eSignature Legality for Contract of Employment in European Union

How to eSign a document: e-signature legality for Contract of employment in European Union

hello and welcome everybody thank you for joining us for today's session which is demystifying eSignatures where we'll be analyzing the key elements involved in eSignatures so you can kind of understand all of the in-and-outs associated with using them my name is sarah linderman i'm in product marketing at adobe and i'm going to be taking you through the presentation today i'd like to start just by giving you a preview of both today's session as well as making note that this is part of a larger series so today as i mentioned we'll be doing demystifying um coming up on january 26th we have a session that is about powering digital transformation and education later in february we have a session about getting started with adobe sign that'll get into kind of setting your admin console up and getting started with understanding using and rolling the product out across your educational institution um we also have a bunch of on-demand content that's always available and when we send out the follow-up email to this session you'll be able to access the links to take you through to to get to each of those on-demand pieces in terms of today's session though as i mentioned it's about demystifying you signatures um we're going to be providing a quick overview of what adobe sign actually is we will be discussing the ins and outs of eSignature legality um and then we'll kind of wrap up and move into a little bit of a q a session so i'm gonna go ahead and get us started all right going paperless with adobe sign let's start with a quick reality check today nearly eighty percent of the workflows on a typical campus those could be student-facing workflows staff-facing workflows vendor-facing they're paper-based and this old-school approach of printing things out signing them scanning them emailing them back it feels really archaic and really inefficient and it involves a lot of steps it's complicated it's slow for anyone who's involved in these workflows and i'm sure you've been one of those individuals it results in a whole lot of time spent doing admin work and i'm sure you would rather be spending otherwise so what happens when you go digital well you kill all those pain points that i mentioned for each transaction and we consider a transaction one document that's going out for signature a school can save an average of an hour and a half of labor by going digital and since you're spending time since you're actually able to reduce a lot of the errors by going digital you can reduce your overall processing time by up to 96 and when you add up all the hard and soft costs you realize an average savings of around six dollars per transaction now i know that sometimes that figure sounds shockingly high but you know if you can contemplate all the things that go into it it's really not there's the cost of printer paper there's the cost of running the printers running the copiers running the faxing all of the equipment and the materials and the time that's rolled into that you're able to cut all of that out and one way to think about this just kind of in a in a bigger way is think about 20 000 forms if you take those digital that's savings of around 120 000 and over 30 000 labor hours which is pretty incredible what is adobe sign what can you do with it um it's it's quite comprehensive with adobe sign you can quickly turn paper microsoft office documents or pdfs into fillable assignable forms you can then easily send them out for eSignature with just a single click and recipients can sign them from anywhere using a web browser quick note there people often ask when i sign a document for signature does the person who's signing need to have an adobe account an app a login nope they do not have to have any of that all they need again is the web browser where they can quickly open the document and sign it all those documents are going to be protected with very strict security measures and then they can be accessed and tracked and managed from anywhere in real time which for anyone who's working on the administrative side of things and kind of the one who has to make sure these documents are getting completed getting signed this is a huge huge benefit adobe signs also built to integrate with other key systems on your campus so you don't have to worry as much about the implementation challenge of bringing in a new system and making sure that it's going to cooperate where others with your other systems or provide a user-friendly experience and that's a big benefit that we like to talk about there's obviously a lot of competitors that we face so what is it um that makes adobe sign a great product for education compared to all the others out there well there's five points that we like to pull out specifically the first one is adobe's trust and credibility we've been working uh in education for over 20 years um with the products like adobe sign and also through a lot of our creative cloud products so we know this space really well we know what it takes to to work with and serve education customers and we are really invested in and dedicated to making sure that you have the support and the implementation services you need um so that you feel you have a really trusted partner when it comes to putting adobe sign in place the second point is easy is uh ease of use it's easy for the sender it's easy for the signer um and that's important because when it comes to education we understand that you have a really widely varied audience in terms of comfortability with technology and we want something that's going to work for everybody and we believe that adobe sign is a product that delivers that experience the third point is one that i mentioned on the last slide and that is the integrations we're designed to integrate very seamlessly with a lot of other it systems and in particular if your school happens to work with any microsoft system adobe sign is particularly amazing because we are microsoft's only preferred eSignature solution that means that if you have a school that's used to working within teams within sharepoint adobe sign integrates right into that so that they can use the features and functionality of adobe sign without having to leave those environments that they're already really comfortable working in just a couple more points to cover off on the next one is this intuitive workflow control so our uh workflow management um it's easy to use for everybody so users like faculty or staff or admins they can use the visual design tools