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[Music] so good morning everyone I am Katie Daugherty the president and CEO of economic Valley Chamber and thank you for joining us for our weekly chamber connect sponsored by central Maine power before we get started I just wanted to mention this presentation will be recorded and we will email it out to you later this afternoon please put any questions that you might have in the chat box and we will have time for them in the end webinar we are joined by Steve humans the president and CEO of hospitality Maine save as a graduate of the University of Maine he found in humans travel out of his apartment shortly after college and built it to the largest travel agency in Maine with 11 locations and 8 employees he sold a business to triple-a New England in early 2007 and became the Auto club's ep4 branch operations Steve left triple-a in 2013 to become the executive director of Portland downtown district he then became president of both the Maine Restaurant Association and the Maine innkeepers Association in 2016 facilitating a merger in 2018 which became the present organization hospitality Maine Steve and his wife Kathy are now empty nesters living in Falmouth thank you Steve for taking the time this morning to join us through this challenging time affecting the hospitality industry and I'll hand it over to you right well it's my pleasure to be here give me okay I hope and thank you for coming on board yeah we're to start I mean it's been quite a quite an experience you know Katie mentioned it was just about two years ago that we merged the two associations together to become hospitality Maine it was a move when we were originally two separate organizations with two separate boards two separate sets of bylaws funding everything bank accounts the whole thing was separate even though me and the staff were running both we're both employees of each was kind of an interesting couple of years and we put the whole thing together we purposely chose the name hospitality Maine essentially to delineate from what the two organizations were previously because there is a synergy between restaurants and hotels that for many years was thought to be happening but really wasn't the issues were are still different between restaurants and hotels but as the industry itself has maturity main there's a symbiotic relationship between the two I mean restaurants benefit by hotels and vice versa especially in tourist destinations or major cities like Portland and and we the name hospitality Maine doesn't denote like the restaurant and hotel Association or some generic name like there are in other states what it denotes is a sector of the economy and that's really been my key element going forward it's the guiding principle behind the organizations that we we have 1,300 members across the state restaurants from individual diners or small seasonal restaurants on the coast and then in the inland areas to the largest and you know five to start dining across the state and Portland and places like that and same thing with the hotel sector its ins that might have three rooms on up to the biggest hotels in the state and everything in between you know national brands independent properties it's it's an amalgamation of an industry that is very diverse and we don't have holistic views of anything either I mean the spectrum of decision making is amazing to me we have a we have a big board we have two boards actually I should give you a little structure we have a hospitality mean Association is about twenty five board members and then there's the hospitality Maine Educational Foundation which has another twelve a different group and so and as I say the diversity of the industry is reflected in the organization positions we take are well considered we stay within our Lane as I always say which is hospitality try not to blend too far beyond that because of the importance of the industry itself because we represent non-members as well we become during this crisis we've become basically the conduit for the to the administration I'll give you that's sort of the overview of hospitality Maine and of course any questions you come up with I'll be happy to answer so of any nature so keep that in mind as you go as we go forward so the organization is positioned to represent a sector of the economy a couple of years ago actually it was two years ago but more recently last fall I asked the University of Maine to conduct a study to identify what the hospitality industry is in Maine it was a seminal first attempt to really define the sector in a real way and professors ad Crowley and Todd Gabe from you Maine's economic department which is as katie pointed out it's my alma mater I actually sit on the Alumni Association Board as well so I'm well connected it you may or know and so lastly do is study which they did and they identified the industry for the first time and if you look at restaurants and hotels and all the businesses that support and I and I supported by restaurants and hotels it's a it's about a seven and a half billion dollar industry with one in ten employees in the state are employed in hospitality this does not include tourism which is a wider sector that includes retail tractions and things like that as strictly hospitality and and the generation of taxes to the state is about seven six hundred and fifty billion asked million I mean in annual lodging and sales tax receipts for meals and lodging and lodging meals and lodging sorry about that talking through three cups of coffee here so I might be moving a little swiftly trying to slow down so we define the industry represent the sector three months ago as we all know you know we were faced with the cliff basically I will say through February of