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Retail bill format for Logistics

[Music] Hello friends welcome to the logistics of logistics podcast my name is Joe Lynch thank you so much for joining us today on the logistics of logistics I talk to experts in logistics and transportation warehousing fulfillment supply chain and of course technology and during these interviews I'm always the one asking the dumb questions I ask the dumb questions so you don't have to today's topic is channel Free Logistics with my friend bill theer bill is the founder and CEO of Phil logic a logistics as a service platform for retail that converts underutilized space at retail centers into Tech enabled micro distribution hubs bill and the Phil logic team are transforming retail Logistics to meet the demands of modern customers if you are a retailer brand logistics company or real estate owner this podcast is for you so please take a listen how's it going Bill Joe thanks for having me good to be here happy holidays thank you so much by the way this won't air till January so happy New Year um exactly to everybody bill please introduce yourself and your company where you're calling from today sure so I'm Bill there I'm the founder and CEO of fic fic is a leading platform for local market Logistics or what we call Channel Free Logistics what fic does is we take underutilized spaces in retail centers primarily shopping malls and deploy the technology and the operations to help make those retail locations operate more as a network so we work with not only mall-based retailers but also dig usually native Brands to helping their Logistics and their Logistics technology operate more efficiently like an ecosystem we are a B2B Logistics infrastructure platform end to endend we're not only servicing fulfillment but it's reverse Logistics recommerce we're providing the solutions and opportunities that the retailers need to compete in what we call the channel-free logistics future so happy to be here today and tell you all about what we got going on I love it I love it so please spell Phil Logic for us fi l i so logical fulfillment yep what I'll do is I'll put a link to your LinkedIn profile put a link to your website and any other links you and your marketing team give me one more time you said Channel Free Logistics I've not heard that term before until you said it please tell me what is the difference between Channel free and Omni Channel like we hear so often uh on my podcast Joe I've been around to block a while I've been around Omni Channel since from the beginning of my career over 30 years ago Omni channel is dead Omni Channel denotes silos it denotes different functions that are either tied together by different Technologies different operations it is not built for the pace of Commerce today so when you think of somebody saying on the retailer side I have a direct a consumer Channel I have a drop ship I have B2B I have wholesale everything that exists out there as channels one thing that I think we've all seen over the last few years with the pandemic the pandemic has shown that customer beh behavior and customer um requirements have changed forever um their expectations um don't really care about the retailers problem and the Retailer's problem is on the channel you have an infrastructure that was built on something else that is very old what we call Channel free is a customer facing focused component of retail but it's utilizing the existing retail infrastructure so at fic we don't look at channels digital physical B2B wholesale whatever we look at it as an ecosystem and channel Free Logistics is basically saying there's inventory and there is people and how you get that inventory to and from people my head of engineering when he looks at items and skews he looks at it as an item without a context an item moves through a system in various directions it's just providing visibility and status to them it's not an inbounder an outbounder verse Logistics it's about looking at how do you make makes it most efficient and when you look at Channel Free Logistics it's about less time less touches less movements and that is inherently faster lower cost and what's important to us it's also sustainable and circular it's about using existing infrastructure when you look at shopping malls in this country they are closely um developed and built right where customers live they're in the best traffic patterns the best transportation areas but what there's never been the uh what's been always the problem is retailers don't operate collaboratively uh when you look at some of the larger retailers out there let's say Target um Walmart they do a phenomenal job managing their Logistics infrastructure why because they own big buildings they have back of thee house space and they can easily support all of those what was called Omni Channel functionalities but really what they're doing is channel Free Logistics customer wants to entertain and interact with the retailer at their own level and at their own time could be digital Commerce it could be buy online ship from store pick up from store what have you what we're doing with the logic is we're providing those Technologies for everybody else we're B2B Logistics infrastructure but we're agnostic we're retailer agnostic Mall owner agnostic carrier agnostic we're about building an ecosystem because when you attach those ecosystem to Mall of malls together what you find out is you have a much faster more efficient and of course more sustainable and circular Network yep by the way when I think of when I think of business I with products I always think inventory so we're we always talk about logistics inventory