that we have very quickly and easily to build and test and refine workflows themselves they don't need to have coding expertise or experience anyone at the institution regardless of their of their tech abilities can really tailor automate create those signing workflows without needing to be a technical expert which is huge because no school i'm sure has the it staff and and time to support that all and then final point which is probably one of the most important ones on here is the compliance our adobe sign products meet the highest levels of global security and compliance requirements we actually use the same technologies and security engineering processes that are relied on by financial institutions governments of course educational institutions all around the world so you can rest assured that everything is being done very safely and security which is really important when you think about the type of student data that's being run through these workflows all right so where can you use adobe sign pretty much everywhere that's my answer it's a solution that's built to support workflows all across your campus or institution it's really great for operational workflows things like vendor agreements uh very handy with staff management needs so if you're working with a lot of onboarding forms which you most undoubtedly are academic research submissions if you're on the higher ed side of things great for that and it's also super valuable for student or alumni facing workflows you can think about things like course management or donor forms and in all of these cases when you're using those paper-based forms and the wet signatures it requires tons of time cross-coordination between departments individuals it's literally a lot of legwork but when you go paperless with adobe sign you're going to simplify those routing procedures you're going to reduce trips to offices or campus for everybody and you're going to get things accomplished a lot faster it's a better experience for the whole campus community all the way around all right moving on so let's get into the thick of things and kind of the meat of why you probably joined us today um that's kind of analyzing the elements of trust and identity so what we're going to talk about today is the importance of signer identification and analyzing key elements for eSignatures now we've included three lesson slides in this you know because education so pay careful attention to those those are going to be mixed in and like i said in the end we'll do a little bit of q a so let's go ahead and move into that so adobe and in particular document cloud have a really long history of building and leading with trust obviously you notice that i talked about that in the last session and we share this trust by creating new open source standards that advance the overall experience with digital documents and eSignatures we did this with pdf in 1992 way back when we did this with the certified document service which is now known as the adobe approved trust list in 2005 and as of 2019 we implemented the cloud signature consortium open standard for creating really highly secure trusted cloud signatures with adobe sign this is an especially important point as we have this history of leading with trust it's not proprietary we don't create closed environments that only were able to profit from instead what we want to try to do is really drive innovation across the whole global market so everybody can benefit so today our digital world as i'm sure you're well aware of is full of risk um most of us unfortunately are too familiar with the importance of using strong passwords um things like two-factor authentication and the never-ending attempts by cyber criminals to phish or clone or otherwise gain access to our data for not so great purposes so i think it's important to start with a story about how i was actually able to forge an identity with a simple written signature this goes back a while i was 11 years old and at this time which was before school records were digitized if a student was absent for any reason you had to bring a written note from a parent to excuse absence and then the school administrator would visually compare the signature on that absence note to the signature card which was signed by your parent at the beginning of each year um the way this story goes is that one year when i was handed that annual signature card to bring home for a parent signature i remember looking the card and thinking it's probably just easier if i sign it myself so i did and for the remainder of all my school year this forgery scream worked flawlessly ing to the school my signature always matched no matter what note i forged my name on for many many absences so identity fraud now as you're likely aware of eSignatures speed the pace of transactions they reduce paper when used effectively they can securely transform operations but unfortunately it's not just as simple as replacing wet ink signatures with electronic ones and this is why i want to spend a little bit of time unpacking so you can understand the two key complementary parts legality and risk so important the most common use for eSignatures is related to completing agreements thus what makes an eSignature legally binding is about contract law if challenged in court such as if someone denies that they signed or denies that they signed a particular agreement it can be really expensive for your educational institution and as with any transaction there's also the potential for fraud as well as the risk of cyber crime to be considered to keep things simple analyzing your eSignature workflows means breaking them down into a few different elements that i'm going to go through here so first is the type of eSignature that's required to form a legally valid agreement second is document category that's things like contracts with legal or regulatory requirements or those which are higher risk or higher value to your organization the third is the knowledge of the signer by which i mean how well do you know the signer are they internal are they external are they unknown by your organization and finally signer identification which means which method did you use to identify each eSignature from each signer on that document so let's start with lesson one outside of the u.s at this time countries around the world share a really similar approach to eSignature definitions uh legal validity and technology and this includes providing stronger legal weight to highly secure and often regulated digital signatures this type of eSignature is called a digital signature because of the use of a digital certificate that is