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you are talking to so many people and you need to adjust yourself how you're talking to a doctor it's different from how you're talking to the r d person and how you're talking to regulatory person and what is what is the time to tell people no and no i'm not gonna do it and maybe find some other advice that suits better what you think so as a product manager you have to deal with all these sorts of people so when you wake up in the morning think about how you're talking to each one in their own language getting really like to see that product in action and like i said you know hopefully everyone loves their products but uh when you see a product like improving the quality of lives of people i think that the very very few people who would not be touched at an emotional level would not be uh you know have even tears in their eyes and say wow what i'm doing really really makes a difference it helps this family help these uh uh these patients with you know some really inconvenient chronic disease uh it's not just about roi and and efficiency etc they're like real lives and they're impacting it doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman when you're developing a product of course it helps but you need to understand how to research your users and give them something that they they do relate and you'll be surprised like uh if you try and design a product just thinking about a product or technology and you miss the monetization piece you're probably going to end up in with a great product and a terrible business plan and and not great outcomes healthcare products you're actually making a difference in the world so it's hard not to fall in love with our products hello liggers and thank you for joining us again for another ask me anything session this time we are going to talk about healthcare product management now here is the funny thing if we were to have this exact session just a few months ago even five months ago i should have explained to you why we are talking about it right because just five months ago our prioritizing as community as the word as a human nation was about other things than about health but this day with covet outside the the situation is a little different right there is no need to explain to you why technology need to help as much as possible for us all to achieve bigger more valuable milestones when we are talking about health care about medical right the whole space of medical and health policies products services and there is so much to do all over the world when we are talking about bringing the possibilities the tech and just good product innovation can bring to so many people out there and this is exactly what we're going to talk about today we're going to talk about healthcare product management and we're going together learn how to think and act when we are building products that can change the lives of so many people around the world for the better okay now to do that i'm not going to do this alone i invited here three talented and dedicated product managers product league mentors that are going to help me bringing this knowledge to you we already have beautiful interesting questions that you guys submitted but we're also asking you to use the chat and ask us all the questions that you have on your mind and on your heart when it comes to product management in the healthcare domain by the way my name is maria casis i'm the founder and general manager of product league and what we do is helping you to become the best product manager that you can be we provide you with a full month mentoring program for product managers by product managers with an e-learning system with events and the most important of all a mentor that is there for you and helping you to bring your potential to life so i'm looking forward to getting to know you better please make sure to comment in the chat new because if you are new i want to know you and i want to know that you are new and make sure to like this video and our page so you'll be notified about special events future events and just product parties like this one so as i told you before we are having three super special guests today with us zorholovitz and benny rubenstein and i want you all to know why these guys are so important and why the best thing that you can do right now for your product management career is to listen to them first please welcome to the stage ronnie bell moses product manager at medisafe and product league mentor ronnie is a product management professional experienced in the healthcare industry and compliances her passion is to manage road maps by focusing on a strong understanding of market and businessness together with the technical capabilities and ronnie has a bachelor in biology that is also very relevant to donors discussion today from the technion so happy to have you here with us today how are you thank you very much very excited so excited to learn from you and to get to know you better and we are getting ready to learn from benny rubinstein strategy and innovation consultant and product league mentor benny's philosophy is to help others succeed he's an accomplished handsome consultant with methodological problem solving skills and strategic consulting and corporate venture capital experience benny holds an mba in finance and strategic management from warthorne and a bsc in computer engineering from wait for it i'm going to i'm going to succeed in it ponificia universitat catholica doria denero how are you today i'm great how are you great and happy to have you here with us thank you very much for joining us last but not least please shout out a big hello to zohel holovitz limo vp product a giant tools and product league mentor sora has seven years of product management experience focused on products in the medical industry she's fluent in different medical devices are in these processes including regulation clinical studies and quality management systems zora holds an mba from tel aviv university and a bsc in mechanical engineering from the technical and we are super excited to have you here with us how are you fine i'm really happy to be here thank you yes happy to and what do you say guys are we ready to dive in ready let's do that so we are starting with the first question and the first question is assigned to all of you samantha wants to hear from all of you what is the one thing about healthcare product management that your friends and colleagues from other domains just don't get great one exactly let's start with you benny what is the one thing that if you're not from the domain you just you just don't get it so it's a great question and uh you know it without my respect to my other colleagues i've worked in lots of different verticals but my real passion is is around health um but i don't have any medical degree but my dad's a physician i grew up around physicians of my entire life um i think that's two things that uh that sound kind of obvious but they are actually most not really aware of it the first thing is uh i'll start with the obvious one and the last obvious one the most obvious one is uh no matter where industry you are i'm sure you're solving great problems and whatever you're doing is very important um but as we know uh you know uh lives matter probably more than everything else in the world and we are really dealing with at the end of the day we're dealing with human lives so yes you can you can cause damage if you do make bad decisions in other fields but uh you know health care is obviously uh a really sensitive one but the second one that i think is more interesting it didn't occur to me until i joined the health solutions group within microsoft research about 