Discover the Electronic Invoice Format for Banking that Streamlines Your Processes

Electronic invoice format for Banking

[Music] welcome back to Breaking Banks I am your host Rick King and of course breaking Banks is the number one Global fintech podcast I am uh coming to you from Dubai today but it's great to have back on the show a guest that we've had uh on previously it's been a couple of years now um certainly post pandemic um but but um varo money is a unique player in the ecosystem in that they're really the only Pure Play digital bank that went the denovo route of course uh they uh they raised their first round way back in 2016 they achieved their license in August of 2020 joining us in the studio virtually today is the founder and CEO of VAR money Colin w welcome back to Breaking Banks hey Brett it's great to be back and uh yeah it's been an eventful few years since you and I spoke so I look forward to uh sharing more on the journey yeah so um you know first of all give us a bit of an update about what's been happening um the last year or so um you know we there's a lot of really amazing activity um you know we we hear a lot about profitability of uh Challenger banks around the world now new bank has hit 100 million customers recently um so tell us about uh you know how things have been going at varu sure so well since we last spoke which I think was to the back end of 2021 so sort of a very different reality for our industry at that point um and uh it's been as you say a very uh very interesting period of time so I'd say first you know we uh we kind of had to navigate through the pandemic and then we it saw some real hyper competition that was uh kicking in on the back of a lot of funding uh there was a lot of activity in the market uh and then that come that came to a screeching halt in early uh 2022 when the funding markets stried up interest rates started to go up uh you saw some very high-profile bank failures with svb and First Republic and Signature Bank uh and then inflation started to spike and so it's been uh a lot for uh the industry to navigate through and I think from our perspective you know we took some prudent decisions in um early 2022 to sort of scale back sort of the grow at all cost model and focus on you know how do we improve our unit economics but how do we sustain investment in our technology platform building a product that was going to be hyper relevant to our customers and also leveraging uh the fact that we're we were the first and and and remarkably still the only uh fintech operating in the US with a denovo bank Charter and so so how do we scale up our lending activities thinking about how we monetize our deposits and and uh and taking advantage of of some of those uh kind of inherent capabilities from a business model perspective and so I I'm really proud to say you know here we are now a few years later uh we've had uh you know great great growth metrics you know we've been seeing sort of a a 30% ker on the revenue side we've brought our losses way down as you mentioned you focusing on profitability and getting there getting there soon um also looking at just the overall unit economics and diversifying the revenue streams while building a product that is really relevant to the consumer particularly as we look at uh this environment that the consumer that we serve which is pretty much paycheck to paycheck people who are trying to get by they're making a lot of difficult choices in their lives everything from you know what do they put in their grocery basket to do they get their children new clothes for school what are they going to do over the holidays you know are they able to take a vacation I mean you know a lot of these things that you know quite frankly manifested themselves in this election cycle in the US where people were just saying they're crying out for Change and they're using the only sense of power they have which is their vote uh we'll see how that all plays out but I say that it's it was really evidence that that consumers have been under uh acute Financial strain and so we've been working very hard to deliver the solutions that could be part of helping that that that very serious problem for many many uh everyday Americans and so we we could talk a lot more about uh some of the specifics there uh I mean um you know you you you mentioned at the the top of the show that you know you you're the only bank that went that denovo route and um you know I know I remember even way back in 2012 and 2013 when uh Josh um you know who who was the founder of of simple of course Bank simple became simple we used to regularly catch up on the phone and talk about when it was there was likely to be a a digital license or regulation emerged specifically for licensing a fintech bank or a fintech charter in the US and and I think a lot of people were holding out for that especially given the OCC tried to introduced it way back in 2014 and it sort of hasn't happened um so you know strategically your decision looks pretty smart right now to have gone the denovo route comparatively right well in hindsight for sure and you know at the time that we were considering the chartering options available to us uh the OCC was uh you know it was at a very nent level but was uh promoting this fintech Charter which never got off the ground there just wasn't the political will to to make that happen and so we were assessing different options and decided to go with the full OCC National Bank Charter which as you say you know in hindsight uh was a great move for us because if you look at what's happening particularly over the last couple of years um as Regulators have been um cracking down on whether it's you know third party risk management or BSA AML um you know or other aspects of of this operating model um you many of these sponsor banks have had had their wings clipped and and have been operating under some very intense regulatory scrutiny which has a has a KnockOn effect to the programs that they're supporting and so our ability to manage our own regulatory Destiny which was one of the core thesis is that you know we want to be able to have the whole end to endend from the the regulated Bank through the technology platform to be able to serve this massive T of consumers in the US that needed a better bank and you and I I think have a lot of uh sympatico thinking around that just