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[Music] for the weekend in March 5th 2023. my name is Eric stromquist and if you're looking for cutting edge control news you can use including sales and marketing and you're in the right place the name of this episode is nothing happens until the sale is made and we're going to do a deep dive into this topic with an industry expert who's going to teach us how to be successful in today's competitive HVAC and smart building controls Market before we get into our guest let's follow up on a couple of things from last week's show if you saw the show I was concerned about the fact that we as an industry and one of the greatest Industries for anyone who wants to reduce the carbon footprint of buildings and make the planet more sustainable in fact we pay well we train well we offer great opportunities for advancement sounds like a younger person's dream job to me right we're not attracting the younger generation the way other Industries do so my call to action last week was to create a mastermind group of Industry professionals see if we could understand how to up our cool game if you will and compete with Silicon Valley and other Industries for this younger talent I had a couple of the younger people spotted right away and I'm looking forward to getting more people that would like to be involved I'm kind of thinking of maybe every couple of months a mastermind group via Zoom if you'd like to be part of this email me at controltranshotline gmail.com and as part of trying to understand what kind of what kind of social media works for this group of tech savvy younger people I mentioned last week I would be opening a tick tock account which I did and as a teacher of mine used to say anything worth doing is worth doing poorly at least at first so I got the poorly part down but I learned a couple of things I found out that there's tons of tick tock videos on how to do things like for example program a Honeywell thermostat to a bunch of them and most of them had over 300 000 views there were tons of how-to videos on all kind of mechanical stuff and technical things and there were even some on Smart buildings not from our vendors but just from concerned citizens these all had two three four hundred thousand views so these are not done by companies like I said but they're but they're done by people that are interested in their products which I found really fascinating so one of the ideas might be to find someone with a huge Tick Tock following and pay them to be your brand ambassador my guess is it would be cheaper more effective than doing it yourself and speaking of doing it yourself I don't think I see my wife Anna who is a younger and has a podcast and does a lot on Tick Tock uh laughs so hard is when she saw my first Tick Tock video better remember right off the bat the part about doing it poorly at least at first so pick up my pride and asked her what I needed to do better and and uh Anna gave me some pretty good advice the first piece being that you have to get their attention right off the bat she said my intro was way too long in other words in the first three to four seconds if you don't capture their attention right off the bat they're gonna go to the next the next video you pretty much have to say hey if you have this problem here's how you fix it I think that's really good advice for all kinds of marketing communication getting their attention off the bat when talk a lot more about that later but he was a big one you always hold your phone above above your face to get a more flattering angle otherwise your wife will look at you like mine didn't go my gosh I didn't realize you were so old the final thing was you got to get your tags right you have to tag your videos in a way they can be found find other videos that are doing well see what tags they're using in titles and use those and his final suggestion was watch a lot of videos study what works made a lot of sense so it got me thinking a lot about sales this week and to begin with we're all in sales whether we realize it or not sales is nothing but a process in which we ask for something we want everything is sales and when you look at sales as a process then like all process processes it can be approved on and if you can improve your process you can change and learn and adapt if you don't you'll get the same things my guess this week is going to give us some great tips on how to improve our sales processes to me when it comes to sales people they're basically two types there's hunters and farmers and occasionally gets one that does both for the most part they're one or the other 100 goes out they love finding business they love the hunt as the name implies they're great cold callers they're Relentless they're aggressive Farmers on the other hand would rather get hit in the head with a two by four then have to go out and make cold calls farmers are great at growing a business once the relationship has been established I think most of our sales rep in our Industries being more technical are like farmers get them in an account if they're good they'll grow your account social media is taking on the role of hunters so if you do the social media right it's a lot less expensive than hiring a salesperson and you can get huge bang for the buck if you got the right strategy the problem is that very few people get it right so whether you hire a hunter to go out and grow your business or spend money on social media uh both strategies have the same big hurdle which is access people don't have time anywhere they don't have time to see you they don't have to look at your content so no matter how good your Hunter is if they can't get in to see a potential customer they're locked out just like you can create the greatest videos podcasts and content on the planet but if no one sees it or knows where to find it you're locked out and that's where control Trends can help control Trends has been posting content for over 15 years we've built a large I say large compared to other sites in our industry and loyal Farm uh following it's Global being seen or heard on control Trends gives you access so think about it control Trends is open for business among other services