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the cannabis conversation a european perspective on the emerging legal cannabis industry welcome to the cannabis conversation with the new desai where we explore the new legal cannabis industry by speaking to the professionals they're helping shape it so it's been another busy week my kids went back to school today so no i haven't spent the day drunk i've been mostly in a dark room meditating and enjoying the silence but on a serious note as happy as we all are i do think i'm gonna miss them a bit but uh it's great that things are hopefully starting to get back to normal the sun is starting to come out to play a little bit more dare i say it there's some cautious optimism but i think if the last year's tours anything is to not get too carried away with anything at the moment so fingers crossed but on the work front i've been continuing to talk to a really great wide variety of people and actually uh looking at a few projects in the psychedelic space psychedelics is a weird one i mean i'm really interested in it myself and there's obviously quite a big overlap between the people that are interested in the cannabis industry and also interested in psychedelics industry but i've i guess hesitated on doing an episode on it because the show is called the cannabis conversation however i do occasionally post articles on linkedin and they do receive pretty good feedback so i'm going to throw it open to you guys if you would like me to do a show on psychedelics i do know quite a few people who make great guests to give us an overview so let me know via linkedin email website canvas.global and yeah if there's enough demand i'll i'll get it on the go in the meantime though back to cannabis got a really great show with a really brilliant guy called cullen who i met a couple of years ago from the us and it was great catching up with him enjoy on today's show i have cullen reichardt cullen is ceo of green bros inc which is a u.s company and is a world leader in harvesting solutions for the hemp and cannabis space cullen welcome oh thank you i appreciate the opportunity to be on and uh talk about the stuff i do it's always fun yeah great to have you on how you doing at the moment you know a lot of craziness going on in the world well i mean our whole business model kind of got turned upside down because of the cobin the cancellation of all the trade shows we rely on the end of the year especially the the mj biz con which is you know 35 40 000 people that's a big boost for us going into the new year but we didn't have it this year so here we are kind of going hmm not sure exactly how it's going to work out but but everybody's had the same problem you know honestly and the industry's doing doing really well overall there's a lot of real positive movement in the industry sales are still doing just fine we're at full almost full production capacity right now usually we have a little bit of time in january we do a little bit of revamping and stuff so we're able to do a little bit of that the schedule is still coming up pretty quick so you know no rest man yeah yeah yeah well we met product earth about 2019 i think and you guys had your machines out or some of your machines out which is so i guess the face-to-face conference circuit is pretty important for you guys it's interesting because the mod you know business models change as as business needs change right but there still is that real poignant or powerful kind of opportunity when you're sitting face to face with somebody you know and this is great i mean you know sit and meet and talk on the computer is great but there's a missing element you know for sure as we're all well aware but we're trying different ways of bringing that experience in having like like little zoom meetings with very few customers and bringing real close look at the machines and kind of going around you know it we're trying it's not the same but it's interesting yeah everyone's having to adapt aren't they yeah cool we'll talk a bit more in detail about what green bros is up to in a second let's maybe start with you personally though and what sort of attracted you to the cannabis sector well those are really big questions i'll just try and chop it down a little bit but uh the answer is i was in the i.t space i got out of the navy i had my clearances i was able to get picked up into uh government contracting in the i t space and i spent uh spent several years doing that did really well for a fortune 500 company was a chief engineer for hewlett packard and was just not satisfied and honestly internally uh didn't find the work to be gratifying and um was missing you know missing out on on what i thought life was all about you know but you know i had a good job and a great job and let's be realistic i had a great income and a great job and it was a great company i mean hewlett-packard was a great company there wasn't any complaints there but i reached the limit on where i could be and i had gotten involved in the cannabis space through my family my dad at the time was uh was a producer up in northern california and he was like you know you got it you got to be doing this this is where the money's at blah blah blah so it kind of started out as a hobby type of thing i found out really quickly that i wasn't very good at it i'm not i'm not a great sales guy and i'm not a very good grower you know my brother on the other hand he could grow anything but me i just you know i just don't have the green thumbs man my thumbs are brown they just everything they touch dies so but i'm really mechanical and i've always been very very mechanical ever since you know i think my i took one of those stupid tests in high school and i