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How to eSign a document: online signature legality for Security in Australia

[Music] spend your afternoon with on 72 let's walk the talk 13 minutes to 2:00 let's have a conversation around electronic signatures and how secure they are we're joined by Sharon nolles who is a certified cyber crime investigator and you can get your questions through Sharon on 08372 and the WhatsApp line 0727 172 Sharon thank you so so much for joining us on 702 afternoons good afternoon Lebo and good afternoon to your listeners Sharon what is an electronic signature cuz I just imagined that little image embedded into my email that says 702 presenter with my email address well you all right to a certain extent um an electronic signature is a digital representation of a person handwriting signature usually but it could be a symbol a sound or a process and what it's used to do is indicate the signer's intent to agree or to authenticate a document a record so it's basically the electronic equivalent of a traditional handwritten signature on a physical document and I think obviously looking back at um Co and how we had to forgo physical meetings for agreements and contracts it must have increased over the last few years oh definitely I think co co launched us into um this digital Arena faster than what we were ready for here in South Africa and business had to make a lot of adjustment in the way that they did things and I think electronic well electronic signatures and the way that we signed our documents um all reverted to electronic signature so maybe just help clarify the difference between electronic signatures versus digital signature so and um you know one of the most common ways that I've experienced having to sign documents is either Adobe or there will be some online Link that allows you to add or to draw into some little square somewhere um and to add your initials but um many of them are just done via PDF yeah so so there are um tools that you can make use of and you'll find that the big insurance companies and um some of the banks make use of those so there are different types of electronic signatures and you get the simple electronic signature was which is a basic representation of a person's signature and it could be scanned or typed um name at the end of the email they're easy to create but have limited legal weight and obviously that's when the forgery and cyber crime comes in you have a biometric signature um and a biometric signature sort of captures unique biometric data such as your fingerprint or voice pattern and it's used to create a more secure and verifiable signature and they provide a very strong level of authent authentication your digital signature use what we call cryptographic technology and this creates a unique digital fingerprint which is also known as a hash of the signed document and this is usually where the let's use the insurance companies when they send a link to you and they say click on the link and you'll be taken to a sort of a platform where you sign your documents and digital signatures are often backed by The Trusted third party as you mentioned Adobe and are widely accepted for a lot of legal purpose you then get your qualified electronic signature um and this is a very specific type of digital signature that meets very strict regulatory requirements and it's defined by specific type of law um and these are also used by accredited trust service providers and they provide sort of the highest level of legal validity and enforceability and if you can remember you know when we all in the beginning of Co we we all had to everybody said to us we now need to have a a digital signature and you know how you sort of taking photos of your signature to try and get it out and figure out how to get it online you you can use Adobe and other a program that now assist you in making sure that your your signature is saved online and it is a credible representation of your signature so how Okay I I think how you've explained it makes sense I'm just wondering about the part of the legal weight that you mentioned um in the earlier explanation so if let's say you had to challenge a signature that didn't use biometric Tri um that you know was just something a PDF um how do you go or rather how is it that it doesn't carry legal weight because would somebody have to go and prove that actually you went and copied this and cut it out in Photoshop and pasted it and made it look like my signature so the first thing I'm going to say legal disclaimer is I'm not a lawyer but the way that we interpret it is that an electronic signature can be used in most transaction unless the law prohibits that use of that electronic signature and there are very specific areas where you cannot use electronic um signature and that's um lease agreements of removable property which are not longer than 20 years mandates to sell or rent removable property and then your will um but the problem with electronic signatures that we do ourselves at home and as you say take it into Photoshop and you know twist it and turn it and then save it into your PDF is that they can be easily forged so the the law does recognize an electronic signature and that is the um electronic communications and transactions act uh number 25 of 2002 and uh um legal requirements for electronic signatures on documents are accepted and if you had to you have to be very specific if you want to go up against um you know just saying that a a signatry is not valid because it's electronic signature there are specific rules and the law does sort of put it out um how you can go or how is to be utilized and what sort of areas you can't and must use Advanced electronic signatures so what what can people do to protect themselves because obviously many of us are not walking around with the wealth of knowledge that you are sitting with especially in terms of what qualifies as a valid agreement um in terms of certain agreements that you can't be entering into digitally but maybe you don't know so what what can listeners do to be mind and just to exercise um certain precautions to protect themselves so I think it's going back to basics um if you receive a document that has been signed um and that document has got something to do with an asset in any way pick up the phone and check I know it is an extra step but it in the long run it's better to be safe you get a lot of um documents where it's just information sharing excuse me and there is a signature but anything that has to do with assets um your will moving of money anything like that and when you have a look at that document that comes in and it might say okay it's this insurance house or it's this Bank always double check I think I think with the cyber crime that is increasing these days there are some areas where we just need to make sure even for ourselves you pick up the the phone and you say um you know to your broker this I've received this document it's been signed by uh John do and it says that they're removing These funds would that be the right would that be correct um and the other thing is when you're sending a doc a document with a signature that you've done you always need to ensure that the way that you've done it um and you've embedded it into your mail is done through a reputable third party so there are a lot of free apps and free programs on the internet that people download and they do their signature and it's stores it for them don't use free you know free is good for some things but things that have to deal with your assets don't use free all right there's a WhatsApp message which says my understanding is there is a difference between scanning my signature and using it in comparison to an example like or adobe sign surely the scanned one is problematic yes because it can be forged so it's always wise especially for a business a any any company that's using electronic signatures should use a third party vendor a well-known thirdparty vendor for you and I that are in the street and we sending a mail up and down there is a way to create a signature especially um the program that come with your with your PC or your Mac and that but a scan and I never accept a scanned signature it doesn't matter who it's from you know I I always phone and check and it's easily if you scan it it's it's an image or a bit map and it can be replicated so there is another WhatsApp message that says we are a trusted services provider of advanced electronic signatures in South Africa accredited by the South African accreditation Authority so I'm assuming then Sharon if people aren't sure they can check up with the South African accreditation Authority correct any final any um final thoughts just for our listeners you know particularly when it comes to cyber crime and the signatures that we possibly take for granted and um are not fully fully aware of just to remember anything that deals with an asset double check doesn't matter who you got the mail from or where the letter came from double check Sharon Nolls thank you so so much for your time just speaking to us there around electronic and digital signatures and as she's reiterated your will anything to do with assets lease agreements I would even go as far and I'll I'll I'll chat to Wendy Nola when she comes um uh to join us and ask her about those contracts that we do over the phone and the digital signatures if we need to take that into consideration especially when it comes to our credit score but thank you so much to Sharon NS on [Laughter] that