is more expensive than Logistics and so often on my podcast we've put the tail as the tail trying to Wag the Dog it doesn't work that way the nice thing when you say Channel free is there is no fence around this is for the Amazon stuff this is for the our website stuff and this is for what we send to this retailer and this is what we send to this retailer it's saying I have this many sweaters and I sell them if if they're all selling through this channel I don't care they're all it's ch it's Channel free in your mind and and again we I've heard this on my podcast people talk about lean people will talk about this 30% of what we make goes to waste and it's very clear with food we we have chickens that we brew from from a chick and a point and then we don't eat it because it went bad somewhere in the chain uh Halloween candy the day after Halloween is worth very little all of the Christmas stuff that we buy during the Christmas season and the Hanukkah stuff all is worth a lot less the day after we don't look at everything as perishable but virtually everything is perishable a brand new car that has no miles on it 5 years from now isn't worth as much as the next car that's just the reality of it so we have to start looking at it as how do we best manage our business to get the inventory to our customers correct and and unfortunately you brought up Amazon Amazon has built a phenomenal network but that Network those buildings that infrastructure it's never been more expensive most retailers don't have the ability to compete like 10 15 years ago when I was working at other larger retailers it was always how are we going to compete with Amazon because Amazon doesn't make money in retail right they make it in AWS they make it in marketing so the way we look at it from a channel-free infrastructure where do the where's most of the inventory that retailers buy and know it's in their stores 75% of sales are still done from a physical location so instead of getting all of that inventory closer to a larger Distribution Center you need to get the logistics technology and operations closer to where the inventory is because if you're doing that the ability in the long-term goal of what we do at fic is providing the solutions that make it easier for retailers to use our infrastructure to make their business is more profitable to say hey I don't care about your inventory being digital or physical you have a customer that needs it and when you look at it on the outbound side selling it there's also the issue when somebody returns an item and I call it sort of the Sha problem Shaq's got a big foot if Shaq drops something off in a C Level or a DL store that item is probably going to get marked down and is probably going to get thrown away the idea to have a reverse Logistics recommerce infrastructure closer to that retail store that makes it inherently better faster so when you look at that product being able to make it back into the infrastructure that's why we want to be closer to the retail stores not further away and once again Logistics infrastructure and large distribution centers the commercial real estate issue is not hit industrially yet but it's coming it's it's just too expensive to have these big buildings yeah and by the way somebody's talking to me about their location in Reno and he said yeah we're closing it I said closing it this is we're booming right this was a year ago I go what are you talking about we're booming and he said I was locked in on I was locked in on what I could charge uh a customer and they were the majority of the customer he goes and wages doubled and and my rent I don't own that building my rent is going up basically hourly in in Reno and going one step further the guys working at that warehouse were driving 45 minutes to get to that job and they go why am I driving 45 minutes to go to that job I I it makes no sense so everything just fell apart and so somebody could say it's booming but all there's a lot of people struggling and I talked to the real estate people and they always say the problem that a lot of these warehousing companies have is they don't feel like they can raise prices fast enough because when they have to reup their rent is 40% higher and so they have to call their customers and say hey Bill I gotta raise your price 40% you're like I'm out I'm gonna start looking for a new guy that's the alternative is me raising your price basically once every six months when the when it ticks correct and Joe that's why we look at Ms and it starts with Ms it can be anywhere there's aggregated retail it can be strip balls it can be power centers you name it what's most important piece is what you're talking about is what's made Logistics so expensive because Amazon set the bar for what people will spend for buildings labor you name it and larger buildings when you think about these large um parks of the distribution centers what do those building Parks work for they work for the parcel carriers right the UPS's and the fedexes the world those are the ones that make the money because they're giving good rates to those retailers in those particular Parks but realistically our whole point is we need to get closer to the consumer because if you're closer to the consumer you're also closer to an employee base because when these big retailers move out of these reg out of these regions the employees don't move with them they stay there and when you look at being able to provide Logistics Solutions closer to shopping malls they're safe good parking good transportation to and from also from the perspective the mall owners specifically the folks like Simon Property Group who we work with they've always understood