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hi and welcome to today's engaging for missouri webinar i'm alice roach from the division of applied social sciences at the university of missouri and i'll be your host today with each of these 30-minute webinars we intend to share research-based insights that leaders like you can apply in your own work to benefit and strengthen the state's agriculture and food system hospitality sector and communities today ben brown will present about the biden administration's approach to agricultural policy but before i invite ben to begin i want to share a few housekeeping notes first we'll close today's webinar with a question and answer session those of you who connected today via your computer may submit your questions in the chat screen to open the chat just click the chat icon that you see at the bottom of your zoom window if you join today by phone then you may email me your questions at roach am missouri.edu second all attendees are muted and may not start their video third if you encounter any technical problems during the webinar today then please let me know by either submitting a comment in the chat screen or send me an email at roacham missouri.edu and last we will make a recording of today's presentation available you can look for an email from zoom that shares more about where you can access that recording in about a day from now you can also find an archive of all of our previous engaging for missouri webinars on our division of applied social sciences youtube channel so with that we'll transition to the topic of today's webinar which is titled what changes for agriculture under a biden administration presenting is ben brown who's a senior research associate in the mu division of applied social sciences so thank you ben for presenting today if you could please unmute your microphone and start your video then we'll begin today's presentation thank you alice i really appreciate it and i look forward to today's program but i hope this is the first of many with you and others within the college and then good morning to missouri's agriculture community uh it's it's wonderful to be with you i hope you're staying warm on this chilly and brisk missouri winter morning i'm relatively new to mizzou but i'm not new to missouri i grew up in west central missouri my family still operates a farming operation there and so i'm very excited to be back here in the show me state i'm excited to be with you all today talking about a very broad and it's some ways challenging topic today alice asked me to talk about how agriculture looks under the biden administration and i think there's several ways to go from this spoke or several spokes in the wheel here we're certainly not going to be able to talk about all the topics within the time frame but if you do have further questions please put those in the chat and we'll make sure we answer those get that to you in some way shape or form so i want to start off with this slide this is the same slide i always started with my ag policy students when i taught the ag policy course at ohio state and it's really the role of how ag policy is made ag policy at some times is not logical but it certainly is practical and what i have found is that these four questions have to be asked that cert during some part of the process for policy to eventually reach a conclusion it starts with what is what is our current landscape and this is based on scientific observation the next question is what can be uh what is what is possible in the in the universe or what what is possible in the political realm uh this infers politics and due to political appetite uh the characteristics of the legislators themselves what will be based on economic forecasts uh you know knowledge of if this happens what will be the result and then what should be and this is where value judgment comes in we've all all been brought up with our own set of values and and influences of what we think is right or wrong and this is where the final product of what should be comes into play and so you know when we start thinking about public policy uh you know everything starts with an issue from a constituent level or from an organizational issue it goes through three stages or three different forms of of analysis whether that be based on facts values or myths and then it eventually becomes public decision and public policy ultimately has to rely on three factors or where economics ethics and policy come together and it's that part in the middle there that i'm pointing to that determines if policy will be made or what policy will eventually enter into the spectrum the smaller that middle part is the more contentious an issue might be uh and and there's different factors that ration all three of these components for economics it's price will it pay for ethics is it ethical is ration-based unconscious and then the third part politics is is it popular can we win votes can we get reelected in some cases based on that so again it's where the component of all three of those come together that we eventually get public policy i want to start off with a couple of policy thoughts and i have to give credit to my boss pat westoff kind of for this slide uh it's something that you know i think for when we think about policy we're aware of these channels but uh pat wrote it in a columbus dispatch article a couple weeks back and did it so articulately i thought i thought i'd include it in here but there's ways that policy development can impact what we eventually get in food and farm policy uh and it's not only just the initiatives of the legislators themselves but how that policy becomes law that also matters the probably the one that comes to everybody's mind right off the bat is that legislators write laws and that they get passed and signed by the president that might seem easy when democrats hold both the house or excuse me the white house the house of representatives and then the tie-breaking vote in the senate with vice president harris but they're going to have their own troubles and we'll talk a little bit about this when i get to my congress slide the second process is something that we're becoming very familiar with right now and that's through a process called budget reconciliation this is how the administration is currently moving the the latest coronavirus assistance package through congress there's a couple of pros to this one it only requires a simple