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my name is Minnie thunder Swami well thank you for products cool I like events where fans get to meet each other compare notes and kind of figure out what everyone's doing in their area I will be talking about you know what it takes to succeed as a payment span you know and when I was thinking about preparing for this talk I was like oh you know typically there tell you how do you keep like the audience's interest keep on going from the start there's people usually ask but depression that gets saturated and you know if I ask this grub oh how many of you do payments instead of like you know how many of you buy things it's good off like hand raises you most probably just stare at me and then think I live under a rock right and even if I change the question I said oh how many of you buy things on the internet buy products and services I would still kind of get the same reaction and that's basically because payment is to be Curtis we do this day in and up it's also an area we just expect it to work no matter if I go to Walgreens and I you know I like using Apple earpods at Walgreens if I use that or fine buying something online from a ecommerce fortune the expectation is the experience should be reliable it's secure and it's frictionless so that's a pain in p.m. those are into some of the three things those are specifically the three things that you know you you focus on and you make sure that the experience is so simple that people even know you know and realize the complexity behind it so we have around 30 to 45 minutes here and I want to focus on talk about why penance is exciting what some of the inherent challenges Ameena payments PM is and also uh the last thing that I think most of you might be interested is what you know what do you need to have to be successful as a payment PM so let's actually cut to the chase right let's get to the the three skills oh can I touch upon these during the different parts of today stop but this is what I see as a top three skills I don't think there is any specific domain knowledge and I think this applies a lot to panning in general but I'll call us why some of these things stand out specifically for payments p.m. the first ones being able to be really detailed oriented but also at the same time stepping back and understanding an entire payment slow and experience and knowing and tying that with the detailed you know feature that you're building the second is having empathy I will talk about empathy about not just user entity but using the empathy super skills that you have to applying it to your partners that you work with and the third is learning again I will talk about how does learning apply in terms of payments a little bit about myself I've been doing product management from around ten years a large part of that I spent in Wells Fargo which is one of the largest banks in the country I'm an engineer by background I started my job my first job out of school was being an engineer for a telecom startup in India I then tech consulting for a very short short period of time and I joined about Fargo right after I graduated from I finished my post Fred and joined the join the organization and even though I was at that at a very large financial institution for you know most of seven eight years every two years I did something different and I didn't realize it at that time but stepping back now that I think about it Wells Fargo's is a financial which both tests consumer banking and also had commercial or merchant you know business banking part and I spend time on each side of those businesses and it helped me gain perspective on what different product and services are offering to customers and also how it all comes together right now I am a product manager at payments team in Braintree if you don't know what Braintree does green tree is a paypal service and we look to provide seamless payments experience for merchants and I'm pretty sure even though this is like a small crowd I'm pretty sure all of you have used the payment rails that my team would have built because we support merchants like uber and if you have taken a you know a ride with uber if you've booked an Airbnb if your blog tickets with Fandango Ticketmaster or any of the thousands of merchants that we support your transactions would have gone through the payment reels that my team has built and supports and supporting you know such an impactful payment experience and supporting payments at scale is what keeps things interesting for me and what keeps me going so one of the best things that I think a paean should have is it's thinking about why something needs to be done and as all of you are here I wonder cannot you know instead of just saying this is this is what a pink pig you know payments p.m. needs to do I want to talk about why you should care about being a payments p.m. and wideness matters so this is uh I don't know if you can see clearly not not as clearly I expected but I did a casual search for p.m. jobs and payments over the weekend and I had I you know depending on where you search and how good the search results were I couldn't we see you know hundreds of jobs this is all across the US and you know and there are some global you know positions there as well and these are across companies very different kind of companies these are with traditional financial institutions like one of my xx employers and these are with fintechs companies are innovating and payments and there are also PM roles in companies that are you know across different verticals that are providing commerce experiences and if you think about it companies that are providing conference experiences actually want to focus on payments so that they can optimize the payment experience and that's important because payment experience what they've see is critical and integral to their entire customer experience and what products and services they they deliver so I would say like think about it that way in a way that if you are a company who's providing a conference experience you have a user or a prospect and until they buy your products or service they're not your customer right technically there's still a user a prospect that you're going after and payment becomes that turning point that sticky interaction that converts your user or prospect to a customer and thinking about it that way I mean it's it's that that's a power of like making that experience really frictionless