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Clockify invoice for Public Relations

hi my name is Izzy eart and today I'll be talking with Rachel mcdeid publisher consultant about her experience with clockify and working as a business and marketing consultant while also teaching a full course at the University of [Music] Sydney what can you say about uh who who you are for people who've never heard of you before and like how would you describe yourself professionally and personally okay okay well I've been in the publishing industry for over three decades um and I started in mainly sort of product and marketing roles and then sort of went to management um and I started my own business oh nine years ago now um and I specialize in Outsourcing Consulting and coaching now with um authors but it's mainly book publishers and Distributors that I work with but I work globally so it's not just in Australia I have from around the world yeah it's fun it's fun I've been in the industry for so long and we've built up such um knowledge it's you know like just it's nice having lots of different clients and doing lots of different work um I joke that I have the the the most non-disclosure agreements in the country because of what I do um and I also teach book marketing and sales at the University of Sydney so I wear lots of hats it's fun I can I can imagine uh but I want to follow up on something that you mentioned coaching how does that work in context of publishing or like yeah but because I cover everything once the book's actually been done um and these days particularly with marketing uh digital marketing that you know authors there are authors that are really Savvy and authors that aren't and they need help with websites and social media and you know even things like newsletters and advertising um so I sort of I don't have the time to do the work myself anymore for those sorts of clients so I coach them and train them to do what they need to do so um yeah for the big Publishers and and Distributors that I work with the different ball game but for the authors these days and micro pressors they need just a helping hand fascinating um but yeah uh how do you I I I have a question uh specifically because you mentioned like um not NE necessarily like newsletters or stuff like that like the change uh in publishing how has that affected your business because 30 years ago I assume publishing was very traditional you it was very different yeah and I've ridden that wave that whole you know move across from print to um to digital to the digital world thank you yeah sold platforms and content you look at it a different way so you look at it in terms of content um and so I've been I actually um work with um one of the largest um organizations in that in that space and on the ebook platform so they're one of my clients and so I've been in the ebook space for over 20 years um so I got in quite early but you know audio e platforms apps everything you know all different ways to sell a book true it must have been such a such a drastic shift from like something that you've gotten used to and then all of a sudden everything change it changes yeah it has but also the cost of doing things um the whole supply chain for books um you know just and we don't have economies of scale in Australia so you know um the freight and and shipping charges of books versus you know a digital workflow um but the whole digital space has gone insane like it's just you you used to have cataloges and you used to mail out cataloges and you know you used to before the internet you know you could Price Books whatever you wanted to when you were Distributing them but not now everyone's got access to information um and everyone wants the book y today you know that makes sense very different world I think it's customer expectations but also you know the role that social media play it's very different space very marketing books now as opposed to 30 years ago is yeah you know there still some fundamentals in terms of customer service and some of the supply chain work but in terms of marketing it's it's it's quite different yeah I wanted to ask about like how social media works now specifically with marketing books and everything else because it it is social media is very fast very like everyone expects everything now now now so and and yeah and when it comes into books because I actually um do social media coaching and I teach and I do workshops and stuff like that and I find that you know it's not the answer to everything and books are competing with all other types of entertainment for someone's dollar and someone's time so social media is good at creating awareness but it doesn't necessarily mean they're going to buy it you know so you know sort of like and you have to trigger multiple times you have that in front of the potential customer to before you actually get that to get that sale um but I've seen some wonderful engagement what I do love about social media is the way some of the authors have adapted to it and they are so good at engaging with their readers directly because in the past they didn't have access to their readers directly you know they might have done some events and things like that but these days they get to know their readers and their readers that you know are going to read every single book by that author there's lovely engagement I mean Twitter can be toxic but I find that the writing Twitter yeah well X um writing Twitter I find a very nice Community like I find that the writers are really supportive of each other I'm curious because you mentioning like writing Twitter what do you think about I believe it's called book talk on Tik Tok where it's all about writers books and everything it's so funny I purposely have not go not gone down that book talk route because I swear I will never come out but I see so much content in other ways and of course I get my students to write on book talk and I get and I talk about book talk and again it's been amazing for Book Sales um and also for retailers it's driven people in to