majority so you only need 51 votes or 50 votes in the tie-breaking vote in the senate you don't need the normal 60 or you know at least no republicans filibustering it to get a bill passed this is something that's been used in the past it was used by the obama administration to pass some health care initiatives or their health care law um it was passed by the trump administration for his tax cuts and jobs act in 2017. so it's certainly not new in theory there's only one of these a year but i think when we start thinking about climate legislation is this some is this a vehicle for passing laws in the future and then the third process is through executive order and this is something we've also become familiar with as of recently and i think uh you know is certainly a quicker way to get some action passed but i want to dive a little bit deeper into that first you know when i think of president biden he reminds me a little bit of president ford from the standpoint by the way i'm a very big presidential nerd i love reading in presidential history and biden reminds me a lot of president ford uh ford spent 24 years in the house of representatives served in the majority role in the house of representatives before becoming vice president and president biden has grown up in the senate i spent 36 years as the senator from delaware and then he served eight years as vice president which effectively you know which makes him president of the u.s senate and uh then you know in the last couple years has been out of the public office but still has very close ties with a lot of friends in in the congress that he will rely on to come up with bipartisan legislation and he has traditionally had a very favorable bipartisan score card from the time he was in office in 93 when they started the sport card when he came out to be vice president 2008 so i do expect biden to have a bipartisan agenda now i realize i'm saying that at the same time that um you know he he basically is is saying my line in the sand is that we will have a coronavirus assistance package uh here soon and that it will contain 1400 per you know individual and i'm not moving from that even though several republican senators have have raised concerns to him uh you know he met with them but he is seems to be taking his own direction so i realized that you know by my comments about bipartisanship might not seem as sincere given what has happened but i do expect him to to have friends and move through the process at a relatively you know at least bipartisan manner so my biggest concern and i guess this is kind of my second point is that in general i think our policy here in the united states is starting to move towards imperial presidents and it exists in both parties um and what i mean by this is that each president comes in and immediately undo what the previous predecessor or the previous president did president trump come in and undid everything president obama did biden's coming in and doing a lot of the same things that president put president trump put into place a lot of this is through executive order we've certainly had a lot of talk about the speed of president biden's executive order use i like to remind folks that president trump was in modern day presidents uh used the executive order the most during his hundred days the his first hundred days in office biden certainly on pace to break that even exceed uh at least right now fdr franklin del nor roosevelt's a record executive order use so my my my concern here is that when we think about the uh the power that the executive branch now has whether that's through the presidency or most likely and more realistically through his cabinet appointees um we end up in this cycle where the the legislature has given their power a lot to the executive branch the executive branch makes a decision and then they get sued in the judicial branch for executive overreach and we allow the judicial branch to actually set some policy and some laws my my concern isn't that we need a call for unity we've always been a country where we've we've gone somewhere else because we didn't agree with somebody literally the reason the united states is here is because we didn't like great britain the reason my family's moved to missouri from ohio is because we didn't want to live in ohio anymore and we homesteaded the missouri so we've always you know had this trouble with unity but where i'm concerned is our ability to compromise and have respect for a different point of view seems to be lost um my old ag policy professor barry functional used to say compromise is not a dirty word but it certainly seems to get treated like that a lot in congress i told you i'd talk a little bit about congress before we get back into the administration i i think one of the interesting things uh for for congress right now is how they govern with split majorities or split parties uh pretty much right up and down the middle in both houses the senate is split by the slimmest of margins 50 republicans 48 democrats and then two independents that side with with the democrats that gives president harris or vice president harris the the tie-breaking vote in the senate um the house of representatives is also very close uh you know the margin moved much closer to an evenly divided house of representatives what that means is that chuck schumer the majority leader in the senate and then nancy pelosi who is the speaker of the house uh you know their hope is that all their rank and file members fall right in line that the ducks are all in a row the reality of the situation is every person becomes a king or queen maker an interchangeable term there meaning that they have the power that their vote really does matter and the reality is is that they're going to really struggle to govern at least in that partisan manner because there are several representatives and senators in both parties that are willing to compromise and are willing you know have their have their policies and positions that they're going to say hey if you want me to vote for this i'm going to need something in return so there is a lot of power right now in congress for bipartisan issues and i think it drives some of these issues to the middle the second thing that i think is of interest is when we look at the 2020 senate election some of you are rolling your eyes because you're like we just finished the election why are you talking about the next one uh the reality is is that