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[Music] hello and welcome to the ambitious accountant series my name is sari javadana and i will be your host in this series we will be exploring the career trajectories of ambitious accountants demystifying stereotypes and opening your mind to the value accountants can provide business owners as strategic advisors accountants have taken a backseat for too long it is time we heard their stories this series is sponsored by briska an accountant's firm strategic partner we enable australian accounting firms to offer management accounting services to their clients and repositioning themselves as trusted advice thanks for tuning in hello everyone and welcome to the ambitious accountant video series where we talk to accounting firm owners about how they got started in their career and what made them start their own business today's guest is vicar sewage general manager at pinnacle advisory and consulting group in melbourne hi vickers thanks for joining us on the show today would you mind sharing a little bit about yourself and your background hi sorry thank you for having me um look up i am i've started this business um one and a half year ago my journey in melbourne started with 16 years back when i came in as a student and had to do a couple of subjects did my masters and then started working as an internal monitor for wilson parking i was a parking attendant and as a student as well so um did bit of that um and then they asked me to hey you know we're doing this how about all that you know operational as well as fatal type audit what do you think i thought that was interesting because as students if you get an opportunity to work full-time or or somewhere where you can actually progress your accounting career without going 20 60 30 40 50 doors it was just happened and just i took it as a snap um and started working in wilson parking for a while internal audit once i got my paperwork sorted i started in my cpa then came the management accounting side which i did for a good five years um so basically internal audit management because something then a couple of finance manager roles um type companies then another role with the futurists which is a manufacturing company as a plant accountant the whole journey revolved around the management accounting people management presentations audits investor presentations relationships with them with the cf ceo cfos and ended up doing um a group financial control for three years um then just um something happened and i just thought that whatever i've done is so much relevant to the sme that if i take this knowledge these templates these things to a smaller group it is so much valuable for them and i've been thinking that for like three to four years and just one day this i just sitting in this just and without thinking all my wife said i'm gonna do this without whatever you you feel like wow it was like all out of the blue out of sooner very spontaneous very spontaneous because i've been thinking about this but then um i had no clients at the beginning then i got one client i said okay part-time i'll start to understand what the business needs and all that but then my traveling was going out of hand with these companies um multinationals obviously um very complex um and my team was doing i think 25 30 people at that point i was getting too much in trouble and it's all like this is what this is not what i signed up for sort of thing um and then i thought okay man i can do so much more um and without without take the politics out of it and just do straight away go to the sme sector you services and contribute straight away um so i did that for one two three um and then once three organizations and started working um and yeah so that's pretty much the journey from a from a very um what do you say um career type of the 15 years of my uh well it's not easy to put it in a minute or two isn't it well that's actually a quite a you know quite a quite full of fascinating story you got there um all right so we'll go back to where it all began you know the question why accounting was it a historical family thing or was it a school thing for you um so i grew up in a you know an industrial hub of north india a small town called louisiana that's very famous for its industrial um supplies especially in the history and um you know the garment sector is quite strong there and the steel sectors so those are the things that grew up and my father has been a businessman i've seen him work very hard right from day one i think i got my learn basic learning um business from him you know the numbers and things like that didn't go into accounting straight away up to i was undecided um what then i took up commerce um when um you know from me 10 to 11 we got a few months of a gap around three to four months back then uh but not have it doesn't happen now but then we had nothing to do you know people like here we'll take a job right there i thought okay i'm gonna decide what i want to do i want to take up tutor three four of my friends but just for fun we started studying commerce you know a couple of subjects we started starting during the holidays gave us a chance to be naughty and play around as well so we did that um and um yeah it just came naturally is this one two three four i would never go back to science because i don't understand science and i realized that um [Music] i was meant for it i like it about all the statistics the regression correlation models and everything was like this for me people just watch why is he doing why is he and i think accounting and finance is more sort of it's common sense laptop in a few formulas that makes sense yes there's one way to put it look and that's that's where it all started and then i went in and finished my mba in finance from puna university um and then just kept going and then joined my father's business for a few years so in the beginning e10 i had no idea was a very average student um as soon as i entered the accounting environment i saw the commerce fee we call it um my grades were just skyrocketing what's wrong with this guy i found some you know studies i know but it is i don't know i just find it so easy that's how it all started that's interesting and then what have you done to become a qualified accountant what parts did you take um so mba finance does as a bachelor's in promise they do equip you with basic taxes corporate and corporate law all those kind of skills you know convert your qualifications into something so i did tax incorporated government law again um and um started straight away got um we here in two years before um