10 years ago was the fact that if you think about a product life cycle um you know you can argue that it feels like education they go through your entire life or most of your life right you're starting kindergarten and you hopefully study into your phd or whatever and you have your continuous learning so in a way education can touch most of your life some other fields might touch most of your life but in reality health is the only thing and if you really think about health in a broader way that that you care with you from the day you're born to the day you die um and and it's it's really like you have to think you know we can talk later about uh some of those uh features and platforms and so on but uh if you really think about it most of those um uh applications and systems that you build in health in one way or the other we will apply to every kind of gender ethnicity uh age uh and so on so it's really a pervasive uh and critical uh system um and and it will make this interesting and makes it also super complex yes and in some products in this domain we can actually say you can't live without it yep indeed literally exactly exactly exactly zoa what do you think is the the thing about you know healthcare product management that someone from another domain just can get i think the biggest thing that when people are shifting to managing or creating new products they don't understand the time dimension i think this is one of the biggest shocks because whatever you can do in a civilian let's say a product is just not working in the medical domain because you need time to circulate your product with all the regulatory in the clinical trial and all the stakeholders and to make sure all your customers are happy and before you launch the product and this just takes time of course and money and when people are shifting from other remains to health they just don't understand the amount of energy and time spent and money that is needed to create something that looks very very similar but as long as you have the stamp of health it's becoming totally different and also one thing that is very different i think mostly for people that develop system is that the health industry you really work ing to some standard that some other people with the same experience in the same domain uh created for you so you need to step to step in other people's uh development and criterias and people that come from other domains even if they develop product for their whole life they never heard of standards and this is something that i think many people that are in the health industry will agree with super interesting and ronnie i can't wait to hear what is the one thing that you know outsiders just don't get i think that regulation is a big thing and i'm sure that in other fields they know regulation and all of the hurdles that you have to pass but in healthcare i think one of the big differences that a lot of times some of these processes were created before digital was even a thing so a lot of things are very very vague and up to um how legal departments in different companies see things for example even drug safety information the fda has very vague guidelines about how it has to be presented and it was made at a time where radio and television commercials were you know this the top of technology and having to adapt to those things and deal with um legal departments in different companies that may have interpreted um the regulations differently is sometimes quite frustrating and mind-boggling so i agree and we are going to talk today about some of these frustrations and how to deal with them so i'm very happy that you already got us into the discussion super interesting and we are moving to the next question zoro this one is for you and it comes from izabela and she is asking how do you study your user i am working with male product managers building products for pregnant women and they just can't get the situation and the user story that we are building the product for so how do you do that okay so this is really interesting because i used to work for a pregnant on a pregnant to a woman's product it was a wearable and the interesting thing about it it was uh invented and developed by a male and man that had experience with his his wife's birth and he took this a problem they encountered and grew with it but he didn't do it alone and i think that the main thing that we need to think about like in our mind that you don't need to be you don't need to be as cheap in order to be a shepherd you don't have to be a part of a hurdler you need to understand the product manager role okay and it doesn't matter in which domain you are you need to spend time with your user you need to ask them questions you need to see what they they like and to eat and might what makes them happy okay uh like sheeps uh you need to understand their pain points and what's important to them and you you cannot skip this part and you need to walk this road and spend time on it and there's no there are no shortcuts you cannot even say what you want to this user for example in the us there are very strict uh restrictions and one you can say tell to the mother i can give an example of what i was working with uh we were gathering the the fetus heart rate and we couldn't tell the mom what exactly is the numbers so it doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman when you're developing a product of course it helps but you need to understand how to research your users and give them something that they they do relate to so it's interesting what i i like the optimistic point of view that you have because in some ways what you're saying is that actually the fact that sometimes you don't have you know we hope so the disease or in this case a good thing like pregnancy actually keeps you away from having some sort of um hypothesis that you already took as the potential user if we were to talk about other products so very very much appreciate this point of view thank you very much and benny finn has a question to you okay and he is asking can startups really win against corporations in the healthcare domain what are your tips for making product innovation win in the battle okay that that's a great uh fascinating question and let me just make a comment on the prior one if you don't mind that i'm the only mayor in the room um i i think that there is an interesting point which goes in general for product managers but in particular in the health space which is interesting to mention i did uh as i mentioned uh i was part uh for several years uh as a global product manager in the microsoft research team focusing only on solutions for health um it turned out i don't know if it was a quest to be honest one of my colleagues in the uk had diabetes and we worked with a lot of diabetic patients so i actually don't know if that helped or not uh but interesting enough most of my projects i did in the uk with the nhs uh were around elderly population um they were around patients of dementia um and again even though i come from from a family of physicians i'm an engineer and i didn't have any depth in any of those conditions so um so what i was gonna say obviously uh you know uh it's hard for a man to to to know what it feels to be pregnant but on the other hand uh it exercises your empathy as a product manager to really try and understand right my first role as a product manager was in in the developer tools division at microsoft i was a former developer so i felt at home well of course i use visual studio and i'm not the product manager for visual studio but it turns out that life is not always that way right so we sometimes are users of own products sometimes we are not the right audience but it just imposes another