Digital Signature Legality for Disclosure Notice - Empowering Businesses with Secure eSign Solutions

How to eSign a document: digital signature legality for Disclosure Notice

hello and welcome to navigate electronic signatures transmission and storage an overview of Notice h20 20-0 for my name is Heather severs and I'm a trainer and consultant for Nima k & Associates and today we're going to be going over this new notice that had published in regards to multifamily and our ability to have electronic signatures and electronic storage of data so the purpose of this is really to provide guidance to those of us in the multifamily universe about how to accept electronic signatures how to have electronic transmission of data and then also electronic storage of data we have honestly in the industry been waiting for this for many years HUD has been talking about publishing this as early as about 2005 and so we're very excited to see the notice finally here and ready to go not that it leaves us without any questions but it does bring some clarity to some things that we've had questions about in the past and how to have said that they based it essentially off of this office of asset management in portfolio oversight or om PO so things this affects folks that are owners and management agents of multifamily projects and also affect service providers and HUD field office staff as well as contract administrators in their staff as well the notice came out on May 26 2020 and the notice that it was effective immediately so owners and agents are welcome to implement these new policies and procedures at any time much of this information was taken from this previous notice that was issued called use of electronic signatures in federal organization transactions this was published by the CIO officer in January of 2013 and so HUD even though they published this notice specifically to multifamily owners management agents industry partners they encourage you to read this additional notice when you're to implement your policies and procedures regarding electronic and data as you go through that process so let's talk about what it says and what it says we can do and what it says we can't do so the first thing that HUD is pretty clear about and it continues to sort of say this verbage all through the new notice is that it permits but does not require owners and agents of multifamily projects to use electronic signatures and to take advantage of electronic submission and storage of files and data for the multifamily program so even though it says you can it doesn't say you have to so that's sort of the first point that head wants to make and they continue to make that throughout the notice it also does a pretty good job of saying that if you do choose to use the electronic signatures or transmission or storage that many state and local municipalities have additional rules that potentially would affect this so even though there may be this broad sort of HUD multifamily notice you may have things in your area that would also come into play when you're considering making policy changes to the electronic transmission storage of data so make sure that if you're going to adopt these policies that you understand those rules as well owners and agents that our document notes must provide applicants and tenants the option to use what had called wet signatures and paper documents upon request so it cannot be more clear when I say this I want to say it again and I'll continue to say it sort of throughout this conversation this afternoon is that it says you must so all through this notice there's Mays there should there's strong recommendations and then there are must and as we know anybody who's worked in these HUD programs for any amount of time when HUD says you must you must so you cannot under any circumstances have a policy that says the only way you can apply at our property is through this electronic process or you cannot say the only way that you can submit your data is through email you have to absolutely must offer applicants and tenants the opportunity to complete physical paperwork if they request it so I know that that sort of puts a monkey wrench in some of our policies because we would like to streamline the process from the owner perspective it's much easier if we have one policy than having to make exceptions but have very clearly says we do so if the applicant or tenant does not want to complete an electronic process then you must allow them to do it on paper if they want that so just be clear about that I mean we'll continue to sort of talk about that how that really affects us moving forward but the very first thing I can think of is those electronic applications you must apply online so you cannot do that in multifamily you still have to accept paper applications if the resident requests it or they have and of course this notice does not change or alter the nature or use of the documents so they want to make sure even though we're going to accept electronic versions of some things the nature and use of the documents still stands so let's let's talk about what that actually means let's give an example so for example in multifamily the guidance says that owners can accept a tenant self certification if we cannot verify that information from any other acceptable method but the document may be submitted or signed in paper or transmitted to the owner or agent electronically so rather than have them sort of self certify in the sort of physical way we can now accept self certification electronically but still self certification is what is required so it sort of alters the way we can accept it but not the function of that self certification these are all the multifamily programs that it's applicable to and you can see it's pretty much all of them they even specifically say the rad programs when it's when you rat and pbr.a that is one of the programs that can now use this new notice all of these sort of 202 and 811 and 236 all of those programs that fall under that broader multifamily umbrella are now able to use this new guidance so very exciting for all of these programs it does sort of call out these programs specifically and say this notice does not apply to unassisted 221d for projects it does not apply to the home program and it does not apply to those PIH programs those HTV PDE or public housing so this is not a notice or PIH this is strictly a multi-family notice and it also does not apply to HUD under CPD they'll do their own notice if they feel it necessary they go further on to say that this applies to applicants it applies to current assisted tenant it applies to any of those industry partners that we work with in order