How To Sign Arizona Banking IOU

How to industry sign banking arizona iou

I like to welcome you out to our webinar about how currency dealers work it's Monday January nineteenth and I am rob Booker and I'm joined by my associate and friend Justin Hertzberg from Forest Park FX hi Justin a Rob did I good evening everyone if you're joining us live you know that there have been some recent events in the world of forex in the world of brokers that are it's unprecedented and we'd like to spend some time tonight talking about that and then also talking about where you turn for answers and and how you can follow up with us to get more information everybody's telling me to say hello to Justin so hello to Justin first I want to begin the presentation with my condolences and my deeply felt regret and sadness for any of you that lost any amount of money when the Swiss National Bank removed its floor on the Euro swiss franc last week I know that affected some of you and I just want to say that that was nothing less than it had been a financial tragedy to some of you and I just want to say that I feel really badly for you and I've been in a position before where circumstances outside my control took money away from me I Justin I told the story just a couple of times before but back in 2004 I was trading the dollar japanese yen and i was selling the dollar yen and the ministry of finance in japan stepped in and intervened and i took my largest single loss in currency trading i took a fifty-thousand-dollar loss it wasn't exactly 50 thought I wish it was a round number but I took a fifty-thousand-dollar loss and I could not even say the word Japan for some time I was traumatized by that that it was all gone in an instant and so I do i do kind of know how it feels to have to gain back there was a substantial amount of my equity at the time lot of the money that I had worked very hard to build up over time and I just want to say and I'm sure Justin you share that sentiment that we're just sorry that that happened to a lot of you yeah it it was devastating we had a few clients that were impacted and it's it's a sickening and helpless feeling and you really don't know what to tell someone who's been on the other end of that but you know will kind of get into exactly what happened and and maybe maybe help find a way to to put and articulate those feelings and uh and and talk about you know what next in what city from here all right so we're very happy to see here we know many of you are watching this presentation as a recording and we welcome you as well I am rob for those of you that don't know me I've been trading currency for 14 years I was a terrible trader when I started out I got involved in the carry trade in the mid-2000s made a lot of money doing the carry trade built trading systems when the carry trade was sort of turned off and created a counter trend trading system that I called trifecta and i'm joined by justin founder and CEO of forest park FX forest park FX is an introducing broker that helps to lower the transaction costs for traders who trade FX i'd like to read a risk disclaimer at least part of it and i want to make sure that you know that currency trading is not suitable for everyone and does present the risk of substantial loss i want to make sure that you all know that and before deciding to participate in the forex market you should carefully consider your investment objectives your level of experience and your risk appetite most importantly do not invest money that you cannot afford to lose there is considerable considerable exposure to risk in any off-exchange foreign exchange transaction including but not limited to leverage creditworthiness limited regulatory protection and market volatility that may substantially affect the price or liquidity of a currency or current two pair moreover the leveraged nature of forex trading means that any market movement will have an equally proportional effect under deposited funds this may work for you as well as against you and the possibility does exist that you could sustain a total loss of initial margin funds and in some cases be required to deposit additional funds to maintain your position this webinar presentation is live on Monday January nineteenth I am in the Arizona time zone Justin's joining us from the eastern US time zone and we welcome you here what I'd like to make sure that you know is that my good friend Justin as a JD as do I actually which I never used law degree practices the Securities and commercial litigator was a traitor and in-house counsel for several brokerage firms launched Forest Park FX in March of 2013 and forest park FX is a CFTC registered NFA member introducing brokerage firm I want to start the presentation off tonight with just a brief reminder or and/or description Justin of exactly what happened when the swiss national bank made its decision and what happened and if you don't mind I've got I've got the slide ready for you and I just like to turn a moment over to you alright Justin the Swiss National Bank announcement yeah so obviously quite a bit of fireworks last week in ask questions here and Rob you can see the questions I come through many of the people listen yeah feel free to stop me at any time because I do want to answer questions and this is a very sensitive subject for a lot of people you got it but just as a brief recap to kind of add a little bit of color to what happened last week in 2011 the Swiss National Bank made a monetary policy decision to cap the Franks appreciation to the euro and one of the key reasons that they did it with the euro in particular is that given their geographic location and the Swiss economy as a strong exporter of goods they wanted to peg their currency to the currency that was more or less their consumer which was the