intellectual challenge on us which is big heroes uh you know surround yourself with people who have uh the knowledge um talk to to to people talk to physicians talk to patients talk to lots of kinds of people and um i don't think that's a barrier in a way i think it's actually uh a benefit it brings you kind of a more unbiased view of the world and and then ability to bring their new solutions um so that was this was my uh but regarding the startups uh you know i'm i was very passionate about it as you know i left microsoft after 15 years and long career in in corporations and i actually built uh an accelerator for startups with microsoft and qualcomm in latin america i was an investor in startups uh not only health but also in health um and a part of some board uh board advisory boards now for for health tech um so i i would actually be phrased if you allow me the the question um i don't think startups will win against corporations i i don't think that's the right angle um i i think that uh you know at least from my experience i can speak from from both angles uh as a former microsoft executive in the health space uh maybe microsoft is is a unique example but uh but but it's still a good one microsoft is a platform company right so microsoft will try to build generic platforms and and the motto is uh you thrive on the partner ecosystem and as you bring more and more and you see initiatives both in microsoft oracle any other company um to engage startups right so it's it's necessary for for corporations to build a critical mass of people who will adopt their platforms um they might have some end-to-end solutions but in general they are more platform-oriented um so you you need to be good friends you need to understand uh where those companies will spend their billions and billions of dollars during their cloud and ai platforms and what are the regulatory things that they will overcome with their tons of lawyers and and budget for for regulatory uh policy makers all kinds of resources that you don't expand on your startup um on the other hand you need to also be clever enough to figure out uh what's your value add knowing that those companies will probably address some big challenges at a certain level but they will not be able to you know address very specific challenges of specific target audiences in specific geographies for example so i i manage the microsoft partner communities and manage programs with startups uh we always saw a lot of synergies of course there were points in time where as a startup uh ceo you you really want to know uh you know am i am i putting my bats in the right spot and it's a fair question but honestly i don't see that uh as as as a competing battle i see that as there is some overlap which is which is normal and healthy uh but how do you really play out and and and stand out as a great partner for a corporation um that that that's kind of kind of how i would look at it as a product manager in a startup so i'm not sure if i answer that the question but uh at least i rephrase the question yes it's about it's about know what are the advantages that you have as a startup right and understand on the other hand what are the capabilities that a corporation has and you may want to give up on this on this end of um of the battle because this is not where you're going to win and i think it goes very much with everything else that we're saying about product management and prioritization right knowing what are the things that we're good at and what are the things that we should address first so prioritization is you know maybe the number one rule of us product managers so i'm very happy that you mentioned here as well and both zohar and ronnie actually bring experiments from the um startups field so i'm very happy that we already got to talk a little bit about what it is what it is like to to be a stirred up in the healthcare domain and we're going to learn a bit more about that very very soon so ronnie carlos has a question to you and he is asking can you truly test your product before you launch it what are your tips for mvp prototype and anything that has to do with idea validation in the world of health related products um wow mvp is uh it's a tough term uh it's the minimal viable product and i read an article a while ago that said that an mvp is like eating burnt pizza and you could do it you could eat it it would be somewhat nourishing but it's not enough you have to look at the product as an mlp a minimum lovable product if you want people to adopt your product you have to have one feature that they fall in love with something even the smallest thing that says you know i'll keep using this even though it's got you know lots of quirks and it's not fully worked out and it's not fully baked but there's one thing here that i really like and for that i'm going to make the effort to adopt this new technology that you're giving me and i feel that when we do focus on what's that one thing that we're going to give the nurses or the patients that they're really going to fall in love with our product despite all of its shortcomings then they are a lot more forgiving and they will be willing to stick around with you in the long run and one of the things i love about medisafe is at the end of the week when we see user reviews we see people who have updated uh their user reviews in the app store you know saying i've been with this app for five ten uh not ten but five seven years and it just keeps getting better the developers they listen to feedback and they're improving and that's really fulfilling so about the mvp i hope i answered can you really test it no you could roll out slowly smaller groups uh smaller companies but because there's so much regulation once you get once you're ready to get out you have to get out um at least that's from my experience thank you very much zoell benny do you want to add anything to the discussion yeah i think that regarding the testing it's really it's not easy but there is a very specific road for a medical product and there are many companies that do it with usability studies and since it's very very common in the medical domain to go to a company it costs a lot of money sometimes it costs up to one 100k so you need to really put your money for it but but this usability studies really give you from professionals some feedback before you go to the market and then you get the fda stamp and you don't want to go there as and again sometimes the fda requires you to have usability studies in order to release the product so it's really not the traditional way but there's a lot of customer input inside this um procedure interesting yes benny yeah i know i i i just want to add most of it was said but uh i think the short answer is is there there is i think it's it's quite different than in in other environments i mentioned you know other groups as uh you know in developer tools you can create mvps in a very different way and and and it's a lot less constrained to the environment i think the bars in health obviously are quite different uh but we did have uh you know as we at the time had a consumer health platform that was built for the u.s market and we started to test it can it work in canada can it work in uk and there's different uh regulatory environments different kind of policies uh it wasn't that trivial to build a you know i'm a computer engineer but i was not running the r d team i would talk to the rng team all the time and and as a product manager i was quite worried at the beginning you know there were many different ramifications and you're trying to build a global platform so the whole testing plan uh was was more complex than i've seen before in other groups uh but in a short way yes