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good afternoon a warm welcome to you all and i hope you are keeping well and staying safe at this time my name is joyce o'connor i chaired the digital group here at the iiea we were really really delighted to welcome you to today's webinar towards each european digital sovereignty this is the first event in a series of events of a new iiea project europe's digital futures this project will be a year-long series of events and research to explore european digital sovereignty but today i'm really delighted to welcome back dr roberto viola to the iiea a very distinguished keynote speaker today and we're very pleased that you have joined us out of your busy schedule as you know dr barola is director general of dg connect and has a really very broad brief because his brief covers communication networks content and technology so you're very welcome again roberto in his presentation dr viola will give us an overview of the concept of european digital sovereignty from the perspective of the european commission roberto will outline the commission's planned regulatory measures and the eu funding mechanisms that will help promote europe's digital sovereignty roberto will speak for 15 to 20 minutes and then we will take questions from you our audience you can join the discussion as you know by using the q a function at the end at the bottom for your screen please feel free to send in your questions during the presentations and i'll come to them once roberto has finished his presentation i'd very much appreciate if you give your name and designation when you're asking a question a reminder that today's presentation and question and answers are on the record and please feel free to join our discussion on twitter with the handle at iieea it goes without saying that digital and emerging technologies like blockchain ai iot are impacting our lives on a daily basis technology can help redefine problems but also help us reimagine the future and we know that areas like digital sovereignty is emerging as an increasingly prominent concept in the european union and has triggered a lively debate for all member states but particularly for small open economies like ireland where the global digital industries is particularly important the implementation of digital sovereignty will be significant as i said our distinguished speaker dr viola has a also a very distinguished career to date prior to being director general of dg connect he was the formerly chair of the european radio spectrum policy group a member of the board of the european regulatory group he also served as director of the regulation department and technical director of aecom he served in various positions including head of telecommunications and broading broadcasting satellite services at the european space agency roberto we're really looking forward to your presentation and thank you very much again for being with us yeah joyce i hope you can see and listen to me well i can very much thank you so thank you very much for the invitation it's really a pleasure to join again iieea in one of the events and unfortunately this time it's a it's a virtual event well it's real because we are all connected but we are digitally connected and to a little bit ago in this journey of understanding together what digital sovereignty or whatever word we want to use for being digital savvy means i would like to start from a dystopian perspective actually a dystopian present so we i asked you to do an exercise with me and to think of you one year ago and then to see the world today people wearing masks every being everybody at home working from home connected like this and then you would say wow this is a very nice movie things like this do not happen in reality so i think we we really really could not have anticipated what happened there were weak signs here and there that our society did not have all the ingredients for resilience inside but as always with weak signs and always with the crisis those signs are not easily recognized until they come and then it's too late to have a systemic response and then you have an emergency response and that's what happened i mean we are coping now with an emergency that unfortunately still with us and we all hope uh it will be over we don't know when it will be over and we have found our society to have weak spots we have found ourselves less savvy than what we thought we should have been and we also have found that uh having a really relied upon global value chains and global manufacturing chains when it comes to emergency sometimes you have basic needs that need to be fulfilled and you don't know how to fulfill that from basic protective equipments from basic uh pharmaceutical products so i think europe has a large continent and when you look at europe digital market the market is the wealthiest of the world i mean has been a little bit i mean always looking at the perspective that the divisional labor division responsibility collective effort in the world would have solved every problem which is of course a way that even in this dystopian present we should not abandon at all openness is the key for a wealthy and well-functioning society and we will be defending openness of markets and technologies services uh even if we speak about gaining a little bit more of empowerment for our citizens in our society in terms of having more resilience when it comes to i mean supplying services and goods to our citizens so this is the type of reflection where you need to keep the balance right between openness and the need to have a society which is empowered the other element i would say is the responsibility that is on europe uh to be one of the major contributors of the wealth and the well-being of our society in the world not just in europe and that means many things first of all it means that when it comes to the basic research and the basic