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Plumber bill format for Personnel

your base rate has got to be it's got to be uncomfortably low right it has to be income it has to be it has to be low enough that it's going to starve the guys out and you don't want to run what's up Joe what's up man how's it going good hey we gotta we got a good guest on here today I know I see that who is that guest who's that guy the man of the hour Beau McKenzie Bo McKenzie the man of the hour what's going on bro you said it was a half hour so it's a minute of the half hour right oh yeah man of the half hour all right I'm not quite to the level of full hour dude now is a long time to talk hours a long time to talk for sure yeah so but you own full speed Plumbing in I don't even know where to say you are but you're in what western Washington we kind of seem to cover a lot of the upper the upper two thirds the I-5 Corridor in Washington state we cover um pretty much pretty much everything from just south of Olympia all the way to Canadian border which is probably a three three and a half hour drive top to bottom right well so that's a big area pretty big yeah pretty huge so when you're like how does that work when you're I know you have three locations and I've wondered this about your business for a while that I've never asked you okay but how does that work for like guys going to the parts stores do you stock Parts at your shop do they go to the parts store when they need stuff how do you work that question so we stay pretty lean on on our on our shops I'm I'm not big into carrying a lot of inventory I've been bit on that before where you end up carrying stuff that goes Obsolete and then you know you got twenty thousand dollars something that is good for nothing but you know saving until somebody eats a part off it or if it's brass taken at the scrap yard but I've I have in in my career dumped probably near a hundred thousand dollars of stuff in the dump because I couldn't find use for it so yeah so what we do is we stay real lean Even in our shops I I'm pretty pretty particular in our shops we carry one to two trucks worth of inventory in any one of our shops and then what I've done beyond that is uh that we actually have a string of mini storage units is what we've actually gotten that I have set up with shelves exactly like I have our trucks set up and uh and and so the guys can find stuff real easily because they're in the exact same places and uh and then instead of having you know Shop Boys or whatever whatever the guys order out they take back and they're supposed to restock and and that works pretty well for the most part sometimes you got to crack down on a guy for not doing it but for the most part they'd be pretty cool with it so they go to the Conex they pull parts out and then they're responsible for restocking it yeah so what our guys do is they'll actually order from the supply house with a PO number of their truck or of their truck or their truck slash shop if it's their truck slash shop then it's going to come in a box with that shop on it and uh and they know that they need to get it back into the shop they took it out of our guys make your order at the end of every day and then that way they get a box usually middle of the next day um at their at the shop that they work out of they'll get a box and uh they open it like Christmas morning and restock your truck yeah nice we try to keep as much we try to keep as much small as possible so we keep it on the guys the guys control their own trucks that truck and now our trucks are a little different than what a lot of guys are going to run I mean we run uh 14 foot box trucks and uh our shops are set up so we set them up for we call a 93 97 uh today and right now that's how we word it uh so our trucks literally have an electric water heater a gas water heater a tankless water heater and they've got a budget and a premium toilet they've got um uh two or yeah um two budget lab faucets to premium lab faucets a budget kitchen faucet as well as a premium kitchen faucet they have all the pieces and parts my guys can usually do a re-pipe out of their truck they're carrying enough stuff so we run our shop our trucks kind of are our shops is how we do it and then our guy is responsible to maintain and manage his own shop so we kind of keep that real small puts a lot more on the guys but we compensate our guys pretty heavily too so if if they're if they're performing well then and then it it pays off to them so they kind of fall in their control but it's also it's also Lots expected of them and and with that comes with great expectation great reward they come here so that kind of points to like the beauty of like niching down because I know a lot of people want to do plumbing and heating which I do mainly because I'm in a tiny little market and heating is a huge deal but uh like I know I even have clients they're in a big Market and they're trying to do plumbing and heating and I'm like dude just do one or the other make up your mind already because like you said you can store all that stuff on your truck you can have faucets you can have all the shower valves you can have the water heaters you can have the toilets um and then you can offer those services cheaper than if you didn't right yeah and still make your profit margins yep is that kind of the thought behind that yeah yeah it's yeah again