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[Music] well hey welcome to all of you I want to say uh good morning and good afternoon wherever you might be streaming in and joining us today thrilled to have you here for another episode of the non-profit show today we have with us Joshua pusque with Roundtable technology and Joshua's here to talk to us about AI artificial intelligence so stay with us before we dive deep into this conversation with Joshua we want to remind you who we are so hello to Julia Patrick CEO of the American nonprofit Academy I'm Jarrett Ransom your non-profit nerd CEO of the Raven group and you know we are always so thrilled to have the continued support from our amazing sponsors you can see our our newest one right there in the middle for those of you watching but I'll give a shout out of course to be generous as our newest sponsor thank you so very much and also of course to Bloomerang American non-profit Academy fundraising Academy at National University your part-time controller Staffing Boutique non-profit thought leader and myself non-profit nerd we are thrilled to be here thrilled again to see this support growing in and around our community support you and your mission so if you missed any of our 600 plus episodes you know where to find us that would be Roku Youtube Amazon Fire TV as well as Vimeo there are so many archives for you to access at any time 24 7. so if you wake up in the middle of the night something you know startled you probably a challenge that you're facing within your non-profit you can go ahead and um you know get some resources there as well as podcasts so if you're a podcast listener like I am you can go ahead and queue up the non-profit show wherever you stream your podcast well Joshua you've been waiting so patiently and we know you've got a fun-filled calendar day so we don't want to keep you too very long but we definitely want to dive deep and again welcome Joshua peske Professional Services cyber security with round table technology welcome to you thank you so much it is an absolute pleasure to be here on your show yeah well we are really excited I mean um that's a hair on fire moment for us we talk about it you know at uh more and more and it it comes at us for from many different places and so before we get into AI which I'm just fascinated by this conversation share with us what Roundtable technology does sure where it's referred to as a managed services provider which if you're not familiar with that term essentially a technology provider to non-profit organizations so if you have a non-profit you know with 5 10 or 25 staff you may not have an I.T person so we might handle all of your technology and strategy if you're 100 or 200 maybe you have some internal I.T resources but they need some help and so we can provide that help or again be your full I.T provider and then if you're 500 or a thousand staff or larger than that maybe you want some strategic help maybe you're a COO or a CFO that got saddled with managing the technology team yeah really a technology person so you're like I don't know if they're good or if they're you know then we can help with that as well and so that's we kind of fit into all those little spots amazing thank you that that's great and I love that you can work with a non-profit where they are at that point in time that's super cool I think that's critical in the nonprofit space to kind of understand you know they they can't do the things that you know uh wealthy for-profits can do in terms of just just you know fitting into the uh the round hole every time so you've gotta try to meet them where they are for sure and one last question about Roundtable technology I'm assuming you can really go with a non-profit wherever they might be in North America or just the us or you're you know no we work with uh with organizations with International presence quite a few actually um where we we have operations in a few different Metro areas so we're we're in Maine we're in New York City and the New York metro area we're in the Dallas Fort Worth area we have a lot of Personnel in those locations but we do serve organizations all over the country and in fact all over the world apologize inspiring as we talked about before I'm sort of uh stuck in a car in a little bit of heat so I got the AC going but it was a little warm here so no you would have never known for those of you joining us that were with us in the Green Room chatter Joshua is actually joining us um outside the State Fair of Minnesota that's correct yep Minnesota and he's on his last day of vacation and he's gonna jump in or jump out of the car and run in and find some great fair food with the rest of the family as soon as this is done but before we let you go what the heck AI and non-profits for-profits what's up with this everything sure well I wanted to start this with um a sort of riddle and you may have heard it before but and and and follow me with where I'm going but we'll and if you haven't heard this that's okay but so imagine you've got a lake okay and it's totally clear and then on day one one Lily Pad appears okay and we're gonna say that this Lily Pad doubles every day so day two I've got two lily pads day three I've got four lily pads and by day 30 okay the entire lake is covered in lily pads so the first part of the riddle which you may know the answer to is on what day is the lake half full of lily pads don't know the answer time so just give us the answer sure so it's the 29th day because of course if it's doubling every day then it will be half full the day before it's completely full okay but the the harder question and I'll just give you the answer is what day is the lake one percent covered in lily pads okay and that's actually the 24th day which I think is very non-intuitive and the reason I'm going into this is the idea of AI and the way it's impacting us is something that is not intuitive to a lot of people because it's following an exponential growth and we're used to linear growth which kind of goes you know maybe it dips but it goes in a linear line exponential growth if you imagine yourself on this Lake right and you're kind of not noticing any lily pads not notice any little pads on day 24 right after lily pads have been growing for 24 or 30 days you're like oh there's a handful of LeapPads over there six days later it's entirely full I'm gonna propose that we may be at a moment like that with AI where for 10 years for 20 years for 30 years we've been hearing AI is going to have this impact AI is going to change our lives AI is going to do all this and it's this slow growth wow and we might be right at this point where it's going to shoot up like day 24 on that Lake that's going