development we need to continue contribute to breakthrough innovation and breakthrough innovation does not come from private companies so though private companies are the ultimate one that would exploit it or sometime there will be a sparkle somewhere from an innovator that works in the private sector but it's an ecosystem of innovation that you need and that's one of the big failures of this crisis we have discovered that i mean a private research without an underpinning and strong underpinning from the public side it's not enough we thought that we had all sorts of ai solutions we discovered that the ai is useful it uh it actually we deployed it in hospitals but as far from being the game changer that we thought we would be we would be offering now i'm sure a few years from now it will be the game changer but i'm equally sure that ai medicine ai in public services ai in terms of safety of our transport system this is something which is a responsibility of our society to invest on we cannot just rely on private companies to do that because that's not the job uh why the job of the private sector is for sure to exploit this and to go on and propose more and better innovative products the other element where we have a responsibility it's the rule making now some outside the europe speak about the brussels effect which in other words is what we managed to do uh in terms of the digital rules of the governor society and economy when it comes for instance from things like privacy with the gdpr the fair use of the internet with the net neutrality law which exists in europe doesn't exist in many other parts of the world the respect and protection of fundamental rights in general so this element which is again letting market forces to offer services but having a public governance oversight on the fundamental rights of citizens this you can call it the brussels model and it remains the the model of reference in the world and that's a bit the spirit in which we are present the two twin regulations we are presented at the end of this year which are the digital service act and the digital market act the first being our services are being offered to citizens and the second is what is the relationship between those service providers platforms and the rest of the business uh which are using those platforms to actually do business so these are complementary goals so the two d's if you like to well actually then at the 30 which i will mention in a second so this uh digital services digital market act go in the direction to say digital economy is transformative digital economy society is going to be our new normal but at the same time there's something which is not right and something which is not right is the private enforcement of fundamental rights that cannot be uh so in order for things in society to be in equilibrium things where i mean there's ultimately constitutional guarantee on the freedom of speech on the freedom i mean to express ideas within the czech imbalances that the constitutional modern liberal constitutional office that's for the state level that's for europe that for the member states that's for governments i mean to offer services to to respect certain rules to offer within rules that's for companies and i think in the digital economy this equilibrium uh has been a bit lost because everything came so quickly and so transformative that things got a bit confused at a certain point we should decide that the citizen access to social media can speak who should not i mean in in the real world clearly we have answers which are constitutional are called constitutional guarantees so what is guaranteed in the real world what is illegal in the real world should be also like this in the digital world and that's the essence of these two acts so that means constitutional guarantees should be enforceable also in the digital world and what is illegal in the real world is illegal in the digital world and that what is what i call normal and that was like find the part of the new normal a society which after this pandemic will rely heavily on digital systems in order to live better to be more resilient and also to work and live in a way that is more uh near to what are our aspirations that maybe is to live in a nice countryside but still be part of the corporation this again this is not a dystopian dream this is a utopian dream that is more and more coming becoming a reality the third d in regulation is the data governance act that also we present at the end of the year last year which is about data sharing and data sharing has been a bit the quick spot of this pandemic from the very beginning in terms of first of all having the right data of what was going on imagine we would have known much more in advance at the end of last year what was going really on in china uh imagine we would have been sharing much more information in the various areas of the world much quicker we are trying to share as quickly as we can information for instance on the variation of the various on the mutation but i mean data repositories genetic databases where all these it's available are in the making but they are halfway and that's not just pandemic this is about our society imagine i mean sharing data much more data about how the we move and how we use transport to make our transfer system safer and more green much more data about the consumption of electricity at our homes to save money but also to have a better planet all of this means that the data allows the society to be better to be more resilient so the data governance act it's about this it's about governments sharing more data with companies it's about a company sharing data among ourselves without having one company conflict of interest with others it's about citizens if they want to donate data to research to improve our society so with these three days we hope to contribute not only to a better society and economy in