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Igst invoice format for Public Relations

B namaskar Namar how are you Namar good afternoon sir good afternoon G good afternoon how you good afternoon rajes from Lana yeah hi rajes G good afternoon good afternoon lud coming tomorrow rajes G the moment he said he had 4 4:30 train I said he's coming to [Laughter] Punjab I'm coming Lana let's meet tomorrow then okay done uh we have just opened for the general public since we have got some 700 odd people let them just come in it's only 120 com in not an issue not an issue I'm I'm I've joined whenever you say I will stop thank you so much uh where is [Music] Shankar can you can you open your mic and be unmute please uh Mr Shankar shind is the chairman of the Federation and and um uh I I thought of introducing him you know viin shanash shind is the chairman Kik panoli is our head of our customs Wing he takes care of it Vino Sharma is the general secretary you know vipin vipin does not require any introduction Shashi hea rajes you just spoken to and uh Vijay Kumar who is a past chairman and um who else is there uh Mr nraa is one stalber who takes care of our all our EDI problem ice gate keep troubling and he is the one who takes care of it so this is the office bearers team um this is a you know it's a trip FAA is a national body uh consisting of 6,500 members and uh whatever the best we can do we are doing uh I I don't think anybody would need any introduction about Mr Bimal Jan once you listen to him yes and honestly speaking probably a school teacher or a college Prof could not have explained the textbook in so much of a simplistic manner so I am I'm sure everybody would enjoy this session and to his credit he has got 167 lectures in YouTube whosoever wants to learn more about the GST please learn it from there and it's a he's a great auditor he's a child accountant company Secretary of course LLB and he does on the 194 only okay he practi will get into the introduction because you'll have to repeat the introduction no it's all right it's all right because you know it's 2: p.m. yeah so for your we have to give one special session for introduction only you know thank you shank G I think Mr Rama was taking this time so that you know participants can join in that was his objective that's the reason he was delting like that no no it's uh it's not that uh in fact he has high regards for you and he ensured that you are in the board and V also Ure thanks v g for that kind Taking It Forward because this is first time we are meeting but surely you'll enjoy associating with trip FAA and its members and uh we will keep on regular touch but today we have this 2:00 session so R you have a flow of the session so then you it becomes in that yeah yeah I think it is you started shanka uh okay then you you have started entering 23 I think I think good afternoon J thank you for joining with us of course uh uh Rama briefed about you for that thank you for I think it will be definitely very useful for our members and uh from October 1 onwards lot of rers and custom Brokers are very very eager to whether because okay Monday cbic chairman called for a meeting for a discussion but what will be the outcome nobody knows but uh definitely your interaction and will be very very useful for us and uh I think shangar you can wait for one or two minutes I think most of the people are joining now I think uh if you don't mind you can start after one or two minutes yeah but the FL just R just to add you know he's also chairman of indirect taxes Committee of PhD Chambers of Commerce you know chairman of corporate advisory committee of IPM group of Institutions member of indirect texes ofam you know all these places you know he's the one you know who's you know I keep listening to him in PhD you know that's why I said you must come and address our MERS you know and he very kindly agreed to it you know when I requested him don't bin don't worry about and definitely I will make task easier for all the you know participants today I will try my best and give my best so that all the confusion whatever there as on date will go away except the representation part which for which we have to go to the government and speak to them so we will jot down those pointers also today for you know taking up for discussion with the government Authority right thank you so much thank you I opened up the webinar for the entry uh wein will just wait for some time for members to enter but he has to go he has to leave exactly at 4:00 you know we should not wait time bin G I will leave at 3:00 3:00 sorry I thought 4:00 3:00 train at 4:30 yeah yeah I think we should stop joining no no the B the thing is we should have started little early so members would have been on board by now you know we started so you know we can see that the increase in numbers going up so let at least it get stable so at a stage where it gets stable I think so we should start see the numbers of participant got now to 300 and now it's going in so once it's start registration is 717 I'm coming tomorrow evening my morning my morning session there and then evening I'm taking band Bharat and coming back good good maybe next week we it's a beautiful train actually vat yes yes so we can get it started let partipants join in you know i Shankar please start the thing because yeah thanks ra first of all a warm welcome to all the participants the office beers keynote speaker Bimal JG thank you for being here with us we would like to hear you because our whole industry is Disturbed with the first of of October and we are looking forward that how we can take the challenges whether it is in for us or is against us or whether we should live with it Whatever It Is without taking much of a time your introduction has been shared but we will have Ram introduced you also and uh we have all the sectors air sea land Road Transport so internationally how this Freight is going to impact is a very much important maybe there are some different understanding statewise or even the region wise also but at least we should have a common practices all across our logistic Service Pro that is our major aim so irrespective what the interpretation comes tomorrow with our understanding common understanding how we should have the real best practices we should adopt that and then we can also have a representation to government as to what is a good way of doing into this implementation of the GST with this I open up the session and request you to take over thank you sir uh thank you chairman uh good afternoon to everybody um vimal s good afternoon it's my pleasure to to um introduce Bim J who is Authority on the GST and he keeps a close guard on the changes which are coming and explicitly uh and he's also very vocal in the for the changes which are coming to the industry from the industry perspective as well from the government perspective B J is a Char accountant company secretary and the law graduate he does his um apart from he being the chairman of pyam PhD ET Etc has won lot of s and awards there is no reason for him to not to get it and also I would request all the participants to keep their notebook and pen and please listen to him and keep noting down what he's saying very importantly which will be very good dant welcome sir D mulani is going to take over as a chairman from Shankar shind we have a legacy of taking past chairman previous chairman and chairman elect so dant is going to be and one of the very AR in the Customs without Much Ado Bim sir I would request you to kindly start the session thank you so much at the outset let me thank all the managing committee members without naming all due regards and respect to them on very important changes pertaining to fret forwarding