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optimize the situation for example through you the financial side of things and also the parenting matters which I know is is probably your your area really of speciality yes that's true and first thing that I recommend is go and speak to a lawyer get a good lawyer go and get advice at that point in time you don't actually have to make any decisions but the more you can do with your partner or ex partner the cheaper it will be I think people have a an idea that going to a lawyer is scary which it can be um but number two that it can be very expensive but in the long run you get what you pay for so going to a lawyer once you've separated is a really important First Step what you do with that information is then up to you and I I guess for that matter you know a lot of people know lawyers do you just go and see any lawyer or is it worth seeking out specialist skills look what I tell my clients is most most lawyers will take a phone call give them a call see if you like the lawyer um have a chat over the phone most will give a free initial consultation um obviously it generally is quite a long relationship with your lawyer so make sure that you get on well um and and have that free free chat hey guys welcome to this week's money and investing show this week we are looking at a very difficult situation for so many people and that is divorce and family law it's an area that's certainly full of myths and for so many can be one of the biggest financial decisions that they either have to make or is made for them doesn't have to be that way getting expert help knowing the facts and making sure you have a team of experts around you is crucial as always please do make sure you take plenty of notes but most importantly particularly with this one if you're in this situation please do take the right form of action hey guys Andrew backy here and welcome to this week's money and investing show this week something a little bit different I don't have W Mitch with me this time around in fact we've got a very special guest which is part of our 25 year anniversary giveback program one of the key things about the money investing space is obviously a focusing on the opportunity of creating wealth the second part of it unfortunately for so many people is what happens in the event of a divorce or separation which can be financially devastating for many people this is one of those areas there are so many myths and rather than get to get to myths let's cut to the chase to the actual facts and to help us with this we've Enlisted the help of family law expert 16-year in fact family law practicing expert and that is Emma ludique welcome to the show Emma thank you thank you for having me so divorce the big thing many many people talk about is that it's quite frequent these days what sort of percentage roughly would you put on marriages ending in divorce these days well at the moment it's close to 50% wow that's pretty sobering and I guess the million dollar question so many people ask you know particularly in today's world of casual relationships yeah what's the difference between say a divorce and a separation so a lot of people get confused about that question um the actual divorce is just a piece of paper oh really that you can file in the court um the actual separation is a date that is communicated between the parties and then from that date you can start to resolve financial matters and parenting matters so effectively the big word is in fact just simply piece of paper for the divorce yes but people get quite confused between that and a separation and when they can resolve things so you put your application in and one of the myths and I guess you know it's a really interesting space I guess it's like the doctor or I guess in our world in the investing space so many people rely on Google or a friend of mine's done this for their information and I've only got to wait 12 months is one of the myths that you often hear about what what what exactly does that mean so a lot of people think you need to wait 12 months to resolve the financial matters but that's not true you can resolve it from when communication um when separation is communicated um and that is just a process of going and speaking to a lawyer usually is a good idea um and and going from there the the hard thing I think is that when separation is communicated normally one party is quite shocked by that whereas the other party has been thinking about that for quite some time so then you've got two people who are very in very different emotional spaces trying to resolve um financial and maybe parenting as well well that sounds like it could be really challenging and I guess if you're you're the person that's on the just been given the notice side of things that emotional shock you know could be can be pretty hard to deal with I guess people are feeling you very very vulnerable in that situation if it's if it's something that's sprung on them and and I guess they can on the back of that be kind of forced or feel that they're being forced into a process or um you an outcome how important is it to have a good team around you to make sure that you know you make decent quality decisions and so on I think that's the most important thing is to have have a good team around you at that point in time um a lot of people aren't thinking rationally so having someone to speak to who can give you facts um and can give you advice is a really important thing to do at a point when you feel so emotional and in so many ways I guess it kind of overlaps with our world where we we have people on the investing space that when they're very emotional about money you know the decision mak's the decision making is not great and I guess this will be the same oh it's it's exactly the same and and then you're also bringing in another person um because you can't make decisions by yourself um that arise out of a relationship so that that adds another degree wow to the issues so we've talked about the divorce application is is the bit of paper how can you optimize the situation for example through you the financial side of things and also the parenting matters which I know is is probably your your area really of speciality yes that's true um first thing that I recommend is go and speak to a lawyer get a good lawyer go and get advice at that point in time you don't actually have to make any decisions but the more you can do with your partner or ex partner the cheaper it will be I think people have a an idea that going to a lawyer is scary which it can be um but number two that it can be very expensive but in the long run you get what you pay for so going to a lawyer once you've separated is a really important First Step what you do with that information is then up to you and I I guess for that matter