Unlocking eSignature Legitimacy for Planning in Mexico with airSlate SignNow

How to eSign a document: eSignature legitimacy for Planning in Mexico

is it annuities you don't like or is it the annuity commissions this is retirement revealed where Jeremy Kyle and his guests guide you towards making smarter retirement investment and tax planning decisions welcome to retirement revealed I'm your host Jeremy Kyle and we're here to turn your retirement savings into retirement income today we're talking with David Lao about the world of annuities and why he thinks he has a better way for you to buy an annuity David welcome to the show thanks Jeremy really happy to be here look forward to the discussion yeah well annuities are controversial and you've chosen to be in a u position where you get to talk a lot about these uh controversial investment products but before we do that tell us a little bit more about yourself so I'm the founder CEO of DPL Financial Partners I've spent most of my career in financial services doing some version of what we're doing now which is changing Financial Services products to eliminate expensive distribution to produce better products for the end consumer so back in the mid90s I was the chief marketing officer of the first internet Bank in the country and the notion behind the bank was a branch is just a really expensive way of selling and servicing commodity banking products and if you could eliminate the branch and have customers do business with you directly you could provide far better you know interest rates on banking products which you could I mean we were consistently the highest rates in the country on CDs more than double the national average on money market accounts etc etc so it was just really eliminating that that you know expensive overhead you know within the product you know that's designed for distribution uh that really helps the consumer and we're doing kind of the same thing here at at DPL and you know other you know I spent my time building an insurance carrier before this a carrier called Jefferson National which was again focused on no load Insurance products uh so we could drop you know consist you drop considerably the cost of the product for the end consumer yeah I think a lot of that uh thought on the cost in the world of banking it's um it's the branches it's the the brick and mortar I suppose that costs drives up a lot of cost I think the of annuities and the big knock annuities is the high fees which I think often the high fees are because of the high commission so tell me why why are there all these high commissions with annuities and and what are you doing to um to change that hopefully yeah so when you when you opened up and you talked about annuities being controversial that's why they're controversial because they've traditionally been high commission high cost High complexity products which make them controversial among advisers if you like commissions you love annuities if you don't accept commissions if you're a someone who works on fees from your clients then you never like annuities because one you couldn't get paid they actually represent lost lost Revenue potentially for you but also you didn't like the product costs uh be that were that were jacked up because of because of the uh the commissions but they've never been controversial with retirement researchers with Nobel prizewinning economists you know people who study retirement love annuities because they play such a valuable role you know in retirement it's just been a shame that they've been controversial because of this compensation so what we did at my previous company and now what I've taken to the rest of the industry in building DPL is we work with carriers to eliminate the commission out of products and now you wonder what does that mean It generally means you're dropping the price of the product the cost of the product by 50 to 80% which is massive for the end consumer so you're taking a variable annuity which might cost on average I think it's 142 basis points for a v commission variable annuity you now take that commission out of it and now we've got products that cost 10 basis points 25 basis points uh you know that's you know 0.25% you know for you know consumers n you know familiar with basis points but you're dropping that cost massively for the end consumer and then the consumer can actually reap the benefits that are that are given by an annuity which is tax deferral and lifetime income and and principal protection and things like that yeah it's interesting how um you said that the Nobel Prize winners and economists love annuities I think it's retirees in general of annuities uh it's funny how many of them say they they hate annuities and they by annuity but they're very proud of their pension they're very proud of their social security which is an annuity uh pension and social security are basically a no load no fee annuity in a way and so uh maybe you're you're you're take kicking out the stuff that people don't like and and hopefully leaving the things that they they do like which which is a consistent monthly income or just some sort of guarantee exactly yeah exactly to your point sorry to cut you off there but exactly to the point people like the benefits that annuity brings that annuity can bring to their retirement and it's just the controversy you you read you when you read about annuities often in the Press they talk about you know some high commission salesperson you know doing something inappropriate for