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okay so our next panel is going to be about regulation understanding adapting to changes in regulation just while the guys are unit their mics on let me just sort of set the soon regulation is really important to an industry like yours and understanding where it's going is really important and sometimes I think we we don't take enough time to actually understand some of the key things that can have a big impact on the way you communicate your customers to wave grow your business and whatever I came across an amusing story of a of a doctor who had a patient come in an elderly lady and it's just complaining about her husband's performance and he said down though we've got good solutions for that nowadays and what I would recommend is viagra and she said Nana my husband he understands is it health freak he won't even take an ass bro when he's got a Hello so it's just not going to work he said don't worries and just when you're having a coffee he's not looking just that the viagra is the coffee it should work anyway so three months later she comes back and the doctors saw her and said although I had to go with the viagra in she said a little bit embarrassing a little bit disappointing got then he said why and she said sure it worked she said well what happened was I did as you instructed he got from the table and he white all the the cups and saucers off the table we dragged me on the table and he made passionate love to me for two hours and the doctor said well what are you complaining about she said well the big problem is I'll never be able to show herself in that coffee shop ever again ah so obviously understanding the nature of the instructions is very important please we welcome out our panelists to the stages now please thank you for the regulation panel click junkie okay so we have Michael today is a senior executive leader deposit takers crib insurers of astok Joe Sirianni another legend of the industry directed smartline Tim Brown who's the present of the EMF double a micro York you're there right Joe that's right and of course he's a CEO of valve financial and we have Stephen law is the CEO of choice he's coming up right now so when we take a seat and I'll get the certain position and will kick off the panel okay so this is the question that we have put to all of you and I think it's a a really important one regulators have been particularly active since the GFC with intense scrutiny on property prices and associated lending at a global level Buzzell committee is working on their latest set of recommendations which if implemented by opera may restrict banks appetite and ability to approve home loan applications particularly those with high LVR is the current level of regulation in the Australian more which markets efficient and should we adopt policy recommendations from global regulators who may be unfamiliar with our domestic circumstances so Michael being from a spec once you kick off sure thank you um i guess it's i can only comment from an acid perspective on these issues some of the issues you've touched upon relate to prudential matters which a perez is is the right regulator to to talk to but from an acid perspective i think increasingly regulators are looking at other jurisdictions for lessons learned in particular i think to to avoid some of the issues that have been encountered in other jurisdictions to be more proactive and not wait for issues to arise and then have to sort of address those issues after the event I think in a lot of cases arguments are made that we're different in Australia or that our situation is different and that may be true to some extent but i think it's not a waste true and i think we can with there are lessons that can be learned from other jurisdictions from Essex perspective our focus is really on ensuring that individual borrowers are being put into the right loan operas concern is more systemic and looking at the the financial system as a whole and the financial system inquiry had a lot to say about that issue and I think was pretty emphatic that although our circumstances might be different in Australia there's a strong case for for raising some of the sort of credential thresholds so that we are unquestionably a very strong banking system within Australia is asset concerned that we've become a little less secure because we have lack have black morlac standards than we had maybe say ten years ago I wouldn't say that no i think the introduction of the national consumer credit protection act in 2010 was obviously a big change for the industry we've now got a responsible lending obligation and that's still relatively new it's not been the subject of very much judicial consideration but I think overall standards have been raised you know mortgage brokers an hour licensed then they're all now members of external dispute resolution and I think generally oversized and standards across the industry have been raised I wouldn't say there's still not room for improvement there certainly is but I think my work is a great government where although yeah so there's a good observation without a doubt Joe you've seen from lots of angles here what do we think the current situations I think I think it's a problem looking for our solution looking for a problem I don't see the problem in Australia moment I mean lending is quite it's quite strong in terms of banks of good policies good processes the rears are very low probably made us moving what quite well I don't see there's any necessity to change or implement legislation that will handle that I mean in New Zealand they put a cap on lending I'll be ours I spoke a lot about that industry but we didn't do it and the regulator's been quite good at talking