Ensure Digital Signature Legitimacy for Financial Services in United Kingdom with airSlate SignNow

How to eSign a document: digital signature legitimacy for Financial Services in United Kingdom

[Music] foreign [Music] welcome to UK Finance digital Innovation Summit 2020. I'm Sue Rossiter principal for mortgage regulation at UK Finance now it's third year the Summit is gathering industry experts to explore how we reimagine financial services and to discuss how the discuss issues such as the role of emerging Technologies in protecting consumers how transparency can be increased and how Legacy systems can be overcome among many others across seven content streams featuring The innovators and Game Changers that are reimagining Financial Services this session will form part of the mortgage technology stream and we'll be discussing how established lenders can lead the way with digital disruption the digitalization sector during 2020 and lessons from adapting to payment deferrals among many other topics around the mortgage Innovation sphere in today's discussion in association of mortal life we will be discussing developing a digital identity trust framework for the home buying and selling process the mortgage industry has evolved at a rapid Pace during 2020 digitizing processes and opening doors for other Innovations take place in this sector this panel discussion will focus on the potential for developing a digital identity trust framework to streamline the home buying and selling process for both customers and for lenders joining me today I'm delighted to welcome some of my experts to join me for the discussion Kate Fortnight is the chair of the home buying and selling group and Stuart young is the founder of etif Technologies just before I hand over to our speakers I'll cover a few housekeeping items we really encourage you to look around the virtual event platform engage in sessions visit our sponsors pages and review our on-demand content including our 15-minute Pioneer Zone talks if you have any questions please feel free to submit them and a member of the team will respond to you in due course additionally please feel free to search for our speakers to message them directly with your questions and also to connect with your peers I'll now turn to our speakers thank you for joining us today and would you each give us a quick overview of what you do and why you're interested in developing a digital identity trust framework so Stuart kick us off would you be able to give a bit of background on the work you've been doing with dcms and the regulatory authorities on a shared digital identity trust framework thanks Sue um today's actually quite an exciting day for us your timing couldn't have been better because our project officially starts today and it's a six-month project due to finish at the end of April the background to this project we started earlier in the year in February of this year looking at identity and Trust framework for identity we did some preliminary work with engagement from mhclg land registry the CLC the Law Society and SRA and what we've tried to do is try to understand and work out is the requirement for an identity trust framework and very importantly can it actually be done and can one be set up that work highlighted to us that it could could be done and we started getting understanding of what would be required to do that so we started working now with dcms and land registry and hclg and hmrc as regular government bodies look and what we've done with them is understand what dcms are trying to achieve at a UK policy level so they're looking at a UK policy identity for UK PLC whereas what we were looking at is looking at a once one sector one vertical in that which is home buying and selling and how that could be aligned to government policy so that that starts to build the framework for for a UK identity policy so what we've now got is we've got ways of working and the agreement aligned with dcms and their policy so really nicely for us is this this work will shape and influence the dcms policy and conversely the other way around and this is the same with uh land registry and what they're trying to achieve so all the work we're doing will be aligned to to what they're trying to achieve in um home buying and selling around that impacts them so from a regular regulatory perspective we've got brilliant engagement and agreements sorted out with them and the brilliant opportunity for this sector is that it'll help to shape that um gcms policy about what they're trying to do for the UK Stuart the next question would naturally be can a digital identity trust framework work for the finance sector and what are the advantages for that for the financial institutions okay can um you know there's there's been a number of initiatives that have taken place in the past um in in your sector if I can call it that um one of which was promoted by UK Finance uh in which my colleagues were involved in and in addition there's been some work done through the likes of tech UK and the FCA sandbox to demonstrate the capability of digital identity again where we developed a specific pilot with UK identity providers and the European identity Tech uh tech companies so the the digital identity scheme for the finance sector has a as a kind of very specific Target of the the government of the number of years and a number of the large Banks were encouraged to become idps in the verify scheme um but only kind of Barclays took that up they you know the huge benefits of a digital identity scheme in the finance sector and most of the European digital identity schemes are based on banks ID as like we've seen in the scanned countries so to