some you know some senior citizen you know taking advantage of them things you know things like that and that's one of the other bad sides of high commissions you're incentivizing you know aggressive potentially bad sales Behavior but when you ask people potential retirees or people thinking about retirement do you want a guaranteed stream of income that's going to last your lifetime the answer is yes yes I do I I'd like to I'd like to have that do you want an annuity I don't think I want an annuity right so you you you have that controversy built into the product category because of the commission you know sales Behavior Uh but really consumers want you know and potential retirees want the products they want the benefits um they just don't want a you know commissioned salesperson pushing one on them yeah it's interesting it's like the um people like the economic benefits they just don't like the high fees and the sales people part of it they they wouldn't mind the low fees and the advice part of it I hear from people all the time that say oh I have this annuity and and I haven't talked to the person that sold it to me in six years well of course they haven't made a commission in six years and then all of a sudden the the annuity uh salesperson starts calling them up um I just had one recently where uh I met the uh the the client I met him let's see here about 4 and A2 years ago they had this annuity the surrender charge was like 30 grand or something and I also had figured out okay this is not worth uh paying 30 grand to to to lose out on this this I mean that's a big that's a big fee uh but then there's some guarantees that are with it I said these actually really good and I've been looking around you can't find any better guarantees than what uh they currently have and so I said well just go get the um the latest statement so they get the latest statement they met with the an nudy salesperson who was saying hey you should buy this other one it's better I I looked at left to right apples the apples it is not better uh but there's now a 15 grand fee and the uh advisor would get probably about a 12 or 15,000 commission so it's a it's interesting here that uh all a sudden the the new and the commission seems to be the better way to go when you're talking to the the salespeople that that's right I mean that's the other you know one of the other problems I should say you know with the commission model is the the broker who sold it can't get paid again until they sell another one so you know going back to their previous customers is often a way that they do that they sold you that annuity like you're saying it's you know off a seven-year surrender meaning a lockup period you're locked up for 7 years is a very typical one but they can extend 14 years 15 years you know on on some products where you're locked up but seven years in a day from the time that that broker sold it to you they're probably calling you again saying hey I've got a you know the next best thing uh because they need to get paid again so it's you know many you know one of the many things that is is broken for the consumer in the commission Insurance model yeah you mention these surrender periods I was uh I I knew of one that was so long and I've got the uh the records from it I met somebody and uh they had already bought a annuity so I had the information on it and uh I looked at it here I just looked it up again I I couldn't believe this when I saw it I thought uh it was back in 2005 they bought this annuity with a 17year surrender charge so 17 years you're locked in and the uh penalty was as high as 20% uh for the first uh few years it was even a 14% uh surrender charge penalty that you'd have to pay 14% when you're at year 10 so 10 years later which you're saying is maybe on the long end and this one particular I new what I saw they still had a 14% uh fee if they got out early just um just amazing and ridiculous really yeah I mean that's you know there there are bad products in in every industry you know that that's an example of a really bad product I mean I I don't know how those products get approved but the it's you know those are the kinds of things that give annuities a bad name but when you eliminate all that nonsense you eliminate the long surrenders you eliminate the commissions and because the long surrenders are there generally to recoup the commission meaning the insurance carrier another I'll blend this in another trick of the commissioned annuity salesperson that they'll give to the client is oh you don't pay me anything when the client asks how do you get paid oh you don't pay me anything meaning the insurance carrier is paying me but you are paying them you're just doing it through higher fees paid year after year not the big lump sum up front the insurance carrier pays that lump sum um you to the you know to the broker upfront but then they increase the fees and they put in that lockup period called The Surrender period so that they make sure they get their money back right and then some you know with you know with the uh the fees and the surrender so when you get rid of those things and you boil down the product to what it is designed to be which is a tax deferred product designed to give you lifetime income the benefits of that product structure are really good you just don't want to mess it up with you know High commissions and surrender periods and high expenses yeah I I like how you talked about that as a tax defer product designed to pay you a lifetime income