there was a need for it because think about what malls are they are platforms for retail experience right you started out with retail stores then of course you opened a food court because somebody had to go get your Cinnabon somewhere and then it became all right so the experiential ballpit you name it but that fourth pillar which is always missed until we came along I think as far as I know was Logistics but Logistics in aggregate it's not about saying we are this Retailer's Logistics provider it's about being able to provide Logistics infrastructure and Technology to everybody by democratizing it you have the ability to drive cost down and to make it more efficient because if there are Logistics processes that let's say a retail store whether it's located in the mall or within the region of the mall that's where we want to be because we're providing the same processes across a broad array of inbound outbound r Logistics you name it but that drives cost down and helps us build more of a network that's the whole ecosystem play for us using mold I love it I love it I want to switch gears for a second we will come right back to channel Free Logistics but tell us a little bit about you Bill where'd you grow up where'd you go to school some career highlights before you started this company and when you're telling us tell us also why you started what whole did you see in the market because I've not talked to anybody who's doing what you're doing sure before I got out of jail no just kidding I just had to throw that in there got jokes see body's paying attention I'm born in New York raised in New Jersey went to college at a place called Kobe College in Maine when I got out of college I actually it's funny I wanted to join the Marine Corps it was my only love in life I had a defect that kept me out of the Marine Corps so I said hey you know what just gonna go look for a job and I got a job with what was old 9x also hre Bendell I got a job with them and I got a job with Macy's and after never working in retail I was a lifeguard growing up I said okay let me try this so I went through the bar training program at Macy's and was introduced to that insanity and Macy's is one of those great organizations I spent seven years there I think the best thing I got out of that place was my wife of almost 30 years but what was really interesting about Macy's is very good acquisition there exactly best thing ever I'm not so sure we're still trying to figure out why she has such terrible taste in men but I think what was interesting about the Macy's Bar training program is you get a lot of autonom and they put you under a lot of pressure so I was an assistant buyer I was a group manager I left for a period of time uh went to ANS came back when Federated Department Stores took over Macy's so I was in planning there so I was primarily a merchant stores and planning throughout my time at Macy's but after seven years I went to an offprice retail at a company called Lans and that's where I've spent bulk of my career is in offprice if there's any off-price retailers or any off-price Merchants that are on this podcast today is off price is like the dumpster fire goat Rodeo of merchandise you buy something you're never sure what you're going to get and so it's all about the treasure hunt so I started to helped start a planning division at lman but after a year and a half I was like I'm responsible for nothing and in trouble for everything am I'm gonna be in trouble for something at least I should own it and a Gentleman guy named Bob glass who is the CFO of um lans's my mentor he's almost like another father to me he came to me and said you know you're you're driving everybody crazy because you're getting all your merchandise out of the building because you're a planner he goes why don't you come and figure out logistics I'm like I know nothing about logistics he goes I don't know it either so let's figure it out together so he eventually became the Chief Operating Officer I came on as a director after a couple years I became the vice president fell in love with that business also fell in love with heavy automations worked with a group called SDI systems out of California automated the business took half the labor out of it loved the technology of it because there was always the feedback that in off price you can't automate it after you think of the process I I remember walking one of my buildings with the founder of SDI guy named dond santis and one of my closest friends a guy named Steve hasell that explained hanging sort of automation to me it was like getting hit in the head with a hammer okay so I can make this garbage pile of inventory put it in a process so it can be sorted once we figured that out took 50% of Labor out of the operation so because of the embracement of uh the hardware and the technology I then became the Chief Information officer and then towards the end of my time frame there I was the chief operating and Chief Information officer so moment I spent almost 19 years there loved the place loved everybody that I worked with one of my two two one of two very important folks in my life a woman named Leslie heler who's now who was a chief Merchant for us and also NC surface who's a head of HR at Children's Place now I learned everything about how to manage and develop people from people like Nancy and Bob class so great place I have to say a lot of the folks that work for me still at fic are old lman folks Lans went out of business in 2014 after that I went and did some Consulting hated it because Consulting you're not responsible for anything they pay you and there's no responsibility so after a period of time I was working