open banking has created you know a significant amount of infrastructure required for digital identity schemes and the advantages of this for consumers is that you know it reduces the friction that they would need that they have to go through and if customers are going through a home buying and selling perspective process and they get an identity that allows them to get a mortgage for 200 200 000 pounds or six hundred thousand pounds whatever it might be about how they could reuse that same identity to purchase other Financial products and services which they're going to need um through through that process so the interoperability between the two schemes is going to be absolutely key and for the financial institutions what it starts to allow them to do now they've been trying to to develop their own trust framework for quite a long time but this can potentially give them an actual working model of how a trust in the lines framework could actually work and will work so that they could actually start to use this so if consumers coming through that purchasing process I just carrying on they're just still using that one that identity and makes it easy then for for the financial institutions to service those customers and it also helps to tackle low-level or sort of the initial areas of things like property and mortgage fraud from the financial institutions as well so consumers coming through that process so it has an operational benefits for the financial institutions as well so the project is starting off today Kate what's your involvement been um from the home buyers and sellers group in the project so the job of the home buying the selling group is really to try and bring as many people together from the start of the moving process to the end um and to be honest we've been really rubbish at doing that in the past so from my view um what we don't do in the home buying selling process is we don't pass the customer smoothly between us if you think you work with lenders you work with Brokers you work with agents legal companies uh surveyors removal companies search industry Etc because we've not sat down and talked to each other and because we've not really um in get our systems don't necessarily talk to each other as well that means there's a massive duplication process for the consumer which is intensely frustrating at a time when they're moving which bear in mind means they're having a baby getting divorced getting married somebody's died they're in debt so they're already in a high stress State and I don't when I think of any change that we're looking at I consider those people in that stress State and how it's going to impact them and um just to kind of uh so everything we're trying to do on the home buying and selling group is say and this is where students be great we now have a group we we have a group on the digital identity which means we're involving everybody from day one so it's not one it's not the government pushing an identity uh rules if you like onto our sector which might work for lenders but doesn't work for the legal professional doesn't work for surveying what we're looking at doing here is making sure the framework that we have is compatible with everybody and the end game for us is really making sure that for the consumer when they do and I when they have to prove their identity which of course is a must they do it in the most consumer-friendly way possible and I have to say having been through that process I'm just saying my mum's home at the moment um it was it's been rubbish I can only describe it as rubbish and frustrating partly because and I think these are the practical things I think we forget that I think is really important to understand so the reason we're selling my mum's home is she has had to go into a nursing home and one of the reasons she's had to go into nursing home is she has very arthritic fingers and you might think what on Earth is she babbling on about this for well that's important because she can't press buttons and she can't sign stuff so even though you so signing Bits of Paper is a nightmare but even the digital identity process which was better I had to go to a home and obviously we're doing covert as well um I had to have a carer in between the two of us making sure we were two meters apart we were all hand sanitizing like every second and I was having to put mum's details into the identity check I was then having to wait for a code to come back I'd had to make sure I'd brought Post-its with me don't forget we're doing this outside we went to that meeting site put the number on then the carer had to stick that Post-it to my mum's chest and then I had to take a photograph of it to prove her identity now actually that was better than a paper process because that was hard and I have LPA with mum so that's fine but on the other scale the really interesting thing and this is where we have to get this right to make sure this compatibility from every sector are incredibly important because my frustration is I did that identity check for my legal company the other legal company who that was representing the buyer is now querying my identity and the reason for that is when we bought mum's house I was married so um I it was brought in my married name that was on the land registry now I appear as Faulkner well we don't know who you are she says and the fact that the legal company that I was working with had done the identity check known me for years um didn't matter but we all forget as well I have to say going through divorce is not a nice thing and every single piece of paperwork that I've had to deal with it says Kate Fortner brackets formerly Bell and I have been reminded of a daily