industry ocean fret and air fret effective from October 1 2022 let me tell you the background we all know that exemption which was available till 30th September 2022 is not being continued so exemption which was available as per serial 20a and 20b of notification number 9 obl 2017 is not extended thereby so ocean Freight or Air Freight for export now chargeable to GST that is what the context in that context we are going to discuss everything today now first question which is emerging in the market what happened why this exemption is not further continued then the background whatever we got even I'm talking to the top most you know cbic officials what I'm being told earlier this exemption was given on pretext that refund under GST was not smooth there was no mechanism proper mechanism available so exporter we are not getting their refund on time to ease the process they have given this exemption exemption on Ocean Freight and Air Freight for export now since their refund mechanism is now smoothing and refund they are giving within time of 60 days in most of the cases that is the reasion this exemption which was available till 30th September 2022 is now being withdrawn thereby now GST going to be liable on Ocean frit and air fret we have to see the implication in the hands of siipping line fret for water Indian customer who is exporter of goods and sometime we raise the invoice to foreign customer to overseas import or for an agent we will try to discuss all the modalities and implication of this changes which is now going to be effective from October 1 2022 so first Factor Why government has not extended because they are saying exporter will get the refund and refund is coming smooth let siipping line and fret forward charge GST and this Indian exporter takes the credit and cck clim the refund but Indian exporter is again saying that there would be blockage of my working capital refunds are not coming on time but government perspective they are giving refund on time that is what their pretext for withdrawing this exemption having said that next question will definitely be important very recently honorable prime minister has launched National logistic policy and this National logistic policy mean to provide that age of business will come for the export and import now when we are talking about e a business and when we are talking about this money gets blocked in the hands of Indian exporter maybe 60 days maybe 90 days till the time they get refund definitely this is the area of concern and this should be our representation to the government that they should look into having said that now this exemption gone what is the way forward now there are three party involved one is the siipping line one is a fright forwarder and one is the Indian exporter or can be the party outside India overseas customer including your foreign agent so we will discuss this transaction at length first of all what is the GST rate applicable for ocean fret and air fret for ocean fret it is 5% and for air fright it is 18% and where from it is coming you have to go to the IGS rate notification 8 O 2017 and you have to go to serial number nine Roman 2 and HSN is provided 9965 transportation of goods in a vessel 5% GST rate and air comes under residue category 18% GST rate second question will come if Indian shipping line charging 5% on Ocean fret to the Fret forward where the credit would be available in the hands of fright forward this is the question pan India So my answer to of you would be that if we look at this rate notification which I referred 8 2017 under igst rate notification it is saying credit is available credit is only B only restricted on Goods only on Goods credit AG available and when we talk about the shipping line giving services to fret forward fret forward intern giving services to IND customer who exporter these are all input services so in Crystal Clear terms ocean fret 5% GST with ITC available on all input services and capital goods what credit is not available only on Goods we know that in our industry we are majorly into service sector and our inward Supply is only inward services and major GST component on inward is on services and for that credit is available so first of all let's have Clarity and no confusion per se and I given you the notification number r with serial number nine Roman 2 for the ocean frit and Roman 7 for the air FR input tax credit available even though you are charging 5 % on Ocean Freight I would like to have answer in a chat box that those who are participating they can write yes that they have understood this Factor so that Clarity emerges that you got this point very clear and no doubt exist so you can write down in a chat box at least yes will go for me good so that I get an idea that you're understanding my point all right so this part is clear now now coming back what we were doing prior to 1 October and what we need to do Post 1st October 2022 prior to 1st October 2022 what we were doing and that's we have to understand we were raising bill of Supply because ocean fret was Exempted and then we were raising tax invoice for all other charges with 18% that's the practice we were following prior to First October 2022 so Bill of supply for ocean fright being Exempted and for all other incidental charges we were raising taxable invoice and charging 18% this was the practice we were following what happened from first October 22 what is the change we have to do in our raging of invoice now as I clearly said ocean fret 5% all other charges will be 18% but there's one important issue which we need to understand whenever we are talking about ocean fret we have to look at the place of Supply what is the place of supply so I'm starting with an example and I would be looking for the answer let's say I'm a fret forwarder in Maharashtra fret forwarder in Maharashtra and my customer is also in Maharashtra we both are in Maharashtra in the state of Maharashtra now fret forwarder earlier used to generate bill of supply for ocean fright being Exempted and tax invoice for all other charges 18% GST so there are two document which was raised prior to First October 2022 what is the change that's what we need to understand I've said ocean fright chargeable to 5% GST now please tell me and this is the answer I'm looking in a chat box please write down fright forwarder is in the state of Maharashtra and Indian customer who exporter of goods again in the state of Maharashtra transaction would be intrastate or Interstate I'm only looking for the answer please tell me in the chat box intra state or interestate if it is intra then cgst and sgst if it is Interstate then igst so next confusion in the trade age what should be charged it is cgst sgst being intrastate or igst being Interstate my answer to all of you would be for ocean fret now you will raise tax invoice with 5% GST and it will always be Interstate Supply Interstate Supply even though you're raising invoice to a party Indian customer who exporter within the same state and why is Interstate You' be asking this question to me right so we have to go back to place of Supply provision section 12 subsection 8 of igst act it is being stated under the Provo Pro is saying whenever you are exporting so place of Supply would be destination of goods so you are undertaking this transportation of goods in a vessel and ultimate destination is Germany so you're raising invoice to your Indian customer Indian exporter within India within same state of Maharashtra normally should be interestate but place of Supply Provo as per section 12 subsection 8 place of Supply is destination of goods Germany so location of supplier is Maharashtra and place of Supply is Germany and transaction is Interstate as per section 