you know a lot of people know lawyers do you just go and see any lawyer or is it worth seeking out specialist skills look what I tell my clients is most most lawyers will take a phone call give them a call see if you like the lawyer um have a chat over the phone most will give a free initial consultation um obviously it generally is quite a long relationship with your lawyer so make sure that you get on well um and and have that free free chat so first step to to pick up the phone and would you just talk to one person or or or is it worth do they call it is it lawyer shopping or something I wouldn't recommend lawyer shopping um I think usually word of mouth is a really nice way speak to a friend um get get a recommendation um and have that initial phone call and see if if you and the lawyer um I guess get on and then take it from there but I think lawyer shopping is not the best way to approach it some people do do that as a as a tactic um but I don't see any benefit to that now and in terms of the timeline so the the news is sprung on you or you're about to Spring the news you you you've got advice or at least had at least an initial consult with a lawyer to find out what your rights are what happens next is how do you file for example if you if you elect that you want to move forward or do you try and try and bridge the gap and work it out first well that's the most cost-effective way um speak to your partner have those discussions but some people can't do that um I think the more amicable it is the easier that is to resolve especially when there's children um that's a really important conversation and then go to your lawyer and say this is what we've we we're at this is where we're at um and then there might be just a few things that your lawyer can help you with and the other side and to nut it out to get to a final agreement money and and parenting are two things that are hugely emotional we see the amoney side most certainly in our line of business and I know we're talking off camera before we started you mentioned that you know you've been in court previously and you know people have been fighting over a toaster I mean how how does it get to that stage quite easily actually I wouldn't recommend it but it does get it it can get to that um just depending on on where the parties are at the lawyers that are involved um but again that that's a scenario where you are not going to get the best financial outcome if if we're in court arguing about a toaster yeah I guess that's you know that's the person you stood at the aisle with and said I do and now it's now it is pretty acrimonious to get to that stage so moving things forward you've gone through the process the the divorce gets finalized in terms of a piece of paper is issued and what's the next step so the normal process would be you would communicate separation um or someone would communicate that separation is happening with you you would then go and speak to a lawyer see how much work you and your ex partner can do together both in relation to financial matters and parenting um then the best course of action would be to go back to your lawyer and say this is where we're at um there's a few issues but this is the bulk of the agreement and can you go from there um this is kind of the ideal scenario and then your partner or ex partner then hopefully has a lawyer that we can communicate with um if they don't we can always communicate with them directly and we go from there try to resolve any issues if we can't um then we try mediation and if that's not available then you may end up in court hopefully not um otherwise the agreement that is reached can be resolved by a binding Financial agreement or by consent orders so it's it sounds even though it's an emotional mindfield that to a large extent certainly from your side of the desk it's it is a process that you simply have to work through and I guess trying to Traverse that on your own in a highly emotionally charged state is is pretty hard and you were talking about the best financial outcome and I think um speaking to a lawyer having your agreement documented um properly is going to be the best outcome for you both for the future I guess it's for for many people it's going to be one of the biggest financial decisions that they have to make so the notion of going they didn't make yeah or they didn't yeah poor decision to start with um so getting a cookie cutter online outcome highly recommended not to do and get it done belt and braces properly with professional advice yes you get what you pay for one of the other things I've only seen this a couple of times recently funny enough with within our family uh within our financial planning business is is one or other party uh from a separation they're not necessarily the people that have been used to looking after the money you know typically there's one person in the relationship that tends to be the more money orientated person and then the other side is yeah typically quite naive as to what to do and then all of a sudden they've they've got this you potentially decent sum of money but it's got to last a lifetime or provide for children or or go forward what what are some of the big pitfalls there like for example Estate Planning and things like that that you see come through um I think the biggest Pitfall that I see is parties continuing to fight about the financial assets from the relationship I think that's the fastest way to um have the asset pool dwindled away yeah on on legal fees I guess if you're at that stage yeah and and and it shocks me the number of people that come through without a will for example especially if they've been given custody of the kids as the primary primary person looking after the kids and they've now got money or a house but they don't have any estate planning or a will I was also shocked I recently asked some friends um hoping that they would answer that they have a will um but a lot of them said they didn't and I said how do you not have a will and they said because when they started the relationship they were young they didn't have any assets and they didn't see a need for it um and then things just happened and then now with a house with kids kids um so and half of them said I don't want to adult I don't want to be an adult um even though they are and I think a will is not a scary thing it's something you probably don't want to think about but it's very important to have oh I guess especially if they there are kids that's yes that's and on separation um updating your will is very important too and I guess a couple of quick fire questions this is this is really interesting to listen to because touchwood it's an area I never have to experience I don't I think I will um and and it's fascinating to sort of hear how as a professional you go about putting the pen in