things up and talking of what they're going to do and they're monitoring the economy quite well I think the probably Martha the jawbone yes I think they don't they do a lot of talk about what they've proposed me to do they haven't implemented in of ink severe they're really handle the market and I think people are just cing on that basis so I don't think right now perhaps with rates are low people walking in it's r off the regulator chicken and raises concerns and they're talking about the concerns but I'm not seeing any signs of really dire straits mr. yeah we all on so they can read a certain writer who will vary tell us our banks are very vulnerable to excessive lending do you want to throw something at that writer when you read that there has to be a friend of mine doesn't look at nitrous two for joy yeah look I think plenty of the man is quite quite quite good you know I mean it's all about portability and ncc please put that forward in terms of making sure the client can afford the line and if they can he'll be ours my behind but what abilities an issue and it's unsafe problem and all the stage and and balance sheets from borrowers of the best of any incorrect in donkey's yep user I don't know the statistics but so I might know that they did a lot people in advance and consummate last I think you're about to easy yeah ninety percent of borrowers at 12 months or more in advance appearance so Tim you've been the banking game for a long time so what what do you think the position is look I think generally the consumer residential component is well controlled I think the problem i see evident and i talked to a report about the side of the weekend on arrears and more foreclosures happening is that it's not where the residential mortgage transaction occurs it's what happens after that you know we put in the buffers as mortgage brokers to make sure that the clients have got enough money for a two percent rate increase the considered i've got is then they go to Harvey Norman get a 12 month interest free we know affordability is required or they go to a chaotic the point of sale where there was no nccp requirement and that's where the client start to get over committed and I think that's an area that needs to be regulated and I think for a sec that's where they should put their focus because they don't stop people from over-committing forces so but when it comes to the vulnerability of our banks as a consequence of lending practices in recent years and are you worried at all not concerned certainly at this point in time I think we're certainly seeing stronger balance sheets that we've seen in a decade and we see that with corporations as well so I have less concerns around that space than maybe some do overseas but I I find it hard to replicate what occurred in some of the other countries because for me that was you know just needless lending given to the wrong borrowers me I haven't seen any evidence of that he gets to but well first of all look we share would be close to looking to you know other markets to the Peru for improvement think that's that's important but as is relevance for the local market I guess that's the most important thing but from from my point of view yeah we were close to the vasty Capra and government on ensuring a robust market when it comes to regulation and our view is that you know the current regulation is effective and if you look at the broker market in particular I know is you know where we have a license credit licence and probably one of the London the largest broker credit licence in the marketplace and where we aren't comfortable that standards now five years in and certainly you know the feedback we've had through from masuk is his echo that as well when you look at the overall market and I recall was either the IMF or the IMF sent a couple of economists over here to look to investigate our housing bubble the fact that I thought there wasn't housing bubbles they have investigated I do thing was it was someone actually from gym with who actually made this observation to me and we was talking to them they were totally unaware that in Australia we actually have to pay back our loan they actually staggered The Economist that was sent out here just to investigate our our bubble that we actually has a public lands does that tell us who this virtual you cuz they give us a bit more security as a lending market Michael anything it's hard to say I think you might try and compare our situation to markets where I'm not full recourse yeah you've got yourself you can return the case I don't know that there's any evidence to suggest that it makes a big difference I think that the the subprime market in the US was was totally different to what we experienced you and so I think I don't think you can just draw an analogy and say well just because people could return their keys over there if if they couldn't then we wouldn't have had a situation we had in the US I don't think it's that straightforward but it does mean that lenders are more vulnerable in the USA as a consequence of that doesn't it yes there that's right there on the hook of the people in America King if he can employ just tossed the keys yet here you know we might have to work part time jobs and sell stuff and try and actually pay that loan up we might walk away in the end but there's this a little bit more imperative on the Australian borrowing and that meant to me makes the bank's was a bit more bankable go agree agree but its trains a lot of homeownership another everything to pay the mortgage you know they'll cut going out change the expenditure so they can make the mortgage repayments and in fact in Australia a lot of people hold on to their house too long before they go to the banks that are in