with Century 21 stores but I was also working again with Macy's uh Macy's was building out what was called backstage was part of the team that kind of helped develop what would be the future infrastructure for Macy's backstage but it was at that time probably around 2017 2018 I noticed that there was a big gap in how Logistics was servicing physical retail location because when you look at most retails will say hey we're going to do full filming from store they're going to take their WS solution and then they're going to deploy that in the stores have things called customers customers touch things they move things around and the processes waving Technologies how you pick it's all different so I said there's got to be something different that if malls which are built for experiential built for discovering they're missing the logistics partner from an infrastructure perspective I thought saw that was pretty interesting at the same time I had taken a full-time job at Century 21 being the chief Logistics officer where I was at Century 21 from 2018 till 20 20 when Co took it out but at that same time we raised a little bit of funding uh from a venture firm in New York City called xrc Ventures who's invested in us three or four times and so in late 2020 I jumped into fic even though we've uh founded fic in 2018 I was able to jump into fic in 2020 and we've been growing Leaps and Bounds ever since but once again 35 years plus in retail Logistics technology e-commerce and operations I've got most of the scars to show for it and I still keep coming back to it because Logistics is a business that nobody wants to own and understanding that in working at lman in Century 21 and other places I said well I'll own it and the crew that I've worked with for 30 plus years we've all enjoyed working together we've built a pretty interesting organization and we're continuing to grow uh Channel Free Logistics once again we're very pushy off-price people are always very pushy so we're I love going toe-to-toe with people on Omni channel right oh Omni channel is the is the standard no it's not it was thought up by a bunch of Consultants that were trying to help their retailers figure it out so hopefully consultants if you're listening focus on channel Free Logistics because that is the future it's more efficient sustainable it reminds me sometimes when I look at like a fax machine out I'm so old that I remember when the fax machine was a really special thing at our off I worked at an engineering company and I remember the boss said only two people allowed to touch that fax machine Joe and the secretary and I was like and I remember when Ford motor was one of our big customers they come over they show them hey this is our fact similing machine and I'd be standing there if you need to send a piece of paper I can send it and I now look at fax machine as a transition to a better technology and I think you look at Omni Channel as maybe something that's a transition to something different and better because we're always looking were different and better and there's going to be a lot of different ways we get there agreed agreed I think the the main thing that I've always looked at and I remember as an assistant buyer standing by that fax machine and ensuring that it a went through and B I can confirm that it was received on the other side remember had you have to print out that that actual success message and you said hold on I sent 20 Pages through they got 15 which 15 yeah by the way that that was where I made my bones because our secretary said the facts machine isn't working every time I send something it comes out the back and I go I think it's supposed to send it out the back she goes no it's supposed to send it to Warren Michigan that was our headquarters and I was like I think it like reads it or something she goes what I go I don't know I I it does something and then everyone's Joe it's supposed to go to Warren I go what do you think it's wading it up and sending it through the phone wire I go it's it it reads it and then sends it oh and and I I think you're right is it's a step to the next sort of future because think about this this way if I want to send a document I'm going to scan it with my phone with an app and then I'm going to email it or I'm going to text it there's so many different modes and when you think of all the infrastructure that had to go in the lines the infrastructure who was going to man it all that infrastructure Omni channel is the same thing we've gotten smarter we've gotten faster but the difference is think about that fax machine that inhabited a space we're going to do the same amount of volume with a lot less power and everything in that same space that's Channel free on the Omni Channel It's let's use existing infrastructure let's use it faster and better and more efficient and that will open up a lot of additional opportunities for folks when you look at Channel Free Logistics if you're optimizing inventory you're making existing retailers businesses better right improving their margins we're able to save retailers up to 50% of their existing Logistics costs just go just by going through our Network right a retailer one-time integration with fic it means they can use our whole network as we continue to expand across the country that basically means you're not going to go Source another building look we work with 3pls we're more than willing we're all about in a node on networks the retailers networks the 3pls networks the brands Network it really doesn't matter to us it's about the infrastructure and deploying that properly yep yep so let's just let's talk about who is your sweet spot who who is the customer