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foreign [Music] to this EU clusters talk on the transition pathway for construction how to green and digitalize the ecosystem that means concrete and actionable transition plans for construction why does this matter it's because construction is the second largest industrial ecosystem for the European Union in economic terms after retail it's employing around 25 million people 1.1 trillion Euros a year in revenues that's nearly 10 percent of the European Union's GDP so a major major part of our economy here in Europe This EU clusters talk is a bi-weekly event by the European cluster collaboration platform the eccp on behalf of DG grow at the European commission Digi grows the internal Market industry entrepreneurship and smes by the way agenda let's take a look at that news from Martina uh then we'll have a video and a presentation and the European commission its take on the transition pathway describing what that is a panel discussion uh with your all of your q a and make sure you get that in there and then we'll have funding opportunities Tech tips on how do we get those questions out well look at the bottom of your screen you should see a q a button at the bottom there's also lots of um uh chat that you can watch uh there's a lot of good discussion going on back and forth on that and you can also raise your hand there's a button down there for to raise your hand and we can call on you and you can actually go on turn your camera on and and talk with us uh so uh let's see hashtag euclusters talks keep that in mind hashtag euclusters talks you can see at the bottom of that slide for anything you'd like to tweet on and please do and this is recorded for playback so keep that in mind let's start with news from the European cluster collaboration platform with Martina fumagali a team member of the European cluster collaboration platform buongiorno Martina good morning and thank you very much Chris welcome everybody to today's cluster talk uh we get to start with news uh from the ectp uh we recently launched a new registration process to allow participants to allow our users uh to have a easier and more user-friendly experience on our platform this new process has been designed to make it easier for users to sign up edit and start using the available services among the Novelties of this registration courses is the differentiation between flow and standard types of users depending on the richness of information shared while creating or editing your profile um among the new functions that Pro users will have their disposals we have extensive industry info detailed organizational kpis the information on areas such as internalization and digitalization you can check out the manual we have we have shared the link in the chat and another interesting tool that we recently introduced only for pro users is the trend Universe a strategic foresight instrument for EU clusters organization this instrument instrument will allow producers to better understand future Trends in all different ecosystems and to see the impact and try to foresee the impact of these Trends on their cluster organization um here as well you can check the link in the chat and we also provided an explanation video on the CCP explaining how this will work and how a producer can benefit from this we have also recently opened a second call for applicants for the second cluster booster Academy cluster booster Academy is a four day training for cluster Managers from coming from all over Europe and the event will take place online on the 6th and 7 June and in person on 21st and 22nd September in touring Italy uh in addition to Virtual and in-person training sessions classroom managers will have the chance to have individual coaching sessions and in-person training even after the academy Martina on the on the backup there on that personal training uh in Torino um what kind of people turn up to that and what you know is that also a potential networking sort of situation definitely uh it's a very useful opportunity for cluster managers not only to gain uh more experience to gain new skills but also to network between themselves so yes it's definitely great networking opportunity okay great excellent last but not least we have the public buyers Community platform which has been launched by the European commission as a strategy to improve public procurement by bringing together public authorities and other stakeholders this platform has been made for individual public procurers looking to booster their purchasing power for person in upper management or who hold political office looking to get information for suppliers and Industry wishing you more to know more on this EU public procurement for the existing Network which are in need of a common space to guarantee cohesion and for researcher groups seeking to gain insight into public procurement and with this I'll get back to you Chris thank you very much Gracia Martina thank you we'll come back to you later with the funding opportunities so stay tuned uh yeah let's move on to our our usual block here from our own correspondent cluster Eco construction there's a video and then there's going to be a presentation after that so let's hear this on a video on ecoconstruction cluster of house let's hear it [Music] thank you hi everybody I'm Olivier communication officer of the Eco building cluster cluster ecoconstriction and behind me you can see our head office which is very nice and very original building it was built two years ago with logs and straw this is very nice to work in it we will see it in a few seconds hi I'm Julia so what are we doing here we have a partnership with volanya and for certain project with the EU to promote the Eco building sector bio-based material sector in Warrior for intense this building was built within the Northwest European project upstroke the goal is to create a healthy and comfortable Aina climate in buildings and reduce CO2 in the same time the use of wood straw in combination with Clay as this effect this is a piece of the wall of the building we have here the outside logs the straw and here the inside log and the inside log this is also the finish wall the EU abstra project is to show that we can use this kind of building for private or public building like ctOS for example or schools or nursery and this building is presented every day to public or private or public people like politicians engineer students or architect for example it was for the you European App Store project and now another example of European finished Mission group so groov is a project of different developing greenhouses on the top of buildings in order to benefit from the Lost Heat and the Heat of the building to generate exchanges between the Heat and the building and to reduce CO2 there is one in Germany which is built with a natural material with hemp concrete wood the production is ongoing in all the all the greenhouses built in this in this project which works so it works yeah one of our mission is to Lobby public authorities and one of our recent success is bio-based material if people choose to use this product with this official label to insulate their house for example they receive extra insulation bonus from the authorities this was just a little summary about her work thank you to the European clusters collaboration platform to invite us thank you everybody and see you see you [Music] merci beaucoup fascinating to see the wood straw and Clay being used for construction materials that's what this this talk is all about is how can we do more of that um let's move on to a um a live presentation a quick presentation from meta building The Meta building project with the gelma Adele gelma you are Deputy deck director General Deputy General director of Nova Tech and I understand can I congratulate you already that you're you are the future ahead of meta Building Association is that true well I'm on online I'm a candidate to to yeah to to to be the head of that Association here okay it's not decided yet but this I am I am candidate and I'm pushing hard to move I I am the original coordinator