trouble I mean because I try to do everything try to keep the papers up to date so we've got a attitudinal change difference here in the US where people really want to hold on to their house and will do anything to make sure they make the repentance okay so this one is directed at once against you Michael and ten Capra's layers mortgage lending guide a PG 223 outlines additional controls and monitoring of third-party originate loans why do you think the third-party banking channel requires these additional controls and monitoring when compared to other origination channels so you've refer to an acro in prudential guide we worked with a pro on on that guide and they obviously worked with us when we updated our responsible lending guidance and I think the the point there is not that brokers specifically are a risk area but that whenever you've got a situation where the distribution of your product is done you know in a dispersed way whether that's through a national branch network on tractors versus a corporation yeah that's one example yes so where that's happening and you don't have full control over the conduct of those people then their risks that you've got to manage in the way and and i think the obligations that a pro is seeking to impose I'm not all that different to the obligations that credit licensees have under the nccp Act you've got a credit licence you've got obligations to supervisor monitor your representatives and make sure you're doing that in an adequate way we've put out a few public statements about that where we've seen short shortfalls and we will continue to monitor that it's a really important area and I think operas point there is that you know there is a risk and it just needs to be managed properly okay yeah this is a difficult one because some I think banks have as much pressure on them to perform in sales role as does a broker to earn a commission and I think write an article recently where which filled a done a report where he said that the average loss in the banking system through problems about four million dollars per annum which is quite large when you think about there's a net loss after the sale of the property so you're talking yeah we don't have statistics in the broker market on shore genworth might be able to help there or not sure but I'd like sure you like to see the stats on where the losses are but before we actually start pointing the finger and saying that a third party is worse than a retail channel because my experience in something working in the banks people have committed just as bad in the sense of fraud and I think in any component where you're accepting information from a third party whether you being a retail bank or a broker you just have to be really careful about seeing the original information because I think that's where most for it tends to occur hmmm JD review of it yeah look I think as a third-party dealing with it with a bank the onus is on us to ask the right questions for my client so I think that's fair I mean we need to ask what their expenditures are work out if they can afford it does not accept banks default settings I think that's a fairly sure but in terms of a reason fault broker versus direct well in my day in the bank it was a sign well as it isn't interesting maybe 10 years ago banks were less entrepreneurial but yeah I've been to a number of conferences and the the personnel are paying loads of the branches innocence be encouraged of his entrepreneurial as I am always broken out later well I recall the bank just give it about 20 staff a month the fraud was prevalent everywhere but direct and bravo channel disturbing you're getting contributions you just talking with with lenders in and I know from from a nap perspective when it comes to quality of business and you know to cross first party versus broker we know that broker businesses in fact just ahead of first-party when it comes to quality book at the moment so you know there's something to said for quality broker business that sure looked it just a quick one just to point out you know buried in these these reefs is just to call effort for genworth and that was you know an acknowledgement of the value of LMI when it comes to risk management of lenders I thought there was a real positive to come out the findings as well yeah okay no I'm here Mikey they put you on the hot side obviously think acids pretty important with this industry as it recently released an updated version of their responsible when your guide our jutsu 09 which changes are of most relevance to prioritize do you think so i think the changes we've made were made to reflect the decision in the the cash store madam which was a court decision ostensibly about a payday lender which which has now gone out of business the reason that decision is important ad why we updated our g 209 to reflect that court's decision is because it's the first quarter the responsible lending obligations and although the it concerned the conduct of a payday lender the court made findings in general about the responsible lending obligations and one of the key findings it made was that it said it's axiomatic that a lender would make inquiries about the income and expenses of a borrower in discharging its responsible lending obligations and a sec has always said that that's what you need to do in our responsible lending guidance but the court made that quite clear and so we updated our guidance to reflect the court's decision I think the key thing there is not so much income because I think generally speaking particularly for a home line it's uncontroversial that you would ask the borrower what their income is but it seems to be a little bit more controversial about whether the borrower gets to us asked what their