you work with sure when you look at it is a mix between Enterprise retailers small based retailers is also as well as digitally native Brands and then also platform Partners people like narvar with returns loop with returns we provide them infrastructure that allows them to unleash the power of aggregation that goes across everything because most retailers today I think all of them will come back to you and say their biggest issue is logistics and Logistics technology the pandemic laid all of those inefficiencies be to say great if I have a WMS WMS might be outmoded and unfortunately those Enterprise Technologies are extremely expensive so whether you're a digitally native brand or a large retail they all have the same problems it's just a matter of scale in agregation we can solve both so let's just use an Enterprise retailer so that would be one of would that be traditionally one of the guys we'd see at the all yeah correct absolutely so what problems are you solving for them so when they come to you some is wrong because they're taking they go let's finally call that past who keeps calling us call them back they go Bill help us why are they calling what is gone wrong in their business that they think you could fix every retailer is in a different part of their Journey what what used to be called The Omni Channel Journey now of course we call their Channel free journey and our issue is stop trying to figure out how to fix it from 10 years ago fix it for the future the ability to be able to do that is not by being a spot solution right there's plenty of platforms that would just do returns and would just do e-commerce fulfillment as an in0 supply chain solution we take the approach with a retailer saying great let us understand your problem because we're the logistics Swiss army knife and but the issue is at that particular retailers time what's your big blade what's the big blade issue that you need to resolve because you don't need the tweezers and you're probably going to lose the magnifying glass by being an in 10 supply chain solution if somebody needs a Last Mile carrier we have a network that integrates with those if it is somebody that's looking to build out their recommerce business fine we can support that if it's e-commerce fulfillment at a particular time of year we can support that as well because what we found that's pretty interesting is once we build an integration with a retailer we're in the pipe and so it makes it that much easier to be able to help them with all of these additional Solutions so we have one retailer whose name has to remain nameless apologies we started out doing e-commerce fulfillment with them for couple months out of the year now we're part of their Network and we do other things for them as well we first started the company a lot of what we got feedback from The Venture world was pick one thing and do it right retailers problems are cross the board so we have some of our customers where we do 100% of their Logistics right we route their inbound do B Toc fulfillment B2B fulfillment drop ship reverse Logistics recommerce sustainable liquidation of damages everything that's the ecosystem play because that is infrastructure that is not oneoff it's built for everyone and as we built out our own technology as well it makes us much faster and more efficient to onboard additional customers so I'll just give you perfect example reverse Logistics right now for us is a huge business because by being in the middle mile of what we where malls are located there's of course final mile nobody makes money at final mile right it's point-to-point deliveries with people who make is the parcel cares we're purely focused in Middle Mile and Middle mile aggregation we found that by using our return infrastructure 50 to 70% faster which basically allows retailers to have 180% Improvement on full price selling think about a par retail you're in an eight-week markdown cycle and if your return rates for D Toc is 25% it means 25% of your inventory sitting in a box somewhere for almost half the markdown cycle we do that quicker big benefit yeah we know I don't think people pay close attention to it they look at the what's it going to talk take to return that maybe more importantly what is the carrying cost for you to have that sit at that customer by the way if I have to return something it sits on my counter for a month so we've got to get to and by the way I'm walking distance to UPS walking distance to Kohl's so if I'm returning something to UPS I literally can walk and I should but I don't don't want to go I don't want to stand in line and by the way there's not even always lines there I don't want extra hassle so correct we've got time is important and we've got to get to a point where we do a better job with the sizing that's a whole another topic but it drives me crazy that when I buy something and it's not the right size and and that's why people we find people bracketing we're going to have to discourage people from bracketing that's when they buy I bought a large and I bought a medium I both one in red one in blue each now I got four sweaters we're going to turn three we got to do job helping customers pick the right size but that limits customers there's been a lot of folks that are out there that trying to figure that stuff out okay there's one option which is just keep all the inventory and if you're making enough money that makes sense but what happens when you don't make enough money Amazon feels pretty comfortable saying hey hold on to your hold on to that inventory granted their businesses come back but they still have a lot of additional warehouse space that they're holding on to the idea