the site will be at the open for advertisement and sponsorships I'm in the process of redesigning our website working with some really good designers and I want to optimize it for reputable companies that want to advertise be they manufacturers Distributors contracts or Consulting Engineers the new design should be about ready in about seven or eight weeks and I'm really pumped up about it I think it's going to look really good but in the meantime as I mentioned on last week's show control Trends is offering an immediate opportunity to get access and that's to run a commercial on this show our first sponsor is a leader and an innovator I want to tell you who it is you go yeah it makes sense he would do that so before I bring my guest on let's have a quick word from our first sponsor Cochrane Supply cochlear supply has been serving customers since 1965. in fact I believe they might have been the first Honeywell distributor in the country but I was just getting in the business I had the pleasure of meeting Don Cochran senior I was quite a gentleman great individual very knowledgeable and since then I've got to know and work with both Scott and Don Jr and so when I think a conference Supply I think of really good people who work hard they're aggressive they innovate Cochran provides great products and services and training they've got a great training site and Cochran hosting this 2023 controls chronic in Detroit Michigan April 27th and 28th yeah I've been to him in the past I'm going to be to this year's show too and I can tell you if you're building automation controls and we'll see what is next gotta be there please to offer our first commercial on the new control talk how [Music] so if you'd like to sponsor a show just click on the link and the show notes to get the details and now for our guests okay I don't care how good a product you have I don't care how great your customer support is until the sale is made nothing happens I got to tell you I've been in sales my entire life when I spot somebody some good in sales I'm gonna bring them on the show and share them with the control Trends Community because I think sales is maybe a dying art at least the way people like my next guest do it who uh to me is one of the consummate sales people out there my guest this week is Joe Chandler I asked Joe what his title is look at me goes stupid question I'm in sales Joe's with Brody Precision Joe thanks for coming to this show and taking a few minutes to speak with us thank you I really appreciate you having me on well it's great to have you brother walk me through your journey plenty I got in trouble growing up for selling candy at school with buying it you know the convenience store and then come back in and sell it to the kids at my school you know I graduated high school and I went right into electronic sales two weeks after I was graduated high school from that point you know outside of a stint at a deli that was what I was doing uh when I started at Brody though I actually started in the uh the warehouse uh worked my way through from Warehouse to delivery calendar and ups and eventually just was able to get out on the road brother you and I have that in common same same sort of route for me working in the warehouse in the Summers and then working to counter in the getting out I couldn't wait to get out on the road and I think that's one of the things that probably was true for you too when you first got on the road what was that like for you so it was yeah get no HVAC and I didn't know controls um my my thing was is to kind of show up you know really in the cold calling world I actually started with guys at the counter and it would be you know just engaging them before I was actually an official outside sales guy but I got paid commission it was just engaging people and um you know the the big thing with sales I think and that you can't teach that part of it is like the Curiosity right you can't teach enthusiasm you can't teach curiosity but people show up at the counter and you help them out find out what else they do and let them know you do stuff too and that's that's where it goes so you you know who well who gets to make that decision at your company and that you know if you're if you're doing that naturally before you're compensated it it's not a hard transition once you do get compensated to go well this isn't bad either you know I would look for you know reasons a guy would order a part well then I'd go deliver it instead of shipping it and that gave me reason to be in front of them and Brilliant those hustle points get you somewhere I think people appreciate that it's the touch that is kind of got lost in in the sales over the last bunch of years I know when I got started and probably when you did too you could drop me in any town in America and within 15 minutes I would know where the hospital was the local school board the local University and the manufacturing plants were and back in those days I mean I could walk in any hospital around you know I just go through the back door I'd see a maintenance guy you know look first thing I just see with the thermostat's on the wall they had a Johnson thermostat somebody said what do you guys well you know I'm here to talk about the Johnson stuff oh you need to see so and so and there you go but but if you did that now they'd probably shoot you so so you know getting access is really really tough these days but but how do you get around that you right now you've got a lot of access because you know a lot of people you've been doing it for a while but if you were just starting out now how would you be getting access to clients we as a uh as a distributor we are no no end users at all so that is all contractors the fortunate part I guess with Brody at this point in 2023 is where we're certainly a known entity within our Marketplace you know if you're doing specifically building automation you you know of us or you you deal with us but more of that especially when you're young is how do you get more out of the guys that are you know using you only for that one piece where you can grow past that and those value touch points are where I think sales guys can really really show what they're worth but I've got an