a lot of times when I see uh some of annuity um they're already in a traditional Ira type of account where they already had the tax referral and they uh so it's not saying that all annuities inside a traditional IRA are bad it's just um that's one of the benefits of annuity is the tax referral and your IRA type of money already has that and so that's one thing to kind of keep in mind or then the idea of the lifetime income uh a lot of times I have someone show up and they they're showing me what they already have and they say hey this account makes uh 5% well actually it doesn't make 5% it's uh it's a some sort of income design that could pay them 5% and they're paying a fee for it and I asked them you know do you need money out oh no I don't even need the money at all I just wanted to get the 5% so it's interesting that uh if you're not buying the annuity for tax tax referral if you're not buying it to actually get the lifetime income at some point in time uh start asking yourself why am I buying the annuity is that's right well I mean there are different I mean there are different kinds of products that you might buy like a you know what's known as a MGA multi guaranteed annuity which is like a CD right so maybe you're just doing it for that reason you're getting you know you're getting tax deferral again with the you know with the because it's annuity then you're just getting a fixed interest rate you know like a CD and and they pay actually very competitive rates even more competitive than banks these days so you might have that in that particular kind of product but you know to your point for most products that are designed for Lifetime income you know for creating that you know income stream during retirement if you're not going to use it for that why why did you buy it you know but you can to be fair I mean there are products people buy for the downside protection aspect of it which which is also you know can be valuable you know as you get near and and into retirement as you know to help prevent or protect from sequence risk meaning the market goes down when you're in the kind of golden years you know five years before and after retirement you know that can really have a material impact on your on your ability to meet your retirement goals so protecting your downside with some features and in annuities can also be appealing you know for those reasons yeah so I'm hearing so far that uh you might want to buy an annuity or get into an annuity if you are looking for tax referral or you want lifetime income uh or it's kind of like replacing a CD you're just getting an interest rate that replaces like a a CD kind of uh comparison whichever when happens to be paying better at the time or the downside protection you know those are the reasons you're you're maybe looking at at annuity and what's interesting too is uh it seems like uh there's this uh love haate with annuities whether it's uh you know investor or it's a um you know advisor and they kind of this one siiz fits-all piece of okay all annuities are good or all annuities are bad or everyone should have annuities or everyone shouldn't uh but you're part of this group uh this um profile tell me about the retirement income style awareness profile which I think just says uh everyone's different and generally speaking you should find the type of Investments that fit your um demeanor or or goals the best yeah tell me more about this retirement income style awareness profile yeah that I mean it that's a it's a relatively new thing that was you know put together by uh Dr Wade fou and Alex Mia you know per a PhD in Psychology so you know most consumers I'm sure if they work with a financial advisor or they've invested you know through a platform like Schwab or Fidelity have gone through you know a risk tolerance assessment when they're making their Investments you know understanding how risk uh tolerant or averse are you as an investor are you really worried about losing money do you you know do you roll with the punches as the market goes up and down you know you get you get classified as a conservative ative a moderate an aggressive investor you know whatever you know whatever it might be and a lot of people are familiar with that and that was a lot of financial services for many decades is really focused on accumulation which is what that risk tolerance you know questionnaire is about like while you're accumulating wealth pre-retirement how do you feel about taking risk but it doesn't really address how do you feel about risking your income in retirement which is a different question right it's are you okay with your income fluctuating with the market you know or do you want more certainty in your income are you okay taking risk that you could outlive your money or do you want some more contractual guarantees that will make sure that doesn't happen so the the Risa as it's known retirement income style awareness is a questionnaire developed by Alex and Wade um which you know I happen to serve on the board of ad advisors I've known those guys a long time uh is a questionnaire for consumers to go through to identify their retirement income style so are you again are you are you someone who's you know can be committed to a strategy or do you want flexibility do you want certainties and guarantees or are you okay with variability and so it's asking those questions to determine like how do you want your income delivered so very few people actually are okay with having the market dictate their retirement