is how do you make it more efficient to do exactly what you're saying is if I feel like I want to drop it off at a UPS Store great but if I have somebody that's dropping something off for me and I want to drop like USPS does it if somebody drops off a package the ability to pick something up and send it back being able to use those networks that is a big portion of what we are focusing on because the ability to promote the sustainability and circularity of it is really where this needs to go and that's a big part of Channel Free Logistics yes and and let's talk a little bit about your locations I was on your website today you got you got a lot of locations but a lot more planned coming here they're different there aren't the typical warehouses out in an industrial park in the suburbs correct I think the most important piece with us is we're big Believers that the mall business the right Mall business is very good um that's where we want to be but we prefer not to take retail facing space we prefer to take space outside the GLA what's called a gross leasable area truck tunnels elbow joints old demised department stores if we have access to a Docker to a door that's where we want to be we also don't want to be like we can be in multiple spaces within a location that are not contiguous the same I wouldn't say disdain I have for Consultants after being one maybe that's too harsh a word but same thing on engineers in the supply chain are big fans of a 200,000 foot box with 40ft clear I love those too I'd love to be able to put a tonn of Automation in there but the idea is we're using using existing infrastructure that allows you to skip inventory processes Solutions into and out of those malls with limited impact either on the space or having to Stage a lot of inventory most of our buildings average around 25,000 square feet right now but we can go higher it Lally depends on the demand and a lot of that is the strength of our relationships with our real estate providers yeah and what's nice is when it's at that store at the mall the reason those malls got put where they're at is there was a big study done and it says here's where the population is here's where the highways are all driving by it here's where the rail heads are close to the airport this is the perfect place for this mall it's also even though we don't go to the malls as much as we once did it is also the perfect place to deliver from or to pick up and deliver it's where our inventory should be close to our customer if you're going to do same day next day you can't have inventory long way away and say we're same day next day it just doesn't work you have to have that inventory close to the consumers and that's where the malls are close to Consumers and I also like what you said is you're not looking for what used to be a store and you're in a store Front you're using the the back part of that mall which I gotta think non-customer face yep I gotta think a lot of those Mall operators are going perfect no one wants that space you're the only one who's called thank you get in here I think the way we look at it is we don't look at ourselves as a retail tenant we look at ourselves as a value creator that is a big portion of what we look at from a business perspective and once again it's all about that ecosystem it's all about that last piece of the retail puzzle which is local market Logistics practicing what we talk about these Channel free processes that we that is what we think is the most important piece y So when you say Channel free and again we'll use the target as an example I think most people are familiar targets say what 990 some perc of the Fulfillment is from their stores no there's no chance so for them whether we sell it today somebody who came to the store or did a a buy online pickup and store or picked it up at the curb or they delivered it from their perspective they might track what it is but from their perspective it all came from this store and they're living the Channel free life they just don't call it that cuz they they haven't had to they've never had those problems for the last 10 years Target's been doing a phenomenal job they they actually 10 years ago they were actually Outsourcing a lot of their technology and they realized we understand the use cases of what our problems are we are go either going to acquire it like this is why Target bought shipped they needed to have somebody that was going to handle that last mile aggregation which is smart for Target I'm not so sure how great it is for shipped because they're trying to build additional infrastructure start buying additional infrastructure and you're just a sort carrier and the final mile yeah not so sure about that but the average company the average retailer isn't Target they aren't Walmart they don't have locations everywhere they have to to somehow they have to partner up which is what I always say it's a common theme on my podcast is you got a partner and you find a partner who can do what you guys do for them which is again it's getting their it's getting their whatever you want to call it it's getting their inventory to the customer and it doesn't matter how you're doing it now are all of your uh locations that none of them are customer facing right you don't have nobody's coming into your location to pick up or am I wrong to say that we have we have a few locations that are front ends for um reverse Logistics uh to be able to drop off shipments um we still look at that as a long-term goal as we work with mall owners because we want to be able to have a front facing location it doesn't have to be a retail location it could be a kiosk you name it where we could take any