bound to the signature field with cryptophography however the type of v-signature you choose is often a matter of balancing risk versus cost this is because the more secure eSignatures which includes digital signatures also come with higher costs and more complex signer identification processes so generally speaking there's four types of eSignatures with progressively higher levels of security for each your first is the simple graphical eSignatures this also includes when you use fill and sign if you're an adobe acrobat then you've got an enhanced signature which includes some type of signer authentication such as two-factor methods that might include a phone pin otp at adobe refer to these as premium authentication methods an eSignature with some signer identity verification such as using sso with the trusted digital id that's your next level that's advanced but please note that the term advanced signature is a european union legal term but the description is also a good fit for this webinar finally the most secure type of v-signature that you can have today which is a digital signature backed by a qualified digital certificate now again i'm using european technology or terminology here but that's because the definition has not made it into u.s law well yet at least there are other legal terms that are often used around the world for this type of highly really uh regulated eSignature such as secure reliable or trusted and in many countries this type of eSignature is considered legally equivalent to a traditional handwritten signature it's important to mention one area of confusion is around the use of a self-signed certificate although a self-signed certificate does technically create a digital signature because it uses the same encryption technology to bind the signature to the document it completely misses the point about trusted identity thus a self-signed certificate is actually equivalent to just a simple electronic signature kind of like if you printed your own passport as evidence that you are who you say you are so as i mentioned there's another type of b signature which is the cloud signature dub what is it and why is it important a cloud signature is a digital signature where your digital signing certificate is stored in the cloud what this means is that once your identity is verified by an accredited third party which for some can be actually done entirely remotely and in real time you can then apply a highly secure trusted digital signature direct from your mobile now given the obvious difficulties of meeting face-to-face nowadays cloud signatures offer a huge productivity boost for easily obtaining legal security signatures almost anywhere in the world but it's not just the convenience that makes cloud signatures so important it's the way that they're implemented that really matters and as a long-term member of the cloud signature consortium adobe has spent years of investment to help create the global etsi standard for cloud signing and you might be wondering why we go to all this effort it's because we genuinely believe that creating a scalable open standard is the best approach for our customers and innovation for eSignature technology all right let's talk next about document category another key step when analyzing your signature process is to like i said categorize your documents so that could be identifying those with legal or regulatory requirements also document categories that include high value transactions ideally should be associated to higher risk profiles however most like more than 50 percent of your documents and your corresponding eSignatures are actually pretty low risk a few other consider considerations when you're categorizing your documents include the following what's the risk appetite of your organization or your department does the agreement need to be signed in a different jurisdiction and what is the impact to your organization if a problem occurs there's some good food for thought given the rise in digitization and the threat of cyber crime and bad actors and so on it's reasonable to anticipate that how your organization views risk today will change over time and that's okay because we're here to evolve with you on that all right lesson two know your signer to to uh deliver this lesson it's helpful to explain how we break down identification and e-signing to signer verification authentication and authorization which are probably questions that that you might have brought today like what do these things even mean and how are they different so verification that's when a signer's identity is thoroughly vetted with documentation face-to-face meetings etc this is similar to when you first open a new bank account or join a new organization authentication that's what happens when a signer confirms who they are when related to an eSignature this usually means confirming something you own something you know and or something you are such as through biometric information and the last one is authorization and this is specifically specifically related to signatures it means that the signer agrees to the terms of a contract by choosing to place a signature written or electronic on the document so putting this into lesson three what what is the type of signer a signer who is an employee of your school or university organization this is also called an internal signer may be allowed to just authenticate and authorize a signature without the use of a digital certificate figuring that the employee's identity was thoroughly verified during onboarding this may be entirely acceptable from a risk standpoint for your school but as you're aware most eSignature use cases also include external signers such as outside counsel known vendor or new student when it comes to education and in these cases you may are you may also already have verified the signers identity like if you have an enrolled student and issued them a specific digital id tied to your student identity system so then depending on the use case it may be fine to only require this external signer to authenticate their identity via your identity system and authorize their signature however a signature analysis related to knowing your signer really comes into play when considering what level id what level of id verification is needed to mitigate risk for an unknown designer and if the use case at hand requires or a best practice then an unknown signer's identity first be verified by trusted third party or if a qualified digital signature is also needed all right let's talk about sorry slide issues let's talk about identification solutions within specifically adobe sign in adobe sign