income uh which is understandable you know most people something like 70% want some sort of guaranteed part of their retirement income uh which you know jives with a lot of academic research you know people like to have certainty in their retirement and when they don't they can be very uncomfortable in retirement those are the people who you know worry and watch the stock market every you know every day is it up is it down what's going on my income could be impacted and so what the Rea is is a tool to help you identify what your style is and then you can work with your financial advisor or you can Implement yourself you know how you deliver your own retirement income yeah it feels like it's kind of moving to uh two-dimensional where the standard risk tolerance question here like you said is just the Investments how much of the ups and downs are you willing to put up with the um the Investments well now you got the other side of it on the income how much of the ups and downs of your income are you willing to put up with it um which is interesting too I'm thinking back at 2008 how a lot of people look at uh Bank you know Bank type of product so I got a CD and uh I can't lose on it well actually the the income on CDs from 07 to you know one and a half years later the bottom of 09 uh the income on those cities dropped 90% but the Investments uh only dropped 50% no one likes seeing a 50% drop but it's interesting how the income if you thought uh you weren't um you know you weren't taking on any risk well your income out of that dropped 90% And I think that's where uh this idea of maybe the annuities are there or something to uh something to provide that guaranteed income uh it's interesting sometimes people come to me because they've read an article and they well I think I should get an annuity and uh of course you got the investment risk to think about now it's the income risk to think about uh but a question I like to ask them is well how much of your income do you want guaranteed you know either a dollar amount or a percentage amount and then uh a lot of times the answer is uh well I need 7,000 a month guaranteed well wonderful between your pension and your Social Security you're at 8,000 a month you know so do you need to actually go buy something that probably pays a commission to somebody else uh just to uh just to get more when you've already got more than you need already but then again not everyone has a pension less and L people have pensions and they're definitely um going away uh over time so you probably do need some sort of uh lifetime income guarantee if that's what you're you're looking for so if I guess the question I have is if the commissions are now gone uh In from from your world how do the advisers actually get these products to their clients well they I mean advisors can get them you know through you know through us they can get you know they get products you know through us and and you're you're basically recommending you know to your client that they you know could use an annuity whether it's for principal protection whether it's for income you know in you know in their retirement plan and then you know we facilitate the the purchase of the product you know through the insurance carrier so you know we we act as the agent you know we put the we put the you know policy in place and then the advisor gets to act as the adviser of record um on the policy so they can manage it for their client and you know in that way it works very much like a custodial account so if you're an adviser and you have your clients maybe they're custodi with Schwab or Fidelity uh and then the client actually owns the assets and has the account with them but the adviser through a power of attorney has the ability to manage you know manage the assets it's basically the same thing with with the annuity policy except the custodians now the insurance carrier instead of schwaber fidelity so you know going going back to your you know the conversation relative to you know income and how much do you need and how how do people think about that well you know a lot of people think about it in terms of matching that guaranteed income amount to their essential expenses right so what what can you not do without like what you know your health care your home your your your housing your food um for me it's golf you know I I want to make sure my golf's included in my Essential expenses um what do you want to include in there and let's make sure it's covered by guaranteed income so like you said if you if you everyone's got Social Security so let's look at what that projects to be you know maybe you have a pension more and more people to your point don't you know that's part of why annuities are more important today only about 20% of people have a pension pretty much if you're you know outside of you know a union or a govern government employee you're not likely to have a pension these days so looking at you know covering your essential expenses which is what helps people sleep at night you know during retirement I know my Essential stuff is covered for my lifetime with guaranteed income then your discretionary spending your vacations your dinners out your you know entertainment things like that you can leave that because they're discretionary and variable to the market you know the market goes up and down and so if the Market's up you can take a better vacation you know if you choose to the Market's down maybe you don't go out to dinner quite as much you know things like that