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hi everyone welcome to our webinar today the topic for today's webinar is New York's energy storage roadmap and other initiatives this webinar is being presented by the energy storage technology advancement partnership also known as s tap s tap is a collaboration of the US Department of Energy Sandia National Laboratories and the clean energy States Alliance also known as sisa and our host for today's webinar is Val story that was a project director here at sisa we have a number of excellent panelists also on the line with us but before I pass it over to them I'd like to go over a few quick housekeeping notes all of our attendees for this webinar are in listen-only mode you have a couple of options to join the audio portion of the webinar you can connect using a telephone or via your computer's mic and speakers if you'd like to minimize the webinar console so that you can view the presentation full screen you can do that by clicking on the little orange arrow that you see circled here you can also use that arrow to expand the webinar console and on the webinar console one thing that we would love for you to do is to submit your questions and your comments throughout the webinar you can do that by typing them into the question box that you see circled here and hitting send we will be reading through your questions as they come in throughout the webinar and will save about 15 minutes at the end of our presentations for a Q&A with the audience we do have a lot of people registered for this webinar and we do expect to get a lot of questions so to make sure that we get to your question type it in when you think of it don't wait until the very end a final note this webinar is being recorded we will send you a copy of the webinar recording via email within about 24 to 48 hours hopefully this afternoon and we'll also be posting the webinar materials on our website at CC org backslash webinars and that's a good web address to know because that is also where we list information about our upcoming webinars as well as offer all of our archives so with that I would like to pass it over to our host for today's webinar Val story as I said val is a project director here at the clean energy state science hi everyone thanks for the introduction Sam and thanks to all of you for joining us I'm going to try to keep my introductory introductory remarks as short as possible so we can move on to the great content that the panelists have prepared for you so just a brief introduction to the clean energy States alliance otherwise known as CICA CICA is a nonprofit organization were based in Montpelier Vermont and we work with our member organizations which are mainly state clean energy offices and affiliated public agencies from across the u.s. we work with them to advance clean energy markets through policy support information exchange and analysis and partnership development and on your screen you can see our current members so this webinar is part of CSIS s tap project the energy storage technology advancement partnership the energy storage technology advancement partnership is managed by sisa and conducted in partnership with Sandia National Laboratory and funded by the US Department of Energy through s tap we work with our members and other stakeholders to accelerate energy storage deployment we provide technical assistance for energy storage demonstration projects and you can see some examples of those projects on the map on the right and we also help to support States and their energy storage policies so today we have four panelists four presenters first we will hear from dr. Emory's rook and he's going to give us some background on New York's first foray into energy storage and then we'll hear from NYSERDA and depite the DPS team on the rollout of New York's energy storage roadmap and associated energy storage policies and actions that are supporting the deployment of New York's 3,000 megawatts by 2030 storage we'll also hear about New York's market acceleration activities and their efforts in soft cost reductions and their technical assistance program I'm going to introduce each panelist before his presentation so first I'd like to introduce dr. emre rook he is a directory a director excuse me of energy storage research at the office of electricity at the US Department of Energy where for the last two decades he has directed the electrical energy storage Research Program developing a wide portfolio of storage technologies for a broad spectrum of applications he has supervised the 185 million era stimulus funding for grid scale energy storage demonstrations and he's now partnering with States on numerous storage projects for grid resilience his work has led to 11 research and development 100 awards to EPA green chemistry Challenge Awards and a Lifetime Achievement Award he is an internationally recognized he's internationally recognized as a leader in the energy storage field dr. Chuck thank you for joining us hello there as you've heard I'm with the department energy and I'm involved in energy storage and since we are talking about NYSERDA today I would like to provide a little bit of historical background in fact I will take you all the way back to September 2003 at that time Joe sare was program manager at NYSERDA and since I had served as reviewer on a number of projects for NYSERDA I invited Joe Sayer back to our own program review in the ECF meeting in California and over-drink we agreed to do a joint solicitation well by March 2004 NYSERDA and Dewey signed a joint MoU with the intent of a joint energy storage initiative simultaneously we also signed one with the California Energy Commission and then by June NYSERDA issued a 3.5 million dollar Pio n number 846 as a joint solicitation with the Department of Energy and that was the beginning of the involvement a serious involvement of NYSERDA in energy storage the first project we did turned out to be quite important in fact we did the project simultaneously with NYSERDA and with the California Energy Commission it had to do with a using energy storage for grid frequency regulation first time this had been done we tested the hundred kilowatt unit using flywheels and the experiment both with NYSERDA and with the California Energy Commission turned out to be a great success and it went on to a