7 subsection 5 CL a of igst act even though you're raising invoice to your customer within the state of Maharashtra so first Clarity I gave 5% with input tax credit on all input services and capital goods except Goods which is input second Clarity for ocean threat as against Bill up Supply now you will raise tax invoice with 5% GST and that would be interstate and place of Supply would be mentioned other territory code would be 9797 code would be 9797 so this is for ocean Freight what happened for all other charges which you were raing tax invoice and charging 18% is there any change I'm looking for the answer for the next invoice which is the separate invoice we were raising prior to 1st October 2022 we were charging 18% right is there any change after first October 2022 my answer to all of you would be there is no change you will continue to Levy 18% now what is the important here to understand for tax invoice for all other charges all other charges which is not related to transportation of goods in a vessel whether this transaction would be intrastate or Interstate for ocean Freight I've explained to you even though you're raing within the state but transaction will be Interstate igst place of supply could be other territory code is 97 but what happened for all other charges intra or inter I'm looking for the answer you can write down in a chat box because chat box is life I'm reading the chat box those who are writing answer in a question answers box request them to answer in a chat box so that uh we get a Clarity that yes we are understanding the issue so that would be interest cgst and sgst Le beable cgst and sgst Le beable hope I'm clear to all of you am I clear to all of you if clear then say yes in the chat box I will move to next point then so that we get you know more of the changes whatever we are discussing having said okay I saw the answer coming yes in a chat box those who are answering in a question answer box my request to them they can answer in a chat box that will help me okay lot of you are answering in a chat box okay chat box is disabled okay there is there is a problem I requested Sagar just kindly look into this aable the chat box so that people reply in that please I enabled it sir okay is it enabl now if not let me look at the question answer box not an issue so what is the clarity I given I I'm repeating again from 1st October 2022 ocean Freight 5% Air Freight 18% oan of ITC with the input tax credit available when you're applying 5% on Ocean fret my answer is yes you will get credit on input service and capital goods Goods only credit is barred on Goods when you're applying a team person quite obvious you will get complete ITC of input input services and capital goods then I discuss that what we were doing prior to First October for ocean fret we were raising bill of supply and for all other charges taxable invoice with 18% rate change from 1st October 2022 now you will raise two separate invoice two separate invoice in place a bill of Supply there would be tax invoice for ocean Freight 5% but this will always be Interstate Supply igst and place of Supply would be other territory code is 97 and for all other charges you raising tax invoice prior to 1 October you will continue to raise same invoice but here it would be intrastate Supply so I given you this answer as well now coming to the third component which is somewhat I have come across and I'm being told some problem with the gstm network and listen very carefully Indian sipping line going to charge 5% to fr forwarder with the Fret forwarder get the credit or not I have said he will get the credit because it is input service for him and then fret forward are again going to charge 5% to the Indian customer who is a exporter of goods this is the transaction we are discussing the point which I'm discussing here it is related to GST and common portal if Indian shipping line of fright forwarder raging invoice to Indian customer within the state of Maharashtra we are mentioning interstate and place of Supply other territory there one restriction on this common portal unless place of Supply the same of recipient state I'm again repeating unless place of Supply is same of recipient State and recipient state is Maharashtra but you are mentioning other territory then this credit is not Auto eligible it is not reflecting per se and this is bottleneck on gstn common portal please tell me have you seen everyone have you seen this problem exist you can write down uh in a question answers box so Mr J V taker has said yes it is a problem so this is the challenge which is coming out then you would be asking a question to biml J biml G igst charged by Indian sipping line of rate for water to Indian customer whether credit is available in the chain Indian siipping line to Freight forwarder Freight forwarder to Indian customer who exporter to me credit is available and system can't block they can't do that so this is the part which I discuss practical problem but to my mind credit is available and If this bottleneck is there on GST and common portal they need to correct it second matter of representation so from triple FAA I'm also creating representation point to be represented to the government you want me to Levy tax because Brit was Exempted so there was no problem but now since it is taxable from first October 2022 and I'm mentioning other territory because of place of Supply provision section 12 subsection 8 of igst act get me a credit and this credit should be available because this is input service that is not being bought second Point coming to the next component which is little critical and you have to give a thought to it and I would be looking for the answer from all of you this 5% GST rate for ocean Freight and the entry the relevant entry is saying transportation of goods in a vessel I do un understand sipping line is engage in transportation of goods in a vessel but what is the position of fret forwarder they're only buying and selling space on shipping line they are only buying and selling space on a ship so are they really engaged in transportation of goods in a vessel this was disputed even in service tax regime and this may be disputed in GST regime as well and Department can litigate the matter saying that this 5% which you're applying Freight forward which is applying 5% on H in Freight is not available to him because he is not engaged in transportation of goods in a vessel it is only shpping line so this is one area of concern so thereby department will say it is 18% in the hands of freight forward I'm giving food for thought I need Clarity third representation from the government if forward to start start charging 18% to Indian customer I agree Indian customer can take credit and claim refund but that much money gets blocked they must clarify this issue otherwise also some of the Fright forwarders step into the S of siipping line by way of multimodel by way of house will everything is being presented by them so fret forwarder getting into the shoes of shipping line then no no problem no challenge you can always say that I'm engaged as a transportation of goods in a vessel otherwise if you're are only buying and selling space as a fret forwarder then this litigation may come up so this is the right time third representation for triple fi that they must represent to the government and government must clarify whether it is Indian shipping line of fre forwarder it would be 5% uniform I've seen certain documentation which has flown in WhatsApp group and lot of us have seen that ocean Freight irrespective of fact shipping line or fit forward we all are saying five person but I have created this distinction because of this legal term in that rate notification hope I'm clear