to sort of execute these programs and it applies to things like asset management it applies to contract renewals any of those occupancy policies that we have to sort of move people in and conduct research efficacious move out processes terminations to some extent any sort of process that we have where we have either HUD required OMB forms or where the owner is required to create their own documents related to any of those functions types of forms and documents other than official HUD forms could include things like our contract renewal policies are things we send to our service providers our third-party verification that we send out to do verifications for recertification processes any of those HUD multifamily housing business purposes that may be necessary for us to continue to sort of obtain those processes so while not required by hud again some state and local laws or entities may require the use of what is called a wet signature right that actual physical signature that signed by an applicant tenant owner agent on some forms and generally speaking those potentially are things like leases or any lease addendums the actual certifications by zero zero five nine or five zero zero five nine a the HUD ninety eight seven that release of information some of those documents your state and local municipalities may require those if you ever have to go into court for eviction purposes or any other reason so HUD continues to say throughout this new notice and make sure you understand even though HUD says you can accept these documents electronically now you may have to continue in some states to have original signatures for those purposes in some states so it actually goes as far as to recommend that you get with your legal counsel and make sure that you obtain that information about what where you're operating to make sure that you keep those documents in those states if you're choosing to go fully paperless so the notice goes one furthers just sort of defined what they're talking about and do some sort of clarification about the differences between some of the terminology that HUD uses I don't want to be over the head with this but really it talks about the difference between digitized signatures and versus digital signatures so when we say digitized signatures were talking about maybe images of handwritten signatures scanning of documents that were signed that had wet signatures when we scan them to store them in our file storage system or images created by using potential like a digital pen that we sign on maybe a digital format anything that captures that signature sort of digitally right when we sign our name at the ATM that's sort of a digitized signature that we use with that pen um versus a digital signature which is talking about encryption of data it talks about the certification of authority to ensure the validity of the person signing lots of times those things include like a PIN number or something to give integrity and authenticity to the person that sort of acknowledging in a digital manner acceptance of whatever that might be so I know that seems like a lot of big words but we'll talk about what that really actually means to us in our real daily lives in just a second also there's something called an electronic signature which is really just a sound a symbol or process associated with a contract or record and executed by a person with the intent to sign the records so really it's just like by clicking this button I agree to the terms above those sorts of things that we have seen maybe in our personal lives those are called electronic signatures and those also potentially have pin numbers associated with them to sort of validate that I am Heather severs here is my identification and I agree or consent by clicking this box when HUD says wet signatures it's always such a strange term to me to say what signatures but really what Kutta means is those original signatures captured with a pen that has to have time to dry right so the ink when we sign something in ink that is considered what center also HUD will refer to it as an original signature in some cases regardless of if it's a wet signature and an electronic signature a signature is the means by which a person indicates as they agree to the terms in the documents and a lot of times those agreements have legal significance so these are binding leases and contracts that we're doing with our residents our applicants our industry partners and the intent is to sort of have that legally binding evidence that that all parties to the contracts have agreed so HUD goes into greater detail and the notice and we have done in this webcast because there's lots of information that potentially we need to know when we're creating our own internal policies but for purposes of us doing our business we now have all these different options beyond just like a physical wet signature that has that talks about so a lot of information about East signatures if we're going to accept those elon electronic signatures the notice sets forth a bunch of information about the format the intent to sign the association to the record it talks about the authenticity of the signer and the integrity so we're going to kind of talk about what each one of these items individually because the notice does as well and the first one we're going to go over is electronic form of signatures common common versions of this process lots of different things a typed name like at the end of an email a digital image of a handwritten signature those digital sort of signature pens that capture our signature sometimes they go as far as biometrics like a Cinco prance or scanning our retina all kinds of different East signatures exist in the world today that are potentially acceptable and and those sort of by by clicking this box I agree or I consent to the terms above as long as they have private pin numbers that are associated that can be traced back just to prove that actually has their seizures is the person that signed this document or clicked this box as far as intend to sign is concerned intent is determined by the circumstances that surround what the signature is so assuming that person was not being coerced any sort of examples of intent to sign right clicking the box by signing below click to agree all of those sort of terms that happen in the process of us consenting are all now on the table as acceptable versions of those signed documents I missed Association is concerned in order to be legally significant HUD says the signature must be attached to or locally associated with the record being sign so each sort of form or consent has to have their own signature or consent version so it has to be