to be covered in lily pads in 30 days and so the rest of this we'll talk about as we talk about these things I want people to kind of if you felt like it's been hyped it may still be it may still be a few more years or even a decade before we really see big impacts but I just want to warn people that exponential growth like what we're seeing in AI is not intuitive to humans in terms of how fast it makes an impact yeah I'll say I'm really bad at riddles but but I love that analogy and the story that you shared because it has definitely overcome us I was at the AFP icon conference in Las Vegas this year and Technology Joshua was like covered it was the lily pads of the lake in the conference and all I saw really was technology and artificial intelligence AI really was you know surfacing up so I appreciate that and I'm certainly starting to see the lily pads and I'm I'm rowing and there's a lily pad every place every place I wrote for sure yep wow so you talk about I mean first of all that's like the hair on fire moment and I love that you you started out this conversation that way because for me what you just said makes it real and makes it that shocking thing that you said is that you don't see any change and then all of a sudden it's on us so one of those things that you uh are going to bring up or talk to us is about blogging it with AI and what is this and what is specifically Jasper sure um well Jasper is one company that's really using a a technology that's referred to as GPT three okay and well there's a lot to unpack here but there's a company that was formed called open AI I think around 10 years ago by you know a bunch of smarty pants and they are working on a number of different projects there's another one that we'll probably talk about that you may have heard about called doll e and these are um learning networks all right that they feed huge amounts of data and then gpt3 specifically is a language processing engine and it the three is because it's the third generation of this and to go back to our kind of Lily Pad exponential growth it's been all of I want to say four or five years since GPT one came out and each iteration which we're taking on average about one and a half to two years are orders of magnitude more powerful than the previous one so GPT one people were kind of like oh that's interesting it can write some sentences and they're kind of you know almost good grammar gpt2 they were like oh that's pretty cool it can really write full-on sentences and write stories and write a little bit of simple code and then gpt3 came out you know about a year and a half ago and people were wow I cannot tell the difference between content written by gpt3 versus a human and there's something that you may have heard of called the touring test where which is basically can I have a human being in a you know a chat or in a computer and can a human tell the difference in many respects we're there now right if I allow a human to ask questions in in plain language of a human and that human types and answers and gpt3 types and answers most humans can't really tell the difference between who's answering at this point and so Jasper is a tool that roundtable's been using now for many months to write content and many organizations are doing this and it allows you to take what might have been four hours of my time or one of my colleagues time to write a cyber security article whereas now our marketing manager whose name is Justin funnily enough so Justin and Jasper work together right um once I kind of showed Justin how Jasper worked and how to generate articles and the process that I was using he will now generate with Jasper in the span of half an hour you know a 1 000 page article on let's say you know the latest phishing scams he'll send it to me I'll review it in 10 minutes and that goes out and that previously would have been maybe four hours of my work to write that blog post for our marketing person so when we talk about this content generation like a lot of organizations are using this to generate content today a lot of the content you're seeing is in fact written by some combination of an AI like Jasper or other companies that are leveraging gpt3 to provide writing tools copy.ai is another one writer r-y-t-r is another they all are basically um using that GPT engine and then charging you a fee to provide you with an interface so that you don't have to be a programmer to use it I was gonna ask about that investment like what are we talking by way of dollars because if we're saving four hours of a professional's time but we're trading that for an AI what does that equate to in savings uh well it's you know horrifically expensive it's twenty dollars a month for jasper.ai to write I think a hundred thousand words but hourly rate Roundtable puts me out but let's just say that I think the time we're saving is is very good return on investment for Roundtable um for sure you're a little more than 20. and the quality of these articles is is you know I would still argue that that given four hours I could write an article that's maybe 20 25 better than what Justin and Jasper are putting out but that's today yeah that's it now ept4 is due any time now so it's even going to be more let me ask you this we talk so much about SEO uh work and in understanding how we need to be there with our websites um when when Google spidering you know our website are looking through things can they discern that this is something that's been crafted through AI versus Josh this is the million billion Trill maybe even trillion dollar question that people are wondering about Google is saying they want to work to um have the SEO prefer human generated content what I haven't heard anyone from Google or anywhere else say is how they will possibly do that when humans can't tell the difference between human generated content and AIG I'm not sure how Google is going to tell the difference and why also if if Google's job is to put out put up front what is the best content right if I'm searching for what's the best live non-profit television show that goes four times a week right five times a week five times a week sorry you know whether you know that's the non if some AI generated show is actually of providing better content somehow why wouldn't Google put that forward right over the humans if that really was the better content if you're the better content then it should continue to prefer you so we'll see where that where that lands but it is it's not clear to me nor have I heard anybody make a coherent technology technological argument how you know things will be able to tell there there is there are ways to tell things like deep s photo editing you know there are there are techniques