it's possible it's just uh it needs to be a lot more thoughtful um how you do that but absolutely we had uh we had mvps uh we did have uh uh you know beta uh versions of the solution we we did a lot of pocs so it is possible it's just uh requires quite a lot more uh sophistication i would say product managers out there just be creative about what you create good points you all and jonas has a question to all of you and actually there were a few attendees that asked the same question so i i know that many in the crowd are looking forward to learn from you on this one and he's asking how do you keep yourself educated about the domain and the different trends news and achievements i feel lost with so much to follow because we're talking about regulations right we're talking about trends and we're talking about developments in the tech industry that may relate to the healthcare domain and each one of these segments of knowledge acquiring actually is different from one geography to another because it may be that there is a new law or process or requirement in latin america but it's a different whole story when we are talking about germany right so if all product managers need to keep up with the trends and the new products out there it seems like in the healthcare domain the challenge is even bigger so guys what are your tips for that i was really thinking about the answer for this and i was thinking about how how do i do this lately and i collected the the list of things that i really get information from and it's a long list actually and i think that as a product manager you don't need to be the best regulatory person okay so you don't you don't go today you know to the mailing list of how what is the regulatory changing in your country you just get the highlight but there are many um information channels that you need to be updated with what happens in the world and i think i i can give and some practical recommendation i'm a subscribe to both cv insights mailing lists and pitch book which are i think are the two leading sources of information they are actually matching funds with companies you can look at each one of them what is what are these companies are doing and the investors so they give you a lot of market trends and as as this is push and you get it through your email all the time so you're investing every week you get some information what's happening in your in this in the area uh also you need to read like your standard newspapers and know what happens daily in investments because investments are showing you what is the way where is the technology going and if you have a specific domain so get the mailing list of the specific domain that you're in i'm dealing with machine learning so i'm in the facebook groups of machine learning and also my facebook uh feed is a lot of professional groups that i'm in so i was thinking of quantifying this and i think that you need to invest about five percent of your time getting new information and it's mailing it's information it's meetup and conferences that you have to go and you have to attend otherwise you just stay in place and the last thing i i can recommend is try to use a new tool i was starting to use a figma and a monday uh they are great tools and they really save a lot of money for my company and i think it really keeps you up to date and and in domains that are not specifically yours if you're using these kind of tools so you need to invest in your education thank you very much ronnie benny do you have anything i actually want to add on to what zell said um i really like what you said and i agree you have to curate uh your feed uh i actually don't really use facebook but my linkedin feed is uh highly curated i follow um groups and categories that are relevant to me both in healthcare and in technology and i know that when i get my cup of coffee and i go into linkedin it's taken a lot of time to play with the settings i also have a bunch of bookmarks that for sites that i like so once i finish my linkedin i could run through those on a daily or weekly basis especially if you link their home page or uh their main news page then you're getting the top things that are most relevant and um curating i think that curating is it's time consuming but once you get into the habit of sitting down with your coffee and 10 minutes and reading then it makes it go a lot quicker and you don't have to start looking for uh things that are interesting or relevant for you to read and it's a sort of investment in your own professional growth very nice yes i just want to say three short things one i wish i had met zora 12 years ago because i do all the things she says now but i had no idea at that time uh two is that um um a different angle i'd like to say as everybody he already said you know you can't keep up with the regulatory so you can stay informed i follow uh funds like hearings we have moon funds which uh invest mainly in healthcare there's different ones across the world um but but still it's not enough um the second thing i'd like to add uh it's not a plug-in for you maria but i'll be very honest i'm a mentor here since 2017 i love this place i'm also mentoring in other places as well believe it or not and uh you know there are interesting uh groups for example uh this is particular to israel but at the time i was in the u.s similar groups like there's a med tech group in rana there's lots of different other places where you can be a judge or just an attendee and and you get to actually see the pictures you get to mentor some of those startups uh and as you try and help them you end up learning more than than you would ever imagine that's the second uh thing and uh and the last one is um um completely different angle on a separate note you know even if you do all those things probably you're not going to be able to keep up i mean at least in my case i was trying to keep up with multiple chronic diseases multiple geographies multiple whatever and it's literally impossible right so at some point uh you have to just let go of trying to be a control freak you're never going to be on top of everything and uh you know regulatory is just one example but there are many other things and uh instead of being trying to be a control freak what i became was a master pmo i had i was i had 12 years ago very very poor project management skills to be honest and i realized that at that point in time my product manager role had a big big hat in project management and i basically built uh eight uh work streams and i realized to be the global product manager for microsoft hell votes i need to understand um you know uh regulatory i need to understand legal in compliance i need to understand security and privacy i need to understand user experience i need to understand so many things that i know what i don't understand so eventually you need to know what you don't know and you need to find experts and i found people they were my champions and i i i became better at um creating venues where we actually would uh ask the right questions because i didn't know even what questions to ask the security guy or the privacy guy so i had to really find out what are the questions what are the things they didn't know what are the things that actually matter and then eventually find out what are the people who could find me those answers but uh like i said first you need to find out who will provide you with the right questions before you try and find the answers so that was my my lesson learned and uh i i just had to really immerse myself in the project management space and you don't need to win the game alone and so yes i know that you have something to it no no i think i i completely agree with benny perfect and this brings us