of this two projects right okay I wish you luck I wish you luck on your candidates thank you thank you I anticipated all right she's um she might join us as well I guess Claudia is um she did already here I am yes hello Claudia all right so uh this might be a part of I will leave it to both of you to uh to make the presentation okay thank you very much so if okay so very very quickly these are two Horizon 2020 projects so one universal project and one um oi TV so projects about open Innovation testbed and we will have a glimpse here of how we can structure the European construction sector Innovation ecosystem using the outcomes of this project so next please so as I said before two election 2020 project here you have it uh so this in 13 or so we have we got funding to directly distribute to companies so smes in a Cascade funding scheme and the idea here is to do Innovation cross-sector and Innovation with the construction at the center and then other industrial sectors of Technologies like additive manufacturing nature-based Solutions digital industry uncirculating and recycling this project is finishing but it was a very nice experience where basically the name is metability because we are doing metaclastering I will explain more on that in very shortly the other project is better building Labs so it's a network of testing facilities to help Innovation on the topic of the building envelope and we are reusing them same methodology and basically also the same open Innovation digital platform that we created in metability so there's a lot of countries participating and so Target 13 countries next please so here are the countries that are covered and in each one of these countries we are doing a meta clustering actions so what is metaglass international I will explain on the case of France and who we are coming from France so next please so in in every country the basis of it is Innovation Network ecosystem as you see there so we need of those countries we are scanning The Innovation landscape of each country so we identifying actors and one of the most important factors there are clusters because in clusters you'll find SMS so we have identified the smes and the other actors next please so here you are if you have a snapshot of construction clusters ecosystem in France so you have a lot of classes on there next please so the metaclastic relaxation action is basically identifying them connecting them the the idea of a meta cluster is to gain uh momentum to gain critical mass in order to help companies smes go International so we are doing this in France next please so here you have the connection more please here it's very important for smes that cannot do research by themselves in general to have help from rtos so Technology Centers like we are and these are other Technology Centers in in landscape of France next please so more connections this is the idea we link also the companies so big companies are also part of the loop by Circle promoting with a very big Association and and fund uh also working with with novatec and connected of course with the ectp which is the European construction technology platform uh so basically the idea here is metaglustering connecting everything and to do this we have developed a digital platform which is metability.com and then I pass the floor to Claudia to explain the following thank you great thank you thank you very much I'm happy to talk you through the digital open Innovation platform called meta building uh this platform wants to be the meeting point of a new wide Innovation ecosystem that has already started as Sherman has explained in the the two projects met the building and met the building Labs as you can see uh it's a platform on several levels it has a European landing page and on the right you can see all the countries that already have set up their National landing pages in order to bring together the national ecosystem ecosystems as showed by azharma before um you can see a quite good distribution and this will increase because we are have just started now the the sign up campaign so uh this platform not only offers a meeting place but it offers tools for smes and other actors that want to do Innovation or showcase their Innovation products and services but it also offers tools for clusters in order to help them to work better together to integrate the different actors and also to work across clusters we will see that next please The Meta building project has circled around the construction sector that and has been paired with other sectors that we think are sometimes more Innovative that the construction sector and have the potential to bring Innovation to the construction sector which are the additive manufacturing sector the Europe the can you please please go back the recycling sector so uh Recycling and circular economy but also a green roofs and wolves which are represented by efb in this case next please um on as I said the platform helps to promote uh or find products and services each company or other actor Innovation actor can promote for free um his products and services that he has for the construction sectors use it for the construction sector um this is also a good um good base where to do technology watch and and market watch because there you see what's going on in Europe and what are the latest Innovations next please and of course you also can find collaboration Partners not only for uh projects but also to do business this is also free it's uh you can find partners for European projects and you can also find the business partners or other partners that you would need to do Innovation next please um this platform has been developed within the meta building project it has become a product it's it's called clusterly in in the form of a product and like this this product can be applied to other sectors as well we are using it currently with our Flagship clients um that are already using cluster leads so the meta building project and meta building ecosystem itself pdta a construct and innovate Ireland and the ectp and it will be used in the future for the build for people Network that yeah portable people Network that is being set up um yeah okay next please once again uh registering is free for all using the cluster management tool is not free this depends on the functionalities you want to have um but showcasing your uh entity your company your RTO your other type of innovation actor also if you were a business person business Angel you can show yourself in the platform it's for free and yeah try it out and become a part of our ecosystems thank you great thank you very much Claudia thank you to gentleman I hope at least one of you can stay on uh with us during the rest of the uh this uh this cluster talk uh for any questions uh that anybody would like to ask you um and and look in the chat uh all of you there is more information on how to find uh more more information on the The Meta building uh project uh there are links to in there for for more information uh let's move on to uh the uh the European commission and talking about the transition pathway for construction Electra papadaki uh Team coordinator uh DG internal Market industry entrepreneurship smes DG grow as we had said um at the European Commission Now Electra good morning I understand you have to leave at 9 15 is that right 915 CET yes indeed uh thank you very much for the introduction and good morning so so we'll keep that in mind and um and uh so if there are any questions for Electra we want to get them uh as quickly as we can and uh interesting presentation um on building blocks for this um for for this idea of um of a transition pathway for construction um Let's uh let's take a look at it Electra thank you very much grace and uh as I said again good morning I'm very happy to be here with you uh in the past version of the cluster talks uh I present to you what we were planning to do with the transition pathway so I'm happy now to to tell you what we actually proposed uh in this uh in this policy document in this roadmap for the future of construction I was happy also to save their presentations before me and what