eurozone and by basically capping the appreciation of the Frank they could make their exports affordable to be eurozone and if the appreciation of the Frank grew to an extent where European consumers could buy goods from other countries then they would start to buy other countries outside Swiss and this this this cap on appreciation or this 120 floor in the euro Swiss was in place for a little over three years and as everyone is now kind of gathered on the 15 Thursday of last week without any notice the Swiss National Bank removed the cap and allowed the Swiss franc to appreciate according to natural supply and demand courses and this was news that was unexpected and unprecedented in the fact that there was no step down approach nothing that said we're going to go from 120 to 119 or 121 18 they simply removed all restriction on the France appreciation relative to the Europe and within moments literally moments a euro swiss gap down from 120 to about 10 three dollar swiss had a gap down of about 28 a big figures and rob you can go back one more there i'm over just to be before picture you can kind of get an image of what the euro swiss looked like and these are 15 minute bars going back a couple days and the market was basically in a six hip range right near the floor and the moment that that news came out that floor evaporated and the market found a new equilibrium way down at the 103 area and rob you can flip forward to that and the beach art on the next slide Rob tells a really interesting story because we all look at charts and we see we see bars we see candles we see a natural progression up or down oftentimes in a random walk pattern and then you look at a chart like this and there is literally nothing between 120 and 103 and if you were caught in the wake of this if you had any Swiss exposure you had a either profoundly positive day or a catastrophic Lee horrible day and that is an image that for some of the people on this webinar for several of my clients they will remember for the rest of their life and it begs the question where did all the liquid if he go and I actually wrote a really interesting article on this that analyzed from a statistical perspective the likely but I've ever seen another currency pair deviate the way that this one did in as short a time frame as it as it did and the calculation came out to be that this is likely to reoccur once every billion years that is how great of a Black Swan type event this was and so okay so we have a Black Swan we accept that this is something that the world has never seen before well what does it mean what was the consequence of this announcement and what we have to remember is that the FX market is not just about giving me the best spread or you slip me half a point here there the FX market is a market place with buyers and sellers and the sellers or the liquidity providers are typically banks brokerages which have an army of people in an army of computers that are running algorithms and programs and measuring their inventory of one currency relative to another and where they think it's going in measures of risk and so on and these algorithms that they use are very very sensitive they're sensitive to slight movements and changes in the market and they adjust in nanoseconds well when you have a bit of news like this it literally breaks the machine in a sense the algorithms can't compute what a fair market for this hair is or any any pair involving the Swiss is and as a result the liquidity providers and their programs pull away they shut off they turn off their liquidity they're no longer quoting and what happens is the liquidity disappears if no one is willing to sell you two won't you euro Swiss dollars with CAD Swiss whatever there is no market it's as if you walked into a Ford dealership and there was no one to sell you force well as much as you might want to buy there's no one there willing to sell it to you and that is essentially what happened here there was no one in these banks and brokerages that knew how to quote Swiss in the wake of this news and until enough data have been processed enough time had passed was there any liquid of you to be found and if some people on this call had positions at fxcm for example and you might have even had a stop loss in one of these pairs and that stop loss would have been triggered but your order might not have been filled for about four hours can you imagine that for four hours fxcm couldn't find someone on the other side of your trade but that is essentially what happened here and it had like I said profound impact on the market on traders on brokers and will kind of get into to that now a little bit Rob if you don't mind just flipping ahead to slides so this is just a little graphic which kind of explains exactly what traders were feeling when they woke up Thursday morning if you had Swiss exposure there was no muted or in between feeling this was a binary outcome and to put it crudely you either woke up rich or woke up broke and for those that had short Swiss exposure not only did you likely wake up with zero dollars in your trading account but you more than likely had a negative balance or what's called a debit balance meaning that you lost more money and you actually had on deposit with that Rover and there are a lot of questions around that and Rob if you want to flip to the next slide yeah sure kind of talk about what a debit balance means and just to give you the definition again you now owe you're broke or more money as you lost more than you had on deposit so if you have a ten-thousand-dollar account as a result of this trade and the fact that your stop loss when it finally got executed your account might be negative thirty thousand dollars for example and from a general standpoint you are more or less responsible for that 