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okay well I have five o'clock on the hour welcome everyone i'm christina henderson executive director of the Montana high-tech business alliance thank you for joining us today for this webinar it's tech tips for tech leaders navigating SBA paycheck protection and grants for Kovan 19 this event is the first in a series of free webinars the Alliance will be hosting throughout April and May you can find the full schedule at Mt hi-tech org slash webinars and we invite you to join us for two additional webinars next week Tuesday April 7th at 11 a.m. we'll have federal resources for tech leaders QA on the cares Act with US congressman Greg Jian Forte and on Thursday April 9th at 5:00 p.m. we'll have survival tips for tech startups featuring Pat Lapointe from frontier angels and Susan Carstensen from Yellowstone growth partners and I would like to thank the Alliance Board and our members for making this event possible I'm now pleased to welcome our speakers today Ken fickler is the chief business development officer for the state of Montana and he'll be joined by Brent Donnelly district director for the SBA they will give a 30-minute presentation and then open it up for Q&A and during the Q&A time Ken and Brent will also be joined by legal and banking experts Barry Johnston with glacier bank orc and Aaron McCready with Dorsey and Whitney to answer your questions I will serve as the moderator today and if you have questions during the program please type them in the chat box and I also have a few questions that were shared with us in advance so I would now like to turn the webinar over to Ken fickler to get us started thanks Christina I appreciate the opportunity to be here today and talk with everyone about this extraordinary time and what state government is doing to try to help our small businesses not only survive through this period but also be poised to thrive again in the coming months so I think as everyone knows at this point governor Bullock has instituted a state home directive and several other reckons that impact small businesses in the state many we've gotten many questions about what businesses are considered essential according to that order and there's quite a list I would encourage everyone to navigate to governor MT gov slash press room all onward and that'll be a list of all the current directives and orders that the governor's put out within the state home directive essentially all services that are required to maintain your life are are excluded from shutdown and that includes everything from finishing construction to your grocery stores your gas stations medical of course state government police fire on and on and so we think it's a really complete list we've certainly got lots of questions that have come in about that but ultimately it is it is based on federal guidance and we're updating that list as we get new guns from the feds so it's I think that's probably the most important piece of what's happening at the state government side right now that order is in place until April 10th there is obviously the potential that that will get extended and we're monitoring the situation constantly trying to understand the impact that the order has had already and trying to understand what impact we need to have going forward in order to get the cases in Montana to zero and to minimize the impact that we're gonna happen the state you know the other thing that I think is important to mention is that we've got such a limited budget to work with that the state that we're exploring every option for other ways that we can help Montana small businesses and so we've got every option on the table and I'm confident that we'll have some ability to move the needle for some small businesses coming in the next few days but for now we're really enthusiastic about what the federal government has done and what the SBA in particular has on offer for small businesses and so I will happily answer any questions but I would like to give most of the time for this presentation to Brent to talk through what the SBA has on offer because I think it's it's really impactful and it's really important for small businesses to understand at this point okay front you're up okay great thank you thanks very much Christina for the invitation to spend some time here and thank you Ken for the introduction I'll start out by saying that there's been a lot happen over the last even hour in regards to the announcements with the SBA assistance and so we'll do the best we can to navigate through that but you're here and some of this stuff as I am kind of in concert or at the same time I also will start out by saying that since this coronavirus pandemic has as kind of launched and we've gone through the iterations of disaster declarations and different things that we've needed to do to get some of this assistance available to Montana it's been it's been a really wonderful part of that is working with our state local partners our lenders and really everybody all the leadership in the state of Montana pulled together you know in a real quick hurry to get those things declared so we could get so thank you to all of those folks and we're looking forward to continuing to work with those partnerships as we roll this out because those partnerships are going to be really important to dial down with the SBA there's been a huge amount of attention a huge amount of demand as to a couple of different things that are coming down the pike so first was the economic injury disaster loan program which I'll talk a little bit about that and then second what's been highly anticipated over the last week since bill was passed last Friday in Congress was the payment protection program component of the cares Act which just this afternoon within the last hour or so was was kind of launched if you will so so our lenders and an us in the SBA field and all of our partners are going to be giving guidance for that some of it's starting to be populated on the websites right now and distribute it via email and I think a lot of that will come over overnight and into tomorrow so so keep your eyes and ears open for that I'll start to talk a little bit about the economic injury disaster loan program because that is that