and I would say that being a pan at each one of these companies looks very different right um being a p.m. in payments in a company which is small or a company which is large so depending on the size of the company is going to look very different depending on the culture of the company is going to look different and also depending on what the goal of the of the front of the product or payments organization and the company is going to be different but there are some common characteristics and I want to talk about next about you know okay so this is there there's a demand for payment pans what is payments pm's really do I try to connect group it across a few different categories so if you think about from a perspective of a company our product areas where you're building consumer financial tool tools a payment peon in a company like this we focus on building the right tools for the customer so this would be example or if you're building a if you're building tools for lending if you're building tools where you want consumers to buy your your product instant sense becomes could be your mortgage tool your could be your your you know small business loans and your revolution ax you know your revolutionising then making the whole experience easy how would you you know compare the products how would you treat a consumer who's applying for that product how quickly could you decision them and provide their position to the extent to the consumer so that's what you know a pan and in an organization like that with you with on the other side you have companies that provide merchants acquiring and processing services if you're a-peein p.m. in one of those companies you're looking at efficiently you're looking at simplifying the payment experience for your merchants so that they can focus on what their core business is and in that case you're looking at processing just how do you process payments money movement how are you going to move money fraud solutions are there intelligent way of recognizing fraud as it's happening and minimizing losses for the companies and there there are many more product areas in there as well and bridging those is something you know it's what a commerce or an e-commerce company would do a payment p.m. in an e-commerce company would be looking to convert their focus is going to be on efficiently converting their user or their product their prospect to a good to a customer and they would be focused on optimizing the checkout experience making sure that when a user is presenting their payment method information you know do they have the relevant relevant payment method information at this point so a pan in this kind of an orientation me would actually have their their views their eyes on both sides of the spectrum there also have a good understanding or some somewhat of a decent understanding of what process what their processors are doing for them and they also have a good understanding of not just the market but what kind of financial tools are financial instruments their youth their consumers are going to be using so I before we can I jump a little bit further I want to talk about how I'm David beat or right this is product schools let's let's let's do a payment school kind of it think for like a few minutes there are four different high level categories of what payments looks like the first 50 to be consumer to business and this is where this is something that you all know this is where you're paying and providing and combining a service from a business buying a product from a business thence there is agency the worse of it which is where a business is painted and an individual your this is equal into your employer paying your salary or wages and this is also where in gig economy companies are paying out the gig workers and then we have p2p which has grown in popularity over the last few years and pickle and many more are pretty yeah you know a popular very relevant in this market and then me to be this is where businesses are paying businesses or service that they offer right you know your that's a business you're here you're paying your members you're paying your kid or is your pain that you know that that's the furniture is in this room and let's let's see let's talk about C to be a little bit more some of the typical use cases in this as we'll start with in store we're going to a store buying something in commerce I will give an example over straightforward I'll use this example trying to draw the top here I got a hat from off my child that's pretty straightforward ecommerce um carbon file is is it's where you're storing your payment methods with one of your providers and when you're using their services you're not entering that payment method information every time and that also removes that further removes that friction that might happen every time you go you go and want to pay and lastly recurring or subscription-based payments this is where you know a typical Netflix it's storing your payment method information and every like without you even interacting with them they're going to Bill you for whatever the duration is that's been committed between you und and the merchants I touch her bond b2c b2b I would like to call out it's me Toby's is a pretty big market as well there's there are 127 trillion-dollar payments since that happens over beat a mediator but even today b2b a lot of those payments are still done with paper checks and b2b involves you know accounts payable organization of one of one company talking to a come perceivable invoice is being generated invoices be mailed being sent and then you know either someone writes a check or in the recent years people have started using credit cards and bank payments or ACH payments in the US so there's a lot of potential in b2b for for digital payments specific to the most common form C to be and let's talk through what like a typical payment flow looks like and I'll try to peel some layers of this complex you know interaction that happens if you look at a very critical interaction you know I'm looking to buy a hat I do have a window that I know what kind of hat that I want I've compared competitors I know who has a cheapest one who has the best colors go to their checkout page provide the payment details the order is placed and then I get the product right so on the left side you have the consumer and the right side you have the merchant so the consumer makes the payment at some point the merchant gets their