um bookshops because you know they can't just hold up their iPad and put the the book that they're reading they have to show the physical book they have to have reactions to it you know it's I think it's been such a fabulous thing particularly for ya you know and romance and few others yeah that's fantastic I can't even count uh how many times I've been scrolling and I somehow end end up down the book talk rabbit hole and then I find a book that I haven't heard of in a couple of years and I remember or a new book and then I you know let's just say my shelves could use a little cleaning and a reorganization yeah and it has reinvigorated the backlist I mean Simon and chuster in particular they've got you know a lot of the colen Hoovers and things like that got queen of book talk and um you know it just you know for years he had nothing on these titles or just general sales and suddenly boom yeah um it yeah didn't matter if it was a new release or an old release it was it was great it great so absolutely fascinating to me just how different everything is and how quickly it can change um yeah but T ask you have more than 30 years of experience from sales to marketing to publishing and distribution H now you even run a business to help those who can benefit from extensive your extensive knowledge uh when did you realize uh that a business like yours was just what the publishing industry needed oh it was really interesting I actually have to think um at the time time a a wonderful wonderful man who was the managing director of one of the big companies here um I'd been in Publisher relations by that stage and he actually said to me because I think when you work to a very senior level there's no other similar jobs around in the industry because you have to come back down to come back up again um and and I said to him you know um I don't know what to do like I've got some ideas and he said to me you're the most networked person in the industry well at the time I was cuz I work for the one of their largest accounts um why don't you make your network work for you and that was the best advice I ever got um because I've got such huge experience and then I could see that Publishers were laying off staff or restructuring or someone left they weren't replaced and so I felt like Outsourcing you know like I don't need to be managed I know what needs to be done I'm highly skilled um and so so for for clients it's it's good they can pack oh here's six hours of work I can give you um I'm not technically on their books because I'm a consultant or a contractor um but you know that you get the work done I find one of the best things about providing Outsourcing is that I'm not caught up in all of those meetings for strategies or a you know HR things or internal things like I just do the work and I think that that works really well um I just I just get on with it you know so um and you know I have to adapt to every publisher or distributor's style um sometimes it's not what I would do but they're the client so I do what they need to do um but yeah it's been something that is unique in the industry it definitely sounds like it but you mentioned something now that it's piqued my interest uh when you said adapting to uh a style of publishing uh how do how do you mean by that and like what do you mean by it's more like it's more like you know different brand it's more like branding um the way people talk in their Communications you know who uses humor who doesn't particularly when I'm doing the socials for one of my clients can I put in humor or can I not um can I create a you know Persona in social media um those ones that are very particular versus those that are just happy to have the work done um and also different types of books you know there's quite a big difference from a un press to a specialist or a niche publisher you has a you know particular um you know publishing program that they work to so I have to always adapt to their voice their style you know I can make suggestions but generally it's you know I have to know what they you know so if I present a campaign to them it's got to look like what they would do so yeah so engaging yeah so correct me if I'm wrong this involves a lot of research correct into your P into who you're working with and Publishing with and so on no no generally i' I've know because I've been in industry for so long and I've been in publish relations for a long time I generally know the you know what I'm dealing with but there are certain things when I'm starting with a new client that they will guide me through and their systems might be different or I can see what's been done there usually for the big corporates as a style um you know and they're very possessive of the brand um so you're managing that it's it's different for the you know when you're working for multinational versus when you're working for a smaller press um or even University press and who who they're reporting to who their dotted lines are so yeah you you just got to be able to and the thing is they're using Outsourcing for a reason so you got to be quick you can't faf them out you've got to be able to take one look at what they do how they do it um and be able to run with that you know don't change it up straight away get to get to run with it and then sort of bring in some new things if they're ready for it sometimes they're not ready for it I can't you know that's fascinating uh it sounds like the whole publishing industry is a constantly changing the Heth so uh so to say but it um what a fantastic introduction um so my uh I'm curious what's the profile of the clients you serve like how would you describe your services more in depth to to that um well say what I would normally do is that because I cover everything from you know like a micro press or authors up through to Big Distributors um you know for me it doesn't matter whether they're a big multinational or a small press um I I guess um I had a wonderful Mentor um he was the the president of a called Baker and Taylor and um he said to me that every publisher