the balloon and trying to get the emotion under control so that people can become perhaps a little bit more objective and then with a hand on the shoulder let them know look you're not on your own this is what we do let us walk you through it um in what is some really murky water now I thought i' I'd challenge you with a couple of quick fire questions if I may I'll did a quick Google some myths or maybe not myths as far as as far as of this area of family law is concerned so um thoughts on prenups and things of that sort of nature going in do they hold up or is it more of a myth than a than a than a fact again it's a case by case basis I think um a prenup serves a purpose if you have been married before and there's and you're remarrying and there's two sets of children from two different relationships um prenups if they are done correct correctly with two competent lawyers um are a really good Tool uh but again need to be updated regularly I guess Blended families in particular can can really muddy the water there so that's something for people to consider if they're finding themselves going into that yes yeah again get advice um that's a really important thing to look at sometimes in in a first relationship as well or first marriage second one um is I'm okay I've got a Family Trust how does a how does a family court typically deal with a family trust my assets are all held in trust you can't get any of them well that is a big myth and unfortunately a a trust um doesn't usually protect um Assets in a family law matter um The Family Court can go into trusts and again on a Case by casee basis it can look at it and that can form part of the assets um for distribution well and and I'd imagine I guess it's an extension that question the same with superannuation as well yeah superannuation is usually included yeah wow that that's really interesting and I guess this highlights more than anything how important it is to talk to someone that deals with the facts rather than oh my friend told me this or Google told me that because GE it could be pretty expensive if you if you didn't get advice last one for you Emma um we' got everything sort out we we're separated or divorced and a couple years later your ex comes back to you going hand out I need some I need some money it is does it all just go away you've got your divorce finalized and it's done or what what what happens in that situation what are some of the horror stories or or myths that people have fallen prey to there well I have I've seen a lot of matters where people do come back um because the separation wasn't documented properly um there's a lot of deao relationships now and they agree between themselves or find a cookie cut agreement on the internet um and in that scenario generally then there may be a chance that one side will come back and claim assets after the separation which can be you know that time period um again if it's finalized properly by a lawyer and you get what you pay for it's probably one of the better financial decisions you will make even though it seems initially quite quite a large sum of money that's that that that is interesting in itself and that's hit three of the things just Googled today prior to to us sitting down and it's kicked them into touch and I guess it highlights just how important it is to get professional advice with arguably one of the most significant financial decisions you potentially May ever have to make definitely so putting a ribbon around this one of our goals for our clients is always to provide quality advice access to a panel of experts that are experts in their field um to help people create their wealth but one of the things I always talk about is you know it's not about what you make it's what you get to keep so I guess this whole journey for some people you know 50% of marriages as you've mentioned at the start can end in you know not the outcome you're looking for and if that situation has occurred the best thing you can do I guess is get great advice on how to extricate yourself from that for a limited amount of pain or or to ensure that you provide for your family or that your family are provided for in what is a really emotionally charged difficult confrontational very very vulnerable situation for people and the earlier you get that advice I think the better you are you can be set up to then resolve the matters um rather than your friends or a Facebook group saying you deserve to have 100% of the asset pull I think I think that's a really scary way to start um resolving matters with information that is is just not true and I guess we've just proven that with three of the things I've looked up on Google today that that that just simply aren't accurate yeah awesome look I think the next step if you if for for a listeners for a viewers if you are in this situation yourself if you've a family member uh that perhaps isn't this or a friend or someone in your your group your ecosystem your tribe the best thing you can do is to help them by by putting them in front of someone that does this expertly and has significant experience of really doing this so it's not me for sure I'm in the money side not the family law side but if you wanted to reach out and get in touch with them or I think we can use email ejl yes at heyam law that's hamily law.com there'll be a link somewhere around this page too and uh and share this because I think it's it's so critically important to not feel vulnerable and on your own it arguably what for so many people and not feel embarrassed I think a lot of people feel embarrassed um I'm always happy to have a chat so reach out um get advice early and usually that will assist the process it's really interesting that you use the word embarrassed I think so many people feel a level of Shame a lot do and and I guess on top of the vulnerability of of being in a very difficult situation con clad decision- making and so the quicker you can get expert helping a hand on the shoulder the more likely a better quality outcome in a in a tricky situation for you as I said Case by case basis but generally once you've had the good advice or any advice um then then you can make better better decisions awesome we'll make sure your email address is somewhere around this ejl heam law.com for those people that want to reach out directly Emma ludig thank you so much for making your time available for our audience and uh and for those of you that need help please do make sure you enlist the expert support of Emma and her team at hey family law so thanks M for joining us today pleasure thank you for having me there you have it guys make sure you give us a review and a rating and again please make sure you share this podcast with someone you know that may well benefit from having expert advice when it comes to family law and we'll see you next week