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to a special holiday edition of the last word with every vote counted in the presidential election we now know that once again Donald Trump did not win a majority of the vote cook political report tells us Donald Trump captured about 77.3 million votes 49.8% to kamla Harris's 75 million votes 48.3 3% a 1.2% winning margin for Donald Trump another 1.7% of the vote went to other candidates with almost 3 million people voting for other candidates for president and so once again most American voters voted against Donald Trump in the end the 2024 election was decided by 22976 votes across Michigan Pennsylvania and Wisconsin Joe Biden's record high vote count in 2020 of 81 million votes for president Remains the most votes ever won by a presidential candidate in American history of course the number of Voters constantly increases as the population increases over time and so former presidents who actually won in huge landslides like Ronald Reagan Lyndon Johnson and Franklin Delano Roosevelt couldn't possibly have won as many votes as even losing candidates do now because of the voting population at that time was so much smaller postelection polls showed voters in conflict with themselves 79% of Voters said lowering prices of goods and services was their top priority 52% of Voters said they favored new tariffs on Goods imported from other countries 59% of Voters said that new tariffs on goods from other countries would generally make the prices of the things they buy higher the Congressional budget office agrees with those 59% of Voters who said new tariffs will increase prices the Congressional budget office estimates the new tariffs Donald Trump has proposed would cost American families an average of $1,560 a year but the CBO inflation calculations did not include imported electronics and virtually all of our electronics are imported that is a category that would face the highest price increases as much as 60% price increases Republicans showed no consistent governing capacity during the first Trump presidency with Republican house members in open revolt against their own leadership they it's a habit that they just cannot break in the New York Times Jamal Buie writes this about the incoming Trump Administration compare Trump's picks with virtually any other Republican White House or cabinet and you'll see a team with with shockingly little governing experience and almost no connection to the institutional Republican party outside of donations made to Affiliated political action committees Trump is not picking from within the broad universe of the Republican Party he has no interest in most of the politicians policy entrepreneurs and experienced bureaucrats who make up most Republican administrations he is interested more or less in people he sees on TV Trump is less concerned here with the health of the Republican Party less concerned with building out the next generation of Republican leaders than he is with serving his narrowest interests the Republican Party could wither and die and Donald Trump would not care provided it did not disrupt his ability to enrich himself and his family leading our our discussion Jamal Buie he is a colonist for the New York Times and co-host of the podcast unclear and presentation anger EJ Deon is also with us he's an opinion columnist for the Washington Post and a senior fellow at the Brooking institution he's also a professor of government at Georgetown University uh Jamal I want to begin with that that point you make about here is the theoretically I guess you'd call him leader of the Republican Party Donald Trump who has absolutely no interest in building the Republican party yes I think the immediate issue for the Republican Party the very least is it just puts them in a bad political position there will I'm sure very quickly come a time when the immediate interest of Donald Trump are going to conflict with what is best politically for the Republican party and in those situations you want a president who cares about the health of his party but if you don't have one Trump is very clearly willing to sacrifice the health of the Republican Party its immediate political interest to whatever he wants to do and I think we'll see that pretty soon uh EJ talk about what a this is from the past with former both Republican presidents and democratic presidents and the way they approached party building I think you've had presidents who' done more parting building uh than others uh Barack Obama won great victories but was not all that interested uh in building his party LBJ was clearly a party sort of guy but I think there's another fundamental here that underscores Jamal's point which is Donald Trump is a lame duck president the Constitution makes very clear that he cannot run for president again and I think you saw Republicans realizing that right from the beginning when they rejected uh Rick Scott as their leader and elected John Fon now it was secret ballot so they could get away with voting against at least Elon musk's pick and what was seen as Maga world's pick and voting for somebody who would protect them and not Trump and so I think you are going to see Republicans with that in the back of their minds and you're also going to have Republicans who are going to want to run for president uh in 2028 and they're going to be thinking about their interests now in the short term there's going to be a lot of worry that Trump will primary them that uh the Maga constituency is right now a majority of the Republican primary vote but they know that Trump has a on him and I think that's going to reduce his power more than he realizes and uh Donald Trump's uh popularity favorability has already uh dropped uh since the election uh it show with the latest shows him at 41% favorable uh if you go back uh to 2016 at this point after he was