said you should be an engineer i should have i started so i started inventing stuff around solving problems in the cannabis space you know that's really what kind of launched into this whole thing i think in 2012 i was building a machine that i invented in my garage and traveling up and down the coast of california trying to hawk my wares you know knocking on doors and stuff and then we the company kind of we sold it we've got what happened was i actually that was the first machine and then the next year i developed the trimming machine and the trimming machine revolutionized what trimming looks like because it's so close to hand trim you know unless you're very connoisseur or you can't really tell the difference i mean if you use the machine correctly even could connoisseurs can't really tell because the bulk of the product is just beautifully manicured so that machine revolutionized you know the dry trim space and took off i mean the first year we were at 60 000 in sales the second year we were at 350 000. third year were three and a half million and it just went you know we're like whoa look at us you know so yeah it was crazy man and you know all that time i'm trying to get back to make sure i'm answering the the right question you know but all that time you know learning to not only learning how to develop products and bringing invented products to to market but learning how to market a business and learning how to grow a business and learning how to source materials and i just became you know so this this whole adventure has been like this accelerated ramp of learning and i found myself to be you know constantly challenged constantly pushed to the edge constantly out of my comfort zone trying to understand how to do this without a real road map you know there's business road maps on how to build a business but this space is unnavigated you know so i try and uh we try and follow along with with some practices that we get from other industries you know there's some really important things that i pull from the navy and from other companies and stuff like that but there's so much so much of this is uncharted it's kind of interesting so i don't know that i got all the way to the answer no no that that was brilliant and the thing that's really sort of struck me is you know it's great kind of being a problem solver and and sort of thinking about it from that perspective but it's a bit of a jump from that to being an entrepreneur what do you think was the when did the penny drop and you think right i'm going to go for this wow so there was this moment when i was we were looking for money to because i know we had invented the trimmer and i had a friend of mine working with me at the time and we were looking for money like how do we get this is the thing like we need support i can't really do this i don't have a job if i don't have i'm not gonna walk away from six figures to go into la la land man it wasn't even i was scared a little bit you know to be honest but there was this moment when when i i had this kind of real clarity and i just knew that i can't do both you know i just can't do this for this company to the level that they deserve and need because they're paying me well and i can't do this other thing at the same time and i was raising my my boys as a as a single dad as a matter of fact i think when i was dating my wife at the time but we were she lived in vegas and i lived in san diego so there was you know it was basically raising two two boys and and trying to build a company and trying to start a relationship and all these kind of things and and and still work for another company and it's like ah but you know you get this moment you go this is it man and i thought you know at my age i'm not gonna do this again like this is this moment i'm gonna take this opportunity because i can always go back and work for these guys you know i have the skill set i've done it before you know i know how to manage i can take care of this stuff so i'm gonna i'm gonna walk away and i'm gonna try this on my own and that was that yeah i love that i mean it is that kind of moment right yeah if not now when well i'm sure i'm sure you have the same experience i mean that's one point in time you had to make a decision like okay i'm going to make this i'm going to do this podcast thing this is what i'm going to do i'm going to go after this right totally and i loved it i love those stories cool let's actually talk about green bros why don't you tell us a bit about the company what sort of products you have and you know what sector you're operating in sure so we're started out solving problems right the first thing was a dry sift uh machine for for taking a trichome and creating a dry sift that people can process afterward that was a tumbling box the second machine was the trimmer and then uh the third machine really was the de-stemmer and then the fourth machine was the sorting machine and so kind of this the initial stage of the company was you know finding holes like needs for the for the processing side of it because that was the product that i hated when i did it like trimming was the thing that i couldn't couldn't stand it was so tedious and so much work and it was just like god and essentially i'm kind of lazy so i'm looking for a way to make things easy you know and uh that's where i got that's where i came up with the ideas about these things but you know i end up working my ass off anyway trying to figure out how to make bring these things to market but that's how it started and then i kind of had this other moment in the journey where i was just like you know we can't be a one-trick pony you know we can't be stuck behind a single product and and the product that defines us