uh people uh entrepreneurs and innovators and people from the ground report being challenges and opportunities for construction so I will try a bit to to link with what we are doing here in European level so in terms of structure of the transition pathway we we decided to to build your our work around six building blocks and in each of these six building blocks we tried to to analyze and propose solutions for key topics for construction and the first building block is about competitiveness this is a very important building block for clusters specifically because we look also into the role of networks in supporting smaller uh micro or small companies on the ground so and I invite you specifically to to look into this if you ever decided to read a transition pathway because we also tried there to recognize the role of clusters in in what is competitiveness for construction then the building block to we find skills and talent and everything that has to do with attracting retaining and empowering people in uh in the built environment and construction sectors uh building block number three is about the neighboring framework so what does construction mean to thrive this is our main question in this chapter and I think maybe this is also an important one because I noticed in the presentation from the echo construction cluster if I say it correctly that uh there is a really an exercise of convincing authorities of training engineers and Architects to use new materials so there excuse me we're trying also to to say what needs to be done in terms of policy and legal framework for construction to embrace innovation there is bringing block number four on research and Innovation and Technology self-explanatory as as a topic we have a building block about finance and funding and how we can Channel money basically in construction in National level as well and lastly we have a building block about the safe and fair built environment where we're looking into the result of the construction process basically the built environment or buildings and how we can have better housing for Citizens and safer housing so if I can pass on to the next thank you very much so for its painting blog uh we are trying to analyze what is happening the state of play describe the framework and give also visibility to some initiatives either European level National level local industrial and others and proposed actions so we try to find what it needs to to be done from now and in the next years for construction to be more digital Greener more resilient and the actions are actions that are to be taken by the young its member states so public authorities but also researchers industry and others our time frame our main time frame is 2030 but there are actions that are described that refer to the very short term so from now to 2025 roughly speaking and there are some other actions that go beyond 2030 even and in the next slide and I would like to to explain a bit more of what we find in the different building blocks so as I said competitiveness is particularly important for uh for clusters and in general businesses uh because there we also have taken the task to analyze how Construction in Europe Compares with construction ecosystems around the world so with economies like U.S China whatever strategic dependencies uh what all of these uh disturbances caused either by covet or the energy prices or the invasion of Ukraine so we have tried to to paint really the picture there there is a reference in construction startups if there is really an exponential growth as we expected what are the measures taken by different countries um so again we describe this as well Nest works as I said to you um so this is basically the competitiveness building block and in the next slide you can see that we expect industry also to to take a series of actions in order to increase competitiveness addressing all these dependencies that I that I mentioned by diversifying suppliers materials products supporting local materials and building techniques investing in technology and also we describe a series of action of what EU and the member states and authorities should do in order to support industry towards this course next slide please uh in terms of skill setup and Thailand there our our job is a bit different as you may know skills and education is the competency of the member states so they're the role of the EU is to to monitor to coordinate to give incentives and resources to the industry or to the member states in order to do better and this is what happens in terms of skills there are funding packages and and a budget in order to support the coordination actions and the Erasmus under the fact for skills so we describe a bit what is the image there and in the next slide please in terms of actions uh we of course ask different industrial associations to join the pack for skills because there is already platform script for construction and succeed in their commitments and also work on diversity construction is a sector that is uh particularly specific on diversity it is not uh is not performing very well on diversity and also in terms of skills we are also making a reference to training public authorities and public administrators on digitalization on all of these critical aspects that we described because it is important also that the public sector the public administration is ready for a Greener and more digital construction ecosystem and next slide please the enabling framework as I said this is about the policy and the legal framework uh also the digital framework uh because there are a lot coming up in terms of artificial intelligence data all of this is a is a very complex situation under which construction companies have to operate and next slide in the enabling framework I may say that we expect more of course to be done from the side of the authorities but also companies can uptake some of the u-level initiatives especially in terms of green we can they can engage more on circular practices use levels and other assessing Frameworks to report in a uniform way how sustainable are the different buildings and construction that they are in charge and of course as I said it's on the authorities to have the infrastructure ready for construction to become Greener and more digital a next slide please a research innovation technology I think some is something that you might know very well in clusters you have uh integrated different aspects and some of you also research and Innovation uh outside clusters though uh the situation is a bit more difficult we we see that research and Innovation don't pass to Market so easily in construction uh so we again describe some important developments uh we describe what is being done through Horizon Europe uh life other other funding instruments and where we see the main gaps next slide please um there of course there is a lot to be done further also by industry to participate more and help develop standards and something we got in the consolidation from researchers and academics and innovators is that they expect the industry to also fundraisers themselves not to let everything on on public spending and please next slide on funding uh you can you can proceed because the time is a bit limited on funding you can imagine by yourself that sometimes it's difficult for small companies to navigate the funding opportunities even if there are some so again we will if there's some recommendations to member states and lastly there is the building block on Fair Housing and some aspects on how we can make buildings safer again something that refers more to the work of the commission with member states um I think there is one more slide one more please okay and the last point I want to make is that asynamics of the transition pathway you can find already some masculine industrial commitments that we have collected that correspond to the actions that we have described above and in general as you may know from the work of other ecosystems we start now a very important work of collecting what industry authorities research and Academia is willing to do in order to contribute to the transition