Sign Nevada Banking Permission Slip Myself

Industry sign banking connecticut permission slip mobile

[Music] this is the brave new coin crypto conversation hosted by andy pickering hi everyone andy pickering here i'm your host and welcome to the crypto conversation a brave new coin podcast where we talk to the people building the future in the bitcoin blockchain and cryptocurrency space today's podcast is brought to you by leverage a new fully featured decentralized futures exchange without compromise are you ready to trade the future of crypto today well leverage is a dex so you can trade with your keys and sign orders just with one click and leverage is fast yes indeed leverage is powered by gluon a new layer 2 solution with the scalability and speed of a centralized exchange and the low super low fees of adex yes leverage the new exchange that combines the best features of c5 and d5 so you can trade crypto spot or crypto derivatives with up to 100x leverage while maintaining control of your assets at all times it's like william gibson said the future is already here but in this case it's evenly distributed and completely decentralized go to leverage dot i o and leverage the spell l e v e r j dot io and trade the future of crypto today yeah boy my guests today are michael wagner and pablo quiroga from a multi-chain ventures michael is the founder and ceo and pablo is the ceo hey welcome to the show gentlemen hey great to be here andy thanks so much to start with guys i reckon let's get a little bit of background from you both maybe if you could just uh introduce yourselves just give us the the super condensed version of i guess your life story your career path and how you guys ended up in blockchain michael let's start with you yeah great um so my formal background is in the traditional finance financial space it is i'm a cfa charterholder i started primarily on the buy side investment and securities analysis for private wealth management ultimately went on to manage portfolios but perhaps the more interesting aspect of my background is is really just kind of this entrepreneurial flair that i've carried throughout my life uh kind of going back to my early days i remember having ventures back on the on the schoolyard playground if you will uh all the way back to the elementary school days um that's persisted throughout my life and has been carried through my experience in the in the cryptocurrency space got introduced to bitcoin in 2013 um and my entry point was really through gpu mining uh various altcoins and and getting exposed to um the alternative markets that existed in in uh altcoins um fully immersed myself in crypto it's you know as you know very uh exciting and innovative field to be involved in and um so just try to be involved in as many different evolutions of the industry as i could um you know that continued on through cloud mining participating in ieos icos nft marketplaces and then ultimately going on to launch uh launch my first company in the space which was the tokes platform in 2016 and then just recently launching an additional company that's called star atlas fantastic and i'm really looking forward to really digging into what you guys are doing with tokes and also star atlas and so we'll get to that during the course of the show uh but over to you pablo please uh introduce yourself yeah thank you i won't go all the way back to my mother's room or anything like that i will keep it keep it short here but you know the past uh seven or eight years i i started off right after my undergrad i i've always wanted to live in peru that's where my family's from it's where i was born but i grew up in the states um so i got the chance and i jumped on a plane and i went out there i was working for a um a private equity firm that was based out of greenwich connecticut and my focus was really in aggregating and compiling small to medium-sized mayan projects at the visibility stage all the way to um operational uh so i i spent a good enough time there for about four years um and then from there i kind of stepped into launching my own sort of uh tech uh ventures and startups um you know failed hit the wall a couple times and then had a nice little uh success um after that success though uh you know something um to the tune of the cannabis industry was exposed to me and i had the opportunity to be a part of a really really cool company called vanguard scientific systems um i was part of their their leadership team um you know i was about like number five in the company we grew it out to 40. had a really really interesting exponential growth um we you know we went from having clients in the us in canada to then being located and having clients in over eight countries all over the world um focused on integrating um hardware and software um and also manufacturing extraction equipment so um just you know really had a good time understanding the not only the supply chain um but more importantly the the global network that's being uh created and built right now so i saw firsthand on a lot of the challenges that the different uh parts of the supply chain had to overcome and in some cases are still um you know having to to face on a day-to-day basis in regards to the business operations you know i i've i've known michael for for many years now well since 2015 and and have seen him and his team grow um and i'm very very uh excited to be a part of multichain ventures and also star atlas um you know we we are we are building something that uh uh is is definitely going to impact um how how we build new economies