larger demonstration of 20 megawatts as a facility and eventually by 2011 FERC order 755 mandated pay-for-performance and from then on frequency regulation using energy storage became a commercially viable business in FERC compliant regions this was really the first time that energy storage had a commercial viable bankable project in this field well from then on NYSERDA and California went on to become leaders among the states in energy storage and they have done terrific work in advancing the energy storage well it turns out that the in the present day we also again supporting a project together and that has to do with regenerative braking on Bourbon rail basically and nowadays the energy of a breaking subway train isn't stored it simply burned off as heat instead we have a project to introduce storage again in the form of flywheels but of course much bigger flywheels that can 1 megawatt at 90 seconds and we do e and NYSERDA each have about 2.5 million dollars in the game and if this turns out to be it is turns out to work it's going to be a really tremendous thing because it will it will become a ten billion dollar market it will cut the cost of running metro trains fantastically and save a lot of carbon dioxide so NYSERDA will no doubt do more and tremendous projects but I wonder whether there is a future collaboration with Deeley that can occur thank you and thank you thanks for the historic context and for bringing us from the past to the future I just wanted to remind listeners to go ahead and type any questions as they come up for you in that question dialog box on your console it should be on the right side of your screen all right so moving on I'd like to introduce Marco padula who is the director of office of markets and innovation at the New York State Department of Public Service his responsibilities include leading the implementation of the New York public service Commission's energy storage goal and deployment policies he also leads the development and implementation of New York's reforming the energy vision otherwise known as Rev Revis policies and programs he's also response all for the planning and oversight of the new of New York State's clean energy initiatives marco welcome and thanks for joining us Thank You Val and thank you to everybody good afternoon and thank you for participating in the webinar today I'm going to talk about New York's energy storage roadmap how we got to where we're at today and where we're at in terms of implementation I'll be followed by my colleagues from NYSERDA who will get into more details on specific bridge incentive mechanisms that are currently in place let me just move this slide I'm going to touch very briefly on New York's climate leadership and community protection act I'll get into details of the New York energy storage roadmap in deployment policies and Jason and Schuyler will follow with details about the market acceleration incentives and soft cost reduction and technical assistance programs New York State climate leadership and community protection act as many of you I'm sure have heard of I was signed by the governor back in mid-july it has very aggressive renewable targets I'll make note of a couple of them the 70% renewable electricity by 2030 100% zero mission electricity by 2040 and if you look at the bullets below that those are really the the programs that are going to get us to reach those goals but with the focus on storage just wanted to set the stage with this slide saying that storage will really be a significant role in achieving those targets and I'll walk you through to through the storage roadmap in the next couple slides where did we start well we started back in the beginning of 2018 when our governor announced goal by 2025 of 1500 megawatts that really triggered myself and Jason and Skylar to Co work co-lead the development of the energy storage roadmap for New York State it was really supported by an energy storage study that looked at how much storage do we think is viable over the next 2025 to 2030 timeframe the storage roadmap was released and made public in mid 2018 that that was followed by significant stakeholder outreach and engagement and formal written comments and all of that was taken into account and presented to the Commission for Commission decision back in December of 2018 following that there were implementation plans filed by the utilities and NYSERDA to carry out many of the initiatives which we will describe in the subsequent slides and we're really currently in the implementation phase the early implementation phase today as we speak the roadmap itself looked took a comprehensive look at the primary use cases of storage by market segments and those market segments that were defined are listed here they include customer cited use of storage distribution sited use of storage and bulk system use of storage and you can see the various ways in each of those market segments that storage can be used to benefit either the customer or the distribution system or provide a service to the bulk system so big picture the order that was put out by the Commission in December adopted the goals of 1500 megawatts of storage by 2025 and 3,000 megawatts of storage by 2030 these are incremental numbers incremental to anything that existed today and the order really did this by addressing barriers those barriers are things such as rules and tariffs utility business models I'll get into some of those in subsequent slides and also by identifying the need to accelerate the energy storage market learning curve drive down storage costs through the use of what we're calling a market acceleration bridge incentive we'll get into more details on that as we move on but one thing I do want to point out is that all of these measures are intended to enable a self-sustaining market and that's really critical to reaching the levels of storage that we have in our goals and objectives at this point I'll walk through the major policy and program initiatives that are required by the order starting with retail rate actions and the these really have to do with requiring utilities to implement new optional rate designs that better reflect the cost causation of the delivery system in particular the standby buyback and charging cost issues they were addressed by a recent Commission order back in May that requires utilities to make