to the next question this next question is from liguran and it's to you zohar and he is asking our product is a non-fda approved product i'm looking for guidelines for what we cannot do for example if we provide health oriented advice to our users what kind of a device would not be legit now let's open this question a little and not making it to be just specifically for the around concerns and say if we already talked before about you know getting educated how do you get educated about the specific of you know the legal aspects of our products this case it's a non-fda approved product what can we do so i have some examples and it's very interesting questions i think because many startups are dealing with this what can we tell our users that afterwards the main important thing is not to be liable okay all the companies trying to today to tell their user things that they will not be liable if they're using or not using their advices so it's very tricky okay so first of all it's very dependent on the country what you can say in israel to your audience is not what you can say in the us i will give you an example for example uh there is one company that tells you your test results and in the us you need to go through your doctor in in israel you can get the test result immediately so it really depends on your domain your region sorry and and a very good example is k health i don't know how many of you know k health but kenho gathers information from the big data and they don't tell you what you need to do they tell you okay you put inside your symptoms and you get down the flow and then they tell you okay from what you told us then most of the people that had your problem presented with this condition so they don't tell you anything about yourself you don't tell you what is your problem you they tell you what are the majority of the people that had the same problems so this is a very sophisticated regulatory and they had very good regulatory consultant they told them how to tell the story that they want in a matter that will get off with the regulatory and they will not be accused of being liable okay so whenever you have a product you want to say something get a legal advice and get the regulatory consultant sitting together with you and trying to manipulate how you're going to tell your user things that will you will not be liable but you can still tell them and one of the exact another example is that you reference to a very good source okay you say i don't say it i i reference you to a peer-reviewed article that says that you need to take this um medications into your case so you're not you're self-recommending and you're not liable but you're pointing them and you're an aggregator of information so many companies have the same problem i love i love the answer and the emphasis again about not winning this battle alone and being creative as the product managers that we are thank you very much for that and i want to remind the audience that we've got three experts in the domain here that are waiting for you to to ask them questions so if you have questions please use the chat and just comment with your question and we will have a few minutes for q a at the end of the session where the guys will answer your questions so looking forward to know what is it on your heart and mind when it comes to product management in the healthcare domain and now we are moving to a question from shannon and this one is to you benny and she's asking would you recommend partnerships as a strategy for market penetration in the healthcare domain our goal is product growth and we are trying to think outside of the box i could just answer with yes absolutely but i would not stop here i will talk more but i i do want to add one couple uh item before if you don't mind what zoro just said which i think was was a brilliant example just to elaborate on it um there is um obviously a an endless list of of do's and don'ts and again as we said depends on if a medical device or in software whether you are in the uk us singapore or whatever um so we won't get to that now but um there are a couple of golden rules at least i learned in on my journey that uh you know again there's no universal truth in in healthcare systems but there are some basic principles that when we decided we want to build a platform and we wanted to work in as many places as possible uh with with minor fine-tuning uh we're gonna adopt so the first the first one is uh and again it's a little bit more u.s centric what i'm going to say but it actually applies to majority of the countries i worked with uh which is uh based on consents right so one of the biggest of things in in uh not just in hell but specifically in health as you enter the cloud ai space and all those things is the fact that um again this was a choice uh you know we made it in our team at the time but i think it's sort of common sense we we said um there was a principle it's more philosophical thing but but it's kind of a pragmatic um all all the data belongs to the user and we didn't use the word patient because you don't need to be sick to take care of your health we use consumer or individual citizen or whatever name there was but but our user uh should be not just assured on paper but should feel like that he or she was in control of their data right so so in our example we would build a consumer health platform you could have all your patient health records there you could share all kinds of information whoever you want the point is that we we in every marketing material but also in the architecture of the system we made sure that you are the center of this irish it's not the nhs it's not the government it's not your physician it's not your hospital it's you and and everything you were almost pedantic it was a battle with the ux guys like okay you know it's a bit redundant but every single step that we were about to share data we had big not just a three and a half point font saying just click here and agree because you won't read it anyways it was really like we about to share your data with this institution we're going to use it for some we're not going to sell your data to an advertising company but we might use it as you said in an aggregated data in an aggregated manner without any personal identifiable information just to you know get some idea of epidemics or all kinds of uh you know health population issues are you okay with that so we try to be you know as crisp and clear on those messages so you don't get to like eight pages that you're never gonna read but you kind of understand what's going on and that builds like real trust you know it's not just a fictitious thing just scroll down and click and we're done with you uh we really wanted a few people were in charge that they actually knew what was happening and that especially if you're talking to a big tech company you know google microsoft amazon whoever um people really want to know what's happening right there it's their live at the end of the day so so that was one of the main things that um that we put in there's lots of other details but obviously again the common sense we're not selling information we're not doing anything that would harm you uh we're not gonna do anything without your consent basically and and that's uh that's kind of the the more transparent and deliberate you are about those things that then the safer you are um so i'm gonna back to your your question uh was about um uh partnerships right so so absolutely i mean i'm i'm severely biased there i i grew my career in incubation teams even though i was in a multinational company we had i was the only product manager in the team we had a very very limited amount of sales and marketing resources so you know