payment as well and as a consumer is an cardholder the company that I give my card from the bank that I get my card from let's let's say I've used my Visa card they're going to send me a statement at the end of the billing cycle and I'm going to pay off that purchase at that so this looks like a flow that everyone understands right so let's take the part between what happens when you provide your payment details and when you get that auto confirmation there's a complex set of interactions it starts with the merchant sends our payment information to a payment processor or a payment gateway they could be one are the same or they could be different depending on depending on who the feds are the payment processors cakes that no staff it's a Visa card and sends it to the right card screen or the card rent so that transaction gets sent over to Visa Visa now identifies that hey it's a the card was issued by and they identify this by use by something called event information which is the first six digits of your part it's about information and they forward to the between them the issuing bank so now now it's going to look up mini they know that the transaction for me and then we're going just see if my credit is the transaction would still fit under my credit limit if my credit limit was hundred dollars of purchase $40 and still good to go for the ten dollar transaction if it was a bank account they'll see it but if I still have money in my bank account to approve that so they say it looks all good I approve this transaction it goes back to the scheme it goes back to the payment processor and in the end the the it makes back into the margin and this and they say it looks all good I know I'll get money for this transaction I'm going to approve this otter auto confirm but that's one that's that the customer or the cardholder perspective if you look at it from a merchant perspective they've said on the product now they need to receive the cash for the product so how does that happen um similar to how there is a issuing bank that works with a consumer or a car broker in this case there's also a bank which were works with businesses or merchants and that's called a and a fine thing and they provide services to the merchants Treasury services to the wrenching so in this example breaking down the merchant side of things a few things has had all these transactions that they have received for all of their card holders once a day they'll go through it and they will collect their transactions for what's called a settlement they'll bash this elements by each card brand so they'll they'll create a separate batch for visa they'll create a separate them for MasterCard and my transaction would be included and sent to visa in an in a batch so these are now talks to the cárdenas visa the visa of talks to the payment processor and provides them that information the payment process error then been tossed skipped too much too soon the payment processor then talks to the agreement and the agreement at this point no switch merchant is associated with that came in they they backed out or they separate out and know that this particular path lender made ten transactions which each equal for cichlids simplicity sake let's say each equals $10 and this is how much they need to be paid out at a given name there's lot more complexity to this at every point our fees associated card issuing banks charge something called interchange fee which is which really depends on the type of car to have is it a credit card if it's a debit card is it a rewards card over with some examples for acquiring banks Wells Fargo's in a corn bag Chase is an acquiring bank so they also serve as issuing banks as well and there are there many more banks out there too I named a couple and then lost my train of thought so I think I was talking about how was I an interchange fees thank you so there are different kinds of fees and where those fees are deducted and how those fees fees apply to the merchant how are those fees communicated at different points in this in this infraction if it's one layer of complexity and then there's different layers of complexity if you are in a market where GST has to be applied to the products and services that sold how do you calculate tax how do you report on tax those are a couple things that you know I'd like to call out but there's a lot of other complexities that goes on between these interactions as well so um just talking through some of these flows and kind of going back to what the payments can in each type of these organization does my hope is that you get a sense of where how all of this comes together if we if we think about you know tying this together with the with the skills that I believe a payment scheme needs being equal oriented this really matters because as a p.m. in payments you really need to understand not just what you're building but all the different edge cases that happen and education is really matter here because payments happen at scale either in consumer you know c2b model where you have large volume of payments but there's small smaller value right there's large large number of transaction large number of payments but there would be you know typical average ticket price could be less than hundred bills on the other hand would have b2g where you have a comparatively small number of payment transactions but the value of each one of those is really high so even in both cases you're talking about dealing with millions of transactions and millions of dollars so even if you have an edge case where it's 1% the only impact 1% of your overall overall volume it really matters because the 1% of like you know imagine like a million transactions is pretty high so being able to understand and ask a lot of questions irritably and think through you know how does it work why does it need to do something what would have what our competitors doing what kind of experience could we could we offer it in a certain aspect our key here from an assumptions perspective FinTech and payment systems notorious for using lot of acronyms and one of the things that I found out is just being that person right I've been in meetings and being like oh they said something about CFPB I know what CFPB is like oh how do I ask them what what that is and like there's two other people in the meeting rooms like I don't know what the separate about this as well and just being like hey can like someone please call out what this is