has its own story and once you know that story you know how to work with them so for when I'm working with Publishers in particular um they they will usually know what my skill set is and if I'm doing regular outsourced work you know um I cover such a huge sort of um variety of areas um or if I'm doing a project um within that case I have parameters to work with so they basically know my skill set um and then we we sort of discuss what they need me to do on an ongoing basis and often they'll start me on something and then they start throwing more things at me so it might be you know they might be working with me on social media campaigns and AD campaigns and then suddenly they asking me to do publicity campaigns um so you know I have to be ready to do all sorts of marketing functions this a few I don't do like I don't do events generally um I I can coordinate but I I don't do that and and there's certain things in the industry like selling rights and stuff like that that I don't do so okay well fascinating I know I know I'm like fascinating fasinating but I don't know anything about the publishing industry so this is quite new and interesting Publishers Publishers would love this this um platform that you have you know like for when they have Consultants or contractors or you know casual staff or anything I just think it's brilliant that's great but um you cover a wide range of services and you know exactly how to put yourself into your client's shoes exactly what they need and what they're looking for what's the most satisfying part of what you do and why would it be um I guess it's well it's a couple of things I think it's great when you get the feedback from like a head of an organization um but also the authors because it's their work that you're marketing and promoting and having a good experience with them um and authors can be tricky um but generally a Happy author um is a good thing um so I do like that and I do like the relationships that I build up with um others in in the organizations that I work with like you know there's some great teams out there there some really knowledgeable people um and I do love it when someone's got a f sense of humor and you really feel it when you're communicating with them whether it's on online or in email like it's that makes it rewarding because otherwise it'd be too isolating to do what I do I can imagine yeah uh do you have let's say a favorite author or a recurring author set of clients that uh that you go back to or that uh come looking for your services um noing any names favorite I mean not on something like this um but um you know I I do because I wouldn't work with someone who didn't treat me right anyway like I mean it's my power it's my my business so so um you know there are some things that are more difficult but I don't think I necessarily have um you know I have favorites in different things so um and and and and different people and different but I love the writing my brain is wired that way to take on lots and lots and lots of things um Fant so yeah yeah and the thing is if if I found someone that was rude or obnoxious and you do get authors that sometimes like that you just got to work magic and you jarm um and sometimes it doesn't work out um but um generally you know um yeah there's you know I can choose my clients and if they're particularly difficult I can always walk away but I haven't had that that I'm sure there's stories you know there will be one sometime but uh personality personality driven you know yeah apologies but it seems like Charisma is like the number one thing to have while working uh while working publishing or anything like this um I'm curious with that Charisma um have you worked with a team or do you curently work with a team that's charismatic oh well not necessarily charismatic but you know put your Charis I think there's a lot of extroverts there's a lot of extroverts in the industry but because I mainly work um when I'm doing my Outsourcing I'm not in NE in Mass Market publishing so I'm in um you know University press publishing um or I mean trade publishing but at a smaller level um so it's not like working for the big organizations um you know with Big Brand authors um I have authors who are award-winning who are consistent who are on the event circuit I love an author that's on the circuit because they have a brand and they are so good to work with um so yeah so it's not like the big you know Stephen Kings of the world it's um lots of others you know particularly in non-fiction um I do a lot of work in scholarly and non-fiction I but when I'm Consulting when I'm Consulting I do I cover all areas when I'm Consulting and coaching I love myself some non-fiction um such fascinating stories that come out of it um but something that I'm curious but I know I mentioned this earlier what with the industry changing from what it was before and versus what it is now um but like we as like everyone uh in the workforce just in general are noticing a like profound or witnessing rather profound changes and how we work from being remote and hybrid to chat GPT becoming more and more used and AI uh you know writing prompts with AI and all of that and layoffs and and uh so on and so forth what would you say are the biggest uh challenges to your Niche today as like as a result of these changes and so what do you think about AI That's what I'm most curious about especially with yeah yeah I know um you know like I actually asked my students how many because the ones that are working in book sellers or you know um in bookshops or with um in the industry you know who was using Ai and you know the Savvy ones are really adopting it early um as a time-saving device um I'm also listening to the authors who are very very concerned and the broader industry about the challenges of it and how can it you know it's not regulated they're not going to you know the the threats to income um so you know and as part of me I mean I'm at the end sort of like end of my career in terms of you know um that whether or not I really go after Ai