we were startup within a very large company so we had uh our tiny piano that we had our deadlines to break even so you know it's it's different but not that much different than a startup environment um in some ways it's actually more restrictive to be honest because you're part of a bigger cooperation but nevertheless the point is um we opted especially in health to um to partner with not to partner with everyone but to be very deliberate against uh what are the kinds of partners you need to have um and what's our um you know mutually beneficial value proposition and that's true for any kind of partnership you build of course uh but i'll give you specific examples again uh going back to if you're if you're a tech company even if you're a health startup you probably have an md uh in your team you have an advisor who's a very renowned physician by and large you're still a tech company right so you're not an authority in health with very few exceptions we deliberately said look we want to partner with people who have the brand recognition and the authority to speak about health we want to be a tech provider so so we were very humble in that space although we had many physicians on the team i must say we had dr bill crowns who's now retired was a great physician in the u.s i was on tv newspapers everywhere and he was in our team but still you know he's one person uh we're driving a platform so um my point here is uh we we really tried um to be uh um uh partner-centric so so to give an example i'm not even sure you can see it but by accident i i encountered this was the the picture that we did we drew at the time and you actually see something here so basically if you see this this was uh helvo this was the platform that we built uh and then all the things that you see here is part of the healthcare ecosystem and they're all partners right so so you interact you know day by day with with uh hospitals with laboratories with um pharmacists um with employers and all of them are part of your ecosystem so what we're trying to do is depending on which country we're going to if you're going to canada uk us uh the system can be a bit different but for example when i launched that in the uk first thing that i said is look uh of course the nhs plays a key role because it's a national health system uh but we went to talk to boots the pharmacy and we came up with an application they could give to their users so there's some specific benefits for them uh and i have lots of examples you know milton keynes hospital and lots and lots and lots of exams doesn't matter all the examples but we actually chose those guys and says those guys are um have a reputation and have a key role in the health ecosystem we want to go to market with them if they don't see value in what we do if we don't interact with them we're probably going to get lost and we're going to probably uh be leaving a lot of value on the table um so our strategy was completely my go to market was all with partners uh in u.s we chose you know mayo clinic or new york presbyterian and dr oz and and people who are well known and and could guide us uh but not just for marketing reasons again we really wanted to be integrated with the health ecosystem be it with health insurance plans be it with employers be it with um pharmacists and hospitals so it was a long way to say absolutely i i wouldn't uh i mean there are always exceptions the answer is always uh always uh it depends right but uh in most cases um i would really look carefully on what are the kind of uh constituencies in the health ecosystem that truly matter that truly are recognizable in this ecosystem and for example if i was doing a diabetes uh application i would go to the american association of diabetes and i would talk to those guys at least and those are kind of natural fit but in some cases it's not that obvious but again i i'm very biased towards uh not just go abroad with 200 partners but like pick your half a dozen 10 12 key partners buy geography will buy uh segments and and really try and build something together with them or at least validate your model with them fascinating thank you very much for sharing this with us benny and uh lonnie are you ready for a question from lucy yes yes that's the spirit and lucy has a question and she is asking what are your tips for user testing our product is live and kicking but we struggle to collect feedback from our customers trying to get feedback from customers is like pulling teeth um i find that um a lot of times looking at the metrics a b testing seeing uh what gets more user interaction more user clicks is a lot more productive than actually getting user feedback a lot of times users don't always know how to refine uh what they want what you need to hear but um if we are testing um copy on a message why we need people to do something then we would test several versions and see the conv uh the conversion rates uh on different screens i find that usually you will see differences if you test the right things then you'll see differences and um that will help direct you in the way that you need to go you'll see whether your users prefer a more personal tone or a more authoritative tone in the app whether a button in a certain location will cause them uh to react more to press on the button um sometimes moving something from one place to another actually puts it um in the user's face and they see it better and i find that metrics don't lie so you could ask users from today until you know whenever what do they think what do they think but if you do test the right things and if your tests um are actually comparative then you will get better results than asking your users that was a great answer and that's not right just for healthcare that's for every domain that i've been in so far so yeah just like i i agree with you on on the well it's not an assumption it's something that we know for sure right like the numbers don't lie and if we can test something we should do it obviously um we just had a few weeks ago three sessions that had to do with user feedback and user testing so we will make sure to include links to them in the comments so if lucy or others want to dive in deeper into the subject as we are running out of time they can just log in and follow the link and watch the previous sessions and of course everyone else in the audience that want to learn further about user testing and user feedback and we have a question from maya it goes to you benny and she's asking we're a tech product in an article company in our team it's a puzzle of super techy guys and phd people that can barely use their computer how can we build a product culture that will come become a bridge of communication between the two groups wow how much time do i first of all bring maria mauria will drive the energy in your team um but then if that's not feasible the second thing is um um there is no no no like uh you know one one answer i mean i don't i don't know the specifics of your company but one thing that i can say is you know the health space i mean we are very passionate here we love it etc uh but it can get super dry right if you're dealing with specific um uh things and people call here bureaucracies or whatever the names are but there's a lot of things that can get on the way of of just innovating in health and we know that and it what makes this place so so um powerful i think um or or interesting the the one thing that i would suggest is is uh maybe it's kind of obvious and it's not only for health but uh you know get those people in front of real people i i find it like not every engineer might be completely passionate about their product which is ashamed they should be but you know it's not i wouldn't