sort of returns our whole point is being completely agnostic once again this is why we work with folks like narvar and loop is we want to be the backend aggregation and Logistics engine that makes it easier for them to add more customers because once again if you make it easier for a customer to say you know what today I'm going to send it back tomorrow I'm going to drop it at UPS and then the next day I'm going to go to the mall because I can drop it off at that location but what's interesting if I drop it off at the fic location my return is going to happen quicker and in many cases that credit is going to be handled and processed much more efficiently than it was in some of the other two modes once again by being able to do the returns and the grading and the review of the product in that middle mile just faster and more efficient yep so let me ask you a question you got locations across the the country and let's just say you're helping me with fulfillment how do you help me get my inventory to the right location I need it at the right location so I can do that same day next day and again I'm I'm trying to avoid what I always call I think a lot of people call it fencing which is I fenced off this amount of inventory for my Amazon business this for my website this for my retail this for this for and the problem with that is I'm not getting the best utilization of my inventory correct and that's the core of omni Channel I need to have I have this item and that item is in these particular channels and so the way we look at it from a fic Hub is when we talk with retailers we're saying hey do you want to do us to do forward fulfillment or do you want us to do what we call local market fulfillment which is the ability to do store fulfillment e-commerce fulfillment reverse Logistics but also support existing stores in a region as the ability to offset split shipments our our main goal long term is retailers should not pick by store or pick by customer on any shipments it's the ability to say what makes it the most easiest for a retail store pick it in bulk and have a fic location 10 15 minutes away that those can be Consolidated spend to a Consolidated location to be able to do actual fulfillment just makes it that much more efficient but everybody's in a different place this is why when we have buildings like we have some larger buildings that have eight or nine customers in them because everybody's doing something different but from our our perspective it's one solution that we are doing for One customer in one building and we're doing it the same for another customer in another building we're using that same infrastructure it's the optionality to say retail has a problem with solution X we solve solution X but also improve a b and c by being in the network yeah and I'm assuming it's easier for you to get employees given your locations which is existing malls it is amazing the amount of talent that we're able to not only hourly but also management talent because once again as I mentioned before when these larger operations are moving their distribution centers further and further away from the populations then they're not moving those people those people have families they have lives they're not moving yeah and by the way one of the things somebody said to me not so long ago on the podcast is they said everybody complaints that they can't find good warehousing space close to customers so they're opening up new locations they said first off they're very expensive now they can't be nearly as big so if I'm going to put something in downtown Chicago downtown New York that's expensive space even now with a lot of people moving out of the city still expensive space and got the regulatory hassle of big cities too oh in in a lot of residential areas nobody wants a big Distribution Center there is actual there is very aggressive local municipalities saying we don't want a big Distribution Center we don't want those big trucks all over the place those people are capitalists and so you can't can't have the capitalist moving into your neighborhood what's next but what's interesting somebody said to me I love everybody Joe I love everyone yeah so somebody said to me that problem with the location is just the beginning how many good warehousing managers are there so if you gonna put up a big building there you can't go hey you know what i' would like to hire a guy who has 20 years of warehouse management experience and 20 years of e-commerce there's nobody like that and if they were available they're going to be wildly expensive they're just not out there it's true it's I never thought it was funny when I took over his CIO at lman I took over for someone that wasn't really happy and he basically said to me it'll be nothing more than a box Pusher for the rest of your life I'm like that's interesting so as I push you out the door and have a nice day but when you think about it all of us that have been doing this for 30 years it's pretty funny it's like the logistics is cool I would say it's cool I'm a logistics not I think everything is built on Logistics completely yep I I I will say as long as you include inventory because I always say people say Logistics is everything yes but inventory is also everything so I think you will all agree inventory doesn't get inventory doesn't get anywhere without Logistics yes exactly right frosta moving something through a system I know I'm gonna lose you in at the top of the hours put a big bow on this why should we be going Channel free now I think number one is cost right it's a lower cost efficiency it's faster because we're closer to the consumer and then one of the things I think is really