basis for the last two months of a really Torrid time in my life and I know why it's been done but you kind of think and I know this sounds a bit arrogant I'm on the BBC every flipping week you only have to watch the Telly to see I am who I am but this questioning of my identity was actually very stressful for me and the fact that my legal company can't assure the other legal company that I am who I said I am particularly as they dealt with the divorce as well in is intensely frustrating and the so that's just between two legal people so now you expand that out to everybody else this is where we these things are incredibly important for everybody to get involved with but mostly to understand that end person and make sure that you don't have to go through the relatively traumatic experiences on the ground and that's what this is all about and I think sometimes with regulation vote that that that the person and the and the life that they're going through and what's happening to them is complete forgotten and so that's really what I I what I want is at home buying selling group that's our job to make sure this goes but it's done in a way that that puts consumers first that's that's really interesting thank you um Stuart um who's going to if you if the finance sector were introduced such a system how would the identity trust scheme actually work how would it operate and what are going to be the challenges for the introduction of a system throughout a very complex commercial chain yeah it's good good question see thanks for that one um I think you know open banking has created a significant amount of the infrastructure required for digital identity uh for a digital identity scheme and I think it could be developed to sort to support such a scheme and the rules for such a scream could be determined or would be determined by the industry but would sit within the UK government's trust framework which is currently being developed by dcms and they're going out to do a second consultation just I think later this month it is and they're looking at doing a project next year trying to testate it so I think the scheme rules though would not differ significantly from the rules for this scheme as interoperability between schemes is obviously going to be a key deliverable of dcms but they're going to they need to allow each vertical sector to develop their own scheme and I think use of terminology is is quite important here so to avoid confusion whilst dcms are developing a digital identity trust framework for the UK each sector will need not be developed their own trust framework but their own scheme yeah hopefully that will make sense so if I use the word scheme that's what I mean I think that's quite important to avoid confusion so the scheme rules will not differ significantly from the rules of this scheme as between schemes as a key deliverable of dcms and which we intend to ensure is established within this scheme so in particular we intend to establish how the identity of verification standards adopted for this sector align against the five MLD and the J um LSG guidance and with the Rewritten rules of gpg 44 and gpg 45 and that should GPT 45 have been extended bit more should hopefully make it a bit easier but combined with that you've then got land Registries work around and you know there opening them up in a greater use of digital and even things like digital signatures and things like that so there's sadly uh covert has accelerated the requirement for all this so has pushed us all down the same route to say right we really have to do something now rather than just the talking about it and so what what we're seeing happening is um is absolutely wonderful is engagement people are starting to work to get to come together more because the business requirement is there so that's the sort of kind of challenges I see that and the the cool the legal the trip framework around this is going to be quite complex because you've got all the different Regulators who have a history of managing and running their own regulation and schemes and somehow punitive measures some don't that needs to be realigned and needs to be realigned between all the different types of regulators and if you're looking within home buying and selling I go to an estate agent who is supervised by hmrc and National Training standards I go to a conveyancer who's regulated by CLC or it could be the SRA and then dealing with a mortgage intermediary and then I've got a mortgage lender you know all those different Regulators around it so that's one of the biggest hurdles and barriers is getting people to come together which are you know from our project you know we've got 10 the 10 legal regulators and um supervisors engaged in the project we've got eight the eight Financial Regulators engaged in the project the four government departments the number of Reliant parties and 19 identity providers and I think that's a great example of how this syndicated by people just coming together and just working together and say right we've got to really do something that is one of those biggest barriers is just getting people to come together because I think the understanding is there about the requirement behind the the regulation um and I think that's the biggest challenge yeah the the alignment of the different regulations that come together there are precedences of it in other countries uh some of our neighbors in European countries so we don't have to go far to look at how it has it has been done not how it can be done but how it actually has been done hopefully that answers your question so you can see yeah that was great it was a bit of a alphabet soup going on there so can I just