come down to Simplicity just just keep it real simple simple is scalable I mean there's just all there is to it is you can just keep repeating and repeating Simplicity the beauty of it actually comes down to the fact that that if you do it right and Mark it correctly you can hire guys wherever you get an uptick in call volume so that's kind of how we've expanded out the way that we have if I start getting call volume over here you know we kind of toy with our marketing and you you and I have played together on so we kind of toy with our marketing a little bit if I get an uptick in an area so now I'm making a guy drive an hour every day over to this you know or or every other day that tells me that I probably need to get a presence there and instead of renting a software or whatever we start we start doing recruiting missions up there and I try to find a guy out there now if I put a truck which our trucks are Billboards so if I put a truck in a neighborhood in a guy's driveway and it's driving in and out of that neighborhood we see a second uptick then at that point and then you're actually putting intentional Marketing in that area and you see another uptick so what point in time would you like once you get a guy there you've got an uptick you've got a truck there at what point in time would you invest in like a shop or something like actual physical presence there usually if I can if I can support three to four guys out of an area I'm looking to to go physical presence now we we did uh we did start one the other way where we actually did the shop and then I um and I started pushing it and it really hasn't worked anywhere near as well as getting the getting the workflow and then spreading sure that's cool that's cool think about because you're in such a big area that you kind of have to do that well the thing about the thing about you know Seattle Metro I hate seeing Seattle Metro because then people think that I'm from Seattle and nobody wants to say their friends yeah right people around the around the US and around the world I have to say I'm from Seattle or else they have no idea what I'm talking about but that Seattle metro area is not it's not like a lot of areas where it kind of spread out like this because we have the Puget Sound on one side and then we have the mountains on the other right so what ended up happening is that Seattle Metro goes real long and skinny I mean it's you know I I'll I'd be willing to bet that within the next 10 years the Seattle Metro will literally go from the Canadian border to the Oregon border there's a break right now um just just south of Chehalis that runs down to Longview but it used to be that it ran down the Longview and there was another break to Portland there's no break to Portland anymore oh that's crazy from Longview from Longview to Portland is almost completely a metro area all the way through now there's a few little spots but almost completely I mean you think about it it's what's going to happen is is the Portland metro and the Portland metros and Seattle metros are actually going to meet it's what's going to happen yeah at this time so so what ends up happening because it doesn't go out like this I can't really have a you know which which causes some issues in marketing to be honest with you I can't really have a hot spot and then just kind of ping out from there because like my house for instance my house um when we had the shop actually in in the shop in my backyard back in the day um when we have that if I marketed on something that was on radius in my area it would always want to try to put swim in the mix squim's a town that's out on the peninsula squim is 16 miles as the crow flies from me 60 miles is it but if I were to drive to swim it would take me three and a half hours yeah you gotta hop on a ferry don't yeah you do have to hop on a ferry and and uh and so it's three and a half hours if I catch ferries right by the way I could actually I should probably push that out even further in reality so you know so then that you can't really do radius you have to play a little bit different with it but that's crap and it ended up long and so instead of building one big shop we really learned that keeping real simple tight small groups and and scattering up and down made a ton more sense for our operations right yeah so I want to go back to your your uh your little mini parts store idea because like where do you put those like how do you find how do you find a place to put them storage units so they're just like you just go to get a storage unit and fill it up with stuff storage units you know there's there's many storage units all over the place right and and if you negotiate and get it pretty cheap oh and by the way if you pay attention you'll find that most of them are actually owned by groups so there are groups that actually own them so instead of negotiating on one of them you can negotiate on four of them if you get them half hour to 45 minutes apart and then you place those out right now all of a sudden you know you got a couple water heaters sitting in there you know you get you get some some basic stocks sitting in there you've opened it up to where you've you've allowed yourself to be able to spread a lot broader but again sure what we're going to do is we're gonna set those shelves up exactly like our trucks are so that it's real simple real lean one to two trucks worth of