30 thousand dollars to your broker now that said most retail brokers have language in their customer agreements that state that clients are not responsible or liable for debit balances so if you had a negative thirty thousand dollars in your account the broker is basically going to zero that out they're going to say well you know we're not going to come after you for the thirty thousand dollars now they may decide that they don't want you as a customer anymore or if you put up money towards uh refunding your account that they're going to seize that money but if you just walk away from the situation they'll let you walk away now others have language in their trader agreements or customer agreements that leave open some room for interpretation I'm not going to get into what specific language you should or should be looking for or what language means one thing versus another but if someone has any questions about that feel free to email me or call me I'm happy to review your specific trader agreement and assess what I think the likelihood is that you might have a some liability for a debit balance but but practically speaking it's unlikely that your broker will pursue a debit balance against you and for those clients with certain brokers perhaps o and O or direct FX or thin FX or lots of places they've already come out and sent email saying that something to the effect of we stand behind our clients we will not be pursuing any kind of balances and it's business as usual other firms have not yet come out with that perhaps they're trying to figure out what their full exposure is what they want to do going forward but it would be a very difficult undertaking for a broker to go after each and every one of its clients in a legal yeah I I want a second that for those of you that are worried or have friends that are thinking about it I I worked at a broker in 2008 I was the chief market strategist at interbank FX and on Sunday nights in 2008 and early 2009 traders would on Sunday night's watch the market gap open five hundred to a thousand pips and the pound Ian and I remember being at interbank FX when they made the internal decisions to let go of that client debt or whatnot and most brokers are going to make that same decision and of course there can be no guarantees made about that but for most of you and your friends and our friends in this business you don't have something to worry about the reason you have a negative balance is that imagine or imagine someone out there trading the euro Swiss franc and their stop loss let's say there if it falls a thousand pips that would use up all of their usable margin and their account would go to zero literally there was no price quoted at that level it had to fall another full thousand points before there was any even quote given so theoretically they were gut they were stopped out of the trade when the floor had dropped out of their trading account if you are a bank trading with another Bank you owe that other bank money but as a currency trader in the retail space you don't necessarily oh the broker anybody yeah it's it's a bit of a trade-off you know when you trade on the institutional side of the world you have a lot greater access you have a lot more information you have a lot of market depth and tools that are retail trader doesn't have but you're also treated like an institution and institutions are liable for their debts when you trade on the retail space it's a trade off you you give up access to certain information you take what the broker gives you you used the liquidity that the broker offers and in exchange the broker is supposed to protect you because you're not an institution because you're you're a regular Joe you're a you're a dabbler you're a guy who's got another profession and he trades because he's interested he wants to learn the market and it's it should be their job to protect you and they're supposed to build systems to do that wrong and and at those systems right down and you occur debit balance they're not supposed to go after you exactly not exactly and Phil brings up a good question hi Phil and Phil's comment was wouldn't this wouldn't this be more of a problem this whole situation is more of a problem for a broker that perhaps didn't have a dealing desk would you agree with that Justin or yeah and and we're going to get into that one thing I before we do and I want to address those question because it's a very poignant one for this the time that we're in right now but just one thing and Rob I'm sure your your listeners are very well educated as a function of all your webinars but I just want to reiterate that stop losses are not guarantees of the price at which you get stopped out a stop loss s nothing more than a threshold and when that threshold is crossed your stop loss order simply becomes a market order and that market order will get executed at the next available market price and that might be at the price of your stop loss it might be a bit better it might be a bit worse but in the case of what happened on Thursday it could be a thousand pips worse it could be 2,000 pips worse and and that's what happened but it's it's unlikely that anyone with a debit balance is going to have their broker come after them like you said Rob there are no guarantees but practically speaking it's it's bad from a reputational perspective and it's almost unmanageable from an administrative and legal perspective to actually do it yeah and and hopefully we don't see any brokers going after their clients yeah it's unlikely that we'll see any of that but a lot of great a lot of great questions um my friend randy says for most of us small traders the broker normally takes the other side of our trade correct and that is true and in that instance it was simply essentially a side bet between the