um ask a little question about anti-money laundering because I think that's something that people will really does this project actually ensure that not everybody has to do their own um anti-money laundering checks or is it something where if someone has done it previously then you've only got to make sure that what's been done is up to date so there's been six months gone by or whatever you might then need to think about it but it's like this is the the key thing about it is to ensure that we build a trust and Reliance framework so for the consumer they only have to get their identity one done once and then that can be shared with the relying parties through the process and with the realignment of regulations it then means I can rely on someone else's identity assertion and that's okay I think what we have to be careful about is that this is not a lifelong digital identity that we're talking about this is identity that can be used for this transaction to the end of of the transaction now we have scenarios where um if your driving license for example is one day out of date or your passport is one day out of date most people a lot of organizations if you use that for identity will reject that because they'll say it's out of date but it's your passport and nothing's actually changed you are still the same person as you were yesterday when your past was like so things like gpg45 allow for that I think it's a six month period um than that so yeah it's about taking that one identity and being able to the trust framework around and the Reliance to be able to share that with various parties to use and trust and rely on that's really helpful thank you can you also give us a little bit of an indication about who's going to be providing the governance and accreditation for the finance sector um for this game um there's a number of ways that governance can be can be implemented a typical model is the creation of a not-for-profit organization supported by representatives from the sector or from the industry not just the sector from the industry so UK Finance we're looking to take on this role of governance and we would expect them to continue to be interested as a representative body in the sector and it could be that various representative bodies come together to create a joint body to oversee such a scheme um a key aspect here is to engage specific expertise to develop the scheme there are schemes out there like t-ski I'm not sure if you if you've heard of them that have been used to that was used in to verify days I'm looking at the governance Frameworks there but I think it's that's where it's going to have to come from it's going to come from those Regulators or representative bodies to to create an accreditation scheme around that that would then provide the governance around the sector for that and again that's where we see if there's an alignment of Regulation and standards it'll be easier to govern or you know the the governance around it would be a lot easier to manage and implement thanks Stuart okay do you think such a system can be properly secure and what will the framework and the scheme have to do to make um to give customers the confidence to allow the sharing of data between different organizations I think I I hope so if you said anything on his dancing because that's what you've got to believe um and I also think that um you know we've seen some terrible fraud cases um going around and anything we can do to make sure that that is stopped I mean I've I've had cases where people contact me and um they want to sell their buy to let not realizing somebody actually sold it three years ago um and cases like that so we really need to up our game if you like and this is a perfect opportunity I think to do it um I think I don't think there's such a problem getting the security side because there's a lot of very cleverer people out there I think the most important thing is getting this alignment coordination and trust between all of the parties and it goes back to what um Stuart says one of the things that we're finding now we're kind of really starting to have some fantastic conversations between everybody in the home moving sector is that um the way that certain things are developed so the handbook for example we're finding that there's things perhaps in the handbook that conflict and cause problems later down the line that nobody perhaps thought of with somebody else's regulation what we need to try and do is make sure that those things are much more aligned and then make sure they're in there obviously in in the consumer interest and um you know the amount of work that's going to go behind this is enormous but I think that that the trust side of things is something much more for the industry itself as to to trust each other and we don't have that yet you know lenders like to blame legal companies and surveyors legal companies love to blame the estate agents and complain about their fees and everybody else you know you'll get agents saying don't get a surveyor get a builder which is a terrible piece of advice and should never be given um and then the poor removal guys at the end nobody really has ever cared about that industry and the fact that they have to do ridiculous turnaround times and nobody's ever thought to ask them how how we could change the chain further up so that they don't have to become you know and I mean this sincerely from talking to people Mental Health Specialists on move day because people are tearing their hair out at four o'clock in the afternoon because they're sitting outside and the people indoors still haven't moved so um sort of really drawing this out the the consumers I think have much more