in the digital world so yeah excited fantastic well as i understand it multi-chain adventures is a parent company uh that touches on uh some of the sectors that you guys have hinted at just in your introductions uh you know the cannabis industry uh supply chain all that good stuff but let's just understand a little bit about what multicam what multi-chain ventures is so michael you are the founder and ceo uh what what's the idea with multi-chain yeah so i mean multi-chain ventures has been a real labor of love uh so as i mentioned in the intro uh launching the first company in 2016 uh under the you know the the banner the title of the tokes platform uh multi-chain ventures is now really the next evolution of toke's platform um as we were going through the development process uh we ended up creating a number of kind of tangential services um and so that's where you get into things like supply chain visibility uh which is an entity that we call epsis decentralized network and we're using that primarily within the cannabis industry to deliver things like seed to sale tracking and visibility on movement of product from point of origin all the way down to the consumer level you know as the listeners may be aware cannabis is a highly regulated industry and as such that traceability on the product needs to be reported on a regular basis so they can ensure that there's no leakage of product into black markets so multi-chain ventures consists of really four different entities that is the tokes platform uh it is cubed it is eden and then this other kind of carve out spin-off that we created called really cloud less relevant for the conversation today but it's essentially the result of uh back-end devops and cloud hosting management architecture that we created for our own applications our primary focus at multi-chain ventures today is um you know specifically related to cannabis through the tox platform deployment and you can think of it largely as decentralized financial infrastructure so you know when we started assessing the capabilities or really pulling from our background and knowledge of what bitcoin and cryptocurrencies um the the technology solutions that that could provide to the world and also some background and experience in the cannabis industry we saw a really nice pairing some nice synergy by being able to to merge those two industries and provide uh these decentralized payment solutions custody compliance and visibility to the legal cannabis industry now for anyone who's not aware uh we are based in the united states and within the u.s cannabis is still a schedule one narcotic which is to say it's fully federal illegal with no apparent medicinal uses that's at the federal level now uh at the state level we have something like 35 states that have legalized cannabis either recreational so for personal consumption or or medically for people that have ailments that can be treated through the consumption of either cbd or thc and because of this disparity many of the the cannabis operators are unable to get access to traditional financial infrastructure so largely they can't store cash at bank accounts and they don't have access to things like electronic payments via credit card and debit card now you know once again considering what is possible through the decentralized economy forming through bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies and blockchain in general we are essentially able to provide a tool set to the cannabis industry built on blockchain in a fully decentralized manner um that that resolves that problem that they're facing that's right because i as i understand it and obviously i i don't live in the us but yeah it does really sound like the existing cannabis legislation in the us is well a little bit of a mess i guess and you know that's one of the problems with the states because the united states is so different and the laws are different from state to state but you know i've heard these horror stories about you know various cannabis dispensaries and they can't get banking services from the banks because effectively because of the legal situation and so then you get into this uh problem where you're effectively forced to run a cash business which of course you know presents all sorts of problems and makes yourself a real target doesn't it yeah i mean it absolutely does and in fact um we put out a mini documentary back in 2017 and we we interviewed a number of operators and legislators in the state of nevada as well as local law enforcement and you know the resounding message was uh exactly what you said these these businesses became immediate targets and in fact uh one of the interviewees made the direct comment that the that the local criminals were actually excited about you know legalized cannabis because it it they knew that it would lead to um significant cash uh storage right on-site cash storage in vaults and so you know those are those are the big targets those are the guys they wanted to go after and they knew that it was all 100 cash so you know you're absolutely right the the disparity in legalization uh between federal and state has led to a number of challenges for these businesses and you know in our eyes in reality these are completely legitimate in legal businesses and i you know unfortunately the scrutiny that they're under uh from a federal standpoint just causes so many problems and that's you know that's where we saw the opportunity to come in and help and provide a solution and do so in a you know semi-disruptive or completely disruptive fashion