tariff filings of more granular standby rates and those filings will be coming in at September the idea is once those those tariffs are offered customers should be able to use storage to respond to those more granular price signals providing benefit to both the customer and the system as a whole second on this slide has to do with value stack changes and let me just spend a moment on the term value stack and value of distributed energy resources this is the concept in New York that we use to value injections of distributed resources it's really our transition from net metering where we've adopted a tariff based approach to value every injection from a distributed resource and specifically identify the energy value capacity value environmental value distribution value and provide those in the form of credits to either a community DG program or project or a remote net metering project or any other distributed energy resource that would like to inject and receive those values the storage order identified the need to make some of those components of the value stack more bankable specifically the distribution value and the ICAP value and those have since been modified to do that and we believe that that those changes have been very receptive to the market and produce positive results third on this list is dynamic load management this is really the statewide demand response programs that are run by the utilities and the recommendation here is to implement longer-term three to five year contracts under those programs instead of having a year to year approach where the price can change this gives a little more certainty to the utility and the demand response provider with the idea of being able to better utilize or have more confidence in making a storage investment to participate in the program like that another major policy initiative is direct procurement this was a major policy initiative in the order in the storage order it directs utilities those New York State utilities to expand on their non wires alternative approaches to seek opportunities that would include reducing ICAP through load reductions and provide value to all of their utility ratepayers in addition to that utilities must procure what we're calling bulk dispatch rights for storage and my next slide actually gets into more details on that and so I'll save the details on that it's a pretty important piece of the storage order and you'll hear more about that in just a second additionally NYSERDA will continue to look at how the renewable energy credit procurements can be modified to give flexibility or additional points to those projects that pair the renewable generation with storage both enabling more renewable generation and a more effective use of of that program so the utility bulk dispatch rights the commission order storage order requires each utility in New York State to procure a minimum amount of storage that would be operational by December 31st 2022 with specific minimum targets of 300 megawatts for con Edison and 10 megawatts in each of the other utilities it's expected that these are for hour duration systems and that if the results of the RFPs come in and demonstrate that it's it looks like more megawatts could be procured it doesn't preclude that and in terms of schedule con Edison and own are are really at the the their schedule is a little bit different than the other utilities they are a little bit faster so their RFP has been issued it's on the street and the remaining utilities will be issuing their final RFPs in the fall but there's a link here that you can go to to a tually see more details of that RFP and all the requirements associated with it the next major requirement out of the order is the clean peak requirements we recognize that there's tremendous opportunity for storage to offset peaking unit operation and the Commission required the staff of the department and the ISO and NYSERDA and DC and Lipa to get together to really look at what is the potential for storage to either replace or partially replace the use of the peaking units that exist in New York City and Long Island that essentially have NOx emissions that will be subject to more stringent requirements that currently are draft but will be coming down the road very soon that report has actually been completed and is posted on the Department's website and the link is also provided here in the presentation following the actual issuance of the DC NOx regulations the PSC is expected to institute a proceeding where the utilities that are impacted by that specifically con Edison and Long Island Power Authority would be required to develop what is called a peaking unit contingency plan to really look at what is the impact of not having those peaking units in service if in fact they can't abide by the regulations and various other scenarios to give us a good picture - how storage could be a replacement or a hybrid solution to eliminating or reducing the NOx emissions from those peaking units there are also other actions that address clean peak in the order the one being differentiating the environmental value in the value stack currently that environmental value is the same for every hour of clean energy injection but the storage roadmap recognize that there could be benefits to differentiating that value between peak and off-peak or maybe even more granular than that to arrive at a higher value an environmental value at certain times of the day versus other times of the day and the there is still outstanding staff a staff white paper that will make proposals related to a more granular a value wholesale market recommendations were another major topic addressed in the Commission's order really to reaffirm that the Department of Public Service and NYSERDA will and shall continue to be active participants in the ISO working groups and we urghhh all those that are in New York and have storage interest to do the same there's a tremendous amount of work going on there related to rules and regulations related to storage we specifically in that order urged the ISO to exempt energy storage from the buyer side mitigation rules and if some of you do know already or we want to note that the Department of Public Service along with NYSERDA did recently file a complaint to FERC to do just that to get storage exempted from the buyer side mitigation that that