inventory tops and so if all of them have the same stuff so everybody knows what's in there too so then you don't have to crack anything right yeah all of our trucks are loaded identically all of our shops are loaded exactly like our shop or like our trucks gotcha that sounds cool because what I run into is you know we do a lot of heating and it probably takes up the most of our truck stock so the plumbing into things really just gets left behind so our cost to do plumbing is really expensive because if we need a faucet we're going to the store to get it the water heater we're going to the store to get it because we need so much heating stuff like 75 of our stuff is Heating and I should probably heat my own advice and just stick to one or the other like don't it's just too heating I'd probably be better off you can do that or divide two ways and just run two separate uh things all together yeah and we kind of like we do that with our trucks so we've got you know two guys that are basically the plumbers they take the majority of the plumbing calls um but yeah I guess we just haven't figured out a good way to do that but I like your storage unit idea that's a good one no it works really well I I mean I imagine up there in Alaska they have storage units all over the place just like we have here they do are just like we're in Fairbanks and it's so small like it's a five minute drive to the parts store yep pretty much no matter where you are so oh okay we may as well just go to the parts store so usually my guys they can usually handle probably 90 of the calls off of their truck um and then if not they run to the parts store yeah and they usually end up restocking I tell them just start your day at the parts store restock from the day before and yep you're good and they they all know if they bring anything back to the shop I'm gonna throw it away because I hate stuff in my shop so what we do is we we have just again all about Simplicity we we have a whiteboard on the back of every truck so as the guys take things off they whiteboard it on all right let's write a whiteboard and then at the end of the day they're they're expected to call in um an order with the PO of their parts uh with their RPO of their truck I mean and then the does the parts store deliver that to your shop location yeah cool yeah they'll just request whatever shop that that they're dispatched out of um that's their their home base right it'll go to there we can use the supply house is even nowhere know where our storage units are so so we can do things like hey drop it off here but we're a lot more spread out I mean five minutes you see five minutes of spy off man I killed for that sometimes I mean um you know if if you're out if you're out in some of our areas you know you'll be 45 minutes to the supply house and so you know 45 minutes there 45 minutes back and then you know supply houses and plumbers they're going to be there for an hour and a half so yeah just we've just basically we've earned the half day like yeah it's it's gone and so when you run into those situations like that do your do you train your guys to build that time to the customer like hey I know I got to go to the parts store so I'm going to add this time into my estimate yes and sell it with the time in yeah and those are pretty minimal I mean they really are you know we missed because of how we love the trucks again 93 to 97 today and right now so I mean you're talking about a three to seven percent you know it you know and thing that'll happen I mean it's it's not uh the occurrences are so small it's just right to where if you did lose an hour and a half it's not that big of a deal it's not going to kill you yeah because it's I mean it's happening once a month maybe I mean it's not a common occurrence and if you've got a guy that's happening to all the time and by the way this is part of the reason why I preach peace rate so much because the guys will stop having problems with this if you pay peace rate because they don't want to lose an hour and a half so what will happen is is they'll actually load their trucks correctly because it means that they're not going to lose money out of their back pocket keeps them more profitable to their own picture yeah and you've gotta like do you mind talking about your piece rate and how you how you structure it you kidding I geek out about my piece right I love my piece I felt about it because yours is a little different yeah no I do have a little different one um so Washington state is um uh well it's difficult labor things it just is uh politically so um we have to be able to prove that we pay minimum wage our state probably is one of the harder States I think California and us are probably the two worst in in those ways as far as how our state just gives us troubles but um I I figure if you can do what I'm doing in my state you can do it anywhere so basically what we do is we run two time cards on every guy we run their actual time card we run their performance time card their actual time card is figured on a lower base rate and I can tell them I could tell you the numbers the problem when I say this a lot of times when I when I talk about this people if I actually put the numbers out they'll think that I'm saying they have to use those numbers put whatever numbers you need to put in doesn't matter just describe actually build on it but but so we run two time