Automating sales in legal agreements

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so today we're gonna do a quick a very quick run-through on I just want to define what the heck is document automation and document assembly software what does it do what are the benefits why isn't everybody doing it and of course if it were easy everybody would be doing it and hopefully answer some questions you might have about how this whole thing works so skip the introduction I'm barren partner with affinity consulting as previously mentioned and I am an automation geek and I've been doing that for a very long time 22 years now anyway let's let's to frame this discussion let's talk about how people draft documents so the most popular way by a long shot in law firms and legal departments worldwide is to find an existing document that's pretty close to the next one you need save it as a new file name and start making changes to it and I get that that's better than starting from a blank page you would obviously want to capitalize on your content you've already created but there are a host of issues with this particular approach and here the here are the problems number one it relies on somebody's memory it's either your memory or a support staff persons memory and our memories fail us as we all know unless you're just you know a photographic memory genius and I'm not so you know a lot of times I can't find the document that I'd like to start with even though I'm absolutely certain that I drafted it previously or I can't find the provision I need you know this this happens and a lot of times if a lawyer simply gathers information and hands it off to a support staff person they don't even know how that whole process plays out and if the support staff person isn't there to handle it then they simply can't generate documents another thing that's very common is you left something out that wasn't in the original document obviously if I open up some old document and start making changes to it there's nothing in there to remind me to add stuff that isn't there already so that's a problem that can often bite you even more common is to leave something in that doesn't belong and I think anybody that reviews documents on a regular basis certainly you routinely come across provisions that seemingly have nothing to do with the particular case or document that you're reviewing and now that those are almost always leave ins that were left there by accident there's also you know you do the search and replace and you did the heshes and the hem hers but you forgot the his her and you left in an incorrect pronoun or you left in a party name or you left in some reference to the prior document that you started with and it can be embarrassing and some sometimes substantive then depending on your practice area the worst part of this is that potentially the document you started with could have been negotiated with posing counsel so you know if it's a real estate document of any kind or a settlement agreement or I mean you name it probably it was traded back and forth with opposing counsel and you had to make some compromises to that document to reach a point that everybody was willing to sign it and unless you can remember every single little thing you made it's really hard to take that document back to neutral so you know there's a bunch of little compromises that were made and all of those could be landmines for your client and you might not be able to find all of them so just fundamentally you know this this whole approach has some obvious problems with it and I just this is just I teach a lot of continuing legal education and I was speaking for a law school in Alabama and they are they offer CLE at this particular law school and this was the contract that I signed they I wasn't allowed to smoke drink and all of my musicians sing or another personnel had to we're covering a tire because the lewd and sexually explicit uniforms they all were looking forward to wearing week we couldn't wear it was really sad but you know these are the kind of things where they obviously didn't even care probably that as CLE has nothing to do with musicians and singers in most cases I would assume but they left it in anyway and it just seemed kind of sad really but if you keep doing this and you keep starting with old documents and create new ones from it you're going to have little like all the words that you see highlighted here and letters they're the words are spelled correctly but they're the wrong words and so your spell checker is perfectly happy with that it's the documents wrong and then sometimes folks that the dictate will tell me that they're immune to this problem because they dictate but I find that most people who dictate actually read documents into the voice recorder so to the extent you're reading old documents into the voice recorder then you're subject to the same limitations what is the first great leap forward from that you know so this is really the first take away stop using old documents and recycling them and just as an aside I get emailed documents all the time that are absolute train wrecks because they have been recycled and recycled and recycled and reused and reused and copied and pasted and converted and converted for years sometimes decades and if you had a way to look I oddly enough just today I got a I got a Word document it was a construction loan agreement a hundred and eighteen pages long a construction loan agreement and they're having terrible problems with it and they couldn't figure out what was wrong and like I could easily tell it was using a feature that hasn't been present in word since 2003 so so in and the document was probably even older than that the document was probably from around 2000 or earlier so you know it's easily could have been 18 years old and 19 years old and it's been used and used and used so it was no wonder like they said we just can't we have to use this as a template but it's the formatting simply doesn't work we can't get it to do anything we want and it's always a nightmare what's wrong well one of the things that was wrong is that they've been reused for 19 years and and who knows what had been copied and pasted into it there's pieces and parts that didn't make any sense the paragraph