is the trimming machine and that's a great product but what happens when you know somebody else comes out with a better one or what happens if you know they stop needing tremors i mean i don't know what you know there's all these questions like i'm stuck on this ride with this one deal and so the idea was let's not focus there let's focus on on becoming a solutions company like let's look at the whole problem that people face after they create this product what do they do when they harvest let's look at all of that space and and that's what we started focusing on more about three years ago and that has led us down this path of you know we we've branded ourselves as a solutions company and we're starting to put together multiple pieces of equipment so you're seeing automation come into play where you're not just having one machine you're putting multiple machines together so you're getting a much better throughput and a much better more consistency out of your product you know you're starting to see what we see in all other agriculture right refinement of process i mean if you look at what's happened with corn and wheat and all these things i mean now they have one machine that drives through the fields and it does all the work as it's dumping it into buckets you know we're not we're not that far away you know uh the fields of cannabis are getting to be that big and those machines are going to come for cannabis you know and we want to be part of that because we're we're thinking about cannabis all the time as a cannabis company and we're thinking about how to do the work that the labor that's so intense in this uh industry so we want to be focused more on in a growth area because i don't like again i don't want to be pigeonholed and say well you know we do make the best trimmer absolutely guaranteed no bones about it but i don't want to just be that company i want to be a company that that we you know we connect with our customers we provide support to our customers we provide guidance we give them other companies to work with that they need you know we just recently started partnering with a company called roll pros uh it's a joint rolling machine actually rolls joints astounding beautiful machine and the product is magnificent you know compared to to to cones it's no comparison it's it's no comparison at all so you know finding companies like that little companies are starting up in the industry and partnering with them bringing their products to market and providing a big robust face for green roads as a company to tell people show people like listen this is our passion is how you produce and become better and so come to us and let us help you get better so thank you yeah i mean that's great and it's great to hear you talk about focusing on a being a solutions business because yeah it's like you don't want to be blockbuster right you want to kind of be wedded to helping people with their problems and that how they may adapt over time so that's really that's brilliant of that and we'll actually i'm going to dig in a bit more because like i said before the call i quite like to do it from a kind of 101 perspective so taking us through the harvesting process but before we move on to that just obviously kovid you mentioned earlier has been a challenge in terms of you know the conference circuit but have you been fundraising at all during this period of time and have you have you found that's affected that at all so we've been very fortunate because we've been working you know the whole time so we haven't been i haven't had to do any of the government support stuff or anything like that i've been able to keep my whole staff on you know and and so i think i'm very i'm very grateful for that opportunity and very very happy that we've been able to do it that way the government here did a great job providing the support that they could provide and a lot of small businesses you know were able to survive or able to survive because of that but we've been able to survive without that so i'm very grateful for that but the fundraising question has always been kind of my achilles heel like we we've we got funding one time i paid it off and i bought i bought the guy out two years ago and now it's a whole solely owned enterprise you know we are looking we have a we have a machine again another partner company and we we own the technology on it we have a license on it it dries and cures in 24 hours it's absolutely astounding it gives you see the coas that the values all across the board out of this process are better than hand drying or hang drying and this project right now it's the the machine is going to be going to a farm for validation testing we've proven all the tech now we're just looking at scale but that machine alone is another company you know because of the value proposition of it an just the size of the equipment so yeah i mean this is when i go well how am i gonna do this man i don't know we're gonna figure it out right so yeah i mean exactly it's a bit of a journey isn't it you know and i suppose revenue is is the best form of investment in terms of keeping you in control of things but sometimes there are opportunities there you might need to get there a bit quicker yeah and that's right so i mean there's like one of the adages that a good friend of mine used to say is like you know you you have the car and it's a well-built car and it's doing fine but you just need more gas and that's that's kind of where we're at like we could use more fuel we got more fuel we're going to go a little bit faster a little bit farther so we haven't been active i have not been active in that space it's a shark tank out there and no pun intended but i mean really it's brutal out there and