Signature Proof Made Easy

How to signature proof

hello everyone my name is su Zack and I'm a member of the board of the foundation here at Stanley Community College and chairperson of the Community Relations and Development Committee on behalf of both of those I'd like to welcome you to the first a four lecture series that were holding in Stanley County we're holding these lectures to make you familiar with the diverse services offered here at Stanley Community College and to present you with interesting and insightful speakers I'd like to introduce you to Robert Myers program head for a cybercrime technology and he will present tonight speaker good evening you thank everybody for coming out tonight we are really excited in the cyber ground technology department to have mr. Grogan here I've been trying to get hold of him for a long long time and he is a phenomenal speaker he will give you a lot of good information he has been seen many times on the CBS show swift justice with Nancy Grace he's a forensic expert for them and he's a certified forensic document examiner he's going to talk to you about a little bit about forensics and what he does some of the cases he's worked on so please join me in welcoming mr. Thomas Kroger good evening are you doing today so just want to start off real quick here today in court on swift justice with Nancy Grace she went to sail the car not true she went and got the title nice ok the he's gonna take notice that you say every other sinners is alive today on swift justice with Nancy Grace for ten years she was America's toughest and most successful prosecutor now she has her own court and she's the judge the cases are real the decisions are binding and justice will be swift sir I don't care who says what I'm gonna find the truth starts now on swift justice grace Beverly ray bond says after she bought at 97 Dodge Caravan for 900 bucks the seller Teran Anderson refuses to sign over the title Beverly suing for either the transfer of the title or for $1,500 for the defense 32 year-old Trent Anderson says she never agreed to sell her van that she loaned it to Beverly and Beverly stole it to all of you ladies do you agree to be bound by my ruling today ma'am yes yes ma'am okay does that look familiar to you no I told the other judge you did not not ringing a bell no okay let's bring out Thomas Grogan please document examiner handwriting expert mr. Grogan I can't thank you enough as usual mm-hmm thank you now mr. Grogan when you listen to Durant Anderson she's extremely believable but then when you listen to her father this is her blood father he is extremely believable that's one of the reasons why I don't get involved with the backstory of the case smart very wise just give me the question documents the known samples let me do my job coming up was the signature on a bill of sale forged cancer and a chemotherapy that they give you can and does affect the handwriting travel consideration provided by rayvon versus Anderson was the signature on a bill of sale forged Nancy has our handwriting expert examine it right now what say you now we have the question signature at the top and then three comparison are known samples so the bottom three are the note right and I know from personal experience because I'm a cancer survivor myself cancer and a chemo that you the chemotherapy that they give you can and does affect the handwriting may I could show you handwriting samples of mine before and after cancer and they're they're very different I did not know that us it doesn't make things any easier I understand so but a few things I wanted to point out here is the base of the t's have this little a shaped at the base of T stem it's not closed all the way at the base up in the middle right here I do say it okay I'm an amateur but I can already see this a loop it's the same as that a loop correct now one thing I don't see though is she's got a loop on her D and there's not a loop up there right but that a is so overwhelming in that t is so overwhelming and also the s not closed up and the same loop over you have a good eye dancing not really and then you got this little flag coming off what do you call that well we call it a terminal stroke as basically where we're the trip ternal stroke is basically where the stroke ends we have the initial stroke where the the the stroke begins of the letter and there were Dan's or a cause of terminus certainly when yet but the way it comes out so dramatically there's gotta be some kind of a a name for that you know because not everybody has that it's not really a flourish it doesn't write and also the slant is very similar usually if someone's gonna disguise their handwriting that's usually the one thing they get wrong is a slant because it's it's so my new you usually if I'm to take on a forgery it's either from the slant or most most likely with the lowercase letters because what they'll do is they'll try to mimic at least the first letter of each name they figure well if I could make that look the same it's good enough for government work they'll let it pass but when I start examining the lower letters that's when people get sloppy what's your final render opinion well take it in consideration the chemotherapy and so forth may have had an effect on the handwriting and it does it is my expert opinion that the questioned document was indeed signed by Terrain Anderson mr. Grogan you really are something thank you something wonderful thank you thanks very much Nancy's decision is binding and it's annexed I