numbering didn't work it started over randomly it switched formats there was all sorts of errors right that's what happens so the idea of a gold standard is to create this one thing that you go back to every time that you update and keep current and which is set up correctly from a word perspective so that it responds correctly to formatting in this particular screenshot you see what I liked about the way this firm did this is they added a lot of narrative into the document they explained every single provision had a little commentary above it that said here's when you use this here's what you need to be thinking about and this went on for a you know this is like a 20 page template and this is just one little screenshot of page 1 but to give you an idea I'm going to open one up here and hang on of course it opened up on my other screen let me drag it over there we go see if we can get word to stay here ok so on this one obviously an aunt an official agreement and they they consistently identified changeable text and they identified optional text now they didn't say like when would I use this obviously I could tell by reading this when you would use this but there's a lot of stuff in here that you not you know this I'm going to use this or I'm going to use this but to use this template I got to delete the stuff I don't need and then I got to fill in the blanks and they set it up so you could just do a search and replace and this frankly is way better than recycling an old aunt a nuptial agreement and if they come up with new language that they want to add to it then they can come back and they've got one place to add it to and then everybody benefits from that it's not just the last thing that you did so once you get to this once you get a gold standard once you build something where you've consistently identified changeable texts you've identified logical inclusions or exclusions and you've set it up correctly from a word perspective if you just do that you're you're gonna massively increase the efficiency of your drafting process within the firm and you're also gonna increase your accuracy okay and you and at that point you've spent no money you spend some time and maybe you had to get some help on how to get word to do exactly what you want and this you know that's a whole separate seminar and I'm a word I'm a Zen master of Microsoft Word there are a few of us out there but you can get word to do exactly what you want every single time no matter what if the document is set up correctly then when you edit the document it will respond appropriately to what you're doing you in so you'll never go sideways on you you'll never go why is it doing this again is it seem like it's possessed why is the language or why is the formatting doing this crazy thing that I do only I didn't even do it it's doing it on its own and sometimes where it'll do that if the document is set up incorrectly so all that is solvable I just want to put that out there once you get to a gold standard template now there's a whole bunch of other things you can do number one there are features built into word that will allow you to this is really gonna be annoying it keeps opening it on I have three monitors and of course it's bringing it on the one that I can't readily get to so this one I'm if I click right here this is just word okay so this is a template and if I click on this you can see it opens up into a multiple choice so if I hit resignation now I'm going to hit the tab key on my keyboard watch this word in the title and this word in the first paragraph and hopefully you just saw them switch to the word resignation and separation so Sarah II a Smith tab this one prefix will get all of them in the entire document mrs. Smith tab this one pronoun will get all of them in the entire document tab vice-president effective 8 1 2019 she was a faculty member and she had 30 hours of crude vacation documents all filled out mrs. Smith for herself and her heirs every little word change that had to occur because this was a what did I choose a resignation agreement and not a separation agreement and not a termination agree on one of the other kinds and now you can just make any further edits to it that you need to make and because it's set up correctly from a word perspective if I had a paragraph guess what the numbering works perfectly the spacing is perfect the formatting is perfect and it all just works so that's just built into word you know word has a lot of capabilities that would allow you if you're doing simple things like filling in blanks and doing simple word changes it's quite good at that so what's your starting point for any word processor automation you got to have a gold standard first so you got to get that done before you can do any of these other nice things let's say you have a case management program they all have every single one I've ever looked at has some method by which it can pull the client data you've piled into the program directly into documents so that you don't have to retype that stuff so some of it is very basic it can only fill in the blanks and some of it is is sophisticated and can do lists and logical inclusions and fill in the blanks and sometimes even calculate things so this is just a screenshot of cleo which is a very popular case management program web-based and of course it has the ability to generate documents as you would expect so if you have a case management program and you're not taking advantage of that particular functionality that is just another low-hanging fruit easy thing you could do but what you know I'm feeding the data into what a gold standard so I got to have something to deposit this client information into and that something needs to be a gold standard again I can't do this unless I have the first thing and then there's subscription drafting systems where you can pay X dollars a month and you get a set of templates typically there's an interview involved you answer the questions and it generates documents wealth Docs is a very popular document automation system for estate planning lawyers that works in all 50 states in the US so you just tell it what state you're in and it produces documents compliant with your jurisdiction you pay some dollar amount per year and you get this crazy list