with technology and pablo i understand that you guys have been working hard in nevada with a pilot program i believe it's called assembly assemblybill466 that obviously doesn't mean too much to me so maybe uh just dig into to what you guys are doing in nevada what's the pilot program all about and what are the problems you're trying to solve here yeah absolutely it's it's exciting it's an exciting time globally uh when it comes to decentralized finances and you know the digital uh um approach uh to systems and so um the assembly bill 466 uh it creates a pilot program and legal framework within um which legal cannabis entities and supporting businesses along uh the supply chain um can eliminate the necessity for transacting exclusively in cl in cash um and and there we're enabling this through a blockchain based financial technology uh services that we provide um so you know this this has uh been a really long time coming uh you know we were in an early participant in in round table discussions uh with this legislator in in the state of nevada uh which ultimately culminated in in the ab466 proposal um so yeah you know michael and and in the team um we've all been working really really hard and on the ground and on the foot a lot of meetings a lot of presentations um you know taking the the proper process uh in due diligence so that we do bring a quality product and service uh for the state of nevada yeah andy and you know i really just uh i don't want the effort to be downplayed here uh these roundtable discussions took place over the course of 2018 and we got an invite uh through a couple of local legislators as well as candidates um specifically candidate for treasurer at the time zach conan he did end up going on to win that election and he is now the state treasurer but uh at the time the proposal was you know what is an alternative payment solution or or you know banking solution for the industry and so uh the team and i were at these discussions we were discussing blockchain how the technology works how it could benefit the industry and um you know that ultimately went on to lead uh legislative efforts over the course of 2019 where this bill ab466 assembly bill 466 was was initially proposed um you know once again the team and i were on the ground um sitting through these hearings speaking to legislators giving testimony and performing other educational events in the nevada state legislator legislature to describe the benefits of the technology so through these meetings with over 40 politicians in the state we were able to get unanimous support the bill passed both the floor and the house unanimously and was was effectuated at the end of 2019. now the pilot program itself was supposed to go into uh effect in 2020 but obviously 2020 was not a great year for anybody and there were some delays in in that process due to covet 19 but quite proud to say that uh we finally got this the the final sign off on this at the end of 2020 and the program will be going live now um in the towards the end of the first quarter of 2021 well that is really exciting to hear then so tell me what that means in terms of uh you know action on the ground so what is what does the pilot program look like once it is up and running uh later on this year what do you expect to happen and how does it work for the participants so you know the the system itself is not overly complicated um partially because we hit you know we have this deep experience and background in facilitating um this this form of financial infrastructure but uh we are essentially rolling this out um with the intention of just getting uh as much early adoption as possible and so you know the economic terms are extremely favorable essentially we're giving the participants uh six months for free to access the system but uh once they go through an initial compliance check kyc process aml process that we have in place and they get onboarded into our technology what that does is creates a digital wallet for them on our platform from that point we work with our cash transportation services in nevada to go and pick up cash from the front end you know cash receivers which by and large are the dispensaries and i do want to point out here that this is going to be a multi-phase rollout um with with the intention of delivering simplicity initially and so we're not disrupting or changing anything about the payment process between the consumer and the business at first uh consumers will continue to go in and spend cash with the dispensaries it's at that point that we go pick up the cash we do a reconciliation we conduct all of the underlying uh necessary compliance and then we are able to deposit that cash into a bank facility that we have access to um in direct relationship with with the state of nevada from there we essentially use a uh just a mint and burn process to create a fully collateralized stable coin uh and so for you know every dollar that gets deposited into the bank the participant now has stable currency that they can spend with other participants throughout the ecosystem and this is not just strictly cannabis operators we the service will be extended out to landlords out to payroll companies which by the way in many cases employees al o need to be paid in cash and so you know that's that's a lot of friction just for the employee to have to figure out how to deposit funds into their own bank account um after the fact so payroll services where employees can be essentially paid indirectly through the stablecoin uh going out to utility companies that we're forming