to all of you can I have yes in a chat box or in question answers box so that uh so if you can say yes in the chat box that will make my task easy okay perfect all right so we have understood the situation in the hands of Indian siipping line and Freight forwarder now we have to go back in the S of Indian customer what is the position in the case of Indian Customer because ultimately this fight person on Ocean Freight is being charged charged to Indian customer who is exporter of goods what what he will do he will take credit that credit is available to Indian exporter and what is the option available to this exporter of goods he will have two option either he can export goods under Lut later of undertaking without payment of igst and claim refund of input and input services so whatever this Indian export has paid GST on inward Supply on input and input services that refund will come in the hands of Indian exporter and he can execute Lut later of undertaking second he can follow a method of igst Route payment of igst Route so what happened this Indian exporter can follow igst route payment of igst route and thereby get the refund of igst as well so for Indian exporter this credit is available refund of ITC on input and input services or igst is available only problem which is being raised by Indian exporter AG my working capital get blocked and the time period as much as longer time period that is what the worry for them and that's what they are raging concern and they're saying this is creating a problem we are not getting smooth refund had it been smooth refund we would have you know absorbed this particular component but if there's three months blockage then you can understand the the interest opportunity cost on this blockage of money that is what the worry has expressed by the Indian exporter please tell me have you understood this component say yes and no in a chat box a Yes means I will get clarity that you're getting my point okay very clear so thank you very much so a lot of you are saying yes so I'm moving to next part now there may be a case that uh fright forwarder instead of instead of and before I move to this point let me come to this point Indian exporter one component for Indian exporter as well Indian exporter some you know they have two option of exporting Goods CIF cost insurance and freight and fob cost insurance and Freight is applicable only when he's getting Services of Transportation either through Indian shipping line or through foreign shipping line so he is making CIF cost insurance and Freight so this component I've explained to all of you had it been fob so Freight transportation is being Bor by ultimate customer customer oversease customer oversease customer or for an foreign agent now listen very carefully and you should get clarity on this Indian shipping line and fright forwarder instead of charging fret component to Indian customer who exporter now they are charging this uh they're providing this uh transportation of goods in a vessel to a foreign party to a foreign customer or foreign agent sometime possible doable but question will come with a GST liable when this invoice is being raised to the foreign customer or foreign agent with GST Le be a or not here I would like to draw your atten on export of services provision what is export of services provision under GST law section 2 subsection 6 of igst act there five condition need to be satisfied for export of services supplier must be located in India Indian shipping line of fright for water located in India recipient must be outside India which can be foreign customer or foreign agent outside India place of Supply must be outside India yes place of Supply is outside India when we look at section 13 subsection 9 of igst act where recipient is outside India then place of Supply is destination of goods so in my example I said these goods are destined to Germany so destination is outside India destination of goods when you're raising invoice to your foreign customer or foreign agent you are getting paid in convertible for an exchange which is one of the condition for export of services that you should get money in convertible for an exchange and last condition that supplier and recipient should not be merely establishment of distinct person should not be merely establishment of distinct person so they are not so merely establishment of establishment of distinct person means head office and Branch relationship which is not the case so Indian shipping line or fret forwarder registered in India raising invoice to foreign customer or foreign agent outside India place of suppli outside India get paid in convertible foreign exchange now I given you the example and say the provision also is it going to be export of services now please tell me yes and no say yes and no in a chat box that yes it is export of services okay so export of services all of you are saying now in a chat box yes yes yes majorly export of services so what is the option available in the hands of Indian sipping line and fight forwarder same option Lut or payment of igst Route you can follow alut route without payment of igst and then you can get the refund of input and input services or you can follow the igst route that's what you need to follow when it is export of services can I see yes in a chat box that it is clear now to all of you so I'm trying to make it you know simpler for all of you so that you can get the clarity now there are certain when we talk about Sanga J is there he's talking about rule 4243 please try to appreciate another change another change listen very carefully another change and we must have Clarity and no doubt I'm repeating again so that Clarity emerges Indian shipping line charging 5% to Freight forwarder Freight forwarder charging 5% to Indian customer right this is from October 1 2022 everything is taxable so 5 person on Ocean frit only condition no credit on Goods no credit on Goods so when we Avail the credit we have three component input which is a Goods input services and capital goods I have clearly said when you're applying 5% on Ocean fright credit on input is not available so you should not take any credit you should not you Avail credit on input service and capital goods only but prior to 1st October 2022 since ocean fright was Exempted so there was common credit and we were following the reversal mechanism in terms of rule 42 and 43 but post 1 October 2022 since you're not availing any credit on Goods then whole credit is pertaining to a taxable unless otherwise you have something s for exemption Exempted Supply to my mind then it would be for taxable and then rule 4243 application will not come unless you have any component of exam supplies having said that let me move to next query and next important aspect and very much interesting here we have discussed that Indian shipping line and Indian Freight forwarder raising invoice to Indian customer or to overseas customer or overseas agent but there may be a case that Indian customer has engaged the foreign shipping line foreign sipping line or foreign agent for transportation of goods in a vessel so who is providing Services foreign shipping line or foreign agent to Indian customer so please tell me whether GST Le be aable under import of services because supplier is outside India recipient is in India which is Indian customer Indian exporter with a reverse charge RCM applicable in the hands of Indian customer please tell me yes and no and that is what I will understand to what level we all are prepared so so lot of yes and no coming in and my answer my answer to all of you no RCM no RCM applicable section two subsection 11 of igst act three condition need to be satisfied for import of services supplier must be outside