and embrace it and then train other people or whether I just let the younger generation do that um but I find that AI is a big thing but also in our industry um the cost of book distribution um is is another one um cost paper costs um there's lots of different issues that um are affecting what what happens and there's just so much content being produced how do you rise above it so you yeah it's like self-publishing you know I don't think Publishers realize how much self-publishing really like there are some um markets where self-publishers are just dominating but they they're selling directly or they're selling to things and Publishers wouldn't know because they don't see it on the industry reports but I think analytics are becoming really you know a lot more um important over time you to sort of help um navigate your strategy you know in terms of your marketing your sales and your distribution so there's some really good things there but um yeah not quite sure where you know about the AI um I think I need to read a lot more to see how I'm going to use it but platforms and and people that I've worked with have been using it for a while behind the scenes anyway yeah particular one of companies I work with big tech company so they have it integrated into lots of their products and services so that's fascinating you I've heard of Chad GPT as a sort of write a prompt see what it comes up as a sort of jokey thing which actually leads me to a question that I have um fiction writing websites like AO3 or like fanfiction.net or fictionwriting Donnet have been around for time in Memorial um how has um let's say self-publishing or fiction writing websites like the ones I mentioned affected uh your work and how it affects in general all then nothing really no no not not for what I do so um but I you know um apart from um every now and then actually really enjoying a story for fanfiction where they take it um you know just extending it's just if you can encourage people to read that's a really good thing um yeah absolutely so and if writers can get all the prompts that they need um to help build a story and you know being able to sell it into or either have it placed with an agent or get it into a publisher that's important yeah so the problem is they they hardly make any money out of it you know like that's the the big thing about our industry you know what's a best seller what are the figures you know particularly in Australia we're a relatively small market so fascinating I never really thought of that considering like I'm considering land Mass you'd think there would be more people Australia we need more and it cost a lot to send a book you know to send one book you know sometimes it's half the price of the book to send it across from Sydney to Perth you know so wow that is costs yeah supply chain cost that yeah really important like you know there are Str you have to have economies this go you have to have volume wow yeah um I have no followup to that that is like uh I wasn't I was aware of the costs like internationally how expensive that was but but just local locally but just like yeah through the country I didn't expect it to be like expensive no um you know UK and US wholesalers have been able to get books into our Market cheaper than what we can do it from you know one state to another state it's just volume seriously I I come from Canada so I in Canada it's a lot easier to get let's say from one Province to another um a book that from Toronto to Alberta or something like that because from what I remember the cost wasn't wasn't that that much hear this to hear this to end how expensive it really is goodness um yeah and so and of course everyone wants their books to be sent to them for free you know you buy online and you know you want but no there has to be a postage charge or a postage recovery it just you know it's people go out of business so but what does your typical workday look like like do you use any particular method to stay productive throughout the day and like how does that help um because I've got a full client like list um so normally um at the start of the week I'll plan out my hours and some of the clients that I have campaigns running for um so I have to make sure that I have lot of the right time through the week but also keep to their budget I have to always keep to their to their time allocation as well as their Monet um and and so um this is where um clockify is been great in that I um uh essentially log on log off um and by projects as well so I'll do a batch of you know an hour or two for a client take a walk come back work another hour or so I switch between them but if something comes up really quickly um I have 14 email address um and I have um uh if something is really urgent for somebody I stop what I'm doing and go to that um and so I have to manage my time really quickly and really quickly I'm not quickly um really well um and but they expect me to be able to to move and not sit on something um so I do I can actually see all my addresses in my Mac mail um which is good and bad um sometimes I switch that off while I'm and I often put my phone on do not disturb particularly when I'm working on a campaign because I just need to concentrate on that campaign um if I'm doing strategy or documents or all different things so I have all different functions and requirements from my client so I just have to work in with publication dates and um event dates that I'm you know promoting not necessarily setting up um so you know and it and then when I'm teaching on top of that I also have to make sure that my notes are all up to date that I've um you know refreshed the material for my students because it's book marketing and sales that I teach so um that's first semester so that's a really the first you know few months of the year are my busiest so um but it's a full week like it's and then sometimes on the weekends I might need to do things um but it depends you know if there's something something urgent um publicity wise or you know particularly from the media or something