you can add more direct forms of id verification such as government id which a predictive machine learning algorithm that analyzes government-issued id documents at the point of signing you can also use those certificate-based digital signatures that include identification by a third-party trust service provider as you can see here not all identity assurance method methods are created equal and even if you use a combination of identification methods that are individually inherently weak there's still a lot of risk that you're building into the process um this level of risk might be acceptable for some of your non-critical forms or processes um but in reality the cyber criminals or bad actors are out there waiting for an opportunity and as we are all aware the need for security always seems to go up not down so just something to think about as you consider which approaches you want to put into place a little bit more on signer identification which is obviously something we've been talking a lot about why do we keep talking about it why is it so important because how a signer is identified really does have a direct impact on many of the risks that are associated with eSignatures so stronger signer identification methods that might be those that are used for digital signatures they increase the cost and complexity of each signature but they also add benefit for added legal and security protections so depending on the type of signer and other risk factors defined by your school how each signer is identified should be ideally appropriately balanced with the level of security that's needed to mitigate the risk for every c signature that you're going to be putting onto a specific document i know a lot of this is pretty complex there's a lot of different ways of looking at this there's a lot of factors involved but if you can figure it out uh by some tools that we have available to use then analyzing your eSignature workflows is not so challenging um and in our experience when you compare to paper and all the things that can go wrong there all the errors and misplacements etc digital is actually way easier to secure and manage over time and that's why we created the adobe signature framework it's publicly available it's a spreadsheet-based tool that's designed to help departments and teams analyze the connections between the type of b signature and document category how well you know the signer and the type of method used to identify the signer so when you use this framework properly it can really augment the existing risk analysis processes that you already might have in place it can help your organization think more critically about eSignatures and it provides a basis for more productive internal discussions about your eSignature policies so it's a really great tool and this is something that we're going to be placing in the in the the email that you'll receive after you've finished uh watching this webinar today so um looking forward to sending you that and hopefully you'll find it to be a really useful tool and that is actually all i have for today um i know it's a lot of information we appreciate you attending i hope you took a lot of uh away from this um and if you have more questions and you'd like to get into it then please stay on the line and we'll be moving into a q a session so you can get your questions addressed so thank you again and i will hand it over to my colleague mike for doing the q a thank you yeah great thanks sarah and uh thank you everybody for joining in today a lot of great questions from our q a pod here so i'll get right to it and what i can't answer myself uh lori i'll pass over you to maybe kind of add some more color commentary on it so we had a couple questions first on how can we how can we authenticate the identity of signers if the signer doesn't have an adobe account so it's a great question and actually comes up a lot and the great news is whoever needs to sign a document especially if they're an external signer to your institution never needs to have an adobe account so we're basically checking their identity based on some of those options that laurie talked about whether it's email address we can do two-factor authentication using an sms kind of type code we can do things even more advanced but they never need to actually log in as long as we have their email address that's the first layer of identity and then depending on how the workflow and adobe sign is set up they can prove their identity using a couple other methods and lori i don't know if you wanted to touch on that a little bit more just in terms of any cover this in the presentation a bit but just in terms of when identity is important identity is always important but it really matters whether or not the um how much risk is built into that particular signing workflow so if it's a really low risk scenario then you balance it based on what the cost would be and what the likelihood of something going wrong i think i saw something about signatures on ieps in theory you should know who the student is and know who the parent is and they're to my knowledge uh in the us i i don't know of any legal requirement for a type of eSignature on an iep but um that is really for your own department to decide what the right level of identification is we just make it all possible yeah exactly and it all goes back to the level of risk that as an organization that you have depending on the type of form that needs to be to filled out there's very few forms especially in uh in the united states that have specific requirements on the type of signature in europe it's a little bit different with the various types of digital signatures but yeah it all depends on the type of form and how much how in depth you want the identity authentication to be another good question was is the legality of a signature is it because of how it shows up on the document using kind of like the different graphical elements that adobe sign provides such as like the actual signature drawing the underlining and the date or is it the actual process behind how we're capturing that signature and the answer for that is definitely not the type of graphic the graphic is just the proof that the document was signed the the legality the easy way that i like to think of it is it's about the three eyes three eyes are the identity that we just talked about the identity of the signer the intent that the signer is in fact actively signing something so we can't automatically attach a signature they have to literally click a button or use their mouse to draw their signature or do some sort of action and then the third eye is the