expenses are and I think I think it's now quite clear that you can't avoid asking a borrow of what their expenses are and you certainly can't assume without asking the borrower that their expenses are going to be something like Henderson poverty index or hgm or some other benchmark now you can use those benchmarks to test whether the borrower's expenses are are reasonable the one that the expenses that are being declared a reasonable but you can't simply assume that those are the expenses and I think we're still encountering some lenders who are resisting that I don't know if they're how much longer they'll resisted by the arguments to local food use one of the arguments is that borrowers don't declare their expenses truthfully and so there's no point asking a bore or what their expenses are now that may well be true and and somewhere was may fail to declare their expenses but I don't think that means you don't have to ask a ball or what their expenses are the point is I think if a borrower declares their expenses and they happen to be a number which is higher than what you would have assumed using an index or benchmark then you can't then just use the benchmark you've got to accept what the borrowers told you about their expenses and I think lenders need to be quite careful about that so when I say lenders I mean lenders and brokers in this space so that you know that's a sixth position and that's the way we will enforce the law okay so Joe what do you fear this fear I think that's fair i mean i don't think customers lie about the expenditure i think it most been most cases that i know of extreme sure is shop but if you ask me I would never clear my wife spends money what you would believe my dog wouldn't have a clue what she's been lit asleep disappear so I don't think consumers live at the expenditure I think it's more pick up a John he doesn't have to be a political correct so when you ask a client at a particular point in time for them to recall all the expenditure at that time at sometimes give people but you're a bit i agree i think it's the onus is on the broker to ask those question is she absolutely look at you know i think certainly you should ask the client but there are some clients and unwary had four hundred thousand dollars in earning no deposit they were spending a hundred thousand on oversee troops and dining out certainly those people could curb their expense i don't think that should be taken to a camp as well and we absolutely say that in our in our guidance if you finally had a borrower who does have expenses of that nature and they want to borrow and it's not unreasonable to expect that a barrel would cut back on and you know overseas trips but i think the important thing is you've got to have that conversation at the borough and you know it's prudent to make a note of that conversation and say look the borrower is spending as much but they're prepared to cut back yeah or did you get the lucky word since prudent yeah you're putting your your business name at risk if you make a silly one that comes back to the hall she doesn't do stir it's also spending the time to really understand the client's needs is the very essence of providing advice responsible lending so to that extent I think makes complete sense you know as does you know non reliance on killers you've got to use judgment and that's you can set that's a core advice as well in fact i'd be that's a differentiator of the broker proposition so it's it's important like we just need to watch in efficiency though so you know what we don't want to do is click the hold of data in one place and then completely replica replica process elsewhere so I think it's just one thing to watch is sure we don't introduce a lot of beneficence e because as we know that its cost of business and ultimately you know consumer ends up we're in the we're in the cost of that yeah but bill so it is a duty of care full of young people yeah because let me just don't actually think about the expense implications of their life or when they're looking a homeland it is so excited about the whole prospect did I think of that what what happens if interest rates got three percent that's the G the brewmaster kind of questions absolutely right Joe has one for you for brokers looking to offer financial advice and those who write SMSF loans recently regulatory changes both on and FSI recommendations present some hurdles what are your thoughts the future of residential smss lending well it's the FSI acquiring a moment they're not too short future is but I think it's not a big chunk of our business at the moment it's certainly a growing segment have a good cast because I'm sorry about that's the part I couldn't tell stories yet they've got a huge deposit about the surplus funds it is super fun so they properly prospectively all the hours low service abilities there it's a it's a clean deal it's an easy deal it's complicated by all the trust and why not but it's it's the good good quality clients I guess the fear is and we're not seeing a lot of it at this day I guess to fear from the regulators point perspective is it mum and dad's going putting all these super in the property yeah that that's probably you know when you got a client who's got a large super fund and the allocator twenty or thirty percent of their cash and borrowing some towards a property that it seems balance and reasonable but where you got mum and dad buying you know they've got a small super fund at all and the property then there's a pile of risk there so I could see their their concerns and that we go but as a pure lend I I don't know of any arrears or the faults and self-managed super fund lending not to make Jim where it's got that data but I would say to be minimal if anything