clear that the signer what they were signing what they were agreeing to and the signer has to have an opportunity to review that record to make sure they understand what's in it which you know really to us as owners and management agents of multifamily properties we want them to understand right we are setting forth especially when we're talking about move ins and recertifications it's important that our new household members or our new tenants or our existing tenants with new terms understand what those new terms are they need to know how the house rules work what the terms of the lease are things that will get them evicted things they are required to report all those really important things about running a subsidized property we go over anyway so all this notice is saying is that that needs to be clear in your electronic processes if you go this way and it has to be done in a way that allows someone to later determine that the record has been signed so I think this is the important place to sort of discuss what HUD is trying to get at in relation to your electronic signatures is that the reason we keep such detailed clean beautiful six part you know multifamily files with hundreds of pieces of paper is because we get audited we get management and occupancy reviews from either HUD or their contract administrator so what a fight is saying is that when we get there to do the MOR when those folks get there they need to be able to prove you need to be able to prove to them that that record has been signed so all of this to say right what we're doing in these tender files in general not only we're trying to protect the ten their rights and potentially our rights in court if we ever have to go there but also to prove to hide in the contract administrator and all of the terms and requirements and condition in the 43 15.3 have been met so all those forms and acknowledgments and documents that we have to go over and give to the residents still have to be able to be proven to be signed and dated by those parties required so however that happened it has to be permanently linked to that document that was associated with it and we know there's many documents that we have to do over and over annual to annual and sometimes even every single interim there's documents that have to be done so all of this to say is like we have to think in this broader sense about how HUDs going to come and conduct an mor and how are we going to prove that we've checked all the boxes listed on the 90 834 addendum a when they're looking at our individual files so and the purpose right we just kind of talked about this but the purpose is to prove if we ever have to go to court or to prove to HUD then we have provided it to who is required to have it provided to you and those folks have acknowledged and the burden of proof is going to be on us as the owner agent of the property right we're going to have to be able to have some sort system to prove that is the case so the laws do not require the use of any particular method to do this however you can do this and again I feel like this is why a HUD has encouraged and strongly encouraged in many cases us to consult legal counsel if we're choosing to go as electronic as possible because we have to have some way that's going to stand up in court and to HUD during the MOR but says that this person actually signed these records so four owners that are using these signatures we must ensure that documents signed electronically can't be altered after signature so this is another really sort of hurdle that we're gonna have to go over for going into this electronic storage space is that however those documents are originally created and when once those are signed there has to be some sort of mechanism that proves you can't go back in later and alter the document or form that once it's done it's done and there's no changing it and if we need to change something we have to sign a new form so that's another hurdle we have to think about as our processes move forward and if we like I said if we do make changes that has to track those changes be able to say a date in time that those were made who made them who agreed to them did the resident acknowledge them or the applicant acknowledged it to the owner agent all of those things have to be discussed because the digital signature is a way to ensure that an electronic document or record is authentic any computer system or application that uses a username and password or multi-factor authentication contains different digital signatures so it has to have a way that says this is the person that was doing this action or this function so you can track it back for accountability purposes so they want to make sure that those user name and passwords can be provided so you can say somebody altered this document or somebody did something who was it in in lieu of an actual wet signature yeah you created it and using the password so generally how we do that so having said all this I'm also pause here and say I think a lot of our industry-wide partners that are providing software are also sort of ingesting all of this new information and this new guidance from HUD I think a lot of our software providers have already done some things to take steps in this direction and I do you believe that there is going to be some new technologies that come out of this new notice to help with this sort of authentication and direction that we're going in because I think for them it's going to be super helpful as well so I don't think we're going to have to do all this for ourselves I guess it's kind of my point I think our software providers are going to do a lot of this work for us but it's nice to know that we especially in this new phase we were all going to kind of be beta testing those new software packages what the requirements of the notice are so that we can sort of make sure our software providers are doing what HUD is going to require us to do so as far as electronic transmission of documents the owners can electronically transmit how to prove our required documents Wednesday in local law permits it doesn't apply to documents required by lenders or other government agencies or maybe by the investors or private mortgage holders but they do say HUD in its contract administrator can also offer certain electronic transmission methods for documents like contract renewals and those sorts of things I know from my personal experience in States and HUD field offices that we have worked with but they are already doing a lot of sort of email back and forth particularly when it relates to contract renewals lots of sort of exchange of electronic information that already exists I do think it's