pathway from now on so that would be all from my side back to you Chris thank you very much and there's a quick question actually uh from um I just want to ask you quickly uh from from Claudia actually is there a link to the new European Bauhaus Academy uh to this okay of course yes there is a link to the new European bow house in general we take the new European Bauhaus and the initiatives like the miss van dero Award of the European award for architecture we consider them as contributors to to building block one about competitiveness we believe that they elevate the level of architecture in Europe and this is an element of competitiveness and in terms of of the academy we need to see exactly how the academy will materialize and it's different hubs but the academy certainly is a contributor to skills and it's also covering a part of upskilling that is not so present to other initiatives right now upskilling for circular materials for Bill based materials and others so it is it is there it is part of the picture of course okay very good thank you uh again uh Electra and uh stay with us as long as you can if there are any other questions for Elektra please do put them into the Q a uh and um yeah now it's time to move on uh to also keep in mind that any of these presentations are also in addition to the recording of this uh this this uh cluster talk uh you can see on the website uh for the cluster collaboration platform uh any of these presentations because some of these are uh have a lot of information to absorb uh let's move on to the club to the debate Pablo sais let's start with you Chief architecture officer at wudea uh and I might mentioned you were at the cluster collaboration uh in March uh it's Sweden and you made some proposals there uh so welcome Pablo and if you can uh give us a bit of feedback on on First on what uh Electra presented yeah hello hello Chris and thank you dextra for the presentation so um I don't know if uh to make the first the feedback about the the transition pathways and here first maybe first if if if I can make an introduction about who we are please do yeah no so Buddha it's a it's a kind of a startup it's we also we are founding we have a 1 million uh to to start to work we are like a construction company a newborn contraction company so we we are for digitalized uh based on lean construction also and base it on building with component what we call it here in Spain industrialized construction or maybe it's a modern methods of construction as as snow in in Europe so we're working in a basis of dfma and we are seeking to make a affordable housing aligned with the main interest of the fighting against uh global warming climate change Etc so they we are working on uh on both engineering Booth because I was saying that it's a a nice really nice solution for all the problems that we are having now and so with the transition Pathways we're very happy see that at least we have a roadmap for fighting these elements and but we are a little bit sorry but we because we think that it's not it's not moving or it's not going as quick as within that we need So In from from our point of view this transition pathway it's it's quite focused in the building industry in renovation I think that there is a big impact in renovation or in renovating all the all the construction [Music] housing that we already have and we make a big effort at least in Spain with the codes to minimize the CO2 emissions during the operational life of the buildings of the new buildings yeah so I understand that we have to go for like system buildings but I I've seen very little in what it's about new construction and it's very important that we don't forget about these elements and if if we go to the global ABC roadmap from the United Nations I think they they have more interest in this thing about a the importance of the new construction and the embodied carbon of materials so I think if we don't find this from this very beginning we are losing an opportunity and uh and maybe we are not playing the focus in all the aspects we need to seek or we need to fight in construction industry right so I guess these these discussions through the collaboration platform are important to help to stimulate that yeah I mean uh yeah can you say anything more about what what you proposed in at the cluster collaboration event in March in Sweden can you give us one proposal that you made one idea that you had yeah of course yeah we were we were working with a Jorge Lopez Conde that his uh like the promoter of the Clusters from the European Mo house so it's a it's a cluster clusters that they are aligned to the principles of an European Bauhaus and our proposal was to make the new European house uh it will be a kind of pilot prototype for housing for the uh for the commitments of an European Bauhaus and it will be based on these principles of low carbon low emissions in the in the whole life cycle of the of the Construction so it will be like using these principles of circular economy uh seeking from the same thing that we are seeking in Buddha of affordable housing and affordable sustainable housing So based in dfma for circular Economy based on working with the engineering board working with a high efficiency energy low emissions housing and the idea is to make this kind of first Lighthouse building for this affordable and sustainable housing and also looking for make something for the Ukrainian renovation after this disaster and Madness when it's finished so it's like uh making a prototype of the New York European sustainable and affordable house beautiful inclusive and residence sustainable and everything great excellent oh well thank you very much please stay on with us uh director of the technology enabled construction cluster Tech um you know I I guess I'd like to get some feedback from you from uh Electra's presentation but also uh if you can talk about um the the importance of digitalization uh because we see that it is rather slow in in construction how do we speed that up yes thank you very much for the invitation and for the questions um I've been in I've been close to the whole process of consultation uh that the commission um ran for the pathways transition and I think it was a very um as thorough as possible consultation process given the given the scope of it um and um I um my feedback is is positive for sure I think it's a it's a very well done work and thank you for all this effort and for involving the the private uh sector in all these discussions and um I I did notice that um um most of most of the things that have been discussed in in various consultations were taken into the into the scenarios into the pathway so this is a this is this is good definitely um the the building blocks um uh I I can clearly see that the building blocks are quite logical however the um the the amount of work that needs to be to be done in the in the next years is huge and a lot of these things have to be done in parallel so it's not going to be easy to uh take this into reality uh there are many challenges and I think that the challenges that we meet at National level in our cluster with our members in our in our local industry are similar to a certain extent to the overall challenges in other countries however Europe is not the the whole sector in Europe is not homogeneous so there are certain particularities and specificities um in in some regions of Europe and um the way we focus our work in different regions of Europe has to be different and maybe this is not entirely reflected in the pathways uh to transition um there's a general approach the general approach is good most of those things are equally important for all the regions in Europe however there are differences in the focus we need to to have in in these regions the digitalization for instance is critical as you said and obviously we consider that because the whole cluster is focused on digitalization and fostering digitalization in the sector um however the digitalization will I think will also or might also um increase the gaps in this already very fragmented industry because as the as also the our the