of templates the drawback of a subscription drafting system is it isn't your language so you're gonna have to just accept that because if use if you generate documents really really fast with this new system you subscribe to and you hate the way it phrases everything so you go in and spend a lot of time tweaking the language and messing with stuff then you're you're giving back the value proposition you were paying for in the first place in other words you're spending more time when the idea was to spend less so that's if our clients who have ultimately decided that subscription drafting systems just wouldn't work for them most of them decided that not based on cost but based upon the fact that they just couldn't tolerate the language because wasn't theirs so if you have documents you like and you want to keep using them and you just want to do them faster better more accurately then you might want to consider the subject of seminar webinar which is to add on to Microsoft Word document assembly software ok so what this does so it's your it comes with no forms at all that's the first point first takeaway is document assembly software provides you with no content at all you have to provide the content what it allows you to do is generate your documents using your language much much faster than you could ever done it before so I find this as a little confusing to explain but let me just show you a couple of options so the first thing I want to show you is a program called hot Docs now they have two versions of hot docs their new version that just came out is web-based so you create your templates on the desktop and the desktop software but then you upload them to what's called hot docs advanced and then you assemble them inside a browser and then when you're done you get a little download and you can download the document you just assembled this is the desktop software which you can still get but of course everybody is moving to the web because they want you to have to pay for it every month no matter what and that's the easiest way to get that get you to do that so that's what everyone everyone is going that way anyway so if I click in this particular firm if I click assemble then it's going to open up an interview screen and the interview screen is what you create with the software it doesn't come with a bunch of questions there these are the questions you're already asking and answering in your head whenever you generate a particular kind of document so if I hit OK it's gonna say you know kind of clang - I have an unmarried man an unmarried woman or a married couple and then if I say it's a married couple then you know who's gonna be the Grand Tour and then I can you know I can answer first middle last gender this would handle same-sex couples of course and I work through each one of these little items that you see over here is another set of questions so so to make you not suffer while I type all these answers I'm just gonna pile in a set of answers that I did earlier so you can just see how this kind of thing works so you know I the next thing is the address and then I get to you know are there any kids and if I say yes then it's going to ask for the kids now one of the things that document automation software allows you to do is gather lists of things which is super important when it comes to legal documents because we almost always have multiple parties you know you got grand tours and grantees I got beneficiaries and trustees and executor 's testator's etc so it doesn't have to ask me how many kids I have I just simply enter the as long as I click add another it'll keep taking more kids so I enter the kids I enter another kid I enter another kid it knows in this case that I have three daughters who are all adults over the age of eighteen it knows they're the female male thing gets all the personal pronouns correctly this is going to include the kid in my definition and children and my wife session definite children automatically unless I said it was my wife's kid in which kid in case I would have a chance to pull that stepchild into my definition of children but the point here is the whole interview is dynamic and it changes based upon how you answer questions so you don't see questions which are not relevant to the fact pattern you've established so if I said I was an unmarried person it's not gonna ask me questions about the marital fund because there isn't one so it's intelligent it's an intelligent dynamic interview and however many branches to the decision tree exist in your head you this is the codification of that so if I go to the general trust information it could be a restatement or it could be a new trust what are the tax provisions you can see you know if I've got each one of these little multiple-choice or yes no questions and you can see if I say allow tax paying fiduciary to recover taxes I say no to questions disappear if I say yes then for that provision to be included in the document I have to answer these two additional questions which have just appeared so the questions are whatever the questions need to be when you get to the end you hit go and it's going to generate a document that it's completely customized to the fact pattern that you just fed it and it's a completely editable document so this is plain word no little fields no hidden little weird things I need to warn you about if I go to the end of a paragraph and I hit a hard return of course I get a paragraph number if I hit a tab I get a sub sub sub shift tab back to the top you know this just works you can edit you can edit it however you want and it'll look beautiful now here's an important thing to note if I go back to the interview and I shut down the interview it's going to ask me if I want to save the answers to the questions and you will always say yes to that because you've got other documents to do for the same client so if I decided I wanted to do the will next then I'd hit assemble and when the interview pops up it's going to ask me the first question it pops up is it says do you want to use an existing answer set and I say yep I'm going to use my test answers and I click OK and now it already knows all my name I am i wife's name and I got to say is who's the testator I am and then I go down to general will information