elected and before he took the oath of office he was 10 points higher at 51% uh so well that's a that's kind of a lame duck number uh that he's starting with there that's right and I think EJ's point that he enters office and a and somewhat weakened position is a really critical one it's not just that he is a lame duck and has basically 18 months right before uh the the pressures of the election cycle really Bear Down on the entire political landscape but he also has this big ambitious agenda narrow majorities in the house very a fragile narrow majority in the house a narrow majority in the Senate with uh Republican Senators who may not be on board with every single little thing he wants to do it is even a skilled and competent and experienced president would have a hard time under these conditions and the president we have is Donald Trump yeah that's such a good point uh EJ I want to go back to your point about John th and the as the next Senate leader because it was such an interesting early test of uh Elon Musk coming out and saying here's who I want for Republican leader of the Senate and Republican Senators basically said we don't care your guy comes is going to come in last in in our uh election among Senate Republicans uh and and going forward that does seem and and John th is very much that party-building kind of guy that he's the kind of senator who is very much interested in maintaining a republican majority in the Senate and finding the right candidates who are winner candidates not Fringe crazy candidates that the kind of Donald Trump supports and I think that one of the things one of the reasons I'm glad you showed those numbers at the beginning of the show is Republican politicians can count votes and when Donald Trump claims on the basis of a victory that was actually smaller than Hillary Clinton's victory in the popular vote when Trump won the Electoral College in 2016 they know Trump uh is uh speaking nonsense uh Donald Trump by the way in mid December uh said that he had the biggest mandate in 129 years that was a really strange number for him to pick because it doesn't even go back to the an election year I went back it's 1895 and there were almost no elections then a guy called Frederick uh uh what's his name Frederick um uh greenel how Fredick greenhalge got elected in Massachusetts uh he has the green hge mandate obviously it's nonsense and I think th and Tom Tillis who's up next year and a lot of Republican Senators who are up in 2026 are well aware that there's no mandate here and yeah they're going to go along with Trump because his success will partly uh uh benefit them they'll go along with them if they think it will help them um but as you say th is interested in a republican majority not only in 2026 but beyond uh Jamal one thing uh your description of the Trump cabinet that's coming in uh one thing that Donald Trump seems to have tried to guarantee is that no one in his cabinet would possibly agree to invoke the 25th Amendment uh to remove him which is a c it's it's an option open to the cabinet and they did discuss it after January 6th last time some of them did uh Donald Trump is making sure there's not a person there who' even think about it that's right he is selecting primarily for loyalty which I mean for someone who is worried about that kind of backstabbing that makes sense but it's also important to recognize sort of like the most loyal people aren't necessarily going to be the ones with the greatest handle on running these agencies and these these agencies like the Department of Defense the Department of Justice like these are real jobs with real responsibilities and it takes time to learn how to uh do those jobs well I'm going to repeat this but experienced bureaucrats experienced political operators have taken these jobs and run into trouble because it's it's hard to to to work the president's will through the federal bureaucracy and so one of the things that I think Trump has to watch out for from offering him advice is that he may have these loyal people but they won't necessarily they may not necessarily be able to work his will in the way that he wants them to and they may have to resort right to sort of lawlessness to do the things he wants which opens up another set of political problems as as well as just practical ones for the administration jelle buy and EJ Dion thank you very much for joining us on this special holiday edition of The Last Word most important thing to know when you look at a ballot is what you are voting for and that isn't easy to do because your only choice on the ballot is who you are voting for many voters mistakenly thought when they voted for Donald Trump that they were voting for someone who would get things done in their Community that's because most of us and that very much includes me don't always know who to credit for the good things or the bad things that government has done who did that who built that new bridge who rebuilt our airport to make it a state-of-the-art airport why did that new chips factory locate in that town who did that the answers to those questions are critical to informed voter participation in a democracy people will automatically get refunds from Airlines next year when their flights are cancelled and they won't know that Joe Biden did that people will be driving over Bridges with their kids in the back seat not knowing that that bridge was rebuilt and made safer by Joe Biden it would take much more than the full hour of this program to Def describe what Joe Biden did as president of the United States but for most other presidents it would take less than an hour to describe what they did in the presidency Donald Trump in four years did tax cuts and tariffs that rais prices and he built a little bit of wall at the southern border not 2,300 miles of of border wall just a tiny fraction of that that's that's