you can use to try to tease those things apart and say this video seems deep d here's some reasons right text is pretty I don't know how you decide if something's written by a human written by a man yeah wow but what I hear you saying is it seems to me that there is some sort like with Justin you know you're talking about your your partner in crime so to speak um he's still going to flesh out some things and add some Nuance or phraseology right it's not just like uh okay I looked at it go there's some sort of human engagement at this point right absolutely and and I think this is you know as has always been the case with technology going all the way back to you know John Henry was a steel driving man and steam engines and you know and cars replacing horse carriages and you know people immediately go all the jobs are going to go away and somehow you know new jobs emerge and you know the three of us are all doing jobs that didn't exist when we were in school and you know that that's fine right and we've adjusted and we figured it out we're on technology that didn't you know we're talking to each other in technology that didn't exist none of the companies behind you with the exception of maybe two or three existed so the changes occur what I would say right now the skill that I would encourage your audience to be exploring is how do I use these tools and become skilled at feeding the prompts into a an AI content generating tool whether it's an image generator or a text generator that produces content of the greatest value and quality so what Justin is doing right is leveraging AI tools out of HubSpot never to figure out what is the SEO terms what are the folks that are in our target market searching for and maybe it's they're searching for phishing attacks right you know cyber security whatever it is he then will go say okay let's come up with an article maybe he'll run those by me he'll say here's five articles what do you think that all look good from an SEO standpoint what feels the most relevant to you Josh I'll say I like these two he'll come back with the article I make a few edits and that collaboration be between Justin our marketing manager Jasper Rai collaborator and me subject matter expert so to speak that allows us to really really quickly produce a lot of what we think is really good quality content um you know at a high level so wow I have to ask how are we in particular the non-profit sector because you know there's so many small non-profits and how we Define small is different but I'm thinking there's so many viewers and listeners that are going I don't have a Justin I certainly don't have a Jasper like you know I I really just know R2D2 and that was in a movie so that's that's what I you know my title is actually three CPO so I love that so yeah how will this impact the sector um I mean that's who knows right um the they're going to be the only thing going back to the lilypad examples I think the impacts will be huge and already are huge I think the things that I would that I would encourage people to look at when you think of the small nonprofits that you were just talking about Jared um you can have a Jasper you can have a writer you can have a copy AI because these are not expensive tools right and now you have the ability to generate content in the same way right and at the same pace and scale that Enterprise and this is what where I think non-profits fear technology sometimes and fear the changes of it when in fact a lot of these changes really democratize powerful technologies that become available to everyone and social media for all of its ills right provided platforms for non-profits that were the same platforms that Fortune 500 companies are using and if they can produce a compelling message and create an audience then they have every bit as much love Bridge as a massive Corporation so I would encourage people to learn how to use these tools I also think non-profits are uniquely situated to really dig into the ethics of these tools particularly when we start getting I mean content generation has its own ethic you know ethics around it but when we start getting into using AI for something called Ada um automated decision process ADP right automated decision processes or automated decision systems where we want to evaluate who's available for low-income mortgages and we can only evaluate so many applications in a month so that that's a limiter on our ability to provide mortgages to needy families well if we can create an automated system maybe we can 10x 20x the number of mortgages we can put out however right these data sets that are being used to create these automated Data Systems carry with them all the biases and systematic Prejudice that came from the data it was there so you know if there was redlining going on in the data that we used to Divine then we're going to have an AI That's going to continue redlining which is obviously horrible and a lot of for-profits and corporations are kind of moving fast and breaking things and I think nonprofits have a real place to say hey we want to use this stuff but we want to use it ethically and we want to point out where others are using it in ways that aren't ethical right and and really try to dig into that because I think there's a lot of mess that can happen with AI but also a lot of wonderful wonderful things that could happen creating AI at all and even in a much larger way Josh like how can we protect our cyber security knowing that usually for small shops medium shops you know the person that's doing I.T and the technology is simply the person that knows where to plug in the right cord right so like how are we going to manage cyber security and and the potential risk of that so I would say the upshot there is that you know there are some really as someone who lives and works in the cyber security world and and with a lot of people who have very significant threat models so you know the human rights journalists working internationally activists working internationally so people that are um being you know under surveillance from nation states and have really legitimate threats I can say from those folks to you know the community theater you know in Oklahoma um there are really Basics and fundamentals that are still incredible effective and these are simple things like training your staff and there's lots of free materials we offer every year something called the best free one-hour cyber security awareness training ever it's under the mouthful our seventh annual is coming up this January it's free for everybody we actually give away money at the training and we try to make it really fun and entertaining that's a really simple free thing you can do also things like multi-factor