filing was made back on July 29th and is going through the process at FERC to have them act upon that the order also established principles for dispatch priorities really related to dual participation one of the things that the roadmap identified was that storage was unique in that it could provide multiple services to really maximize the the use of the storage and maximize the benefit provided to the system so we want to really ensure that a storage project can provide distribution benefits to the distribution utility or at the same time or at the same time provide services to the wholesale market and get paid accordingly for all of those services that it provides I would note there is also the requirement to convene what is called a market design and integration working group that's driven by the Department of Public Service and NYSERDA it's really looking at what is the necessary planning coordination and control and dispatch of any type of DR to enable dual participation again at the distributed system platform level and at the wholesale level that's an ongoing working group it's anticipated to continue well into 2020 and would encourage all of you to follow what's going on there there's some really good information being developed that will then be presented to the Commission and the Commission will act upon that and instruct utilities how to move forward in more specific development of the distributed system platform that we envision under the Rev scenarios proceeding data requirements in the order it was recognized that data is extremely valuable especially if it can provide a certain type of information and one of the things that was envisioned was that if you take customer data and asset data and system data and we're able to issue queries on that data could it provide valuable information for storage developers or actually other type of DR developers as well that's a pilot that is currently in the works it's moving along on schedule and on time and by the end of this year we are expected to have results from that pilot to really let's see if see if that that that approach would provide valuable information lastly there's some a good point a good amount of accountability in the storage order specifically with an annual state of storage report and then a try annual review the point that I do want to make here is that the annual report is expected to provide not only information on what what has been the amount of that we've got installed in the last year but what are the impediments or what hasn't worked well what could be changed moving forward so that we can make those changes and continue moving along our path to achieving the storage goal and with that I'll now pass it back to Marco great just a reminder to folks to keep typing in your questions to 15 minutes of the hour next I'd like to introduce Jason Dolan who is the assistant director of the distributed distributed energy resources team at NYSERDA this includes energy storage and also distributed solar and on-site power like fuel cells and combined heat and power Jason thanks great thank you I'm going to move a little quickly through these slides just so that we have plenty of time for questions I'll point out some of these are included for additional information and with links for those that are really interested and if you took one thing away from Marcos presentation it was how comprehensive the storage order really was it was not a piecemeal order and so also I think what's very obvious to many people is some of those actions happened immediately some of them happen in the near term some of them are a little bit longer term in nature so one of the things importantly that the Commission recognized is we don't want to wait to get everything right which is why it becomes so important to talk about the acceleration incentives that are now available I will also just point out Skyler and I will not be talking about any of the work that the R&D side of NYSERDA what's now called innovation and business development covers so just know that storage product development in field testing and demonstrations for Smart Grid applications buildings transportation and technology deployment that is all still well underway and funds are awarded through positive solicitations you're going to hear about different side of NYSERDA today so in total the amount of acceleration incentives that we have is just about four hundred million dollars I'll highlight a few things here the first is that Long Island's a bit different in terms of how funds are made available because they're not rate payer collected funds so if you look at the first two bullets on that page the way we filed our implementation plan was we know that our best expectations for how the futures are going to evolve are going to be wrong so we allocated at this point in time almost an equal amount of money between what we'll call retail incentives and then bulk incentives and we still have unallocated funds and what we have publicly said is we will allocate those funds to the use cases where we see the greatest potential for enabling sustainability outside of incentives the other point that I'll quickly make here is the analytical work that helped lead to the targets the exciting piece of that we these are not viewed as being maximum amounts of storage that could be deployed it's a huge amount of storage that's coming online in addition to the existing 1,400 megawatts of Pumped hydro storage that we have there's almost a hundred megawatts of advanced storage that's online so we still have quite a ways to go through 2025 but as you'll hear the pipelines are enormous the other thing worth pointing out though is the study that looked at how much storage was beneficial as we reach the year 2030 was based on a world that had 50% renewable penetration for electric generation and that world's now 70% leading to 100% carbon-free electricity ten years later in 2040 so we would suggest that the energy storage market is definitely bookended between New York and California as being the most - the two most significant markets in the country so I'm going to quickly walk through the outside of the house and then Skyler will talk about the bulk side in our parlance retail essentially means any project that would be subject to the public service Commission's standard interconnection requirements