India fore an agent and foreign shipping line outside India recipient must be in India which is in India and place of supplies should be in India but is it in India because it is destined to Germany it is not satisfying thereby no RCM on this particular case please tell me am I clear to all of you including Mr Rama am I clear to all of you no RCM so say yes in a chat box that it is very much clear to all of you all right perfect perfect so It's a Good Vibration coming in this binar that we are getting Clarity one after another let's take another example another example important example Indian shipping line of fright forwarder providing services to SJ unit and sej unit only mean for you know export so what happened being Indian shipping line of fright forwarder are you going to charge GST to sej unit I'm looking for the answer say yes and no please tell me can you say that whether GST Le beable it is zero rated GST leviable but it is zero rated zero rated means there are two transaction for zero rated supply of goods or services which is export of goods or services and second when you're supplying toj unit or developer zero rated once it is zero rated you can follow a mechanism of Lut so such Indian shipping line or fret forwarder can follow alut mechanism and no GST charge but whatever GST paid on inward site refund would be available or IG roote then whatever igst charge that would be refunded back to us hope I'm clear so I look yes in a chat box so that perfect so say yes in the chat box that this part is also clear to all of you all right thank you all right now I'm getting one more pecular query in the trade that we have three transaction right one is uh date of shipment when shipping is being done and shipment is being considered only with the export General manifest and for import it is import General manifest that is the real transaction being considered yes my goods are now destined to outside India export General manifest by sipping line now here there are three transaction data provis region of services date of invoice and date of receipt of money so there may be a case that your sment is being done prior to 1 October 2022 but you're rating invoice after 1st October 2022 and you're being paid after 1st October 2022 so question will come to your mind uh whether it would be Exempted because prior to 1 October 2022 it was Exempted so is it going to be Exempted or taxable because shment is already gone prior to 1 October it is only invoice raised and payment received after on or after 1 October so those question would be coming to your mind right so please tell me what is the answer the question which I asked you that se is done is gone prior to 1 October 2022 your aging invoice post 1st October 2022 and getting paid after 1st October 2022 please tell me GST leave beable say yes and no with the GST lebia bill please tell me so I'm looking for the answer so lot lot of you are answering yes liable lot of you are giving certain component that this is can be done in other way around okay listen now very very carefully listen to me now whenever there is change in rate of tax Whenever there is change in rate of tax section 14 of cgst Act is important and you have to look at two out of three two out of three I'm giving you some basic principle two out of three what is two out of three first you have to understand three what is three date of provision of services date of invoice and date of receipt of money if two out of three it's prior to 1 October Exempted and two out of three post 1st October taxable that is the concept you should keep to your mind so you tell me in a chat box at least this part is clear then I will explain with some more example so say yes at least that you understood this part this part is clearly understandable to all of you okay okay all right so this this is what I'm getting answers so now listen very carefully and try to give the I'm giving three example to you now and we'll look for the answer first example date of provision of service and date of invoice prior to 1st October but you are being paid after 1st October you are only getting payment after first October with the GST Le be aable say yes and no yes and no and I given you the how to calculate so that you can always say that uh so Mr dama GST liable what do you say GST not liable GST not liable two out of three happening prior to 1st October no GST let's take another example shipment is done prior to 30th prior to 1st October but invoice raised after 1st October you are being paid after 1 October with the GST Le a b please tell me so I'm looking for the answer yes leviable GST going to be leved perfect perfect okay now last example with little litigation last example with little litigation that you have done the shipment prior to 1st October and you got paid prior to 1st October but you're raging invoice after 1st October please tell me GST liable or not liable I'm just asking and looking for the answer if we look at two out of three if we look at two out of three should not all right just because invoice is raised after 1 October but shipment is already being done and I got paid prior to First October it should not be chargeable to GST should not be even though I'm raising invoice after first on or after first October so this is what I wanted to explain to all of you well done so lot of you are getting my poins very clear that is a remarkable one and now let me touch base certain component of import and we can discuss all this thing you know air import by air when you're importing it is Exempted Only The Ocean one and ocean again we got two components CIF and fov value CIF you know that supreme court judgment moit mineral case that not chargeable Freight component is separately not chargeable but fov definitely GST going to be leved under reverse charge so this was on on import component so I've given from my side a Clarity on the pointers which it changes effective from October 1 2022 for ocean frit and air frit for export and have touchbased everything which I thought which is concerning to the industry now I want to ask moderator Mr Rama and binji to ask any query I can take query for 10 15 minutes and then we will sum up today webinar thank you so much for your Clarity in explaining of the ocean Freight and Air Freight which was actually bothering our industry there is one question which has come into the chat box is if the destination charges when it is paid overseas and it is um uh to the shipper when it is charged is it GST is leviable or not the payment is coming in foreign currency and the bill is going outside India but service is being given to the Indian exporter now to frame your question once again Mr Rama who is a supplier in this case the the freight forwarder in India Freight forwarder in India he's providing services to whom Indian customer Indian customer Indian customer right now what is your question in the case of DDP and ddu the entire charges of the overseas is paid by the overseas agent and it is build a recipient is the Indian Freight parer and he builds to back to his shipper whether GST isable or not so Mr Rama quite clear that I'm raging invoice to the overseas agent and I'm being paid by overseas agent am I right yes am I right yes and destination of goods is also outside India I covered in my example everb that when Indian shipping line or Freight forwarder providing services to foreign agent and foreign agent is paying the money right it is export of services because destination of goods is also outside India provided you meet all other condition like supplier located in India recipient outside India place of Supply outside India paid in convertible foreign exchange and we are not merely establishment of distinct person to my mind we