a little it's something to think about when we're talking about HUD field offices and contract administrators individually this notice gives those individual agencies the opportunity to choose how they're going to do this so from a practical standpoint this is something if you're an owner or a property management company that has projects in multiple states with multiple field offices and multiple contract administrators now this kind of pulls that federal program apart because each HUD field office is going to get to make their own call each contract administrator is going to get make their own call so now we're going to kind of I feel like in some cases some agencies are going to be more sophisticated than others and and want to do more electronically than others so we need to be conscious of that for those folks who who do have projects in multiple states what each individual either HUD field officer contract administrator is going to require because the notice very clearly says we need to contact them both I've HUD field offices or the contract administrators to see which agency submission options are available what their preferences are how they want things individually done and this this can go even as far as I only do business in the city of Boise right so I'm a potential sa I'm a public housing authority in the city of Boise but I have a rad property and I have a traditional pbra property right so I have two properties one is overseen by the HUD field office and one is overseen by the contract administrator they're both pbra properties potentially right next to each other and I could have different submission requirements for these two different properties even in the same city even right next to each other so that's just something to think about logistically too about how we go how we go and work with those agencies to make sure we're giving them what they want because really they're the most important people right they're the ones that are to this they're the ones that tell us whether we're doing a good job or not so we want to make sure that what they want we understand and sometimes that's going to be different I think in these cases it all all says they may electronically transmit some of those contract renewal documents any of those HUD forms of documents and they may they don't have to if they choose to then they have to take adequate security measures to make sure sensitive information cannot be corrected all of those things come into play for them just like they do for us when we're dealing with applicants and tenants in general so the next section of the notice talks about when applicants and tenants are submitting information to us as the owner agent of the property and it says if we choose to use this electronic communication applicants and tenants can also choose to communicate electronically with us as well which I don't I don't hate that right I think that's a great idea if we can email somebody and they can email us back versus I'm going to call them and schedule a time to come in and they bring Stephanie maybe have it and maybe don't it's much quicker more efficient if we can have information submitted electronically to us as well so I think this is a really positive step in the right direction they also say that we have they can complete documents online we have to give them that option to complete them by hand they can scan a man email them to us all of that stuff can happen now under the new terms of the regulation and so this is a really I feel like this is a big time saver for us more time to collect documents particularly in this post covent world where where we have had trouble communicating with tenants or folks are not in a health position where they can come into the office or even allow us in to speak to them because of the susceptibility to Kovan so I feel like this really really helps and I'm actually thinking that this is the kovat processes what pushed HUD to get this notice out at this time and so we appreciate that work from them because this actually changed some of the previous kovat guidance that multifamily had given us because it didn't have a notice out there that said we could take these things and now they do so thank you to HUD for getting it out at this time because we've been struggling a bit some of us have to sort of get those normal processes keep them it also says that we can designate specific methods that are acceptable versus not acceptable for electronic transmission so all of this means when we're setting policy we're going to need a new security policy electronic document transmission policy that talks about what's what we're going to accept what we're not going to accept how it's going to be accepted all those things that the new notice requires if we choose to do electronic transmission it again says in the notice that we must provide the applicants an opportunity to give us paper documents so again and again throughout the whole notice the word must is gone into that sentence when it talks about us having to provide them the opportunity to give us paper documents so make sure that they understand that and that we cannot have a policy that sets a hard line even if they have some met electronic data before and now they want to give us a paper copy if they do we have to take it you cannot draw a hard line with the tents and say only electronic submission so it's pretty clear about that then it goes further to talk about when owners are sending information back to applicants or tenants it says we may provide documents electronically when our state and local law allows this - if we choose to we sort of have to do that and have to inform the residents and applicants but it's gonna happen and that they have an option to receive it in paper form so that makes us think about because that's a must and makes us think about how our applications are worded how the language we may need to update things that say here's our process and then add a sentence that says if you would like to submit paper documents here's how that process works or here's who you need to contact or here's where you can locate those documents so that maybe some forms and policy updates as well if required forms and notices and brochures are transmitted electronically how to recomm and that the owner request an electronic acknowledgment of receipt so here's here's like our real life and how that's going to work think about how many brochures and documents we have to give to applicants either application or on the date of move and things like the VAWA information those to HUD forms that we have to get them the fraud is it worth it the resident rights and responsibilities brochure the