and um a lot of people think about it in in those kind of terms which seem to make a great deal of sense to Consumers yeah it's uh and it's how do you go about it it's again that's income risk Hance do you are you looking for half your income to be guaranteed or 25% or all of your Essentials and everything else is kind of on top of that it's uh actually thinking about this ahead of time as opposed to I think jumping at something that uh is kind of flashy like oh I can get 5% out of this well it seems like um most of the time when someone's bringing a statement to me they're not saying oh I bought this because I wanted the guaranteed lifetime income or the downside protection of the tax referral they basically said hey this is a great account I got 5% guaranteed like okay they're definitely a cart before the horse here where look at the reasons why you might want the guarantees or the tax referral in some way and then go out and find the product that might fit it best whatever that might be so it's it's interesting a lot of times um I hear the office say like how great is this thing well did you even eat it you know right right well I mean the reason you know e economists and retirement researchers really like annuities is not only for the longevity protection which you know everybody kind of understands you get that payment for life which helps prevent that fear and risk of outliving your money it's one of the biggest fears you know retirees have you know what happens if I outlive my resources well annuities and other sources of guaranteed income can help mitigate that risk but what they really like is the efficiency of income so you know annuities will produce income more efficiently meaning you'll get more income per dollar in an annuity than you will in bonds or other fixed income you know Investments so you know a lot of re researchers will focus on your retirement portfolio should look like annuities and equities not equities and bonds because annuities are just more efficient plus they bring in those risk mitigating factors like sequence risk protection you know that we talked about earlier and Longevity risk protection and meaning now okay you use the annuity because it will generate more income per dollar uh which is you know we've got a lot of tools on our you know website you know available for people to look at we give you know people the ability to compare fixed income to annuities uh compare annuities to annuities uh that's one of the things we do differently as well uh usually when you're working with annuities and a commissioned broker they're just selling you their favorite product you know to your point of why did you buy it why did they sell it to you was there a needs match here you know it really wasn't it's just here's my favorite product it's got some feature I think you'll really like I.E the 5% or whatever it is and so I think I can sell it we take we go with the approach of tell us what your need is and we're going to find the best product to meet that need and so we've got a lot of tools that you know will help you do that you as a an advisor for your client or as consumer directly yep I like it yeah you start with the um start with the goal first and then you fill in the rest versus the other way around of uh let me just you know find this uh way that maybe a particular product whatever it is uh can can um fit fit the most people although it's interesting here too and I want to talk about this real real quick uh while we're talking about annuities uh it seems like there are some some commonalities depending on who your advisor or where your advisor is coming from that uh maybe might might give you a thought on on where the advisor is recommending uh certain things so I'm going to break it down here to there's more ways that a financial advisor is what a lot of consumers just don't don't quite realize is that there's a lot of different ways that a financial adviser can uh work with you can be affiliated with other advisors uh I'm going to break it down to three I'm sure there's there's definitely more in that uh one of them is a big brokerage wirehouse like Morgan Stanley maril Lynch uh another one is uh registered investment advisors yeah you might hear them Market themselves as fiduciary independent advisors and then another one is insurance company financial advisors and I'm I'm in Milwaukee so that might be like a Northwestern Mutual or maybe someone that that's connected to you know New York Life or some some big one uh like that and there's definitely more than that but kind of thinking of those three areas the big brokerage the register investment advisor uh kind of an insurance company financial advisor uh you probably see what types of products those clients probably have that came from those channels uh what would you say as maybe a strength for each Channel and maybe what do you see as a as a bias well the I mean the I'll start with the bias first because that that's kind of easy you know a lot of times when advisor is Affiliated you know with a larger company like that like a Northwestern Mutual like a a Mara Lynch you know a Goldman Sachs whatever it might be uh you know Morgan Stanley they are often going to start with their own products so they're going to start a relationship and a conversation about a Northwestern Mutual it's going to be a whole life policy you need this whole life policy as the basis of your financial plan uh and then we'll fill out you know behind that kind of what you were saying just