broker you look you know in some cases you lost and the broker won the broker took your account doesn't want to rub salt into the wound and that's that's that's what when I was at interbank effects and I know this you would expect me to say something like this but I i sat in meetings where management considered legal action against clients and I watched the management simply refuse to treat the customers like that and it was a it was a bright moment in in my experience with brokers which generally have a terrible reputation and this this could be another one of those instances where essentially brokers who have lost a lot of money there are some non dealing desk brokers who lost hundreds of millions of dollars and they and let's let's talk about that yeah or we get into me me the healing desk non dealing desk situation because it will lead in okay and I think it's in light on Hills question and some of the others you might flipping forward one slide Rob absolutely not here we go okay so we're going to try to go through this and what I've prepared this I wanted to to go through this in sort of a pragmatic way to explain what happened on Thursday and how its impacted the market participants market participants getting you and your bro first and so I kind of want to go through a little bit about what does a debit balance mean to your broker now sort of on on Phil's question and and we'll just give a quick 30 second overview of difference between dealing desk and non dealing desk a healing desk broker means that your broker is essentially the counterparty to every trade that you place if you buy the euro dollar they sold UT or a dollar if you sell dollar yen they bought the dollar yen from you it's it's a it's a two-person equation that's it you have you on one side the broker on the other side but when you deal with a non-healing des broker your broker is actually just sitting in the middle as sort of a facility of water flow and on the one side they have you the traitor and on the other side they might have 10 15 20 different tanks and other brokers and they're receiving quotes of all of those brokers and banks and their aggregating them to show you the best kid in the best offer and when you trade when you go out and buy dollar yen that you don't know it they're not directing that to any one particular bank or brokerage but you are getting the best offer in dollar yen at that moment in time and it might be with with bank number two and when you go to sell that position it might be with Hank number five and your broker let's say for this example is fxcm fxdd M is just sitting in the middle and they are facilitating your order flow with all of the different liquidity providers that are out there and FX iam doesn't have a hand or a vested interest in your profitability they are indifferent to your making or losing money they just make money on transaction value so going back to the bullets here with a non dealing desk broker the counterparty to your trade is often a bank or brokerage on the other side that's unknown to you at the time it might equal the Sachs JP Morgan it might be some other larger brokerage that you don't know but you're but they're anonymous to you and here's the interesting thing the banker brokerage that's selling you the dollar yen doesn't know you specifically either they don't know that this is rob Walker's account or Justin hertzberg's account what they see is they see an order coming from a tech CM and you trade under the SCM umbrella and all of their clients trade under that umbrella so all those FX implants put in orders buy and sell all day long and to those counterparties on the other side they're just trading with fxcm and it's that process that created the issue or fxcm and abari and excel markets the several others because here what happened on Thursday if you as the trader lose more money than you have in your account fxcm is doing those trades with it with all the different liquidity providers in their name so guess what if your account goes negative thirty thousand dollars fxcm has to pay that thirty thousand dollars to the liquidity providers on the other side of that transaction and either they can choose to come after you for the thirty thousand dollars they lost or they're just out that money and that's essentially what happened with these three brokers here and with a number of others is that fxcm clients had debit balances in excess of 225 million dollars on the day and fxcm has to make good on that money to all of the different liquidity providers that it yields with so all of a sudden fxcm is out 225 million dollars and all they have is an IOU from their clients essentially and that's essentially what but their permit risk that's what caused out re to file for insolvency in the UK and that's what caused Excel market specifically glows ignores that the losses sustained by their clients were ultimately borne by the groper itself when paying its counterparties and and that is the real one of the one of the truest and most profound risks that in dealing desk in the retail FX face encounters they typically have a no-risk hands-off approach but guess what what happened on Thursday happens then all their clients lose money they have to make good on their clients losses and that's an extraordinary it's an extraordinary circumstance that in this sense brokers who we spend a lot of time making fun of or accusing of all kinds of disgustingly horrible things in some of these cases the broker is essentially going to either cover your losses or declare insolvency so that you don't have to cover your losses like literally that is I'm not saying that's kind of what's happening that's that's essentially what these brokers are grappling with is this problem and I know that some of you think it's kind of poetic justice