can term as export thank you so much VI G from your end the air air import or exports you have anything yeah you know thank you very much it was really interesting to understand everything now there are two questions which I would like to ask you know one is that if we provide service to you know to an Indian exporter the goods are originating outside India like say you know from China to desh you know and the billing is done in India to the to the exporter now what will be the case you know for this this type of contion this is the first question now second question is that the airlines you know when they build to the agents you know can can we go one by one so that we get a Clarity okay so fright forwarder is providing services to Indian customer yeah for the transportation of goods let's say taken from Korea to us yes this is your question am I right yes yes from Korea to us us or anyway yeah so when it is Korea to us I need to look at section uh 12 subsection 8 for the region because both supplier and recipient are located in India oh supp Supply Supply the fre for water fre for water yeah fight for is in India and recipient is Indian customer right yeah service also recipient you he serviceing basically so they both are located in India so I will look at 128 and 128 comes with the Provo that whenever there's a supply outside India then destination of goods outside India right right so it is from Korea to us destination outside India right but being both are located in India hence transaction would be igst Interstate Supply okay okay I hope I'm clear to all of you please I I will look the answer in a chat box from other person what Mr bippin G asked I given the answer to him say at least yes in the chat box so that I get a Clarity that yes you understood this aspect well okay okay next now now the next question is that you know like we in the airf you know we give shipments to the airlines now the airlines instead of building separate invoices they build us together in one sales report you know maybe 20 a bills or 50 a bills and then on the on the sales report they mention the amount the fight amount which is on the paper you know like 150 rupees my actual rate with the airline is you know 100 rupees now are they you know they should raise individual invoices or how they should charge me GST whether they should charge it what is written on the air bill or what is you know my agreed rate with them because if my agreed rate is with them 100 rupees and on the paper they showing 150 rupees you know the the GST if they charge me on 150 then then I won't be able to claim from the shipper because I'll be selling at 110 so my advice to you would be the best option could be individual invoice with the agreed rate that should be my advice otherwise to create audit Trail and documentation to support the contention will not be there so that's for the now last question is on the master prepaid house collect you know we as straight forwarders we do consolidation you know we the shipper gives them on fob basis you know the shipment the Fate is collect now we consolidate the shipment and we make it master air Bill prepaid and house Ser will collect to our foreign agent you know and we bu it to our foreign agent and the payment comes from there you know in in foreign exchange now there are two question in it one is that there are component of rate as well as other fob charges like clearance and all other charges also now we are building everything to overseas now you know is it all without GST or there is other charges with Services which are provided which we are providing in India you know for custom clearance or transport or any other thing whether that is is taxable number two is the adjustment you know let let me clarify let me clarify but transportation part fret component which you are charging from your foreign counterpart that you may term as export of services for the simple reason under Section 2 subsection 6 but whatever other incidental charges pertaining to Goods then my apprehension section 13 subsection 3 will come into the picture of igst act where goods are made available by the recipient and you're performing function on such Goods that is being considered as it performed in India hence GST leave beable on this transaction it will be that's what looks like because see what happened uh you have said there are two component of your transaction one is the transportation through a fret component another one is all other incidental charges for the handling purpose right so all other handling charges may fall under Section 13 subsection 3 because goods are made available by the recipient yeah on which you're performing your function yeah but these are only avel on the goods we are not doing we are providing Services now services are agreed agreed but your services on Goods getting Goods cleared get handling of those goods so it's a service oh service pertaining to goods made available try to understand bin G try to make let me give you an example so that he can get more clarity Hundai want to get their engine tested in India okay I'm a testing agency in India so Hundai is getting me engine delivered either through Indian counterpart to my premises and I'm performing my testing function on that engine so I'm providing service only whether that would be export of services no 13 subsection 3 clearly says that I'm performing function on the goods made available by the recipient so please wake up call I'm just alerting you and giving you the way forward you are performing service I given the example even testing guys perform in service but pertaining to goods made available so maybe we have to look into the transaction and we have to determine ingly I given my apprehension to you but that can be detailed out and discussed later fine now last question is that if the payments you know to an overseas agent you know he owes me say $400,000 and I owe him say $200,000 now he's doing The netting he's only making me payment for $200,000 now what will happen will it be Bing G it's netting permitted by RBI yes no problem but that is not being permitted under GST provision under GST when you term as export you should get money in convertible foreign exchange right so that may be another area of representation to the government that we are into both export and import right and we are getting it Nate off so to the extent it gets Nate off that will be considered we must say ultimately what I'm sending $1,000 and I need to pay $500 so net $500 transaction I got so it is making the transaction net off as per RBI but for GST they have to make such provision even after net you're getting it will be deemed as receipt in India unless this provision is being made unless this provision is made made bin by there may be litigation and DST department will be adment they will say no we will not consider export because you haven't you haven't got ,000 okay good we can take the question of rajes since you have a posi of time let last question yeah so uh continue it with the same example what Mr viin has given like uh providing service uh outside India and both like these uh like Korea and desh say that example so now in that case there's a there's a multinational company who has office in Delhi and they have a headquarter in S Dubai so the invoicing is done in Dubai only so in such a scenario what will be like if you compare the Indian forwarder who is billing through Delhi and the multinational company who is billing from uh Dubai so we will have the tax implication where the other party may not have that you rightly say I agree with you and this a matter of representation and that's what the concern we are raising to the government as well that though honorable prime minister has