from a letter perspective it's pretty clean obviously the wisdom in it it should continue to grow especially in not this selling residential but also the commercial makes sense for a small business people to buy commercial residents and sitting there super fancy I don't think there's a real problem at the moment that I understand the concerns that obviously for small mum and dad investors it would be for danger too ok I think it's the old one percent doing the wrong thing and the other 99 cent doing the right thing and unfortunate the one percent that hits the media gets all the attention whereas really there's 99% of all the SMSF cyber going to borrowers who have got a lot of money in their server there's a reversal fighting a threat and properly looking at the investment the sense of its capital return its yield and whereas you don't see that on the one percent and unfortunately one bicep it captures the news and that's where it's wrong to sort of make changes in regulation because of the one who said we're publishing to look carefully at all SMS we're going to the gold coast clear area we were they were to pick my god it was to discriminatory yeah and like the broader issue is still that Australians on average have insufficient funds to fund their time so you know we're certainly supportive of any any initiatives to help people accumulate more super and especially to address that longevity risk outgrowing your funds in retirement now whether it's you know property or use of dead etc that you know it has a role to play but we just need to care for the Collette see Michael is actually worried about SMSF loans I think what we're more worried about is people who to chose point about people ending up in situations where they're very concentrated in terms of their investment profile but also people who might have a small super balanced and you've got somebody spruiking in SMSF yeah but in order to buy that property again we would be quite concerned about that as well why don't you guys just come in the exterminators perfectly well why we wait for them to kill people for you guys are giving the body bag ohh we just get rid of these people before happens it's against the law yeah so it's a difficult 1i part of it is that you know there's a lot of it going on and it's difficult for us to monitor and private is also people have the choice to do this at the moment and it's it's whether you know we want to restrict that choice yeah so it's going to be a very interesting issue because a lot of people will be offended if it's taken away but certainly there is a small number of people who I worry about is they got 300,000 and super and you buy a house in the gold coast for the 500 lowering 200 you've got cash in a super time there's something worth borrowing amount yeah ok so next button sits you Stephen the FSI called for the more inquiry of course for greater transparency in the case of vertically integrated broker groups warning that consumers often do not understand these arrangements and they have the potential to limit the benefits of competition does the partial ownership of aggregators by lenders threaten brokers value proposition stuck in my head around the question and well basically imagine if you're around by your back imagine some half from there and somehow some people say maybe you're older in sports by the fact Iran go man look I do have some comments on this some personal for most my fortune transparency it's absolutely important when it puts consumers in a space with a better educated and therefore have more trust in the system so the proposition that's our first and foremost but look I'm actually Mike to step up step back of it that the very the very essence of the broker proposition is a good outcome for Sims and we know that and we know that brokers absolutely pride themselves in providing you know great advice and support for clients at the same time that existence of broker proposition drives competition in the marketplace to so and we know that on average was a native Sentebale home lending the country goes too big for brands before max yet via brokers at seventy-three percent so brokers drive competition when it comes from lending space so that's that's really available and for me what that means is anything that supports the broker proposition to ensure the broker proposition is robustus is sustainable is it is worthwhile and you know choice is owned by that and and like I say that with pride that in that you know we simply would not be in a place that we are today without without NAB's ownership yeah the investment in technology that we have investment in people in marketing in our retail branch which home loans in supporting brokers grow more successful business would simply not be possible without without naps nap support as for the transparency bit look I've got no problems with transparency law as I mentioned before and in fact you know talking to two choice members neither today there's a large number of our members who already already disclosed there with a choice to us provide services me to help me in my business choice is owned by dad which gives a real strength stability security but you get the personal service and advice that I provide as a broker you know I think it's absolutely positive to everyone's look I think each program has a responsible lending requirement and therefore they have to place the line of the best product I think that goes much further than ownership in my world so if at any time the brokers moving outside of that realm then you know they do so at their own peril so I think as long as that is foremost in the brokers minder ownership is probably irrelevant yeah but Jay you've seen the intrusion of banks into the model do you think the