying to push into um you know bigger markets and uh you know you know do bigger venues square is the point of sales system at Sofi Stadium uh here in Los Angeles which does you know in a given night millions of dollars of transactions of beer uh you know and other age restricted items so um any technology that can help streamline that process and make sure that the vendor is doing their uh you legally required due diligence can help them a lot um so supporting features like a like privacy preserving um age verification can you know help Sellers and it can increase the you know satisfaction uh with uh the square product um and uh you know by doing a lot of things that they need to do anyway awesome yeah so um these are some use cases from um Square Merchants that the square retail team had talked to um mostly for the feature they launched earlier this year which is is a standard uh age verification feature that does traditional scanning of the barcode on your driver's licenses or any other state issued ID and a lot of the research done here is applicable to this more privacy preserving solution so a lot of the stores and Merchants we uh the team spoke to were worried about the things that will just said complying with uh regulations reducing their risk making sure they're not um enabling fraudulent transactions making sure that they stay compliant um so having all this data really affirms that this solution is not just a benefit for the individuals that are doing a purchase but also for the merchants um that square selling products to to make sure that they're they're uh experience in running their stores is more seamless so mdls can help broadly uh reduce fraud and risk preserve the privacy of individuals and also grow transaction volume um preserving privacy is the one I care about the most uh selfishly because I I think it's a little strange that we live in this world where we need to show um essentially strangers our very personal information like our he weight and address if we want to buy an AG restricted product and using this new technology we we don't have to do that and we get the same high level assurances that would be present with the previous flow but in a in a better manner um the true AG program um like will was saying does allow you to reduce fraud and risk across Merchants if there are State limits on things like um certain products um such as Vapes or other other things that uh states don't want you to buy many items of within a given month or even go between merchants and buy them at a high volume this program could help um introduce limits and true AG is you know I'll mention a little bit about it it's a it's a um it's a product that's created by uh um the you know the professional association for American convenience stores right because there's a lot of laws and a lot of jurisdictions like Gabe was saying that restrict uh how much how many Vape pods an individual can buy or how much um cold medicine you could buy because you know they worried people are going to make that into meth um and so that um the true age is a way of you know creating this system where you can make sure that both make sure that people are the age that they need to be but they're not you know going from store to store to store and buying you know huge quantities of cold medicine they're then cooking into meth um it's has a way of like tracking um that a particular user hasn't you know is only buying some much um without revealing um their identity information um if you you know go over your quotea that's associated with your ID it just doesn't let the transaction go through um it doesn't like alert the cops or anything like that it just um you know puts a threshold on the quantity that you can buy but the uh but the main use case is just to check ages in a way that doesn't require people to you know reveal any more information yeah exactly um another thing to note is that mdls are kind of a broader topic they're being rolled out across the US and outside the US as well through age um is kind of a derived proof from a driver's license it's not quite an mdl but it does open the door to brl adoption um at square and throughout the rest of Block's businesses so we view it as the same bucket of digital State um issued identity but um there's room for more in the future and we can talk about that after we show off some cool demos So to that so the first flow we showed off is on um a square register we have demos both for IOS and Android based Square products um let me know if you can hear the audio a common square retail seller countertop setup includes a square register with a connected Barcode Scanner a sell can add items to cart by selecting them on the screen or scanning the items barcode now we will add some alcohol to cart which is age restricted to buyers over the age of 21 the seller is prompted to verify the customer's age scanning a valid driver's license adds the item to cart the standard driver's license and codes data in the PDF 417 barcode these can be easily generated online and d now we'll demonstrate this with a mobile driver's license as we can see we successfully verified the mobile driver's license and that the buyer meets the age requirement here we can see that we got a response validating that the buyer is over 21 if additional age restricted items are added to the same cart the seller will not be prompted to verify age again if I complete the sale or clear the cart it resets the verification and will prompt the seller to check the new buyer's ID the point of sale will also display an error and not add the item to cart if the ID cannot be verified here's what happens when the seller scans a code that is not from a trusted issuer this is what makes these IDs difficult to the point of sale will also return an error if the mdl is verifiable but expired all right so that was using the the Square Register uh that you've all probably seen in many merchants and next we'll show off the square IOS app for retail so this is an even more accessible option you don't have to buy any special Hardware you can just use your existing phone and complete the same type of flow a comment this functionality is also offered in our Square