europe but a better economy society in the world and to come back is to the other element of resilience and the new normal it's through digital technologies we hope that our society will be better as i said and for me better means that what we have learned during this crisis and what we have gained of the crisis so more digital savings more freedom to organize our work will become the norm but in order to do that we need the investments i mean just not uh talks like this are enough and that's why the recovery of europe has been not just a talk show but has been a very serious decision taken by exo state government last july that i mean lined up 2.4 trillions euros for the recovery of europe part of this is the so-called recovery plan which is sent out by the computer commission but i mean organized by the member states and as you know legally 20 percent of the recovery plan should go in the direction of improving our digital society and economy so uh i'm i'm not sure uh that i can give a precise meaning to the world sovereignty and i would discard all the the bad feelings that uh people in the in this event would have about sovereignty somebody imposing something on somebody else i i when if the meaning is digital empowerment that starts with the research and development starts with investment infrastructure and looks at things like you mentioned for instance using blockchain digital identity using new technologies such as quantum or ai supercomputing to improve our society well i can live with this and i happy to say this is it i mean if it is about closing borders to cooperation uh creating i mean a kind of iron ivory castle well that's not what we have in mind uh and when it comes to the rules once again if sovereignty again means empowerment that's what we have in mind empowerment of the citizens of companies of having a real society of equals as much as possible of course the society is difficult to equalize everything it's almost utopian but i mean you can make sure through public intervention the distances are less and if this is the meaning then this is all about the 3ds the digital service are the digital market act and the digital governance act so that's the effort the effort is to have a society which is more resilient a society which is open and to take up our responsibility as public powers to do what public power should do in terms of research development and our responsibility in the world if this is the meaning of digital sovereignty then i'm happy to use even this third so this in terms of my introductory remarks this is what i wanted to say and i'm very much happy to to share the rest of the event in the dialogue with eu joyce and with the rest of the audience uh thank you very much roberto i i think it's it's very interesting how you you focused on the the power and empowerment and the power of citizens to become more involved in their society through digital i think that's that's really and emphasizing the resilience and the opportunity it's a very positive view and not looking at an enclosed protective society rather in fact enabling things to open up and your mention of the 3ds these you know the digital service act the market act and the date of governance act puts a framework on that as well so that's that's really interesting so thank you very much for that tour de force because you've brought an awful lot together with both the technology the responsibility and the empowerment of the citizen but also the responsibility of the state and the private sector so um i'll i'll turn it over now to the audience i see questions coming in and i just yeah here's one from um seamus allen who's our digital policy researcher here at the iaea um and he asked the question how does europe plan to balance the promotion of greater data sharing with the data protection and privacy standards yeah this is a very good question uh now i i i don't think frankly that one is the enemy or the other so that the more you protect the less you share or vice versa i think again we have to start from uh who was the same who's the center of data generation i mean if me as an individual through my sensors and my movement i generate data i think i have the right to decide whether i want to give this data for a better society or i want to i mean have services offered to me with this data or not so this empowerment is the fundamental element of the gdpr and if exercise correctly in a way that citizens understand what they are doing not as a kind of bureaucratic reflex can be the center of a data saving society and this is one of the pillars of the data governance act uh the data donation uh it's it's a concept that is absolutely allowed by the gdpr probably not very clear uh uh how to exercise it it's a bit like when you want to donate your money i mean that's perfectly okay but i mean there are public schemes to guarantee that the people that are offering you to donate the data for a course they are not actually offering a scam this is a real donation scheme for a real purpose and here the data governance act is a bit the same give confidence to the citizens that those data organizations the donation organization are serious uh so by exercising their rights of privacy and the rights of ownership the data generated that by themselves in and then moving into organizations that can actually allow citizens to donate the data we think we go one step further in the debate and the same applies i mean to things which are not personal data but they maybe they belong to a an entity being a private entity a citizen like i mean an object in the house a connected option or they belong to a company what could be the reflex to generate the virtual circle by which data is put in common and everybody put in the data in common gets the benefit out of it for us the key of this is about avoiding conflict of interest that one of the participants of this clip so to say has a need