has been available and continues to be available for small businesses to apply for some funding and that funding is alone with a loan amount of up to two million dollars to provide working capital for businesses impacted by the Cova 19 pandemic to help them pay basically pay bills that they wouldn't otherwise be able to pay as a result of the impacts of the disaster it's gone through as many of you on the phone may have experienced or heard this is the program historically they SBA's office of disaster assistance as available and it would come into a region or community that got hit by a natural disaster so those are things that we we hear about tornadoes flooding hurricanes that sort of thing Congress opened this program up to be used for the the virus pandemic which is first of its first of its kind and the demand for that was was pretty tough on the SBA's IT infrastructure as in like the website would go down and crash or be really slow and a lot of businesses had frustration and trying to apply for those funds over the past couple of weeks the SBA has made some good steps I think in in updating the backbone of that infrastructure earlier this week they relaunched the the portal for applications it's much more user-friendly now it incorporates some of the components that were in the cares Act to kind of open up the opportunity for more businesses to be eligible and more businesses to navigate through the program as well as the option for businesses to request in advance on their economic injury disaster loan of up to $10,000 which is to be paid within three days of a complete application so that was launched kind of Monday afternoon Tuesday I have gotten a number of reports from businesses that tried to navigate the old system they're now able to navigate the new system much more easily so I guess all that to say is if you if you attempted to submit an application through that system and you were unsuccessful please go back and try again because it should be hopefully should be a little bit more palatable experience also if you applied for that program previously before early early part of this week you didn't have the option to request the up to $10,000 advance you would have received a letter from the SBA indicating you need to go back and reapply through the new portal to request that advance if that's what you wanted you so if you didn't receive that message for whatever reason please go back and do that if you're interested we are told that if you do that you will not lose your place in the queue or your place to the line as far as processing your application so know that so 2 million dollar loan up to a 30 year term and interest rate for for-profit businesses a 3.75 percent nonprofits can apply at an interest rate that's available you can go to the sba.gov website just our main website there's all kinds of links there for apply for disaster assistance and you can be able to navigate through and find that application that app that website I clicked on that website about five minutes before getting on this ball it is changing right now because they're updating that site with a bunch of information for the payment a check protection plan that was just rolled out so I'm gonna just convert over to actually maybe I'll take questions for a quick minute on the economic injury disaster loan and then we could convert over to the Paycheck protection plan or I could just present on that we can do questions later what would you like to do you pardon me I shut off my mic we can take some questions on this element now I did have one question typed into chat they said that the is the portal here in the link sba.gov slash user slash login if so it doesn't seem to be working could you maybe reiterate what the portal address is yeah just go to sba.gov okay and and then so I just I just went through there I know they're making changes right now because I clicked on there but up at the top of this screen there was the MOBA 19 disaster when I clicked on there maybe it could even be different right now but you want to go to apply for disaster assistance or apply for a disaster loan are you on that are you looking at the web now on our web site by chance I'm imagining that some of our participants maybe are yeah let me try to click on it real quick and see if I can pull it up and tell you okay we have a few other questions coming in and get a reminder to our participants you can type we have a cute question and answer box that you can type into or you can type into the chat yeah so on the on the sba.gov website right at the top of the screen there's a yellow banner that says coronavirus coded 19 apply for an economic injury disaster loan click here if you click okay we had a follow-up question on the term of the loan I've read two years at 0.5% after six months and then heard 10 years and you mentioned 30 can you confirm that yeah yeah so lots of lots of information out there some of which has become very confusing and it's probably going to take a little while to sort all of that out so this is a this is kind of a good segue perhaps to talk about the two separate loan programs the economic injury disaster loan is separate from the Paycheck protection program loan and so the economic injury disaster loan can go as long as thirty years once business applies for that they your application goes through they'll work with an SBA loan officer to determine the term and they try to make the firm such that it's affordable for the business they're deferring payments on these loans for up to a year in this particular case but then thereafter you determine the term what the question came and talked about an interest rate of a half percent in two years and four years and different things those are some iterations of the payment protection program loan and the four year up to four percent interest rate term as said my internet connection the up to four percent interest rate in the term of up to ten years is what was written in the bill text and so what's happened since last Friday when the bill was approved and now is the SBA headquarters has been writing that the rules on this the implementation rules and making those determinations where it says up to or up to what they landed on was just announced this afternoon was a 1% interest