inside sales guy and everybody at Brody every outside guy has their own inside guy so when I'm on the road which is a lot or I'm just in the in the you know in these conversations with people there's a guy back there that my customers they can reach out to they can get their quotes get their licensing do all those things but he's a guy that I'm trying to Mentor into getting into the outside role set up some meetings and let me go with you you have been with me I've brought them in as the inside guy and this isn't my customer kind of it's our customer okay they rely on you as much as they rely on me maybe more because it's a day-to-day thing you have seen me in front of people I want you to take that lead role and let me hang back and just watch you do what you do but you're not alone you're not on an island where you're you're worried what happens if I don't know what happens if they ask me something that is beyond my ability to reconcile having a mentor within the industry is I think there are ways to set guys up for success and that would be one that I would say if you could do it you're a young guy don't think like you're on your own and I tell my contractors that young sales people that they hire and I'll call them and say bring me in you don't have to do this by yourself you know how do you structure a conversation in such a way that your customer sees what you're trying to get to and the value that you might bring you know oddly in sales I have done zero power points in oh 17. never done one yes right never done one yeah good for you like how do you do that I said because if you're having conversations with people who want you to help them solve a problem they don't want you to present to them they want you to get to know them um when I leave ahr has just happened and I you know obviously you were there and you come back and you know when the customer is saying what did you learn because I didn't get to go you've it's great that's why I'm walking around I'm their Advocate I see this and I see that I go I know you well enough I know your business I know how you go to market and when I come to you with an idea you know that I know that so that idea must be worth something to you if I'm going to present it Joe I want to repeat what you just said you know I am your Advocate and I think if if more sales reps adopted that philosophy so I think when you can develop that sort of a relationship with a customer like you obviously do it's a huge difference and and I think what I'm hearing in that too Joe is that's really the probably the most important part of your job right it's a combat advocate so they think of you as part of their team not as some guy trying to sell them stuff I got a lot of Joe chandlerisms that I pushed out there I want to hear them I tell them first of all your job is a sales how do I help you win more work right and that's something that you now hear the Brody people talk about our job is to help you win work our job is to not sell you Parts every interaction does not need to lead to a transaction so many sales people get up in this idea that we had a conversation hey I I helped you with that thing now where's my purchase order interactions will lead to transactions just not every one of them needs to so you you've got to have that mindset of I don't need to monetize every time I talk to somebody because it's happened to me right Eric it's happened to you when you get a call from whatever vendor is trying to make their quarterly numbers and they start calling you and it's every week and then it's every other day and then it's ever you know and every day at some point if you know that that's the only reason why they're calling you don't even want to take the call right why aren't you calling me when nothing is going on and you just want to talk and you want to figure out how my business is doing how do I get how do I do things better um so those little things if you can figure out how to to not monetize it and realize that your hard work will pay off it just doesn't have to pay off today where it gets difficult starting out or they say Hey Joe go we need you to go find 10 new customers how how would you do that how would you go about approaching let's just say all of a sudden one of the Defenders calls up and says Hey Joe this company over here is using your competitor we want you to go in and and win that account the good part is is that we're building automation right so widgets are widget my widget probably does what yours does or vice versa so where where we try to you know in the Brody world we differentiate ourselves is showing that you know once again we're not there just for this transaction right we're not there just to win this thing but it's also showing differences of why you might want to look in a different direction right and I said you know it has to work for both of us if you're going to come to me as a vendor and say you know what I have I have a mstp VAV controller well I don't need that I've got those and I've got enough of them so do you differentiate yourself on the hardware side do you differentiate yourself with the way you go to market do you solve a problem for me that I can't currently solve that's what I want to know and if that's the case I want to be that same for my customers it's okay you've got a place where you can buy stuff so you had taught me this years ago Eric and I'll never forget when we sat at one of those conferences and sitting at a table and you explained to me you're like when you go into a new customer and you say who are you currently using and don't mention it doesn't matter who and you'll say I've heard great things about them tell me what you like right and what the customer does at that point is tell you everything that matters to them whether or not you're trying to sell them something you think should matter you listen for what does matter because whatever that's going to come out of their mouth in their complement of their that you know of their current supplier is something that for whatever reason matters to them and you check a box right that's what I start doing my mentally I say all right if can I do this can I do this can I do this anything they could do better that you