mention names i was 15 years of microsoft i loved my career i had products that i was absolutely passionate about and others there was it was okay but it wasn't really my thing for example i'm not a gamer and at some point i was managing the e-commerce i had to drive sales of xbox i was no longer a product manager but still i i'm not a big gamer so for me wasn't so exciting as being in other spaces like health or or or other uh segments my suggestion is um again goes back to empathy uh um in my personal situation i was completely passionate about this project i was running i was taking red eye flights all the time working you know very very long hours and super excited um but again my personal motivation my dad's a physician that was my dream and whatever it takes to make it happen i couldn't expect that from every single person so the one thing that for me even though i was super motivated um you know the moments that you know you start up life and you go up and down and then there's moments of down and you go to this uh we used to go to the shisha place in london 10 p.m and just talk about all the bureaucracy and these things we couldn't get away with and what are we gonna do tomorrow and how we talk to the lawyers etc and and in those things where my suggestion is you know those guys i don't know any i don't know who those phds are who don't use computers but anyways i would bring those people to actually meet customers right and and and i would say it's very hard you know if you are in i don't know i'll pick a vertical and hope i don't find anyone in e-commerce i was there you know you may find people are not so excited about the car i just want to order my my game whatever and get it you don't need to be completely passionate about it uh but uh in health i mean i i actually flew into um flew or took the train to very remote locations in england you know instead of being comfortable in uh in our office in victoria roads uh you know on the air conditioning and going to the theater afterwards um i went to like uh you know a remote place and i actually spent a day with not just the microsoft team but the hospital crew and all kinds of other health professionals um and that's actually with patients i met with the elderly people that we were designing the product for we did actually a simulation with them uh in real life to see how you know somebody who was at work uh who had a parent who couldn't be alone could actually be using remote monitoring which is something that i talked about but never actually have seen in real life somebody actually do that um so we actually built like almost like a theater and we we built those experiences of course it's not a simple endeavor especially for startups but uh but when you do that and then i call my team and look at these guys who are bored doing like project management spreadsheets why don't you come and see you know how these people are actually using it and they see these people with dementia who could have had you know a really uh terrible experience uh uh in life in general and we were making their lives a lot better we're making their relatives able to keep up with work and their own families and taking care of their parents um and so on it's a very long list but again in summary getting really like to see that product in action and like i said you know hopefully everyone loves their products but uh when you see a product like improving the quality of lives of people i think that the very very few people who would not be touched at an emotional level would not be uh you know have even tears in their eyes and say wow what i'm doing really really makes a difference it helps this family help these uh uh these patients with you know some really inconvenient chronic disease it's not just about roi and and efficiency etc they're like real lives that are impacting um so i don't know if that helps but i think that that's one thing that i would definitely suggest i think it will drive the energy up it will make the team a lot more uh into the uh purpose of of of their journey with all their hiccups um yeah and then this you know culture is a very long topic we can talk about many things but that would be the number one thing that i would number one would be to bring more about the number two thing that i would suggest thank you very much so i agree with you filling our feelings are contagious right they're viral so if we get people to be re-excited about what they create they will feel a part of a team and hopefully will unite around it and will work like a theme so thank you very much benny and ronnie sean has a question to you and is asking i sometimes feel like ux is treated as the least important factor to consider in our domain do you feel the same and if so what do you do and think about it um i've worked in two healthcare companies in one i agree a lot of times my boss said you know our users are not that important ux ui wasn't the most important thing for him and it killed me inside because knowing how to build good screens uh flows that are efficient a good ui ux expert will be able to streamline even the most complex processes today i work in a company where we have some wonderful ux ui experts and honestly they're worth their weight in gold um [Music] i think that everyone who uses our products from doctors and nurses to patients uh see that the flows are efficient that it's easy to use we don't assume that people are very technological we don't push them to do anything we could shorten anything we could do for them we do and if you don't have a good ui ux person on your team get one advocate for one um it's seriously the best investment that you could do explain why it's important in your company show them that um you know conversion uh on activities it's dependent on good design and good user experience and someone who really knows how to get your users to do what they need to be doing um is it's just you know it's a gift it's everything so uh advocate for someone who's good perfect thank you very much uh benny or zora do you want to add anything on that i i want to add something really small that most most companies in the medical domain at least in israel when they're small they don't take their own in-house uh ui weeks uh but you can find many good people that are working at subcontractors and if you sometimes the way to to bring them on board is not by bringing them inside the company just at least finding one and getting them to help you maybe they can do some small changes not a big work but it really can make a very very big difference with not so much money and as and as ronnie said this may be the way to actually not just bring them on the team but also to advocate right because if you're starting small and you're fixing just a few of the screens or elements in the user experience and then the the team can actually feel and see numbers the effect it has on the user engagement or other factors that are critical to the product this is this may be a win to advocate uh for bringing more experts into the team and having a wider experience set of experience set in them in the team so thank you very much for that and we're thinking one more thing yes both of you i just wanted to say um get even if you get somebody part-time on an hourly rate get someone who's interested in healthcare who looks at your product and says wow you know um when you get people who love your product as much as you um it's hard not to see the glean in their eye and they'll put the effort they'll honestly want to make it the best product and they'll help you and just you know having people fall in love and it's healthcare products you're actually making a difference in the world so it's hard not to fall in love with