relationships with here in the state of nevada it's nv energy or at least down in las vegas it's nv energy so having them accept these funds and probably most importantly the nevada state treasurer office uh themselves will be accepting this for tax remittance um you know the idea is that we can eliminate the cash deposit friction for the operators get these funds somewhere farther down the supply chain such as you know uh the the tax department or utility company where they have no friction in redeeming that cash with us which just is a you know simple redemption process we destroy or burn the digital token the stable asset and uh and then we're able to ach or wire out funds to the entity that issued the redemption order so that you know that by and large is really the first phase of this where we see you know the bigger opportunity going into the future is taking the next step in enabling uh consumer payments in this uh digital currency to the business uh so working with our partners at fault logic which is a smart atm company wherein the consumers can actually go and purchase the digital currency store it in a mobile wallet and then spend it with these businesses and then one additional step from there would be including the addition of the entire universe of various digital currencies that exist out there so whether this is bitcoin or our own currency tokes which is you know the underlying uh ecosystem token throughout all of our products uh we permit the consumers then to purchase those assets spend those assets use talks for things like loyalty and rewards points and you know other benefits across the ecosystem and you know ultimately expanding out the adoption of the the blockchain community and ecosystem at large but we need an entry point we need a way to demonstrate the potential of this technology and we see that by delivering this more immediate simplified solution absolutely fascinating and how would you guys characterize i suppose the existing uh cannabis industry in the us what what is their uh you know are they open to these new blockchain solutions are they crypto friendly like i don't know if you guys are aware of i think her name is bitcoinmom on crypto twitter and i know she has a a cannabis uh a business somewhere but she's a she's a big bitcoiner but in general what what is the uh industry's uh approach to blockchain i can tell you we have had many conversations over the years with uh with different operators about adopting bitcoin or cryptocurrencies and there's always been a high degree of skepticism or reticence to actually adopt it uh one because there's really you know a lack of understanding of how it all works but two there's there's this underlying concern that if they use an alternative form of payment that it will somehow compromise their business licenses you know these are these are privileged licenses it's not easy to secure a cannabis operator license and so the last thing you want to do is spend millions of dollars obtaining it and then have it um you know get get uh pulled from you because you're you know you're trying to solve a problem right and so um one of the benefits again with ab466 is that we actually have the full support of the state behind us in delivering this solution and pablo what do you think yeah i would i would add to that that um you know from a state level first you know in the united states it's so fragmented you know every every state has a different approach really when it comes to the municipalities and how all the uh various public entities um work uh together or sometimes lack of working together but uh you know just to kind of give an example in in in massachusetts um you know one of the one of the public sector entities there you know they they're very bullish on better understanding uh the the the the exact uh processing uh um mechanisms and trying to picking up data points from a processing facility uh for all of their license holders in the state um and they're you know they're reaching out to various you know manufacturers of equipment or processing facilities um operation managers to to find out if there's any sort of uh you know mechanisms or systems that are automated in tracking processing data right so there's an appetite for uh you know more understanding of the of each um cannabis company through numbers through data and i think that's a great starting point because um one of the most amazing things i think about digital currency and and digital financial structures is that uh that's the easy part you know the the hard part sometimes is having really good teams working on very specific use cases that could have long-term implications on moving an industry forward that's the heavy part right and and i think we've we've done a lot of that work now it's all about adoption so um you know there's a there's a mental ship uh shift happening in the um cannabis operator um and and there's a lot of more appetite for for you know digitizing uh their operations and so i think although in the past um you know some of the cannabis operators haven't been too uh keen on on on utilizing uh you know a a data center uh strategy and you know track and traceability and this sort of thing but you know after covet um the a lot of different industries have just leaped forward about five years you know six years some 10 years and so in cannabis um 2021 is a big year for technology the technology sector within uh the space uh you know track and trace is is very very um bullish a lot of operators are getting prepared uh for you know legalization in in the