so that's projects up to five megawatts of of AC it could be located with customer load it could be in front of customers load connected directly into the distribution system in particular we really looked at what had been done elsewhere especially our friends in California and not overly complicate project requirements in a way that would harm the economics so on the bottom bullet you'll see what is required if this is a customer cited solution which most often means they're either participating in demand response they enroll in a more granular delivery rate or it's compensated under the value stack tariff that Marco mentioned for export the other point really that we've seen coming to fruition in the last six months is I would suggest that value stack tariff is the most comprehensive and inclusive tariff anywhere in the country it is the only one I'm aware of that actually allows the very valuable capacity benefit particularly in downstate New York to be included within a distribution tariff so as we continue to get dual market participation rules implemented this is a way to allow a developer and a customer to be paid for that very large value in the wholesale markets without actually interacting with the wholesale market this is done as a dollar per kilowatt hour incentives there's three regions essentially in New York City Long Island the rest of state they each have their own set of blocks the types of use cases that we're expecting to see in those looks a bit different we pay a hundred percent of the incentive once the project reaches commercial operation and we are planning to do a Quality Assurance inspection on a hundred percent of installations until there is a track record from the developers any project up to 15 megawatt hours that is up to 5 kilowatts is eligible in this program and the incentive is paid directly through a participating contractor and that directly reduces the cost or the least costs to the customer so if you were to click on this dashboard you'll actually see public transparency of where we are in these different blocks I included the rest of State block just as an example we're in block 3 in New York City and con Edison we're still in block 2 block 2 I'm going to keep moving just for the sake of time and on this slide for those that actually have project applications the most important thing to recognize here is the third bullet so the interconnection applications submitted to the utility the caesars been completed and 25 percent down payment has been made and then finally for the technical requirements this is for commercial products so we require a 10 year warranty that's determined between the customer end user and the manufacturer we do require the UL applicable listings that you see but we don't require those be in place until the project is being commissioned so we recognize there's a lot of developers that are still going through that and then finally the third bullet talks about the minimum round trip efficiency that we require that's based on a single charge discharge cycle and it's using the protocols that pnnl in Sandia had established and I look forward to taking questions and turning this back so that Skylar can talk us through the bulk program great thank you Jason and moving on to Skyler Skyler Madson is a project manager and nyserda's Department of distributed energy resources he manages nyserda's bulk energy storage program he works on emerging issues in energy storage energy markets and regulation system planning distributed energy resources and climate change Skyler thanks for joining us thank you so I'm just going to go pretty quickly because we will be available for Q&A and also all the stuff is online through our energy storage website at NYSERDA and you can always email I think at the end of this presentation there's a link to a email address that you can email that Jason and I both look at and you can just ask us any questions through that email address too so I'll try to go quick to stay under time so the two paths to relieve receive some of the 150 million dollars under the bulk storage incentives first is through the NYSERDA standard offer which is a declining block incentive and the second opportunity is through the utility bulk dispatch race contracts I'm going to focus the next few slides just on number one because Marko is already kind of covered number two and the utilities have their own information there so under number one we're looking at a declining block incentive for projects over five megawatts and this is to basically build the market at the wholesale level for large scale deployments and funding them based on their benefits to the system like renewable integration emissions reductions and resiliency benefits we also have another way where stores can participate in NYSERDA programs and at the state level and through our rec procurements by pairing with a large-scale renewable program but I'll leave that to another time you can look at our large-scale renewable program for the for those requirements so the incentive structure for the large-scale bulk current energy storage incentive program is just like the retail program it's offered based on a fixed amount of usable kilowatt hours of the installed capacity of the storage so projects that plan on providing insulator services or energy arbitrage only and that means no no capacity value to that resource the influencers projects will only receive 75% of the state incentive rate and that's because we see a lot of value to ratepayers before providing that additional reliability benefit as well there's no maximum project size that will incentivize but the total nicer net incentive will be capped at 25 million dollars for project and once a project is filled out a completed application they lock in their incentive rate that's available at the time and projects 20 megawatts and less have 18 months to achieve commercial operation and projects over 20 megawatts have 24 months to achieve operation after the completion of their class year study which is their interconnection studies through the New York ISL news the incentive structure this is also on our website these represent the incentive rate that you would lock in if you applied according to the either time frame for the smaller projects or the classier specific information you know add for the larger projects