trust in technology than we as an industry have trust in each other and for us to build that consumer trust actually it's our job to make sure that systems like this are implemented so that the consumer only has to do it once and everybody's happy to accept that somebody else has done it so for example I get very frustrated I always use a surveyor when I buy a home and I get really frustrated that A lender will not accept my survey um and that I therefore have to get an extra valuation and I don't want to upgrade from the the lender's offering because I'm I've lived where I live for 15 years I know the good surveyors in the area and I want to use them and for me that's in Better interest for the lender but there is this lack of trust that exists and that holds up I think delivering a good consumer service we're all very happy to accept a property mot from somebody that's trained for maybe six to eight weeks but seriously we're not happy to accept a survey from somebody that's trained for five years to do that that Ricks or rpsa member Etc and and we've got to learn the lessons from the lack of trust and the problems it causes now to make sure that when we introduce this this framework and the way that we do it it there is no trust problem between everybody that's the success the consumer will be delighted because at the moment to buy a seller home you've got to fill in 38 pages of A4 and answer 38 pages of A4 questions and a lot of that is duplicated we know with the work we're doing on the buying and selling property information form we've reduced that down to 14 pages but it's still 14 pages and that's a lot and we've got to make sure that the answers that everybody gives on those that information are everybody else will accept and that given from good data sources we're working on that and that applies exactly the same to the identity side so I actually think consumers aren't our problem here it's ourselves that are the issue um and that's what we've really got to make sure happens is this trust and this alignment of Stuart rightly says between The Regulators because that hasn't always happened to date Stuart did you want to come back on that yeah I'd like to build on that and I think okay this is absolutely right the the trust element and I think as well what's happened now is a scheme like this as well to help build that trust and because we have this history of lack of trust between sectors and that the surveying example is such a good one I can get a survey done but my mortgage lender still dictates that I need to get another survey report done why and but when we're looking at sharing of data our personal credentials about who we actually are there there's the the the decided this scheme actually is very secure and helps towards reducing off fraud for for the system and that's what the money lenders if I may call them that require the most because obviously they don't want to lend money to someone who's going to run off with it and also the solicitor conveyancer in the process they carry that liability if anything goes wrong so this is really important for their trust element so I think the use of government standards doesn't just cover identity verification but also the way esteem is operated to ensure higher levels of security to help build in the the legal trust framework you've got the emotional trust element but when it comes time is there's the technical legal get around it so the the use of strong customer authentication linked to strong identification identification provides high security and to give you an example that we had our first working group last Friday with hmrc the NAA natural trading standards and some of the estate agents and we were talking about authentication and trust and what I find particularly interesting there coming from the two main estate agents and these were ones in international state agency the other is a national one they're both requiring now uh facial recognition so just bringing in this as your biometric which for me was quite a big surprise because I haven't heard estate agents talking at that level of security and Trust I don't you know before so this is quite new so I think this whole security but it seemed that where there's a single proof of identity as well reduces the friction points and the weak points because if there's multiple identities taking place how can you trust different ones because there's so many going on you've got a chain as soon as you have a chain it's weak whereas if you have one you have an increased security and strength in that so what we're not talking about is um of us the consumer only gets one identity and that's shared with the different relying parties through the process we're talking about the identity providers are actually going to have to up their game and all of them start to improve their identity checks rather than all the various levels we've got just now so that the mortgage lender at the very end can actually trust on on that identity and the security elements of that identity and how the identity is actually shared through the process that's the next big part to to to work through so happen you know who's that identity gone through who's connecting it and who's controlling it and then who's consuming it at the end so there's also the question of the identity of the consumer of that identity so is that person in that mortgage lender does that person have the legal right to look at that full person's identity credentials so hopefully that kind of Builds on that can I just ask one further question around identity and this is sort of um obviously around sort of company purchases because obviously by tele is a you know huge part of