cards we run an actual time card we run a performance time card and uh so the the actual time card is a really low base rate uh as close to your state's minimum wage as you feel comfortable doing that's really what I what I tell people is as close to your state's minimum wage you feel comfortable doing so you're going to bring that down real low and the idea is that this the the actual time card is really for nothing more than just keeping the state happy because you're gonna You're Gonna Keep record of this so what's going to happen is you're going to have that and then you're gonna have a performance time card the performance time card is is clocked off of off of sold completed collected so every task that we have has got a time allotment to it so that time allotment gets and and it's built right into our job codes so it Stacks up right so what happens is if a guy is more efficient then he gets paid more if he's less efficient then he gets paid less just kind of what it is so that sold completed collected uh if they if they sell complete and collect the thing then that gets put onto their performance time card we post that performance time card live by the way in our shops uh we actually have a shared file with with apple on on the little apple mini computers then we have a TV screen up so the guys can see live all the time what the other guys are doing what they're doing it we really do encourage a lot of competition with not competition against we're really big on that um but so they're gonna see that right so as as those add up we get to the end of the pay period whichever time card is bigger at the end of the pay period that's the one that the guy is going to get paid on it doesn't matter which one it is everyone's bigger is the one they're going to get paid on and then the beauty of that is because the actual time card sitting over here if the state decides to bust your chops about something you're going to keep that in your records and you're going to show no I paid them above minimum wage even with the time and a half for any overtime they might have worked right right so yeah you can really easily prove it I paid them more than what I had to yeah and that's going to be pretty tough for them to not make more than minimum wage right yeah well they'd have to be doing really bad yeah yeah for instance our our on that is 90 an hour for any journeyman so um so I'm in our base rate that we have is 18 an hour if if you can't in a week's time we pay once a week if you can't in a week's time beat that you're pretty lousy I mean it's just all there is yeah it's either that or it's a really really dead week but it's got to be a crazy dead week to even get below uh that guys guys just rarely ever end up on baseball I mean it's right it's pretty rare and a guy who does end up on base rate especially if we have call volume and a guy ends up on base rate I know exactly what I need to do with that you find that those guys end up just leaving anyways just because they're not making enough money yeah which is part of the beauty of it is that the thing I love about our piece rate structure is it self-regulates right it self-regulates on inventory itself regulates on efficiency itself regulates on the guys not wasting time it self-regulates on the guys you know the guy that clocks out for a half hour lunch break but basically is useless for an hour and a half you know we've all had that guy um you know because then he then these guys got full and he's he's half asleep because he went and ate you know a five course meal at lunch you know like what are you doing of course you're gonna be a slug after that well itself regulates all that right so it still regulates uh a guy is showing up on time it's self-regular and everything just self-regulates uh when you do it when you do it right um and and that's the big thing about any any pay structure you have to understand pay structures uh Pace structures incentivize something every pay structure incentivizes something so if you ask yourself what is salary incentivize salary incentivizes availability right so what it incentivizes you're gonna be available 24 7. that's why I'm paying you salary are you going to work 24 7 no there are going to be times of insanity and they're going to be other times of boredom that's what salary does right um but but I I need you to be available so I'm an incentivized availability as a salary incentivizes and then you've got and then you've got a commission commission really only incentivizes sales and this is the reason why I'm actually not a big fan of commission because I don't think it serves a customer very well quite honestly I think commission actually limits the service to the customer and then you have and then you have um then you have piece rate piece rate I think done right incentivizes uh true service right the last thing you have is hourly what isn't what is hourly incentivize either one you want to guess taken a really short time is that right going as fast as you can no dang it okay just being there this trip to the parts store that's what it incentivizes oh yeah I think my favorite one ever was a guy took a he uh you guys don't know the area but but a guy took and drove to uh Five Guys the nearest Five Guys for lunch like I really wanted Five Guys the problem was the nearest Five Guys was an hour away for the half hour that he was at Five Guys hourly I don't get