the election starts the day after the previous election so we are now in the 2022 election cycle and uh republicans will have several seats 20 seats in the senate that they will have to defend compared to the democrats 14 seats the interesting thing is we've got several senior republicans that have already announced that they will not be running for re-election so four incumbent republican seats are going to be open open seats a couple of them excuse me pennsylvania and ohio will be highly competitive districts north carolina could be highly competitive senate race the interesting one is wisconsin ron johnson the senator from wisconsin said that he was going to finish after two terms meaning that he would be done in 2022 he's now starting to backtrack some of those comments so we could see another really competitive senate race open up in wisconsin if he does in fact decide to call it quits after two terms and then this brings me to my second thought and this is kind of the broad topic that i think maybe is my take-home message for today uh usda the department of agriculture in my opinion and again this is me just kind of saying what i think will happen based on some observations and i'm happy to back up these thoughts but usda will hold a high priority under the bind administration but it's going to look different where that priority and emphasis is going to look different than under the trump administration president trump had a relatively interesting relationship with usda and i think just farmers and ag groups in general because his view of usda was to support farm incomes and it didn't matter what else happened as long as farm incomes were steady so that could mean you know an influx of government cash payments and we'll talk about this a little bit later president biden seems to be taking a more general and diverse approach to usda so a couple of things i think start to pop out of this is that he sees usda as a way to do vaccine distribution and to support rural health care i think that's going to be top of mind i think he looks at usda as a way to help with domestic and international food aid and distribution the international component there is important i think he looks at the us's role to help uh international communities to suffer with hunger especially related to cover but even prior to covet there's a lot of communities that were really suffering with poverty i think he looks at usda as a way to to support that agenda climate change is inevitable um i i i think it was going to happen before president biden got elected but then with the biden administration and democrats holding both chambers of congress i think climate change is is just you know it's going to happen we're going to see action in that space i also see him treating usda as a way to help with rural economic development whether that's through infrastructure and broadband whether that's through access for small business administrations our small business organizations through bio mass production plastics low carbon fuel i see him using usda in those manners farm worker protections is a priority of vice president harris and something that she supported as a senator from california and then finally indigenous and minority farmers and we've already seen this start to pop up there's a proposal of about five billion dollars in this latest coronavirus assistance package to help with these indig nous minority farmers black farmers who you know if folks in usda really want to signal have been hampered and hurt by previous policies and i look for them to receive significant uh support under this administration so is this out of the realm of where usda has been in the past i'm sure you've all seen these charts of where usda outlies and spending go but a big part of it is through nutrition assistance and this was something that the previous administration really tried to rein in and focus more on that farm direct farm support as i've mentioned i see biden president biden really using usda for multiple different things of his economic agenda uh that's good uh because usda will will receive a priority position within his cabinet but i think for production agriculture this means that you know our you know our our previous policies all focused on production agriculture whether that was through income support or uh some of the other policies that president trump put into place might not be at the top of the pecking order of this floor around so we don't have time for everything in 20 minutes but i want to talk about a couple of things one there's just things i don't know i'm not a medical doctor i do not pretend to be a medical doctor i will not talk about where i think we go with covet or what should be done with coveted legislation um this is just a policy i i treat myself i just follow the rules and i try not to suggest what should be or what yeah what should be done with that we're going to talk a little bit about ag trade under president biden the farm safety net and then agriculture's role in climate change so let's start with covet there's as i mentioned just things i don't know i don't know when covet is going to end or what it's going to take to finish off the virus here in the united states i certainly don't know what regulations will be needed to reach that or if you know it'll just burn off when when the weather turns warm again i don't know those things i don't pretend to know those but one things i do watch is how it relates to regulations uh daily death or daily cases of coronavirus have fallen you can see the the seven day moving average there in red in the top graph they continue to fall under about half of where we were at the peak at the beginning of january the interesting thing is daily death counts have not fallen they've been chopping pretty much sideways uh for the last several weeks and when you look at uh you know the record daily discounts we witnessed last thursday it is concerning and that does seem to be the main measure for regulation home stay-at-home orders schools you know schools taken virtually and that does trickle over into our economy and this just shows this is a tracker by the oxford cova 19 government response tracker that shows uh government's response to coronavirus through state home orders regulation federal stimulus spending what have you the darker the blue the more regulations and it's a time series all the way from january of last year through this past january 20th