eiv and you brochure sort of all of those things that we have to give and right now what we're getting back is a sort of signature of acknowledgment that says by initialling these boxes or checking these boxes I acknowledge that I have received the following documents right we're sort of getting that sign and dated and putting that in the file we now can send those documents electronically if we want and we will still have to have some sort of acknowledgement of receipt so how are we going to do that how are we going to go about accepting that where HUD doesn't require an acknowledgement you should still maintain records that you've provided that to them for some of those documents where HUD doesn't specifically say you have to acknowledge receipt but for all those other things where we are right now doing it how is that going to change that process moving forward if we do electronic submission of data so another sort of policy just assumed that it's gonna have to be made and then when we are stating local laws require specific documents be provided by first-class mail delivery in-person posting on the unit all of those things that are sort of legal documents and we still have to do that in those required methods and not solely be transmitted electronically so most of that is regarding to termination right so when we post three-day notices to pay or quit or whatever your state law it is more imposing 30-day notices police violation those things that require actual first-class mail some of those state and local laws as well as HUD 4350 regulations will require specific delivery methods in regard system notices so make sure that we understand what those notices are and how they have to be transmitted or or communicated to the president and sometimes the electronic process cannot under any circumstances or place that process as far as transmission methods when we're sending information out and HUD very clearly says we must use the National Institute of Standards and Technology compliant methods so we have to when we're putting the documents inside of an encrypted wrapper such as a password-protected PDF or zip file those things have to be done so that is a must not a should or a code so potentially we just have emails going back and forth that is no longer gonna be the case right it has to have these encryption standards in compliance with the NIS t guidance so that sometimes going to be a change sometimes not sometimes we're already doing that stuff so passwords should not be included in the same transmission of the documents of course and in best practices to provide the recipient with a password by calling texting or in a separate email or potentially in person when you accept their application you issue them a password at that time however you're going to do that so that they can have sort of encrypted data transmissions through email or however we're going to do that I'd also strongly recommend is using an encrypted transfer mechanism like a share link or an encrypted mail service or encrypted transfer tools and of course a IV we have had electronic storage and transmission guidance on our AIP documents since the inception of the IV since what 2010 I think is when we got the IDS being mandatory and so none of that really changed this is no change here all of this stuff has been in place since the inception and Eid it just says of course we have to have encrypted transmission of that data as well we can't just email yeahmy data back and forth willy-nilly all the cryptographic modules have to continue to happen the IPO reports as well other message for transmitting data have to be in compliance with HUD security requirements like review removable media such as thumb drives or SD cards and the direct access and those provided login information and other compliance technologies as they are developed so what is that personally identifiable information that PII well that's information that can be used to track that person's identity either alone or combined with other individuals in their household and some examples of that are like art dates of birth our email addresses our birth certificates driver's license those things that are tied to us individually if it's sort of our the way that we are practical person all of the documents that we are required to collect that contain that information also has to be encrypted or transmitted in a secure manner so any of those like her social security cards purser to get any sort of medical that says they're a disabled person or whatever the case may be has to have that same protection as our EAP documents have had in the past then I thought this is interesting because I guess we still do you know Wells Fargo still requires us to fax those verifications to them and they fax them back to us and we still are faxing information back and forth I had this to say about faxing we have to use the date stamp it has to verify who it's going to we have to confirm that they receive the fax and make sure that our fax machine doesn't contain storage memory so that it can reprint those documents we've sent out and that we need to have a secure line one possible as far as email or unsecured information and in our system we have to make sure that all attachments are also encrypted and that we don't place any of that personal information on shared drives with multiple accesses right it can't just be in this place where anybody in our company can look at that data it has to be protected in the only people that can - or other people that need it in order to do their jobs and we can't leave stuff on printers we or fax machines or scanners which we've had that guidance in the Eid security policy forever so this shouldn't be new here well not forever since 2010 what feels like ever since the inception of Eid and of course all of this falls under the Privacy Act of Privacy Act violations can have criminal charges associated with them so we want to make sure that we're protecting not data for our families so this one was the biggest for me I feel like this section about electronic storage really potentially has the biggest potential to be a game changer for us about how we do business just because you think about our file rooms the last command I work for had 80 properties in eight different states that entire giant room just filled with file cabinets and files so how we're going to electronically store files potentially is a big game changer for us they see the HUD forms and owner/agent created forms and documents can be electronically I'm sorry may be electronically stored when our state and local law permit so all that stuff that goes into that my tenant file we can either start fresh and