given all the books you've written and and and um the work you've done in the space um and and so this was really the kind of thesis from the beginning and there were also other other foundational benefits around you know thinking about unit economics and not having to share interchange you know not having to uh you know sort of have a bin sponsor being able to fund your deposits off of sorry fund your lending activity off of lowc cost deposits and not having to go Source expensive Capital Market deposits and then really at the core of it is also the amount of innovation you can bring across the whole range of things that matter to customers whether it's uh around lowcost Free banking Solutions whether it's around moving money faster building credit accessing credit building savings habits and so the all of that you know was kind of why we did it and here we are now several years later and we've been operating as a as a Chartered Bank for four years now um you know I would say it was absolutely the right decision and but it has been hard for others who have attempted to go through that process for a variety of reasons now we'll see whether that changes over these next few years but uh the the barriers to entry have been quite High I I I mean even just your Capital adequacy requirements in the US comparative to say a fintech charter in the UK revolute just got their license in the UK finally you know as an example it's a lot more work you know um for for a US denovo denovo license of course we also see a lot of consolidation in the market you know you talked about SBB and and others so you know there's always an opportunity to pick up a you know a bank in in that consolidation mode but that's not necess that doesn't necessarily mean less work does it that's right and also if you're picking up a small kind of Community Bank you're not getting uh the tech uh you're not getting the advantage of having a really agile Tech driven platform um and and in the fintech side you've seen you know massive amount of consolidation across the space when you think of the number of players that were operating you know three or four years ago versus how many players are here today uh it's a much uh narrower plan playing field including movement you know on on the well we we took took on board some of your customers uh yeah no we grateful we were grateful to have your support as at part of that as as part of that process for our customers so it was great to have you uh you know step up and and um be a good partner for us in in that respect too but the teex stack I don't think that can be understated the importance of that clean Tex stack I've been writing a lot about agentic you know and uh you know generative Finance applications and you know of late of course and this is sort of a key element of capabilities here if you're going to sort of make this move into this sort of next generation of banking that's emerging right now the TCH STX so critical which ultimately means there's very few banks in the US that have the technical agility to sort of uh you know make those moves right now right this is one of the things that I'm actually most proud of I mean we've done a the team has done amazing work on a number of fronts but the Investments and the focus around building better technology to allow us to innovate at PACE and be able to introduce products that that really matter to our customers I mean there first it starts with you know just the proprietary data ownership allowing us to make better decisions being able to embed Ai and ml into pretty much every aspect of the customer life cycle right now from account decisioning to fraud detection to dispute adjudication to credit underwriting to customer servicing and and using that technology to have a real competitive Advantage with our with our customers uh We've also been able to uh build our own proprietary lending platform so we now have three lending products we've got our secured um credit card we've got our borrow Advance up to $500 which helps customers Bridge cash flow if they have a shortfall in in their till their next paycheck and now we have the Boral line of credit which is offering up to $2,000 which is really intended more for unexpected emergency expenses but all of that's be been built on our own proprietary lending Tech stack uh We've also now um migrated and we're in the process of actually rolling out a new app soon uh with where we were using react native to uh collapse the the um Android iOS web development so it used to every time we wanted to introduce something we'd have to develop it on three separate platforms so now this is a much more agile approach many the leading tech companies are are using these Technologies to be able to move much faster into Market uh we also announced earlier this year that we're going to be going on to the MasterCard platform so uh you know that's going to be exciting as well to partner with MasterCard they've done some really Innovative things globally and and looking forward to partnering with them so those investments in um technology and to your point being able to have an agile platform that allows us to respond quickly to changing customer needs changing Market dynamic Dynamics uh is a real competitive advantage and if you look at some of the other big players out there you whether it be new bank whether it be monzo or others U that have spent a lot of time investing in their technology to be able to have that nimbleness yeah this is the thing I this is why I love talking with the founders of of challenges you know um because you you first of all you haven't mentioned your core system once right you talk about your Tech stack you know you you're obviously fluent in the tech that that you're using and this is the culture you really need to be a technically agile Bank these days and like this is this is where you know we separate the men from the boys in sort of the next generation of banking stuff in terms of that technical agility you know the next question I was going to ask of course is where using AI but you just listed all those those elements out but I'd also say I'd also say the the women from the girls so there's a lot of very smart oh yeah okay women that are dri our ship so I want to make sure we keep an inclusive inclusive environment let's let's indeed but but one thing I would also add though from a