what he did you have probably heard many times on this program that what Joe Biden built as president Compares only to what Franklin Dela Roosevelt did in 12 years in the presidency before there were term limits for president President Roosevelt's revolutionary program that changed everything about the way we live in America was called the New Deal the most poverty-stricken group of Americans in the 1930s were the elderly President Roosevelt created Social Security and provided a Financial Security minimum for people over 65 that never existed before President Roosevelt enacted the first minimum wage massive infrastructure spending all over the country that provided jobs and improved communities all over everywhere we live in this country Donald Trump kept promising an infrastructure bill when he was president and kept having infrastructure weeks and did absolutely nothing the Trump Administration didn't write one sentence sentence of an infrastructure Bill never mind have a vote on it there should be a name for what Joe Biden Did Franken Roosevelt came up with the name the New Deal when he was running for president for the first time in 1932 in the middle of the worst depression in the 20th century he promised America what he called a new deal for the American people the phrase caught on right away and reporters began referring to the New Deal in the first year of the res presidency and we still talk about it today as the most important turning point in the definition of what was possible in American government what Joe Biden did should have a name like that everyone knew what you meant when you were talking about the New Deal in 1934 or 1944 or 1954 our next guest has a name say if we if it can catch on I hope it does you know uh uh first of all I think it's a Biden turn of phrase but also the only way to really capture uh the transformative Investments that have been made certainly in transportation infrastructure the part that I've had the honor and privilege of working on but also the the removal of lead pipes that have been poisoning children for decades in this country the extension of broadband internet access to millions of households the improvements to the energy grid uh unlike some of the other moments in our infrastructure history that had a single uh pie of infrastructure that was changed think of the interstate highway program under Eisenhower a massive achievement but it was one thing the Transcontinental Railroad under Lincoln but this is a little bit hard to characterize because it touches so many things that the only thing that all of those different kinds of Investments really have in common is the scale the scope the imagination and that recognition that confronted with a crisis uh in in some ways as FDR was confronted with a crisis President Biden responded with a level of ambition saying let's take the tools of government use them to solve both short-term and long-term problems and that's what this decade of infrastructure is all about how how do we get voters to understand who did that this fundamental thing all they get in the voting booth is a name and they don't know why are things running so much better uh in my town or in my my my state because of things that people in government did might be might be your governor might be your mayor you've been a mayor you you've been trying to get that credit for yourself I'm sure as mayor sometimes yeah and you know we we have been out there working with Governors and Mayors because one of my favorite rules of uh uh political mathematics is somehow it works out that if two willing parties Share Credit for something like this each party walks away with two-thirds of the credit and it can be a beautiful thing of course we've also seen people trying to take credit for projects that opposed I mean really uh you know I try not to be cynical about this but again and again we we've seen often it's been Republican members of the house uh you know telling their constituents I delivered this project it was let me ask you something about the mechanics this right because you you've got Transportation huge piece of the infrastructure bill and the way I know the way that works I mean I was I was also the uh Chief of Staff of the environment Public Works Committee in the Senate which has a lot to do with the public works aspects of uh the infrastructure Bill and so I know when you pass one of these laws the the transportation secretary gets calls gets letter letters from members of Congress saying can you please make sure this project in my district in my town gets funded have you been getting those requests as secretary from Republicans who voted against this all the time yeah absolutely yeah why why why don't you just run out to a microphone every day oh it's so tempting it's so tempting but you know the President Biden uh made it clear to this Administration that we're not going to punish Americans constituents for the behavior of their representative the people who voted against it at well we're certainly going to call them out uh and and we have and and uh you know I think it's important just to remind everybody that this infrastructure package didn't just happen we we talk about it now like it couldn't have been any other way it was it was three years ago this week that President Biden signed it but you know three years and two months ago everybody in this town was writing political obituaries for that legislation again and again there were including me and and the reason I was and i' I've said this to the president is that when I worked in the Senate uh what you guys did was impossible it couldn't have been done we all would have said to you well sorry we we don't know the votes we can't get there you know it's a 50-50 Senate I mean when I when I we used to have 57 Democrats and struggle to get things done uh in a much more Cooperative