future um and so there's going to be a lot more uh i guess weight on quality you know in in various components of the supply chain and then there's also going to be um a lot more just uh you know want to provide a better experience not only internally within the company regardless of their finances but also with their partners and then ultimately with the customer the customer today is not the same that it was yesterday yesterday they want to pick out dollars right out of their wallet and have that little piece of paper and transact it today they're paying with with with uh digital wallets you know that are the biggest brands out there um and in in a lot more are looking towards the future which is cryptocurrency so um utilizing that uh that hardware that we all carry in our pockets all day um i think that's going to push this forward fantastic and maybe just to finish off on on cannabis if we look at things from a kind of big picture perspective love to get some thoughts from you both you know traditionally i guess the united states has always been pushing this narrative of the war on drugs right and and that has never been uh particularly successful because for good or bad humans just seem to be interested in changing their consciousness and uh they'll do that uh whether uh there are laws in place or not but there does seem to be a shift happening and this is not just in the us but but around the world and i i believe it's is that the state of oregon that effectively decriminalized not just cannabis but but most drugs including you know harder drugs like heroin and methamphetamine and and so on so i understand that's just one state but um what do you expect to happen in the next uh you know four years or so and are things different with with you know the democrats uh now back in power you know i guess biden is definitely a a moderate wouldn't expect him to to make too much moves on on this front but um yeah what do you guys think you know i i think for for me if we all just travel to 80 000 feet uh you know the the the main thing that comes to mind is mental health or just health in general you know just health in general um the world uh world health organization i think nominated uh burnout employee burnout as a uh global uh pandemic um and you know there's there's i think you know statistically reported there's like over 300 million uh people out there i'm sure there's way more um you know that that are suffering from mental health for example so you know what how are we going to approach uh this problem that is uh being experienced globally that was before covet that was before covet um you know the the the experience for many people last year um has has probably caused that number to to kick up a little bit and so um you know what uh what are we doing in regards as a collective society to address uh this mental health uh situation and so that's why you know we are seeing uh a big wave coming in even through uh the psychedelic uh you know assisted psychotherapy um approach um companies you know out of germany out of england uh um in the united states uh and out of canada um they're now you know approaching this this phase and and so um you know the decriminalization of um various uh uh entheogens um is is happening now you know so it's a really exciting time um cannabis has has definitely paved the way uh you know to for for a lot of these other uh um um um but uh yeah i think i think uh just kind of getting a little esoteric here i think you know looking at the bigger picture of um of mental health in general um is is very it is on top of minds of a lot of governments and so that approach and that's current situation um is definitely you know uh being being talked about um around the senate for example you know earlier this year we had a turn here in the in the united states uh where i think georgia was was kind of like the the hot spot you know and and um there was a u.s senate revamp uh where where the democratic party had some really good victories in georgia um and so it gave the democrats i think like 50 seats along with the vp kamala harris um holding the the tie breaking vote uh so yeah i think this is a a great year for for for cannabis and in the world in general um to come back and and kind of look at the things that matter right i think we could also get you know pretty deep down into the rabbit hole of conspiracy theory around the war on drugs itself but you know it's it's fairly unanimously agreed on at this point i believe that the war on drugs was a failure pablo actually also has a tremendous amount of experience just in the psychedelic space and before we recruited him over to multi-chain he co-founded a company that provided telehealth services for ketamine-assisted psychotherapy as well as other psychedelic assisted psychotherapies so i think if we look back over time society has almost always had these ritualistic tribal experiences related to uh to psychedelics and our connection to you know the universe or to something deeper and so you know i fully fully support um the decriminalization efforts i so and then beyond that uh i also just wanted to touch on you know what progression progression in legalization looks like not only for the united states but globally uh because first and foremost we fully support it right i mean we're not trying to monetize this uh this lack of access that the cannabis industry had we were looking to provide a service by using a tool set that in and of itself was revolutionary and that is blockchain and bitcoin and cryptocurrencies but one of the