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I'm Ken canara and this is beyond Consulting today we welcome Nishant mathur to the studio nashat is the VP of product at Oyo he's also a former BCG consultant Nishant thanks so much for joining thank you so much for having me Ken it's a pleasure you bet so nishant's joining us from Dallas today so the weather in Dallas is a little balmy uh from what Nishant was telling me yeah at the start of the show but besides the weather maybe you could just give us a little bit of color on your background in your story yeah just one thing on the weather I would say I don't think I've ever used this much sunscreen in my life ever so you know this is the craziest heat I've seen but yeah just uh myself can so I engineering at The Institute of Technology as you may know it's one of the most selective colleges for engineering in India I pursued that with my MBA at Indian Institute of Management which is an even more selective school I really enjoyed my MBA got its scholarship and then straight away joined BCG I spent eight years at BCG where I led over 20 projects across seven countries I think it was one of the best work experiences I've ever had I worked in strategy M A org design operations cost reduction go to market you name it had an amazing time worked with some of the smartest people I know then while I was at BCG I got a chance to be a strategy ambassador to to its internal Think Tank called strategy Institute that's when I started studying a lot about platforms about technology companies how companies like apple Amazon are basically disrupting the World by working in sort of an ecosystem of companies this curiosity led me to research a bit more about tech companies in general than platforms and and then an opportunity arrived with RetailMeNot which was the company I joined after my Consulting career so RetailMeNot is a leading savings platform which connects millions of customers to you know over 70 000 Brands and I let strategy fpna business operations it was my first experience with tech I learned so much it helped me understand a lot about products product management you know working with engineers and just how-to-sided platforms work after that I wanted to work in a more in more like a growth stage company and I got an opportunity with Oyo so many of you may not know is one of the world's largest Hospitality Tech platforms it's you know the world's third most downloaded travel app and it serves over 157 000 storefronts and essentially it provides them with technology and software to help increase their revenues and ease their operations and as a result provides affordable and you know quality accommodation to customers so I like OU behaves like a startup I've done tons of things I started as a chief of staff and spent around two years working on some of the most critical projects for the company and then most recently I've become part of the product organization where I'm a VP of product management I lead two teams one that deals with product operations which is the entire product Machinery building the strategy the roadmap quarterly prioritization analytics and Communications and the other team I lead is I manage their B2B products where we uh you know serve thousands of clients and help sell millions of room nights a year to our B2B clients excellent great great background and I want to talk about a lot of things today I want to talk about product management at Oyo I want to talk about your roles at chief of staff there as well and I also want to hear about uh the fpna work that you did at RetailMeNot but yeah let's start off by just giving maybe the listeners a little bit maybe an example of what Oyo does in terms of kind of like a solution uh that they wrap their head around yeah I mean I think the problem that Oyo is trying to solve for is that there are thousands and actually millions of small hotels and homes in the world which are run by you know independent owners they are not managed by brands and they have actually been Untouched by technology right they are often not online if they're online they're only on one platform they don't have the right content they don't have the right pricing and what Oyo is trying to do is bring the best technology to these sort of underserved segment and as a result this which opens up much more choices for consumers and as our consumers can actually get accommodation at a lower price than they would have had in terms of the technology which we are providing we actually are full stacked so we start all the way from providing them demand and it could be demand through our own direct Demand channel like the Oyo app or it could be through okay you know OTS as well so we have Partnerships with all the OTS in the world it doesn't matter to us where the money comes from okay as long as like you know they get booking so many we work on uh content so one of the most important things is a lot of these hotels don't have the right photographs don't have the right descriptions and we basically use a lot of our algorithms to one get them better photographs and also just sequencing them better so that they get more clicks we manage pricing a lot of these people you know often resort to fixed pricing and what we provide to them is dynamic pricing through which we actually are able to modify their prices every hour every minute and we look at the competition and are actually able to maximize their refpart so that you're not only you know going after the higher prices you maximize total revenue made per room we work on reconciliation so this is you know a bit messy but each of them have relations with each OTA then they have bills coming from them they have to settle them we basically automate it all and we bring it all together we also work on guest experience so we have built chat Bots through which you know they can actually resolve queries of their customers otherwise you know they have to be on the phone all the time we also have um you know hotel management system so it's a cloud-based HMS which you know is landing with them on their iPad or their phone or whatever they want to use and they can do their check-in checkout from there we also help them in their marketing Endeavors so we launch a lot of products through which they can invest their extra dollars by encouraging bookings from one channel the other so the overall objective is that individually these things can be done by different players right we bring it all together so it's easy