for retail iOS at which is often used by smaller merchants or those who sell on the go a mobile device would also be more appropriate when applying this to a bar or restaurant use case here the device camera is used to scan the mdl all right so that's it this functionality is also so that is the presentation we gave um I would like to add that we're um exploring how we can roll this out to production and also expand the usage Beyond California U there's some other interesting digital identity crossovers into the square product that we're exploring but are too early to talk about yet um but we would love to hear your thoughts and take any questions um but want to make sure will do you have anything else to add before we go to that no let's just uh you know address uh any questions that people have all right yeah so there are definitely a couple um great presentation and I also just wanted to say before we start answering them um I have always found it equally strange that you have to tell like you have to show your ID that reveals way too much about you to a complete stranger um makes sense that you need to verify your age but you know um wanting everything else to be private is uh important but let's see um so some initial comment so Austin mentioned it's good not just for Brick and Mortar Merchants but online businesses as well um am I also coming through okay was like jumping yeah it's coming through okay um yeah I mean like like that's the future of these credentials um and uh and you know that's really the reason that TVD has invested heavily in them is that um we can uh you know build these credentials that can be exchanged over you know a financial messaging protocol to you know establish trust and ensure that you know financial institutions are complying with their obligations the quality of those credentials really depends on the issuers of these kind of foundational identity documents that we all work on work with like um your driver's license the United States is a little bit peculiar uh globally in that there is no national ID so our driver's licenses are basically our de facto um you know sort of governmen issued identity document um and you can building credentials off of those you know allows you to prove all these things like how old you are that you're the person that you say you are um and uh but that's going to be most useful when people can use that credential um remotely when you can use it online so we're showing here a you know an in-person use case for uh a mobile driver's license and um and a derived credential from that driver's license um in the California DMV app um and so far there aren't a lot of uses for um you state digital driver licenses for um kind of remote presentation or for online use partly because most of the um DMVs have coordinated on using the the the ISO deal format which only just like was it like two weeks ago three weeks ago released their uh their specification for um for the you know remote presentation of an mdl um and uh and you know it's not our preferred format because the iso mdl standard is you know is only kind of Quasi open um you know membership in the iso working groups is pretty restricted you have to buy the um the standard from ISO which makes it difficult for independent developers to to Really build on it easily um so we prefer that DMVs use verifiable credentials um California um has done that which um is you know something that we had something to do with we try to like push them early on to adopt um Open Standards um and and you know we're hoping that other states follow their lead but the American Association of Motor Vehicle administrators is the main body that kind of sets standards for uh DMVs and they're kind of all in on mdls so we kind of have to work on both of those standards at once using verifiable credentials is a lot easier for the online use cases um because it already supports that in a in a way that's easier than the the mdl standard um did you have anything to add to that Gab yeah no I I agree with all that um I there's a slightly related question about if we're still committed to the web five project and I think your answer highlights that we are uh that's the main reason we've engaged with the California DMV because they're using the technology that we work on and care about um they're one of the only States if not the only state using dids and verifiable credentials um so we we still believe in that technology we still want to see it adopted and yes we're we're working to put into our our products across the vuse great um yeah and as Angie mentioned as like an additional uh to the uh original comment like that's where it can really shine with online businesses and yeah because taking a p picture of your driver's license and uploading that like that just feels so ancient at this point um another comment from Austin and maybe a point of clarification as well uh he mentioned love the Privacy preserving features of an age only verification but nervous about merchants or government's ability to track purchases ac you want to say more about how true age Works um because I I might have uh caused a little confusion there like because it because it doesn't track anything so like it what every time so I've got my you know my my California um you know Mobile wallet and you know it's a I can do um share my um you prove my age with true age and it generates this QR code um I I don't probably can't see it um but the uh but it's like generating a new code every time um that's that's it's a that's associated with your um with your with your mdl and and that is so if I buy something that's AG restricted that the law requires to be tracked by like convenience stores or or any of these stores then basically what it's doing on you know first it's checking the credential on the crew AG true AG database to see that you're over 21 or not that's like you know that information is coming from your mdl and then if it is one of these items that you're legally required to that that has a threshold of how much you can buy their database is just recording that this um that that that this uh you know identity has like you know bot one or bot two or bot three um and when