Ensuring Digital Signature Legality for Pregnancy Leave Policy in Canada

How to eSign a document: digital signature legality for Pregnancy Leave Policy in Canada

morning everyone thank you for joining us this morning i apologize for the for the delay and getting started i don't think it'd be a webinar if we didn't run into um a couple of technical issues um if you if you've any issues in in hearing me just let me know we've got a q a tab or there should be a q a tab at the top there any questions that you ask we'll we'll drop into the in into the side um we'll deal with questions at the at the end um there'll also be a recording of the meeting that's going to be sent out afterwards um if there's any specific questions that we're unable to deal with during the webinar and we'll get in touch with you separately to deal with any specific points um so what i'm going to be discussing this morning um is the steps that you need to take at the point at which you've been notified that uh an employee is pregnant um apologies from going overground here which you're all familiar with um but for the avoidance of doubt i wanted to run through the steps which we should generally be taking once you've been informed of that pregnancy stephen is then going to be talking you through the steps you need to be taking during that maternity leave period and i'll also be covering a couple of the potential claims which can arise in certain situations and the best way to mitigate against those claims as well so obligations on you once you receive that notification of the pregnancy um the notification can be given verbally or in rising um if you request confirmation in writing that's something that the employee has to provide but otherwise it's entirely a choice for you if you accept the notification verbally or in writing and that must be provided to you no later than 15 weeks before the due date and the employee must be must confirm the fact that the pregnant uh the expected week of birth that's usually recorded in a matt b1 form uh and the date that they wish to start maternity leave and of course the earliest that they can start is 11 weeks before their due date the next step we would advise you then take is is looking at risk assessments the health and safety executive has produced a very helpful guide to assist employers with the types of things that you may wish to include as part of that risk assessment regulation 16 of the health and safety regulations provides that where the workforce includes women of child bearing age there's a specific risk assessment that's required of any risk that arises from the condition of being pregnant in relation to her work the employer's duty is then to take steps to avoid the risk to individual employees or if they cannot take those steps the next step is then to consider altering the terms and conditions of her employment the duty to avoid the risk or alter the terms and conditions only applies when you're notified of the pregnancy so the point at which you receive that notification that's where your obligations as an employer kicks in that duty on you to carry out that risk assessment and monitor the situation that continues only during the pregnancy and up to six months after the employee has given birth or if the mother is breastfeeding up to the end of the breastfeeding period and so that's the the period of time that your duty to assess risk continues for um if the conditions cannot be altered and so if there were conditions for that particular employee cannot be altered um the employee must be offered um suitable alternative work and of course that's going to depend on the type of work they're undertaking as to whether or not that's feasible if that's not possible if there isn't any suitable alternative employment the employer must then suspend the employee on pay a failure to carry out those risk assessments can give rise to a claim for pregnancy discrimination uh however there does have to be risk there there needs to be some risk that they're placed at the duty to do the risk assessments of course is only con is only triggered if certain conditions are met um notification of the pregnancy so as i said earlier your duties employees only kicks in once you've received that notification the second step the work could involve risk again that would that will be assessed on a case-by-case basis and finally the risk must arise from the working conditions or the processes carried out by the employer so once those three conditions are met that's where the duty to carry out the risk assessment is engaged um ensure of course that those risk assessments are in writing and consult with the employee about that risk assessment the third step so you've received notification of the pregnancy you've taken steps to carry out a risk assessment the next step is then responding to the employee so we must respond within 28 days of receiving um the information from the employee that she's pregnant and the date on which she intends to take maternity leave um stephen will go into a bit more detail about this with you but generally they're entitled to 52 weeks maternity leave um and this is something of course that you need to confirm in writing to them and then return to work date and if they want to change this they must give you um eight weeks notice um it might be easier just to work on the assumption that they're going to take the full year and if the employee notifies you of any change that's fine and as i say they must give you eight weeks notice of any of any change to that return to work date a failure by the employer to provide that information means that you cannot prevent them returning early without notice and you may not be able to discipline or dismiss them for delaying their return from maternity leave so it's really important that um we've set that information out in writing practically finding yourself in a position where an individual it's the choice of the individual when they're coming back and there's no obligation on them to to notify you and that of course can put you in a tricky situation and it's difficult for you then to plan around staffing needs you may want to also consider including the following information when we're responding to the employee in writing um the fact that they will have uh rights to pay time off to attend um antenatal classes um usually that is evidenced by appointment cards except for the first appointment um it's not necessary for the