an agenda by which i mean hijacks the data of the others for its own purpose that's why we are pushing the data for neutral programming of course it's not an obligation if you like conflict of interest in and you are happy with this fine fine for for europe so the the key to resolve this uh tension or this equilibrium between privacy protection intellectual property and sharing for us the answer we give in the data governance factor is empowering companies and citizens to make their choice and to find organizations that could actually make sure that they can exercise those choices but it's a very good question thank you roberto um we've got a question i think from gareth blaney chair of comrade garland's communications regulator do you understand that he'd like to ask the question live is that right no is that okay no yes got it yeah gareth are you there hello no i might have misinterpreted that maybe he'll come back later um we've got a comment on a question from turlock denahan from ibec uh turlock says you're very modest roberto about your role in innovation that you've contributed an awful lot to us we've got a message a question from peter mcloone who's a member of the board of the iaea and he asked the question have eu member states fully agreed a common position and approach to digital sovereignty or in effect will each country have to develop their own strategic approach to protect uh citizens well i i think uh there's a desire that the digital future europe it's a common future and the indicator of this is the common will of heads of state of government to place digital at the center of the recovery efforts for europe and the second is that there's been a call last october to the european commission to say you come up in march with the bodies division in the next 10 years so our digital will develop and uh so we are given this task uh 10 for the so state government to reflect on what are our suggestions as an indication of the understanding that digital knows no borders digital requires massive investment to be transformative some of the investments are local for instance when it comes to dji infrastructure of force i mean you have to deploy those infrastructure locally but the gigantic are in the effort that is necessary for transformative technologies except the one i mentioned you mentioned i mean blockchain ai quantum those kind of effort not even the largest countries in terms of gdp can afford it in europe it's only by working together that we can really make the difference so i think again if the meaning of share sovereignty's responsibility share the empowerment in in the common construction of a european future i would say the there's a common understanding of where we have to go but it's also clear that this doesn't mean that member states can forgive uh the homework to do when for instance you look at the digital administration in our recovery plan we insist the digital administration it's linked with reforms it makes little sense to digitize bureaucracy it makes a lot of sense to simplify processes to have as you were saying joyce kitchen table democracy so that is available to everyone services the government as a service and then of course use the best of digital technologies to do that but if you take a bureaucratic process and your your intention is to keep it to preserve it forever and to digitize it then of course we will really miss the mark of having a more resilient and more future proof society thank you roberto i've got the question from gareth blaney and he asks can we work more closely with the new administration in the u.s to facilitate better regulation of digital platforms definitely definitely this is the intention of the european commission we have published a policy document as we call it a communication where we said exactly this in our policy communication that our wish and our president repeated this last week in parliament our wish is to be digitally engaged with the new administration we actually made a quite a concrete proposal to create an high level uh traded technology panel to discuss the interlinkage between tradition regulation digital technologies and to have a fully fledged agenda for cooperation and when it comes to the digital rules we are more than happy to actually contribute together with the new administration united states as i said that with world order where rule or law prospector citizens it's the norm okay thank you very much of a question here from andrew gilmore from the iiea eu member states recently agreed a joint statement on a european cloud federation can you give a sense of the role and importance that a european crowd federation guy may are expected to play in the use of data in europe yeah thank you for this question gilmore uh it's the the the goal as i was saying in my introductory remarks is to have a data saving society and of course to be data savvy data have to be somewhere so what uh we think it should be i mean the way data organized is that of course there should be some regulation we discuss this but also there should be sound technology and when looking at the future of data processing and storage we see that the world becomes much more distributed than this today so from large data centers and data processing facility we will move to a more distributed collective brain if you like and in this vision technology vision which i mean translates in things like i mean blending uh high performance computing and what are called edge computing distributed and centralized cloud systems we want to give our technical technological contribution and also a greener way of processing storing data so new technologies that are efficient allow to process and store the data closer to the users and are open that's the other important thing no single vendor should have the monopoly of data storage or data processing companies banks corporations citizens small enterprises should