in the united states our government responses has was spiked back in the last april and has been maintained pretty consistent levels since then i did see last week that iowa's governor reversed all their coveted restrictions and that they have started to move away from any type of restrictions at all but certainly as a country we have maintained pretty flat the reason i bring this up is because no matter what a politician comes in with uh for his platform there's there might be and usually is one event that completely changes the course of their their governing for president bush it was you know the 9 11 attack and then the war that followed uh for president obama it was getting out of the the housing crisis and the the the great recession that really defined his presidency for president trump it's been coronavirus so you know president biden's coming in with a lot of initiatives and the question becomes okay can he actually get to those policies or will we continue to work through covid related issues over the future i just throw this up here as you know the outlook for global gdp is put forth by the oecd from where they were projecting in november of 2019 to where their current projections are and you know their their expectation is that we it's going to take a while to get back to growth and that the growth is going to remain slower but there's huge uh positive risk and negative risk so basically a downside scenario and an upside scenario uh the interesting thing is you know we haven't really seen any indication of where that goes here throughout but where this fits into agriculture is we have lots of service sectors that are really struggling and luckily for us meat demand has not really faltered off because people continue to buy meat at the retail level but when we look at restaurants uh you know the the index for expectations of the current situation and future expectations signal that uh producers or restaurant owners uh are worried about the current environment but they're optimistic about vaccine roll-off and roll out and people returning back to eating at restaurants or at least take out in the future that's what the index and the rice shows us you know this is going to depend on several things and does have big impacts in terms of the the restaurant sector so it also feeds into gasoline demand which then ultimately turns into ethanol uh this is just weekly implied gasoline use uh the yellow line there is 20 21 we we remain 13 to 15 below a year ago levels um to this point you see the big drop down there last april and march as we shut our economy down um and people reduce driving that also plays into ethanol and ethanol represents a portion of gasoline demand and so we continue to see ethanol production and consumption behind year ago levels based on those lower gasoline projections so federal stimulus as a result of this does impact commodity markets to some extent um you know when we pump more dollars into the u.s economy that puts more dollars floating around in the world we've increased the supply of dollars and that tends to weaken our dollar history would say that all stimulus packages weak in the us dollars we add more dollars into the world economy and that's what i'm showing you here is just the index of the us dollar compared to other currencies around the globe uh we're on pace to pass another 1.9 trillion dollar stimulus package in the next few weeks and we continue to see downward pressure on the dollar it the dollar rose at the beginning of the pandemic as as people you know and other currencies flooded the market asking for us dollars because they deemed it a safe currency but now we're seeing the reverse happen where we're adding more supply to the market this feeds into the commodity sector partially because our commodities are export dominant we depend on export markets for the majority of our commodities and the majority of our commodities have a significant share of their production going to the export market so one of the measures i follow are one of the indexes i follow is the thompson reuters core commodity index it's equally weighted by the commodities that you see there on the screen and it's heavily weighted toward agriculture i'm in livestock and when we look at what the the commodity markets have done they have mirrored there's there's like a 90 or 0.9 correlation rate with or inverse correlation rate with uh the dollar meaning that when the dollar falls this index uh rises and that's what we've seen as the dollar has fallen the index has rise largely driven by those economic signals of export markets so uh when we talk about trade one of the big things i think people are asking is what stakes what stays under the biden administration from that phase one trade deal we had with china that president trump signed into law a year ago last january certainly we had record amounts of exports of agriculture products from the united states and you can see this is a peterson institute graph there of what their actual commitments for the year were and what the commitments they did have totaled you'll see we fell below all of those the question now becomes does president biden enforce this have measures of retaliation against china for for not meeting the agreements my expectation is not i think he will remain tough on china but it's just to be seen how this phase one trade deal fits into his his policy um he says he's not reversing the tariffs but i i also throw out that i think the non-tariff barriers in the phase one agreement were more important to us agriculture than the actual commitments of purchases when you look at beef and reversing their age limitations when you look at dairy milk and powder into infant formula those all had significant impacts in terms of what china was able to purchase this year that contributed to some of that so um here's where i see finance trade priorities being uh the first priority is a primary focus on the domestic economic agenda uh we're hearing some of the same rhetoric that we heard under the trump administration of make america great now it's just built back better and by american really putting an emphasis on improving our our wages for domestic manufacturing improving our competitiveness on the world market uh making our helping with um tax credits for for companies and helping with education i think all those fit into this first priority the second priority is the reversal of the go alone trade policies