that's a problem on someone's website or something's happened and we need to share it on the socials like there's certain you can't have it the delays so I need to be able to move relatively quickly yeah that sounds so busy that sounds like you good job to you for being able to do everything all at once um oh sometimes it's exhausting and I hate getting sick I'm really goodness can imagine yeah yeah I'm a really stubborn person so you know um don't like being sick um my brain doesn't like it but every now and then when you do get sick you do have to have time out you've mentioned teaching and I have uh and I'm curious now which uh you teach at the University of Sydney correct yeah yeah yeah and um I hear you enjoy it immensely how do you I love it how do you manage uh to do it and still run a business a business that's like more successful by by the year um I don't know will um I think I read somewhere once that if you do something you love you'll never work a day in your life you know it's a great quote and I think that for those sorts of things when you love it you make time you do it you've got the energy to do it you know you just drive on you know so yeah that's I can't remember if that answered your question no not oh techn well yes you did but uh and sorry I got interrupted halfway through it's fine um but it's fascinating to hear and quite frankly amazing to hear that you love what you do and um you're able to work on your professional and personal development and you know run a business and you know be able to teach students and all of that um I'm curious uh how did you find out about clockify specifically um I can't remember what point it was but I needed once particularly with um I was using like my calendar to try and track the hours that I was doing for people um and then I needed to if I was working on a particular project or a particular task like they wanted to know um how much time was I spending on publicity versus how much time I was doing on the website or social media and so I was trying to I played with little apps for a while on actually was just on my iPad back um when I started and then I did a you know just sat there on Google one day and sort of like Googled the top 10 and and it came up and so I actually did the free version at first um and so I could export that information um to help me invoice and then over time all the updates to it I paid for pro because it is an absolute timesaver it does everything someone like me needs with in terms of reporting to my clients to invoicing to things like in um you know when I'm covering some expenses um oh my God I just love it and I can switch on and off you know like so the little app can you know I think that that's what I was looking for with something that could say at the moment I'm working on uh an email marketing campaign I log that off and I'm working on a website or if a client says to me I've got $2,000 on this campaign um you have to track that as a project to make sure you don't go over budget so um you know I I put those into the app and do that I have another client that says you know my budget for the for the month is you $1,000 so you know I have to do all of his work within that and it's I love the alerts it sends me you know 25% you're 50 you're 75 whatever that I've set up so I know I can keep to their budget not go over time but also you know the Publishers and Distributors are looking for that they need to also report back to those that are in charge which these days is often the financial people so they need to be able to show when they have me um or IR marketing Services if they you know using me for outsourcing um generally it's just they just say Rach to MC demo because that's how I'm known um I have to be able to I can do reports on what percentage I'm doing on things um you know when I invoice them they've got the choice to say you know um what it was was it a campaign like if I've set it up by a campaign what the tasks were so they can track all of that and they can put that in their budget you know um so I work to those client needs it's so flexible so um yeah yeah and once it started when it was doing invoicing I can't believe I used to do it um like I used to go through my calendar I did two hours here I did three hours here and add them all up and goodness but uh you know I wasn't going to pay a huge amount of money for for you know some accounting app yeah I didn't need it yeah yeah so um yeah I just love it it's just every time I look at it there's something new and I where did that come from we're we're always updating it you just you are um but now I'm curious what was it that made you stick with clockify like what was the thing that kind of that hooked you and then that convinced you to stay okay there was a couple of things actually it wasn't just one thing being able to round up um you know uh that was important um being able to invoice by that project or by that time task um running invoices was when that sort of came in as a feature um you know and I can do you know I can customize you know all my invoices to all my different clients because they all want different things on them either I might be a purchase order number I may have to put you know uh different people that need to see it um but it was the invoicing that once you know that and then managing the project by time so I think all of those together I was prep I was prepared to pay because you know I had to sit there trying to work up you know do I put it as I worked 3 hours and 22 you know minutes on something or do I put three hours and three and a half you know like you know there's certain if of efficiency and being able to produce invoices really quickly um and then the reports you know like being able I send a time sheet out I send an invoice out they can ask me for anything and I can run something something in clockify like I just found it essential for what I do as a freelancer you know or you know s Trader or whatever but for the what I do for a for you know for my job is you know I don't know what I'd do without