a minute ago right of you don't start with the product and fill in behind it you start with the needs you know and those kind of advisers generally start that way um then in those wirehouse examples you know they're they're again going to lean towards proprietary product they're going to use other products but a maril Lynch advisor is going to probably recommend a lot of maril Lynch products um so they're you know you're getting somebody who's representing in the company you know as well as representing we're trying to serve you as a client you know with the raia world you know reg you know fiduciaries but also you know a key word with you know those fiduciary advisers are independent you know so they're independent of product manufacturing companies which those wirehouses and insurance carriers are so they also they not only provide that Financial advice they manufacture product so they want their advisers to use their product s raas are not affiliated with a product manufacturer they're independent and so they're free to use the best products for their client to meet their client needs and and that's why I've always been attracted you know to the raia market and trying you know DPL is a lot about trying to give raas more tools to better serve their clients um and so you see you know Ras can you know generally be more free about you know what they're recommending how they're thinking about products but when it's come to annuities it's always been a problem for raas because they've been commissioned and as fiduciary independent advisors raas cannot accept commissions uh which I wholeheartedly believe in because to me when you're when you're receiving a commission as you are in many of those other channels you're working as an appointed agent of the product manufacturer they're the ones paying you you're working for them you're interfacing with the client on their behalf with an raia because they're not taking a commission they're working wholly for the client the client is paying them they're they're being paid for advice and you know so their product selection is agnostic uh to finding the best things for their you know for their client yeah it's interesting too because um I've been uh associated with the uh kind of the insurance company type of channel it's called a channnel uh if you're listening and you're you're wondering what these uh advisor focused guys are talking about right now but the uh the insurance Focus channel it's interesting and then also I part of Financial Planning Association I get to talk to a lot of different uh advisers and it's it's really interesting that a lot of times the um it's almost like the solution that the adviser thinks of first has a lot to do with almost like the Heritage or the channel that they're they're coming from uh and I kind of a knock on the insurance company side is oh all they do is uh sell the insurance well then again uh on the registered investment advisor side they're maybe not selling the insurance that people people need so it's a it's a tough balance and I think what you're saying is that the on the independent side if you can get as close to that as possible but then all of a sudden you've lost out on this ability or connection to things that people need like the insurance or the annuities uh you know that's a that's an issue so you're trying to get rid of that issue by saying okay if even though you're in the register investment advisor Channel you can still find the insurance and the annuities uh that people are people are looking for so it's it's interesting it's it's like I said uh this all started at the beginning a lot of these annuities are just um the knock and the creation a lot of them have to do with the the commission part and it's almost like uh the inner workings of the the finances on the back end is what uh people have conceptions on or maybe how the U they're sold to uh in clients and if we can just got to get rid of that that's hopefully can just get to the pure uh situation of is it what they need let's find uh what they what that client needs yeah and and to that point you know the benefits of annuities as we were talking about earlier clients like and and many of them cannot be delivered through Investments you know in they're they're a different breed like lifetime income cannot be delivered through Investments you I mean it's just it's impossible you need risk pooling that the insurance carrier can do in order to do that downside protection is really hard to deliver through you know through Investments alone you know that's you know one of the most popular you know newer products in the annuity world is what's called a buffer annuity meaning you get a buffer of downside protection uh and you know with upside to your investment so for example what that means is you can open up this annuity account you're getting tax deferral and you invest in an index like the S&P P 500 and you get a capped return meaning you're not going to get the full Return of the index right now it' be limited to you know 15 or 18% in a year but you're going to get a 10% downside so if the index is down 8% you lose nothing you know if it's up 10% you get the whole return if it's up 20% you get you know only whatever your cap is uh but if it goes down 12% you only lose 2% those kind of products are really you know really attractive to more conservative investors people who are looking for downside protection worried about volatility in the market and it's you know quite a simple product actually um