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well after hundreds of years ink signatures on paper are set to go the way of the wax seal in favor of digital from next year statutory declarations will be executed through the mygov app electronic signatures and Via video link witnessing Australians will still be able to sign with income paper though if they do choose joining me now live is Professor of Law and regulation at the Australian National University Veronica Taylor Veronica thank you so much for joining us and your view is this simply just a sign of the times so it's a really important reform it's bringing us into a digital economy it's a reform that's going to make it easier for most people to create and use a statutory declaration which is a really common uh form that's used for government processes for filling out mortgage paperwork for applying for benefits so being able to do it digitally as well as through paper is going to make life easier for a lot of people oh look it certainly is that I'm almost surprised that it hasn't happened sooner what are the risks though associated with a digital signature uh not just a signature but also a lack of actual witnesses to documents so a lot of people will be familiar with the process of creating a statutory Declaration on paper and then taking it to a witness who might be someone in the public service or the local chemist or a JP and having them witness and sign below the signature that we we put on the stat deck form that witnessing is very comforting because there's another person involved but actually it doesn't do very much because Witnesses in most jurisdictions don't have an easy way of checking the identity of the person who's signing or indeed knowing whether the squiggle that we're making is in fact our signature but under the new digital pathway that's being proposed our identity will already have been checked at the early stages of setting up our digital ID so when we sign digitally using our digital ID it's because our both our identity and our signature have already been verified so in fact it's a much more secure pathway so then does there need to be additional regulation or are you confident then that enough Security checks will be in place it's going to be a secure system and of course for those people who still need paper because they don't have easy digital access or because they need additional help or support paper will still be available in the the paper form will be witnessed but I think it's important to note that we use statutory declarations every day and most people are creating them effectively and there's very little instance of fraud if you're committed to making a fraudulent statement you'll do that no matter what pathway or what mode you use to create the stat deck and of course you know making a fraudulent statement has its own penalties attached well that's right that's that's a very good point um you mentioned just then that Australians will still be able to sign with ink on paper if that's what they choose to do when do you think we will eventually see a full phase out of the income paper or is it still relevant in our society so I think it's going to be a generational change most people who are younger than you and me won't regard this as a significant uh Step at all because most of their life is spent through interaction with screens already so I think for older people or for vulnerable people having the additional security of paper and the option of getting face-to-face help with that is important but for younger people a well-designed digital form and a digital process will seem very natural and that will become the norm quite quickly and have you got any advice then for the older generation to be able to prepare for these changes next year so I think that um part of the implementation of the reform will involve thinking about the design of the form including directions to make sure that people understand what they're doing and know where to go to get additional help JPS are an enormous community resource you know they have been one of the um you know primary professional groups authorized to witness statutory declarations but they also provide a kind of at elbow navigational help and so for vulnerable people at JP or a solicitor or someone who's very familiar with creating stat decks can still be very helpful I just find it fascinating you know we've gone from the wax seal of course to Ink signatures and now digital how interesting is it that it has evolved so much over time it's evolved very slowly um the first proposal to actually abolish Witnesses uh in Australia emerged about 40 years ago so by by that measure we've moved very slowly on this reform but in part it's because you know the legal system is conservative in a good way we like to be really sure that the changes will be secure and legitimate and well understood which is absolutely fair enough well huge changes to come next year Veronica Taylor great to speak with you thank you for joining us this afternoon thanks Danica