you hit the threshold it just shuts off the approval for the purchase um but like no the vendor can't see anything about where you've purchased things before um it doesn't know it doesn't know anything about your history um the state doesn't have access to that information unless there's an investigation and then they like subpoena information from um from true age um that I I I'm pretty sure that's the way it works is that basically right Gabe yeah no it's exactly right um I'm putting a link in the chat here that links to the true age site but it's all your information is ized they don't share your personal information across Merchants it's kind of like an opusc skated way uh to check whether you've reached a limit or not and that's all the merchant will see like yeah I don't I don't really love some of these regulations um but like Merchants do have to comply with them um if they're selling the right kind of items in states that require this so there has to be a system to deal with that where it's legally required um and also we Ed the true age um in our demo because one it's it's available in the California DMV wallet um and that um has these nice privacy preserving features right like it allows for this pretty direct way of just giving a thumbs up thumbs down to the merchant without sharing any information at all from their mdl um to the merchant um and like when a merchant goes through one of these checks you know their system will be able to log that it checked the true age you know um you know QR code um you know brought back you know go went to the the true AG servers checked the so they have a provable way of showing that they check people's ages without capturing any information at all about the customer and none of that data you know that doesn't even need to hit the state or so the state doesn't need to won't know it about it it's just there um in the in in the system that's maintained by the by store Association awesome yeah and from what I remember as well and you mentioned already is true AG doesn't actually store or share any of these personal details in general um it's just like and I think it um so that way like the purchases that you're making aren't tied to your name um which I feel is like was the main concern to that question uh let me scroll up there's quite a few and that is a real like ongoing concern with the way States Implement um mobile driver licenses um so like um you know the there are a lot of policy questions around the way these get implemented um because there are good ways to you know design a mobile driver's license where the um where the identity of the of the person with the ID the you know that you can go and check that it's been signed by the state's key um in a way that makes all the verification very secure um without letting the state know but a lot of states have implemented things in a way that that does give the state insight into where it is that people are presenting their mdls um that's something that I think is not ideal because that gives people like very reasonable concerns about privacy and that um those concerns um really slow down the adoption of the technology like people aren't going to want to use something if they know that the state's can attract them um lots of states have you know rules that now um require um age verification if you're a teen and want to open a social media account or if you want to access an adult website you need to prove that you're a certain age um people aren't going to use their state issued ID for those kinds of purposes like um you know like you know do I want the state to know that I'm a you know frequent visitor of only fans or something like that like like people don't want right like so if you want to implement the technology in a way that actually is consistent with adoption you have to build in um privacy and Assurance to people that they can use it like their physical driver's license you know you you go into the adult bookstore and show your ID like like that the fact that you showed your ID never goes back to the state in any way right like and you need a system that you know that is analogous to that where when I show my digital ID to somebody they can go and check to make sure that it's authentic but the state doesn't capture the fact that it's been checked yeah very good note uh very important because uh you definitely don't want to feel like when you uh because my concern in uh thinking about the technology is exactly as you described like I don't want to go let's just say I'm getting like alcohol for a party or something like that I don't want the state to know that this is what I got or the store to retain that information other than you know uh like similar to in person where you can just walk away um another use case that somebody mentioned anonymously might be leasing an apartment which is pretty cool I I thought about that too any comments on that I mean any use case like like you know we use our driver's licenses constantly to prove our identity right like it is our primary identity document um and you know like you start a new job and you have to come in and they like photocopy your driver's license and your Social Security card right like all of that stuff is is can be done in a better way using digital credentials where you could um you know if if you know your landlord has a system that supports it and a lot of you know high percentage of rental properties are run by these giant rental companies that have a lot of infrastructure um they could easily you know build this into the way their rental application works but that you could share your your driver's license um and uh and and make that like a lot easier um for people um you know but the same with like you're just applying for credit or um a use case that I like is um is kind of gig work on boarding right where if you want to be a door Dash driver or you want to be a you know lift or Uber driver they do a pretty thorough you know check on you that involves like you know capturing your identity data you have to upload your driver's license um like a great use for um you know kind of a derived verifiable credential is you know you go through this process once