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for more on what came out of that briefing today we're joined by the South African Democratic teachers union uh and that is mugua malua thank you very much for your time this afternoon now there were a number of issues that the minister touched on in the briefing in Petoria today that looks to appreciate teachers across the country but I suppose one of the most important issues she touched on and she said that there is a commission that has been established to look into issues like this one that there has been a changing environment that teachers are operating in and that is because the changing behavior of Learners talk us through the environment that teachers in South Africa are operating in and how they've had to deal with that alongside the behavior of Learners which has changed dramatically as well let me let me uh greet you and greet you all your views at home and thank you for this opportunity the situation in our school is very dire uh you have a teacher who is facing a grade two larner a grade two learner is 8 years old and that particular grade two larner refuses literally uh to do homework refuses to take any instruction from a teacher so teachers are working under very difficult circumstances um as we speak and majority of them basically are going to leave the teaching fraternity on the basis that there is lack of discipline lack of support lack of cooperation and so for that's the landscape of Education we're finding ourself in uh today so the teachers as we celebrate them in in October yes indeed they are parents because when we were trained we took a a a a deliberate um you know oath that we are in local parenes therefore we need to care for our children this is what our teachers are doing majority of them in our schools but the environment needs to change the environment needs that we work as a community as a society to ensure that we deal with this particular lack of discipline lack of respect violence against teacher violence against the students and and and obviously the attacks that we see on a daily basis are as a results of age society that is violent on its own it is not about the school it's about the society and let's speak a little bit more about the support that teachers would need uh to deal with unruly Learners like you say the violence increasing uh at various levels of age I mean an 8-year-old you say uh being disruptive at that age already the kind of support that um uh schools or teach teachers would need in this regard but also Learners because one would assume that the circumstances that a learner comes from May determine the attitude that they present in the classroom true uh the background of Alena from the home where she comes from or he comes from determine basically the per the progress that particular L is going to make if you come from a home that they they they say education um is an enabler and education has got to be taken and the opportunities given to you you need to grab them with both hands that particular lner despite the environment at the level of the school being problematic dire and so forth that particular L has resilient that particular lner is going to go through that particular situation so the support we need is very simple we need the parents to give us the support by making sure that Learners understand that education is a duty loving your study is a duty we have a duty for those who fought for us who liberated us to where we are today to free education in our school we have got to do any just simple thing just study and study it's a duty for us to pay back for the parents that are working so hard for us we need to pay back them it's a debt that we have and we have to pay it as students and therefore they have to do that the second support level that we need basally it is that the Department of Social Development and the Department of Education have got to work together so we can share in the social services that are there because we don't have enough social workers we don't have enough occupational therapist in our schools where we are able to detect a problem of you know hearing impairment eye impairment or any other behavioral problem or you know you know slowness in terms of development those we cannot alone to them we need the support from our employer and the government as a whole so we need that we need the support from the sgb the sgb can't be interested in how they get the tenders and then who has go to get the post and all this that we see posted it is an indictment for us having F to making sure that we free our country and then we have got people who are enslaving others by selling post including the parents I mean is parents you are selling post together with the teachers there what do you hope to have as a school to have a principal who have got a post and you think your children are going to get proper education no it can't be we need their support they need to stay away from these particular things so that we can have a better education and quality education so we need books that is one support that we have at home can we encourage our Society to donate readers to our children because the child who reads at home the child who is able to read will then be able to better and their conduct and their behavior begins to change at the level of the school this is research this is what we know as the teachers that if we get those particular resources we will change the landscape in our schools another uh situation that looks to better the uh learning process for the Learners um apart from the support systems that you've just mentioned there is this aable that has been a contentious one but ultimately some are arguing that it it really just takes away the exclusionary um um uh powers that sgbs had in terms of certain admissions that they would allow in their schools in districts um and it opens up the doors for uh access to Learners across the country uh what are your thoughts on the bill and the arguments that have been put forward by the likes of The Da that are now taking it to court well we as s are happy that the um the portfolio committee has finally close this particular chapter there was enough public hearing uh serious consultation as required by the law we appreciate that we also appreciate the fact that some of the contentious issues have been resolved in particular this one of real admission and access to school this is a constitutional issue that you cannot as an sgb really use discrimination of a language discrimination of any other things against the and you know when when all of us were happy that we have a breakthrough in 1994 we trusted each other we thought that all of us are going to work together to build this particular country but we realized that there are some who are still using the apart benefits uh because they benefited from apartate to BU others from accessing the schools to the extent that they would want to resuce their school into one um Language School whereas we are a multilingual Society Multicultural societ but my problem basically it is that this particular bill um as it is even if they take it to court we have to fight to have