it was easier for me compared to others the reason being i've been been working in a business for five six years with my father and before i moved here in back home in india i've never done it i always was a business man's person so i was always working with my dad yeah trying to solve his issues and work with him hand on hand so very familiar with the sme issues um back then and then that learning that i've taken from there i've applied in in the real finest field here for smaller as well as larger groups and i like to tell the story so i make the numbers dot i i don't want to submit something to a ceo with no story behind it and even if when i'm presenting um i like my team involved i want to give them the ownership of what they've done and my my sort of entire career has been also about empowering others and making others a lot of my team members are still in contact they've got a career i mentored a few cpa students the whole journey the qualification journey started from my masters in professional accounting to then doing the cpa and kept working in um commerce and for you know the whole 15 years then that's great it looks like you got the really good foundation from your parents um you know the business so you get the um you know sort of enter into where you actually want to pursue your career so it looks like um that was really good um so what was your first job out of the university or when you come to melbourne um from india so what was your professional job i was working under a audit team as an assistant internal auditor what that meant was that we had around five to six hundred different sites in different countries and obviously after i had to travel with this then um sydney you know with the team and within one year i started to lead two people in the team then within three years i had a team of six people with me um and we had the name head off at the lord who was traveling most of the time so i for a while i was actually leading the people internal audit is where i started and ended up into a finance manager and cfo role in the end look i've pretty much enjoyed all the different roles if they've added value in a different way each one of them the learnings are different um but that holistically is who i am because of those roles and those challenges that i have to go through yeah now that's right because you know it's always the experience you know makes us perfect yeah that's true that's true um we learn something new every day hey absolutely all right so with all your expertise um because can you explain what do you think is a misconception about accountants um so when we say i mean you go to a social function say hey what do you do say hi i'm an accountant oh so can you do my taxes what i'm not a tax accountant oh so no no you're in the garden not you said yeah i know well all accountants are not necessarily tax accountants because you know um we if we live in a digital digital world there's so much happening in the tech space there's so many things um that accounts as a commercial accountant that you should be involved in what happens in the true sense is that the perception people have is that if you do your best and your taxes you're an accountant that's the end of it whereas um the true role of an accountant will is much more than that that's what i feel like that's very true i get that all the time and so it's like you know that you know that deal can you do my taxes and i'm like sorry i'm not a qualified tax accountant so i i get you yeah all right let's talk something about more personal because what is something about you that would surprise people any unhidden stories that you would like to reveal here um look it's not i'm hearing people who know me professionally um they they know i'm very ambitious they know and some of them they actually told me oh you were going to do it one day or the other because you were not meant for this and i said look i didn't i couldn't get the resources together in the beginning you've got family and all that you're trying to balance things up as well as uh moving to a different country yeah um but i think one of the things that people don't consider as much is the ability for someone to be able to make something really complex simple it and i've heard from so many people saying oh you made it sound like a very simple world i've been struggling to do this for a while but it's done and so that's something that i think is sort of really different from um when you go to a compliance accountant or a tax accountant or someone who does practice this person who can do all of that but is more commercial yeah so you move from compliance focus to commercial focus and that's something that i think uh it is something that i have which is a little different or the the business does need that service um it is i hope it's not too late that when they they get to that like for example i've seen a couple of times that i did now they i've cleaned up two years three useless data or i have been able to manage their taxes or the management accounting side of things or the kpis so that they can actually know where the profit is coming from where it's going uh what could be where is the money coming where it's going why my profit versus cash flow doesn't make any sense i said i pay so much tax but raise the money you know and these are the type of questions i get a lot i personally sit with them um visit their sites and try and understand the issues and work with them okay as compared to we're sitting in the office we get an email we process it we give an answer that is something that personal sort of um um catch up or whether coffee and all that will be very very important that's what is different from what i do versus any accounting [Music] as well so what's wrong with that true true another i completely agree with that you know it's always you need to sort of listen to the others um and you know listen to their story to sort of you know go that extra mile to you know help your clients so that's great um the next topic i wanted to talk about is what have you seen working in this current corporate environment and what could you recommend to the listeners how do we thrive in this new unknown and all that uncertainty look um in this environment look at the business obviously whichever business you run there is an impact um now some businesses were thriving in that tech businesses for example you know all the ubers and all they're having a ball you know and then the issues with which we have for the businesses that are in the restaurant area or in higher education is one recruitment's the other consulting is the