it I really don't mean it sounds great well uh are there any other features like I know you mentioned invoicing you mentioned projects and everything else that uh clockify offers yeah expens absolutely um are there any feature other features that you use the most uh and why uh with timing and everything um T well I use tags and projects um they're on pretty much everything that I do um they're probably the main things and the reports you know so you know I pretty much use everything now in it but because I'm only um I'm only one person you know it doesn't I don't need to allocate to staff and I don't need to do all of those sorts of things or have an approval process through what I do so um I'm just trying to think if there's anything on there that I don't actually use um I think it's pretty muchos app we do have a kiosk app uh where you know clock in clock out um don't know how you I I don't know how useful that would be but it's definitely worth checking out yeah well I um with the app so you're talking about the app that I have on the computer so I have it on my Mac and so like it's on all day and you know I'm putting on and off on my Mac you know I'm using it all the time that's great um and uh you know and and also I've made it that I have to put definitions in there um but also because some of my clients might you know like say teaching you have different rates depending on what you're doing because if you're marking assignments versus teaching and so you have to put all of that information behind the scenes at the beginning I think that's the thing as long as I've set up my projects right and for my clients the only thing and I don't think it's there yet but maybe it's coming um is you know if I'm doing a consult and I raise an invoice I'd be love to do the credit card transaction on it rather than going out outside of it so but that was the most recent that I've Loved when tracking the invoices and when they've actually been paid and you know like highlighting what hasn't um as you know being able to look on screen and go oh okay I need to chase that um that I really loved all of the invoicing developments that have been done and you know knowing how long it took because I was doing these manually in Excel you know I raised an invoice on this date but when did I actually get paid my terms are 14 days when did I actually get paid so you know I find that that's yeah that'd be a lot easier to follow be able to follow especially with working with so many people yeah to be able to follow that so closely um yeah I don't know if that's available as an nextport yet I have to have a I can't say anything about that but you know those sorts of things it's just you know I think it's listening to users to see how they can um keep staying in the app and you know it's a it's a good affordable product it really is um and every time that there's something a new release or something I oh yeah this exciting there's always something new happening it's it saved my sanity I think particularly if you've got lots of clients so the Outsource clients and then the consults on top you know and every there's different rates for things so having to manage that and invoicing um is uh is a challenge so I can imagine how challenging that would be yeah it's the app it is it is it's really and it's easy to use um and I think there was something really early on I thought customer service was really good I had to um ask a question because something wasn't appearing on a report and it was only because I had not um filled in a particular part when I set up a new project and the customer service was excellent so um and they just made sure I knew what I was doing and you know and I've never made that mistake again um so those sorts of things also make it um Pleasant to work with like you know it's not like you know you roll your eyes and go oh I'm ping how much it's like oh this is so good oh that's fantastic to hear um are there any other are there any other rewarding options or solutions that clockify provides that you'd like to share anything that you haven't already um anything that maybe contributes to the overall I do think that there's um I do think the message needs to get out to a lot more um people that are doing you know like that are Freelancers to be able to sort of say you can do all of this in an app that's you know affordable particularly if you're doing client work and be able to run all of these things really efficiently it saves your time it's productive you know like um it's easy to use so um I I think that you know and it and it keeps being developed in line with what we all need so I do feel like I'm I spoking speaking to someone the other day who um is starting up their own business and they were looking at sort of doing you know working with lots of different people and I said to them you've got to get this app you know it'll make your life so much easier to be able invoice and yeah reports you know and it's it it's just it's value for money just go out and and do it and so it's one of those things I think that particularly in our industry we' love to share things that have been um like Life Savers um or if you know helped save us money or time and um we we do have a tendency to to share across oh I'm using this for a CRM or I'm using this for a you know um this sort of software or I'm using this for marketing I'm using this so you know I think word of mouth is really really good it's like books you know you know word of mouth is what sells the books um and so I feel like this is something that you know also needs that get the message out um because it's a really good platform to use so it's safe to say you'd recommend clockify to I would recommend I think that considering that you know I've been on it for a few years now and um every update has you know smile on my face that's great that's fantastic it's fantastic to hear uh in your experience uh what are the top three most oops what are the top three most desired skills for someone to become a successful to become successful in Outsourcing in