cultural perspective you know what does these Tech what are these Tech Investments afford us so you know we have as we talked about faster product iteration we're able to go into an environment of continuous deployment we can do much more rapid experimentation I mean we are running hundreds of experiments all the time to really figure out what is working best uh for our customers for our marketing funnels uh so on and so forth uh you know our teams feel more empowered uh and that they feel like they actually can drive better customer outcomes because they've got the tooling they've got the technologies that they need to make better decisions and also it it results in enhanced security and risk management uh which right now and we should probably spend a little bit of time talking about fraud because it's just it's a global problem right now uh with with banks and financial institutions just given the the sophistication of some of the fraudsters out there so having a more modern tech stack allows you to fight that in a much more sophisticated way um and then the operational efficiencies you know so your ability to actually deliver at a very low cost uh is is largely determined by you know how automated you are and how how sophisticated your processes are yeah I don't think um even many Bankers are are really across the fact that you know the these are you know credit risk which you you've talked about lending and and we'll get into credit risk but gen General fraud management I'm I don't think many traditional Bankers are aware of how big the Gap is opening up between technology players and traditional players in terms of managing this stuff you know we see consistently now you you'll remember 10 years ago when uh you know we're both in the trenches trying to um you know uh build build our banks and you would hear consistently from the traditional you know segment of the market these guys are never going to be profitable you know they're they're only growing at at with big growth numbers right now because they're so small and they're never going to be a to manage risk as well as as we can and and we know that those those three elements are are demonstrably false now we know that Challenger Banks is a class you know at least the ones that get to a certain critical mass um are are performing better on all of those things the operational cash efficiency is clear um credit risk management um tends to be better because it's a data modeling problem um profitability is emerging across the segment right now but let's talk about some specifics on that in terms of the lending stuff are you guys seeing benefits scale now on the fraud and lending side because of the data models and because of the tech stack 100% I mean so let's talk about lending then we can talk about fraud but because two two um you important important areas that we focus on so on on the lending side you know we have taken a very prudent approach you know not sort of the Marcus like let's put $3 billion do of loans onto the books the first year without really knowing what we're doing and that didn't go so well but um but we're we have been very much around understanding our customer and our customer again as I mentioned is a paycheck to paycheck consumer you know probably more in the nonprime space and so being able to provide them with Solutions that are meaningful to their lives but where we're actually able to make the economics work and being able to lend into that segment is a huge competitive Advantage for us so we you know we are most of our lending is cash flow-based it's is based on really understanding the Dynamics and the relationship that we've established with the customer we're using machine learning models to assess how much we can lend to customers and and how to make sure that we're kind of very much at the top of that bill stack because customers are you know through making the right set of behaviors and building the relationship they become eligible for more credit and that becomes a very valuable Lifeline for the customer so you know to me having been in this business for so long you know understanding the fundamental dynamics of you know both capacity to repay and willingness to repay and being able to create solutions that customers rely on um in a responsible way because that's the other piece of it you know we also want to encourage customers to build small dollar savings so if they have an unexpected expense they can go to their savings first but when they need lending products that they know they can rely on us to provide those solutions for them and so it's been it's been a um a very thoughtful um considered approach but we're you know we're scaling up our balance sheet we're leveraging um the ability to have lowcost deposits to fund that balance sheet and we're leveraging the relationships that we're building with our customers to that are driving you know what I would say is probably some of the best arpo and contribution margin that you see in the market right now for a challenger Bank just given the depth of the relationship that we're building with these customers so so I'd say that the tech and the tech and the data and the ability to use machine learning models in effective ways has been fundamental for us to be able to grow and introduce new lending products and I feel like it's still very early Innings I mean I think about my previous employers you know Lloyd's was around for 300 years uh you know Wells Fargo and AMX over 150 years you know we're still just getting started and uh but I feel there's just that that prudent approach in terms of how to go about making those lending decisions particularly as we talked about in a in a very uh stressed Financial environment for many consumers and so I feel getting that right particularly as the larger banks are constricting their credit boxes so you know with the cfpb about to regulate uh fees and you know many of the and also kind of signs of a credit cycle many of the of the instit larger institutions are restricting who they'll lend to which makes our proposition all the more appealing to Consumers that are having a harder time accessing credit and also and we just actually did a we we have a press release coming out some research that we just did that's showing just how in so many ways discriminatory some of these backward-looking lending systems are in the US that