there's guys out there just trying to take advantage and because we're in cannabis space we are not a cannabis company let's be clear we're an equipment manufacturing company who sells into the space like there's no cannabis in my facility you know so but we still have to we get screwed by the by the by the investors or the banks the banks won't touch us i mean i can't even get the banks to give me a an equity line so the banks don't touch us and investors come in and they go oh well your cannabis man you guys are going to be killing it we're going to make some money on you so they want huge returns or a large equity stakes and it's just this isn't really the business and it's not really the growth model if you look at what cannabis grow companies and producers do their revenues are significantly higher you know ours is a long slow climb like this companies although it's steep right now it's still going to climb out it's going to be a long slow you know we expect to be here like levi's was right when when the gold rush kind of dried up they still sold genes when this dries up we're still going to be there doing something that's the plan i mean to build a company that can that can sustain life without cannabis because we didn't i didn't understand i don't understand what the what the life process of this product is right and we'll be here as long as it's here because we love it and i love the industry i love the people and everything but to think about this as a you know forever project this doesn't make any sense but the company i think of as being a forever company so the company has to be able to you know kind of move in that direction but so here we are going well uh you know i fund everything on our own so take profits out of the company put it right back into the company but you know we're getting to that point where a good partner that's reasonable uh would be a great benefit somebody who's really actually wants to earn a good rate but isn't going to kill me because i'm in cannabis yeah yeah yeah well all the best for that well the best it's challenging environment but i'm sure you'll find some good partners at some point but let's get on to actually you know talking a bit about the subject matter look one of the things i love about the podcast is i get to learn and ask questions about things i have no idea about and so harvesting cannabis or any crop really is is a totally new area to me so if you wouldn't mind maybe you could just give us a really high level overview of of the harvesting process and maybe bits that you guys get involved in how you help sure so cannabis like every crop is harvested and and there's a there's a million different ways to do it and there's a million different ideas about when and how and so forth and so on but basic the basics of it are you know when the when the product is or the crop is ripe or really at the right at the cutting edge of being ripe like right on the verge depending on on the company that it gets cut and they're saying the two ways to go from there either you trim and manage it in a wet condition which we know we think is bad or you do it after it's dry and then and dry you know traditionally the way the cannabis was always handled is like any herb was it was hung and dried and cured and there's this whole maturation process that happens with the plant so you you take it you put it into a barn or into a room where the temperature is right the air flows right and you let it just take its time to dry out and kind of naturally cure itself out and become becomes more potent it becomes more flavorful it becomes more valuable that way if you when you do a wet wet is an answer to a volume problem and was initially done in northern california because of the rains at the end of the season you would get rains that could crush your harvest right so you had to get it down as fast as you could and trim it as fast as you could and get it somewhere i swear it's going to be dry you know so that was kind of the panic moment and that's what created the whole the whole wet environment so a lot of people still kind of go after it that way and large producers have to right because they they don't have the space if you think about the amount of space it takes to dry and cure it's a huge amount of space and consumption right so if they can trim it and then dry it they they save a bunch but they lose a ton of value in the product just from a uh you know from a quality perspective in my opinion and what we believe is definitely the try is the way to go but anyway you get it down and what the next step is to pull the buds off of the stems and and trim so you either dry it and do that or you do that and and trim it wet and then dry it so that makes sense so those are kind of the two pathways in our pathway you know it gets dry it gets de-stemmed and then it goes into the trimming mechanism and then from there we go into sorting where you separate the sizing it's kind of a misinterpretation or misunderstanding to say that bud size determines quality but there is something still in the industry because honestly uh small buds can have the same kind of thc values and everything that larger buds can larger buds have a certain appeal bigger is better you know so we separate you can separate those out and then you people package those differently right so a higher larger sizes will have higher quality or or higher value and smaller sizes will go off to another process another ancillary process where they're going to be either turned into a wax or an oil or ground up for for pre-roll or whatever process so that's all based on company right on the company's goals and what their product list is and and the products that they offer and the products that