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join his night on center Steven Jones CEO of UK finance James Foley is a head of FX strategy at Rabobank and she is still with us let me take the conversation to yourself first of all Steven welcome oq MELAS welcome to our new shop lovely beautiful building thank you very very shiny send Mike an email by let's talk about financial services because the whole discussion about how we get to move on possibly to a trade negotiation a transition period it is almost in splendid isolation you have a proposal which calls for mutual recognition in terms of regulatory approach what does that mean is that joined up drafting a financial regulation what happened to what was it you said Adam Moore taking that country came back control look I think this is a very unusual trade negotiation it starts on the basis that we have harmonized regulatory systems between the UK and continental Europe and heavily interconnected financial services which means that European companies and institutions are very dependent on the provision of financial services from London and frankly there are quite a lot of financial services in London that are provided by banks that passport in yes to London from the European Union so when you start with that position you want to try and retain as much as that you can because of the mutual economic advantage and disadvantage frankly of disorderly disruption happening so we've constructed a very detailed framework for a trade in services agreement that could be part of a free trade agreement that starts as you say based on the concept of mutual recognition that is the regulator's work very closely together that is that regulations stay broadly aligned and and that there are detailed negotiating maps to the extent that you wish to diverge substantially outside the rails of the predetermined mutual recognition that you've agreed as part of this Agreement the key thing is you are partially taking back control you acknowledge that there is strong mutual interest in having rules and principles that are similar for markets where that is critical and what we're talking about here are really the wholesale financial markets we're talking about capital markets we're talking about derivatives we're talking about foreign exchange not necessarily talking about retail banking we're talking about those markets that already operate on a highly cross-border basis we're national barriers and national regulations actually have little bearing on what actually happens so you move together on the areas where it makes sense to move together and there's a allowed divergence or managed divergence I think you refer to it as in terms of the free trade agreement then that you want to see set up between the UK and the in the eu-27 free trade agreements don't normally include financial services or it hasn't you know the Canada one for example that many refer to has not how much of a challenge is is is is crafting something that works or is it all about the politics it's both I mean we've been drafting it we sought to use trade concept WTO concepts modes as they call them and recognize concepts within that so that it can fit within the language and the framework of a traditional agreement but you're absolutely right Sita the Canadian agreement which is being finalized with Brussels at the moment is far less ambitious than what we're proposing indeed what we've talked to the Canadian negotiators who've worked with Brussels on sita and they've said to us you absolutely do not want to accept this given the close interconnectedness between your financial services system and the EU compared to ours if you ended up in a seated position the UK would be substantially worse the Canadians being helpful then they're talking to us at the end of the day sharing war stories is always helpful in terms of figuring out how you're going to get a position agreed