for the hotel or the homeowner and what they can just focus then on is the most important thing which is serving the customer right instead of all the administrative things that you know they often end up spending time with excellent and I'm sure you see all sorts of kind of like um you know gains for for these types of you're essentially serving the long tail of the market and freeing up their time and I'm sure sure there's a tremendous value for them yeah yeah I think sort of research has shown that typically a hotel pre-oyo let's say it's making 1X it ends up making anywhere between 1.5 x to 2.3 x after it joins oil oh wow okay that's that's significant that's really big okay great now that's that's really helpful because that really paints a a much clearer kind of clearer picture of kind of what what Oyo does let's start with product management so you you uh your VP of product management at Oyo um what does that mean and how did you get into it so it's it's very interesting so I'd always been interested in product management ever since I moved to the tech industry because I can't be an engineer so you know I guess the next best thing is to manage products but but Joker said I think product management is a broader term I think the way it is used uh mostly these days is about you know software products or technical products or Hardware but it can be anything right you know a product management is ultimately in charge of a solution that is solving a client's need and the key thing is the product manager is that connective tissue between the ultimate user of the product and the ones who make it and more specifically in in a software or a tech world the product manager is that person who is responsible for making sure that the engineers are building exactly the right solutions that will solve a customer's need right so that that's sort of the broad description I think going specifically on a day-to-day basis uh you know product management has become one of the most important one of the more important jobs today is because a lot more companies are trying to solve their problems or trying to provide Solutions in the form of products rather than people earlier it was easy you just you know send people to do a job and it will be done but you know as you try to scale it's always best to do it through technology driven products and so therefore this person who is in this you know and in an incredible position of understanding what the customer wants converting it into technical requirements making sure the engineers bring the right solution test it out and ultimately be responsible for the success is this you know is a fantastic role that has like emerged and and how I personally got into it is um when oil was hit by the pandemic we actually stopped and we tried to look at you know what do we need to do differently because you know in March 2020 2020 we saw 80 of our bookings go away overnight wow right wow so that could you know shut down a company overnight and it's it's yeah I mean it's a miracle of hard work and thankfully some good decisions that we took that we survived 2020 and then we use 2021 to be you know our year of resurgence and Oyo had always you know had tons of products but we renewed our focus on it we almost doubled our efforts on making sure that every solution that we give to our customers are done through products my manager became the CPO and as his chief of staff um my first role was to First help set up the product organization basically we carved it out out of you know our existing teams we you know we shuffled some of our Central organizations and built that into product organization the first step was just you know setting it up you know building out all the processes making sure they talk to the businesses making sure we're solving the most important problems and then I personally was given charge of one of the product lines to make sure it continues to deliver results so we had a we had a very healthy B2B business obviously like during the pandemic it fell down a bit and I was given the responsibility to make sure that we continue to grow their business grow it more on the basis of products than people and also make sure we continue to improve our take rate from that so that led me to product management and I've really enjoyed it I think it's amazing that like I'll give you some stories like for a recent product we basically wanted to solve a problem where we want to invest the marketing dollars of patrons into the right channels to increase their demand right so if they want more demand from a certain Channel we can launch a product uh where we can get incremental you know dollars from them and thereby Drive demand so the problem seems very straight up you know straightforward a lot of people do it but as a journey into product management it went all the way from first talking to the patrons and understanding what they want right second trying to figure out what is the right pricing right how much should you charge them what should be the different layers where should you launch them running Pilots you launch a pilot in a small Market you get tons of learnings right then designing so you can even run offline Pilots or online planets you know a lot of people think that you always have to make real product but you can just like bootstrap it and just you know run it with a setup and if your network has a big reach and you have enough total you know in the network you can do that very easily then designing basically looking at the design making sure that you know you're catching the attention of a person so that they opt in for the program so you know tons of things to do there going through uat's you know Finding errors when it's coded you know checking all of those errors making sure it launch then teaching the sales team right we have inside sales and outside sales team teaching them all about the product to make sure they pitch it correctly right looking at their pitches right sometimes you would want to see their entire script and say okay you should be saying this you should not do the same right and making sure people are Hotel Network starts adopting it and that's just one side of the problem because it's Supply then there is the demand side right to make sure now that all your demand products are promoting this so that if somebody is paying that extra commission they actually do get that Demand right so working through all your products figuring out how you can put the call to action what