that anymore right yep so yeah so is there any downsides that you see the piece rate the downside uh the the downside that really does come in is you kind of have to keep an eye on guys as far as um you have to keep an eye on guys as far as them caring enough about the customer so you do have to kind of watch that a little bit because there's a matter of efficiency but then there's kind of that Cutthroat efficiency as well and so you do have to kind of keep an eye on them that way but how we how we do that so our our managers act as our dispatchers is how we play that out and uh and in doing so what what our manager does is our guys only get one call at the end of that call they're going to get what we call our six point checklist and uh so they're going to call into the manager they're going to say okay I got that done the manager is going to go through and debrief them essentially on it you know how are the discounts put in when were the discounts put in those types of things were there discounts put in what were the options provided uh things like did we get pictures how are the notes you know and and so like if there are notes my manager is going to be like hey get notes in here call me back click yep right yep hey there's no pictures get pictures in here well I already left the customer's house well I guess you'll have to go back click right and and uh you know play it right the manager kind of holds that in so so if you play that out you can kind of take care of those issues and so the way the way it works our guys do not get their next job dispatch to them until they have gone through the six point checklist successfully if they fail the six point checklist go home get refreshed tomorrow come back ready to follow the rules self-regulates because he now just got cut off for whatever he would have made the rest of the day right yep he's no longer going to get his 90 an hour for all the hours he's sold yeah so it works really well to to how you have to how you have to watch that one is with your managers your managers have to do yeah you have to make sure that that's happening but if you're mad if your managers are doing their part correctly then you're then your guys that's not even so much an issue but that is the downside is guys becoming too efficient and and by efficient cutting cutting the service to the customer right so then I know people are going to ask like you're paying them peace rate which kind of incentivizes them to hurry up and get in and get out right um and so you've got the service I've solved but what do you do about callbacks like how do you prevent them from uh you know Quality quality correct um so with callbacks there's no piece rate on callbacks and even worse if you're if you're if you happen to not be in that day let's say you went on vacation you get a call back when you're while you're on vacation um then one of the other texts is going to go do it and you owe him the pie that he required to do it gotcha [Music] so do you track it like however long it takes that guy to go fix your mistake that's how many hours he owes the other guy yeah yeah I'd take a long time on that repair back to hourly right there five guys here we come I don't think you would because then then when the guy gets back from vacation he's probably gonna hate your guts and you know you do have to work with these people still yeah and then if I have a call back and he takes it [Laughter] there's gonna be more Five Guys more or Five Guys yep more Five Guys huh cool yeah I like that okay anything else you see any other things you come into with peace rate no not really uh well yes the one the one other thing is because piece rate is odd to this Market I mean it's it's been in history it's been used in the automotive industry forever but it is new to this market so convincing guys that it is a good pay structure is a little tricky until you get one guy who performs in it you get one guy performing in it especially when you're posting it up on a performance board you get one guy performing in it and now all of a sudden when you're recruiting people and you show them and you explain it to them my favorite it's actually one of my favorite recruiting tools is I'll take my my recruit that I'm talking to in there I'll show them the performance board explain our piece rate structure and then I'll be like oh excuse me I gotta do something in the other room and I'll I'll leave I do it every time every time I come back you know what they're doing they got their calculator up on their phone and they're figuring out and they'll start being like do you really pay that guy this much sure are you really gonna pay this guy this much this week yep and uh and and so it allows them to kind of see the possibility of it so the only other thing is is the selling it to guys and and this by the way is the reason why I Believe In A simple piece rate structure there are a lot of people trying to use scaled piece right um I found scaled peace rate to be basically impossible to sell people on and if you're playing that I just barely understood it can you explain like what a scaled piece rate is okay so a scale piece rate would be a if you sell this many hours you make this much per hour on those hours you sold completely collected now so let's say You're Gonna you're gonna get paid 25 an hour for anything under 20 hours you sell if you sell 30 hours and we're gonna