have the freedom of choice should have the possibility to port their data and their service to another cloud provider if they wish so and that's the sense of the cloud alliance with the member states i mean to do to realize a distributed cloud federated cloud system open and possible also and that's also a very important technological objective green thank you again roberto question from paul colleen from the nsai and he asked you very i think quite a complex question um roberto could roberto give a brief high-level summary of the core and differences between the 3ds data governance digital services and digital markets act in the context of what he describes of your nice digital empowerment framework i'll try that's right so let's start with the first d i am not necessarily the importance order or dlc well this the word s says it all it's about services in particular intermediation services uh that are let's say all being offered to companies and citizens and they are the the problem to be solved is to maintain the pillars on which digital services uh are offered and that's something where ireland has been fighting for and we are all i mean in favor with with ireland on this and i would say there's a larger concert very large consensus in europe so you should not ask for a government permission to offer digital services you should place your company wherever you like in europe that's called the country of origin and the third element you should not be legally responsible for things you don't know and that's the key of hosting services because i mean otherwise it's the end of the cloud business it's the end of any data intermediation business but at the same time the world is going on so there are now companies that are not simply hosting providers these companies are also offering themselves the services so the more you are vertically integrated the more you take responsibility and liability for what you offer the more you are large the more you should have a responsibility in knowing your customers in so know your business customers being introduced the more you should have systemic control on your platform so the dsa provides an increasingly high level of intensity in terms of check and balances that the digital service provider have to do and of course it starts with a very minimum for a very small platform and it's quite a more articulated set of obligation when it comes to large platforms with the idea to make sure that those services are safe and they can be shared everywhere in europe the dma uh the the key word of course is m stands for market looks at the complementary as i said objective which is to make sure that the companies doing business on the platforms they can actually reasonably stay alive and do transactions without being cornered if i can use non-technical words to describe so basically we try to identify platforms that we call digital gatekeepers which are essential trading partners for all the other businesses so if a platform it's without this platform you cannot be in the digital ecosystem you can imagine a two or three platform very easily where if you are not present on this three platform you do not exist digitally then we call them gatekeeper which is not necessarily a best thing to say simply it's a statement of fact then for those kind of platforms we want some behavioral rules in terms of data sharing transparency of data transparency of the dealing with the other businesses which you would say it's almost common sense that this happens but i mean beside common sense and the reflex of every business to internalize as much as value that's of course attention and that's where the dma comes in with the public rules and we are clear obligations for those gatekeeping platforms to keep the other businesses as part of an open ecosystem and for the digital governance act the key word is g it stands for data's recoverance factor well actually there are two keywords data and governance and as i said it's about data sharing governments sharing more data with companies and citizens citizens sharing more data with companies and research organizations and companies sharing more data among themselves and there are three different mechanisms according to three three scenarios that facilitate data sharing no losers no winners i mean that's not for legislation to say that but i really i we hope much more data sharing thank you roberta you covered that extremely well like i tried it extremely well i have a question here from hugh lowe who's the iaea member and a former eu official and he asked the question shouldn't we be concerned that so much of the digital infrastructure particularly the wealth generation dimensions of it is more and more privately owned and virtually self-regulating worldwide well it's what i tried to cover in my um interpretatory remarks i said that we are concerned if this results in private enforcement of course constitutional principles i think we should not be concerned if a company is successful we should upload uh that's not the point and if a company abuses of the success there's competition law and that's regulation what has been increasingly difficult in this world that accelerated in terms of digitization is the relationship between citizens freedoms and those sectors those actors probably have been faced with responsibilities which are higher than what they should take as private companies and this is also because of the absence of rules let's face it so we cannot blame i mean large platforms if the rules are not clear and that's that's exactly what we are trying to do with the digital service art and digital market act it's a demographic process of course these are legislative proposals there will be a democratic process parliament european parliament and councillors it's it is like this in europe and producing legislation we'll have to vote and find an agreement and then we'll be at european law uh