um it's it's critical in payments because there's you know what I've seen is that no matter how how many years you have been in payments they're just something that that's a you know you could be you could be an expert in payments but there's something that you don't know and someone else knows because it's their area of expertise so being able to validate assumptions and constantly questioning and constantly asking question to understand details would be important question so what's a flow from playing what the Fed is doing to what your actions are SPM and sorry could you repeat that what's flow from so I'm finding out what competitions they do your actions as um you know response about what level do stop and others effects repeatedly yeah I I think it depends on the context right if it's if I think about if I take my example on Center set context there so if someone who's dealing with merchant experiences understanding what other players are doing in the market enables me to understand so when when a business is going to come to me and say hey I need this features understanding what someone else is doing it's just what I need to do to keep up in the market right and it could also be like oh they're doing it this way but we have a better way of doing it yeah so at one level is the great response made between you and you know sleep marketing oh yeah managers see roommates so if I could repeat the question what what level of response yes I was gonna respond but it's one level it was decided what the response it's appropriate to what the competition's doing okay so how much that is yours to make the response at how much there's so else it's dedicated how to decide like if I understand your question how do i how much do I respond or do I decide to respond to something that our competitor is doing versus what someone in marketing might do yeah someone decides the appropriate response right they could be year that could be someone else in the company so how much is delegated to you and how much yeah stuff that some helps make the decision about again you stiffen them the kind of company that you work at different companies which do this very differently or you know where I worked right now a ppm pace up plays a large role in understanding that and plays a large role because what's happening in the market really drives what you need to do for your product and drive the strategy forward so we're I in my current role a lot of that happens with PM's omega-3 selling a lot of tactical /t the social medias all right it may ask you questions so if you go just once like this will said you have wooden pipe right here so supporter is different different aesthetic on fetch it but only second endlessly go beyond user and I think you know in my view you start with good experiments is that understanding of customer and then you own in the security detail but the agree visit this is just look not only particular order I don't think this is sequential so you made a good point this is not sequential as to do this and do this next and the way that I talk about user empathy is going beyond the customer understanding what your customer wants and I can you know I'll touch upon that a little bit because you raise a question but from an empathy perspective I would say it's a given that's it as a peon you have an empathy M you understand what your customers needs are right so from a payments perspective what I would say is that going beyond that there's a lot of a lot of teams that you interact with that you're dependent on that on on driving your product to success and especially in payments legal and compliance genes you work very closely with them and payments being a regulated industry there's a lot of regulations and I typically find applying empathy when you're working with groups who have very different way of looking at payments right if you look at you know someone from compliance they're their primary goal is not to look at is it going to be easy their primary goal is to understand was local or governmental regulations are and if the product is meeting that means so I would actually think that from a payments person p.m. perspective you take that entity part and you to other parts of what you do as opinion as well the Centurion Pesce well in part yeah in fulfill the gentleman's question so he was asking how much you know decision power you have annual assets at the Dickinson circa the company suppose suppose a European differs from opinion of somebody who is hired decision power so the do you kind of you know maintain your opinion do you insist on your viewpoint we make it kind of you know you can known to everybody and just way too you know we'll see who actually in the end this correct or something like that do it to you kind of you know you know do you insist on honor European what what if in the end you're correct and somebody else made wrong decisions what they do I think it's still and I would still say it still depends on the company and the kind of things that you work with but it's you know the way that I see it's very it's collaborative right at different level people know different things right when when as a p.m. you're working with like your product very closely you know certain details that someone may be higher up doesn't know right so there could be something that I know but there could be something that they know that they probably know the organization strategies where they are different parts of the organization are going much better than I know right so it's more of a conversation in my respect on it's not about who's right or who is strong it's more about a conversation and trying to figure out what information do I have and what what they don't have are the the other way to think about why do we come to this such position and I'll say this you know SSPs we do make bad decisions right being p.m. doesn't mean that we make the right decisions all the time pants make that like it's not just in payments pants make decisions a lot of them are good some of them are not good so so you you can sort of collaborative approach yeah yeah so talking more about you know being detailed being detailed and then marrying that and stepping back like if you take that that that interaction transaction processing interactions that are sure mean detailed and understanding your your specific area is important but understanding that overall payment flow is important because without having that perspective