that we sell under the trump administration no more are we taking on countries by ourselves but working with others uh president trump on his third day in office pulled us out of the trans-pacific partnership i think biden could re-engage us in that that that's with you know several other pacific rim countries uh the the largest being japan and and others that allowed us to remove tariffs and and have a playing field that was appropriate to all to all buyers we've struck individual deals with a lot of those countries japan korea mexico canada uh but i i do expect a more multilateral approach um i expect biden to strengthen the world trade organization uh with a meaningful appellate body reform that you know was being attacked prior to president trump all the way from president bush and obama that there was concerns about that appellate body and i i looked for president biden to work within the wto system but then i'm not expecting any new trade agreements i i think president biden really wants to focus on the domestic economy and any new trade agreements or expansions to trade agreements will have to be abide by labor and environmental enforcement and i i expect there to be uh large conversations about environment standards uh even for high-emitting carbon countries even maybe a carbon fee so uh one more topic i want to talk about is farm income certainly you know we've seen an increase in government payments uh fitting into farm income last year reached a peak of 30 or not a peak but a spike of about 35 percent of all farm income came from government assistance i think this fits into the the administration more as a carrot rather than a stick but you some might view it as a stick that if you want government assistance you're going to have to match a public good meaning that we're these are public dollars and the public is asking for things like carbon neutral or more cover crops um i i think we can expect more regulation tying uh environmental procedures to farm income and through compliance is what i'm expecting on that side so i think there is an applied policy question given the large ad hoc payments and assistance that we've seen as if the current federal safety net is not meeting the responsiveness or the effectiveness sought by u.s policy makers and then given that we've seen now livestock programs through the coronavirus food assistance program and even some ways mfp market facilitation program what does the future look like for a livestock safety net program i think these are questions that this administration will have to answer i look for biden to focus in on farm income and global competitiveness basically how are how competitive are we on the world market one of the interesting things is through these large support programs we put a floor under cost of production this just shows the the impact of farm returns with payments and without government payments the red line is with farm famous the black line is without i'll draw attention right there in the middle that is early 2000s when we were seeing record net returns without farm payments turned into break even or even slightly better returns with government payments when we look at what that did the cost of production land values did not fall during that time nor did we see crop input prices fall during that time so we've put an artificial floor under our cost of production when we start looking at other countries and how we compete with them i think that's going to be a question that has to be addressed is how does our safety net actively reflect the needs of the farming sector while also helping us be competitive in the world market i'm going to skip this slide just in the nature of time because i'm going out but basically what i was trying to say here is there's several ways to support farm income and we certainly heard a lot of different measures proposed by 2020 presidential candidates on both sides of the aisle but what i'm expecting is us to stay with these income support measures through ad hoc programs and other direct pro direct payments but with more conservation compliance added to them i'll draw attention to this slide just real quick because this was a poll that purdue university with their center for commercial ag put out in terms of what was concerning two farmers over the next five years and more environmental regulations and taxes both showed up i do think regulations will become something that we will have to watch and i do expect at least more concentration on some of the regulations that president trump reversed i think we have a different philosophy on that now the tax programs are interesting because uh certainly nothing has been introduced for taxes in this current congress or by president biden and so the only thing i have to go off of is what he talked about on the campaign trail i do not expect any type of tax bills uh probably here soon or in this first year just from the standpoint that we're trying to figure out or the administration's trying to figure out how to help people recover from covet and certainly they aren't wanting to take money out of the economy so i certainly have got a couple of things listed there that i think are important for agriculture to be aware of um and to you know just pay attention but i will see we'll have to see what happens so i'm expecting something between uh the tax reform prior to 2017 and where we are at today i think i think we'll see a middle ground there as well so i see alice's camera come on and i know i'm running light i'm so i'm just gonna jump ahead um to this slide right here and i'll finish up here there's been a lot of talk about carbon and climate change in in all phases of government it's something that has really picked up in the last couple years i'll just point to this slide to say that we hear and talk a lot about government control when it comes to carbon neutral but companies private companies have really jumped on this bandwagon and as a result a majority of our ag companies now also have carbon reduction plans as well and so it's being driven by their customers asking for this by their businesses and it's also being driven by investors saying we want to support and invest in businesses that are reducing carbon and so there is a private uh push for this uh within the the carbon neutrality and carbon reduction world certainly we have the paris climate agreement where the majority of the world fits into this and by the united