other way there was that um outreach to personally see and make decisions is missing i mean boardrooms are great virtually but sometimes do miss that that personal and attaching terms of managing and making decisions quicker on in the boardroom rather than doing it from zoom but zoom has been able to do what is required to be done but it hasn't been i don't think you're still missing that thing um now the businesses have to look at cash flow they have to be more focused on um the spend that they're going to do in spite of all the common handouts so very careful planning is required for businesses to thrive going the next four months there's the damage that has been done and there is a recovery plan and we can assist with that in terms of trying to understand individual problems and try and devise an individual cash flow plan now we don't do systems and just to uh plan the depressive button in a tech software and do it we we try and understand and listen to the owner so something that is i think missing uh in the industry that is why the wherever i go is a strong inclination of octave let's work together now the limitation we have is that we can only work with businesses who sort of are on the verge of understanding that there is there is a change required um and the businesses who don't think that is there is a contribution of compliance for an accountant and we do an education seminar for them to try and make them understand this is the cash flow issue that they have to manage this is the profit within the resources that they have got this is the time to make full use of the available resources make sure your staff is on board make sure you talk to them if they can cut their hours they can manage the minimum you manage at the minimum cost for the maximum benefit that that's what's required now use your resources to the utmost talk to people it is so much important that you share your strategy with your staff do not leave them hanging that is i think there's communication issues and make sure your management team is fully aligned on what you're planning to do so as a management consultant i sit down on all these board meetings even i've got an idea from a non-executive director for another company which which we just do once a month sort of one hour board meeting and the impact of discussions in that meeting is huge you know people come up with so much brainstorming happens this is the time to do that this is the time to listen to your management consultants listen to all the people who how you've been working with you you hired for a long time and i bet what i've seen the last 12 months is that so many people have become so much flexible and on the other side i've seen businesses realize the importance of people they have realized the importance of managing their finances in times they have realized the importance of budgeting forecasting forward planning thinking and that is crucial for businesses so my message to all and everyone is get your planning head on make sure you're 12 months you manage your cash flow and y ur profit make sure you people are informed make sure you consult with all your main managing people and bring them on board on the strategy yeah wow yeah that's very um detailed explanation and uh absolutely right i think it's the best time to use the you know utilize rather than you know seeing the negative side of it rather you know make it more of the positive side and make the use out of all the time there are businesses who will be struggling and they have to do the different processes of they're not able to survive or i mean i would say take expertise that can [Music] anybody in fact talk to the apo make sure yeah absolutely um so you um have been in this uh accounting industry for so long and you mentioned at the start of this conversation that you know you sort of um started off with the science uh background so have you ever wanted to change careers um so no i think simple answer is no i tell you why once i got into 11 and 12 um and started working in a business i i never thought i'll have to eventually go and do a job because i never thought of moving outside um few years with the family business i thought family businesses at doctor deal was given a lot of different um personalities in the room i thought i was okay well i've got my mba why not i've explored something different so um i just came in here and that's what i'm picked up accounting again because that's what i know and i think um doing dax and cpa was not hard for me i would only study on the train going into work and coming back from work that's all i got so then i've got kids back home so the study was tough uh having said that once we've gone through that um all these um cpa and all that but these this opens up doors for you and i started going through different i've never stopped um looking for opportunities when it comes to improving my skills i exactly knew i wanted to be a cso i exactly knew that um i am i'm more relevant to people where i can explain things i'm not a typical tax accountant and i never went there although i've done tax and cba and all that but i've never went that much as a speciality yeah i think i am a virtual therefore to the extent that i'm more aligned to sme to bring the large business expertise the servers the processes the system that they have to bring them on road to the sme so that they can make fully into that um not just enough the concept of financial co-pilot may seem very sort of remote for many smes but given what we've gone through um it's a no-brainer it's it's basically you need someone to bring your books up to that level you need someone um to get your books in order to the extent but if you want a million dollars or 2 million 10 10 results for your business you can actually get that funding and we can make that happen for you we can explain the numbers to any lender we work with you on that um and i'm working on a couple of tech products where we're basically doing the funding for them we go to the venture capitals processor systems and and the live plan on the next 12 24 months is discussed and then on the other side of the fence is some companies who are not tech ready we advise them how to do that how to be that path level um all these um investments that are being done by companies like telstra or even ford when i used to work there they um they they're very heavy and digital they're very happy their balance sheets look very heavy on software development and from our point of view sme only takes up a few cannot basically take up the full gamut of an sap but there are system systems out there there are programs