U being a consult consultant you want me to give you tried secrets you want me to give youed I think you know knowledge flexibility um and also reputation like I'm really lucky I've got a really good reputation um probably because my first Mentor in the trade actually said to me never make enemy on the in the trade um because on your way up you'll pass them on your way down um but essentially um you know those sorts of things have been um uh you know I think knowing what you do do a good job do it well um and get on with with it you know don't fa about give people what they what they need so um you know as long as you know what you're doing there's a lot of people that don't know what they're doing they think they do um but uh you know they don't we all have to start somewhere but that leads into one of my other questions uh on this uh what are some challenges that maybe new Publishers or new Consultants uh might face getting into this line of work um payment um terms um I think that um it's for me I'm lucky because I've been doing it for a long time so I have regular clients I have people that approaching me all the time um and I guess they have to find their Niche and find those ones and use their Network and you know just you don't need to have like hundreds of people you need to just have really good consistent ones that pay on time give you interesting work um and um you know that are you know nice to work with so um yeah I think if people were getting into that to find their Niche um and where they can add value I think they need to be able to add value um or save time for people um or money you know like um particularly for a publisher they're trying to find ways to get the work done um and you know Outsourcing is a good solution in in those sorts of things um but I love the Consulting Doo it's it's fun and and coaching because every project is different so you know you just have fingers in lots of pies and you got to be able to manage your time really well and at the end of the day even though you're working on all these projects you've still got to run a business y yeah so you've got to you know it's You' got to be able to have your admin you got to manage your time um and you've got to remember that there is things that there will be things that you have to do um that you know aren't client work it's just business um you know so and I like to think that you know particularly in our trade it's a nice it's a nice industry to work in um and you know if people are um good at what they do um they're nice and pleasant to work with it it makes a difference so yeah um and there's a lot of nice people that's good I mean best uh best tips to give to new and upcoming Publishers I guess oh do your research um you go you know um your gut instinct only gets you so far um manage your supply chain really well you really good customer service um because people remember when you don't um yeah and um I think for for Publishers generally you publish what people want to read you know as well um and it right get it out in the supply chain at the right time but there's so many people that don't do any of re actually the worst thing for me as a business is when people have come to me and they said oh hi Rachel I've been recommended to you by Val um I've just published a book and that's to me the um the killer words it's like you've just published and there I'm looking for marketing and publicity they're going you should have been starting these ages ago um so you have to coach them through what they can do now so I think that for people um depending on where they are in the industry you know if they're a new press they should know what they're doing um but for new Authors get the right advice and sort of read the books and do the masters of publishing at University of Sydney it's a great course best unit is book marketing and stu um and um you know and so but the amount of people that don't do anything you know and then say I've just printed 20,00 th000 copies or 10,000 copies and you go oh my God the best seller last year only sold that many did you not do any research you know they've got to get the ride thing is that a common it happens it happens when people have an ego and they think that they can sell sell a book um without doing any any research on the price point on the market on the supply chain getting a distributor is huge you know so um you know um I've been called the killer of Dreams because I will actually say to people you know that um you know how many were you planning to print but there are tools in the industry for them to to get information on um you know what you know you know statistics on sell through but they they just cost money and so but I'd rather have a client pay a few hundred dollars or more to get a report and save you know thousands or tens of thousands later on um but there's people yeah they just go out and do it you know it's great if you've got a network but if you don't um you know I had someone once send me a marketing plan for how they were going to sell 100,000 copies of particular book um without having having any understanding in the australi market of how many copies that is and what sort of books reach that in the first place so um you know it's sort of people people believe a lot in their product um and it's not always the right belief yeah you know um so yes that's where I come in I can sort of you know guide them through it yeah I could imagine yeah when you make when you make something that is your baby and then you want to see that succeed in some way so yeah then you come to me and say I don't have a distributor yet and you're going oh my goodness how do I get it in the Christmas catalog then it's November and it's like no it doesn't work that way the industry doesn't work that way um so uh yeah I mean I guess that's a difference I've got such variety because I've got my Outsourcing work which is my bread and butter the coaching work on top of that and the Consulting so I get to see lots of variety you know lots of fingers and lots of Pies it's really