environment you know and so I didn't know what play to run to get these done get this done but Joe Biden did and and once I saw that happen I just sat back not knowing what you were capable of next and you kept doing it yeah it turns out that uh his decades in the senate in in public service really came in handy as you know I'm somebody who's a big believer in what a new generation can bring in terms of leadership but I've got to say I know there were times when I thought okay I guess it's it's not gonna happen and he kept coming back people said oh it's foolish for you to come back after one version of it collapsed he brought people back for another version I sat there in the Oval Office watching him with Republican and Democrat ratic members of the house and the Senate not giving up and sure enough this happened uh but you know what's really striking is in the same way that we had legislators tried to take credit for projects that they voted against in the last few years I think for the next four years we're going to see an entire administration's version of that because of course uh president Trump did not deliver an infrastructure package and he opposed the one that that uh President Biden delivered but for the next four years uh you know there are going to be more and more projects that we started the nature of these projects is they very rarely get done in one year or even three years many of them get done in five or seven years they will be creating jobs and improving lives not just during the next four years but even beyond that and so I think it will continue to be important to frankly communicate that we will have handed the new president there's projects in here that are 10 years away from completion I mean when those bridges go across the Cape Cod Canal for example which I happen to know about which got funded which people have been trying to do something about for years you know unless it's named the Biden bridge I don't think people are going to get it is there a way I I've tried to describe the New Deal in you know two minutes uh and I've come up with versions of it from time to time and I and and there's been so many books written about it and I think we all kind of who know about it have a handle on it we can talk about how that it includes all sorts of uh extensions of humanity that we didn't have before like child labor laws everything from child labor laws to Giant infrastructure projects is there a way of describing the big deal that that you could get across to people in a in a clear way I remember like LBJ he brought electricity to rural Texas that one thing when he was in Congress and I brought electricity to rural Texas that was easy to remember and you turned on your every time you turned on your light you knew it was LBJ this is 68,000 projects around the country how do you explain it yeah there there's no way to characterize it just one project at a time I did the math and I think if if I were to visit Three projects a day for the rest of my life I still would not live long enough to see all of them so I think a better way to think of it is is is what they all have in common not just these projects but the other steps that that have taken place under the president's leadership uh things in our department like uh Aviation consumer protection making it easier to be an airline passenger uh things that took place outside of my department that that have made everyday life easier from getting hearing AIDS over the counter to uh the ftc's rule that now says that if you sign up for something like a gym membership or a newspaper subscription it ought to be just as e easy to cancel what all these things have in common here's how I think of it uh three things one recognizing the scale of the problems that face the country two uh recognizing that government not always big government but the right kind of government can be a a solution if used in the right way and then three not being afraid to to actually bring those tools to bear in a big way and that's certainly what happened in the infrastructure space when we got here the president was confronted with some of the most enormous and uh and multiplied problems ever to hit our transportation system it's almost easy to forget just how dramatic it was like right now we're focused on uh getting the airlines to treat passengers better back then it was making sure the airline sector did not completely go out of business in this country so it was recognizing that set of problems using government Tools in this case uh making sure that the there was a rescue to keep th those Airlines in business and then turning around as we faced a new set of problems like delays cancellations uh customer service headaches and using our tools as a department to confront those so yes there are so many different things that went on in this Administration that I think volumes will be written for the rest of my lifetime uh about their impact but they do have that pattern in common a colossal problem a belief in the potential of good government to make a difference and then a willingness to go big you know we did uh big infrastructure deals in the 1990s the acronym for the last big one was iced tea that I worked on but we you know you always leave stuff on the table that didn't get done and and you guys came along and it took decades but picked up stuff that had been left on the table for over 20 years and got it we have to squeeze in a break right here we're going to be back the Biden tunnel it is the most complex infrastructure project funded by Joe Biden it will provide a third tunnel across the Hudson river between New York City and New Jersey one of the most important in Interstate links in the country as the vehicular traffic has increased across the Hudson River over the last 50 years there has not been one additional Lane added to that Crossing New York Senator