it's going to be a pour over to the trust it already knows about include an interim clause will say no go on to the tangible personal property all these questions are pre answered the executor will be the spouse alone and I'll do one sole executor after that and make it my daughter and then we'll go to the Guardians and we'll say soul and soul and I'll pick Alexis to be the guardian and the execution information I can answer whatever I know about this I go to the end of interview and I hit go and I'm gonna get my will and there it is and then if I want to do my wife's well I can go back to this same interview and let's say she made all the same elections as me I who's the testator client - and I can go to the end of interview and hit go and I'm gonna have her will and it's gonna flip everything wife of Jody Henley blah blah blah my family I'm married to Baron instead of I'm married to Jody here are my kids blah blah blah and the thing is done save print and now I can flow those answers into my power of attorney my advance directives and I can knock out a whole set of very sophisticated documents in about ten minutes so and again it's your language and you would just save these documents individually now I wanted to show you another example so another another of the leading document automation tools just to show you how a web-based thing would would work is contract Express so again similar approach right I've got an interview it's I'm doing another revocable trust here I click on you know trustees parties and it's just gonna advance me through you can see how the questions are presented substitute trustees special business trustees trustee options same kind of thing each question is there because it controls language and I can see my whole interview here and Hot Docs online looks very similar to this as well so after I answer all the questions and I get to the last question and I hit save and close then it's gonna say okay let me generate your document for ya here's the Baron K Henley revocable trust and when I click on it it'll ask me where I want to save it and I'll just save it on to my desktop and now I'll click down here and I'll open up the custom revocable trust I just generated based on how I answered the questions in a browser so this is a complete this is formatted completely differently than the last one different revocable trust but I like in this one this particular one works with they has jurisdictional changes between Pennsylvania Connecticut New York and a bunch of Florida California there's a whole bunch of states that one of the first questions in the interview my price get past it too fast for you to notice was what's the state of governing law and when I picked that I automatically get all kinds of different nuanced language based on that jurisdictions rules so anyway you can you can clearly get the idea as to the benefit proposition there let me get back to my slide deck real quick so it works with word and there aren't any left that work with WordPerfect the desktop version of hot Docs works with WordPerfect but none of the other ones do anymore so if you're using WordPerfect you're gonna have to go to a web-based thing and generate it's still going to generate Word documents but obviously you could open those more perfect you use your language you answer questions that you create with the software and then the software does the heavy lifting that's basically the process marry yes we did have a question about the answer sheet the question is where does the answer sheet actually reside and is it searchable it's a yeah that's good question the the answer file is an XML file which you would store like a word file or anything else they they can be searched and they can actually be imported into other things because XML is an open standard stands for extensible markup language so and I think I believe both hot Docs and contract Express use XML answer files the same concept they can use them you can use them over and over again so you can also pull from databases and depending on the program and I've got a slide on that just a second you can push back into the program some case management programs will allow you to populate fields within the database from the assembly process so but the key things are you can reuse your answers you can connect the databases you can pull from databases for sure and a lot of case management programs have built-in links to for example action step is an online case management program that has built in hot Docs which you can just elect to include for an additional x dollars per month I don't know what it is but there's some little upcharge they give you and then you get hot Doc's web-based hot Doc's built in and you can pull from every field in the database and generate all the documents you want a document assembly system is an really amazing teaching tool so you've got you know this is where you know lawyers will have a common problem I needed I hired a new associate I got to teach them or I want to I want to sell my practice or I want to you know I want to expand my department well you got to convey what's in your head and a lot of times there's no way there's there's nothing where all that's been written down and codified and this is something that you can walk people through I didn't spend much time on it but you can actually have help screens for each one of the screens you saw in a doc and assembly system to explain what I should be thinking about when I make a choice with this three option multiple choice question I can give them all kinds of sample language I can even give them hyperlinks to take him to statutes in case law if I want on the web so it is a tremendous teaching tool and way to convey what you know to other people in your firm and ultimately you can make changes to the system because you own it and and you don't have to a lot of these subscription ones they say yeah you can you can customize it but it's really painful to do so or you many of them you just simply can't most are going to the web which of course gives you the ability to assemble documents from any device connected to the Internet so you could be on an iPad you can even do it on your phone if you wanted to but it becomes operating system agnostic at that point the big players