the industry um and it's not any more sort of someone buying one extra property there are you know portfolio landlords and you know how do they fit into the whole process um well as we know landlords have to verify the identity of their tenants but they've also got other checks you know there's other checks that go behind that so it's going to be really really important for landlords and how they especially in the private rented sector and I'm sure that keep blood onto this as well but we've seen with work that we're doing with one of the local authorities how they're looking at this scheme to deal with the private rented sector in their Borough to check the identities not with just the tenants because obviously the tenants they're providing services to you and that determines eligibility but also then it's the landlords the identity of the landlords and we know around the AML regs there um for landlords who or estate agents as well who are dealing with landlords who I think is um is it making a profit of 10 000 Euros a month and where there has to be you know checks on there so I think this opens up if if we're clever about this within this project what we should be looking at is not just the home buying and selling process linked to an individual buying a property but it's also to the landlord who the professional landlord or to the person who's buying a couple of properties as part of their pension portfolio but then it also brings in the public sector social housing in terms of how they do this because people do move between social housing and private housing not a huge sector but this still issue there and then we've also seen our own properties forward in the social housing sector where people go on housing waiting lists where they're applying for multiple properties and in a place like London I think on right to buy you can get about 107 000 pound discount on a right to buy that's a very good business case to come out forward to get yourself onto a number of of waiting lists in a Borough and there is a great example of boroughs not working together and not sharing the information and then the mortgage lenders are trying to to deal with that because they'll be dealing with people the same person but with multiple identities apply for for the for the mortgages so that's okay if you've got more tab on that one uh yeah I think so interestingly I've seen Scotland we've got land and Wales we have landlords having to be registered so there are some uh good Inns if you like to um finding out if somebody is claiming that they're a buy to let landlord um but then they want to apply for a mortgage Etc but they're they're perhaps haven't got their registration things like that so there is a there is a good opportunity here to make sure that that that landlord is doing everything that they can uh legally and we know certainly although I'm not a massive fan of Licensing um from boroughs I think it's a it was it was right for some of the boroughs at the time but I think it's an outdated method now of um trying to rule the private rented sector particularly for hmos and we've come up with a much better scheme which is a requirement for a property mot in in our humble opinion on the lettings Industry Council which is the opposite of the home buying selling group um so for me anything that increases the amount of information and gets that identity checked from a vital portfolio landlord or even just an individual one is better for hmrc's purposes it's better for um the local authorities purposes um to make sure that we can do enforcement well because the failure in PRS at the moment is that the good guys are constantly penalized um for doing all the right things financially whereas the bad guys can get away with it on a daily basis because there's such a lack of enforcement and all we've done is introduced over the last 20 years lots of rules and regulations including licensing but where I am in Nottingham for example I think it's cost 10 million pounds worth of money to get landlords licensed and so far they've issued well the last count was about 417 licenses out of tens of thousands so this is not helping tenants whereas actually coming back to something like this if those landlords have been their identity has been much more carefully checked and verified that could lead to have this knock-on lovely knock-on effect of making sure that enforcement can be dealt with better and that we can and that hmrc gets the money it deserves because it knows very well that it's not getting all the money from the private rented sector it should do so that could be a real positive thanks very much uh Stuart this is just one of many schemes that are being drawn up um is there going to be significant interoperability between this scheme and for example a similar scheme for consumers who wish to become investors so the one the keys to success or something like this is interoperability between the different sectors so you're absolutely right the dcms as I said at the beginning are trying to develop a policy for UK PLC and for those of us working on in our different sectors verticals have to ensure about interoperability so we're really uh happy with this project we've got engagement now with people who are actually doing work in the finance sector and they're doing for example Gap analysis within the finance sector and this is fortunate for us they've seen this as a one of their big gaps so what you've got are different people running projects and we're all starting to engage with each other because whilst we're all interested in just aren't vertical we need to look at the interoperability that goes between the schemes and that that's going to be really