they sell most which is an interesting thing because some companies you know focus in this area and some focus in this area but it always comes down to kind of the basic same kind of things you're either processing it to sell it for as flour or you're processing it to sell it as an extract and both of those require some kind of sorting or separating of materials so we we have a great sorter system for that once that's done you get to your final product then you have packaging and of course packaging is just as essential as everything else so weighing and packaging and and providing that final product for the consumer is super essential so we're in all of that space so basically as soon as the plant gets cut come see us you know that's where we're at yeah and do you do you provide this as a service or do you just sell the machinery so we do we just we're an equipment company right so we provide the equipment we provide we'll provide guidance on how to or process management best practices things like that a lot of people already have practices in place and so we come in and we evaluate or work with them and maybe make suggestions we're not here to tell you how we're just here to our perspective and and allow people to see maybe there's some knowledge that they can gain from us maybe there's some value that they can gain from our experience you know it's one of those things like people get very particular cannabis is a very particular plant people get very particular about how it's done they don't want to be told you know and so we're not in the telling business we're in the information business and the support business if you will and i assume like automation and systems are obviously designed to kind of speed up the process and to deal with large volumes what are the kind of trade-offs that you you have to do if you're doing that well yeah that's a great that's a great question i think that the the commoditization of anything has a trade value right if i was a really good gardener which i've already established that i'm not but if i had a really good garden i could grow much better fruits and veggies than the grocery store is going to give me but you know i can go to the grocery store and get really good quality stuff stuff that most people wouldn't know was inferior because they'd never seen you know premium products so that's the difference is what you're talking about you know the issue is volume when you're in volume and you're doing large q what you need is the best and most consistent product you can look at any uh company out there that's in a large mcdonald's right mcdonald's has all their own potatoes that's why their fries taste the same everywhere you go because they grow their own potatoes they process they do it all the same and everybody gets the same stinking potato and it cooks at the same temperature in the same oil and it's boom it's magic it's always the same you know cannabis is right here on the edge of that we're just sitting on the edge what of that kind of level where you have a company who has a great brand great style they come up with a great strain and people really enjoy it they expect that every time they buy it that's just who we are as in this world and this culture that we live in when i grew up getting weed you got what the guy had you know and sometimes it was fire and sometimes it was wow man i can't believe i just paid for that you know but that's not what we demand right we're demanding uh consumers demand you know we've demanded by what we buy with our dollars right so consumers demand this level and that's what our role is is bringing companies to this level right so you're always going to be able to do better than mass production but bass production is where the where the volume is at it's also where the consistency of product is because you're doing things the same in order to get these peak productions you know these peak performances out of every aspect of your business so if you're doing that you get that same product every time and that's where you start to hit that sweet spot right well that takes equipment that takes a process that takes that takes workflow that takes all these kind of things that make consistency right and when a company dials that in you see it because they do it all the way from their branded packaging all the way down to their product sizing and goes into packaging and everything is always very very very similar and that's when you start to get that real heavy brand recognition right if you went to this company and you bought sour diesel for instance today and it did it made you feel this way and you thought that's all the best thing ever and you wouldn't bought it again and it didn't you'd be like what why why did i spend you know or just big buds one time little buds another time you're like what am i i got jammed up here somehow i i'm getting screwed right maybe not true but the point is that's a perception right so in production in large volume you know it's about consistency and and equipment automated equipment provides consistency it doesn't provide the best ever but it provides the most consistent product that you can make i mean blueberry strawberries you know potatoes onions garlic it's all done that way right you sure you can go and find really premium quality products from who micro batch things but you're still going to be only this much higher than the guy who's getting it from a really quality product production facility that's doing things all the right way he's just doing a lot of it yeah it's that kind of artisan versus scale and you know i mean the artisans are always going to be there i mean craftsmen are always going to be there you have it in beer you know we have it in coffee