this year a hospitality industry was tracking for its 14th straight record year of growth we were 10 percent year-over-year up through February from the record year of 2019 which falls every record year since 2009 and then March hit the cliff and we dropped as the governor began to shut down the economy it's much of it started in our industry restaurants hotels and meetings events that continued obviously into April I was last I've been in my office in Augusta I live in Falmouth I've been in my office in Augusta twice since March 15 we operate remotely there's six of us in hospitality Maine as the economy began to shut down I think there was widespread support for the governor's actions you know we were looking at we were looking at you know the pandemic and and we knew we had to shut things down we had to stop the spread all of us believed at that time that this would be a sort of up maybe a 6-week kind of thing or something if you were calling yourself back then you might have thought that as well so we you know we were hoping for you know to begin to restart by mid-april I was asked by the administration to create a phased-in program for restaurants and hotels a plan so I did that we we did it I said collectively with hospitality Maine I say I I guess I wrote it but it went through about eight alliterations through our board we researched you know information from the National Restaurant Association American Hotel and Lodging Association researched ways to operate safely and reopen and we came up with a very aggressive plan that was not going to be easy to operate by any restaurant or hotel regardless of size it was it's serious document because we understand the importance of safety not only to our employees but to draw visitors back I mean in the new world we're facing people aren't going to travel unless they feel safe and we know that in the industry and I met most of all of our members that would say understand that now so we wrote the plan and went to the governor we didn't hear anything back for a few weeks and then finally we got the first governor's checklist which you recall the restaurant checklist came out toward the middle part of May and I was plot pleased to a point that much of what we wrote wasn't it I had gone through the CDC so they had added some other factors but by and large it was pretty much what we have put forth which we were comfortable with doing it involved a four phased approach just like the governor asked for where we stepped up and opened up more of the industry as the period of time went by we did not put in dates because we were asked not to put in dates so we left that out there so it we started you know operating that way or planning to operate waiting for the governor to authorize the ability to reopen restaurants first we built but we built the lodging at the same time the checklist for lodging that came out later a couple weeks later and then the first discussions of quarantines came up this was not part of any discussion at that point we did not include that in the plan our plan was opening phases starting like we do with restaurants six-foot distances 33% occupancy roughly when you do that it falls in different based on the shape of the restaurant but by and large 30 percent occupancy same thing with hotels and inns we proposed a 50% occupancy booked every other room that was what we proposed as a phasing well what ended up coming back was you know the idea of quarantines 14-day quarantine so none of us had seen that before I don't think that was widely in the country for restaurants it was more about you know when they could open and the people have been wanting to open for a long time and of course then the government came out with the what they called the rural plan I guess was a name but that presumes that 13 counties are all rural which they aren't but in nonetheless it came out in 13 counties that they could open first and then they opened for outside dining which was in our plan by the way because I researched that through the NRA National Restaurant Association the other NRA and we knew that outdoor dining was going to be safer and we put that in the plan initially it was part of the basic operational proposal so we were pleased the government opened up that we were really surprised they opened up those 13 counties first because again that was never discussed that was sprung later by I guess the CDC so we opened you know in the 13 counties they don't be exact date off the top of my head but you know we it was in it was in May and and then we were ready to open in the southern three counties June 1 that was the plan and then we were surprised as was everybody four days before that when the governor pulled back and said no we're going to remain outdoor dining now keeping in mind that not everybody can perform outdoor dining I mean I skipped the whole step about takeout and delivery and that sort of thing that has worked out fairly well for a lot of places but the the outdoor dining was a key factor for the southern part of the state and also for you know play other places that had never done this before but many don't even have the room for this they just physically are not in a place where they can do outdoor dining so they was shut out so in southern Maine the uproar was huge about the pull back because many of these restaurants had already ordered all the supplies they food fresh food that type of thing they had call people back from employment and and then with just a few days in advance they had to pull it back and believe me the uproar was significant only through us but directly to the administration and also as you probably have seen in his generated lawsuits and there are multiple lawsuits now against the action of the governor for varieties