important is the sustainabil and circularity piece less touches less moves means what we are doing to our environment it helps improve that and when you wrap that all together that is what truly the future of Channel free is it's using existing infrastructure to support for tomorrow's Commerce from the infrastructure of yesterday because unfortunately what we're doing currently right now too much corrugated too much waste you said the 30% that ends up in a landfill we have just created so much and shipped so much and in many cases doesn't end up in a good place there's so much more that's happening in the middle Mile and I think Channel Free Logistics is a big contributor to improving it and we strongly believe it we've got to think some of the metrics to show for it and just started awesome awesome bill as I only interview the rock stars of this space the people who are killing it who else people like you who else should I interview I think one of the things that's really important is we've got some great investors revry Venture Partners let our round xrc Ventures who hadd mentioned before Clos Loop Partners I love them groundbreak Ventures but on the logistics side Venture 53 run by Pat Martin and Dan White they're big Believers in what the future of logistics are so when you look at folks like better trucks and D Vinci micro fulfillment and Freight that's F A YT and others those are all folks that we work with operate with and believe in the same future of logistics the same way we do yeah now correct me if I'm wrong Venture 53 is a whole bunch of people who are Executives in the logistics and supply chain space am I correct you are correct yep those are folks that have they get it when you say say something when you talk about the problems they aren't it is an abstract to them they've lived those problems correct absolutely that's a great group of people to uh spend some time talking with they know what they're doing excellent so I'll talk to Pat White hopefully you can make the introduction I know I'm connected to a lot of those guys pat pat Martin and Dan White oh yeah I'm sorry Pat Martin I'm sorry it's all good he'll be mad at me what I'll do is I'll make sure we put a link to your LinkedIn profile a link to your website any other and your marketing team give me what conferences will we see you and the Phil logic people at sure so anywhere there's Vegas so of course that means manifest that means shop talk we'll be at the lead my head of sales will probably be kicking me I'm missing a couple oh home delivery world and others we're always out there waving the Channel free flag I think it's important business and important work like I said we're about working with as many people as possible because this is an infrastructure and ecosystem for everyone yep yep I'll see it manifest and by the way I should say for anyone who thinking about going to manifest I was there last year lots of shippers were there it was 3,000 some people this year it'll be I think well over 4,000 and I don't know if you noticed they they changed the name to the future of supply chain and Logistics and I think it's a subtle change but what it is their emphasis this year is let's get more of the shippers there because uh I always call it like the ladies night thing if you say hey it's ladies night what are you gonna get lots of dudes right and shippers want logistics companies want shippers well I I think so much of it is logistics is the never-ending Battle of Wheels versus walls right is it the transportation Ocean Air or is it building operations and realistically the way we look at it on the Channel free side we don't care it's how you move something through that system so everybody that is let's say on the retail side or the brand on the cpg side they all have problems that in some cases have a transportation provider that might have a facility that gives you the benefit in their truly more Transportation side that's why these conferences need to truly be more not just a transportation show or an e-commerce show it has to be a little bit everything below yep I did some interviews out at manifest last year and I'll do more this year and I also moderated last year the shipper panel and I by the way when I got to the shipper panel I was like oh look standing on standing room only everybody's here to see me and I was like oh wait I'm sitting here on stage with shippers but these were great shippers and it was very interesting and we had Best Buy there we had ala there the head their heads of supply chain everybody's at manifest you really do get a sense of where the industry is going and it's easy it's easy you stay at the it's at the Forum and you're walking distance and by the way a week at later in the week is the Super Bowl so if I see you there bill will maybe scalp some tick gets 50 100 bucks go in and see the Super Bowl I don't think I'm that lucky and I played rugby don't get me started on football player anyway bill I love what you guys are doing thank you so much for coming on the podcast Joe thanks for the time man appreciate it and you're very welcome I love having you and thank all of you for listening to my podcast your support is very much appreciated until next time onward and upward you have been listening to the logistics of logistics podcast where we engage with leaders in the logistics and supply chain Comm Community if you like what you hear please subscribe hit the like button and leave us a nice review on Apple or Spotify or wherever else you listen also please check out our videos on YouTube and connect with us on LinkedIn we're very big on LinkedIn and you can also reach us on the logistics of logistics.com our website