and this then will be respected and that will be the norm so my best wishes or success to everybody in the web also allow me to say the small ones not only the big ones but then my my hope is within a framework of clear rules and the rules again should not be privately set of course correlation is nice but i mean the basic fundamental rules should be public rules thank you roberto we've a question here from barry larry the government cio and he asked the question the implementation of pan-european contact tracing apps was not possible because countries has clearly different positions on the national need versus individual privacy debate leading to the centralized versus decentralized app issue how can we get shared technology solutions without shared positions on the meaning of data sovereignty at both state and individual level thank you very first of all many congratulations for the work you do and all the contribution you did to this debate let me say well actually all the tracing apps that use the same technology the so-called decentralized technology are today connected so the irish app works already in 14 member states and very soon will work in every member states with the exception of a couple that they've used a different technological solution and that's a bit of a pity that we although we went very far and now we can say that those technologies are there to help of course then depends very much on how does the country are youth and i think ireland by the way it's a country that did particularly well in tracing apps because they managed to link it with also prevention and in a way that has been accepted by civilizations and dressing ups in ireland i have the highest diffusion in europe so and irish citizens when it will be possible to travel a bit more they can use this app everywhere in europe thanks to the collective work not everything went well in this journey as you are saying and i think we should learn from this in particular i'm thinking about the one upcoming proposal where we should be really united and find a common solution which is the european digital identity i think to be a digital citizen you need to use your personal identity and again i don't think the private supply of digital identity is the solution it's it's of course an add-on but i mean as in the real life when you are born somebody takes care to give you an identity and you use the identity and the same should be on the web you should be using your own identity to do many things and of course you are the owner of the data that you generate by doing transaction with your identity in order to arrive this is the intention well has been a request of the exo state the european commission will present a proposal uh in june and of course we need a real good technical understanding with all the cios in europe with all the people that can contribute to arrive to a sound technical solution which is not divisive on the contrary which unites the intent thanks roberto for that of a another question from ann flanagan as has been mentioned digital sovereignty can be a divisive term and can unfair data localization restrictions or other artificial barriers to international business how can europe convey to the rest of the world that it is still open for business while stepping up in its global leadership of digital thank you and that's why frankly the word sovereignty i don't use it that you don't like yes yeah uh because it could be misleading uh i i think there's no continent more open than europe i mean frankly when you look around it's it's clearly like this and so that's why i mean sometimes reports confuses the reality i mean we have been the one in wwdu offering openness when it comes to data exchanges we have been the one championing uh trade agreements with the free flow data we have a very solid regulation inside the union for free flow of data of course there's uh there's a little part to the all of this being open doesn't mean to be naive and it takes in a trade agreement or in an agreement two to tango so if the other party it's interested to get your data but doesn't offer the same level of exchange or doesn't offer as it in some jurisdiction any kind of guarantees in terms of protecting the intellectual property right of companies in terms of cyber security then of course you have to be a bit careful i mean you will not i mean i'm sure we are all very open in our thinking with respect to our friends and families and people we know but i don't give the keys of my house to everybody in a light-hearted matter and here is a bit the same i think the keys of the house we can share with with many and we are doing that and we probably championed it but it's time we say to certain jurisdictions you behave that's the point you behave because i mean there are red lines that cannot be trespassed the the red line about respecting the fundamental rights the red line about not attacking with cyber attacks europe the red line of enforcing i mean inside the given jurisdiction the protection of uh fundamental basis at the same time i mean when when you discuss internationally there are principles but there is also the willingness to to move ahead and even in problematic jurisdiction we are willing to see how we can move ahead and how we can i mean make sure that there's more openness on both sides so the intention is absolutely to maintain an open entire dialogue and sharing data as much as we can but of course in doing so we have to be also a little bit savvy that we don't give the keys of our house to everybody that maybe some of this everybody is not to be trusted yes the good point i think roberto thank you uh a question from hannah dc from the iie and moving to artificial intelligence following the eu's white paper on ai last year new eu ai regulations are anticipated this year are you able to give any sense on what themes are emerging as the most important in regulation