the the product that you build for your for your customer this is not going to be it's not going to meet its need so being able to step back being able to talk to other teams other SMEs and understand that that specific interaction not just one hop away from your putter team but that entire view is going to be critical to make sure that you're building products that makes it I wanted to go back and touch on the agenda again so we talked about why it makes sense to talk to you know white-white PMA and product it's important we looked at some models and some payment journey and the next thing that I would like to touch upon is that you know why is payments kind of a unique snowflake and what what things in payments matter and you know to be very candid and somewhat like some of the other product areas all of these three things being safe compliant being reliable and having frictionless payments these are like non-glamorous things right it's not about like oh my god that the best that the next best best thing but these three things are pretty core to what payments needs to be the most obvious thing is containment so we're dealing with people's money right and one of the most important aspect of that is to make sure that as a p.m. you're building products that are secured but also give that sense of security and safety here your consumers q users and I would say that s payment spans we shouldn't just focus on what that specific experiences think about the experience that someone has made before the purchase before the payments and think about an experience that way that they could do after the payment or purchase experience so you know for example let's assume I you know had fat fingers and mistakenly brought shoot two hats later go to the vendor I asked for a refund so if you were at payment p.m. in the commerce area you would think about Oh someone can ask for a refund can they ask for a full refund would they want like a partial refund if you're someone in the merchant experience area and you get in you do get like a refund you know a refund request if you've gotten a partial refund you know I spent $20 and I'm asking for a refund of $10 what happens to the remaining $10 thinking about it not just from you know oh I can I can give them the $10 but think about it from a perspective off when does a $10 refund coming to my bank account right if I used a debit card at $10 matters a lot you know it might not seem but for different people it might matter a lot even if it's a credit card when does that appear back in my statement did I really you know did that come back instantaneously would that come back two to three days later and a lot of that depends on how you handle that debt recent experience and even though it's not tied to the whole you know it's just a secure payment concept it ties to the fact that from a user's perspective you are dealing with their money and it's important for them to feel confident comfortable that when I interact with this product or service uh you know I feel safe I feel you know I trust them and the second part of this is going to be a compliant payments have to comply with I said this before there are local regulations they're national regulations and there's like global regulation these are just some of the ones that I put you depending on which payment product area you are you can be dealing with one or more of these so you know know your customer it's basically when you know you can be a bank or a part of you know financial service provider how do you know that if I apply for a credit card how does event know that it's me and not someone posting us me or that I'm involved in a legitimate business or that I'm not a you know I'm not doing money laundering I'm not using you know I'm not doing some shady business it the financial institutions have an obligation to the government to make sure that they know who they're onboarding there's a lot of other compliance regulations and you know one of the things I hope there's no compliance early are legal people in the audience dealing with legal in compliance is one of the toughest things that's a payments PM their goals of what they need payments a premium product to do is very different from what you SPM would think that an end user a consumer would need to do your focus is going to be building on you know building on the next big thing building on really simple interactions their focus is going to be to make sure that the the customers interest in the bigger scheme of things are taken into account or taken into care and also that you know you can prove to the government you can prove to different regulatory bodies that you're doing the right thing as a financial institution this is where I think that empathy comes comes in play this is a there was one time where I was involved in a project it seemed pretty straightforward there the product that I was involved in had to do with credit cards for a bank and we the initiator was simple take you know you've all seen terms and conditions at constant credit cards right and the terms and condition are posted on the issuing banks website that was available in a PDF format the shooter was take that and make that in to put that in a responsive pitched HTML so that it renders better in different form factors and because it involved putting the terms and conditions and in a different way slightly a different way we have to talk to legal and compliance there was like weeks of conversations that were going on how would this terms and condition look when they were printed in a PDF format when they were printed would it look exactly the same when it would be printed if it was an HTML format and you know even though there was like conversations no it depends on what kind of printer someone has it depends on what kind of paper size someone has it was like the same kind of conversation over and over again in the end it was you know in this case nothing helped right you escalate to your leadership escalate to their leadership what happens everyone comes together and be like you solve it you you need to need to figure out how to deliver a product that works and help you deliver a product that's right you know that's compliance and in the end it was you know sitting down with the partners talking through what they're looking for understanding and digging through some of the regulations and you know it's painful to reach with some of the regulations biddings from some of their regulations