are not taking into consideration people's you know daily paychecks and and and their their cash flow just looking at mistakes that may have occurred in the past and it's blocking people from being able to access more affordable credit and other solutions that could be available to them so so I feel like the whole Lending space is is ripe for further disruption and players like ourselves are are in a in a very uh good place don't even get me started on credit scores dude you know oh yeah yeah exactly we could have a whole conversation on that yeah I I relocated to uh Thailand recently which I guess guess you you know and uh you know um as part of the process of moving out of the states I got my power cut off um you know I I and and they said well we'll send out the uh the variant bill you know if there's any um you know at the end of that and I and they said you can you give us your forwarding address and I said well it's Thailand and they said well we can't send mail to Thailand so you'll just have to check and of course I woke up one day with you know my 840 credit score down to 650 because I hadn't reporting yeah wow right you know and it's like it's so um punitive the system you know and like but this is one of the things is you know we we know now that credit scores are actually not a good predictor of risk um well and we and we're proving that because you know our ability to lend to to customers that many of the banks that are using these traditional systems would not even lend to um and being able to do it profitably so um and I think that that that just is a big wh space opportunity for my perspective so what's the data model advantages here are you looking at cash flow or you know what is it that's uh giving you that ability to assess risk in a different way yeah well not only are we able to assess it but we're able to um help consumers understand how we're assessing it so we're also using machine learning tools in our app to help customers understand if you do XYZ type things like you know put certain amount of deposits in um you know your your payment behaviors U if you're taking small dollar loans that you're paying them back on time and so we help customers understand like these are some of the factors that will help you get access to Greater credit so if you go into our app today and you click on you know kind of your lending power your borrowing power it'll it'll actually help guide you through what is it going to take to be able to access more credit and and you know again some when we start to get into larger amounts we will do we will start to take in thirdparty data as well uh but it is a pretty reliable set of tools to help guide our customers in the types of behaviors that ultimately lead to responsible borrowing and at the end of the day you know we are a regulated institution we're a mission oriented institution that cares about improving the financial lives of our customers so we want to make sure that the borrowing decisions that we make don't get our customers caught into a cycle of debt uh and trying to help them actually kind of move out of that by also uh providing them with Free banking services and uh better Saving Solutions and budgeting Solutions so that they can manage their holistic Financial life you know I've never really been a fan of budgeting I don't think it works for most Americans but I do think Financial behavioral modification you know as you're talking about is uh is very effective far more effective um than budgeting just because budgeting takes discipline that most consumers don't have all you need to do is check check you know people's doing New Year's resolution of getting fitter to say that the discipline's a problem right yeah it's like going to the gym right everybody shows up in January and then never again but but what we found is really helpful is not to create sort of a separate sort of pfm tool but actually to embed into the experience so if you now if you look at our debit card or believe which is our secured credit card customers can track where their money is going by category kind of comparisons to previous month and it gives them just sort of an intuitive set of tools and they can also track track money coming into their accounts as well and the sources in which that's coming in and sort of a comparison of how is that uh you know against each month previously so it gives them sort of that basic set of building blocks and the other thing that we've invested in is uh taking what was essentially a dumb Ledger which you know most banks just simply have a list of transactions and turning that into much more of a smart Ledger that includes some of these visualizations but it also allows more transaction enrichment that that is helpful for customers so but it has to in my mind be embedded in the actual experience the day-to-day I mean our customers are logging into their apps 94 times a month I mean you know like I can't even tell you how many times I I've logged into my Wells Fargo app in the last year and it's like so there's super high engagement but it's creating these things in the moments that matter for customers and it's in the sort of Click stream of how they're managing their money and thinking about their money and for for folks that don't have a lot of money let me tell you they are all over it they they understand where every dollar is and they're trying to move money into into different sort of account structures to allow them to pay their bills this is where things like you know some of the pay by bank now is really interesting from a bill P solution perspective you know how they use their spending whether it's and and having intention around if I have a spending account that's helping me build my credit that's really valuable you know if I can put some money if I can park some money in savings I'm going to earn a you know an attractive interest rate I mean we're still paying 5% on the 5,000 up to $5,000 for it for our customers that's a that's a lot of of that's a high savings rate for people who typically don't even have a savings account and so so we're trying to kind of figure out how to manage the overall holistic experience we like to call it like the financial operating system for our customers daily Financial l so that all these pieces are put together in in a very intuitive way but this goes back to you know the advantages