with door Dash they've vetted you show that you are the person that you say you are um you have a license to drive in the state that you're driving in um you have um the insurance that you're required to have you don't have a criminal record right like all of those things if if that can be embodied in a credential that you could reuse it you know across platforms so that when you want to be an Uber driver now and in addition to a door Dash driver you don't have to go through this incredibly onerous process again and again and again um that like you know I think that's you get a lot of efficiencies as this kind of Technology scales up and people become comfortable with um you know building credentials off of these primary um identity documents great yeah um just being able to uh have that checklist done for the uh information that's required to lease an apartment for example versus like having to give it over and over again would really be way more efficient I would love that right now please um let's see uh this question was answered earlier that the merchant doesn't have anything to track um in case I'm just highlighting it in case you wanted to add in anything but I feel like we explained it pretty well yeah I think we've covered that y okay um let's see um this is a comment related to what we also described which is I'm happy to hear that you're targeting production experiences in the Square ecosystem until people can play with this in the real world it won't click for many people and I agree um until some people are actually using something the concept of something might be hard for them to understand until that point uh I myself can be that way so this is absolutely why the DMV was sponsored a hackathon right like they really want people to adopt you know digital driver's licenses like they they've you know made a big investment in building a wallet they building infrastructure for issuing these credentials um you know making it compatible with the Google Wallet and the and the Apple wallet um and like but what's the point of it if nobody accepts it right like like you can have it in your phone but what's the point of having it in your phone if there's nothing you can use it for right like and that's what they're trying to you know um encourage is you know they want businesses to you know present use cases that make these actually practical and useful for people and it does click once you see it so like the kind of solution that we presented is I think I you know a kind of interim solution based on where the technology is right now with the way that the California DMV has implemented their wallet um but um you know I think the future is you know like you can you know in h California in a lot of States you can now you know hold your driver's license just like in your Apple wallet which has access access to the NFC chip um and and you know the the the experience sooner or later is going to be you're going to tap um like on the terminal you know like the little the picture from your driver's license that's that the state has pops up so that they can like look at you and you know check that you're the same person um and you know that technology can just do selective disclosure in a way that it's just asking you do you want to share your age information with the merchant you can permission that yes they get the thumbs up on their terminal and that's it right like and and like somebody you know at the hackathon had a you know a a version of that and it's so slick it's so easy um and and like when you see it in action you're just like this is really an improvement like the the the scanning a QR code thing is still bit clunky right like people who have like a terminal still have to have a separate scanner you know one of those old you know laser gun things beep yeah um and uh just having an integrated package like Square Terminals and lots of point of sale terminals can you know already set up to do tap to pay using the same technology you can exchange the information that's on an mdl um in a you know selective privacy preserving way there's still a lot of questions about how to manage that data um whether Merchants want to have uh you know you know like a picture of the person pop up on their screen um things like that to work through um but there's like uh there's um where things are today there's already the potential for a really low friction uh identity and age verification experience um like at retailers yeah something else I want to add on is that I could see uh us replacing one clunky interaction with another and we're not careful like today you have to potentially take out your wallet show an ID then tap to pay on your phone it's like a lot of things in your hand like using a single device could be better hopefully but if it's cross different apps or if it's difficult or you have to face ID or tap twice there could still be significant friction in um proving your age time of checkout so I think that we have a good opportunity to make this ux better um like will was saying a lot of square terminals or allcore terminals have pay with cash app and cash app could be a place that does everything in one tap um so you don't have to go through that clunky flow that's something we're interested in looking into as well that makes sense and that's a really good uh note to make because um what's the point of new technology if it's not going to make the experience overall better and seamless right um coming from relle I might have missed that I might have missed it but is this just a prototype or is it ready for companies to adopt so my my understanding is it is just a prototype it's in the production Cod line but feature flagged off uh there's definitely some more work we need to do to make it production ready but we're actively working with the square team to do that awesome uh another comment from Austin I had no idea get to pay to use ISO standards that seems so backwards that does I agree I did not know that either you do it's they're it's not it's not cheap like do you know what how much it is Kade uh I want to say in the hundreds um however yeah that's not the only problem you have to buy a license for each person who looks