in ai from these consultations thank you and thank you and for this question because it gives me the opportunity to speak a little bit about ai that for time constraints i didn't do in my introductory remarks indeed we made quite some effort in the last years first of all to have experts and the the stakeholders are large to speak about whether we need rules and what kind of rules we need for ai and whether we should then present regulation as i said in my introductory remarks maybe the the eyes we see ai are a little bit different before the pandemic that if you remember the debate before the pandemic was ai's here everywhere and now we need to regulate it i i would say after the pandemic we should probably say ai is not here if ai would have been here could have been a welcome supplementary help to find the pandemic it's anecdotally here and there but the effort in terms of already still gigantic to to bring us to a society that can actually benefit from it and we should not deflect from this effort in the meantime there are emerging applications the more and more rely on ai and that i come to also the feedback we got from the whiteboard consultation we should not when it comes to regulation shoot in every direction just the fact that you say i should not be make something eligible for regulation however i think we still start maturing uh things that we collectively think it cannot be it cannot be and i'm also referring to some tragic events happened in the last few days that adolescents through ai aggregate are exploded on social media it cannot be that i mean you present fake information thanks to where i and you don't warn people that this is the case it cannot be that i mean you use uh face recognition in an indiscriminate way without any link to for instance a security need so there are certain cannot be uh and there are certain you should be cautious i mean uh for instance we have been deploying ai in hospitals as i said but in some cases the performance was not what was unanswered because doctors spotted the training dataset that was not the right one so i think in ai we can say out of the consultation we have seen three things happening really the dawns the things that should not happen the things where you have to give a bit of a warning i mean uh what we call a bit di risk applications and also the heads to state the government ask the commission be a bit more clear what are the risks nothing wrong i mean a car it's an high risk machine that's why you have standards and you have tests and whatever i mean so the fact that something is high risk doesn't mean that they should not be marketed i mean simply means attention and then the third element is the things that are not a risk not i mean forbidden and they should simply be allowed and in this case why there should be regulation so uh i think uh what is very clear from what the eso states told us and what is emerging from the debate there's a clear distinction between things that are okay things where we should be attentive and that's a bit the philosophy according to what the european council has asked us which we are looking to a limited set of rules that could be really useful in framing the future of ai in the direction as i said to have much more ai in our society and much more people the trust ai thank you roberta a question now from michael collins who's dg of the iaea and he asked the question what is the future between the eu and the uk in terms of cooperation in the digital space thank you for this question i think the future is uh is written in the agreement and in part it is to be still defined better i think the first answer is that uh uh there's a difference to be part of the digital single market to be out and that should be clear and that that we did not uh determined this future it was determined by the choice of the uk citizens and we have to respect this but at the same time we have to say very clearly it's one thing is the future digital future or a member state of the union one thing is the future relationship with someone that is sustainable to the union so there will be a difference uh at the same time being different and being i mean uh partners one the union the other external member state this does not mean the certain degree of cooperation is possible that's what the agreement is picturing i mean in terms of changing data in terms of selecting some areas in which common research can be can be undertaken in in terms of general regulatory cooperation and also some forms of uh let's say uh security cooperation which are also very welcoming the aerial cyber security all of this needs to be better detailed in the coming weeks and months but the intention of course is to maintain a good relationship but it will be a very very different relationship thank you for that um roberto a question here from ricardo rodriguez asking what exactly does european identity mean what benefits would bring for citizens well i mean let me give you one example which is uh i mean i hope he will come back soon uh ricardo that you want to rent a car uh somewhere now it's we laugh at it because they rented a car we really barely managed to get out of our house but i uh frankly let's open it that this will be the case in not so distant future and then you go there and then there was the the the long litany that we know give me your passport give me your driving license and where you live and the credit card and imagine instead you have a certified uh provider that i sold these attributes the driving license who you are your credit card in a way that you can manage this and exchange this in a secure format then i mean renting the car will be a click away and of course you will carefully select as you do in front of an employee of a rental car organization which information you want to give or which information are necessary so this is a very simple example the other example could be opening