that a broker and sup not like in the same problem that you've been put in before so in any place you know you gotta you have to be careful not to necessarily wish that on anyone because if that were happening good to your broker and your broker wasn't honest straightforward or in a developed jurisdiction they could decide well they're going to file for bankruptcy but guess what what if you were on the winning side of that tree or what if you were sleeping and you had absolutely no exposure whatsoever you just have money sitting there well they disappear with your money you know that's also a bad situation right which is why you want to trade with the broker that's large hopefully publicly traded has access to the capital markets it's why trading with fxcm was good and bad FX Siam's business model couldn't keep up with the the the situation on Thursday morning but fxcm s financial strength and reputation for paying its bills on time you don't ever doubt drew NIV who is the founder and CEO of fxcm you just don't doubt the man the man is and he is he does not he does not give up and they found a way they have access to fight you know financial resources that other smaller brokers do not you can't plan on your broker never having a problem but you can certainly trade with a broker that's that's the right fit for you and that's that's why justin is here is because that's what Justin does for yeah and and you know with rael we'll talk a little bit about Ealing desks now and the difference so you know that what happened and these firms that you're seeing the lower are non dealing desk firms or straight through processing firms whatever language or vernacular you want to use interestingly enough the dealing desk firms out there performed the best in this crisis and the reason is is that the liquidity that needed to be there to execute orders long or short Swiss during this crisis was provided by your youngest they're the only counterparty they're the only one that you heal with and essentially the kneeling desks have risk profiles and parameters in place to largely prevent against clients from going to have it balance and you might have gone to 0 you might have even incurved maybe a small debit balance but nothing of the magnitude that some of the other firms some of the non-healing desk firms encounter right and you know there's always been a great rivalry between fxcm in for X calm over the years especially within the US and the fundamental differences between the two were never better illustrated than on Thursday where fxcm was 225 million in client assets and being capital or forex.com turned a profit yeah they made money because think about it when when fxcm clients lost money on Thursday morning some bank on the other side as you can see on my screen some bank wins when clients have gained capital lost on Thursday gain capital one that means that that means a gain capital could immediately say we're not taking we're not going to chase after you for a negative account balance we already just got your entire account they don't need any more of it that's why oh and uh and gain they did quite well on that day and it's not to say that gain is smart and fxcm is dumb that's an oversimplification of the issue but it is to say that not every broker is right for every trainer right and and there are there are lots of factors to look at in choosing a broker it's not just about price but sometimes it's about execution technology service reliability stability execution model you know how much does it matter to you to be able to sleep at night knowing my funds are segregated my clumsy I see in order my accounts never going below zero those are the types of questions that everyone needs to ask themselves in trying to find a brokerage solution that suits them suits that risk tolerance and their trading strategy and and not every broker is right for every trader one of the first things that we say when we talk to a client and we kind of go through this dialogue or question-and-answer processes you know how can we help you arrive at the type of trader you are and what type of risk tolerance you have to find the best fit and you know one thing I do want to reiterate because we I mean my firm especially we filled it probably didn't need 60 questions from clients on on fxcm alone is you know should I be pulling my money out of fxcm again I trust them the the capital injection that they got on friday from Jeffries was not a surprise he costs historically fxcm is an extremely profitable broker extremely reliable broker they are perhaps the largest FX retail broker in the world and what happened on Thursday like I said was a once in a million years event statistically the likelihood of this happening again is remote the likely of it happening again and fxcm being as ill-equipped to deal with it from a liquidity standpoint is even more remote and the fact that fxcm is now back in compliance with its liquidity providers packing compliance with regulators we can all rest comfortably knowing that it's business as usual and for those clients who have been up at night thinking I don't know what to do with my money it's there do I have to get it out I closed all trades at this point you should feel as comfortable as you did on Wednesday night in fact you should probably feel more comfortable because what happened on Thursday in terms of the magnitude of the event and the way ethics team handled it is likely to never happen again and if you are there you can continue to trade with confidence if you are thinking about it or hold your money maybe maybe you don't want to be with them but we see no risk in remaining and fxcm customer and frankly you should share it with confidence there again yeah there's no question in my mind either I've known them for a long time okay