states re-engaging in that we're signaling to our businesses that um you know they can they can compete in the global market by having a government that's that's backing them so uh certainly you know everybody wants to talk about how politics are pushing us this direction i would argue it's individuals an investments that are pushing us this way and it's not a negative for agriculture it definitely seems to be a positive that it's a carrot and not a stick net zero does not mean no emissions it just simply means we have to offset those emissions with some other form of carbon offset and for agriculture we have a great story to tell there whether that's through biomass energy or sequestering carbon in soil or trees and so you know i think there's great opportunity for that within agriculture i've got some impacts here i think alice is going to share my slides and so you can look at these but you know when i get to my takeaways i think usda has a new identity under president obama a more broad more inclusive approach outside of just production agriculture certainly you know that that has its pros and cons but that's just what i sense from this administration i do not think it's a completely new trading environment as the as um maybe a reversal all the way back to the buying positions on trade but i don't think it's the trump administration's trade policies either um and so more transparency can be beneficial for agriculture a stronger dispute mechanism for places like mexico where they're now talking about uh banning some pesticides and gmos those will be important as we move forward and then i think just the the approach on climate change is is a question of how big not if i think we're there and i think agriculture will be increasingly asked to uh track carbon emissions and and figure out ways to capture that data within their operations and it could mean opportunities for financial profit by doing these these types of things so with that i appreciate your time thank you i have gone three minutes over so i do apologize for that and if there's any questions i'm happy to answer those and if you've got any questions that i didn't talk about and i know we went through a lot of things really fast you're welcome to email or call me there so with that alice i apologize for going over and thank you for your time thank you ben um we are past time but i'm just going to ask ben to stick around and address a couple of audience questions um so you do have those answered a couple of attendees had questions about the ccc including the possibility for ccc funding to be used for non-agricultural priorities and a carbon program and also the potential to increase borrowing authority so what are your thoughts about these proposals and then also there are potential impacts on agriculture yeah that's a good question so certainly uh the the credit commodity corporation has been a policy that has in a lot of ways been used more liberally over the last few years finding new ways to use those dollars uh it's it's an interesting way to kind of circumvent congressional appropriations or having professional approval for things the question now becomes did the previous administration overstep that because there's certainly a lot of legislators that have reviewed that and have wanted that that authority to kind of be reined in so it'll be interesting to see if that changes but as mentioned there's been a lot of interest in using those funds for a carbon bank i i'm no lawyer i certainly i think i have my doubts if they can legally use that for a carbon bank uh they might have to be real creative on how they they step it up but i was once given some advice that i think is very appropriate here congress can do whatever they want by passing a law and making a change and so just because something isn't legally or legal right now doesn't mean it can't be changed or that laws can't be unamended uh but i guess for me right now is is that carbon bank that usda is interested in setting up certainly provides farmers a legal aspect and a backdrop to make sure that they're meeting some of the the standards that companies like cargill and indigo ag and others are starting to push out as carbon markets for farmers so you know it's a regular regulatory environment that helps um uh put a process around something that's being market driven at the point so great thank you and then one last question what are what about biden's support of renewable fuels ah good question i didn't talk about that i didn't have much time to talk about that today we could have done a whole 20 minutes on that as well uh certainly you know the again we haven't seen any legislation come out about renewables uh it hasn't even really been talked about by president biden or hit any of his administration to this point that's all we have to go off is what he talked about on the campaign circuit he showed strong support for renewables during his his campaign and ethanol biodiesel all those products during his campaign uh it was interesting yesterday michael reagan uses the president's uh appointment for epa to lead the epa his nomination was advanced out of the senate environmental and public works committee by by a bipartisan vote but there was six republicans that voted against it largely because they didn't get the clarity on biofuels that they wanted and he and i mean this in in a way that i have facts to back this up michael reagan is inheriting a mess at epa from the previous administration because they left a lot of those biofuel decisions to this administration and they'll have to work that out and that's going to take time so i guess my message for you is he was supportive of biofuels but we're going to have to see in the next couple of months and i do think it's going to take months where some of those policies get worked out and what they look like so excellent well thank you ben for sharing today's presentation and thank you to our audience when you exit zoom you'll see a post webinar survey will load in your browser if you could please respond we'll use the results to improve the webinar experience and also brainstorm future topics you should receive a recorded copy of today's webinar plus the slides in your email within about a day from now i hope you'll join us for future engaging for missouri webinars later this week we'll send our upcoming webinar schedule via email again thanks for joining us and have a great wednesday thanks ben thank you