kind of carousels you can put what sort of you know CRM you can do you also have a sales team on the demand side so teaching them all about it making sure it's important so it's actually pretty interesting like it goes all the way from conceptualization to a lot of operations ultimately to make sure that the product is successful and and the best part of it is you see a product which you know in the first week of launch had only 0.2 percent of the network adopted and two and a half months now and it's 20 yeah and you're tracking the daily and a half months you brought it to a pretty big state and we wanted to go above whenever we wanted to be 50 but you know it's just it's just quite amazing you know chasing those Targets on a daily basis talking to Engineers talking to operations talking to everybody including the customer multiple times and making sure things are successful well it's quite comprehensive and I I think that's one thing that I probably didn't appreciate until I got out of Consulting and kind of saw started to learn what product managers do and I think that's why consultants make good product managers because it's not just leading a team of Engineers right it's it's it's so much more it's those other 10 things that you talked about right I I think the go-to market is go to market of any product is is I would say as important as designing the product obviously like a great product will lead will not need too much you know go to market interventions but you know most products do need a lot of good Market interventions like it could be just the flyer that you send the marketing the CRM right like you it's it's and there's so much you can do there's so much you can learn excellent you you've obviously enjoyed product management in general so for someone maybe that's considering going into a product management career Focus any drawbacks or downsides or like like minor annoyances that you didn't necessarily foresee before you kind of took took took on that role yeah I think I will talk about you know some things that should be known and then some of the nuisances I think let me start with the new census I think a lot of products fail a lot of perks will fail and and the nature of the business is the nature of the business right and so you quickly have to learn how to do experiments and learn fast right basically like if you look at Consultants right we don't ever expect our products projects to fail right no that's like that's a career limiting move if the project fails right yeah exactly yeah but you know products are often on a smaller scale they might take a lot of time and they will fail and there are many many examples right like the Amazon's phone right it's a perfect example of a great company great product managers yep great market and it failed yeah I mean that was after even went to market right so a lot of products fail before they even go to market exactly so and you're right this is off your product will fail before the market and I think you just have to be ready for that and that's something that you know takes time to learn I think the second thing I think it's very important to learn how to work with engineers I think if you've never worked with them it's important to you know understand how important a role they play and why it is very important to you know engage them not just early on in the process but all along the way it's a common tendency sometimes to you know just treat them as you know one part of the value chain that hey I will make my design then they will go implement it but I think it's very important to make them be part of the whole process and make them go on the outcomes and someone who's never worked with Engineers you know I think it's good to like spend time and understand what drives them what kind of things they can do and and basically learn a lot from them like they can probably figure out a better way to solve you know then what you're probably thinking right because they're doing it day in and night so so I think that's something that I would uh I would definitely say is important and I think the third thing it depends on company to company but there's still a lot of like office things involved with products right you might just think that it's all like hey you switched on a button and everything works but it's not right sales is still a lot of sales is digital but there's still a lot of like manual sales right a lot of fulfillment is digital but there's still a lot of you know manual fulfillment and I think it's important to understand that that will be the case and over time you will get better and better and you know at one day you know maybe productize it end to end and I guess the last thing I would say which I think is a pretty important learning is and this is something that takes time to get used to I think again is one of like the gurus of product management any laid it out pretty well that when a product succeeds it's just it's due to everyone involved it's the engineers the product managers it's operation program manager everyone the product fails it's a product manager is responsible that's right those are the cards laid out to you you have to abide by the Stones yeah you have to own it that's a really good point and I guess on the I I guess as a follow-up on the second Point around kind of working with the engineers is there anything that maybe Consultants that are going into call it a product manager will do better on just like right out of the gate right like hey like don't you know don't do this or expect longer timelines like you know because because like we come out of Consulting working with a team of insecure overachievers that just want to please us right and then and then we come to the real world and realize it doesn't work like that yeah any specific or tactical advice yeah yeah I think like definitely about engineers but everybody in general I think it's very important to understand their constraints and what they're doing right you probably like remember like you go to a case especially when you're young and you tend to suddenly think hey I know everything these people are doing ABCD wrong and they should be doing this better yeah I don't know why they're not doing this better right yeah you know it's so simple yeah let me tell them let me tell them how to do this I would definitely say don't take that Approach at all not anywhere I would say but definitely not in engineering I think it's it's really really important to understand that everybody