employee to produce evidence if you do request that evidence the employee has to provide it you may want to consider setting out their entitlements that's that's ideal for the employee but also for you as employers it just works as a gentle reminder as to what those entitlements are and that can include maternity pay certain benefits etc if they don't qualify for statutory maternity pay what we would generally do then is provide a form smp1 which will help that employee apply for maternity allowance and you may also want to set out which can be a bit of a contentious issue how and when holidays will be taken and so if that's something that you've already agreed with the employee set that out in writing with them so everyone's clear as to what the uh what the arrangements are whether or not holidays are being taken beforehand or holidays are being taken afterwards so some potential risks and how to mitigate against these risks um and these this is generally the point at which we um become involved and assisting companies with with defending these sorts of claims um the equality act that sets out predominantly all the rights that are afforded to a pregnant employee this in terms of pregnancy itself pregnancy discrimination can only take place during what's called the protected period that begins when the pregnancy begins and ends either at the end of her additional maternity leave period or when she returns to work after her pregnancy and if she has the right to ordinary an additional maternity leave or at the end of the period of two weeks beginning with the end of the pregnancy if she does not have the right to ordinary and an additional maternity leave so during that period the protected period that is when um if an individual is to pursue a claim for pregnancy discrimination it will be for alleged discriminatory acts that have taken place during that protected period outside of that protected period an employment tribunal will not have jurisdiction to hear a claim for pregnancy discrimination um such circumstances the employee may present that as a claim for sex discrimination um unfavorable treatment [Music] as far as section 18 is concerned this must be unfavorable treatments in relation to a pregnancy of hers may seem obvious but claims for discrimination can manifest themselves in a number of ways and in certain situations uh the individual the individual who's complaining of the discrimination doesn't necessarily have to be in possession of that prospective characteristic um however the the position with pregnancy discrimination is that only an individual can can bring a claim against a pregnancy of their own um that may be because of the pregnancy itself it may be due to illness that the individual has suffered as a result of her pregnancy and if an individual is taking sick leave it's important to have a look at what the reason for the sickness absence is on the foot notes um treating someone less favorably because of the fact that they're on sickness absence because of a pregnancy can give rise under section 18 to a claim for pregnancy discrimination it'll also be discriminatory if she's treated unfavorably because of the fact that she's on compulsory maternity leave or she is exercising or seeking to exercise her right to ordinary or additional maternity leave um you may have heard of the phrase victimization it depends in what context that that you hear it can have a number of different meanings in this particular context it's given a very specific definition um by the equality act victimization occurs when an employee does a protected act certainly in our experience um members of staff who are pregnant looking to take maternity leave sometimes raising concerns about risk assessments or the lack of a risk assessment and those things may be classed as a protected act so that is where an individual is raising concerns that their employer is not complying with their obligations under the equality act so for example a failure to carry out a risk assessment that may qualify as a protected act um in order to complete the claim for victimization um what the employee must then go on to show is that they've been put to a detriment as a result of raising that protected act and i've just set out on the slide there what a protected act is bringing a claim under the equality act giving evidence or information in connection with proceedings under the equality act the third one you can see is extremely widely drafted that says doing any other thing for the purposes of or in connection with the equality act and finally making an allegation that someone has breached the equality act to mitigate against risk where individuals have raised concerns about either risk assessments or some other way in which an employer has has handled the pregnancy it's important to consult with the employee document those concerns and reach a resolution and there's far more risk involved where those concerns are raised and there isn't an investigation there isn't an outcome delivered and subsequently an employee either is dismissed or isn't brought back into the position they were previously that allows an employee to then speculate as to whether or not the reason for that was because they were raising concerns um about the way in which the the employer had handled the pregnancy um an employee also has rights in the employment rights rights act 1996 uh this is the right not to be subject to any detriment by the employer for a prescribed reason um a prescribed reason is one um which is prescribed by the regulations as relating to pregnancy childbirth or maternity including maternity leave um those rights are always set also set out at regulation 19 of the maternity and parental leave regulations so the the takeaway there in terms of mitigating risk as i say always important to consult with members of staff whenever they raise concerns and the risk assessment is a huge part of this as i say the health and safety executive has some really good guidance online and the more that you're consulting with that employee before she takes maternity leave and the more that you're able to get those things in in writing and agreement um both you and the employee have a better understanding as to what the arrangements are on their return it significantly reduces the risk um of a claim in our experience these risks tend to arise where uh individuals have raised concerns they've not really been addressed that individual is