are here so I showed you hot Docs and contract Express the form tool and Express Docs and the form tools product is called dock Sarah is what most people use or Docs rowdy B so you may have heard of that but they have a variety of tools the form tool has various levels of document automation software you can check it out on their website but the hot Doc's kind of invented the market 30-something years ago and you know there's a lot of competitors now because this is game-changing technology as you can imagine you know why yes we do have one hot box question and that was can we still get hot dogs desktop program without subscribing to web-based yes so yeah well you can still get hot docs desktop but you can't get it without subscribing so the new owners of hot Doc's decided that even on the desktop software you're gonna have to pay X dollars per month in order to get the software I wish I could tell you exactly what that number is per month but I can't because it really depends on what you negotiate with them on how long of a time period you sign up for we've had people get from as low as $35 a month up to $70 a month and I you know and I've complained about this to them it would be nice to know what the pricing is and they've assured me that they're gonna change that up and make it more transparent but to this point it's it hasn't become that anyway you can still get the desktop software and but you are going to have to pay monthly for it even though it assembles documents on your computer and not in the web and I should point out that if you decided to go to the web version you pay I believe it's 350 per month flat fee to get the web assembly option but your templates that you build on Hot Docs desktop will move over with no modification very likely into the web version so if you decide you want to go that route and pay the extra 350 s that's not per user that's per firm the 350 per firm then you would be able to assemble those same templates on their web version and the new desktop replacement is called hot Doc's author which is actually pretty cool and has some really cool development tools that I am actually very excited to start using but hot Doc's advanced unfortunately at this point doesn't handle answer files the way I just showed you the desktop version does so we are waiting for version 2.0 when they get that fixed so that you know we and our clients would be able to use the web version the same way they use the desktop version anyway so templates this is capturing your intellectual capital into a reusable form I would argue one of the most important objectives of any law office you know don't recreate the wheel use what you've already built and and share it and and and create something that you can come back to and improve over time and that's what document automation systems allow you to do if you just do word processor stuff that we talked about initially super inexpensive easy to do and you know the best bang for your technology dollar frankly is to learn how to use stuff you already own like Microsoft Word which I find most people have no idea how to control and don't understand what's going on behind the curtain and can't get it to do what they want all the time and waste all kinds of non billable time wrestling with it that is avoidable if you come up with templates then all those margins for air we previously discussed they are largely eliminated so that's a major step forward if you think about what's causing you stress in your life as a lawyer isn't when someone's yelling at you because you owe them something isn't it often a document they owe you yeah for most people it is so you could do that faster better you're actually gonna be happier and I know most people don't think about software as having the ability to give someone a little bit of happiness but it actually can do that if you can keep up a lot of the transactional stuff now has gone to flat fee and as a result you know practitioners are feeling pressure to reduce the amount of time we're not rewarded for that anymore in a highly competitive legal market slow lawyers are penalized not rewarded and there's a there's too much competition out there and there's too much information out there thanks to the internet so people are researching and they're they're finding low-cost competitors you can imagine if I could do all this stuff faster this is the major bottleneck and almost every law office is the drafting process so if I can improve that it raises the bar for everybody sharing what you know with other people this is a place to convey that to deposit that information and then convey it to others there's a whole generation of lawyers which I'm sure everyone in this webinar is aware of who didn't grow up with this stuff and they feel like they've got to rely on a support staff person in order to get documents the final mile and as you saw that's not required if you have if you have a document automation system built a person who is a terrible typist and knows nothing about the word processor can still generate perfect documents you could to finger type in the answers to the questions or even use like Dragon NaturallySpeaking and speak the answers which it will type for you and that does work we have done that before so you could wean yourself of being reliant upon other people if you are right now and ultimately you can crank out more work without adding more people and obviously the number one cost of every law office in the world is payroll your new employees would ramp up faster and if your templates are built correctly then the formatting just works and you don't have to understand like how that was put together in the first place it's just refreshing to use a document that when you make changes to it it does what you would expect it to do in the perfect world and that's some crazy thing that you have to figure out to fix so the case for automation you own it you don't have to learn this new system you don't have to swallow somebody else's language there's going to be maybe a software cost on a recurring basis but it's not going to be nearly as expensive as a whole subscription system is these are real examples but I just want to give you a couple to think about so a flat fee $2000 for this is a real firm this is maybe 10 