is working really hard okay everybody's trying really hard and they have a ton of constraints uh I mean honestly I also like felt that when I was when I started doing it I we wanted to get estimates from engineers and they were a bit hesitant it's a big topic right and some Engineers never want to give time estimates some give stretched estimates and and you know we used to be very annoyed that you know why are they not giving us estimates because we can't plan them we can't plan for our product release if they can't um but the problem is it is incredibly hard for someone to give estimates when you just give them a problem statement or a one-page document yes right if you give a one-page document to them saying that hey I want to charge extra from you know patrons so that I can diver traffic it can mean so many things yeah so there was a lot of like back and forth at the time that hey you know we only have this detail you give us estimates they were giving long estimates and ultimately the whole planning cycle was going along and you have to like get into the deal you have to have like varying you know non-judgmental and really like heart-to-head conversations with why are they not giving those estimates and they're not giving them because they don't get enough details and then they are held to like unrealistic timelines yeah right and that doesn't help anybody yeah so either you give more details or you you know just go with T-shirt size and you know operate in a world of ambiguity and and so there are many many nuances to you know product management like all the way from prioritization making sure your product gets built uh making sure you're working on the right products making sure the engineers understand it making sure you're giving them the right details and and I would highly encourage like for someone who is coming into this is to live the life of an engineer and before sort of like you know jumping into and saying hey build me this yeah no that that is really good advice yeah because it definitely gives you an appreciation for the all the different nuances and permutations that can happen right because there's there's all sorts of Integrations and everything like that as you start to as you once you start to kind of like the build and then but you actually started at Oyo as a as a in a chief of staff capacity is that right yes yes I did could you talk to us a little bit about that yeah so when I initially joined I was uh I've only I reported to the same manager but my manager was the head of the he uh head of the U.S business he is the Chief Operating Officer and he was also leading the U.S business and I was hired as like Chief of Staff slash you know VP of strategic projects and I joined in December 2019 where you know we were initially you know trying to make sure that we build a profitable business so I started working on a lot of like you know Top Line and bottom line initiatives to make sure that the business is healthy and then March 2020 happened and nobody turned around basically like we hike some drastic actions to make sure you know everything survived and it was not pleasant but you know it was needed to be done looking back as Chief of Staff like some of the best things about a chief of staff role or what I ended up doing was like you end up working on some of the most important problems especially if you're the chief of staff of a very key executor right so every year I was given some of the most interesting problems first was like just making sure the US business and the company survived next year it was about standing up the product cognition and building our IPO story especially from a technology and product side and this year it's more around growth what's amazing about Chief of Staff Roland or why like a lot of Consultants might end up liking it is that it's a series of very very important projects which is sort of what Consulting also does right sure you are given some of the most important problems that a cxo may have and you have to go solve them right and it also because you've done several problems you know you are good with ambiguity you know how to you know structure them how to you know work with the stakeholders for example one of the best skills in uh required for Chief of Staff role is influencing without Authority and that is something which Consultants you know do day in day out we we don't you know we are not the boss of anybody in the company we just have a mandate but you learn to work with it and and that is a skill that is really really related on Chief of Staff because you are not you know you nobody in the company is reporting to you often you are in ic yeah sometimes you may have a small team yeah and often you need inputs right from people who have no incentive to give you inputs right exactly and you can't keep saying that hey my boss is so and so so you better do this like that doesn't work you should definitely not do that uh otherwise you'll have a very small career as a chief of staff um it's pretty important to leverage your Consulting skills of you know how do you talk to clients how do you understand them how do you influence them how do you make them you know do a certain thing that they really don't want to do right how do you communicate that and again it depends on the environment right you know in covert a lot of people had to do things they never wanted to do in a growth stage it could be something else and I think as a consultant because you have done that in many many places and with you know stakeholders across all levels you get those skills of taking on some of the most important problems of an executive and and and you know helping solve them some other things that could be different is like typically as a conservative you get a team and as Chief of Staff sometimes you will have no team member you have to do it all by yourself sometimes you might get like a few program managers to do it so that's something that you have to learn that sometimes you have to be an IC and get things done I think typically is a good entry point for some people in a company because it allows them to see things at a very high you know at a very high level and understand you know what's going on and then they can decide okay I want to go into product so here's what I will do or you know I wanna you know go into operations I want to go into sales and I think uh if you succeed as a chief of staff if you're able to demonstrate that you can bring around chains successfully you