everybody coming in we can do electronic files we can have a combination of both we can convert all of our existing files to electronic formats if we want so all these things that are things we're going to have to think about because HUD has never ever in the past allowed us to have electronic tenant files in multifamily we have always had to have paper copies and that's what gets audited during the management occupancy review process so this is a pretty big change well now they're allowing us to having electronic files and electronic data storage HUD again says you need to consult your legal counsel to determine what your state and local law requires as far as what signatures and of course if we're going to have electronic storage it must be encrypted using the NIS T compliant solutions hike goes further to say you know anybody in your company cannot just have access to everything that's not how electronic files work so for instance your maintenance guys can't be able to access tent certification data react inspectors can have access to tenant files those folks who need the information to do their jobs are the only people that can be allowed access to those tenant so when you're assigning access all of that stuff has to be thought through and my assumption is that the 9030 for that audit form that HUD and the contract administrators use to conduct management and occupancy reviews will be updated so that they are now having to check you're gonna have to provide them some sort of document or access point that shows who has access to want data so that they are double-checking this information is protected I just I cannot see any way where HUD would not require them to do that to ensure protection because they require on the eiv side already of course we have to comply with the same requirements with paper files they have to be secured they have to have some sort of system that access has to be restricted all of that stuff that applies to our physical files anyways and industry partners must comply with those rules surrounding aiv or other documents such as if somebody requests protection under Bawa you can't be kept in the same file as their other household information all those sort of special things that happen in particularly to those two sections of our job that are important for us to make sure that the access is further restricted under those two different requirements we can only use it for its intended purpose which we know this is our none of this guidance is knew what this portion of the notice is saying is that when you have paper files all of these things were applicable and they continue to be applicable to the electronic files what an interesting thing I think it does go far enough to say is that proprietary information will not be shared by another entity and it gives this example that a contract administrator is not allowed to share like an owner agents rent comparability study with another owner agent so things that owners have paid for for their own properties they cannot be shared with other owners because of proprietary information that was an interesting point of never heard how to make that point before and I think that's a great thing I think it's a very good thing then it talks about independent public auditors those folks that show up usually between January and April they come they do a big financial audit of our properties part of that audit process is that they're required to look at a percentage of our tenant files it does say that they can have access because that's part of the HUD audit process and that they're allowed to see it so they're considered an industry partner at that time which is fine because they have always given IPAs access to the eiv system so it's expected that they would they would continue to allow that access because they require it so as far as record retention and file destruction and most of this looks very similar to the guidance we have had for aiv so nothing should look super new here but now it sort of broadens to say this stuff is not only applicable to the eiv stuff but it's now we'll put them all to the tenant files document storage as well and it gives examples like encryption disclosure of data we have to have policies talks about passwords and access and how we're going to use our email messages how we're going to destroy data how we're going to log what data was destroyed all those sort of examples of things that we've been really required to cover in our AIG security policy now further goes on and we're going to have to have a new security policy in general that covers all of these sections as well also it says that we have to report any breach of electronic data to our HUD offices and should comply that process ulcers you comply with our state and local we have to have a tracking methods that should be designated to allow auditors when requested by federal or state agencies so auditors must be can I'm sorry audits must be conducted within the protections of the Privacy Act but this is the big thing right so when an auditor comes into their HUD or the contract administrator to do an mor how are they going to want to see the data how are we going to be able to provide it to them it has to be auditable and they they are not gonna dig around for stuff right so we have to make it still easily auditable for those people to make sure that we continue to be in compliance with the 4350 0.3 and all of those requirements under than 98 34 as far as retention is concerned it says that the owners should have a document or records retention policy so right now this is a should my recommendation to you is take a look at your Eid use and security policy and see if you can adapt that in some way to where you're going with this retention policy right now it should but I who knows the best me so I have to be compliant with our program specific requirement so the record retention terms for different documents are different I turn 10 t + 3 years versus five years for something so make sure that your retention policies are in line 4350 when we do destroy electronic data and we have to have a policy for understanding who is going to destroy it and it has to be truly destroyed industry partners must have policies and procedures in place to destroy records and data and must document when and how they work that those destruction methods were done so that is a must so at the very least you have to have a data destruction policy you probably already have a pretty good one with your Eid use and security policy that you can adapt to your tenant file so it's not as scary as I initially thought it was going to be because most of the guidance looks very similar to the guidance