documents States this industry has 99 of the company's smes but almost 37 of the companies in the in the sector are micro Enterprises from our experience the micro Enterprises are very unlikely to get digital without a very serious support both financial support but which is not easy which is not easily secure it's not easy to secure that for micro Enterprises it's easy to do that for smes but for micro Enterprises it's a big challenge and also um the know-how the know-how transfer is very difficult for micro Enterprises because they're not willing actually to get digital they have no they don't have the resources not only in terms of money but also in terms of time because that's a challenge is there anything that your your Tech cluster is is doing to facilitate that to encourage that yes what what we think is uh is possibly um an anchor to to tackle this this problem this challenge um we find it in the you know a digital Innovation house we think that the digital Innovation hubs might be a good solution and a good destination for micro Enterprises however they're also mostly engaging with smes because it's easier so there is Need for specific uh uh for specific um measures within the framework of the digital Innovation hubs that are totally or completely or exclusively uh distance for micro Enterprises because otherwise the speed the the smes in particular the larger resumes are going to speed up their digitalization and they're they're actually Champions most of of the largest semis in Romania are already digital and I think is the case in all over Europe smaller smes will will go fast enough because there will be track tracked by they will be attracted by the larger smes that they work with and the micro Enterprises are going to to be left behind however the micro Enterprises are critical for the sector because they are the ones that attract uh more easily the workers it's easier for them to to um uh to hold on to workers and and uh qualify workers on site right so the more the human resource uh challenge is also a very critical challenge in uh uh in the in the sector right we are part of the Innovative digital Innovation Hub already and we we are doing this kind of work uh both with smes and micro Enterprises but like I said for micro Enterprises it seems to be a very very serious challenge okay uh and uh the second thing that I think might help us all would be to increase uh to increase the focus on um experience exchanges between clusters and and uh is in particular between clusters and construction because there's not enough of that especially in the digitalization uh aspect in a second yeah okay thank you radhika and and do stay with us uh Victor Ferreira president of sustainable habitat cluster in Portugal welcome um I I guess you know we we we saw that that great video showing about sustainable habitats and uh we heard uh more from Pablo about his his proposal can you build on that yeah thank you very much thank you for the invitation it's a pleasure to be here it's quite interesting presentations we've seen from Electra and uh yeah the impressions of my colleagues in this panel so yeah we are very much into it uh as a cluster in well in Portugal but also without with our partners throughout Europe uh during all these years uh sustainable habitat cluster is a cluster that is concerned with the buildup of a power habitat as much sustainable as possible and well we have been trying to link with other initiatives from Mississippi to to the more recently to the European house as a member and and also trying to connect with other strategic Partnerships with not only with the construction classes as radico's saying but also with the other cluster from other value chains uh so the cluster is very much into focus in looking at people in their habitat so and I try to make it more sustainable and healthy to live it so basically we have these four areas of intervention that is with the with the development of sustainable products for our industry and we have heard something like we have been involved and in a previous intervention uh referring to Pablo as I think referring to this issue of CO2 emissions and the the rate we are progressing which is clearly uh very very very small right uh speeds towards that we are especially concerned in our cluster with the embodied CO2 I think Pablo has referred to the to the to the use of the during the lifetime of a building which is an important component but it starts with the embodied the CO2 and the way the Architects and Engineers combine materials to get the carbon neutral solution so we are very much into that appealing to our members that have uh that we have essentially materials producers person in our network but also other people from other suppliers of other goods and Equipment swag yabitat from privatization to whatever green roofs and we have seen an intervention today and this this combination the wise combination of of materials and products will be able and this is the role of those of that beautiful group of Architects and Engineers that conceive our not only Rehabilitation but but also new construction which is going at the accelerated Pace because we are looking to the world and not only the Europe and there is a lot of new construction coming into the server we we feel that we are stimulating our members to develop solutions that can meet these requirements this twin position requirements of being a circular low carbon uh reversible Solutions so this this and but at the same time competitive Solutions with the market because the market is always complaining about how expensive is that yeah well exactly that that was my next question actually you know because uh there is an affordable housing initiative yeah yeah uh can can we talk about affordability how are you making this more affordable for the average uh homeowner or want to be homeowner well I want to be able let's say we are not making anything but our our members are trying to find to fight through a very competitive market and the market that is uh sometimes difficult to change but people today more recently in the recent years are very much alert so sustainability is clear a market value that that peoples are open to it and but the solutions that are being developed they must meet these fundamental requirement of economic sustainability and being competitive at least with others whatever language that will prove that we have to look to products and solutions from the life cycle point of view in order to consider not just comparing initial prices because we don't do that with other with other Goods that people that we buy so we should we should think clearly about that then this is fundamental to achieve the collaboration with other with other EU clusters we are linked in a series of uh the Strategic Partnerships with with others through European projects which has been very important initiatives of eccp or european cluster conference and a fantastic medium to to to to to so we can discuss that we have a meeting with aqua construction cluster plan for my in in Portugal so it's this kind of initiatives that allow us to to to to to search for these goals and I think I would like to leave this idea I think that we are doing that in Portugal where the there are two things that that seems very important in terms of the digital transition also we are linked in a digital lab in the central region of Portugal we are coordinating it with other three Portuguese classes so this is an important initiative in going green also and but but also uh something that is very important apart from the effort of companies to develop products and and the cities also that we have some members that are some cities as our members of the cluster and they use them as test beds for for the implementation of this of these Solutions I think one important thing is the green procurement I mean the presence in this uh the way cities accept their projects the way uh the the public procurement motivates in a certain direction this this is a very important tool that can really change things and not only the the final green procurement something that you are working