we have it and everything so it's not going to be neat it's no different with cannabis it's just it's just the the the the reality is that like a company can still make a very high quality product in a high volume position they just have to be very attentive to every part of the process so that they get the consistency and that's that's what we try and talk about is like you're going to get this more consistent product right you're going to have a higher value point because it's always going to appear to the consumer as if it's exactly the same that's the goal yeah so i mean that's brilliant summary of all the moving parts but do you only kind of service outdoor recreational grows or would you fit into kind of more sort of higher quality if you like the medical sector oh yeah like the biggest companies that we're in are indoor or greenhouse facilities you know we're in a couple in canada they're like a million square feet of canopy it's like you know they're doing 2500 500 pounds a week or a day you know they've got these it's just astounding the amount of cannabis they're throwing through their through their facility so you know it's really just in a company like that it's really interesting to me um you know they have to get all their ducks in a row because if you're going to do let's see you're going to do 100 pounds a day that's a significant amount of cannabis right if you're doing that you need to be planting harvesting nurturing and all these stuff in in the in the in the growing section every day because every day you're going to harvest and then you have to be in the drawing and and then you know what i mean so it's like this facility just goes huge just to get that consistent daily production of x right and that's what's what really becomes amazing is when you see that just the massive volume of production that it requires to be producing at that level it's astounding to see how mature it is in some places and i've been in facilities that like the number of people that work there even though they're they're machine trimming and machine processing they've still got 50 or 60 employees working all day every day running double shifts because there's so much work that has to go into creating this volume of cannabis that's pretty amazing yeah i mean the scale sounds it sounds crazy and i can't really get my head around it but thank you for that if well if you ever decide if you ever get out of this covet thing and you decide to do a little traveling around you hook up with me and i'll tell you where to go and i'll get you into some of the places that you need to see and yeah it's mind-blowing what these guys are doing i would love to do that and i hope that my avid listeners will sponsor me for that trip of course yeah it'd be great i mean and like i said i can get you into some great places you know what's great about it and just a little inside secret the canadian companies can't advertise so they're really really good with people like yourself who come in and can talk about their company for them because they're not allowed to say anything i like to think i provide a service yeah that's right you're providing a free service to them they give you a nice tour take care of you it's where it's a it's a win-win yeah nice exchange so yeah just you know as we kind of come to the end of this bit i'm really interested in comparing cannabis to the non-cannabis world and you know i do think in certain areas of this industry there's people trying to reinvent the wheel how much do you borrow from the kind of established agriculture sector and how much is actually kind of novel and individual to cannabis growing cannabis is as in it's more difficult than other crops etc so it's a big question there that's a great question you know because there is a there is a this is a significantly important question because you know you can take all the pro ess and structure and kind of the control from other industry but you can't take equipment and it's because cannabis requires to be its treatment requires something completely different than anything else and people don't get that they like to bring in equipment from other industry without really evaluating it and it just doesn't work and the reason it doesn't work is because cannabis by itself has no protection it's a bud you you knock the leads off it and that's the product and here is this product that you cannot now once it's at this state the anything you do to it degrades it you know what you know so you you can't wash it you can't run it through another machine you know says all this stuff like like uh fruit fruit gets run like blueberries and strawberries i mean you can google it and look at what a strawberry sorter does or or a blueberry sort or these massive warehouses of machines with all this water running and these little berries going flying everywhere right you can't use water you can't transport cannabis with water you can't transport cannabis you have to transport cannabis in a dry protected state you don't want it to be vibrated you don't want it to be beat up you know there's all these rules around it that just don't apply to anything else as far as commodities go closest thing would be maybe flowers but flowers are picked fresh and then they're shipped fresh and then they arrive and then they blossom right so you're picking them right before they bloom that's maybe the closest thing but they're not tripping it and and manicuring it and then cannabis you trim and manicure in a dry the best ways in a dry state because the plant is then in a stasis or static position but that's everything that we do and everything that we look at is all based on that problem the problem of cannabis being the product being what it is and