questions that we often get from people are well what happens to your business model you know when cannabis does become legal and to be perfectly frank i have absolutely no concerns does it does it in you know reduce uh our competitive advantage maybe slightly but ultimately we are extremely bullish on the adoption of things like crypto payment processing digital asset custody i mean we are seeing you know we're seeing now publicly traded companies uh adopt bitcoin on a scale that i don't think anybody could have imagined we just broke 55 000 on bitcoin today um so we we are super bullish on the potential for crypto going into the future and then not only that the the additional tool sets that we're going to be able to provide so uh looking at being able to create a a platform wherein businesses can not only accept crypto as a form of payment they can trade these cryptocurrencies and they can actually earn yield through things like decentralized finance directly through our platform these are all uh aspects of the model that can't be replicated right now in centralized finance and so fully support the legalization movement of cannabis i think we are still going to crush it out there with the platform that we've built and again just super bullish for crypto in general great great to hear yeah i mean i i think it is uh well it's great to hear that you guys are are in full support of uh the decriminalization movement and and i think it's just that is simply the the way that the world is heading and that is such a good thing and you know it's funny how just uh maybe two years ago when you know elon musk first went on joe rogan and he smoked had a puff on a spliff with rogan and you know the the outcry that that caused but of course you know rogan is another one who's always been a a big proponent of i guess psychedelics as a tool for for human growth really and and for for mental health so yeah great to hear that you guys are really deep in that space as well and in some ways that kind of explains where we're heading i guess with star atlas uh if we're really talking about mind expansion uh out into the universe right so i guess that's uh that's quite a nice intro let's dive into the the sci-fi world of star atlas where do we start what is star at the skies yeah star atlas is uh really fun it's a project that we conceptualized over the course of 2020 really towards the end of the year just seeing a lot you know this trend and development and progress in decentralized finance for one but also in the nft space non-fungible tokens and then also our deep passion for gaming and so star atlas is a metaverse concept uh that exists within this grand strategy game of space exploration territory control political conquest um and we will be building this out as a triple a title so a game that would be attractive to the mainstream audience the mainstream gamer of which there are more than 2.7 billion people globally that play games almost daily um and you know it's going to be fully 3d enabled and vr enabled upon launch so we're building it out with the latest game technology we're coupling that with all of the financial incentives of blockchain so nft marketplaces true self-sovereign asset ownership of your game assets staking yield generation in-game and really delivering this play to earn experience wherein players are actually able to monetize the time that they spend in a video game and then surrounding all of that is this metaverse concept and you know metaverse is essentially a virtual chat room if you will regardless of whether or not these players actually want to engage in the other elements of the video game concept they can use this universe as a virtual chat room to participate in things like digital concerts right in vr or viewing art galleries that are hosted by the actual artists themselves where they can sell their digital art in-game uh virtual meeting places you know and otherwise uh exposure to elements and experiences that would otherwise be inaccessible to them so really fun super excited to be building this out we'll be having the the initial game experience delivered in july with really long tail on development on it it's quite a complex and uh big ambitious project to undertake but super excited about it yeah it's uh it is really exciting to see uh a couple couple of different trends here there's obviously what's happening with the the nfts um and there's all these different metaverses being built out certainly in the blockchain space but of course you know the big uh bad existing ones that are incredibly powerful and popular and often built on the unreal engine so i'm thinking of course of fortnight and you talked about you know in-game concerts uh fortnite have done some huge in-game concerts with people like travis s ott and marshmallow how how do we how do we see this kind of all uh integrating and interacting you know when when will fortnight start to uh dabble and i guess you know nfts like in-game nfts that can be transferred in and out of fortnight uh and you know paying and different cryptocurrencies do you think that's on the cards i know that there are there are groups that we're even working with that are looking to deliver the blockchain experience to a traditional game developer we think that we have once again a nice competitive advantage in that we have this deep experience in working on web 3 and and crypto projects you know over the past eight years we also have great game development experience but what's nice about building out blockchain games is that you don't necessarily have