rate which was announced this afternoon by the Secretary of Treasury at a news conference and I just saw that come through on email as well in a term of two years so that's where we are on that particular program and I'll talk a little bit more about that program when we're ready if you want to take questions on this or I can convert over now we have a couple more questions that have been typed in our taxes paid on the grant that's a good question I don't know the answer to that question if you could capture that question and perhaps email it to me I would be glad to see if I could generate an answer to you and get it back to you for your membership Christina absolutely and we'd be happy to compile all of these questions and and the answers and send that out as a resource and provided on our website after the webinar as well so folks will be able to access the recording of the webinar and also we can do a Q&A written out so that people can see some of these answers and one that question typed in has the three hundred and fifty billion dollars approved nationwide been allocated down by dollar limits to each state has not okay as I understand it it's our first come first serve basis all right that's that's all the questions thus far if you want to move on to the next portion yeah so I'll talk about the Paycheck protection program a little bit because that's that's what's in all the news headlines this afternoon it has been for a while it's first of all its premise or its designed what it's supposed to do is designed that be an incentive for small business owners to basically retain their employees keep employees on board it's a forgivable loan program for employers that keep their employees on on the payroll for up to eight week period that eight week period I'm going to talk a little bit about some of the knowns that I have based on the Bill of the loan program the guidance on this and the SBA rule you guys are caught right in the middle of this being rolled out and launched and so about twenty minutes before this call I received an email that said that that rule was headed for the Federal Register shortly so I think it's headed there as like literally as we speak and so there'll be more information for us and for everybody probably tomorrow did you just lose me no peers are there okay I lost me on my side that's okay so a couple of things about this and I think are pertinent important if the bill text talks about a covered covered period and that goes back to February 15th 2020 and up to through the end of June of this year so that's the that's the window of opportunity and I mention that because we've gotten a lot of questions at the district office about what if I what if I was a business that was shut down early or for whatever the circumstance I had to layoff my employees right away does that mean I no longer can take advantage of this or or something like that and it's not the case now you may need to there's some rules here you'll probably have to bring some employees back but you can still you can still take advantage of this week of payroll forgivable loan during this that time period so that's one point that I want to I guess highlight for this group everybody's situation is different but that may be important for many of those folks another bullet that I guess I would like to say is who's eligible for this we're the US Small Business Administration and many of you know that we have this definition of a small business which goes by industry classification code and that for some industries as a as a revenue major some industries is a number of employees the bill text made expanded that definition a little bit for the purpose of this paycheck protection program and it talks about businesses with 500 o
fewer employees unless the typical industry classification code it has greater than 500 employees which is the case in like some manufacturing type businesses that employee number for a small business it's my fire so if you happen to be a business out there that applied or tried to apply for a Small Business Administration product in the past and we're determined not to be small I would say take a look the new regulation or the new rule on this because you may be to the mix also they get pulled in on things like sole proprietorships independent contractors other self-employed folks nonprofit organizations 501 C 19 veterans organizations are all eligible so that that now that net has been expanded a little bit okay jump in here to where can you apply for these funds and how is this going to work these loans are going to be facilitated through the SBA's network of lenders so through our banks it's a it's a what I would call an enhancement or expansion of our 7a guaranteed loan program the government is going to give the bank's 100% guarantees on these loans and the loans are forgivable provided that they're used for eligible purposes those purposes that are lined out or payroll interest on mortgage rent and utilities so the loan amount the maximum loan amount there's a couple of different calculations but for the purpose of this the simplest way is two and a half times the average monthly payroll over the prior year period and so that's how these loan amounts are going to be calculated a business can go in apply for a loan make certifications that they're going to use the funds for the proper purpose and then if they do that after an eight week period their loan can be forgivable so you apply with your lenders our lenders I will tell you right now do not have all the guidance that they need for us from SBA or their I shouldn't say that they may be receiving it right now as we speak but that is being rolled out I only say that just to make sure that everybody on the call has expectations managed we've been in touch with all of the banks in Montana and so they are up to speed as far as we're up to speed and we're all sort of sitting on the edge of our seat waiting for the mechanics of this so that the banks can make the determination the mechanics on how they'll be able to process these loans so yeah technically can you go apply for these funds with your bank tomorrow yes please understand though that your bank is going to need a little bit of time to probably digest the mechanics of the sba process