key otherwise you're then you're still faced with the scenario that the consumer has to still get their identity done for home buying and selling so that's fine and then they want to go into the and then they have to go to another identity check you know so we've seen uh gambling have been working on this for quite a number of years but they've only been focused on proof of age and proof of funds that's all they really need or we've had alcohol which is really a proof of age really that's all they mean um and then you've got it in the finance sector or I'm dealing with my lawyers on a particular transaction just like they've been my lawyers since 2007 I still had to go through an identity check with them again but they already know who I am but I've already got an identity that I've done recently for something else why can't I use the same identity that friction so the interoperability bit I think is potentially going to be the biggest challenge moving forward as each of the verticals start to develop their identity schemes and how we align those to ensure interoperability there's absolutely no reason why each sector doesn't have their own identity scheme because they need to because they've all got different regulations and requirements and business requirements and they deal with consumers in different ways when they're onboarding consumers for for their products or services but that interoperability bit is going to be really key and I think where this is the role of government I don't know if you saw Matt warman's MSM MPS paper that came out a couple of days just last week and if I can just quote from it the role of government in this is is is going to be absolutely critical um the UK government has a vital role to play in setting the regulatory standards and liabilities for digital identity services and it must support the creation of a fully functional digital identity Marketplace across across both public and private sectors so government's role in this is really really important I think we're starting to see now with dcms policy and the way that they're approaching this I think I confident and again that warm fluffy feeling inside that we can't achieve that interoperability now and it goes back to sadly covert has has accelerated this requirement and just brought it Forward by a number of years so I think that's sort of quite interesting now to sort of see just how fast things have moved um so we've seen a lot of firms move away from weight signatures in the last uh nine months which you know would have taken several years to go through so hopefully now we've got momentum from uh various parts of the process so my sort of final question to you both is how can UK Finance members contribute to implementing this project what would you like to see the lenders do in order to make all of this work better she'll start with Kate yeah talk come and talk to us um if I I'd be so slightly honest we've had some good engagements on the lending side on the home buying selling group but not enough um and it's we're not trying to um uh we're not a power organization nobody ever gets paid to do what we do we ask the only hard thing you've got to do is when you come to the home buying and selling group we ask you to leave all your agendas at the door and we just ask you to focus on the consumer and getting it right we don't want to step on anybody's toes with that's not what we're about it is all about you know what if you want to change something for the better if there's something in the home buying and selling process that you hate and that might be the legal industry there might be Agents come and tell us come and talk to us about that and um we will we will basically put working through it together and we will find a way to make sure we can move things to a better place because the better we all work together then the better we can make it for consumers we're never going to get consumer trust unless we start trusting each other the only way we trust each other is by talking to each other sharing our frustrations and I'll tell you now one I think this point last year I was thinking oh my word what have I done I've opened up a huge can of worms and I don't know how I'm going to deal with it and actually um at the start of covert it was very difficult to get everybody together but then by May or you know we were producing guidance for the whole home moving sector you know and so that we can open in time we had no idea it was going to be so quick but that meant on the day that the market opened uh when I think um amhcrg's advice for home moving came out 11 o'clock that day by five o'clock we had all the home moving guidance from everybody from lender to removal company which was is all consistent the sectors then could go off and do their own guidance in line with their regulation but we knew that everything we'd put forward was all still okay and what we then is we had three consumer checklists for the key things that they needed to do and the reason for going through that and explaining that is that that the only way we will get identity right is not by people sitting on the sidelines throwing stones when it's done it's by coming in and telling us that idea is rubbish because of this and we don't think it's going to work because of this and then people like myself saying that's great but you know what that's going to be an absolute pain in the neck from a consumer perspective for this reason and that reason and that's what we do um and that's what we're good at and it's starting to work we've shown it on guidance we've produced a pledge recently um I think that as a home moving sector we deliver so much the economy that's been