to worry about isolating and segregating yourself it's really more about openness and when people ask us you know why does a game have to be built on blockchain you can really think of blockchain being this underlying mesh that allows game assets to transcend a single game universe which is to say that whether or not a player you know once a once a player owns an asset in our ecosystem they were able to take that out of our ecosystem and as long as another game developer recognizes that asset then it can be imported into a new game ecosystem and vice versa you know so we're already working on partnerships um not necessarily with traditional game developers but with other blockchain game developers that would allow our our user base to co-mingle and co-exist and so it's really more about one going out attracting this mainstream audience creating a really enjoyable gaming experience but pulling those people into blockchain exposing them to things like d5 and cryptocurrencies and then allowing all of the game developers to rise together so i would say that that's part of our bigger vision yeah interoperability is is is the name of the game you know um i think bob marley said it best he he he named one love right if we go off of that uh we we just talked about psychedelics uh well you know mycelium network you know it's it's one of the oldest things on on the planet it transfers information from one source to another it holds information i believe blockchain is the mycelium of technology you know and so uh these ecosystems that today are independent and you know one is like ethereum the other is this and the other one is that and solana you know we're all going to be uh communicating and wanting to to build and play and have fun you know and and so what's exciting about all this is just how fun it is like it literally you know i've never uh looked at finances with a smile and and and through blockchain and cryptocurrency it just makes it really fun um i don't you know i it's you know i i think i think we're we're in this really really big mental state and paradigm shifting uh phase in in in all of our development so just really excited star atlas um you know is uh is a place where you can dream and and at the same time have a lot of fun fantastic and i love the mycelium analogy that is brilliant hey let's go to a very quick break and then we'll come back and we'll finish off with the crypto conversation hot day ground are you ready to trade the future of crypto today introducing leverage a full-featured decentralized futures exchange without compromise leverage is a dix trade with your keys and sign with one click leverage is fast it's powered by gluon a layered tooth solution with the scalability and speed of a centralized exchange and the low fees of dex say goodbye to exchange hacks front running ethereum network congestion and high gas fees leverage the new exchange that combines the best features of c5 and d5 so you can trade crypto's spot and derivatives with up to 100x leverage while maintaining control of your assets at all times like william gibson said the future is already here but in this case it's evenly distributed and completely decentralized go to www.l-e-v-e-r-j.io trade the future of crypto today for crypto indices and benchmarking brave new coins powerful indexing engine can calculate high frequency intraday and end of day indices for a wide range of index products brave new coins custom indices team delivers experienced consultancy premium data and trusted calculation contact bnc today to find out more all right we're back and i'm with michael and pablo from multi-chain adventures and guys look i like to finish each podcast with a really quick round of rapid fire crypto conversation hot takes it's always a bit of fun especially when we've got two people on the show are you up for it let's go for it let's do it let's begin where do you guys sit on the bitcoin maximalist to multi-coin opportunist spectra yeah i don't believe in bitcoin maximalism myself i think ultimately bitcoin really is the thing without bitcoin none of this could exist however i am strongly of the opinion that a broader ecosystem more opportunities more diversity has really done nothing more than attract a much bigger audience um to the space so uh not a bitcoin maximalist but i do not think that anything is more powerful or more innovative than bitcoin very nice i i completely agree and pablo make it easy i second it out yeah very nice very nice okay well chaps what would you say is your firmest conviction crypto opinion well i believe that the metaverse concept will uh come to rule all i love it yeah pablo yeah if you want to be free think kripka oh very nice very nice all right here's the curveball for you chaps ubi as a potential fix for ai induced automation or you know the the wealth inequality crisis is this a good idea i'm all for experimenting um i think it's it's worth a shot i think that we need to bring society as a whole we need to uplift society together as a whole i think the disparity and and uh you know wealth and income gap is just getting larger i don't think that it creates for a beneficial society overall i think if everyone has more resources everyone's happier we're going to lead a much more productive and uh fulfilling life nice yeah michael i mean you know the the sun the sun should so the sun should shine for everyone you know um our our approach uh in in everything that we do every single day should should be one where we're thinking of a collective you know um we we always just tend to think