cool that's great um do you have any plans for the future anything special that's coming up that you'd like to mention allude to any new things no no I guess the main thing that I've um just started offering is that a lot of Publishers have authors that aren't um social media or digital Savvy and so I'm doing some sort of coaching and special things with them and I partner with different people within the industry for products and services that they might offer um so it's sort of like you know um and I guess for those people that are putting on industry events you know like make sure that you use the right you know people in the industry to to talk to and um you know I I do workshops and I do presentations as well so those things are always fun but um yeah I mean in the meantime I'm enjoying life in the in the Blue Mountains so but such a change from Sydney so I've got that lovely work life balance and fresh air these days I do have work life balance even though with all of this work you know I have a dog that demands being you know going for a walk and you know love going into the gardens and you know so got to have both got to have fun as well you know can't be all serious true well I mean thank you for this fantastic chat this is great to I hope you can use definitely I'm I'm thinking already about the my next book um and Who you gonna come to before you do it you are the number one person I'm thinking about um so do we see the clockify guide or something or the cake.com guide oh definitely an Insider's look into how clockify helps the general public um what are some which you'll be giving you away free as you know on the website customers work that's a great business model um how are there any other socials where our viewers can reach out to you find you read up on you and look for this oh it's so funny so LinkedIn is my best yeah LinkedIn is is is probably the best because I'm so busy doing everyone else's socials um I sometimes forget to my own it's like my website it's sort of like oh have I updated my website because I'm too busy updating everyone else's so I mean I'm on you know the main things um but you know LinkedIn is the best way and also there's recommendations and endorsements and things like that on Linked In and um that people can see so they know it's just not me talking it's like you know people like working with me which is I which is good because I like working with them too um so yeah LinkedIn to best professionally that's great um last but not least is there anything you'd like to share like any little more sprinklings of knowledge that you'd little nuggets of knowledge that you'd like to leave with us oh hadn't really thought about something like that um yes read more books reading is a great Pas time and make sure you always support your local Bookshop and your local library so um you know I'm very grateful to my local Li when I was a kid um they happened to be just opposite where my mom worked so um you know if you can you know develop a love of reading doesn't matter what you read um you know like for you to read romance or if you know science fiction or I love ya I'm you know my 50s and I love ya oh my God me too all I keep my students my students love it that I did this photo sorry um Sarah J M um came to Sydney and um she needed a thank you sign because she'd won the good reads for whatever book thron of Glass series that she won it for this the best book in that genre that year she needed a thank you sign I think that's no sorry she needed it for Australian fans that were coming to something that she was going to and then she used it on good reads and she used it twice across different um years and I show my my students that I did that side and they were just go oh that's fantastic that's fantastic sjm that's all you know what we say um but it was so funny because I I worked in academic and scholarly division not in the trade division or anything but I just did that side so they all think I'm down with the kids I think that was from a line from Twilight or something but oh goodness yeah but that sort of thing is is good I need to be on you know know what they're reading um but I love I love I think if people share what they're reading too um and spread the word of some good books that they've they've read on for about the type of books that I read and like some good book some good like recommendations if you read have you read the fourth Wing no but I've heard about it number one in Australia Rebecca Y um uh but um and actually I think it's number one most places but yeah dragons and you know I think that the tagline is um uh you have to um uh graduate or die is the tagline so um that's enough to get you going but um yes I there's quickly to tag onto this before we before we uh finish a great because you mentioned that it reminds me of a three-book series uh with the first book called the S uh the summoning um about a a young a young adult who finds out she's a necromancer and now she has to figure out how to deal with that yeah I forgot the author's name but it's a fantastic Series yeah yeah um yeah I don't know that one um I do love you know like when people sort of share that love you know like you sit there and I put on my good readings to be red list so it might be like a few years later but eventually I get through it that's fantastic but we're going to H we're going to stop here thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us you're thank you for contacting person yeah definitely and um you know it it was good just to have sort of have a chat because I think if you you know you know things off the cuff you know are better than me sitting there and trying to write something so oh yeah definitely please enjoy that fresh Mountain Air yes well I'm enjoying I'm going to have have dinner now so you enjoy your day oh definitely and I hope you have a great rest of your day too okay thank you goodbye okay bye thanks for watching our new episode be sure to check out our social media profiles and subscribe to our channel for more content just like this