our products this is our chance to make the world a better place like truly making it a better place exactly for that and so um tell us a question that i i knew that will come but i was just waiting for this question to rise and he is asking what do you think will be the effect of coffee 19 on our industry so it's really a great question but i don't think it's only for specifics uh specific product managers this is really questions for companies like mckinsey and i was really when i prepared for these questions i was really googling about it and i really do recommend everybody that you really want to get some insights regarding maybe they don't think of all the aspects to google and find some articles about it and this is what i did but and i find a few and i took some points that i think was really really good and i think i also asked my colleagues at my work and they're like and i was like don't tell me the obvious you know what is obvious that everybody will tell you everything became remote okay so this is the first the the first thing you think about in your mind but this is not all that affecting present and in the future from the a coving and uh i will just talk about few things so um regulatory of change i don't know if you know have you heard that the the also in europe also in the us specific departments have made changes to the way they are [Music] clearing a product to the market most of them for testing so they really speeded up some progresses that were really uh much longer until then and giving them some specific designations that were newly used but on the other hand products that are not that corona needed was push back and really feel some constraints and the timelines are much longer in their domain um another thing is reflecting on funding and fundraising since most of the um ventures have tried to okay let's stop for a second and see what's going on maybe some of them have decided to invest in their own portfolio maybe some of them have built on fines that are supposed to arrive from other sources that have gone through uh the kovic period and now raising money is much more difficult uh another thing is the effect on the regula on the clinical studies i don't know how much how many of you are in clinical studies but clinical study has specific corona uh period implications some of them stop some of them uh progress but it's not the same you cannot meet the the monitoring sessions cannot progress the same way so there is an impact and it will reflect the timeline for a companies to uh release their products um so also what i personally hope that we'll get out of this uh situation is that i think a lot of the hype in the in medical industry have streamlined to the digital domain and i will tell you a secret when you have corona nothing digital will help you you need tests you need the doctors you need to be protected and they're all physical you can get help from digital but this is not what will cure your uh your uh condition so i do hope that some of the hype around only digital and let's go digital and many uh venture capitals are only into digital i will i hope that we'll go to physical products we'll go a little bit more to pharmaceuticals because i think the shift were only digital because it's much easier to you know to have regulatory approvals and it's much easier to have supply chains for them and the roi is maybe bigger but i think it would shift from shift some paradigm in this domain so super interesting my two cents thank you very much for sharing this with us we are so short on time but i still want us to have one question from the audience uh answered and priya sent us a question to our channel and i hope that we'll have some time to to share your thoughts and your knowledge with her about that and she is asking this one goes to all of you please whoever wants to answer go ahead and do that she's asking most of the product positions in the hellcat domain ask for familiarity with electronic health record ehr how does one acquire experience or familiarity in ehr when the current job doesn't offer such possibilities so how can we actually get educated or you know just trained in specific protocols when it has nothing to do with the actual product that we are currently working on if you want i can share my my personal experience because i had exact that situation happened 12 years ago so um i i think the the um you know again this is a broader uh generic theme but uh you know it also applies to healthcare which is you know in our careers as product managers or even in other fields uh eventually you wanna you wanna not just get promoted but you wanna actually uh you know do different things and work in different spaces different companies whatever and uh you know there is obviously uh i i think the hr industry as a whole is evolving a bit but it's still very uh risk averse so they will bring you if you have the experience they want and if you don't there will be very few exceptions where you'll be brought in because of your potential or your other things but uh nevertheless i i i personally just my real story it's not a fictitious example i had a dream since uh since i was a kid i was going to be a physician and then i discovered i faint when i see blood and then i realized i don't think i'll make a living out of medicine so i became an engineer and went to microsoft did my whole journey uh and eventually i i was sitting in my office in in redmond in washington and i see this post uh you know global product manager uh health solutions group at microsoft now i had no idea that group even existed first of all uh you know even though it's same companies like 50 blocks away and uh seconds i i i said that's it that's it my dream's coming i start to shake like i gotta get this job i don't know what i'm gonna do uh and and then i went through the checklist of what are the requirements and by then i had been in the company for six seven years i was doing relatively well as a global product manager uh and then i looked at the ten requirements and i looked in the check check check international experience and this and that blah blah wow i'm doing great and then comes the last one it says 10 years experience in healthcare i.t now i almost burst into tears i said oh my god like i've got zero i don't even know well i can't even make up a story here so i called some some friend of mine or was not actually a friend he was a career coach in new york and i said told him my story i said seth i i don't know you taught me how to get some really cool jobs i don't know how to get this job and basically he said look you all you have to do is to show that a if you had 100 of those requirements you would not even apply to the job because just to be bored to death you'll be doing that for ten years who wants to do that for 11 years right so that's the number one thing they don't want somebody who would be bored um second thing is you're going to show them that not only you've got the other nine attributes and you got them really really well but you are really not just not just a jargon you're not just oh i'm a fast learner i'll learn anything everyone can say that you have to give them real examples of things you've done that when you enter there for example your product managing the software as a service business when microsoft was just starting to do that nobody had a clue even in microsoft how to do that and neither the deal but you figure it out so you have to give them those stories and you say look if the only thing i don't know is healthcare i t i'm gonna learn i'm gonna you know and the reality is i bought a book i have here on my show uh 365 pages i read it over like a weekend and i said okay i know something about healthcar