launched National logistic policy to provide export and import should be smoother from India but this is the way my business will go to Dubai and that is not helping to Indian fright forward or shipping line so that's very serious concern for undoubtably and I agree with you and another point of representation you know you can accumulate Shankar by last word for you if you have anything uh no we will send the DU to time positive we can take one of the questions from the participants whichever you see and then we can close up with the but but but before before we take one question from participants my question to all the participants now we are 528 now and these participants are staying back and for last one hour they are staying back and and I could see 600 comments in question answers box so it means all of you was is connected with me when I was deliberating on the topic what I need from each one of you I know there was a lot of dispute in the trade and Market the bin B ramama G and rajes G had asked a number of question they got certain Clarity also but still I tried my best to provide a Clarity on this changes effective from October 1 2022 on Ocean fret and air fret for export and did discuss when we are bilding to Indian customer when we are bilding to foreign counterpart when we are uh making billing to scj unit lot of example I created I created example of if shipment is done prior to First October invo AG after first October lot of things I did it I just want to have you know answer from you in a chat box or question answers box at least I know within one hour there may be some of the question which is left unanswered I do agree but we want to start our journey being together so today I'm being invited on your triple FAA platform I have taken this initiative provided the clarity lot of dispute was there whether ITC available not available with the two separate invoices at separate invoices one would be inter another would be intra lot of example I created in my deliberation I just want to ask one question from all of you to a re reasonable level hope you got clarified you say at least in the chat box yes he got reasonably clarified today that at least we have fair amount of understanding and Clarity today say yes in a chat box so that I get yes at least today's deliberation has really given uh uh a crystal Clarity but yes I do agree some of the things may be left out and the time is the pause so those who are saying yes your import is Exempted rind G import is Exempted long time so lot of questions I could have answered no denial to it but because of time pause and I need to catch my train honestly speaking it's I would have loved to continue to answer each one of you that would be my pleasure but only thing uh time is the pause today maybe next time we can again organize after 10 15 days and then we can take it Forward please tell me at least yes in a chat box so that I get you know satisfied I get m moated yes my audience got what they whatever they wanted am I right in saying so absolutely clear Sunil K G is saying thank you very much so those who are saying yes I'm really thankful and those who did not get the answer of their query allow me to have some time next time again we will organize with triple FAA and we'll try to take your other questions as well but uh today I need to catch my train I'm really sorry that I'm not continuing further 1 hour I promised that 1 hour would be very less time but I will clarify everything thank you very much that is what last question please thank you Mr Bim G yeah Rama last question you can take from the audience I don't I don't think there will be any other question Shankar you can just give him a thank you for his wonderful wonderful session fantastic no no doubt 1 hour is no time where we can justify all the participants to question but surely we are coming up with the FAQ and with the help of Mr Bimal jeni so we would like to prepare one FAQ for our industry we will send it with elaboration examples how it affects us or how the entries has to be done and we will surely like to have a common practices all across the logistics industry so this is how we look at it so please help us out we will in preparation and surely we take up we will excuse Mr V J from this session uh due to train here sir has to catch and we will look forward for the next session after our representation and discussion with board member tomorrow chairman so surely thanks a lot once again and we will look forward to be engaged with you for on longterm basis thanks a lot Mr continue with the wear for some thank you very much for this participant can still be there we will surely like to interact with participant participants for some more time no issues thank you very much thank you so much you one last thing can we send you these questions what people have with with the time pause I have to see my diary and then only I can commit anything at the moment I can't see anything okay later you can see we'll just send a question we will surely send a question we'll see the details on later part yeah thank Youk than you very much thank you thank you sir thank you thank you byebye you byee R you can take up some of the questions here and where possible we can understand the issues or the questions issues so it will help us to address during our meeting on Monday with the chairman CB Mr VI ji G because we'll also be preparing some questionnaire on that part so you can open up the session for questioner or some doubtful which is there so the house is open for the discussion uh there is a question by Nikita suaria about the RCM on import of services whether it's to be paid under RCM or not so this has been clarified by B that whenever there is a everything okay R go ahead yeah yeah the process of RCM has been explained uh I think this question was prior to your prior to his explanation and uh destination charges at overseas country DDP and ddu he has given the example also uh Third Country exports she has very categorically said this is what uh uh we and rajes G has been talking about it is igst is l and reasonably understood okay okay okay yes yes yes I I think this Anonymous attendee must put his name at least for next time onwards Ram what you can do you can just instead of reading the question if the participant is available you can invite him and speak yeah any anybody has any question please come out yeah no no you just spell out the name so Sagar can include them in the webinar in the panel yeah for question uh Ragu Shankar yeah g Ru shanka he has given plenty of points I think he has given a point effective Mr go ahead sir no no I've not given points I've just summed up whatever he said that's what that my only question is I I wein raised a question on third country export yeah it was generally said the recipient and supplier of Services India it is not so it is not so recipient is in India supplier is overseas so technically speaking GST should not apply whereas Mr bippin said no igst will apply I think the question was not posted properly recipient is in India I mean the services provided to an Indian forwarder Services provided by an external from one country to the other that being so IG should not apply this is my understanding which please get it clarified uh Ru we did discuss about this the ocean Freight is not taxable but all other service charges no no no no that is different handling charges that is not third party that is thir party is Korea to us if it is Korea to us the service from Korea to us is carried out by either the Korean or the US agent not India India is only the one part of it India is not both the receiver and provider of service India is only one leg that being so I I think we have to get this clarified one two