of being a tech player is that we can do this with a very consumer Centric mindset and have the tools and the building blocks to be able to assemble something that is highly intuitive for our customer that and that's the obvious play for where generative AI comes I think is is when you can talk to your embedded AI Financial coach and understand can I afford to go out for dinner with my friends on the weekend and things like that that that to me is the obvious application particularly as people get more and more concerned about stretching their money and and making it work in you know in inflationary environment and so forth which is you know um is something we've all experienced since uh the pandemic and really becoming that trusted partner for your customers so that they and and to your point you know through different Technologies through generative AI through you know we have a partnership with Amazon with our our bot technology which you know captures about 58% of all inbound context through having these interactions with customers it's more service oriented right now than sort of insights oriented but we're continuing to look at how do we embed more of that sort of set of solutions that help with the jobs to be done with the problems to be solved in a realtime uh basis for our customers that's fantastic let let's talk a little bit about some of the growth specifics obviously um you know one of the differentiations that we see in the digital scaling capabilities of banks like varro and other players in the space new bank and so forth is this ability to scale digital acquisition and you know keep that cost of acquisition U manageable how have you guys gone as as you know you've seen sort of the the The Fortunes of of this space over the last few years shift and and weave yeah I would I would say we're probably a little bit different from some of the players out there that you know I'm not going to tell you that we've got 50 million accounts yet I wouldn't mind being able to tell you that sometime soon uh we've taken a pretty rigorous approach to really managing our overall acquisition economics and looking at the different channels in which we're acquiring customers and how to do that as coste efficiently as possible and looking at sort of both you know a top of funnel as well as deep funnel metrics and making sure that we're bringing in customers that really stick and that are engaging with us the way we want them to engage so so I would say you know for I'm still feel pretty good about our growth I mean we've been we've more than doubled the size of the business since you and I last spoke we've been running at about you know sort of a 27% ker from a growth perspective so I mean it's still we're still uh definitely um you know growing this business and I do feel like varo is well placed now to with the product solutions that we have and the technology that we have to become a major Force inside the US banking industry and also with the focus on financial inclusion and and and bringing Financial opportunity to this huge Tam of consumers but we think about you know again using a diverse set of channels so or organic is you know probably about 50% of our acquisition just coming from those organic customers finding us um you know wanting our product hearing about us through others uh We've you know we test a number of different paid acquisition chall channels we have uh Solutions like borrow to anyone which is where any anyone on the borrow Network can send money to anyone with a US debit card and they can receive funds and then they learn about borrow and they can apply for borrow so it creates some Network effects we have a strong referral program we work with Affiliates so we've got a very diverse set of channels that we work with uh but I do feel that uh scaling in a responsible way particularly because once you join vorro then you have access to a wide range of solutions and um and including Credit Solutions and we want to make sure we're attracting the right audiences so so uh I say we we've taken a quite a disciplined approach to this to make sure that again the unit economics look great acquisition economics look great uh and I just feel like as I mentioned earlier we're in such early Innings from um you know taking the business now to becoming one of the bigger forces in the US banking industry so um on the LTV side um obviously the The Lending and credit has helped um how do you see um that engagement you're trying to Foster uh manifesting itself in terms of lifetime value yeah so and we continue to see our we look at uh we look at our arpus we look at our contribution margins we look at our duration for our customers but you know I would say that like our what we call our Northstar customers these are our primary banking customers you know we're generating um you know arpo you know north of $600 for these customers and for a for a mainstream C customer I mean like that's like you just don't really see that uh in other fintechs and and really even in traditional Banks and again that's D not having to pay $350 to get a checking account either like exactly exactly but this is also where for our standpoint it's important to look at those kind of payback periods and those ca to ltvs and make sure those acquisition economics are very strong and so so we spent a lot of time thinking about that and again it goes back to sort of the fundamentals of building a business like this it does require discipline from a p&l and a financial management discipline from a risk management perspective and understanding the risks that we're taking on and that we can responsibly manage them you know in our business in a way that we continue to build credibility with our regulators and U and then it's about you know creating the solutions that customers love and they're very grounded in the kind of core pain points that the customers are trying to solve on their daily lives so you've spoken openly about your intent to IPOs the business at some point in the future and so forth of course you know um I think that's a logical uh uh Target for every Challenger in the space um and you you you're you must be getting close to profitability now yeah so I I'd say that there's a couple things from that perspective you know on the IPO side you know one let's see what the markets do so you know we welcome the fact that Clara has now