then on maternity leave for up to 12 months and on return the environment is quite hostile because they've not had these arrangements in place and the individual feels as though they've just been left and for 12 months and so that's um [Music] the point at which you're notified of the pregnancy and i'll hand over to steve and he's going to deal with the um with the steps you need to take at the point at which you've been notified of the pregnancy and then they're taking maternity leave okay good morning everyone my name's stephen woodhouse i'm a senior associate here at stevenson's um i'm just going to work through the maternity side of things following from adam's focus on the pregnancy issues and i've tried to focus more on the the do's than the don't so you can take away from this presentation practical steps rather than a huge list of things that you shouldn't be doing and we're starting off by looking at the fundamentals uh regarding maternity leave and the first one is that the employee is entitled to 52 weeks maternity leave which is made up of ordinary and additional maternity leave as well now unlike maternity pay which will come on onto under 0.2 it's something which arises on day one so they have the right to take that maternity leave from day one and if we contrast that with the second issue there which is maternity pay that arises after they've had 26 weeks service at the 15th week before the expected week of childbirth so it's a bit of a mouthful and in addition to that they've also got to earn at least 123 pounds per week on average now if they do qualify statutory maternity pay is payable for up to 39 weeks and they're entitled to 90 of their average weekly earnings before tax for the first six weeks and then 156 pounds 66 or 90 of their average weekly earnings whichever's lower for the remaining 33 weeks after the 39 weeks though if they decide to take uh 52 weeks maternity leave that last portion will be will be unpaid unless they choose to take holidays which we'll come on to in a moment and statutory maternity pay is paid in the same way as normal wages for example it's on a monthly or a weekly basis and tax and national insurance will be deducted as well and the third fundamental right relates to shared parental leave which is a much more recent uh invention and here the employees have got the right to give up part of their maternity leave period and statutory maternity pay in order to benefit from shared parental leave and shared parental pay which allows them to as the name suggests share it with their partner they can share up to 50 weeks um the only aspect that's not covered by it is the first two weeks which must be taken by the mother um following the birth but after that there's an ability to share 50 weeks amongst the the parents and the partner must also meet the continuity of employment tests that we talked about under the number two which was the maternity pay which is that they've got to be employed for 26 weeks by the end of the 15th week in order to be to be eligible the fourth point then this is an issue that often crops up and is forgotten about during maternity leave is that the employee continues to accrue their holidays during maternity leave so it's an important distinction there and then the final point relates to enhanced legal protection um in respect of as adam touched upon not being treated less favorably because of your pregnancy on maternity and the different aspects that i hadn't touched upon earlier but there's also a special category there uh relating to redundancies and regulation 10. regulation 10 is referring to regulation 10 of the maternity and paternity regulations and that gives employees who are on maternity and absolute right and that is that if in a redundancy situation a suitable alternative vacancy arises they must be offered that position at the expense of any other employee without requiring them to go through a competitive interview process so it's an automatic right rather than something which they have to fight for i will now just move on to consider the the three aspects of maternity leave so just before we go on maternity to leave what practical steps do we need to take during maternity leave and then planning for the return so starting with before the maternity leave administration and paperwork get the paperwork in order that that's something that again i've seen time and time again in practice people don't do and it's all a rush job at the last minute so make sure that everybody's got the right paperwork the uh might be one form that the notification process that adam talked about in terms of notifying uh you of the pregnancy and all the records are up to date in that respect and when they plan to start and end their maternity leave and also the arrangements around maternity pay the next point there is handover of work so first of all you need to discuss before they go off not on the last day the workload and the handover process so are you going to recruit somebody to cover their role for the period of maternity leave for example and do you need to bring that new employee in earlier say two weeks earlier to allow that handover and that familiarization with the role because if you bring them up after the event you've lost that opportunity to pass over key information and if you're not going to hire somebody specifically to to cover maternity and it's going to be regis distributed amongst other staff how is that going to work you know will it be split evenly is it somebody who's going to take a lead role in terms of covering that employee on maternity leave so think and plan ahead is is the key message with that and i think it often gets lost with everything else that's going on um holidays prior to maternity leave again have they got any annual leave left and again this is something to look at two three months out we're obviously aware as we've touched upon that the employee will accrue a significant amount of annual leave that they're not entitled to take during the maternity leave period so it's always sensible for you and for them to use up the holidays where possible in advance of the maternity leave so that they're starting with a relatively clean slate before they build up a significant amount that they'll then need to take it's all subject subject to the situation at the time you might be requiring to finish on certain projects and it's not feasible but just have that thought in your mind two three months