integrity that how are we storing that signature what kind of proof do we have so the graphic is a nice way to show that the document was was signed but to meet all of the most common legal requirements it's about meeting those three different categories that there's identity involved in this whether it's as simple as an as an email address that we know or something as advanced as a digital signature with a certificate uh the intent that someone actually did sign it on their own will and that we're storing it in what we call the audit trail the audit trail basically stores all the details of when the document was signed the ip address of the signer what identity was used if they met all the identification requirements and this is really what makes an eSignature legal and lori i don't know if you wanted to add anything else onto that one um legality is uh is a complex topic um we actually have a full kit of legality guides in the adobe's trust center under document cloud because legality is entirely different uh depending on the country so there are times where for example mike mentioned in europe certain specific digital signatures are required there's another level i mentioned in my presentation about an advanced signature which has certain requirements and a lot of these definitions are actually worldwide so if you're signing something outside the us this is why we created some of the legality guides give your self your legal department a jump on understanding what laws might create legally signatures now in the u.s we also have a u.s guide and uh i mean i'm seeing laws beginning to change but we'll see we'll see i'd be real surprised if digital signatures didn't come into play fairly soon uh in in terms of being required for certain things great great information uh another question here is how can we validate an eSignature so for example if it's been used in the medical field or iso one three four eight five which is used commonly in kind of medical type forms and practices so lori i'll turn this one to you so you can kind of give a little bit more details on i guess how do we when something is signed how do we actually validate it after the fact well we would um open up the signature panel we have videos on this uh in terms of uh the digital it's actually for digital signatures but when you click on the digital signature it'll show the um the panel and the audit trail and you can see where um what type of certificate was used uh the date and time of signing and that actually literally ties the e-signatu that digital signature to that signer but in terms of validating um any other type of eSignature it's in the audit trail so there is a service called government id i mentioned um and that does give a sign or identity identity identification report identity report but otherwise you know you've given a one-time password or i don't know maybe use lexisnexis sorry or was it knowledge based authentication to authenticate designer so this is captured in the audit trail but um deep details um you have to keep digging in okay great um another question here this is an easy answer that i can happily answer um basically saying that their organization leverages mobile sms kind of multi-factor authentication using a one-time pin code and the question is does adobe sign support that as an authentication method for identity and we definitely do so when you are defining your send for signature flow you basically choose what kind of identity do you want used and you can choose sms based activity so you plug in the recipient's mobile phone number they'll get an automated sms with the one-time code that they need to plug in before they're able to access the document to sign it so that's one of the various ways that we can prove identity and of course that record is captured in the audit trail afterwards to show that they successfully passed the mobile multi-factor authentication um another question here came in asking just a little bit more details on what a digital identity is and how does that work together with an eSignature so i'll turn that one to you laurie as well sure um this one i think i'm a little more my bailiwick a digital identity or digital id is similar to a passport in electronic form it allows you to securely prove that you are who you say you are each digital id is backed by a digital certificate issued by a trusted third party such as a bank educational institution or government after they've verified that you are who you say you are then uh you just need to authenticate your identity using pin face id one time passcode etc to have access to secured services such as educational resources or citizen services for example i actually have multiple digital ids like for my bank accounts or even for adobe great let's see here a lot of questions just looking for the ones that are going to be the most common for everybody here to benefit from [Music] so this is definitely a lot more relevant for those outside of north america especially for those in europe so the differences between aes and qes which is the advanced eSignature and qualified eSignature so those are two different types of digital signatures and i know we went through these pretty quickly in in the presentation but laura maybe if you want to jump back to those the differences between aes and qes and when the two of them would need to be used well interestingly enough i didn't queue up all my details on an advanced i think it if i'm correct it needs to be linked definitively so the signer uh the signer needs to be in control of the um uh and control at all times and to be honest if i go much farther i'm probably gonna fumble it the fundamental difference if with a qes it is is that it is it's the highest level signature and it is always a digital signature and a qes is a concept that is worldwide i mentioned in the presentation they're called different things they're called certified they're called reliable they're called trusted but i see them in uh laws not that i can read every language but we have translated to english laws around the world um certainly in the legality guides and this is why i really believe that this concept will be coming at some point to the u.s yep awesome um we had another question asking about the time stamp so when a document is signed and we're recording the timestamp what part does the timestamp play in terms of making the the signature legal so i can talk about that one a little bit so as i mentioned before the kind of the foundational thing that makes an eSignature legal are those three eyes the identity the intent and the integrity so when you're thinking of those