on this and learn that before they're gonna be able to implement it so over the next couple of days I think that that'll happen pretty quickly but please just be aware of that so we've caught where can you apply who can apply you're going to need good payroll documentation for this so your payroll tax filings and records your employee count their wages benefits sick leave and all of that employment related data you're going to want to have ready and and have that to be able to pull pull together whatever it costs here also to make sure it don't miss something vacation parallel family medical or sick leave payments for group health care benefits including insurance premiums payment of retirement benefits state and local taxes on compensation the maximum loan is ten million dollars under this program for any one business on rehiring that christians come up I'm gonna just mention that you have until June thirtieth twenty twenty to restore your full-time employment and salary levels for any changes you made between February fifteenth and April 26 and so that meant I mentioned earlier the covered date for this if you did make some changes in your employment composition after February 15th you have until June 30th to make that backup I am going to I think things stop there on the payment or the paycheck protection program that's that's the bulk of what I know I know that there's 30 pages of regulation that's headed for the Federal Register right now so we get a I'll probably get to have a chance to read that this evening and start to digest that over the next couple of days and in addition I would expect that the SBA will be providing some other information on their website and and potentially some things that we could send out to some of our partners and groups across the state and when and if that comes out how that comes out Christy and I'll certainly try to get that to you so you can distribute to your membership wonderful thank you for adding getting some echo so we will make available to to the public on our website we'll keep refreshing a resource page and when Brent and other folks send us renewed information that can be helpful for everyone in understanding this as it rolls out you can check that out so we'll send all the registered attendees on this webinar a link to that page and keep it updated we do have a question in the chat does the PPP cover full-time and part-time employees it does there's a limitation on employees with a salary of a hundred thousand or more so there's a um one of the questions I don't have an answer to you is does that mean you can pay on an employee up to the hundred thousand or is that a hundred thousand dollar employee just out I don't know the answer to that I imagine it's in the guidance that's being published right now on that but that is that is one question so kind of the question is if you have an employee that's making a hundred and ten thousand are they just not eligible to be included or commute can we count them up to a hundred thousand and not the last ten I don't know that okay we have another question Jhin couple other questions what if as a small business owner I've always taken a reduced salary that's not respective of my title can I raise my own salary to a reasonable one with the PPP that's that's a good question I am my my knee-jerk reaction is gonna be probably not you're probably gonna be based on historical levels but again Devils in the details on that stuff and I think that a review of that the guidance as it comes out will be pretty important okay another question when restoring employee levels will they count FTEs or headcount yeah we're gonna need to look in the guidance on now when there's been a lot of information published by different groups law firm all kinds of different groups of published information and a lot of its come through past me I've seen I've seen opinions both ways and so the SBA guidance on that's going to be really critical okay any other questions folks want to type I'd also like so we're kind of coming on the half hour this might be a great time to invite our legal and banking experts Aaron and buried to join in maybe first I would open it up we'll begin with Aaron do you have any thoughts that you might share with the folks on this webinar today things that you've been thinking about from your point of view working at dorsey and serving clients and trying to navigate and help them navigate all of this hi Christina thanks for having me so yes absolutely and I will tell you we flood of questions with you know very anxious people you know kind of clamoring to get into this loan program as fast as possible and I will caution everyone as as brett said very clearly no regulations and published yet so there will be a lot of a digital detail that's coming out over the next you know week maybe sooner and it'll take a little time for banks and legal advices and ethics to digest all of that but we do expect that some of the questions there that are being posed today will certainly be clarified under those those regulations but the one one or two things I might just point out you know the point of the program at least in our view is you know to really allow businesses to be able to cover funeral expenses for about an eight week period and you know the point of the program is you know to borrow the funds and then deploy them in a way that you really have a hundred percent loan forgiveness through the program because you borrow them for the appropriate purposes and you've expended them both within the time frame that's required and on the proper expenditures so one thing to keep in mind is the the ways you can use the funds do not line up perfectly with the forgiveness portion of this so there are ways to use some of the money that will result in you actually not being able to have full forgiveness of the principle amount alone so I would just encourage everyone to be very careful as you think you know you're applying for the money but then are you actually going to be eligible for the forgiveness portion of it and even if you do spend the funds correctly to be fully you think they're going to be fully forgiving if you do reduce your workforce during that time period during the applicable time period or you reduce salaries you can