is let me finish after that you can respond when you have a meeting with the chairman this uh uh applying igst itself is incorrect because 097 is is all prevaling so either No it should the code that you going to put 097 no is other territory it's not other state so either they have to create a new entity or they have to clarify about cgst and sgst applicability because it's a limbo the department can take any stand tomorrow and you may have notices issued so there should be some clarity that what you should apply should only be igst when the chairman meeting is there now let there be Clarity on the applicability that's it okay now to answer to your question who gives the order for Korea to USA and Indian entity okay and secondly who is the service provider Indian Freight forward and all other services leave it from us the Korea to USA that is not an issue here that is those charges as well as the freight is not leviable as for as GST IG is concerned but wherever whatever the service charges the Indian Freight forwarder is billing to the Indian exporter or Indian entity is service tax GST is liable on that that was the clarity he was trying to give it he said what we wanted yeah this is what he was asking basically I wanted know the I'm sitting in Delhi my customer you know is in Delhi he wants the shipment to be kepi from China to desh now I'm building it to Indian party you know but the services are provided outside India and recipient is also outside India what are youing for what are youing for what the services are providing because foreign agent my China agent is building me because I don't know anyone over there be be be specific are you giving the services of ocean Freight or are you giving the services of other charges both see as far as ocean Freight is concerned it is Exempted there is an exemption notification is also there 73 I think it is not ocean Freight is not avable on all other expenses it is igst is payable this is where I don't agree the exemption will not apply here the place of provision of services rule will apply there is a difference between exemption and the applicability service rules right correct yeah if you apply the ACT no I'm saying the services are provided outside India probably the recipient of services in India Vin you have to correct me yeah that's right but I I'll get it clarified from him only you know maybe on Monday because I'll call him and I'll check on this and I'll let you know he was referring to section 133 yeah there is 128 128 is outside India Section 133 no maybe if you apply it no then the exemption will come in the picture 133 is for the local local expenses and everything if you apply 12 to the services outside the country so automatically the place of provision of the place of resit of service which is outside the country the 12892 but then you know one thing more you know which is saidin gin R we can take it's a third country export it depends on the transaction so let us take that question we will have it addressed type of cases it's a bit complicated because there is even the case laws means Provisions are different for different things so we'll have that representa you can take for some other question anything Bindu you have raised your hand can you unmute Bindu please yeah yeah yeah uh thank you so sorry it was prayor I got answer from you already thank you so much that's what I thought as well because you are clear okay yeah I got my query answered thank you so much thank you thank you I think it was quite clear but we wanted more time so that you know he could have taken more Prov n Gandhi Mr n Gandhi is there we'll just take n gandh yes Mr good even good afternoon and thank you very much a very interesting session I would definitely like to have the summary of this and I would like to have the video again because I would like to make some notes on this uh coming to the last point I may have missed hearing part of it but if the issue is of Third Country Services uh shipments to an Indian shipper or Indian customer that is let's say if an Indian customer says ship some cargo from Singapore to Africa I think this needs some U at least needs some clarification specifically now that export of services export of freight is attracting uh GST so we should get an answer to this earlier we had an Escape Route that ex I'm treating Singapore to Africa as export and therefore there is no GST on that ocean Freight uh I think one needs to understand how this is going to be addressed in this new regime I think Shankar when we are going to the chairman we should ask for this because this is also was one of the point of vand Agarwal is please get this clarified this might create a problem at a later stage R there are two three situation in this also the export or the contractor may be available in India or abroad also we may work as a forwarding also because third country export may have that we may not be in direct contact with exporter or importer it is a forwarder to forward it is only our R contract which they may utilize so there are two three scenarios which we need to highlight to the cbic and we will do that case laws sorry shank I'm saying like it's an Indian customer who I'm both so Indian custom also and even the external so there are two three scenarios that's what we trying to yeah so yes we have a case to represent so any other Ram I don't think so anybody else raama I have got one clarification I have to ask if you allow me you know what he said was that you know to a company if he's building to overseas you know and if the you know like a multinational company if the Indian multinational XY Z they have got a head office in Germany and they you know billing to them then they do not get this you know exemption they have to charge 18% foreign exchange you know foreign billing even if they doing forign billing is that correct no no they he talked about the distinct entity distinct like for for example you have a you are based out of Delhi and you have office in Bombay your own office and you have a separate GST you have office in chenai with a separate GST you are a distinct entity no no but if I have got a office say in London and I'm bilding to my London office what what will be the case he said if you are having your own entity then it's a svb case sorry it's a svb case he has already clarified speci ra we will have lot of questions we will take the question questions in writing from all the members and then we will give the make a representation also and we'll also prepare FAQ for all our members uh so that will help to at least create one common practices across our industry and assist our members and we'll also have this portal based question answers uh which we can have a direct posting to the TRU section also where they can get direct responses also so with this I think so if everything is clear we will always have the ambiguity and from time to time because the new change which has coming different practices and it's not a straightforward understanding because our practical aspect needs to be made understood to the government as to how do we work how do we perform and what are the different ways of Performing so we will surely make this representation in a better way with the understanding and the response received from the trade uh to prepare a final FAQ with this I think so I thank all our my office bearers the advisers over here and all the main participation for showing this uh importance of the seminar and webinar to attend this webinar uh and we look forward for the more inputs from your side also which will strengthen to make our case more stronger thanks once again to all our members for the participating and keeping us in touch thanks a lot thank you thank you so much thankk you