also it's for new Solutions which is we have a task force here in Portugal with the Innovation agency and and some other Public public agency uh concerned with the Innovation public procurement so if the solution is not there to be able to motivate the appearance of Green Solutions so we are working on this green procurement issues from these two two sides the final the existing products and the the products that need Innovation to to to come into market so this is basically what we have been doing here Victor thank you very much uh let's see if you can Victor very quickly there's a question are you linked to uh ptpc what is that ptpc that this is another technological platform that appeared some years after our cluster so our cross was born in 2007 and uh but uh I of course I know them I know written more and uh I know that uh they have uh also uh some initiatives we are also members of ectp the European president platform since 2011. so we are doing we were not directly it's another another Association we are the oldest cluster here but uh but yes we we know them and okay all right good and and uh that there please uh send in all your questions anyone listening uh any other questions put it into uh the Q a or the chat either one is fine I'm watching both uh let's move on uh thanks very much Victor let's move on to Zoe uh butopulu coordinator of intelligence solutions for xero and positive energy building in Thessaloniki welcome Zoe I I just you know mentioning I guess a lot of people know but just to remind that 40 percent of EU energy is in buildings buildings use it and uh and there's also this um emissions trading system that is going to be expanded to buildings I believe that could give a bit of a push to what you're trying to do right Zoe exactly exactly and taking the consideration that uh construction worldwide that thing gives us like three billion tons of uh raw materials annually so that's like the 40 if I remember correctly uh of the total long materials let's say that we use um so uh just let me just first give you a glimpse of about generally what we do um because uh is that indeed is a cluster that is placing itself in a construction domain so uh our purpose is to promote uh digitalization in smart uh entity and efficient energy buildings um we have a leading Greek companies that are including in our cluster as well as authorities and uh actually uh what do we do is we try to focus on the entire life cycle of the building meaning from the uh planning the commissioning uh the construction The Innovation the demolition even the recycling of the building and the building materials so our vision is uh to support uh and upgrade the digitalization of the construction sector and assist all relating companies to grow their uh digital maturity levels uh so uh as uh radhika said that I uh really really agree and see the point in that is that construction is such a fragmented industry um many different players players are involved in the supply chain so this can make it extremely difficult to coordinate all efforts and Implement all these new technologies and practices uh consistently uh among the industry uh and the buyer to that again as radwika said is the national laws because it's not only fragmented industry in terms of the players but also in terms of the countries that are involved for example uh in the leading let's say project so funding can be very important and what I find very also um essential is like for example the as a transition pathway uh said in the funding uh section uh the national RFS is a like a good chance and to set a common line for all players to close the European countries and uh force them if we can use this work to adopt this this new practices uh so what we try to do with our cluster is not only to Foster collaboration and uh transfer and transfer the know-how to the smes because that's the critical part we need to focus on uh provide training indication because this is also one of the biggest problems um Workforce can promote Innovation uh well on that on that line Zoe because that was one of the building blocks that elect that I talked about in fact one of the top ones was about skills and trying to build those skills and and of course talked about that uh the difficulty of the especially the micro uh Enterprises is is try to upskill them digitalize them um what are you doing over there uh with uh in in Greece to try to boost that in terms of uh training I guess you're referring so uh not only we have in our classic uh about 16 companies uh that are joining their first and we're doing uh seminars uh with uh them uh that are about engineers and kind of Engineers and actually to people who are related to the construction sector uh and it's really important because you know somehow this know-how and the knowledge only transfers to uh let's say biggest companies so we give smaller companies a chance to actually get a glimpse and uh important uh no important things about how the construction works in the biggest projects so uh we also um developing like internal projects uh we're developing software now we have five internal projects and one of them actually is about um it's about uh tools that are using uh AR and V Augmentin virtual reality that will help people who are in the field uh basically uh uh help them to to different uh stages of their work especially in the renovation stage okay so this is uh yeah part of our activities very good okay thank you Zoe uh can we uh I'd like to go back over to and and please do send in your questions uh any questions you have for um any of the panelists uh let me come back to Pablo and uh I'm wondering I'm here here's another 40 figure uh that uh about 40 of all total waste is from building construction that's major uh though okay uh 89 I'm seeing the the I think these are commission figures 89 is recycled but there's been little Improvement in recent years what concrete example do you have or can you give us of stepping up that that recycling in the construction business yeah no it's amazing grace is is like the this this book of Herman Melby this partly by uh that he said always I would rather not to no so we as an architect uh as we when we saw all the impact that architecture does is like I would rather not to make any building because it's amazing all the uh the harda is doing to the planet so we are really ambitious or maybe a kind of knife but we want to change this and we don't want just to make us less impact as possible we want to make a good impact in the environment so we're seeking for what we are aiming to make architecture to be a a good scene for the planet and construction about simpler planet and this is coming in two directions one it's uh the use of materials uh and maybe about later on on this and the second one is about circular economy so it's clear that we cannot go into this open uh life cycle of high in the materials manufacturing them using and then throwing to the Dustbin so circular economy is one of the main ways for changing this this Paradigm of construction yeah but can you give us a concrete example of what a project so yeah so we are into uh using uh this uh this methodology that it's designed for manufacturing and assembly that is the buildings they also made for disassembly so we are not much uh we are working with good as a material and it's a a material that is easy to recycle and to reduce um and [Music] we are also in in concrete we are working with a concrete that they reused part of the elements with the recycling elements okay the difficulty that we have it sometimes it's not easy to find uh these materials and the legislation the construction legislative legislation is not moving as quick also as we need so I always have to we need this balance about a new opportunities but we need also for the new legislation for all of this but we believe about a building as a bank of material so we will We Believe the passport of materials so all the elements that we are sitting in our buildings they will have we will like that they will have their passwords so at the end of the life cycle of it of this of its use [Music] we know what we