out before the maternity leave starts and it will help you in the long run and the next one we're looking at is is obviously the employment status so defining your contracts of employment what's going to happen what the rights going to be during the maternity leave so we've mentioned there bonuses benefits are they going to continue to be entitled to receive bonuses is that a policy that you have is that something that you're looking to implement whatever the decision it's important to have clarity from all sides so there's no confusion and you're not facing grievances and things like that arising from a failure to pay a bonus during maternity leave uh and again practical arrangements around pension so for example do they does the employer want to make additional contributions during the maternity leave period to top up the contributions that you as an employer are not making so those are just practical steps you need to think about before they go off on maternity leave the next issue then is what you do during maternity leave and making sure that you're you're dealing with the key issues as and when they arise so how does the employee want to be spoken to or contacted you know agree that before they go off so that you can abide by their wishes during the maternity leave period do they want to receive regular updates job vacancies things like that or would they rather just be kept out of it whatever the situation agree in advance and then there could be no problems during the maternity leave period consider and it's a relatively early stage obviously um in maternity but keeping touch stage you know when are they gonna it tends to be used towards the end of the maternity leave to be honest but perhaps plan ahead and say look is that something that you're going to want to utilize and and maybe even outline the dates or months perhaps that that's going to be possible and so they might want to go on a an away day or a particular conference that's important to them as part of their role so i think think ahead and make sure that if there is opportunities to undertake keeping keeping in touch days and the employee wants to do it you give them access and opportunity to take that where reasonable and again update them on key changes in the workplace so we've already talked about redundancy and things like that and but you know they like to be involved often but it goes back to that communication point from from the start if they say look i'm not interested in what's going on at work i want to enjoy maternity leave don't don't interrupt that then that's that's fair enough but if they do want to be kept and up to speed on things then make sure that you are abiding by that agreement um and again we touched upon redundancy there that if there is a redundancy process they have enhanced rights and it's important that they're not left out in the cold again as i've seen in practice during a redundancy process and in fact they're entitled to preferential treatment and again it's relatively early on but what are the arrangements going to be for returning to work and already you can be thinking about things like flexible working so it might be that you could invite them to partway through the maternity leave invite them in for a meeting to have a discussion it could be by telephone teams whatever it would be at their convenience but have that conversation early because if they are going to want to vary their hours after they return from maternity leave you need to be able to deal with that process in advance and again you're not leaving things to la the last minute so if you've got a policy on that make sure that they know where it is and they've got access to it so they can see how the flexible working procedure um acts in in in practice and moving on just to the final stage if you like which is the the end of the maternity leave period what's going to happen with those holidays that that have built up um are they going to want to to use them in a block are they going to want to stagger their return to work and perhaps return partially on effectively a part-time basis for the first few weeks if they work five days a week they might take two days annual leave and work the remaining three for a period until those days of leave that the built up have um have have been used up and think about the employees position you know at the point that they're returning so if they've taken 26 weeks or less this period is known as the ordinary maternity leave period and they've got the right to return to the same job after ordinary maternity leave if they've taken more than 26 weeks then you're then into the additional maternity leave period and they've got the right to return to the same job but if it's not possible because there have been significant organizational changes then they can be offered a similar role but it can't be on terms which are worse than before so for example the following things should be the same you pay benefits holiday entitlement seniority and those are things that you really want to make sure that you're abiding by and then in terms of the practical arrangements there the handover and training again they've obviously had a time out of the business and depending on the nature of the work that you undertake things can certainly in legal terms things develop very quickly law changes all the time so do they need to be offered training on certain aspects and do they need to be on a course or something like that give them opportunity to get up to speed on any new developments in your area so that they're not coming back to work cold and again if you're working in a kind of professional services environment and you've got things like ofsted or regulatory issues they need to make sure that in order to do their role effectively they've got that training under their belt um and hand over just practical steps again get that hand over don't you know whether it's the maternity leave cover whether it's the previous uh whether it's existing staff who were who were taking up the work whilst uh they're on maternity leave make sure that there's that discussion in good time before the return so there's no confusion on day one after they come back breastfeeding it's a point which comes up time and time again but speak to them is there any arrangements that they need on their return to work facilities for breast breastfeeding expressing milk things like that you have an obligation as a an employer to provide