about me me me i i um and i think if we just took a second to breathe and think of others sometimes you know before us just have a better day very nice very nice thoughts all right chaps well william gibson the sci-fi author he said that the future is already here it's just not evenly distributed can you guys think of an example of the future being here right now but most people just aren't really aware of it well man i think we just live in it every single day it is blockchain it is cryptocurrency it is the future without a doubt and you know the world is not necessarily in tune to it just yet but they will be yeah it's star atlas fantastic all right let's it's time to get a little bit weird let's zoom out what do you guys see is the long-term future for the human race do you see dystopia or utopia oh that's that's a tough one i think we're currently on the path towards dystopia i think that unless unless we change uh uh our our way of life dystopia is the ultimate future i think that utopia is possible you know the efficiencies in the progress and technology are exponential if we use that technology for the good of everyone and you know this goes kind of back to the previous question if we do that if we help everyone succeed if it's not stepping on someone else's throat to get ahead then we can attain utopia very nice pueblo anything to add yeah i mean it used to be what is it uh plane trains and automobiles yeah you know today it's uh spaceships uh you know or rockets spaceships and boring tunnels you know we we we tend as a human civilization uh you know uh where where we have some rock stars we have some rock stars on the planet you know um people doing some really amazing things uh and and i don't know i'm uh i have a positive outlook to the world um you know put on some reagan music and i'll you know i'll be smiling you know and feel like everything's good then you turn on the tv and it's like oh my gosh right what's going on um but either way i think that again if we if we kind of just fix ourselves inside you know work on work on our mental health or our health in general we'll be able to be better people we'll be able to to love more to those around us um and and that will also uh overlap and and be embedded in our company dnas and things that we do every single day with other people you know so we we do have we do have everything in us uh for for us to really manifest uh what we dream very nice thoughts from you both all right let's finish this off i'll be interested to hear what you guys have got to say for this one because i can tell that you're obviously both sci-fi guys but the question i close out every podcast with is and finally what is your favorite science fiction book film show or universe yeah i'm gonna have to go with neuromancer on this one i love the cyberpunk theme and uh great book yes indeed an absolute william gibson classic of the genre well it basically invented the genre didn't it yeah uh i'm gonna go with fifth element nice look both great answers i think that's the first time anyone's ever gone for fifth element but man what a great film that was just absolutely over the top yeah like you know just the the music you know uh costumes yeah it was the art that yeah it's kind of poppy you know it's yeah yeah you know you got you you know the the the pop brands are in there um you know you can you can always go for a good uh bruce bruce willis you know um i got this sort of look um the characters are are great um and i don't know i i think it's it's a fun movie it's a fun movie in space you know although it's super dark and scary you know sometimes you have some fun bruce willis gary oldman directed by luke basson and miller miller djovovic as well i think so yeah an absolute classic 90s sci-fi bonanza all right hey this has been a lot of fun talking to you guys today thank you so much for coming on the show let's close it out if you both just want to uh give give your closing thoughts tell people where they can go if they want to learn more about what you guys are doing with the tocs platform and the gaming universe that you guys are building at multi-chain with star atlas where should people go closing thoughts michael yeah well this was a really great chat i appreciate the the conversation andy and uh just just for people to get in touch with us you know obviously we're on all the social media channels our website for multi-chain ventures is multi-chain dot adventures uh website for star atlas is star atlas.com and you can find me on twitter uh it's at underscore m wagner fantastic thank you michael pablo take us out you know we have the opportunity here to really really change the world around us and one approach is through technology so we're happy to do that and and and have some fun while doing it um yeah if you want to find us on online just you know search for our our twitter handles we're very active on there uh we're also stepping into some clubhouse rooms so if you want to uh join join the fun you can ping me in on my twitter channel at pablo i quiroga that's p-a-b-l-o i-q-u-i-r-o-g-a fantastic all right thank you gentlemen all the best love to do this again sometime soon and i'll be uh watching your progress uh with enthusiasm all the best and bye for now bye andy thank you i really hope you did enjoy today's episode and if you did please do subscribe to the crypto conversation in whatever podcast app you are using but for now that is us we are out of here see you next time see you real soon this was the crypto conversation for brave a new see coin [Music] you