listed um you know I know chime has spoken openly about wanting to do an IPO um so you know we let a few others go first and see how they do but you know I'm hopeful that you know we'll start to see that IPO Market you know yeah exactly reopen and that that the stories that we have to tell are going to be very attractive to Public Market investors I also think from my perspective we probably have a little more Runway before we're ready the company itself is ready so you know to your point you know we do want to cross that profitability uh Milestone which I we see in the Horizon so we're excited about that so um you know I think once we're operating in as a profitable sustainable institution that's generating its own Capital that has a track record of you know repeatable predictable growth with strong unit economics strong acquisition economics facing into a very large Tam of customers I think we'll have a very compelling story so but you know whe I don't see it as a 2025 event but you know we're we'll keep all of our options open and um yeah I think that you know our our plan a is at some point to become a public market company and I you know I'm excited to go no no I was just say um I you know that makes sense you know I think um you know there's there's some metrics that that are fairly obvious as a precursor to that but um you know we talked about consolidation in the larger banking space which is only going to continue to speed up most likely could you see yourselves acquiring um you know some businesses we saw new bank acquire hyper leap recently for AI competency is this something something you consider so we think about it and and you know and we certainly haven't had any shortage of things that have come our way um I'd say that we've again taken a pretty disciplined approach in terms of how we would filter those opportunities so one criteria from my perspective needs to be that it's got to be acreative from a um in a number of different ways one is it's got to you know not we don't want to inherit someone else's burn rate so so from a capital and from a revenue and a profitability perspective it actually has to move us further along uh as as opposed to pulling us back and and consuming Capital so I'd say that that would be one thing the second is you know could it be a source of uh distribution so either there's customers that are similar to ours with similar products that could be converted on our platform or are they offering products that are on our road map that we haven't built yet that might be an interesting adjunct that could add on to the product set that's aligned with our road map or do they offer some sort of a unique access to customers whether it's through embedded employer relationships or third party relationships that could open up new channels of distribution so so we look at kind of all those Dynamics and so I think that you know at some point would we you know consider consolidating you know I wouldn't certainly wouldn't rule it out I'd say for us right now we've got you know a very clear set of priorities that we're executing against and obviously turning to profitability is going to be super important so I doubt that we would probably do anything prior to that but but we keep a close eye on the market and and the Dynamics in the market and there I think there will continue to be opportunities out there speaking of which you know we've just had a pretty Dynamic uh change in Administration in the United States and uh you know um I think we can see with the consent orders and the lack of a fintech charter that Regulators have not been particularly friendly to fintech banks in the United States compared with um you know the G20 and Eurozone um markets that all pretty much have fintech Charters um but do you think what do you think the change of posture if any might be from the Trump Administration in respect to the role that fexs in generally play in the market yeah well I definitely think you're going to see more Pro bus prot Tech um you know how that translates into you know actual changes in policies and Regulatory structures and prioritization inside the regulatory agencies remains to be seen uh but I do think you're going to see more of a Tailwind for things like you know bringing in new Charters driving more technical Innovation um and so I do expect that you'll start to see some changes uh certainly in the next year or two all right so then um you what's up next for varo the IPO is a little bit off but what what are you working on the next 12 month we are just plugging away as I mentioned you know we're launching our new react ative net react to Native app sorry I can't speak this morning and uh we've got the MasterCard migration we've got a number of feature enhancements just to continue to create the the best possible banking savings Lending Solutions for our customers uh so there's a lot on the road map uh and uh we're we're excited to just continue to lean into this opportunity where as I you know I start we started this conversation that we're in a cultural moment right now you know customers are feeling a lot of financial stress uh that we want to be part of the solution and bring something into their lives that helps them feel more control helps them see their Financial Health improving um and uh we think that this is uh this is a very unique time for for players like us as well as you know we've come so far from a both a product and a technology perspective over these last few years that uh we're just excited to lean in absolutely well Colin thanks for joining us on the show again for those that want to find out what's happening with uh varo um you know as as a as a business um and follow you particularly where can uh where can people go yeah you could always visit us at borrow money.com which is our website and we also have you know Learning Centers and blogs and other things that are available from a Content perspective uh and you can also follow me on LinkedIn um and uh yeah then appreciate the opportunity Brett to catch up and uh and to chat about all these topics there's a lot happening in our industry right now well all I'm going to ask you is when you when you are ready to announce that you've hit that profitability Mark make sure you come back on and tell us okay I sure will there something we can celebrate okay absolutely all right sounds great [Music]