of reasons and I don't really want to go into those details we're not part of any of those but you know we certainly know what's going on and and it's floored out of frustration and frankly fear of losing everything you know maybe not their health that way but their economic situation their livelihoods at that kind of risk so so today we stir on suisse it with 13 counties open for inside and outside to the restrictions that we first proposed so that's still out there the governor refers to this as phase 2 in southern Maine we we still have a no start date for indoor dining and and we have outdoor availability but there's no end date to this it's so people sit there in limbo so with regard to hotels to give you that perspective you know hotels have been operating they've had the ability to operate since the beginning many of them Hosting essential workers the governor did expand what the definition of that so that include a lot of construction people that are here in the state working you know for CMP or for construction projects that are underway but there are a lot of people staying in hotels that are common positive that were moved out of facilities where there wasn't wrong that happened early on there's less of that now but early on that was the thing so was homeless shelters that were overrun we moved them into many hotels I shouldn't say many several hotels at least in the Portland area I'm aware about I took all those people on you'll know it hasn't been a single case of Colvin infections in any hotel in Maine since it started there's been no incidences of kovin infections in restaurants that I'm aware of that's important because we built around those checklists we reached out to eastern Maine Community College about creating a training programs which is what I wrote initially to the governor when we initiate a plan in April we said we will diff'ent decide we will create education programs to ensure that the industry operates safely around your plan that you lease to us which is exactly what we did so we went to eastern Maine Community College they said wow this is a great opportunity to use our electronic badging program and in total collaboration with them we built what we call the Cova 19 restaurant readiness program launched that a little bit after Memorial Day we've had I think about 2,000 hospitality workers go through that program and pass it because you don't just go through it you know test it at the end and you score 80% or better in order to earn the electronic badge which is a credential value and the community colleges has haven't have a strategy to build on that to toward degree programs but I could go into it but I won't now but it's it's quite interesting actually we we we just launched the lodging readiness program yesterday and we held that we had it written but we were waiting for our hopes that the governor would open up the economy more than what happened yesterday Monday which I'll explain a bit unfortunately we didn't get we wanted but we had to get this program out there so we launched it and we're already getting you know a ton of hotel people taking the class and and that's really the strategy is to is to operate safely and operate really at industry-leading safety levels and I'm serious about that we want Maine to be a national leader in this but the problem is we're stuck because we were last week the decd sent to us a their plan for the replacement the alternative to the quarantine the they have a three-part plan which was announced on Monday but we saw it last Wednesday the two three parts parts two and three involved really more local monitoring and education to allow communities to you know help educate visitors and the public and operations and that sort of thing section two is really about day-trippers and how to handle people coming in the state just to visit for the day and that mostly is the southern part of the state of obvious reasons because you know the traveling distance is further north you need to stay in hotels but it's primarily designed with that but part one is the key thing which is the replacement for the quarantine and what they offered was a testing protocol now this testing concept we have been talking about for a month I I knew this was under consideration we had been communicating back and forth about the practicality of that and when when they released the plan last week we circulated at amongst our membership I don't know if anybody on the call here might have gotten that from us I'm trying to look around at names but you know we we have a pretty big list that we send a daily briefing out to every single day and we've done it since March 1 and so the feedback I asked for feedback and it made no consideration about whether we agreed with it or no I just said listen we need to provide information back to the administration they want it by in 24 hours basically less than that you wanted by noon the next day that I got it so it was really less than 24 hours I got that night 125 responses almost immediately that were incredibly detailed I mean there were a few people saying you know we got to open tomorrow yeah at all cost you know so we knew we'd see some of that we saw a few other people that like no we got to stay safe can't do this very few of those and I'm talking like a handful not even that couple but mostly what we got with people that were talking about the economic devastation that they faced in real terms and I've got some stuff that just I was just reading it I just couldn't even believe it you know the duction business isn't like you know 50% or third it's like 5% that's what's 95% down I mean even more for some places you know and so I can read you some of what they what was said and I sent that to the governor a small sampling remember