know most of the people in the company would be happy to take you yeah I think that's a great Point especially around seeing different parts of the business because you can kind of get a sneak peek into what you find interesting or even the teams that you get a lot of energy working with and that sort of thing yeah okay awesome and obviously you work now in Hospitality technology prior to oh you uh you you worked at RetailMeNot could you tell us a little bit about your experience there yeah so I think RetailMeNot is one of those you know pure software businesses or pure I would say a tech company which is a platform that is connecting Brands to customers so their key business model is they have tons of demand from customers who are looking to you know for deals and on the other side there are ton of retailers who want to Target these customers and you know use the deals as a way to drive sales and ultimately the platform matches them helps the customers save money and at the same time helps the retailer by making the customer purchase at their site it was also especially you know useful because it was used by a lot of brands that had never been online right it's so basically the Kohl's Macy's now obviously they've been in the online business for a long time but a lot of these Brands were just learning how to run their online business and RetailMeNot was a very effective way in which they could you know direct their demand or get their demand from so I I had a wonderful experience I think it was a very well-run company they were probably better than anybody in the business in search engine optimization they were the gurus of you know Google you know whenever you search for a coupon retailmenot.com number one which was very interesting it uh helped them operate their business at you know very high level of margins because you know if you run SEO really well your cost of acquisition becomes really low and therefore you're getting customers almost for free and that's that's you know a very very healthy business to be in I wish I learned how to do that yes I agree I I think you know people there could write a book about SEO I think so uh when I joined them I basically joined a business operations team and uh I was I was in charge of strategy uh I was in charge of forecasting an enroll operating Plan Building after p a activity is like I used to basically run pricing for their products uh I mean I'm my team sure we used to help build the sales compensation plan for the team we used to also build the goals for the sales team we used to help run parts of sales operations and then regular metrics reporting so it was uh you know a really good experience for me because I learned how like I had a lot of Fascination for platforms and you know and this really helped me understand how like you know two-sided marketplaces work and you know how how what are the different metrics to chart how do they actually make money and things and then things like that excellent and that was your kind of first job directly out of Consulting right because you left BCG as a principal yes yes it was my first job so what was kind of like going through your head yeah you're a principal at a BCG and you kind of like you know you're gonna take this leap um I just know that a lot of our listeners kind of are are finding themselves in that kind of position you know walk us through I guess kind of how how it all happened in your thought process yeah somewhere around you know my career in Consulting I started thinking a lot about like you know where do I want my career to go for the next 10 years and I didn't see that happening in the practice area that I was currently working in right and I always had a Fascination for tech companies and you know marketplaces and Platforms in general so I started researching a lot about it and you know and at some point I think uh in 2017 I thought it's the right time for me to you know probably understand experience how these marketplaces work uh understand how tech companies in general work and whether it's a good fit to be honest I I started by my search by actually having a very big canvas and I think one of the things that most Consultants will see is that they have tons of opportunities once they decide to leave right it could be across Industries it could be across roles it could be across stages of the company and it isn't necessarily a bad thing to have like it's always good to have that choice so I started with like a you know really really big canvas big Excel sheet with what I can do um you made a Consulting project out of it out of your search I did yeah and then I was given this really good advice by one of the I think people at BCC that you know talk to as many people uh I think it will just drive a lot of clarity so I talked to tons of people still in Consulting outside of Consulting people who had made several career moves and and you know I got a lot of good advice around why they made the change and whether that resonated and ultimately I think what I realized was that I wanted to be part of a sort of a medium-sized company where I can actually see a lot and have a much more powerful role and understand which parts of the you know which parts of you know a typical tech company do I like or not and that's the opportunity that came with rmn I had you know a very understanding and a very very good manager who basically gave me you know a blank canvas and said this is how we currently do things but you know you are welcome to change and you know modify this in any way you feel like uh and also I think because the company I think I had 600 or so people it was very easy to know what is happening across all segments like sometimes and again people can have different choices some people might just immediately go to a big company knowing very clearly what they want to do but to me I wasn't still sure of which part of a tech company that I would really like and and so I found this role to be you know uh particularly interesting because it won allowed me to use my Consulting skills right fpna is a typical place where you know most Consultants succeed and and the reason why they succeed a lot is they're able to bring finance and business both together right sometimes Finance teams and again it's changing but sometimes they end up being too much about the numbers and less about the business and Consultants know in and out about the business and I think and a good fpna person combines both Finance numbers and business together