so like I said these are four projects over five megawatts these are the larger projects operating primarily for the wholesale system once again we're looking to fund commercially available systems not necessarily demonstration projects we have separate programs that could potentially look at that we have a pretty high project maturity threshold which is stage 9 of the nice owner connection queue which essentially means the system impact study has been completed and they're about to enter the final phase of the the nice old classier process the payment terms we plan on paying the payments out over four over four separate payments the first payment will be of 25 percent right at commercial operation once we've done our Quality Assurance inspection and then payments 2 3 & 4 will happen on each of the one-year anniversary's of the project for years 1 2 & 3 if the system's move to a different location in New York State that's not eligible for the incentive sorts relocated NYSERDA nicer to my secret return of the incentive funding based on the prorated share of the time that it was in an eligible location so there's a lot more information on our website I can answer any other questions maybe later on or after once you send emails to NYSERDA programs but I'm going to think stop there great and I think it's back to you Jason for a few closings lives it is so as Skyler mentioned we covered a lot very fast just know if you'll see contact at the end on our website there's a one-hour in-depth on the retail set of incentives and there's the same on the bulk incentives and there's also contact information for any additional questions so really quickly I just want to mention that New York State also is very fortunate to have the largest green Bank in the country which is a division of NYSERDA and that's a billion dollars of capital they have to invest the important thing to know there is they're a much more deliberate patient investor than may be possible with just private capital a lot of times these projects are are the first that it's been done it's a new revenue stream its stacking different revenue streams together and while their job is not to take on market risk that a developer should be taking on they will put the effort into the due diligence and do that for a much smaller project in a non portfolio based project when there's the opportunity for this to become a scaled market so that's a really important resource that's that's available here in New York when we think about where we can impact reducing costs these components are the ones that are most significant we're in New York 25% on some projects of the install cost is these four items across the top of the page plus interconnection I'm going to highlight just a couple of areas here one is for vendor assistance we do have resources to help understand tariffs different market design a calculator for the value stack compensation to understand what the project economics could look like for quality assurance on the very bottom right we have a link to our de our system that was every operational energy storage system in New York and the use case behind it for customers we have the ability to fund a technical and economic feasibility study to look at whether energy storage and other de our solutions can be effective for them and look at the economics and we can fund up to seventy-five percent of that cost for for projects that look at storage and then finally we are doing a lot of work with local governments to really help them understand how to appropriately consider energy storage and avoid going the route of the fear factor of something that was seen on YouTube the night before we've been doing this in New York City for over three years we have expanded this to statewide the guidebook that we have is based on the 2021 international fire code any system that we fund must abide by those requirements the Department of State of New York is also in the process of adopting the 2021 battery portion of the fire code as an emergency rulemaking and the last point I'll highlight here is this is really to ensure that the industry accelerates as quickly as possible but we avoid in every way possible the type of issue that was experienced in Arizona where a lack of monitoring gas sensing deflagration venting and so on resulted in in harm to first responders this is really all around trying to put preventative measures in place to make sure nothing could ever get to that point and then provide training to first responders as well on how to address a in this case battery storage fire safely and with that we are happy to turn it back and take any questions great thanks to all of you for such thorough and informative presentations we've got loads of questions so let's dive right in let me start with the first one for Emre why were five wheels considered for the metro train project where other technologies considered you maybe on mute no I'm not anymore this is simply an exploration flywheels can respond faster than most batteries can as was the case with the original project the storage project that introduced frequency regulation it may turn out that some batteries can do the same job yes just quickly say I'm glad the question came up because I think we fell into the trap we are technology agnostic so any type of battery system mechanical system thermal systems are eligible we have a separate fuel cell program in New York that incentivizes fuel cells so that's not included in what we're talking about but batteries ice storage chilled water heat storage flywheels are all in Guyler do you want to quickly touch on the analytical work sure so a lot of these target numbers came directly out of the energy storage study which was a optimization study looking at a 50% renewable system in New York State and what was the optimal build-out not just of storage but of full capacity expansion in New York State what is the least cost system in New York State and out of that system drop you know 3,000 megawatts of storage in 2030 so this was not a random number and it also wasn't a maximized storage number it was a number based on actual the most benefits to New York State are intended for the demonstration bulk storage projects you talked about could you say that one more time what pasture yeah existing projects well for demonstration projects we have a research