a space for four months who are breastfeeding to lie down and rest if they need to but there is no specific legal right to offer specific breastfeeding breaks at work so it's about making the environment safe and accommodating that for them and family benefits you know things have changed perhaps drastically um in their lives so there might be things that you offer such as a nursery or crash service or child care vouchers or emergency nanny services or something like that do you offer reduced child care fees if you're a nursery or educational establishment think about the practical situation uh before the returning employee and see if there's anything that you can do to offer them now that's a whistle-stop tour in respect of the key issues around maternity leave the different stages and the things that you should look out for and but i just thought it was important to offer you an overview on the key tenants of best practice during that period so thanks for your time today i think we'll be opening it up for questions now um if anybody wants to put any questions in the in the q a box and i'll bring in adam again so he can also participate in that we've got a question com coming in um position if someone's role is split between a team while they're on maternity leave but by the time they return it means the role is is no longer needed and as steven said whilst you whilst that individual is on maternity leave if a potential redundancy situation presents itself um it's important that they um are still involved with that um redundancy process so the duty uh to consult um with with those members of staff and that pregnant employee that doesn't change just because they're on maternity leave so if we're considering whether or not that individual's role is is needed that individual will perhaps need to be cooled where necessary with other members of staff so if a redundancy situation is to arise it's important to consult with the individual on maternity leave together with those members of staff who are still in the office uh in the usual way a failure to do that is where there is a risk a significant risk will then arise that they may argue that it's because of the fact that they're on maternity leave that's why they have been being dismissed so just make sure that you carry out that redundancy process in the usual way you would [Music] if they were in the workplace yeah and just just to add to that again one of the strongest rights relating to maternity and pregnancy and indeed the strong one of the strongest rights throughout all of employment law is that is that right to be offered a suitable alternative vacancy to the person on maternity leave at the expense of other people it's just the fundamental right that they have which is unfettered so it's important that you are recognizing that and that you don't put them through for example an interview process or a selection process because they have the right to be selected effectively for that new position if indeed one is available there's another question coming up not too dissimilar if the if the business changes and needs to move the person to a new role can we offer training during the leave um as stephen touched upon that we'll be keeping in touch days as part of that maternity leave period and it's a good point if if trains going to be offered and that would be good opportunity as part of those keeping in touch days to discuss that with them again just remember those changes cannot be made unilaterally um it'd be no different to the individual not being on maternity leave there's a duty to consult in the same way as anyone else if there's if there's a need to change a role um so an individual on maternity leave discovers that there's been a a change to their role and they've not been consulted about that again um it's important we have a discussion with them anyone else in the team who it affects um and the fact that the individuals on maternity leave shouldn't make any difference to that um we we did a similar talk a couple of weeks ago and a good question was raised um in safaris miscarriage is concerned and stillbirth and what are the rights of the employee in those circumstances which was a good question um it's important you take specific advice um because the the rules change slightly depending on when and when the death occurs if generally speaking if the uh stillborn if the baby is still born before at the end of the 24th week of the pregnancy um it's treated as a miscarriage and unfortunately that individual won't qualify for maternity leave or maternity pay if there's a miscarriage however if the employee needs time off sick as a result of the miscarriage that should be treated as pregnancy-related illness we touched on earlier the risk to an employer where they're found to have treated someone unfavorably because of the fact that they have been absent from work with pregnancy-related illness again they don't have to disclose the fact that um that there was a miscarriage a failure to disclose that fact to use employers means it will be very difficult for them to prove discrimination however where you are on notice of a miscarriage and that employee provides evidence of the fact that they're having to take sick leave because of that absence again just be careful that's where claims discrimination can creep in it's also important to discount that absence for disciplinary purposes for redundancy exercises if you are factoring in that sickness absence that's related to pregnancy or in the circumstances of a miscarriage again that's where there's a risk of a claim of discrimination arising um the the flip side of that is where uh the baby was delivered after the end of the 24th week of the pregnancy uh the employee is entitled uh to maternity leave and maternity pay that they qualify for um so there's important distinctions there between the timing of the death um the potential claims that arise and the importance as i say for you to make sure that you've you understood your obligations in that regard so you can make sure that maternity pay maternity leave is calculated in the in the correct way um right we've got another one in here regarding return to work what's the position where there was a role change i'm returning for in 12 months where there was no prior consultation or communication [Music] it's not on the basis of a role right okay it it might be worth us speaking with you separately on that sounds as though you've