so that you know they are actually looking at the numbers in the right way and helping Drive the right uh you know business outcomes it's not just about reports it's about delivering the right Insight that will change the business and and therefore like fpn is often a very very good role for someone to step into to me it helped I understood the business really in and out I understood the p l I understood which parts of the business make money it helped me make better operating plans it helped me like you know build the right business strategies always being in Consulting I always had a soft corner for sales teams so I was like sort of the you know business operations liaison for the sales team so I could definitely like after selling a few cases you realize how hard sales is and so I definitely had a soft corner for them and therefore worked extensively on making sure you know they are set up for success and so because the role had those Dimensions as well I found it super interesting and I thought I could add a lot of value so that's how sort of made I appreciate you sharing that story because I think one of the things that you mentioned was talk to a lot of people right and uh it's amazing because like as consultants we often I think okay you know we'll do our research we we we we look online you know we think we know a lot about a topic and actually the the reason I'm bringing it up is part of what you just said was the Genesis for this this show yeah because there's nuances that you just don't kind of pick up on until you actually talk to people um and it's it's it's not it's not so easy either right yeah but by doing it I I really think it's it's a it's such a great way to do your diligence right actually speaking of diligence right I mean that's how you perform a commercial due diligence right you you do your research but you also have to talk to a lot of customers right and it's kind of the same I've never actually made that connection until you just kind of uh kind of you just told your story so thank you yeah yeah I think it's just like learning never stops right it's it's very you're right and I would agree like like when I left Consulting I thought like I know everything but you know learning never stops and you talk to like you talk to people in Facebook and you understand how that works you talk to people in startups and understand how that works you talk to people in non-tech companies you and the great thing about Consulting is you can be if you leave Consulting you can join FPA you can join Finance you can be product manager you can do product marketing you can do sales operations you can do HR if you like like from a you know Arc role you can do sales yeah right you can do customer success right there is so much you can do right and so it's always good to talk to people who have done this understand also then talk to yourself and say that okay which part of my Consulting cases are like the most you can do all of it but what did you like the most which industry did you like the most and then when you talk to people when you step back take notes I think it helps you eventually get to an answer and it could be ambiguous in the first month right in the first month you'll be like you know what do I do everything looks cool but I think after some conversations in a month or so you'll be realizing that okay this makes sense for me I think that's right and lastly just before we wrap up besides the Beyond Consulting podcast uh we just want to uh see Nishant are there any you know blogs books or podcasts or YouTube channels that you kind of follow or read or recommend to Our Guest uh as as they're kind of thinking about their journey in their career two books that that I like a lot and that I would recommend um the first is principles by Ray value yeah yeah it's it's I think most people probably know about it but I just found it fascinating I think it one tells his whole life story which is quite incredible to you know to read but also the way some of the ways or the framework in which he has laid out on how to think about life and work is quite incredible and most Consultants would like it but I think some of the things that stick still stick to me is like just embracing reality and dealing with it I think it is a very very interesting statement which you know a lot of people often miss out or being radically open-minded your mind thinks you're going here but you're just being open and finding like three points of views for everything uh and ultimately how to make better decisions I think it's a fascinating book that I would recommend the second um so I was my dad studied psychology I was always interested in psychology as a kid and and there's a book called uh influence by Robert celdini it's an amazing book which talks about how and why people make decisions they do right and it's it's a pretty eye-opening book uh I think it's highly recommended to anybody in sales because it talks a lot about how sales some of the best sales people in the world are able to you know trigger not necessarily out able to convince their customers but it's also pretty eye-opening to yourself and why you make certain decisions under certain conditions and I found it fascinating I wish I had read it while I was a consultant I might have been even better with my clients but I'm very happy that I read it right now oh awesome I'm looking forward to reading that as well because I've read the first one but not the second one so thanks for those suggestions well very good and then I guess Nishant if folks wanted to learn more about uh Oyo or yourself do you have any links or information you'd like to share with our guests yeah I mean we just filed our prospectus for an IPO it's it's a massive document congrats you know I can I can send the link for that and I can tell you which page is but yeah I think there are a couple of websites and maybe I'll like send them over and you can include it in the link yeah we'll drop them in the in the link for the description um and then just for all of our uh our first time listeners make sure you hit subscribe uh either on Apple Amazon or Spotify just so you're notified of future episodes if you want to see or hear past episodes you can always check out our YouTube channel or Beyond consulting.info and then lastly if you want to get in touch with me or anybody else at ECA it's going to be eca-partners.com Nishant thank you so much for joining in for everybody else we will talk to you next week [Music]