recognized for the first time this year that if we can all start working together wouldn't it be lovely in two or three years time to have the smoothest of home moving processes not just for consumers it's never going to be stress-free because they're moving for a massively life stressful reason typically but wouldn't it be nice for your staff to be able to come in each day and love moving people and love Fridays rather than eight Fridays for completion nightmares that is in our grasp but it's only by engaging now with the work that students and the rest of the team are doing on the idea identity that we need your input we need your expertise we need you to tell tell us what's wrong what will work and what won't work or what other little things that we could do that would make such a massive difference and it's just it is just that power of talking and engaging um so that would be my plea talk to us help us get this right we can't do this without you um and we don't want to do this without lenders we really want you to be involved so please get involved this is a massive massive opportunity for everybody what can we do to help I'd concur with everything Kate says there you know it's so true and I think something like home buying and selling for those that percentage of the population that go through we all experience it and by God do don't we love telling a good story about our home moving and selling experience and how well went or didn't go or whatever unfortunately we only hear about the bad ones and and that comes out quite a lot but it is something that we all actually understand in very simple terms we all know about home buying sound you know um so it does impact us all and that creates a platform for us all to just come together and and what this project has demonstrated and we are demonstrating is great is just by getting everyone together we can achieve something quite hopefully Monumental here because this project will deliver the first UK trust framework within no buying sector in the UK aligned to dcms policy that will create a template for other sectors to use and share because that's what this this is a publicly funded project so it's there to be shared and taken up by other sectors should they want to so having that courage to say okay you've done it can you give us a bit of advice here or give us the because either this will come a rule book for people to use an operations manual and that means someone from the finance sector or the gambling sector or whatever can take that rule book and use that you know we've you're asking about how do we get people from UK Finance members it's just you're already engaged in off our financial regulatory group and it's getting that message out to your your members and even indeed at some point in time we will need a working group because very importantly we want to bypass the regulator and get to the people on the coal face because it's the people on the cold face that give you the slight little nuances and differences from what The Regulators might say to say Well I'm know the regulator says that but the reality is this is the problem we've got so that engagement would be fantastic if we can get that engagement from the UK finance and and other regulates like the FCA would be a very good one as well you know because of the the regulation that goes rounded so and I think you know we've seen what dcms came out with when they produced their report a few months ago the number one case study for the UK economy is home buying itself so that's how important this sector is to the economy and it does cross sectors doesn't it it goes from the estate agency to the legal sector to the money sector and to the consumer it affects so many different people and we've seen that in the complexity of some of the working groups that we've we've put together for this project we're having to removing different Regulators between working groups just simply because of the complexity of this group so keeping everyone working together and that engagement suit is is really really important for us well we are looking forward to working with you as this project develops I think it's very exciting project and I think a lot of people are going to get a lot of benefit out of it so I'm really hoping that it will sort of Move Along swiftly and uh usefully um I hope so too thanks I think we're going to be drawing this now to a bit of a close um I'd like to thank Kate and shirt very much for their very engaging discussion uh this morning um and I'd like to thank everyone who joined us um today just a reminder that the digital Innovation Summit 2020 is running between the second and 20th of November and is free for UK Finance members and Associate members the wide variety of content available during the subject during the Summit is made available online every day during the summit and so view the agenda page every day and set yourself some reminders every day fresh content will be available to all delegates and we welcome you engaging with us as much as possible I hope you can join us for our final session in the mortgage technology stream which takes place on Thursday the 19th of November it's discussing what will vulnerability look like in 2021 the financial sector has had a long duty of care to protect those customers who've experienced financial difficulty with the pandemic bringing this issue to the Forefront as never before with the landscape of financial difficulty expanding and intensifying as a result of an economic downturn this panel will review what the priorities are for protecting vulnerable customers Beyond 2020 I hope you can join us thank you very much everyone and see you all soon bye [Music]