understanding where their concerns were and being able to work towards this is what ultimately solved their and and I would say that going in with the mentality especially with with compliance and regulation is that hey it's not pretty but it's there for a reason is there could protect us as the consumers if you put on the consumer hat you would want your financial institution to do the right thing and to do everything that they need to do even if you're not aware of that so going in with that mentality and treating you know some of some of those regulations and the groups that enforce those regulations as your user as your customer if we're applying that empathy to them is critical too and I'm not saying that you shouldn't apply everything to building products I'm saying all of all of that is the baseline for being a p.m. and this comes back up with it if you're in payments so the so we've talked about so we've talked about you know being safe secure and compliant the second part is you know how do you how do you ensure that that's reliable payments like you're providing reliable payments I was able to grab a couple screenshots you don't want this to happen right this is someone complaining well this is both Twitter this is once you know the first person is complaining on Twitter that they made a payment in 15 minutes later they still haven't gotten any response consumers are fickle right they've made the decision to buy your product or service if something like that happens you know that you're going to take your business to someone who can provide the same service more efficiently the same applies to you know this with someone who's saying this they couldn't access miss Olivia for those two okay the first thing saying me earlier today when I can access Netflix because there was a payment error when my dad wouldn't give my credit card information so you know in and this is the kind of experiences that you want to avoid as a payments PM you do the things that you would think about you would care about is availability or up time you'd consider the latency how soon do like your consumers know your customer know if something to see it or not and also thinking about redundant options if I am you know if I put on a hat from a commerce or a merchant perspective do I have you know if one provider is done do I have an option to go to another provider and still follow it's still get the payment through and the last part is unless and when I see frictionless there's you know there's some part of being a payment p.m. where you do deal with front-end interaction if you do deal with you that the other interactions I would say like especially carve out customer experience separate from user experience there's also a lot of back-end want system payments so example if your of payments p.m. and you have AP is the way you think about the customer experience your customers are developers and you're thinking about how do you make your your you know the different calls in your API is that understandable and you know you taught you think about documentation you think about documentation not just from a perspective off is it easy you also think about documentation if you don't make your documentation easy you're going to get a lot of in one in bunk questions and yeah you know that's the amount of time that you could be or someone in the company could be spending doing something else I would say that being being payment payments make you think outside of the box box of water typical product manager would because there are a lot of piece nuances and the the part that I like to touch it's a learning part payments it's very exciting because there's a lot of few things that's going on there's a lot of companies new companies that are coming up and you know I I presume to leave the exciting part is also learning what some of the legacy systems do and knowing why some of these products existed and services existed that we need they did and how they were built like you know 20 30 years ago because some of these legacy systems and legacy products are still in place today and learning is important for all PM's but especially if you you know I would say if you it doesn't have to be done if you enjoy the learning process this is really an exciting place to be in are there any resources that for us too because it's updated in terms of the latest state-of-the-art things and pain medicine I there there are a couple resources that are might go to their debt payments calm it's actually pym NPS calm and then you know I I look at other things I look at TechCrunch if there's something in payments that catches my eye and then you know there's I think both of these you can turn on notifications they'll they'll keep bombarded you with everything on you know when you're browsing and stuff there's also some podcasts I doesn't you know I I don't remember them top of my head but if you you know if you search for them a third a little podcast that you can listen as well um last week the one thing I'd like to touch upon it's you know I depressions on okay this is like payment schemes does do I need to have a finance background to understand payments do I need to have a technical background or technical experience to to be you know something like an api product manager or do I need to be in payments before the last one's tricky I don't know if people have experienced this this is what happens with PM's to like they're like hey I wanted to be a PM well have you done camming before right like it's not that's that's what first company's ass and I've seen that being in payments as well if you know you want to be in payments there are some companies who want people who have payments experiences but again I say that's different from company to company and for all of these questions yeah I have this my favorite my Scotch if the answer's no I don't have a financial background earlier this year I I learned a lot about financial reconciliation and money movement and just use Google to understand some basic accounting principles I do have a technical background but I've seen a lot of other course so don't have a technical background and being successful and being able to ask those questions and just you know getting a lot of those wise how what what's out there is also a key to learning and I don't again I don't personally believe others may disagree that you don't need a payments experience to get started in payments or to even 68 yeah