can do with that maybe some of them we can reuse uh some of them we will have to recycle or some of them they will finish as a biological uh nutrient that will be easily to absorb with the with the ecosystem okay all right uh rodrika I want to come to you because I saw you nodding perhaps you have a concrete example uh as well and I also have a question for you from Dominique uh who asks can we set up a learning repository for Eco construction on a common core of skills as part of The Pact for skills for the well-being of all citizens um I think that kind of speaks to your idea about uh about upskilling right yeah unfortunately I don't have a complete for circular economy it's one of the subjects that we've started to undertake uh recently and we included it through a hackathon during the International Conference you know construct in May so we're going to have a hackathon on this we're just starting we're scratching the surface on eco construction um but yeah I was nodding because I was thinking the that in order to Foster digitalization as well as uh as a circular economy I totally agree that the role of the state is critical and um I think that what what the state should do would be first of all to digitalize permits and some of them have already done this but many of them are still way far from this stage um and maybe the the renovation the sorry the resilience plan which comprises a lot of money for digitalization maybe will be a good opportunity for states to digitalize all the procedures and make it easier for companies because it's useless for companies to digitalize if they don't have the counterpart in the public authorities and also it's critical to to change the approach in the public purchases in the public Acquisitions because um I and I think Pablo had that in mind as well I think if we don't have uh clear guidelines at least uh maybe at European level to help public servants in Acquisitions to Define more uh more intelligent smarter um smarter um uh terms for their Acquisitions to include both the digital the building information modeling issue but also uh circular economies of criteria related to Circular economy and to Echo materials and this kind of thing which at this point this is very difficult to do in many states because uh usually building an energy efficient building or using Echo materials might seem to be a bit more costly at the beginning so some of the materials are more costly all although overall the overall cost of the investment is smaller but the public authorities don't think in terms of the whole life cycle of the building but in terms of the actual execution and the cost of execution and this is why many um many uh polluting materials are preferred right okay let me uh get more questions coming in um let's uh hear from you first Victor so listen up uh this is a question from Andreas to all the panelists as partner in the EDI H innovate uh uh edih as were mentioned what could be a good way to address and support the mentioned challenge in many small companies what I mean yes this is a very tough question it has several several aspects into it there was uh well we have been working uh like this this idea of uh trying to bring back in 2013 uh we have created in Portugal uh the the national registration for every metal product declarations okay because to facilitate our companies we have also co-founded uh an European Association that's called Lego platform that gets together today practically all all uh European program managers of apds and we have done that because we believe that we were talking a while ago about embodied the energy and CO2 because I think we we could use this this instrument information lying in these cpds to to to generate what we call the echo design of our products and buildings and so on and now we're working uh stepping for something that rodica was saying we are working with this information exchange with Bim uh and to be able to insert this in this Digital Way of of doing uh construction so uh and and looking at construction so this this this aspect is uh it's quite important to get together this twin transition that is underlying under this question We have replaced and it's it's very important that uh also Edis and Saudi European digital Innovation apps and we are involved in one here in Portugal uh so it's very important that we the from our perspective of the digital transition linked with the green transition is to bring together this information that is underlying on different kind of instruments and uh what I should say as parallel universes and to bring them together to Foster one thing that is very important which is the echoes design of our materials products and buildings so we are working with this trying to bring these two worlds together this this twin transition together uh the digital side and and also the the environmental based information that can feed up this uh this instrument and that is important that they coexist the same fields of architecture and Engineers can benefit from them and the result of their work can really set up a more a more greener than the and sustainable habitat is there is there a concrete example of that an example that uh that you know we have been we have been involved in some uh in some projects with at the intervention level for instance at the echo design some of our members are deeply involved in European projects in this field so it's uh it's something that we have been promoting and also not only from the cluster point of view but which is more important trying to place our companies our RND institution in these projects because they are of course disseminating these through their networks also and this is an important role of the cluster to be a facilitated and bringing people and companies together for the same goal yeah okay very good Zoe do you want to add to to that any anything on your side about the edih and helping small companies uh well I'm gonna agree with the victory that's like a kind of a tough question um I see I see you put in the chat uh in the edih that we were involved in we created an online and digital maturity Tax test can you tell us about that yeah I think a colleague did it or that's for a decaps sorry about that so anything to add on that um if not then I have another question for you um sure let's see um let's see uh oh Pablo I see Pablo in the chat here okay um uh okay a lot of back and forth on the chat very good um let's see let me ask you then um about um can you say anything about uh toxic free um I see in the the uh the the the the transition plan of uh building toxic free getting rid of asbestos do you anything on that uh it toxic rate well um it's hard sometimes and this is linked actually to the previous question about the uh this passport of not only the buildings but also the materials that are included in the buildings it's really hard to keep track of every stage of the supply chain and it's actually like a huge problem also in the pharmaceutical industry a usually comparing because they're very similar and sometimes information usually useful information can be um be like how from go to from the biggest uh uh view um toxic free something that we're also trying to dive into okay yeah in the in our clusters so we're at the very very early stages up now and uh what we're trying to do is like first of all give a better uh you know um take a look of what's happening in the European level but again um we have the problem of uh legislation um and if we need for trying to uh uh contact uh companies I mean outside of the cluster because again uh there is a construction uh industry in Greece it's kind of large uh sometimes we Face problems uh that uh about definition let's say because uh many people have many definitions like uh let me make a comparison with when we talk about this security okay at the very beginning it was like a kind of fluent we had the general idea of what we want to do but there was no clear clear roadmap and that's what we're facing actually uh in this problem here unfortunately I cannot tell you that much I hope in the next because we want to be part of the next bi-weekly meetings