or apps out there that can make their life easy only if they knew how to hire an expert to do that for them and that's what we we actually go in and build team process we hire accounted for that we hire for them we build processors and if they want to um you know we explain them what are the benefits of doing it in-house versus you know our sourcing we do all that with them and there is a client who's actually going to outsource the recruitment side of things you know um and then it won't be long where this industry will start to sme will start to pick up more of outsourcing and bring it more on board and i i think it's it is um it's initially maybe requires a bit of planning but i think um going forward it is a good place for sme to invest in yeah so that's great i think it's a great entrance to my next question because uh so what are you looking um in terms of i mean you know this is a very different accounting work that you provide so what made you start your own accounting firm and what services do you provide um so um not a typical tax accounting firm we um if we get the textbook or anything else we've got an outsourcing partner that we work with um and then they do all the tax exciting things but now we bring the books to a level where we exactly know what the text will be but we do need the compliance side now um my main focus on my firm we will be doing tax in the next six to 12 months but my focus primarily has been for the last 18 months on american consulting uh where we do a monthly package for the client where we look after the systems and processes we have a look to go in do a you know um sanity check the discovery process um go in what are the pain points we go through that then we devise a 90-day action plan for them and then that next plan describes how and what steps are we going to take to heal those points that are painful at the minute for from a finer perspective hr perspective so it's a full gamut of management consulting you can pick and choose the services you want um for example if you don't want recruitment of staff you already got that that's fine we will still give our recommendations on um what type of ar ap require what are the add-ons that you can have um we go typically beyond zero um i know many sme have zero and i'm i mean zero is there but again there are systems out there which can make things a lot easier for sme in terms of dashboarding and all of that um and then from that point onwards we we go in and implement the plan that is discussed and then we continue on a retainer trying to maintain their systems process and the implementation continues and we do the end for them manage the structure that is it's like a group consolidation process whatever is required from um from an entity perspective as well as group perspective we try and work with their staff as well the staff management from the finance perspective is also managed by us so there's a range of services so it's a mix of virtual cfo uh going to the level of a full-blown management consulting you could use personal consulting where we we could actually work with the directors on their personal goals as well a bit of coaching in terms of where they're headed what are the key ingredients of a good manager uh we do a bit of that as well so there's a it's a holistic package where you could pick and choose what what you would like to do something different from typically what accountants do but i think the knowledge of finance systems and processes required to have scaling up of any organization that's what we do we that's why even on my linkedin i i try to stress the sme is the high growth sector a smaller organization today in five years can multiply to 10 10 times that is the potential but are you keeping in in pace with your systems your processes your people um you know if you have to build a management team i can help you with that if you want to build um um a system you can do an erp implementation not many accounts do that so it's a mix of commercial accounting so i call it financial co-pilot so because i mean you're sitting with them you know you're inside the business you're not outside um which typically most external accounting firms are we are in the business we work with the business to grow and so hence my um my forte is from the larger groups or the is to bring that larger group expertise to the company a relatively smaller size but on a high growth trajectory make sense yeah yeah absolutely so what's the um sort of the benefits that the smes would get out of um having a virtual cfo and you know like an outsourced kind of way um so if you can explain a bit more on that well yeah so when when you've got an outsource to account typically you do your books you give it to them to log the taxes now there are a lot of hacks before you go and get your books to tax account there's a number of things internally you've done the crew of accounting that you have to think about internally like for example operationally you can write off certain things you know operationally you have to put certain things now the external account will not know your business inside out whereas with the business when we have our weekly meetings and uh fortnightly meetings whatever the fact goes on we will know exactly what to put in a pnl what to put in a balance sheet not at the end of the year but the stress of managing that is gone we will do all the compliance dates and processes set up so that everything is automated but they don't have to actually send physical files and they said okay log on and do what you have to do everything is done for you all they're going to do is just logic so what i'm saying they will do their checks and balances don't get me wrong but it's so much easier for them i had a client who's got a text account and i'll give you an example here and um they haven't met in two years all he's done is online i said okay so you haven't oh no he's i thought i called him he's not everything's all right it's excellent okay so you have a bad manner what's your next bill 180 okay wow we looked at some things in this okay how about it we there's a few things i think we can do you know 20k you probably don't have to pay because you've done this xyz your billings already advanced things like that we went through a few things oh okay nobody told me that so nobody's working you're busy running the business you don't have time to look at what's the crude what's wrong and the account has never asked the question so what i'm saying is the difference point of difference comes in where we are with you compared to where we meet you you know at the end of the quarter