three those three principles of an eSignature's uh legality recording when the signature was when the signature took place and where are we storing that data that's part of both the intent and the integrity so when we're tracking when we're storing a time stamp of when the document was signed that helps prove the intent to say yes this person signed this document at this time and then because we're also documenting when it was signed in the audit report that's also supports the integrity component so the time step is is obviously very important in terms of the overall legality of any signature a follow-up question to the aes the advanced eSignatures does that use a third-party certificate authority so i think another question right up your alley lori that one i i can answer both offendedly i'm terribly embarrassed that it's not coming off top of my head for all the minor requirements for uh in advance um adobe recommends uh using a advanced digital certificate to uh sign with an advanced signature and this is based on the itis or european union law it is not required in the letter of the law but we believe that the best way to meet these requirements is to use an advanced certificate okay perfect the eSignature framework is literally in the adobe trust center i saw one question there and you do have to fill in your name but we're not using it for any demand gen purposes it's just to understand who's using it and who's uh and so we can get some feedback um the um do you i'm sorry i saw one other one can you share a link to the us and international legal guides for reference and um uh yeah there is uh uh that is also in the adobe trust center under document cloud yeah and for anyone that has a hard time finding it it's literally adobe.com trust.html and we'll be able to link of that out to people as a follow-up as well so it looks like those were most of the questions that came in if we didn't get to any of your specific questions because i think it might be really unique to your situation we'll definitely get back to you directly uh lori if there was anything else that you wanted to maybe kind of follow up on that's that time on i see one that's actually really fun um i think it's for matt the school signature card by the way that was quite real and friends actually asked me to sign their parents signature on a regular basis so i'm really good at signing a variety of kids parent signatures um so technically how would it make it any better well it depends how you uh verify that the uh signature is actually coming from the parent now of course at any time a student could very easily go and take their parents email address and use that sure they could sign something but that also would give a trail and the parent hopefully is managing their email address and doesn't leave their computer open and so on or for example um hopefully you don't have students who are going in there and creating email addresses just so they can sign off on a parent absence card yeah you can spoof it but it's a lot harder uh digitally versus me signing one signature card at the beginning of the year and then to add add on to that i mean if if the school is is very wary of of students spoofing parents then you can definitely use kind of a two-factor authentication if if the teacher for example sending it out has the mobile phone number of the parents and they can use that that way when someone tries to sign it they'll get an sms with the one-time code so hopefully the student doesn't also have the parent's phone at hand but i mean i mean there's always going to be people trying to spoof the system so it's all about adding as many ways to prevent that as possible one last question actually a couple people ask this if we have any training sessions on how to prepare fillable forms to get them to be used in adobe sign so we actually do have quite a lot of of on-demand and also upcoming sessions talking more about the basics of using adobe sign and how to set up documents for signature so i would say definitely take a look at what we have on demand for that and also stay tuned for more of our kind of introduction to adobe sign the foundational concepts of how to use the product itself that'll definitely cover those kind of things and of course we'll be happy to reach out to anybody directly with questions that we can help you out learn a little bit more about using adobe sign and um it looks like you are wondering if there's someone you can email if you have any specific questions you want us to follow up with just drop your email into the chatbot and somebody will get back to you for sure and with that let me hand this back to sarah we'll wrap up those where most of the questions and again if you have any other questions we didn't get to we will get back to you directly here and thank you everybody for joining sarah back to you yes give me one second i'm pulling something up i see also questions coming in about can you access uh the recordings where do you access the recordings etc so i am grabbing that link and we'll drop that into the chat pod too here we go okay yes um we will make sure that we give follow-ups of all this and to get back to any specific questions all right so wrapping up i have a few next steps here um firstly just checking out some of our resources we have put um phil go ahead and we can drop those links in so to the trust center that we've mentioned um to some other security and compliance related links um plenty of reading up on that and then we'll also drop in the link that will allow you to go and find all of the webinars that we have available um both so you can sign up for future events and so you can access the recording from today as well as past events so that you can use that and also share it around with any colleagues you think might be interested um and that kind of leads me to point two is just this about the on-demand webinars and staying tuned for next year's events um you'll receive all the information on that and then finally if there's more information that you would like if you would like a custom demo if you want to get into some more complex questions either contract or rep if you have one or again i see that some people have gone ahead and dropped their emails into the chat just go ahead and do that and we will make sure that somebody will get back to you directly with that i will go ahead and wrap things up and would just say thank you so much for for joining us today for being a great audience and putting all these questions in there and staying super engaged and um thank you lori and mike and team uh great session and thanks to all who joined