and development program we have Scott Egbert on our NYSERDA team can answer questions about that but our our first initial projects that are coming into the bulk storage program are just kicking off now we have lots of interest in New York State there's a large interconnection queue and then I so and so I have't answer any other questions about the deployment as well Skylar is probably worth just adding so there's actually five gigawatts of storage in the nice oq right now that's a whole range of project maturity in some speculative projects but can you talk about the types of use cases that we're seeing in the applications coming into the class here that's probably getting to the heart of the question for sure so a lot of the use cases that we're seeing are these slightly longer duration storage assets where they're for our resources want to locate downstate because there's high value for congestion high value for capacity value downstate so as we see a lot of value there in longer duration storage there's also certain projects that are looking to do shorter duration to our one hour or less to do a frequency regulation and other ancillary services so there's there's a lot of use cases in those projects that we see in the nice OQ but overall like Jason said there's a huge interest in New York State at the retail and bulk level and the bulk is over 5,000 megawatts of storage proposed so far and I'll just quickly add on the retail side as we contract all of the developers in the projects are made public in the rest of state where we're in that third block right now that the blocks one and two were taken up with 25 large community solar projects so these are two to five megawatt PV projects that we're adding energy storage so that they could time shift and maximize the distribution benefit and the capacity benefit under that value stack tariff and we're starting to see that for standalone storage projects as well great thank you clarifying question I believe you mentioned that 20 million energy storage does that then lead to 30 million is set aside for bulk storage we're still working with Lipa Long Island Power Authority to identify the way that bulk will will be accelerated on the island and it could go that route or it could go through working with the utility through something akin to the dispatch rights of contracts so 15 million of the 55 million is currently on the streets but what we've said is as we start getting through blocks we will continue to explore additional blocks with enough notice to developers based on where we're seeing movement in a path towards just a sustainable market great thank you Jason this question is for you are there any incentives set aside for the the public sector for example for municipalities for a lead by example program for example or do they just compete in your general incentive program there are not incentives set aside for that specific use case the New York Power Authority does a lot of work specifically focused on the municipal sector you'll also see in the near future there's a very large low and moderate-income and environmental justice focus that's going to be continuing to expand so there will be specific set asides that are related to deployments in in those use cases which start to include things like facilities of refuge thank you are there any penalties penalties for non-compliance no there are not how is anonymous data to be collected in the pilot program so the pilot program would take customer use it usage data and assign a random number to the you know to the data file for example without any information on the customers public or private information PII and all of that customer data would go into this platform and queries could be run on it when the query is run and identifies say 10 customers that look like they are interesting to a dr developer then the request would go to the utility the utility would get the customer sign-off to provide the actual information to the d our developer so all the customer information would remain anonymized on the platform and it's only after the dr developer asks the utility the utility would then ask the customer for the right to actually share the cost of the customer information further explained fireside comments you have submitted Oh Marco that's got to be you you have the quarter today I can just do a high-level but maybe Skyler wants to help a little bit as well but my my simple interpretation is guilty until proven innocent that's the way that's the way we see the buyer side and mitigation tests but you know it's really intended to try to eliminate where there is you know a large amount of what we would call market power by a buyer to influence the market price at the wholesale level and I think the the nature of the comments is really you know there's no intent whatsoever in any of these storage projects by the developer or the state to reduce market prices and you know there's a whole bunch of reasons there's affidavits filed in those comments that really dig into more specific details on on the request I would suggest reading it but also if Skyler or Jason want to add anything to that that could be helpful during during this response I could just add that the biocide mitigation tests are basically a test to see if any project is economical on its own when you compare the nice OHS modeled view of what your energy and ancillary services revenue would be compared against the nice overview of what future capacity prices would be and they put those two things together and if they think your project would be economical then they'll let you participate in a capacity market if they don't then they keep you out of capacity market by giving you an offer floor that you can't bid under and be economical in the market the final thing I'll round that out with this is a lower Hudson Valley in New York City phenomenon in New York State but that's the locations that have the highest capacity prices as well I'd like to thank all the panelists again that was very informative I certainly enjoyed your presentations your I believe your contact info is will be included in the slide deck so folks can contact you with any follow-up questions and of course feel free to reach out to me with questions so thank you everyone for your attendance and for the great presentations have a great afternoon thank you yes