also completely eliminate it you're right your ability to get the loan forgiven so so it's really you know kind of the two two-step process there so I would encourage everyone to really be very careful and mindful about deployment of funds and then the other thing you know which we are still getting our arms around a little bit here at Dorian yes when you're counting the number of employees you have you know it's a very good question number but the other thing is of course there are some rules around there are some rules in the SBA program generally around affiliate relationships and whether or not an affiliates employees will count towards your total number of employees so for example if you have an equity investor who owns you know 50% of your company and that person is very likely I'm going to be an affiliate and so if they are you know if they themselves are a company their employees may very well count against your total numbers and in addition affiliates of your equity investors could get picked up in that so we want to be very careful as to how you're calculating that 500 number I did look at the some preliminary application materials for the paycheck protection program and they do have you disclose in their investors or you know equity investors who own at least 20% of the company so it does appear there may be some minority investors that are gonna be picked up in this analysis as well so you know I think the regulations brand I don't know if you think calculations will provide some other guidance there but that's something for anything for everyone to pay attention to you yeah all that if I do you don't mind me jumping in there for a minute I agree completely with that statement I will I will add to it and may this may complicate it more but um they have come out and say that they're waiving the affiliation standards for businesses that are in the hotel and food service industries so and that's under a Naik's code NAICS code 72 as well as franchises that are in the franchise directory so franchises sometimes amen to that and under that affiliate bucket where eligibility as a small business became problematic so there's a there's a couple of areas there that that that certainly have been opened up so understanding how that guidance is going to read as related to affiliates and those specific industries or maybe some set asides there to certainly pay attention to yes right thank you for bringing that and I would say Christine if I could just add one more thing you know anytime you're applying for first of all for a bank loan and certainly for a federal loan you know being extremely careful with your disclosure and the representations that you're making application materials is essential you know it goes without saying it is a criminal offense to have you know to deliberately mislead I would just encourage everyone to be very careful with the application process and not you know I know folks are panicked and stressed they're trying to get into the loan program as fast as they can but I'm just to be mindful of Thank You Erin we do have another question from the chat our restaurants with gaming operations excluded from applying I'll take that they so just because a restaurant has a gaming operation does not necessarily make them ineligible however the way the the SBA programs have across both our disaster loan programs or 7a and our other lending programs have a restriction on gaming income that it can't be more than one third of revenues and so it's that restriction that sometimes becomes problematic for those types of operations I will say that over the last week or more there I have had a lot of traffic and requests from that industry to see if that is a rule that could be relaxed or modified in some way specific to the cares Act and there's been effort by a number of folks to see if we can do that be in one of the first things I'll probably be looking at as I go through the regulation as it as it comes out because that's a been a very hot topic in in our office I think it has in Ken's office too and I know many others all right I would love to have Barry jump on for a moment so certainly businesses will want to reach out to their local banker if they haven't already and we have a number of phenomenal banks that are part of the Montana high tech business alliance that would love to to help you apply for this but we invited Barry the chief credit officer for Glacier Bancorp today just to provide kind of hit the bankers perspective and to maybe help folks understand what what he's thinking about what folks like him are thinking about and any thoughts from your perspective Barry well thank you for the invitation I'm happy to be here and talk to the group as just noted the interim final rule just came out and but I have to kind of caution everybody it's an interim final rule for one we it's going to be facilitated through the SBA administration and as all of you I think are fairly familiar with that organization why the rule is out however we're still waiting on SBA to come out with their standard operating procedures and that usually takes some time so why there's been a lot of press yeah you can go to the bank tomorrow start your application process until we actually have the SOPs and we have a formal document documented application that the SBA has signed off on as part of their SOP process we really can't we can start acting on maybe a draft application but until we actually have that final application we cannot process the loans and that's just so we're still on a wait and hold until we get that information and as the other thing that we will be waiting on once even if we do get the application we are waiting for SBA to start processing loans usually those go hand in hand when the SLP is issued we can actually take the application process it and you know get it approved get the loan documents back to you as long as there's all the supporting documents that are included in the application and hopefully we can start meeting the needs of our customers and the communities in which they operate in as probably you all are aware the banks are going to be overwhelmed by the number of applications that are going to be submitted given the impact that we are having across the state in in our individual