bump you up to 45. but if you sell 40 then we'll bump you up to the full 90. that would be a scaled gotcha which is great it actually really isn't I in a lot of ways I think it's Superior other than this it's hard to comprehend you're going to have trouble comprehending it your payroll is going to have trouble comprehending it and well your recruits are gonna have trouble comprehending it and quite honestly I think your guys are going to have trouble comprehending it which is going to lead to a lot of why didn't I get paid this or why did I what and yeah those those arguments all come in yeah and then they're going to be mad when they're like a half hour short of a pay bump yeah yep yep yeah so we kind of do something we do as like a sliding scale or we don't do peace rate because we're unions we can't and their base wage is so high already that to then bump them up higher this doesn't really make a ton of sense so they go we bump them up as they sell hours so like once they sell their minimum which is 25. yep you bump them up like five dollars an hour and then once they hit 35 we bump them up even more yeah and then if they sell 40 we bump them up this is all 40. I'll bump them all the way to I think we bump them all the way to 75. maybe we'll have to go to 90. but what I found is that my guys make so much money on the checkers this one's podcasts they're gonna be like hey what about what's up with this yeah well we don't tell them about these podcasts so but what we found is that and I don't understand it at all is that my guys make enough money on their check that they don't even care about the pay bump they could care less yeah they're like I make enough money and so that's really hard to incentivize them yeah the reality is for peace rate of any type to work your base rate has got to be it's got to be uncomfortably low right it has to be uncomfortable it has to be it has to be low enough that it's going to starve the guys out you don't want to round it actually has to be and I know that sounds harsh and cold but but it's it's one of those things and one of the things I've learned in Building Systems that all your systems need to be Draconian so that you can be the nice guy you got to make your systems ridiculously harsh they have I mean they have to be straight up Draconian harsh because then you can come in and rescue guys from the system uh you know and and it ends up being that hard wall that you can use to kind of negotiate with the guys so like for us in that if a guy falls below 20 for two weeks he gets a pip or performance intervention plan he falls below for three weeks he's out no other fans or butts he's out mm-hmm so what happens is now when I come to that performance intervention plan I'm like hey look the system says that you're two weeks below 20 you know let's say let's say it's it's it's you Jared so it's like hey Jared uh you're two two weeks below 20. um system says that next week if you stay below 20 I'm gonna have to let you go um so we're gonna we're gonna do a pip a performance intervention plan basically what's going to happen is I I'm gonna sit down I'm gonna talk to you and figure out see if we can figure out why you're below it are you cool with that I'm getting I'm gonna get one or two reactions from you I'm gonna get screw you it's everybody else's fault my manager hates me sends me to bad calls we have nothing but bad calls blah blah blah blah it's always about the calls you know and and passing off not taking any responsibility at all you're going to get either that reaction or you're going to get the reaction of please show me what I'm doing wrong okay now that's a good guy and you want to work with that guy so now you're going to sit down with them and you're going to look and figure out what he's doing wrong usually you're going to find things like he's giving crummy options if he's giving three options giving crummy options right and uh and well okay if he's giving crummy options of course you know your options actually have to be valid you know I the other day we had a guy that I had to address um and he offered a toilet flapper a minor rebuild and a major rebuild and I'm just like like really well you if you deliver enough of those you're gonna fall below 20. I mean for sure it's it's not even you're going to You're Gonna Fall below 20. so now now I have the option to come in and rescue and I'm gonna look at his options are those options are they do they even make sense you know does it work at all or you'll get a guy who has you know his options yeah he had three options so he slept through with the manager a few times but you know you'll find like a toilet option A a water heater option and a kitchen faucet well that's that's not even three options yeah we're not even the same world right now so you know you're gonna find things like that sometimes you'll find things like uh they put discounts on every single option or they put their discounts on at the same time as they built their options well now you're literally throwing away any sales leverage that you have so you find those types of things you'll find things uh like they fail like them failing to call in for manager discounts right so the last ditch effort that we have is is okay Mrs Jones how much more are you hoping to spend on the plumbing right now she's gonna lie because the number that she really wants to spend on Plumbing is zero zero