to convey to a consumer and that's why they've been you know particularly you know uh popular these days and you know th those kind of solutions guaranteed by an insurance carrier you just really can't replicate on you know an investment side mm yep and I think right there is just showing where a lot of times uh people ask me you know what's the best thing to do well the answer is usually a lot of things right it's not not one answer it's it's how to things go together and put them uh together for sure and of course the the nity side of it is usually associated with uh retirement so that's maybe where you're starting to to think of um maybe adding that into the mix if it should be in the mix although just quick speaking about retirement how do you envision spending your retirement oh wow um relaxing I've spent I've spent most of my life working you know really hard building you know building startup companies from you know the the the bank to the insurance carrier to DPL you know trying to you know change the industry which has you know been hard work but you know very rewarding I mean when we built the internet Bank every other bank had to do that right and when now we're trying to drive the insurance industry in the same way to provide better products for the client so when I retire I Envision spending a lot of time going to baseball games playing golf sitting on the beach but my my my dream has always been to be a shrimp booat Captain the when I was when I was young we'd go down to the beach in the Outer Banks North Carolina and we had a family friend who was a shrimp boat captain um Captain gallop and we'd go out and troll the sound at Sunset and catch a net full of stuff out of the sound and and it was just very peaceful and relaxing and so long as I don't need to make a living at it and I don't have to go out every day if I want it I always thought hey that sounds like kind of a cool thing to do yeah that's great well I'm glad you're you're thinking about it uh and maybe there'll be an annuity evolved to make sure that you got the uh the income to be able to do that we'll see absolutely awesome well I've got one more question for you David before that tell us what's the best way to reach out to you so the company's DPL Financial Partners so it's dp.com uh that's you know our website you can go and you know check out our tools you know access our 800 number talk to one of our Consultants you know who can you know help with you know our products like I said we offer a whole range of annuities and insurance you know life insurance Etc um long-term care other products you know in the insurance world the annuities are going to be the best in the industry because we've eliminated so you know so much of the cost so if if you own an annuity we can do an instant annuity review if you want to know if you have a good product or a poor product uh you know we've got the ability for you to do that yourself online we've got a tool that will enable you to generate a comparison where one of our Consultants can help you um that's that's a great thing if you own an annuity and uh otherwise or if you're interested in retirement income or the the reso we talked about yeah well that's great and of course if uh you want to get some more ideas on how to avoid big retirement mistakes go ahead right now click that subscribe button we'll get you more great uh podcast interviews like we've had going on here with uh David final question for you David tell us something about yourself that few people know about and remember this podcast is ready to clean something few people know about um let's see I met Mother Teresa so oh my goodness yes so that was a good one she came to my high school there were two entrances to the high school and I got posted at one end and somebody else was posted at the other to escort her to the auditorium where she was going to be speaking and she happened to show up at my end and uh I got to walk her from at the entrance way down to the auditorium that's that's so great yeah I believe it yeah did you get much chance to talk to her other than say hi or yeah very I mean very little I was I was super nervous so about Star Struck in high school I bet too that that's right so yeah talk you know a little bit but uh mostly logistical um we're just going this way it's not far we're going to get you up here um that kind of thing but uh that was great and I'll give you one other quick one the my first job at a college was working with Russian defectors and getting them resettled into the US oh my goodness amazing yeah so quite a few stories uh probably more stories from there that you probably can't share I assume that's that's right yeah that's great well thanks for coming on the show here David talking to us about uh just annuities in general and kind of the the ups and downs pros and cons why uh you might have an opinion on annuities that um hopefully maybe is change based on uh some of the things that that Dave is trying to to change in the insurance industry in general excellent well thanks for having me Jeremy I've enjoyed the conversation absolutely and thank you for listening to the retirement reveal podcast we believe if you know more about your money you will feel better about your money and you will make better money decisions hi I'm Jeremy Kyle owner of Kyle Financial Partners and if you're interested in seeing how we help our clients get more income pay less in taxes and avoid big retirement mistakes make sure to go to kyle.com that's ke lf.com