years ago now took him 10 hours to complete a set of documents they had seven lawyers and one support staff person in their firm and so the lawyers were doing all the work themselves and so the pre automation effective hourly rate was only $200 an hour and after automation they compressed the ten hours down to 1.5 hours they went to a flat fee of $2,000 previously that's they would base it basically on hours but you know they they stuck to that number no matter what so it was really a flat fee anyway it's not unusual for a firm to be generating you know 1333 dollars an hour if they can go to a flat fee and they can just do it much much faster and and more accurately than they did before even something where you you're saving only a couple of minutes over and over every day can also yield huge results right so in this case standard correspondence they can make on administrative time twenty seven hundred dollars an hour and that is perfectly fine so long as it's in your operating or in your engagement agreement and that's another so don't just think about this like oh I could save eight hours and this thing I do once a week it could applies everywhere if you could if you can save five minutes several times a day you're gonna have a major improvement and every little thing helps so we're already out of time I have four examples and reasons why you should do this but I think basically it comes down to the I don't think this is optional anymore if you're if your job is to crank out complicated sophisticated documents this has to be on your radar and every other professional service industry has had to adopt the technology that exists to allow them to do their jobs more efficiently and document automation software is that tool for lawyers now the precursor to doing any of it is creating templates in the first place and pulling your content together now you could outsource that to somebody else but if you can do it yourself in the first place even if you outsource the automation to somebody else you're gonna significantly reduce your costs and the time necessary to create complete the project because you pulled together the content in the first place and even if you only ever pull together the content into gold standard templates as we talked about earlier then you've still made a significant step forward compared to where you were previously if you're recycling old documents so I'll end it there since we're gonna try to limit this to 30 minutes I just wanted to let you know we have the affinity hot Doc's Academy August 1st and 2nd in Columbus that's on hot Doc's desktop and by the way if you decide to go to hot Doc's author and hot Doc's advance their web version everything you learned in hot docs Academy will transfer over to that because hot Doc's author is very very very very similar to hot Doc's desktop so if you're interested in learning how to do it yourself then check out the URL that's on your screen and thank you very much for attending great Thank You Baron we do have two questions if you don't mind I'm Brad Brad says he's been using he's used the forum tool Sun and he wondered what your experience was with that for document assembly the forum tool is solid it's just that the interview is static so as you know if you use the forum tool it's just a bunch of questions at the bottom of the screen if they're irrelevant you have to just know they're irrelevant and ignore them there's no way to like make them show up or not show up I don't like it the forum tool can do everything in terms of generating lists calculating things it can do very sophisticated things with the documents the price point is super attractive and I totally understand that it's no it's no easier to automate in than in any other of the programs because we know all of them but you know it does cost less upfront so you know there's if you're if you're using it already and you like what it's doing there are no reason not to continue using it and as long as the person using it understands what questions are relevant and which ones that require answers and which ones don't then it's a great tool excellent and now we have one last question from Karen who asks what is your favorite document assembly software and why well you know I'm I'm biased because I've been coding in hot Docs for over 22 years I mean I automated my own private practice even earlier than that twenty six seven years ago I automated my own private practice using that doc so I've been using that for a really long time so it's kind of like a second language to me but having learned all of the other tools I still think hot Doc's may be the most elegant in terms of gives me a set of tools that I can just use the code is easy to read in the template itself but you know right now it's kind of I'd like to use their web version but I can't because it's version 1.0 and they don't have the answer file thing all worked out yet and that's really important to me so hard question to answer I really like contract express I've been doing a lot with that and express Docs also definitely merits consideration super-powerful just not as well-known in North America as as the alternatives but also very competitively priced great Thank You Baron you certainly have made a really good case for a document assembly document management so thank you thank you great job and thanks to all of you for attending as Baron mentioned we have a special thank you for attending today we're happy to share with you all of you a special 20% discount for attending our affinity hot box Academy which happens August 1st and 2nd at our Columbus Ohio headquarters I'll be sending you that link too so you don't have to try to grab it off that screen and of course if you have any questions just ask and if you are intrigued by Barron's in to document automation today I hope you'll join us for our Q&A webinar for document automation with our producers of Doc's after-dark podcast Jeff shoenberger and John Federico that's coming up on April 13th but we have lots of webinars available just jump on to affinity consulting comm slash webinars and I hope you'll join us again soon watch for my follow-up email coming to you shortly with today's recording and please do share your feedback with us on the survey that follows thanks everyone