authentication so making sure that for all of your critical accounts I'm sure everybody's heard it a million times I'm here to say it is really critical and at this point your insurers aren't going to insure you if you don't have those things in place so that becomes really important um but those two things just making sure that you're securing the accounts you know that people log in with making sure you're training your staff and then I would say the last one is just you know this little Annoying updates you get on your phone and everything run them as soon as you get them yeah that is that is these are simple mostly free things that you can do that really improve your cyber security posture a tremendous amount oh my gosh I have learned so much I'm a little overwhelmed but I am also really glad to know that Roundtable is here in our community communities plural right um and to know that uh there's so many smarty pants like yourself Josh that can help us um I'm just smart at the things that I do I think the beauty of the nonprofit sector and you know is everybody's smart at their job and I view my job as you know taking the stuff that feels overwhelming to you and trying to help you with that so that you can do the stuff you're great at right yeah I agree that's why I call myself the non-profit nerd like you know if we're talking I.T and cyber security I don't know if you notice but my eyes might have glazed over just a tiny bit yeah but just because these are like these are things that I I am not you know truly aware of and Julie I'm curious from you like you said hair on fire you know a couple of times but this is some serious conversation and I I think we're gonna need a lot more of this I think we are too I I want to make sure Josh I know that there's there's a chance that we might lose you shortly I think my battery's holding up I'm just gonna wipe a little sweat off the brow here okay yeah no no it's all good we've even made you sweat that's like intense right hey you know Joshua pesky professional um Services cyber security Roundtable technology yeah you've really given me some new things to think about I think one of the the Lessons Learned for me today was how quickly things can change how change can sneak up on us I think that's your Lily Pad piece I'm gonna forever hold that in my heart because that that goes with a lot of things so thank you thank you for sharing that that was genius and the other piece of it is and Jared I don't know if you heard this but Joshua was like you know a lot of times we fear change and we think that technology specifically is going to erupt our labor market and and what who and what we need but ultimately it it actually challenges us to bring in more people and so I thought that was really interesting because we we worry about that a lot in the nonprofit sector you know who's going to do this work and where are we going to find these people so I thought that was a really interesting piece of the discussion but yeah I just want to say like I really encourage folks to not be your technology or think of Technology as replacing work but think of it as a collaborator like we talk about Jasper now as a collaborator as though the tool was kind of a colleague or an employee of ours and and in all the ways that that's true in terms of the ethics of it of needing to you know monitor the behavior and the outputs of of that collaborator but if you think of these as collaborators that can bring huge amounts of value to your organization if you know how to work with them right I love that and and thank you for sharing that and I also um I'm also surprised that you've used the word ethics probably four or five times in this conversation not in a negative way but like bringing this back to saying yeah there's some things to think about yeah as a best practice yeah when I when I think of that lily pad and I've and some of the things that I'm seeing you know I'm I'm simultaneously really excited and really afraid because you know this is I think in in a lot of different ways the most powerful technology that humans have encountered and if you know there there's the potential to change our world in really beautiful and incredible ways and there's of course the potential for for outcomes that we don't want and the nonprofits are situated in that way to keep an eye on that and really try to as much as they can put a hand on the scale and hope that it works out in humans favor Joshua please join us again I um I really appreciate and just want to honor the fact that you made this conversation very like doable you know again for someone that that this isn't my my native language I really appreciate it and uh you helped me understand the importance um of of the focus on this so I really do hope that you will come back maybe bring Jasper next time absolutely we could do a live demo we can write an article we can create some images we can even make a video you know that would be super cool that would be super cool but just so you know Jarrett Ransom the non-profit nerd and myself Julia Patrick we are sentient people we are here real people yeah we we have something for now we can do right I'm just a robot the perspirations just to you out make you think of it that's right sure man back on because I know today I'm gonna have a just a lot more questions that kind of filter in through my day about things that you've said and that's one of the wonderful things about the non-profit show it always leaves um me and I know Jared you and I have talked about this it leaves us thinking and how powerful is that and again the power of that thought comes to all of us with our Partnerships for their sponsors so we want to make sure as we end our time with Joshua today to remind everyone that Bloomerang American nonprofit Academy Staffing Boutique fundraising Academy at National University your part-time controller and our new sponsor be generous along with non-profit nerd they're here every day and they help us have these conversations um which is super cool so we want to say thank you very very much we also want to say as especially Joshua you need to hear this because you're going to go in and eat fair food we end every episode with this Mantra stay well so you can do well today it has a culinary reference I'm going to be very unwell in about four hours but ate too much fried food on a stick but uh but that's okay it's what I'm signing up for with my kids enjoy it to the max thank you for joining us thank you so much for having me and thank you so much for the work you both do it's really terrific so thank you thank you hey it's been wonderful and again stay well so you can do well we'll see you back here tomorrow everyone foreign [Music] [Music]