I got 125 responses it's not single person believe the testing model replacing the quarantine was something that they thought would work on a percent so I reported back to the governor and then Monday when they she announced her thing it was exactly what we saw last week despite the working with industry the comments about collaborating mister net no it was literally what I had seen and so we were very disappointed you know I think problem everybody has tough decisions to make the governor has the toughest of all okay we all know this but that's what the positions about you get to a point in time where the health the health cost and the economic cost merge and that's we're at right now we're at a point now where we've come to a convergence where the two elements are of equal significance and but we're not really thinking enough about the economic aspects and what's going to be left behind and I think that's where I'm going to leave a lot of my presentation you today and I'll welcome questions of course I think the we need to have a better strategy for maintaining this industry and rehabilitating it for many people we know they live in day to day it's hard to look past this we understand that but if the industry is going to succeed presently but also in the long term we have to have operations that are safe that's what people are going to look for if we don't have the opportunity to to do that at the most acute moment that we're at right now we're going to lose a lot of people before they even have the opportunity a lot a lot of some restaurants and hotels already you don't see press releases about people shutting down for good sometimes use these things on Facebook but trust me there are a lot of people that leaving and just given up they just don't have the money they don't want to lose all their life savings but I can see it in front of them or they simply don't want to operate under this restrictions that are being placed on them and we understand that but at some point we've got to give people hope to with the idea that there is a light at the end of the tunnel there is a way to bring things back and until we have the opportunity to reopen ultimately fully but not even that just in phases then we have this this despair that exists out there and it's not a positive feeling and frankly and you know I guess we look to leadership to help get people in that mode we haven't really had that yet the weekly press conferences if you ever watch them are frankly dismal you know serious stuff no doubt but not like motivating or energizing people so I'm it's at a really low point right now so the the opportunity to present to you folks today comes at a time of great urgency and in decision-making that needs to be carefully thought the reason why the testing plan is bad is I'll give you a I could give you multiple examples but I give you one that's pretty straight up we called CBS's in Massachusetts Connecticut New York state yesterday and asked to get a test because we were going on vacation to Maine we got a no that was not a single CBS that would give a test for that the online way to do it says sorry you don't qualify for tests at this time please see your primary care physician that was the response if you call a CVS they tell you we don't do tests for that you need to show symptoms or you have to have a prescription I mean so the proposal from the state is to do this well we don't control out of states and as we all know we've just barely got enough capacity in Maine to serve residents why do we believe that other states are not in the same position is Maine I think it's the same in Massachusetts Connecticut New York pencil New Jersey all the places that we traditionally draw visitors from so it's the Isles the impracticality or I see the lack of testing and then is the ethical question is should we be taking jesting away from people that are sick in other places I mean there's that and then there's the questions around whether anybody would even go about doing that because the test is 150 bucks basically and if you've got a family come up to Manor they're gonna want to spend that kind of money to come to Maine oh they'll go to Cape Cod where they don't have to pick a test or somewhere else so you know there are so many reasons why this doesn't solve the quarantine and you know so maybe people had an issue reaction action this was stepped forward for us in the industry it's a step to nowhere it's basically the same place and so just so you know we offered an alternative we didn't just say oh we can't do that you know come up with something else no we we went and straight-up gave a proposal last week which was basically to do it in New Hampshire Vermont to do it I mean apparently the governor has spoken a lot about working with the governors of New Hampshire and Vermont and crafting the strategies but they're doing things quite a bit of different in both of those states believe me we know minutiae about what's going on there I've talked to my counterparts there but do what I do and what New Hampshire has done and now Vermont is they have a what's called a certificate of compliance and basically people come and they sign a document that says they're safe and they've quarantined or something to that effect the details of which I could share I mean it's it's basically what we propose that Maine do and course that was not what you do so with that I have downloaded a lot of detail to you guys this morning but you know it's a it's the state of play as it stands right now and there are far far more details I could share and there's a lot more this folks on this call as I look around that are quite aware of this as well so I guess Katie I would probably leave at that point now and suggest if anybody has any thoughts