a bank account or could be i mean signing a contract for something so the digital identity it's a a collection of who you are in multiple dimensions including your social interests and other things and what you want to communicate to others in a way that i mean you allow the interaction if you want to communicate that you are member to the local golf club you can do that through the i mean uh managed identities if you want just to communicate for instance in using social media your age you can do that if you need to communicate your driving license you can get your driving license and when it comes to healthcare you have your nice and secure wallet where i mean if you need to communicate certain things to a doctor which you authorize to to know the information you can do that so it's a very very different word from the collection of passwords pieces of digital real information papers and things that we have today so that's our dream well but what a great answer to that question of digital identity because it shows the power doesn't it of what can happen and what we hope will happen in the future and particularly i suppose with the power of blockchain and other emerging technologies indeed indeed indeed indeed indeed absolutely and blockchain is a big part of this exercise of course yes so no it's a and coming back to the question i that was before about standards and what happened on tracing gaps that's why i said we got to get it right we got to get it right well there's lots of questions and this is the last question unfortunately but we've lots of them left behind roberto and this is from john dooley from the dete very positive that enabling investing and driving europe and digital solution will be balanced with preserving an open economy it would be good to hear more and how this balance can be struck so we can strengthen our competitiveness and economic power without compromising fundamental principles of openness transparency includes and a level playing field similarly to stay ahead we need to balance the need for proportionate levels of regulation at eu and member states level which do not impose unnecessary burdens with the need to promote and enable innovation that ultimately drives economic growth i don't know if that's more a statement than a question roberto but um i don't know if you'd like to respond well uh yes indeed it's a polar statement but maybe since the last question allows me to repeat certain things i i've been saying throughout this very very nice uh discussion we had the first is i think the world needs europe and we need the world there's no doubt and in digital uh europa's role responsibility that we have to exercise in driving the new normal to a a better dimension for citizens and it is disrespect i mean we don't need to because i mean if someone closes a market it's it's a defensive reflex and it's a sign in a certain sense and we have no weakness here because we are by gdp the largest market of digital market of the world we are by tradition by facts the the the market where the most advanced rules are being crafted uh we have indeed a weakness when it comes to having neglected too much in the past the power on innovation when it comes to digital and this weakness that we need to catch up that's why these investments in the recovery plan in advance of digital technologies are extremely welcome but i mean if you catch up in a race there's no reason why you should shoot the tires of the opponent i mean that's not the way to win the race uh and so this is the race eventually the the real price is to have a real new normal where something what happened will never happen again unfortunately probably it will happen again but i mean at least we will have the tools to combat it better this is the cup for winning these trades and this is a cup we can share this world cup with with others i mean uh but we have to do our job in europe we are too big too important not to do our own work and what went wrong is that we didn't do our homework and we cannot simply blame others if they have done the work and now they are also in services and process in europe we have to down our do our work and we can maintain all our reflex to be open and assertive by doing our work roberto thank you so much unfortunately time has caught up with us but i have to thank you for your amazingly capacity to answer all these diverse questions in such in such a really good way and clear way and i think for giving us a really powerful message of the the power of this digital empowerment framework with our 3ds the digital service act the market act and the governance act but also more importantly the role that citizens business and the states as well as europe can play together that it is about openness it is about working together so i think it is a really uh powerful um presentation and particularly your answers as i said in such a wide range so thank you so much for that um i'd like on on on our behalf to thank the iaea production team lorcan mullally and sarah burke and the digital policy researcher uh sheamus allen for their work in this webinar but i'd like to thank you our audience for such active engagement with roberto and for that uh range of questions that you soweby answered roberto thank you very much uh we really appreciate that so we look forward to seeing you all again at our next event and you roberto i hope in the new normal that you talked about that you can come to dublin to see us um and tell us more about what's happening in such a wide range and really positive digital agenda with so much happening and also i think importantly with that fund behind it that will ensure it will happen so thank you very much again and i hope you keep safe and keep well and thank you thank you joyce likewise and thank you for all the contributions we received to this very reaching debate and thank you for the invitation i surely will and i hope soon