at it yeah that's right oh wow and you can't just join uh ISO um as a company or even as an individual they're kind of this member State uh delegation I don't know it's a strange format it's not clear how I would participate or anyone would unless you already have the right connections which yeah there there is a process that you can do to like join an ISO working group but it's a it's it's not very transparent and it's um and it favors companies with a lot of resources who have a vested interest in keeping the credential or keeping the standard uh in a format that benefits them specifically um so um the you know the um this is actually a real you know going issue in the digital identity space because in the United States the mdl standard is the dominant one for digital driers licenses um and the opacity of the process by which the the the standard gets you know kind of finalized um and the inability of like every stakeholder to participate in that like creates a lot of worries around um around privacy whether it's being built um to protect the rights of the people who are going to use it or if it's being built to um Advantage companies or to you know satisfy demands of States who want to spy on people right like so there's you know like one of the benefits of an open process for settling on stand s is that you know everybody who has a stake in the way it turns out has a chance to show up at the table and their concerns can be aired um everybody has a chance to like look at you know see the process happening and can try to influence it in a way that like that uh protects the interest of the people in their you know interest group um and so you know it's a long uh you know there's there's as far as we can tell there's nothing wrong specifically with the mdl standard um for the for the most part um and it's you know it can be integrated you can basically use it to create a verifiable credential that has the same um information on it um but like there's a lot of utility in having um governments issue the primary credential in an open interoperable format that um that everybody can use and that everybody can you know weigh in on and um you know you know and as things go into production and problems arise right like and you need to amend the standards right like you know we want people to be free to put you know give their input into that process rather than having it go back to a slightly shadowy committee whose deliberations aren't open awesome yeah and I wanted to highlight um just this uh comment from relle from Austin's earlier question about uh that we already answered but just in for people that join Midstream um with how committed we are to the web five project so we absolutely are super committed um especially like on web five like we're focused on dids the decentralized web especially um and Daniel uh on our team also has his own live streams where he shows the progress uh as we have it focused on the dweb so um totally appreciate the concerns um you know but happy to have you asked these questions as well I mean some of it is that a lot of like like the whole kind of web five thing is a pretty long-term ecosystem play where you need all of these elements to fall into place for that whole kind of structure to fit together right like and and and so like um like DW's um really come into their own once you know it becomes really typical for people to have you know dids that um they credentials are connected to um and but like right now we're at a point in the you know kind of adoption curve where you know we're just getting kind of started with with actual real World Adoption of like dids and VCS um but like we anticipate as that gets you know like bigger and bigger then the utility of the whole ecosystem starts to click into place um and and we're still invested in making sure that you know all of those pieces are there so that when adoption hits you know these tipping points that we have like the full Suite of tools to like enable all of the superpowers that you know like dids and VCS have um like because like me things like DW's really you know really supercharge that um once it really gets going yeah uh um this is a very interesting one and something I thought about too Douglas mentioned the homeless population will likely lose their governmen issued IDs I would love to explore a digital option to enable any service provider to verify them especially when providing Social Services because I know um from firsthand experience in volunteering locally especially during uh the Christmas holidays uh that's a problem that you run into quite often where people just you know when you're worried about having a roof over your head you may not know where your government issue ID is or you may not have the resources to renew it maybe uh even if like something that was shown in the demo earlier showing that you know your age is like this is your identity and I understand that your you know I uh your license may have expired some odd years ago maybe there could be something there yeah that's great point and and like one thing that I try to emphasize when I talk to governments about um you know digital IDs is that like the the traditional physical paper and plastic identity card and the you know digital version that lives on your phone or on the web like these are complimentary right like they don't really replace each other right some people can't afford phones right like some people don't have them they need the cards right like um and and uh but like Douglas is saying like like people also lose their lose the cards um you know you know in here in California where there has been a you know like a a real crisis with the just the number of unhoused people and some pretty you know like brutal Behavior by local governments in like sweeping out homeless encampments right like people lose their lose their wallets they lose their medications they and the and the thing that they're most likely to just like not lose and to have on their person is their phone right like so your your Camp gets swept and everything you own gets thrown away and the only thing you have left is your smartphone that you kept in your pocket um and and like and how