questions of course suggestions ideas yeah we do have a couple questions in the in the chat box oh we have one from Scott from Maple Hill thanks Steve for your time today my question is why is the lodging industry being singled out for enforcement by requiring our guests to sign certifications regarding testing upon their arrival the exposure for guests staying in their own rooms would be less than going to restaurants and other or retail stores but only lodging places are required to get testing certifications yeah yeah well you know Scott understands what he's saying and I agree with everything he just said we're talking about turning you know frontline desk clerks entry-level type positions in many places into police people essentially and why as Scott points out and I did earlier the safety in hotels is now widely known across the u.s. it's not like a novel idea you know and I think that it becomes that kind of a question why is that well it's because that's where visitors are going but as I said earlier the southern boiler is a sieve it's Swiss cheese down there there are people entering this state left and right right now that aren't quarantine that aren't signing any documents they're going to you know wherever they can eat and scene or the beaches and all that it's happening it's uncontrollable and yet the hospitality lodging industry is going to be asked to document people staying overnight I don't have the good answer to that question I think it's the right it's it's something we wonder ourselves but unfortunately how lodgings properties are the entry point for a lot of people overnight and that's where the state is pushing their their you know their initiative but you know it's just it's just and again there are some facilities that are really capable of doing this big properties that have a lot of employees even though they don't have many of them working but I worry a lot about the smaller properties execute with HIPAA laws and are questionable I mean there's that we haven't even done we've been talked about the legal problems with this I mean that's what basing a lot of lawsuits there is questions of health care privacy there's questions of First Amendment rights and interstate commerce questions believe me they're all going to come out at some point not a good answer Scott but another question I got sent to me was yesterday it was released that the Prime Minister of Canada and us are extending the border closure until late July what are your thoughts on that with the hospitality industry in fact the way I would answer that as we all know that me the Canadian tourists are critical to the culture here and that's it that's a huge loss it wasn't completely unexpected but still what would mean is just soon think about this for a second maybe this is essentially an island right I mean we had a close Canadian border on on two-and-a-half sides we got the Atlantic Ocean and then we're the only state in America that borders on only one other state fun fact New Hampshire is our entry point and then New Hampshire has more liberal liberals wrong word more advanced movement toward opening their economy yet they also have their employees happier employees work in Massachusetts supposedly a hot zone I could talk to you about hot zone still because that's a somewhat of a misnomer now so it just has one more layer of the urgency Katie I I don't you know not much more I could add to that other than what we all know to be true yeah another question from Alec Rodgers who owns the Quality Inn and main Evergreen Suites Hotel thanks for giving us your time today Stephen for sharing the industry serving the industry sorry do you have some comparative information of kovat my mitigation policies and tourism states who may be well underway in their season and how effective their policies have been both economically and in terms of COBIT stats right Alec good question the publicity is often around places like Georgia and Florida California places that have opened up significantly and the media tends to pick up on negative news around that but it's really the numbers are not what what you might read they're actually trending well in places like that but what I always try to look at our states that are more similar to Maine places that are of a similar size and sort of like makeup of Maine places like Idaho Utah place out west other states like are New England states obviously as well and what I'm seeing it's still early data but Idaho's a good example because it's very similar to Maine in terms of the way it's set up it's a state they have opened up the state pretty much wide and I don't think that their numbers at all I wish I had stats on that if I were to be had for the meeting on a question like that I would give it to you but I we've tried to model a lot of what we did early on about those kind of places Idaho Arkansas Utah and others I looked at those plans and and I think they're achieving success so some of the things that you know it's been hard to argue the public health aspect for obvious reasons you know we want to keep everybody safe you can't defend you can't argue in a way effectively against the state CDC but more recently you know there is scientific data now speaking to things like quarantines and testing and not in a way that it's keeping people safer I think you're gonna see more information about that coming out very soon and very soon here in Maine but I will leave it at that point I guess Upali from KFC who serves a lot of restaurants and hospitality industries you know with our food you know how the governor plans to enforce her new policy of testing well one thing to keep in mind by the way the testing hasn't really launched yet so yeah well the first answer is no we don't the questions are