yeah so by the way uh say that less than one percent of U.S households less than one percent of U.S households have a home repairs fund however sixty percent of U.S households have either a boat or a vacation fund right so that they don't have the money argument that you hear from your guys yes they do it's just not in a home repair is fund because they didn't build a home repairs fund yeah nobody wants to spend their boat fund on their Plumbing exactly it's for my boat yeah highly highly important things here that we don't want to divert funds I can live in my boat all right and live in my boat so so basically at that point what we what we teach our guys to do is okay how much were you hoping to spend now they're going to give out a lie and we all know it's a lie right they're just going to put out a number that they feel is reasonable ish right and this is a negotiating a negotiating a tactic is all it is and it's it's it's wired deep inside the human anatomy to to negotiate and that and so they're going to throw out a negotiation number and and and sadly if you don't train your guys right what you're going to get is or just too far apart there's no way your guy's gonna tuck tail and run this point what you guys need to do is you need to screw his heels in for a fight and and actually deal with this properly so okay you were hoping to spend that much I don't know how I don't know that I can get you to that but here's what I'm gonna do I really want to get you taken care of so I'm going to call my manager and I'm going to see how close to that I can get I kid you not back when I was in the truck I used to go call the manager call manager mind you it was me myself and I yeah so I would hold up my phone and call the manager yep in the truck yep and and then then what we have is we have a a series of manager discounts that our managers have ranging all the way to our break even number and so the manager is going to give those series of discounts um depending on two things how big a discount it is depending on two things how valuable the job is or how busy we are right so if our schedules slammed we're gonna manager's always going to give a discount but it might be like a two and a half percent I mean it's like something but you know um but not necessarily great uh you know and and then our manager can actually go all the way to to what our Breakeven number is uh in that discount and your discounts have to be valid they have to actually be something you can't just take money off um so so we actually have a series of discounts that our techs can give we have a series of discounts that our managers can give which can add up to a total of our break even um and and that way we can get a customer taken care of and I don't necessarily mind breaking even sometimes I mean if we're so if we're slow my manager might give a discount all the way to break even right yeah I might totally do that yeah pay your bills at least yeah at least cover yeah and that is that is a thing it's coming out of the profit margin not out of your not out of your bills but yeah right yep yeah at least you at least you break even you're not making money but you're not losing money correct yeah yeah so that's that's how we do that um and so at that point like when you're when you've got somebody pulled aside and he wants to learn and he's eager to get better yeah and he's gone through his two-week whatever and you're at the PIP and you're sitting them down do you are you gracious with that person I've worked with them a little longer or because a week to catch on like a week to get fixed their mistakes I'll be personally honest in the three years we've been doing this I have never had a guy one not break 20 the following week yes um I I guess it could happen and now that I see that we're gonna have it happen I'm going oh well Jared hopefully not hopefully I didn't Jinx you but uh but yeah I mean I we have yet to actually have a guy after a pip fail to to break 20. sometimes it's just barely Beyond but just barely Beyond at least at least is the right direction and uh and and you know they're at least following through on the things that they need to fall through yeah cool I like it one of these days one of these days when when I saw my business and why I say when I sell my business because I don't think you can do this while you own a business one of these days and I've already got the outline written um I have I'm gonna write a book called failure or fiery way to success and there's been a failure way to success but I'm writing fire your way to success but uh and it really comes down it's not actually firing it's a matter of making a hard enough line that the guys that want to cross it right yeah yeah that makes sense yeah well cool man thanks for sharing all that oh yeah you're like a a wealth of knowledge well yeah I learned a lot I took notes Bo you should be proud of me right there it's almost a half page just barely Jared's trying to teach me but it takes time one of these days we'll get them writing yeah I keep switching hands I don't know I just don't one feels better than the other sure all right cool that's a wrap it's a wrap right on thanks bro that was great anytime hey guys if you like that episode and you want to see more content like that I've picked out a special episode just for you all you gotta do is Click right here go ahead and do it just click right there