not having any protective clothing if you will to allow it to be processed heavily so anytime you take heavy-duty equipment i mean you imagine you've seen what combines do well they go right through the field and rip everything up and then spit the wheat out one side right imagine that you can't do that with cannabis man it just doesn't it's not gonna work you're gonna beat the crap out of it you're not gonna get what you want um maybe if you're making oils but i mean even then i don't know that that's the best methodology but the point is the cannabis is the cannabis product is the flour which is the most delicate part of the plant so it needs to be taken care of in this very very attentive fashion and we came after that green bros came after that problem specifically and everything we do is based on that thought process like minimal movement minimal vibration minimal uh agitation you know you have to move it so it has to move somehow you know you you have to get it from place to place so you have to move it how do you do that gently what's the best way to do that without impacting quality and that's one of the primary focuses of what we do when we look at our equipment we think about the the product how do you manage the product even now we're making a grinder you would think i just throw it in a grinder wow you know and there's companies who do that and they have these these weed whip machines and these other machines and they they blast it into a million little pieces and go look it's ground up no that's not the proper way to grind it if you're gonna roll a joint you take a pair of scissors and you cut it into little tiny pieces i mean that's what you do with your with with your boys right i mean hey that's you know you're going to get it out you get out the scissors or a grinder you know when you hand grind it and you check it make sure it's ground just the way you want it you know what i mean so it's even with grinding there's this kind of proper way that it needs to be done and that turns out to be this huge challenge because you you can't just beat the crap out of it man it it makes it bad i love that that's so it's one of the things i love about cannabis is it's you know it's just much more complex than a lot of other things that we deal with you know virtually most and therefore it's a lot more sensitive and it requires a different set of solving skills to to do what you're trying to do which is fantastic and that's really i mean and any connoisseur will tell you the same things you know and so we speak the language that they speak and they understand that and that's why we have such a good reputation within the industry really is because that's what we focus on mass production is always going to have issues with that with product management and that's just how it's going to be but limiting that and reducing that impact just increases quality and who doesn't want that that is the ideal place for us to end this interview which is great and i could have asked you loads more which is which is great too so i'd love to have you back on at some point to talk about the next phase of your development you know i was when we were there this was what was so cool and we know how this is a cultural difference that i thought was really cool so my wife and i were walking and i think we're walking down is it is it the piccadilly square down there and so right off there's this business center and i don't know it must have been must been right after work and there's a little pub on the corner and there must have been 500 people outside the pub all with beer that doesn't happen in the united states right and i'm just like what's going on man this is a big old party no it's what you guys do after work there must be 500 guys standing around one little tiny pub pushing out the beers as fast i can't even imagine where they store all the glasses right but it was so cool to see it was like yeah this is community and and kind of this moment this nobody's being rowdy or crazy or anything like that or it's not weird it's just like this is like oh that everybody meets this pub on this corner and it fills up the whole square and everybody's having a beer together and it's cool like if you do that you know most of the places in the united states you walk out the door with a beer someone's going to tackle you i i mean look it is you and you'll get that on a monday after work as much as a friday i don't know what that says about our nation but it's certainly something we're missing during these crazy very good times so uh so yeah that's a bummer um hopefully you return soon but colin look it's been great chatting to you and that really enjoyable episode actually so i look forward to having you back on in at some point yeah absolutely anytime and like i said if you know if you get the opportunity you know we get the opportunity moving forward here to to get back out in the real world we love having people here obviously vegas is an easy place to get to we love to have people out here i show them off my shop all the time we built a showroom here just because of of covid actually because of the the showrooms or i mean the train shows shutting down so we have that and then of course because of the people we work with i can get you into some really really wonderful places and just to see the and i don't see anybody doing this so it's really funny but just to see the change or the differences between how things are done is pretty impressive i would love that i'm now going to get sign off for my wife for a trip to vegas so let's see how that conversation goes yeah well if you're here you come see us we'll take care of you we'll do cool all the best color all right thank you so much thank you you