communities and our households so you're just going to ask for little forbearance along those lines there's going to be a wait there's going to be some process it's going to take a lot of time for the banks to process those applications but we feel at least at our organization with the Glacier Bank and all of our bank divisions cross across the state that we should be able to accomplish serving the needs of our of our existing borrowing customers and depositors so we have added additional staff we we've added additional what the SBA calls eat ran sites to all of our banking divisions to get them the time the resources to get those applications processed and accordingly applicants their respect John says as programmed or as outlined within the interim interim interim final rule and even the rule that came out it's an interim final which is kind of a kind of something unique that you really don't see too often so you can tell that the regulatory agencies are really trying to move quickly in getting the loans approved in them and the money is distributed as quickly as they can so just be patient all the banks will try to get to your applications as quickly as they can I w
uld just advise you to go to the if you have a bank have a relationship with a bank that can approve SBA loans that will be the quickest way to get it done because there are some regulatory requirements on the back side of it so if you already have a relationship the bank should have a lot of that information that is required to meet those regulatory requirements and so I would HIGHLY advise that that you make an application at the bank you already have a relationship with if you try to go to the bank you do not have a relationship with they have to go through a lot of extra hoops to supply the information that is needed to complete your application and from from a lot of perspective of some banks they are prioritizing who they serve first that's unfortunate but that's the way it is so I would just suggest make the application with the bank that you have a relationship yes indeed they can process SBA loans that's about all I don't really have the offer but Thank You Barry that's great we did have the same question asked by a couple of folks in the chat so I want to see if we can get this in in the last few minutes what is a reasonable time frame for business owners to expect from a PPP application to acceptance or rejection and upon acceptance what's the timeframe to receipt of funds the that's a great question and it really depends on the the workload and the number of applications that the bank has received we anticipate we are going to receive about 30 to 40,000 applications for all of our divisions across the western the United States which is a huge amount of applications and as the program leads out we have to have all those process before June 30th which does give us some time but the real challenge is the question is you know we we're just asking our customers that to get in here as early as possible as soon as we the SBA issues their SOP and opens up their evening basically their electronic processing system to the bank's as early as we can and we will try to process them but yet that really is a good question I can't give you a definite a definite answer because it will really come down to how long it takes to process all of the applications and get them done once the application is processed it's a fairly seamless seamless process there's very little underwriting compared to what we would call a traditional loan or a traditional SBA loan it's basically a two-page application with very minimal documentation needed to support the amount of the loan and I think almost all the industries through contact with either their accounting firm or their in-house accounting firms or getting documents from their payroll processing taxes will be able to supply the documentation needed but again we aren't even sure what that is specifically because we have not seen this being SOPs yet so but a very short form application very little underwriting and and once that is done it will be processed through SBA will load it onto what they call what we're we will be using as their e train portal will get a loan number we'll get the documents prepared send out to the applicants get them to sign them return them with with the information that we need as part of the forgiveness part of the program there's actually two parts there's the application and funding but then there's also a forgiveness part that that everybody really has to be pay attention to and understand that the use of the proceeds of the loan have to be for the purposes which alone won't be forgiven and there's some specific rules about the 25 75 percentage basically if over 75 percent of the proceeds are applied to pain salaries of employees for 8 weeks after the date alone is dispersed that the loan can be forgiven and hold the whole so but only 25% up to a maximum 25 percent of the loan proceeds can be used for specific purposes mortgage interest you kill it is that sort of thing again that still has to be specified within the SOPs but the but the interim final rule is got a pretty good list of what's what's allowed so we we got a good idea what's going to happen so but again there's two parts to this everybody really has to pay attention especially to the second part and that's the debt forgiveness Charter so thank you so much very we have come to the end of our time there are a few additional questions in the chat that we didn't have time to answer but I will pull those out and share them with our panelists so that they can maybe provide written feedback that we could send out to the participants on this call along with a summary of the other questions and answers that have been provided and again we can provide that through email to everyone who signed up and also make it available on our website I'll also remind you that we're going to be talking of greg jian forte about the cares act on to April 7 so you can ask more questions at that time about other aspects of that bill and I thank all of our panelists today for being here I think everyone for joining in and good luck to everyone stay well and we hope you'll join us for future webinars thanks again I think yeah thanks everyone