or at the end of the month now in all fairness the rules and regulations and tax accounting is very very important don't get me wrong but that's a commodity i want to go beyond commodity i want to go hang in hand with the business man now there are different ways people do it um there are many techs who said okay well how about you just take the equity and not take the charge well that's fine you know if it's something that i really want to do i would invest my time and energy in it to proceed successfully there's a number of index that we go through they're wanting funding now a typical accountant will go through a process which probably is you know made very very sort of in a system or in a very um unskillful way if you go to a text now because what he's going to do he's going to get someone else to do that's what i've seen yeah what i want to do is that get that operational finance idea in the sme that you probably have to get someone who can work with you now they cannot hire us here for that's for sure i mean they're beginning to grow they've got so many plans that's where we come in said okay well while you you're getting ready for that we will give you that service at a fraction of the cost you you basically we are your cfos you can come and ask any questions about whether it's compliance whether it's you know of operational whether you want a financial model whether your team's got issues with you if you want us to hire people um or you you know we will do all of that now that's really big value that i've seen in the last 12 to 18 months that i've been in this game it's a really valuable product for many years and you've never thought that they have something that like that available to them the thing i've seen in the last three to five years is that even the deloitte and kpmgs have now got a cfa safe advisory bank because they see it's a growing market for sms and um what i'm trying to say is the personalized services that we will provide are quite similar to that yet with a lower price tag and this is what personalized service so that's just the crux of few services and the benefits that that sme can get um so yeah so i'm very passionate about what i do and uh and i'm very passionate too for any client that comes in on my door yeah now that's true and i think it's a great way to sort of do a business you know you need to love what you do and um so it looks like you know that's where you are heading and what um are you looking to do next in your career or you know what is next for your business um so in the next 12 months we um we're doing a digital marketing campaign we're working with marketing i've never done that before so i've never gone to the market to actually market my services but i do think people need to be advised they they have an education campaign which is advising people on what we do uh and some case studies on actually my client which have what i've achieved in the last 12 months and i want that to be um available for people to be that's what my next goal is i do want to introduce tech services in the next 12 months working on that that's something that is required the science sometimes doesn't want to have multiple accounts although it does make although we do something very different so sometimes there is a need to do the whole package yeah so one stop shop is always helpful um that's where we headed um and um yeah just work on some interesting clients next year based on my campaigns and that's what i've planned to do but my service space is pretty much the same not adding much more than text yeah oh fantastic um so finally which is what is the best piece of accounting advice you would like to share with other listeners today coping advice i think i've been advising all from food yeah probably hard to pick one very very subtly but i don't know accounting advice i think for you you mean for the accountants that are yeah it could be anyone or someone who's starting the business or any accountants or clients you know i think the service delivery is something i do think that companies need to focus on especially in the supply sector they're all advertising um the cfo type services but i think there is the compliance companies have to pick up their name in the next 12 24 months to sort of add these services and i'm running the other way down uh i know that but um and that's service delivery has to be important more conversations with the client is important it is important to follow up with the client i think that sort of personal service is quite missing um well there is quality advice with but you still have to make sure that the clients are comfortable and have more conversations and pretty much the service delivery i think it needs a revamp in the next few months look we're busy with commodity type services um and we have to still look at the asset staff we still have to look at all these basic compliance stuff but i think the real value for a client is that you automate for them your service delivery model has to go more systems more processes more automation that's for the accounting firm becoming accounting accountants i think um focus on your soft skills nice very very important focus on financial modelling become a digital entrepreneur think about how what are the financial issues face or what are the what are the lacking areas where you can't automate things uh try and get something that can automate things for sme so they can focus on the business not on managing the appliances or the day-to-day admin um and look a lot of companies are doing that um and they should also look at most of the companies who have to look at the outsourcing options for their clients because i think it's um it is going to be vital in the next 12 to 18 months reduction of costs is important but basic admin stuff perception type stuff or any anything to do with calling could potentially be outsourced and could result in a massive saving to the bottom line yeah no that's absolutely right and thanks so much for your great expertise because i think it's a nice way to wrap it up for sure today and thanks for sharing your wisdom with us but before we do finish it off if our listeners would like to get in touch with you what's the best way to contact you um email me call me my number is 0421-593-940 or you can just email me my full name wikisoup pinnaclecfo.com love to have a chat um anything you need any advice or any any conversations i'm happy to have a quick comment with anyone right and thanks your turn today and wish you all the very best and stay safe out there thank you for having me pretty nice to talk to you thank you so much likewise