are you supposed to access Services when you don't have your official ID anymore right like it becomes very very difficult like somebody in difficult circumstances has their you know the difficulty like Amplified by the local government throwing all their stuff away um so like I think there's that it's a really good point that that that that having digital versions of these credentials kind of gives people a backup that can be essential um and allows them to access Services even if they kind of lose their physical possessions I mean people's houses burned down like we just saw and you know there's huge floods in North Carolina people you know like everything they own got just Swept Away like including the little box that you keep all your passports and birth certificates and all that sort of like fundamental identity information in right like if you lose that it's really useful have a you know like a a digital version that is backed up you know like that that you can access um and so like I but I really do see these things as working together because sometimes you don't have internet sometimes your phone breaks right like like and you need to be able to show so like I think you know like I don't think digital credentials are ever going to replace physical credentials I think we need them both because they both have you know they're they're two different good technologies that have different uses yeah I just to add on I this past uh week there are some fires in the um region near where I live and the the group maybe um less than a mile from me had to evacuate and I was getting ready to evacuate as well thankfully nothing happened and the firefighters put it out in time um but I I took all the sensitive documents I have in my my home and it's a frightening thought to think that uh so much my life depends on a certain few pieces of paper it seems very fragile and tenuous so I I agree physical documents won't go away but if I could have digital backups in case of disaster that would be a lot better evenie of mind yeah yeah even if it's just like a way to even even it's very hard to get those physical documents back and verify your identity to do so without having physical documents too you know um going through and replacing like your driver's license I know is a bit easier than let's just say like the physical like social security cards as well like the concept that like I I definitely agree with both of you like both are equally important and I think it's super important to be able to provide that identity verification and the documents like when you really need them because that is definitely scary I'll mention from like a PO policy perspective one of the things that would really help here isn't um isn't so much technological it's just the way government services are delivered um so uh offering sort of easier access to idv services so that people can get identity credentials would be really useful so for example there was a a bill that was proposed you know a year or so back by you know a science fellow in Senator Bill Cassidy's office that would Empower local postal services to um do identity verification um you know like everywhere you know because everybody's close to a post post office post offices already do like these ID work specifically for like passports um but like you know this kind of like legislation would allow them to um run people through the idv process in a way that allows them to issue a credential that like a that a you know company like block could use to onboard somebody on a financial service it would be a real government issued credential that isn't necessarily a driver's license you know like you like it's kind of weird that the thing that says you're allowed to you know drive a box around uh on public roads is your main identity document like there can be lots of you know good highquality government identity documents and there are at the federal level but at the state level people are pretty restricted to this one option um and so if this if the government would support an idv process that could be leveraged by the private sector to offer people um you know kind of identity proofs that would give people a lot of access to um easier access to a lot of services and a you know and a way to kind of back up and prove their identities by having kind of multiple points of proof about who you are yeah uh this is a funny comment from Austin quick screenshot of Will's mdl gonna go buy a boatload of DayQuil well that's the thing with the two AG credentials you'll be able to use that that specific QR code once and then and then it regenerates it uh it trashes it and makes it again the next time you try to use it so you can buy one thing a day Quil with and time bound so you're better to hurry oh yeah you have 15 minutes so and I think it's already gone I think I think your window is closed that's so funny but it I mean it is a real like concern but it's good to know um let's see but yeah as a as a good piece of opsc don't show your identity QR codes over here yeah that's a good point to make a good you know uh safety net you know don't show your private credential don't show your QR code um let's see there's quite a bit of common so going through lots of fun discussion happening today um let's see oh and this is like an add-on from Douglas initially uh talking about you know looking into this within our community um would love to Pilot and type payments into this as well so that transient population continue to receive the services they need without physical cards that's that would be awesome I would really love to see that um um yeah was the name of the organization that the DMV um recognized for doing the app for um for migrant Farm Workers I don't remember so at the at the hackathon the um there you know there were several Awards um by the way the DMP gave us the award for the best you know security and privacy um implementation um um one of the award winners was this uh uh this group who is creating an app um that leveraged the state mdl to specifically to give like agricultural workers access to public services that they'd be eligible for um and the state was very excited about that um uh and you know and