know you think is you know should be kind of what part of your business needs and then they're going to name things that basically the other guy can't do I love it dude I just want to recap a little bit so you know what Joe's basically talking about if somebody's using another brand rookie rookie mistake but you see veterans make it all the time right so they go we use brand to actually go well Brand X we're better than Brand X because of bomb bomb so you immediately put them in a defensive mode I mean think about it if your wife or spouse or a friend starts criticizing you that was a stupid thing to do human nature we're going to defend it so by saying hey I've heard great things about them tell me about tell me tell me what you like about them first of all you're rewarding them you're going to feel more comfortable with you right and then you know they're going to start liking you because you know Joe the first thing with sales is you got to establish a rapport but this is a report about something that has to do with them and what I would tell the youngsters out there is is don't be afraid if the guy says we absolutely love them and you just go hey look here's the second part who's your who's your backup who's your number two could I could could I point for your number two could it be your backup vendor they go back up vendor why do we need a backup vendor this is where you go well look you know I mean I know this is a great company but even great companies sometimes people go on strike or they have problems or whatever or you can't get something in the middle of the night and I can tell you one thing about our company is if you have a problem I don't handle that brand but my brand you know we can get it for you we can knock it out and then they'll go well that makes sense yeah you could be my number two vendor and then you say this is this is this is the Joe Chandler special I think you said well cool well listen if we're going to be your backup variable frequency drive then let's get one in let's get one order one I'll come and do the training for the guys and so on and so forth well wait a minute I told you we love ABB they're great no understand that but if you all of a sudden can't get a drive and you have a catastrophe do you really want your guys um you know trying to figure out a new Drive in the middle of the night let's let's do that and then hey here's your worst case scenario right I'm just using ABB and Honeywell for example because I I've done this before your worst case example you bring your ABB rep in and he sees your Honeywell Drive sitting on in in your storage room and maybe you're going to get better pricing now maybe it won't take you so much for granted so you you can't lose here right that's that's actually good I I will use that you know it's funny I always tell people what my my thing is is I want give me a chance yeah yeah if you give me a chance to service you and it doesn't work out that's not your problem that's my problem I didn't do enough for you when I'm given that opportunity more times than not somebody's gonna say we see a difference here there is something that you guys do as a company you do as my sales guy your inside guy does that really separates you from what I've been used to because you don't know what you don't know right you don't know what you don't have because you think everybody's the same until people love to buy but they do not they do not like to be sold anything nobody goes oh man I went and this guy or girl sold me something but we don't brag about that we like to brag about buying so when I would go in for example to try and cold call somebody and go well he doesn't talk to sales people said well neither do I of course they help people buy stuff but I'm not a sales person I don't blame him right so so I mean but but it is a subtle distinction it sounds like Joe you do it naturally it really is about how can I be of service let me earn your business it seems like you just naturally do that yeah and I mean some of that obviously comes over time right you get comfortable being in your own skin and in those environments where you've seen different ways people approach it you've had those very hard people who won't buy into anything and they're they're you know they they're combating you and you're like you know this is going to be a long day but in general people don't like to change right so they're very uncomfortable with something new like there's a book over my shoulder called The Challenger sale and that's one of very few sales books that I ever recommend reading so many people default to well my relationship guy that's how you build sales is all about relationships and and one of my isms you know it's not about relationships it's it's about the value you bring to a relationship right Eric I mean like you and I have a good relationship but if I wanted to come sell you something right there'd be a better be value behind it otherwise you're going to go Joe this is cool but I I already do that right I don't need your stuff I got my own stuff so right you know the Challenger sale talks about that idea of your your best sales guys are going to be the guys that will actually push the customers even when it's uncomfortable for both it's not just taking that transaction and going I'm satisfied with what you gave me last year this year in the last few years I've had all these LED lighting sales LED lighting what am I literally fixtures light bulbs you know in in in in the millions of dollars and why well are we already in the building and you're staring at something else it's on offer it modulates which is what a valve does or an actuator does right yeah that's what offer it modulates so what's the difference in a light bulb but you're there and they trust you so ask the question hey what's going on with these lights I'm going to control them anyway yeah well Joe I I say you've got people that will build a relationship like you mentioned you know the Challenger saying they're different sort of Role Models I say that a sale doesn't really happen until somebody says no or I'm not interested okay that's when you guys like you and me go to work it's not that we push them or whatever but we do ask that