and if we have any news on that I will I will let you know because um I'm not that aware uh yet okay that's fine anyone else would like to add on the the idea of toxic free because that is also part of a sustainable Construction any any other contributions on that okay I guess not um let's see we're pretty much wrapping up at this point um uh I think uh maybe this idea about competitiveness we talked about competitive competitiveness how do we create a favorable environment for competitiveness is there a concrete example of that among among the panelists okay okay can I yes go ahead Pablo we're looking for make a a product that it's competitive in the market yeah that's for sure because if it's not completed in the market there is no product that's right so but we are uh we're seeing is that we are facing is that um as in as in many other uh areas of economy uh going sustainable maybe sometimes keeps you that takes you out of competitive on competitiveness sorry so by the moment it's uh we are in the market and we are the the competition is about economy it's about price most of the times under regulation is about sustainability so in if we don't move the regulation if we don't make any legislation or construction that it's more about setting the standards or the minimum of sustainability that we can afford with this actual rules we can be more sustainable but if we want to move as much as we can and I mean to look for embodied carbon in all the whole cycle we are a little bit out of of competitiveness so that's a strange because in a way in a way we want to be more uh sustainable but as much as stimulus we get the less competitiveness that we have so how we manage this I think it will be a good not uh new when we go to this trading system of emissions but not only in the operational life but also in the in the embodied carbon so we're seeking for this competitiveness using these materials but using the materials in a wisdom way as less as possible because we have the markets very very much in mind okay but we need this these things of setting and new rules of the game because it cannot be cheaper to be climate aggressive okay I understand uh let's let's uh I see I see uh Victor and uh uh have raised their hands let me go to jail map first uh if you can turn on your camera though is that possible yes yes thank you thank you very much uh indeed the discussion about competitiveness is very important I would say to that that [Music] um just to react very quickly is this is this is the mother of our problems how you how you improve your products your Technologies and at the same times you keep them at a reachable price and it's a lot of research going on for that and we have been doing this or for a you know European project this is this is what they they are meant to to to to to to to to contribute to the general discussion so we we had at the HTTP for 12 years and funding research to do that so there's a there's an ongoing we have to do research and and this is called the industrial scale up the the way of you know improving your products when keeping the course low this is industrialization so this is a scale up of solution so we have to pass from the you know the the the art and craft architect designing specifically one house yeah to massive construction massive renovation also and there's a lot of solutions that are already valid and a lot of things going on so this is important and and this is but the other aspect of competitiveness that I would like to raise is connections this is why we are talking about Innovation ecosystem people you know open Innovation is seeking ideas outside of the company okay everyone agrees on that but to go further than open Innovation is to these ideas that are outside if you don't meet people if you don't meet the institution if you don't meet other people working even other industrial sectors you won't have these ideas so the idea is that the system had to be connected that's why we are doing metaclustering that's why we are urging people to participate in organizations in platforms and and and to to be there and an example concrete time we we funded smes via our innocent project with a building so this this funding was competitive so we we launched challenges to to smes based on on on on challenges about construction and digitalization construction and circular economy Etc and the most performant environment so the most winners the more winners we had was in Spain and it wasn't in my opinion it wasn't by chance because in Spain the ecosystem is very connected thanks to this technology platform which is platform technological Espanola construction so people are you know each other they work with Technology Centers they they are aware of everything and this uh gets more Edge in the competition so this is I think for clusters the idea of clusters is don't don't stay alone work with rtos work with other clusters work with everyone and use Platforms in order to to reach more audience and more collaborations that's that's my that's a great that's a great pep talk thanks thanks Yama uh and Victor uh I think you got the last word here uh and and you have a concrete example of that yeah so I just try to be brief because I want to compliment to this idea of okay research is important it's more important even if it is industrial driven with a strong exploitation plan of the results because that will condition and surely we'll make a step on the how competitive the so the final solution is so it's that really important but I want to bring the attention of something that I've already said in the beginning and I think radhika has also Rodrick has also touched this point when they say if you are dealing with public procurement in the end they will decided by the lowest price because they don't want to to be in a big mess with the call parts and so on so and then it goes sustainability okay so green procurement Cities play here not only research but cities that condition the way that cities are developed refurbished and so on so on the markets for projects as is very important what I call really the public property it's very important yeah because they condition also the private procurement the way companies establish their projects either they are small or big and this is a very important aspect is just we have to place the right questions the right demands at the public level at European level because otherwise we'll keep on deciding on the lowest price and that it will and it is it's impossible to talk about sustainability without the life cycle thinking it's it's the same way with other subjects you are not going to judge when you buy a car you're not only thinking about the price of the car you're thinking about maintenance consumption and so on for for as long as it lasts when you buy a house apparently you forgot these principles so this this is something that cannot exist and and one way to bring it faster to the market and give it the real value of the market to the sustainability factor is really to have the cities engaged in all their public procurement acts to be very uh objective on asking for Sustainable low-carbon Solutions and so on I think this is the fastest route for the twin position Victoria thank you very much thanks to uh Victor as well to Jeremiah Claudia Electra thank you to all of you and to all of your questions for all of you uh watching and listening uh great to have this uh this feedback in this interchange let's let's quickly go to funding opportunities uh from Martina please my thanks Chris and many thanks to all the panelists for these very fruitful and interesting discussion uh now we'll have a look at some funding opportunities related to today's topic and also someone some more related to Euro clusters uh first of all uh there is a call opening for fast tracking and promoting built environment construction and renovation Innovation with local value chains project results results are expected to are expected to sorry for them uh contribute to increase awareness and improve access at local and Regional level to research outcomes for sustainable winter environment construction um they a