it's it's a great it's a great use case um like part of the problem there like this is why I was emphasizing why how important just making just the basic identity verification like the in-person identity verification process more accessible is that like you know physical card versus digital card doesn't like the the main thing is like both of those things need to be rooted in an idv process where somebody verifies that you are the person that you say you are and so the the real bottleneck is access to that a lot of times um so you if you have like you know undocumented workers I mean like the the UN the literally undocumented part of it is you know a problem because you know they can't get it can be very difficult to get other identity documents like you were saying Tanya like if you don't have them already right like you have a bootstrapping problem um and so you need um kind of other means of doing that like and there's so there's these really interest I'm just kind of riffing now I'm so sorry if I'm digressing but this is a real problem with like Refugee populations and the like the UN Refugee program has a you know like a process by which they um kind of investigate the identities of refugees who've lost everything so that the UN can give them a credential that says that they are who they are um and there's a special like passport that you can get as a refugee issued by the by the United Nations um but like that identity verification process is really difficult when people come to you and they're like I've been displaced like my entire Village was bombed to Smither I'm running for my life I don't have anything um but like I need to I still need to prove my identity like I'm I'm from you know like Syria like I like had to flee like like I need to Pro and and so like that's just like not really a problem that technology solves it can make it easier um because just that that basic trust that is like built by some trusted official Authority saying that you are T you are gay like like like we need that For Better or Worse um and so like making those Services more accessible is is is is is very important and a lot of times when you have undocumented or displace populations the best way you can do that is by is by you know having groups of people vouch for each other um and so having ways of formalizing that like yeah like this guy is from my Village I've known him since I was three and then you've got three p people who say that the person who said that is somebody that they know right the bigger you can kind of build out a little social network around them the more confidence you can have that that their identity is what they say it is and that's partly what the UN does in doing this identity verification for displaced people but it's just a really hard problem to solve like as I've been into this space I like thought a lot about that um and you know trying to think of ways that technology can help but it's like not so much just like identifying a person in the social world is not really a a technological problem it's a it's a social and political problem yeah and you weren't Roofing at all it's important to uh discuss these thing that's why people are tuning in as well um and I'm really passionate about that too uh and to add to this uh Austin mentioned honest question are you assuming that the same people that don't have a physical card have a mobile device or are you imagining they present digital credentials in a different way we kind of mentioned this already in Greater detail um I don't think there's an assumption that let's just say somebody loses their home that they are guaranteed to have their phone but it's understanding or it's thinking about the fact that you know let's just say uh like a hurricane comes through and you have to evacuate one of the first things you're told to bring with you is your phone uh when somebody loses their home and they are living on the streets it's possible that they may have their phone or if something like this is accessible to people um they can use somebody else's device at let's just say uh like um the DMV for example you know where they can find alternate ways or they can at least verify that digitally um I think that's the idea here because there was like one situation uh also occurring during the holidays where I helped somebody out with like getting access to some of their money so that they could pay for something and it was theirs but they don't have a phone you know so yeah anything you wanted to add to that I feel like we talked about it but we only have oh I just realized we only have like a minute you got it you nailed it yeah um let's see any last questions that we can answer quite a there's great oh like like L Lucy um who was one of the one of the organizers of the DMB hackathon um you know was the the wallet that for Agri inad was the name of the company um so I wanted to give them a shout out for um you know working on using these credentials to you know you know enhance access to services for um you know not rich people with iPhones who are trying to use their credential to get through the security line but for like um you know workers on the front lines who may not have uh you know access to a lot of this stuff um I think you know working on use cases for kind of less privileged populations is what's going to really make this seem worthwhile yeah and all right well thank you everybody for joining I wanted to highlight this link from Gabe um yes so this should be about the hackathon uh I'll be sure to post the link in this uh video as well so after this live stream is over you'll be able to rewatch any part of this video and click any links that we shared throughout the stream in the description to the video on our YouTube channel so yeah all right well thank you both so much for an amazing show and tell it was really great to not only talk about the award one through uh the partnership with square and TBD at the California DMV hackathon it was great to touch on these like really important like real life use cases too thank you thanks Sonia it was fun to be here yeah questions everybody too yep thank you all for tuning in all right we'll catch yall later bye [Music]