industry has suffered because of that no no even this is that at msv to the last independent mortgage broker yup I love to say it's a massive conflict of interest in it's not right and you know as the customers be worn but it's the reality is it comes down to the interface with a broker the brokers gotta do the right thing by the client yeah and acting clients best interest and most of them do that so the ownership is not the issue the only concern then is if the aggregators start to artificially provide incentives in terms of higher commissions for their own product or waving aggregate you know aggregator foods to sort of drive the business in a certain direction so they're going to be very very careful what to do that but you know the reality is an egg gravity owned by bank at a consumer level it shouldn't make a difference where a stochastic a moving on this one it's it's a bit of a policy question and you know vertical integration is not unlawful but i think you know it's a it's a it's a question that the financial system acquire was raised where we would get interested it would be very much at the margins if if somebody was engaging misleading or deceptive conduct about their business model but short of that you know it's really a policy matter okay so which FSI recommendations impacting the third page channel are likely to be adopted by the government and what other potential reader changes should brokers look out for over the next few years no not an easy question for anyone to answer but I'm going to ask it anyways that's different you must have thought about the FSI with weather is it well why do you think could come in and what are other possible regulatory changes that could affect your business yeah we certainly continue to work closely with with all elements of government has taken a nap reward it comes to changes but I must be just just like interest rates I tend not to speculate on what changes getting it up because same applies of regulation I don't have a speculative view on what's going to get up and what's not a sounding two main the main thing is that you know the industry continues to work closely with government on on formulating the best outcome for consumers well when you looked at the recommendation from Murray inquiry was there any there these look hang on this could affect my my business the profitability the the free moon of three actions on my my broken I think from my perspective from the Financial Services inquiry probably didn't go up into competition and I think this leads into another question you might have because i think the murray enquiry said that there was enough competition in the current market which is true in the current market there is but during the juve see it wasn't and for me you need a system that survives not only the good times but the bad times and i think it hasn't gone far enough in that space and and you know from an MF double-a perspective we've always said we like the canadian model we think that has some excellent attributes that could be easily adopted into australia fiji so example where the government guarantees all thunders there through securitisation and that's been going since 1946-47 and running very successfully with no problems and when the GFC in canada lending didn't stop it just continued to operate normally where is he we had all sorts of upsets banks happen to be gay to none of that occurred in heaven the assistant just flew through it without any rush at all and then came out the other end quite strong like Iran economy but I think that there are some things we can learn from the Canadian model that we should adopt here and it also then gives the smaller funders you know the state banks and the the international banks also the same funding ability as some of the majors which familiar ould be much better you know increased competition across the board in the good times and the bad top should be what we've been trying to achieve through this phone into service Joe now there's nothing there that really scared me to be honest with you I'm the super thing might be an issue but we don't know how that plays out the vertical integration issue it transparency is just common sense so I think that'll the adopt that I suspect the Ventus makes that's just the right thing to do from a customer's perspective so there was nothing in there that really scared me no I don't think it was so they think you're still there is your wife spending an issue that concerns before that's right yeah I might be used at somewhere journalist so Tim the fsa's recommended a number of measures intended to increase the ability of non mages to complete the big for example which risk weights what should be done to increase competition and will this benefit the end consumer will impact the role of the program again I probably going back by answering the previous question I feel that you know funding has to be put in place for the good times and the bad times no I still feel that the FSI hasn't gone far enough you think the government will agree with some of the recommendations of the FSI in making it easier for smaller lenders to feel in power or little playing field with people I don't actually because I think David Murray made it very clear that he felt that there was no problems with a current competition waiting Joe ah look I hope they do a bit of basil the dresses at more doesn't in terms of capital had a perceiver banks here I think there's unfair playing field in moment and some of the smaller regional players that struggled to raise funds in the matter of bit mages so I hope they do but you brought that it wasn't a big issue coming out so this stage none of your the industry having to your president of Edmond L Elena so you haven't been able