that was given in the eiv notice in subsequent chapter 9 in the 4350 but it says for paper files you know you have to have burnt red pulverise and when we're converting paper files you're not trying format prior to us destroying the paper we have to check with our state and local government to make sure we can what we're supposed to do with them what if there's anything we have to retain as original what printouts we have to have all of that stuff sort needs to be double-checked before we destroy at conversion and then reviews conducted by HUD or the contract administrator in compliance with HUDs guidance may involve reading electronic files so that's a change to the way that they have always done business which is they do not accept electronic versions of multifamily files so it does say the files must provide be provided in compliance with our regulations and security policies and the owner may continue to furnish paper documents if you prefer so I guarantee there are some folks out there that can continue to do paper documents because the a don't have the resources to convert to electronic files or the desire right some people just this has worked for me since 1974 when I built this property I'm not changing if it ain't broke don't fix that right so there are going to be folks that want it and I will tell you I worked for a contract administrator for many years we prefer paper documents when we're doing on it it's easier to see if documents have been altered if we have the originals and so I know that there's gonna be some folks that are just like we just do what the contract administrator wants we know they prefer paper files so we're just going to keep doing that and all those options are fine if you choose to have electronic files that's fine if you choose to stay with paper documents that's also acceptable under pending notice some regulations again require that those things have two notices have to be delivered in different delivery methodologies first-class mail etc and in those situations electronic transmission does not satisfy those requirements and that can be both by your state and local law or by hud regulation so there are things in the 4350 that say they have to be delivered in certain methods so examples of that are listed in that notice about how which documents have to be done really it's about eviction mostly for us it's about termination notices or at least violations but make sure you understand how that has to happen in that an electronic transmission of those specific notices does not satisfy the rule when the tenant is provided and notice in paper form if you want to scan that in electronically that's fine you can do that just make sure you keep documentation of the tenant notification in compliance with the regulation as well industry partners must provide all notices in compliance with 504 and ATA so those fair housing requirements make sure that we implement the guidance and it says we cannot have processes that hinder folks with disabilities from being able to participate in the process and not throw up barriers because of their disabilities so nothing new here either right if somebody needs an alternative method we have to provide that can things like auxilary AIDS or services necessary to facilitate proper communication and we need translators for those folks who have limited English proficiency all of those things still stand and are still true so if a person with a disability is unable to sort of submit things electronically we still have to allow them reasonable accommodations to communicate in a different method that doesn't throw up areas to their participation so final thoughts are some things to think about as we sort of walk away from this now notice I don't think that this nurse answers every question I think maybe it creates some additional questions now that we have this guidance about how they expect us to implement things in different situations so I do think we'll have some questions and answers coming from HUD regarding this notice some back and forth with industry partners once we've had time to sort of ingest and process all of this new information or once we start trying to implement things practically some things are just not going to work what we thought or what HUD thinks is going to work potentially is just not so I do think we'll see some additional questions at least FAQ from HUD regarding those certain situations the other thing I think we take away from this is we need to be very thoughtful when we're making decisions about conversion activities really how does this affect our families what is our family dynamic if you have an elderly property where the majority of your tenants are over the age of 80 is really electronic transmission of data gonna be helpful or hurtful to those folks and to you just trying to communicate with them do they have you know electronic mechanisms if they do do they aide are they able to use it it's lots of questions I think we just need to be thoughtful when we're going through the process maybe one size does not fit all in these things we have properties that have more electronic processes than others and but I just think before we jump we really need to think about how this is going to affect with our staff from a compliance standpoint and our families that we serve and then just as a reminder I know I said a couple times during our conversation but we must still offer a paper process to residents and applicants so we need to make sure that it's very clear in our our websites or if we're accepting electronic applications that there is a very clear statement that says if you can't do this here's how you apply in paper here's where you get that document we need to show our due diligence to HUD into the contract administrator that we are not saying this is the only way that you can apply for our housing and I know if you are listening and you were a rad conversion property in particular under Republican Indian housing you don't have the same restrictions potentially we do in multifamily so maybe have a lot more freedom when you had public housing but now that you've converted to PDR aide this is the new guidance it's much more restrictive in some cases than what you had in public and Indian housing so sort of just a take away from that that sometimes we have to like sort of pull back with our technology instead of moving forward which is frustrating I totally understand that oh if you have any questions comments concerns you need anything moving forward here's my contact information and my phone number please feel free to email me or give me a call I'm happy to help wherever I can and thank you for your time today you