coming in like crazy as I was hopping through this entire three months the governor or the administration I should say makes statement and then we're left with trying to interpret what that was said because there's no detail behind it no it'll come out in a press conference it'll be in a press release or something and then we're in industry a very innovative people right they think about stuff like this so all of a sudden they bring up all the eggs the exceptions and how do we have a list now we're you know that sometimes we can interpret ourselves sometimes we have to go to the state and say we need any answer for this the governor made a sort of an offhanded comment the other day about potentially throwing people in jail if they don't follow what she's put out there which would be unbelievable but the reality is that they don't have the mechanism for enforcement they don't really have staff to do that I don't think they're going to get local public officials to do that we do have the health inspection program across the states we have health inspectors they can go around but you know it's always going to be a I mean we've got 4,500 restaurants in the state and over a thousand hotels we got about I don't know a few dozen inspectors so I think I think the enforcement becomes a real question and if it's selective that's not going to fly very well either so the answer is I don't know and we're waiting for some definitive answers on that point I wouldn't I mean I don't think anybody at the front desk of any hotels would really want to be the enforcer on that rule that's that's a hard one another question is do you hold any optimism first sorry another question popped in so moved Dulli optimism for a broader reopening to out-of-state tourism the summer or is the present plan what we're living for this season that's getting asked a lot from people lately it's partly driven by the depression of what they hear from the state keep it in mind that we're in what's called phase two of their plan which in theory phase three is supposed to start July 1 actually we're pushing earlier by the way we're trying to get a reopening plan to start for the last week of June because that's a big week in Maine from the numbers and lodging it's it's it's significant and so we're hopeful that we might get the first week of last week of June involved but the question about saving the season phase 3 is the next phase I know what I wrote what we submitted and yes we would be open we would be open not to meetings though and weddings and things like that so that's phase 4 there was a lot of discussion over whether that would start sooner than later and believe me there's a lot of heavy lobbying around that especially from the wedding in them and the catering groups so can i you know I'm an optimistic person by Nature you know I think of good things most first anyhow but I don't I'm not the person making the calls you know so what we're gonna do we have I mentioned really is we have more arrows in the quiver yet to deploy and we're getting ready to do that so once we begin to focus hard on the economic aspects of this which we have but not to the degree we're going to my belief is that my hope is that the conveying that in hard terms that we're going to do will move the administration to acquiesce and and allow the opportunity for the industry to you know to execute plan well people come you know that's another question entirely visitors see that you know that's why I said earlier that we need to lead the nation in this type of operation because that's where the sweet spot for me and it's going to be it's always been this way it made if you must I'm a history major from you made you know know Maine history and we are startling history in the 1800s and people came here for the same things they come today for clean air clean water fresh food sea land they came in the 1800s for the same thing we can contemporize that and lead that's my optimistic view right I don't make those calls so we need to get started and prove it so that's what I'm looking to do another question that came in to me is what are your thoughts on the Phase three being both July and August do you think that will hopefully August will get open up sooner or do you think phase three will just stay July I you know what's happened on this to that question remember I said earlier I was asked not to put dates in when I we wrote our thing we was a phase plan that would be on the ground determining dates and then immediately the governor came out with dates we were like you know arbitrary dates literally arbitrary July 1 what is July 1 different from June 22 or July 15 there is no metric that determines a date so you'll notice what happened as they rolled this out and they opened up hotels you might recall earlier they didn't put any end dates so there is no end date they did talk July in August for phase 3 that was the early thing but they removed those dates at our insistence because people booked in advance you know you know the industry if you're in it people are booking the fall now nipple connects you now but if you said this plan was only good for July and August that means you couldn't take reservations beyond August literally that was the way it was written and there was nothing the industry was off the cliff after Jill August 31 and so we told them this and they've been adjusted in man it was like okay we're gonna be in July one and it's forever so there's no cutoff to that now having said that that's not helpful I mean obviously we expect to reopen more as we go forward and there's a lot of hope that things will become more open for the Fall let's say Labor Day and beyond again I don't call the shots I don't wave the wands you know but I would say that I'm telling