to talk to the government about their interest in doing any of that or always the government limit more distracted by them that isn't it distracted the word you're also going to make sure you speak to one person before they get replaced but I think the issue for us is at the moment is that we we actually did respond to David Morrison horan again disagreed with his recommendation that there was enough competition we haven't heard back of course and we are trying to get a me as your so that's easier said than done but maybe you give me a question for friday i am interviewing david on friday popular maybe a question to put it on the spot okay so this one goes to Stephen and Joe regulated Peter be concerned by the continued growth investor lending without pressing that they may look to impose speed limits on lenders for investment like year-on-year growth rates do you believe the scrutiny or scrutiny of their portfolio is Walter than why I look it's probably prudent for the authorities to check and make sure it's a naught of it I don't think there's any real issues of the moments in terms of investment market it's traveling quite well it sort of slow down prior to Christmas picked up a bit of this last rate reduction yields are softening I think are on a very much place a fierce or the guy i don't like governments interfering into markets and whenever they interfere is you know they try to address one problem another problem surfaces so my view is the market will address itself and investors they'll pull back a little bit another rate reduction similar sort of a cause more confidence but i think the market has a wonderful way of balance sailfin out as it normally does it's appropriately authorities check and make sure that banks are not rushing to this area and I think that's good and it's prudent but I think a lot of jawboning rather than real action of this statement they did do this in New Zealand and had sort of dire consequences or a certain degree so I think at the moment it's watch but not really hopefully like too far so do you think there's anything to worry about giving loans to admit I think it's alert but not alarmed you know that set a Joe sent Joe sentiment and as we know the property of our markets are absolutely secretive as well I think what they were doing to watch though is affordability for first-time buyers in particular and that is a bit concerning you know as a parent is all better kids are younger as they come through you imagine how affording x.x dollars to buy a house is going to be almost out of reach so no I but you will help them it will cost for you to get them into us and so I'm being told yeah that's what's all happening there is that it is all in I deities are more the clutches go into you yeah I think that's it that's a shift that we you know we probably have a lot of heads around enough yet nor have we you know the focus on rent versus homeownership homeownership in Australia is absolutely the dream yeah for many it's going to be out of rich so reality of long-term renting is it's a likely future and I guess we need to get it head around that come on it's two point I wanna raise their I think prior panel discussion it was raised that really the issue around increasing pricing in the moments especially in city as a supply issue it's really not an investment and I think if you had more supply than the affordability would would improve in the second component which was presented to the government through the housing affordability summit which DMF timeline was part of with the HIA and the NBA and what they raised was actually the real issue is actually taxation on the average new purchase of construction of a home fifty percent of that is in taxes and indirect so if you want to look at infallibility look at taxes it used to be three percent sir up to fifty fifty percent yeah and I presented that in your government now that they've had that report since July you know where we were all presented at keeton camera we still waited for recommendations to come out of that housing affordability does that secure review I think but we're obviously a lot alert to that point earlier one of the things we announced late last year was a review into interest only loans the the thing we're a little bit concerned about is the the proportion of owner-occupiers getting interest only loans it hit forty three percent in the September quarter last year which was a record heart worry worry about it well I you know I think there are obvious reasons for an investor might want to interest on a loan but it's not entirely clear wire unoccupied one an interesting line wouldn't they do it because they want cash flow and they they're gonna wipe the capital gain they might soon as we do the rational right yeah there might but we're checking you know I think our concern is that up or always being put into these loans because there's an affordability issue and that's what we want we want to make sure that's not the case guys any contribution to this look I need a lot got an inter standing in line and my home purchase and I use it as an offset so I have money coming in and out and in that suits me and that's why I manage my affairs and I'm not suggesting that's what everybody esic inquiry yeah I've got a few of them actually say we hope is that okay yeah okay guys is there anything else you'd like to say before we want an issue that you think the religion regulation that the brokers should be mindful but I just like from an inevitable I perspective that acik and the industry's continued at all and educate each other on their concerns and let us address it as an industry rather than through regulation laser Jim please thank the panel for I

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