got a specific issue there and what we'd be happy to do is is have a chat with you um after the webinar leslie is going to be sending out a recording of today's webinar our details will be in there i'll con direct contact details so don't hesitate to get in touch with us it sounds as though you've you've got a bit of a live issue there that you could uh you could do with some help with so by all means and if any of you have specific queries that you would like to have a discussion with us about send them across yeah and just just to add quickly on that i think the one thing that jumps out to me from your question it's relatively complex in its nature but it talks about how there was no prior consultation or communication of a role disappearing and they found out on day one of the return now clearly that is very poor practice because if significant changes are made to business after 12 months it can't be helped but lack of communication and consultation is is not particularly forgivable for an employer they should be at least warning the employee in consulting with them properly as adam and i have said on numerous occasions through this and that's the key message you don't leave the employee out in the cold whilst on the city to leave keep that communication line open and make sure that they are not feeling as though they've been left left out in the coal um another point that you may come across particularly on the return to work after maternity leave is uh requests for flexible working particularly where the um in respect of child care needs so individuals coming back previously on a full-time role and it's quite common of course that you will receive flexible working requests and again it's important the way in which you handle those requests um if they're not handled in the right way that can give rise to again claims for discrimination where um the employee will and indeed the courts have now reinforced this idea that statistically women have more child care needs than men that isn't something that needs to be proven um and so where they are placed at a particular disadvantage because of the requirement for them to work certain hours and those those sorts of scenarios need to be handled quite carefully just to reduce the risk of a claim arising um got another question here do we need to do the risk assessment if the individual is working from home we've done one for working from home do we need an additional assessment if they are pregnant um just going back to what those three what the three stages were first of all whether or not there is a risk generally speaking best practices and for the avoidance of doubt would be to carry out that risk assessment um particularly if the individual has raised any concerns themselves um consulting with them and ensuring even if it it is working from home that they've got everything they need um our advice is that would always be best practice um once you've got that agreed in writing again it reduces the risk of a claim uh being brought at a later stage or then a legend that you know concerns were raised but no one consulted with the employee um safer not to make assumptions that working from home what is the risk discuss that with the employee and set out an assessment and ensure that you know both you and them have it have important and it's signed off to that effect but yeah best practice would be to carry out an assessment in those circumstances for the avoidance of doubt yeah and just a final question here i think there's a reference to the neo natal care leave and pay bill which is currently going through the obvious point on that is that until it it becomes uh law and it obviously doesn't yet apply to you and we'll be posting any updates in relation to any changes to the legislation but there is already existing legislation which covers that kind of situation because parents have the right to take time off in emergency situations for dependents anyway so there is some protection there and but that predominantly is to do with the coverage of time off it's not present to do with pay so perhaps that's something which can be welcomed in particular emergency situations but again with new legislation wait to see what comes in make sure that your policies are as up-to-date as they can be and then it'll put you in the best possible position to be ready to to respond to any changes and just so the questions come in uh if an employee asks to book leave for pregnancy termination do we still need to follow the steps for pregnancy i.e risk assessments uh up until that point yeah the the duty on you to carry out that assessment time starts to tick as soon as you've been notified of the pregnancy um so you will follow those steps in the usual way and then depending on when the termination takes place again just casting your mind back and bearing in mind the point at which the death takes place um can have a direct impact on the right to maternity pay maternity leave but yeah a good question you would carry that assessment through up until that that's that point of of termination the usual way because those obligations kick in as soon as you're notified about the pregnancy and of course the legislation requires generally um although it's not something that we often get instructed at that point but the regulations require generally that as soon as a woman is at a childbearing age those sorts of assessments or risk assessment should be in place but again that will be case sensitive depending on the working environment there has to be that risk in place before before those assessments need to be carried out if there are any other topics that you you would find useful that you would like us to cover as i say when when the recording is sent over to you by all means um any suggestions um you may have found that you're having a common issue that keeps cropping up um we'd be happy to present on that and um as i say if there are any specific issues you have in by all means our direct contact details will be in the email feel free to get in touch with us and we can see if we can help you further um but otherwise would thank you all for for joining us this morning apologies again for um for the delay in getting um getting things live but uh as i say it wouldn't have been um a microsoft teams presentation without that um so thanks for joining us and as i say please feel free to get in touch with us if you have any questions or specific issues you need advice on