being a good p.m. and before we end I would say that I am hiring 14 Europeans so if you know someone if you are interested please send me your information or your resume you can find me on LinkedIn or you can also email me at Kamini at get Braintree calm thank you very much you've been a great audience if there are any questions as having tickets enough I think the question is so so are you getting typical to crowds and you know your experience in situa no no no no but say what about your soft skills so being good negotiator being empathetic being a good team player may be able to communicate you know across different teams how how much they actually tested during interview and how much weight it scares I think a lot of that is baked into the a lot of the interview processes and you know into interview processes has it having very different ways right you know some companies give you a case study some companies ask you about your experiences in the past and they will give you certain situations they'll say Oh have you yeah you know tell me about a time where you have to disagree with a co-worker right how did you deal about it so they'll ask you about those things and those things are important right being able to work and I don't think like those things are important for any PM being able to work especially as a PM you weren't with engineering teams work with marketing teams you worked with other product keys and your work virtually doing compliance teams worth it customer service accounts sales being able to collaborate and we work together and bring them all together and being able to communicate why you are doing something is going to be important so soft soft skills are in my opinion equally important and you know when you when you consider some of the hard skills you can say others yes what about your decision-making skills if you just you know agreeable you know are you capable of making your own informed decision despite may be disagreements yeah I think it again I think it's depends on the organization there are organizations where I've been like while I disagree with them and they're like I don't care about what you just do it this is what you're gonna do right and then there are nations where your opinion is heard you have a discussion about why you disagree why do you think something else matters and what they believe doesn't matter and you know like everyone likes to believe we're doing it together and when we're doing it together some whole someone has to make the decision sometimes it's you someone else back to the dealership are they coming back right or you need to make cut they work on the exact to be the documentation to interpret it how did you like that because that documentation lawyers in understands that already we can understand we're right but to let you know make them take something we can really get admitted in either you go into their life we didn't write the documentation and then all right you know that's one of the examples and in some in that case and this happened years ago so in that case I think I did read the regulation and asked them hey which which particular part of this is concerning to you what why is this concerning it to you if that was concerning to you this is what we're doing today how would you apply that and to the current situation that we're doing or tell me what you're like I understand that you're concerned about this what we've built and how if this is this is compliant or not what do you need to see - for me to say that we I have built this in a compliant when this meets a regulation or the help me understand what the regulation is in some cases their regulations have been in a foreign language and even though they say oh I'll send you the regulations it's like you know really long document it's in a foreign language and even with like Google Translate you're like it's it's unreadable so if there are various strategies you can you can spend some time reading it but you like the best thing is to like you know can I go go deeper with with those people as well and try to understand what they're really looking for especially in cities there's also one more which is like the gift card or say like a warranty card or people thought that their payments company is actually charging emergent hire either way and so so I'm I'm just curious to understand how this enables any book such that the merchant is willing to part with like a larger share in a no citations since I understand as you if you're talking about get parts yeah so I think I put if God's loyalty cards in credit cards or in the same title even say your usual right is going to be three dollars but if you have people pop out and that comes with a half dollars and that these accesses literally going from the quadrants pocket so there are different kinds of depending on what the merchants trying to do third search there could be different things that's happening there the merchant is either trying to attract a certain kind of business and being willing to pass like it's like a promotional thing right and they're willing to take on that that set hit for a short time and say oh I want these kind of cards I want to make it sticky so that these people come over and over again there could also be sometimes merchants who have large volumes would also have certain certain contracts with banks or with like Visa MasterCard and when that happens for those certain cases how much they actually pay for those transactions what would actually be a lower negotiated amount so depending on what's really going on there there there could be many different reasons of why there's you know different kind of fees or are being are being applied [Music] you know I would say three but you're already there I actually cheated your five best back I think there's a lot of companies there are companies that are trying to do you know there are companies are trying to do new business models right I know companies are dealing in b2b space a lot I don't have some real names to share but I think that the differentiator are interesting things are going to happen where we it's not something that's happening in the same model so if we think about it in the last few years we've seen so many companies that using such a subscription model right and so the the next thing is going to come from someone who is just not going to it was going to do something differently that's not what's been done with payments alright thank you you