when mothers are the bride call me up I mean I get these calls they find my email and next thing I know I've got some a woman telling me I've got my daughter getting married in September we want to have that wedding can we do it I mean I try to tell them give them hope I say don't don't cancel anything because we don't know yet and just and I think a lot of the hotels are being relaxing their penalties or anything like that in order to keep that opportunity out there so I would say that you know we're gonna open more the economy more the hospitality economy and when that occurs I'm not sure but we're working to accelerate that that's I guess the only way I could answer that yeah it is strange that you know phase 3 July in August is 50 people max for events and then all of a sudden September you can just do whatever so it's it's hard that there's no other gradual increase in that kind of stuff another question is thank you for your time today I am from the Finance Authority of Maine can you comment if the lending gap or need from the hospitality community that are currently not being met well I this stage of our discussion I don't want to bore you too much with the funding models although uh the fame they would not be buoyed by this trust me but but from the standpoint of the PPP the paycheck protection program which was the lifeline for many many businesses and frankly we got to thank senator Susan Collins for that she launched it but when they launched it they anticipated a short of duration and that people would not go on unemployment but it would instead remain employed by being under the program which we've paid employees first the problem was the same time the federal government put in enhanced unemployment insurance $600 additional every week which was a which was an inhibitor for bringing people back to work and it still is so no and no no no disrespect to anybody I mean I if I was employee I'd do that too because it's a great opportunity to make more money but not work but it but it's kind of productive against the PPP that's the problem people are running out of money with that PBP because the initial plan was eight weeks now you know we're extending it out and there's a lot day but a lot of people used up their money and there's more work in Washington around extending that too and also other SBA programs that are lending programs most of the lending and most of the grant facilities have come out of Washington I suppose fame could be speak more specifically about the involvement here in Maine but the banks have made have mostly been originating loans that are federally government related as going back and that sort of thing whether it not I don't know famous involvement of this but I will tell you that we're gonna need a lot more money I mean we're gonna have to reclaim and restore this industry and that's part of our longer-term view now is like the cares Act has more money built in and going forward we think more that can be applied to our industry and we're looking at ways to see that happen but the need people don't want to take on more debt that's one of the biggest problems to by the way is that there are people that don't want to take on more debt and they will close because they can't do that we're already leveraged these are small businesses that don't have a lot of bank accounts so you know that becomes a problem grants are going to be what's needed funding that is emergency related Rogers has another question and maybe he's throwing on his is chair of the chamber board hat with this one what can we do as individual business owners or corporately as a Chamber of Commerce or other industry groups to help change the present policy position on testing important to you so that is an excellent and it is top of mind right now I can't go into real detail right now about some plans that were working on but one of the things to do we need to do is to make a great big a coalition I know there were a lot of chambers working hard to move the governor and I'm too a KBC CI you know I'm sure I do know of other chambers that are restive down in Penobscot Bay and up in Bar Harbor or gun quit Kennebunkport the voices are frankly unfortunately not really being heard and we get hurt but as I pointed out today it's not like we're effectual around this you know I think the answer is going to be a broader coalition of business oriented entities that can speak as a single voice and I think we've come to a point where we can speak as a single voice I mean there's a wide Divini opinions like I said earlier you know doubt but running associations as I do as Katie does or chairing committees like words like Alec does you know we know that what our members are facing and but we need to get more leverage and so I think what you're going to see you know Dana Kahn has called me when when I just as I was going on because I've talked him at length about this and I will when I get off the call because we think that we can bring a broader group together and for more effect so to your point Alec I would just say that you're on target and look for more soon so I don't see any other questions in the chat box does anybody else have some last-minute questions I don't see anything so thank you Steve for your time this morning I think you for all you're doing for the hospitality industry of Maine tourism is a huge impacted a lot of money that comes into our economy in the state and it's important to hear on the hospitality side of stuff thank you everybody thank you for joining us today please check out our website for any information and resources for your business during this time please let us know if the chamber can do anything for you guys thank you again to our sponsor for CMP and hope you guys all have a great day thanks