so this has been everybody so far are you getting some answers uh how's that going for everybody are you you appreciate what um Justin's got here for you it has been really great I've really enjoyed this conversation so far really have enjoyed this there's of course there's a lot of unanswered questions that are at this point unanswerable like what someone asked me today what's going to happen next and I said the likely things to happen next or are not this this is not what's likely to happen next there be other external causes of much volatility in 2015 which will be the subject of another and different webinar so anything else you want to say about this Justin before we move on to how traders here can get more answers from you specifically about their individual situation yeah actually I'll just spend about a minute on on sort of what's next in terms of what can we expect this being the ripple effects of this this event from last week and a couple things one is this was a great example of how interconnected the world and the financial markets are so the swiss national bank makes a decision and it sends shockwaves throughout the world causing million-dollar perms to possibly go under I'll see hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue to be lost and there's a there's a consensus out there that this decision was very irresponsible that the central bank's need to consider not just their own immediate economy and economic needs but a ripple effect that it will have on the world and I think that we won't see an announcement of this magnitude probably for another generation or two for one I also think that from a regulatory standpoint we're going to see renewed conversations about leverage about debit balances how firms are handling them about risk controls that firms are breaking plays about certain mandatory requirements or limits on the quiddity the firms have to have I think we're going to see a lot of things about that coming six to 12 months and and but but hopefully this is like I said a 12 billion year thing and there we go back to business as usual those rooms our business as usual these days yeah that's true and in Justin when the Chinese wrong experience is some kind of revaluation which will come that will definitely affect the Japanese yen but I can i can certainly speculate with a fair degree of certainty that it's not going to go down like this and we've been talking about that for years and it's nobody here is trading the Chinese currency nobody here is doing that so have you don't have exposure to the Chinese currency and most of you don't have exposure to the singapore dollar and most of you don't have exposure to the hong kong dollar don't trade any of those don't ever get involved in any of that stuff and as long as you do that you're going to be safer keep your trade size small talk to Justin about the type of trading you do and make sure you're at a broker that is more likely to be able to sustain that type of situation a lot of traders are asking well how could how good traders prevent from being in this kind of a situation and that the only answer is not a satisfactory one at this point and it is don't sit on don't ever sit on top of what is proposed to be a guaranteed trade ever again that's what happened here traders had huge position sizes on what they assumed to be a central bank floor don't ever don't ever do anything like that the biggest lesson here is there is no easy money and don't ever take a position size that assumes that such a thing exists none of you here are responsible for what happened and the Swiss National Bank was did it highly irregular and irresponsible thing for which there is little to no recourse for the average investor however going forward the best things that you can do don't trade currencies with pegs like the Chinese one or the Hong Kong dollar don't pay those number two don't hold large positions or highly leveraged positions for long periods of time in what is referred to you as a guaranteed win or anything of the sort and the next thing is keep your trade size reasonably small and don't don't trade with a lot of leverage and that those are not those are not great answers but so far those are the only ones what we have and as time goes on we will certainly present to you as much information as we can about what you can do in the future to protect yourself yeah it's very well said Rob and I think what are you were affected or not affected this is a lesson to to take the heart and make sure that I mean you don't need it or you don't get caught up in it when it happens with another currency pair and that's that's that's the whole you know the biggest takeaway that that that your webinars off and get its you know learn from other people's mistakes you know leverage the experience of others and and try not to kind of make their mistakes try not to dig yourself a hole but you use the the information that you're receiving here isn't as a rule to ascend your own learning curve a little bit faster and that's a good point now a lot of you have additional questions about your specific situations and Justin this is as good a time as any to make sure that they know they know some final things about what they should know about their broker and what they should know about you yeah so the solo with with brokers as I said it's not you know every every trader has their own sort of unique package and not every grill or is the right fit for every traitor and you want to know your brokers policies their Liberty stability reliability put service offers they have platforms they offer technology packages rebate policies with your introducing broker all of these things sort of fill out a matrix and you want to find the right fit for you based upon that matrix excuse me and we can help you sort of