have a friend that when she starts to feel a little ornery she texts me as to texts first text is Tom here's something wonderful and the second text about 30 seconds later is something special because he was seeing that it's like Nancy coming on to you or something what's going on there actually for those of you noticed that there was some continuity error in there did he notice how many times that the paper disappeared and reappeared in my hand okay the way they do those episodes it's like she tapes like 7 8 episodes Bam Bam Bam right after the other over a course of like 3 or 4 days and that was actually my second episode that we taped and the first one even even looking back and watching it I was so stiff I mean I was just because I was scared I was like Micah this is Nancy Cuevas I hope she doesn't rip me a new one on national TV that was so stiffened and so we had like one or two episodes in between the two that I was there for so I went backstage and and approves it Tom Tom you're doing good Nancy loves you you say just just loosen up a little bit ok have fun with it it's not federal court just have fun with it so the one thing that they ended up on the editing room floor was that little section where she comes to and says well I could already see this and this here and that's it I I thought to myself okay they want me to have fun with this so so I said at one point well Helen Nancy you don't need me anymore have a nice day and I walked off the set so but I don't think everybody for coming tonight and basically I'm going to be sharing some things about this being that the first of a series of lectures of other speakers that will be coming in and subsequent months when I talk about forensics what it is what it isn't and basically destroy all of your concepts of what is reality and what's on TV so I'm gonna I think I'm gonna burst some bubbles here tonight now but for shows like CSI and and and and NSC I think you know the whole thing people didn't know much about forensics and it was really when those shows started coming out that there has been a whole flood of people both young and old coming into as like we want to learn how to do this this is cool we want to do yeah that's how do we get to do something like this for our living and get paid to do it you know so other than like a degree in criminal justice the the the the higher educational institutions were really not very prepared to train these people that are wanting to get this this information and get trained to do this really the the the only way at that point was if you were an employee of the government or law enforcement agency that was pretty much the only way you were going to get training so as things started momentum started happening there's there's been more courses as far as forensics forensics overall specific fields and specialities of forensics but really the the whole thing of forensics is that your user a speciality or a special knowledge about something and you're applying that knowledge and skill to the court system okay now I have kids and college graduates call me and it's a how do we get involved in forensics I want to have I want to have a job at forensics so I tell them well there's no really degree in forensics but I tell them there are forensic engineers there are forensic doctors there are forensic nurses there are forensic psychologists so I encourage them to not get so hung up on that whole forensic aspect but learn how to do something like engineering doctor psychology stuff like that and then once you get a the experience and the training and the skills and that you can then further that to get more specialized training in the whole forensic aspect of it and learn how to do you know affidavits and and court reports and testimony and stuff like that so you know when some people ask me what I do it's not just forensics forensics is sort of like the umbrella over all the specific little niches that you could specialize in the whole thing about a forgery in my written affidavits and court reports and when I testify in court I never refer to something as a forgery okay and that is because of the definition of a forgery is that the the creation of a false written document or alteration of a genuine article and then to present that altered or copied document with the intent to defraud okay for me to use the word forgery either in my affidavits or testimonies is to imply intent that is not my job as a forensic specialist that's the job for the court to decide so in a realm of what I do in questioned documents is I don't say to something there's a forgery I say okay this question signature of this question document compared to such a such number of known samples or what we call exemplar x' is my opinion to a certain degree of certainty or beyond a reasonable doubt depending on what type of case I'm working on is that it was either authored by the same person not authored by the same person or no opinion and we're not no opinion is in fact an opinion and and the court system and for what we do the expert witness this is from the Federal Rules of Evidence now for ready students here tonight as well as the students that were videotaping us that are watching us via video there will be some people out there that will tell you you have to be trained by the FBI okay or you have to be trained by such a such a lawyer you have to be employed by a law enforcement agency you have to be employed by the government you have to be long by such a such a professional organization okay bullcrap