Daniel Patrick mouran for 24 years in the Senate was a champion of a tunnel that never got built so were some New York Governors New York City Mayors no one could get it done no one then came Joe Biden construction began this year on the new tunnel for the next hundred years people will be driving through that tunnel and they will have no idea who did that they should call it the Biden tunnel secretary Pete Buddha judge is back with us and you know Donald Trump is going to take credit for that tunnel absolutely I mean look we've created a pipeline of good project s that are going to play out over the next few years when I called projects like the Hudson River tunnel the cathedrals of our infrastructure I didn't say that just because it's a poetic word for something big I said it bearing in mind that the thing about the world's great Cathedrals is uh the hands that laid the Cornerstone of those Cathedrals weren't even around a hundred years later when other hands laid the Keystone and while some of the projects were funding like a streetscape project to make a intersection safer really can be done in one or two Construction Seasons others even working at warp speed are the work of a decade or more but President Biden deserves the credit for making these things happen because so many others before him promised and failed to get it done I'll admit one of the few times that I was fooled by Donald Trump was when I was a mayor and he said he was going to do a big infrastructure package I thought why not it's good politics uh both parties would like to see it happen why wouldn't he do that and plus it seems to be something he talks about all the time of course they didn't um but Joe Biden did and it was an amazing thing to watch especially because the bipartisan nature of that deal really specifically Vindicated his model of how to get things done in this town at a time when people said that's just not how it works anymore and what's resulted is even more things that people said were impossible have happened of course they said it was politically impossible to do this but another thing that they told me growing up was impossible was for union jobs and manufacturing jobs to come back to the IND industrial Midwest in places like where I grew up they told us that was all done we didn't even think that that was governmental action we just thought well private Enterprise does a factory here or they don't or they move a factory the idea that government could get in here and influence what Private Industry is doing was something that people weren't even really thinking about before this presidency in any serious way you weren't allowed to to use terms like industrial strategy and yet the results of the industrial strategy are that fact factories were rising out of the prairie in places like Northern Indiana where I grew up in Michigan where I live now and and Kentucky and Kansas where I visited facilities that would not be happening if it weren't for things like the inflation reduction Act and the chips and science Act and the infrastructure can I just stop you on that point for a moment just because of the politics of it because we're trying to teach both what's been done here and the political implications when you say rising out of the Prairie somewhere in what I've been reading about this it indicated something like 80% of the benefits of that kind of activity are happening out there in the Republican PR where by the way there's room there's plenty of room to throw up a new Factory it isn't easy to throw up a new Factory in Los Angeles County there's not a lot of room but out there there's plenty and that is where it's happening that's right and and and you're not going to get any political credit for that well right now uh people in the Building Trades in some of these communities are telling me they're having the biggest year they've ever had just building these fact but yeah they're not even online yet actually most of these major factories and facilities are slated to come online in 20126 some in 25 many in 2027 so I think we're going to have a responsibility and I certainly you know whatever I might be doing by way of a day job I will be reminding everybody who will listen and quite a few people who maybe won't that these things are happening because Joe Biden made sure that American have a seat here anytime you wanted to remind people of this uh you said something uh I think Monday at your alma mater uh a version of which I have been saying to people uh much less eloquent version and I think this is one of the fun things that people experience uh listening to you on TV listening to you in public forums is you say things that are already in people's minds in certain ways but much more eloquently and sharply and the point and this is an example this is one you said in moments like this our Salvation will come from the local and state level what did you mean by that well I think there's a a lot of frustration even despondency about where Washington is headed although I believe Amer there put I've heard that but there's more first of all there are a lot of good uh people in Washington who will be stepping up many of whom are about to be on this program I saw them on the way in uh in the house and the Senate but also there's a lot more to the political and policy life of this country than Washington I mean part of it's my orientation having emerged as a mayor uh but also the people that I see doing the work on the ground in our cities in our communities in our states where and and look sometimes this has been an irritant for the center left just how much power in this country is not uh National but state and local right now I think it's going to be a very healthy thing because we're going to see communities uh stepping forward looking for for for foree hi bye B foree then wa spee for spee what what you tell MO