next question the three most powerful words that I've ever used they're more than three actually now is when somebody says you know I'm not really interested or whatever we're really happy with somebody else I'm just curious what would have to happen for you to make a change and feel good about it because if you think about what we really do you've done it all through this interview it's about the questions you ask people are like warp speed Google machines you ask somebody not to think of a blue elephant they have to think of a blue elephant to not think of a blue elephant but I I would say that and I'll throw this out to you try it see what you think but next time you're under objection what would have to happen for you to try one of these and feel good about it you got to add the good part about it uh so so that's one but you know if you think about what we really do what people ask what do you do I help people make good decisions that's my job my reputation is more important than any sale that I could maintain but I'm not here to sell you anything I'm here to help you buy if it makes sense for you but to do that we have to be honest with each other right and I'm going to ask you questions so we can discover whether it makes sense or not and if it's not going to be a good decision for you hey let's shake hands and I'll go down the road but at the end of this presentation if I'm going to ask you if it makes sense if it makes sense I'm going to ask you to do something about it I want a yes or no to me a yes no or equal because if they say no it absolutely doesn't work for me then that's cool I can go look someplace else what I don't want to have happen is well send me you know if you're not interested I don't want to be wasting your time in my time do you feel that way or do you have a different philosophy yeah some of that I mean you know it's funny my thing with sales I always say is for me especially the way that we operate because building automation is not or shouldn't be transactional right don't don't treat that as transactional it's not I got to sell you a car and I may never see you again that's a transaction that happens once so I tell people the sale happens at the time in which the customer decides I will give you a chance to start using it my biggest customers you know Brody's biggest customers date back 10 or 12 years but it was the moment in which they decided they were buying from somebody right they're not a brand new company never existed we just weren't their primary but the moment that they said I'll give you a chance that's when the sale started yes transactions have happened all that time since and the ability to introduce the next technology way to go to market those things are the additional selling that goes along the way but look if somebody's doing uh Schneider building automation right which we have you know and they're buying directly from Schneider well the chances of you switching that over is slim but that's not the only thing they buy okay they still need these other things true or false sales people are born not made I think that there are I think that they are made but you you can but there is some natural talent to that ceiling I think that that there is a difference between the level at which somebody can achieve and that that requires making of somebody they have a natural ceiling that somebody has to or themselves have to try to figure out where that is my guess is you probably read every sales book and get your hands on uh you talk to people that are good at sales you study people that are good at sales I mean to me it's a craft right I mean it's an absolute craft and and as you know it can get down to the words you use and and I think to be successful in the sales game you have to be a lifelong student of sales and of human nature and of your products and you have to have tremendous Integrity because you know I've studied with hypnosis and stuff like this and you know they could get you to do anything but if you don't have integrity people sense that and you might get a sale once but that's all you're going to get so yeah we're playing the long game right like I said it's it's it's not about transactions transactional sales get you so far but I would say that persistence is the number one thing and have an Integrity one to help people I think if you are persistent you have integrity you're trying to help them you will eventually win I think if you understand some basic sales techniques and how to frame things like you know you're talking about it just speeds the process up but if you don't have that other thing about I'm genuinely trying to help you and people can sense can't sense that you might get in the door but you're not staying very long so outside of the Challenger sales other sales books you might recommend for our audience good to Great is another very good book and my favorite right now is the three-minute rule which I I have literally handed that book to people recommended it and the three-minute rule is basically how do you sell the best parts of it Whatever It Is so you can keep an audience engaged well listen how do people find you uh brodyprecision.com ask for the The Godfather of sales up there how does that work no I mean you know the way that we're broken down you know if somebody wants to talk sales and uh and the owner of our company doesn't mind me spending time doing that day or night that then yeah you can reach out to Brody um I got you know obviously I have email which is Jay Chandler brodyprecision.com okay we do this again I would love like I said I've made a commitment to my audience not to go too long on these interviews but can we do another interview maybe in a month or so sure uh that's Joe Chandler from Brody Precision definitely check him out Joe thank you so much I appreciate it thank you Eric all right there you have it that's another week on control talk now the smart buildings video passing podcast a very very special thanks to Joe Chandler from Brody Precision great job Joe so we'll see you next week until then remember be bold stay in control stay relevant and it's Hunter Thompson used to say buy the ticket take the ride [Music] [Applause] better get it right now [Music]