social cohesion to making sure that we integrate our schools we democratize our schools we cannot be you know having people today like the da that is still fighting for upate you know infrastructure and a setup unfortunately and this is unfortunate it is that maybe we rushed too much into reconciliation and thought that people are ready to accept that they have wrong us that they have oppressed and degraded us and therefore they will show remorse and therefore they'll come closer to us that's the danger that is a lesson that don't forgive a person who doesn't want to ask for forgiveness we forgive the likes of The Da and the NP and we thought that no these are the people that were going to live together but here they are clamoring wanting apartate to live forever in our country will not accept it they will still lose the court case even if they don't lose the court case we'll make sure that Learners are admitted in any school in this country that's a very important point to raise then I suppose we will leave it to the courts to decide on a Way Forward before we ventilate these issues uh any further Mr Mana but another issue uh that has been lamented on in the school system and I'm sure as satu is very worried about it as well is the infrastructure under which Learners are forced to learn um and uh this for years has been something that the department of basic education is grappling with whether it be pitler Trin uh the lack of clean water in schools uh electricity and uh um structures under which they can learn um your thoughts on the strides that have been made by the department of basic education but also what needs to be done for teachers and Learners to ensure that they are safe when they going to school well in terms of the infrastructure we cannot say we are happy that in 30 years of our democracy we still have other children and other teachers who are working in schools that did not have um you know um um electricity that they they work in the school that does doesn't have water a school that do not have the necessary sanitation and obviously while the Department of Education says they're going to make sure that they work up until the end of March next year to eradicate you know pit TRS to eradicate M schools and so forth we do not believe that the progress is worth celebrating because we are supposed to have no school operating in those particular kind of an environment we're supposed to have each and every in this country having sanitation because sanitation is about dignity it's about our people it's about knowing very well that Apper and colonialism has designated the value Which is far below any bar for African people hence they have accepted that the P train is is necessary and therefore it must be appreciated we cannot have a system that appreciate things that we forced upon us and have taken away our dignity and we cannot celebrate that today so we we we feel that we need to make sure that come the end of the year we must have a proper proper H you know account by the minister to then say we will say goodbye to pit Lans we will say goodbye to infrastructure that is not safe going to school H we again depend on our parents we depend on the community the violence and the crime is committed in the society and then the school being a microcosm of the society find itself having been a targets of those people who are there work with the police as the communities let let's form groups let's form clubs that are able to monitor that our schools are safe we have got a campaign that we say I'm a school fan we expect churches we expect young people's clubs we expect B you recycling clubs to form part of this particular campaign and say I am going to be the fan of my school I am going to make sure that the environment around my school is is drug free is Bully free this is the society that we need to be building at the end of the day that cares the society that works together and not this particular society that the da is clamoring to you know exclusion and separatism that we find ourself in we don't want that society and then finally if you will Mr muu Mana there is an issue that the minister also spoke about uh the alarming levels of teenage pregnancies and while uh Young Learners are getting pregnant outside of school premises uh there have been scary instances where teachers are engaging in sexual relationships with Learners what kind of conversations are you having as a union and other related stakeholders around this issue on educating uh and protecting Learners uh from um um increasing instances of this nature um in our schools this is a very um woring situation about teenage pregnancy um isue of sexual harassment or sexual you know uh relationship between the teacher and our Learners in our country it's a woring situation and as as as a union we are the only UN in South Africa that have signed a Collective Agreement with the employer to protect these particular girl children that find themselves having been abused assaulted by those that they regard as parents at the level of the school that they must no longer be subjected to this Gru and multiple um hearings that we used to have in our country now they have put a single hearing by a qualified commissioner where they cannot be able to buy the departmental official because they were colluding in terms of this particular thing where they cannot be able to buy but we are still seated with a situation where parents are being bored despite the fact that particular child has reported that I'm sexually molested assaulted by a parent at the level of the school being my teacher the parents are being bought not to come forward and making sure that that particular L present evidence again let me go back to the community and say this is not the community we fought for we didn't want to build this type of a community that parents would really regard the 3,000 r that they've been bought and therefore they sell the life of a child who has been raped because this is a statutory rape because the child is younger than 16 years of old of age and therefore he's a school child and therefore this has got to really come to an end we have what we call uh men as partners as program of the organization on a on an annual basis where we engage in a conversation with ourself as men and say are we still living up to our calling that being of caring and protect ing our children at the level of our schools and therefore we need to go out there and then be able to multiply the number of teachers who who still care and expose that do not care and making sure that we're having a situation in our school where the profession is protected against this type of situation so yes we are working very hard to making sure that we are able to root out and eradicate um from each root this sexual um you know assault on our children thank you very much for your insights on the briefing Ed by Minister Angie M this afternoon that is satus muu manua joining us this afternoon to speak about the various issues that the basic Department of Education faces continuously but also some of the strides that have been made in improving the learning and the teaching space in South Africa