navigate that or you you don't have to have all the answers you don't have to do all the research you can engage in the conversation tell us who you are what you're looking for where you in what your experience is and we will try to help you find that right fit for you you know what do I do now dealing desk versus non-healing desk this is going to be the most asked question that we're going to get her the foreseeable future kneeling desks clearly handled financial crises better and the non dealing desks begin capital made money fxcm lost 200 point five million that's great for arts com is right now probably the most reliable broker in the world based upon how it handled though the Black Swan of this industry it doesn't necessarily mean that they're right for you certainly worth a look certainly are the conversations in and up for consideration but you may still eat best serve with a non dealing desk it just depends and you have to engage in that conversation and that dialogue will find out where where the right broker is with the ripe / is one thing that that we do in addition to trying to help traders find the right broker help to answer their questions help to guide them is we offer cash back rebates with pretty much every broker we work within the US and some non-us brokers through our non-us entity and I've listed a couple of new year you know one of the things that we do is a core tenet of our business as we try to make your trading more cost-effective we try to make your trading smarter we try to put you in a position to succeed and one of the most tangible ways that we can do that is offering you a cash back rebate we will essentially make a cheaper for you to trade through us with one of our brokers then by going direct to that broken and in fact we don't have any clients where we don't actually add value to what they're doing I I want to go to sleep at night knowing i did right by my clients and this is one of the ways that i can say yeah at a bare minimum i reduced your forex com cost of trading by half a hip on every grounder by two tens of hit won every round turn a toll and I mean the reason I work with justin is and many of you know this already for the rest of you it's going to sound like him I'm a total what this is not going to sound legitimate but listen the I do a lot of stuff for free like this webinar and I do a lot of presentations at no charge I dearly care about traders and I have made every mistake I have worked with brokers who are dishonest I have gotten caught in bad trades Justin's been on the inside and on both sides and what Justin does now is without changing your spreads Justin will hook you up with a broker that is going to fit your needs as a traitor for the trade size that you're going to take and then you're going to whatever there's money always going to your broker in that spread and justin is going to return some of that that would ordinarily just go to the broker he's going to return that to you and that sounds ridiculous but those spreads and commissions are markups on trades that brokers have built into the price of a trade so that they can rebate or pay introducing brokers like Justin what Justin doesn't he turns around and it gives you back a substantial portion a majority portion of that rebate that's there's not anything else like this in the business and Justin does that because once justin gets thousands of traders together doing that and he has built a business on the back of this over the years once justin gets thousands of traders doing this justin gets paid a small amount you get paid a larger amount your transaction costs go down you get hooked up to the broker that you is going to fit your needs better you have somebody to that you can call when your broker engages in some kind of crazy shenanigans and you might say well where's the catch well the catch is the money is going to you and a little bit to Justin instead of all to the broker that's the only catch it's crazy but this business allows for that kind of circumstance to happen so I introduced every trader I know to Justin even if you have an account established somewhere you should talk to Justin and to say for what I'm doing is this the right place to be and it's only going to benefit you like you're only going to get some of the money right now goes only to the broker you're only going to end up getting some of that back and some of your clients Justin get I don't really they make like seven hundred dollars in rebates or whatever in a month oh we've got clients that make five thousand dollars a month yeah so you get paid so you at least get some of those transaction costs back which otherwise you're not going to get those back and you're going to take the same trades anyway yeah and and look where we're not we're not in the philanthropy business we're not in the milking business we're in the making money business you and I and as a traitor your job as you make as much money as possible and every saved is if you don't necessarily have to make in the market so take advantage of every advantage that's out there every opportunity that's out there and we are we are simply aligning our business with yours instead of aligning our business with the brokers and we are your ally so yeah Rob you said it very well thank you for the endorsement that certainly means a lot and I know we already have many of your your tfl subscribers as clients and now all I can do is hope that they refer others and you know we'll continue to uh yeah Justin's customers yet Justin's customers include a lot of big names in big names in currency trading my friend Boris Schlossberg is here tonight in the webinar and Boris is a client of Justin's so I mean we're all you know once you once you realize this is available to you we're all on this boat like this is the this is great a lot of traders asking if specific brokers are involved in the program this isn't some kind of bait and switch where Justin's only got one dealer literally Justin let's assume that someone could trade anywhere in the world how many brokers can you connect people to right now we probably have agreements with about thirty we can add if you need to but we do a lot of due diligence on our brokers we try to work with only the ones that are large stable reputable regulated well capitalized so that our clients money is that your they're dealing is fair and consistent because not that we have any control over what a broker does with the clients account and trading but I always feel like if we send the client someplace and the broker does something underhanded well we're guilty by association and I don't want to ever be guilty by association so we try to pick the best of the best and and I think we have and we do constantly review it we remove firms from our list we add new ones that we think are good and worthwhile and we are we're doing that to give the best options that we think to our clients yeah Charles here tonight Charles I think it's Charles tongeren hi Charles Charles is saying justin is a good man and great to work with and other other advantages besides these rebates Justin are there other advantages besides those rebates we I think you just talked about them I mean you just said it but you know you can repeat it again no listen one of the things that we we have worked on recently which I'm very excited about and is actually quite relevant in light of the news that n FX is no longer accepting us clients as of the end of this month is that forest park is working with ATC brokers on a basically a joint venture of sorts where clients can use the ATC brokers front-end mt war which allows for hedging and is not restricted by 50 and at the same time you can also get rebates in that process so it's a it's a best of both worlds for those that need it for now goes or their particular trading strategy you can now edge and avoid 50 and get rebates on your trading all the while staying with a us-brokered if you need to stay with the US broker yeah that's really interesting thing you do help lions who want to become money managers so if you're interested in pursuing that we can help you with the regulatory process we can help you find strategies money managers that suit your investment profile you know if you realize that hey I'd love you be a great trader but maybe I'm not but perhaps I can put my money with someone who is you can help you through that process as well at the end of the day we're a solutions for whatever your particular needs concerns or questions are we voice them to us and let us see how we might be able to help you and we've got a pretty good track or doing that yeah if you have a if you have a concern or a problem with your broker Justin knows the people at the broker gets on the phone and he can help oh yeah he can help you that's that's common that's a very common that's several hours every day of just uh just tackling free training issues platform issues broker issues trying to try to speed up that process you can do it all yourself but you're going to start with the lowest level of customer support at a broker yeah you're all for me to get a lot of misdirection and is Miss information we can streamline that for you what we try to do ultimately is were you up so that you can focus on trading and we'll handle all the administrative crap and once again every broker has a spread and every broker has a markup some brokers have a commission you're going to pay that anyway you're not going to get any of that back I just need to reemphasize that in exchange for Justin bringing the brokers more business they give back to Justin a portion of those transaction costs and then Justin cuts you a check for the in some cases seventy percent of that transaction costs it's it varies between brokers so justin gets paid you get mostly paid the broker gets the business and it's just a and i get to do webinars I love traders I love traders everyone I you know you might not know me very well but this is my life it's my it is my mission in life to associate with and improve the lives of traders and it is unquestionably not easy to explain but I have been blessed to be a traitor to make my living from trading and to associate with the finest people in the world who take risks every day and so it has been my goal at a time of uncertainty in the markets when it is very difficult to get a straight answer to a question it is my pleasure and it's a privilege to bring you someone who can answer your questions and keep this this whole thing going because it's times like this that people who will otherwise make a lot of money one day end up leaving the business because they just don't understand where to get an answer about how risky it is or whatever else it is so I want to say it's time for us to go if you have an account already at any one of those brokers Justin can still help you so whatever you do don't delay make sure you contact justin his email address is on the screen right now and I've put it in the chat window of this webinar Justin I want to say thank you on behalf of everyone here and I know that a lot of people are already typing in the chat box that they are getting ready to contact you tomorrow so I'll get you'll be hearing from a bunch of trainers here tomorrow excellent well thanks again and thanks everyone for participating and the knows that will be attending your your expo Rob in a couple weeks I will be there and before your meeting as many of you as I can okay so thanks again and hopefully we'll find a way to work together thanks everybody get in touch with Justin and I will see you very soon talk later bye for now